Authentic doesn't have to be one version

[00:00:00] You're listening to The Well-Led Podcast, where professionalism meets imperfection. I'm your host, Kate Johnson. Each month, alongside longer conversations and my own reflections, I make space for other voices, short contributions from multiple leaders, practitioners, and thinkers. I believe hearing a range of perspectives deepens how we understand what good leadership really looks like.

[00:00:27] This month, we're exploring authenticity. In this episode, you'll hear first from Kim Rohr, an earlier guest this year, with her thoughts following our conversation on how feedback provides support. Then, Jasmine Mosley-Beal shares her unique perspective on authenticity through the lens of her multi-layered experience as a Black woman.

[00:00:50] Kim and Jasmine both help us understand what authenticity looks like in practice, where it gets complicated, and why it matters. You'll hear each voice, one at a time. Different experiences, different perspectives, one shared focus. How easy or effortful is it for you to be authentic at work?

[00:01:20] It is very easy for me to be authentic at work, simply because I am tired of masking. Once I learned what masking was, and then I didn't have to do it. I don't really love the, like, bring your whole self to work because it's vague and doesn't have parameters for safety and things.

[00:01:42] But I also am at a point in my career where I feel like I just don't give as many Fs as I used to. I'm trying to keep it clean for this podcast. Thank you.

[00:02:02] But I had a manager once who was one of my favorite managers ever who told me that, with love, that he doesn't believe that I have a shame receptor in my brain. And what he meant by that was, you think you belong in any room you want to be in, and you have no fear or shame about entering the room and speaking your mind, no matter who is in the room with you.

[00:02:26] And you're not, like, embarrassed or trying to, like, be someone you're not, regardless of the level of seniority. And I was like, well, yeah, like, they're all just people. Like, why would I try to not be myself? Like, you don't want me there. Don't invite me to the room. So, yeah, I think it's a lot harder when you're younger in your career or earlier in your career.

[00:02:54] But, I don't know, the older I get, the less I care about being someone I'm not. Right. I think there's a lot of truth in that. And I was rewarded, I should say. I was rewarded, like, in the early phases of my modern career, like in the, let's call it 15-ish years ago. I was rewarded for being my authentic self.

[00:03:18] I was working with a CEO who genuinely wanted me and wanted my thoughts and my opinions and my work. And that taught me that it was valuable. And that if someone didn't think it was valuable, they were wrong. And I just stuck with that. Well, you've kind of addressed, you've addressed the last question that I have here around, like, what benefits have you experienced?

[00:03:46] But I'm curious, being you, being committed to coming in as your authentic self, what challenges has that presented for you? Yeah. I mean, I'm not for everyone. I will rub people the wrong way. I don't show enough deference to white male egos. Not even male all the time, frankly.

[00:04:11] Like, there are plenty of women that I've worked with who don't think that I show enough reverence to them. Not even because of their seniority, but just because of their position within the company. You know, like, I'm in finance or I'm in operations or I'm in whatever, and you're not. And so I'm better than you.

[00:04:34] And I just don't have it in me at this stage of my career or of my life to make myself smaller for someone else. And so that has meant that there have been opportunities that are not available to me. That has meant friction and tension. We talk about, like, what challenges has this presented.

[00:04:53] Like, even things as minor as, like, it's harder for me to build consensus or to create allyship within an organization if someone wants me to be someone I'm not. And I'm not going to change myself to make someone else feel better about themselves. Yeah.

[00:05:14] I think you're identifying an interesting thread that we could follow about not changing yourself, but perhaps tempering yourself in order to not, what's the right word? I don't want to say hurt someone else, but just being aware of maybe this isn't the time.

[00:05:36] You know, like, you know, because I've chosen that this is a clean podcast, you're respecting me and not swearing. Right. That's an example of you not changing yourself, but recognizing, hey, this isn't part of me I bring forward in the moment. I mean, I'm an adult. I'm a professional. I know that different circumstances require kind of different versions of yourself. Mm-hmm.

[00:06:02] But there are many versions of me that are all still authentically who I am. Yes. I'm never going to be the person that sits quietly in the corner and says yes to things I don't believe in. Yeah. Well, you already told us you're a theater major. Yeah, that's true. And I'm a dramaturg. We're nosy, and we have a lot of opinions, and people don't usually know that we exist. So I've got a chip on our shoulder.

[00:06:29] But I mean, I truthfully, like, I have been in rooms where, and I'm just thinking of some specific examples that I cannot name out loud, but times when I've been in rooms and I know, like, in this room at this table is not the time for me to show up. I need to observe right now. Mm-hmm. But as soon as this call is over, I need to have a real conversation with the people in the room. Mm-hmm.

[00:06:54] And whether it's because there's one person at the table who shouldn't witness mom and dad fighting like that. Or there's someone who will use that and manipulate it, and I don't trust them to experience what I'm about to unleash. You know, there's lots of different reasons why you might temper how you show up.

[00:07:17] But yeah, like, I have been on stages that are, like, super buttoned up and professional, and I can put that version of me on when I need to. And I've been on stages where it's, like, all bets are off. Unleash your sailor-iest sailor mouth. And that's also authentic. Like, authentic doesn't have to be one version. You can be multifaceted and still be authentic.

[00:07:44] Um, but I'm not going to show up and pretend that I support something that I don't support or stand behind something that I don't. Mm-hmm. Or just go into a room and be a yes man. Like, this is not going to happen. Yeah, it's the what behaviors are the, how do I translate in this circumstance? Right. And again, it goes back to storytelling. It does.

[00:08:10] Who am I telling this story to, and what do they need to know to be a part of it? Exactly. This is Jasmine Mosley-Beal for the Well-Led Podcast.

[00:08:32] For me, being authentic at work had so many layers, and it was not easy at all when we think about our authentic selves at work and how we present ourselves.

[00:08:45] There's so many layers because, for me, it's one, the layer of being a black woman, a dark-skinned black woman in predominantly white corporate spaces, and already having that stigma on you and being placed in a box of where you're only support, even when you're in situations where you're leading. Also, being a very feminine leader.

[00:09:08] So, if you have seen me, I'm all about the high heels, the big hair, the skirts, and all of the things. And that's another layer I think about. Also, being a multi-hyphenated talent throughout my career has presented challenges. It's not easy at all when you're worried that the internal culture and systems within a workplace are already not built for you.

[00:09:33] When you present your authentic self, you're worried about even being encased into a glass-like chamber. I'm not even going to say the ceiling. It's a whole chamber professionally where you worry about whether you'll be promoted or even looked at in a certain way. When I think about the challenges this has presented, there's a story that comes into mind in my own career.

[00:09:59] I remember when I was in my mid-20s, I had some years into HR and in my career and started making waves blogging. I was featured in sites like Beautylish. Companies were sending products for me to review. And I even made some ad money. This was a professional achievement that I was so proud of. I was proud to be able to combine my passion of beauty, work, and lifestyle to what I do in my every day.

[00:10:29] And I started at a new company doing HR. And I remember that first day. Day one, the tension was so thick. I know as a kid who was bullied growing up, I know when people don't like me and when things are off. I was just like, okay, maybe it's nothing. And days went on and a woman entered my office and she came from another department. She goes to me and says, I really want to talk to you about something.

[00:10:58] And I asked my pastor about it. I want to approach you. And I was just tilting my head like, what is happening? What's going on? Then she continued to say, people have a lot of judgments about you at this organization. And from what I know is that you have some type of blog and people have so much to say around the office. So I tilted my head again and I'm like, well, that's public information. It's on my LinkedIn.

[00:11:24] I'm not ashamed of anything that I have written or made a video about. So what is the problem? Throughout that time and even thinking about that day, I said, I am not going to succeed here. I'm already set up for failure because of how I'm being perceived and how that continued to go throughout this entire organization. And my time there was hell. One of the worst places I worked at in my career.

[00:11:54] And my boss and some of the members of the team were very short with me. I would have questions. And it was like one of those things where you get the answer. Oh, you should know this already. I was treated very unkindly. And it was tough working in an environment like that. When you think about someone who has always wanted to excel, it's like a rubber band that keeps getting pulled and all of a sudden it snaps.

[00:12:20] And I had my first of many panic attacks while I was working at this organization. And I could not focus. As you all know, especially HR leaders, where if people cannot focus and they're in a place they can't thrive, performance is not going to happen. So even small mistakes, it was just blown up to where it's like, oh my gosh, this is terrible. When in fact, it wasn't necessarily the biggest deal, but it was magnified. So no matter what I did, it was a problem.

[00:12:50] And one day my boss, whose office was slightly catty-cornered to mine, she was bringing in people for appointments. And I happened to see somebody that I knew come into the office. So during this day, I was just doing some weekly checks. And I checked the ATS within the organization and saw that my position was open. So I looked over and I was like, okay, I see how this is going to go.

[00:13:18] So I sent an internal chat over to my boss to speak with her. And I told her I knew everything that was going on and what is the plan. And her response was that with her being on the leadership team and the rest of the leadership need to keep their options open. And after conversations about performance, you know, there's things we have to think about. And she goes, is there anything else you want to say or ask?

[00:13:45] And I said, well, when you're ready to let me go, let me go. After I left that office, I slowly started cleaning up my office and packing up my things because I knew it was going to happen. And a couple weeks later, I was told that I wasn't a right fit for the organization and was ultimately terminated. So I took my little purse and just walked straight out the door and I said, okay, bye. But there is a flip side to this.

[00:14:11] So with that experience, of course, like I felt so defeated, so hurt, especially being in a place where I was publicly ridiculed and not treated very well. But when I think about the benefits of being your authentic self is life changing. I kid you not, years later after that experience I had, I was at an amazing company where I was leading talent and performance. It's by far one of my favorite jobs in my career.

[00:14:40] And one day, one of the sales executives had came over to my office and she's like, hey, how are you doing? And then she goes to say, I saw the other night that you have a blog and do some videos. And my stomach just sank because I automatically thought about the experience I had at this former company years prior. And, you know, I sat with my whole chest. Yes, I do.

[00:15:07] And this executive said, it is the coolest thing I have seen. You are incredibly talented and creative and you're really brave for putting yourself out there like that. Could I ask you a question about makeup? And we start having this whole conversation about the makeup and, you know, my working life and also talked about video editing.

[00:15:29] But with me showing up authentically, I had so many opportunities to within my career to travel the world and collaborate on big projects. I won an award in talent and learning because I was able to use some of those skills from my blogging, but also attach it to learning development and how people learn and things that will get people motivated.

[00:15:55] And I had something that stood out and that was unique to me and untouchable. This is the lesson here. You can be at one place and people ridicule you, but you also can be at another place where people admire and celebrate you. And I think about this a lot and it's okay to be misunderstood. Everyone is not meant to understand you, especially when they stay in their own bubble and they're afraid to branch out. So they want to take that out on someone else.

[00:16:24] Don't ever hide or dim your light. Let those people say what they want because that's not going to stop you from achieving your dreams or going towards your destiny. So as Viola Davis says, one of my favorite people, the privilege of a lifetime is being who you are. And I'm happy that I get to live that now. I get to do that within my own consultancy with the big old bright pink V and people see them. They're like, what is this about?

[00:16:53] And they see who I am through LinkedIn and everything and showing that, yeah, you're walking the talk and you're being authentic. And you mean what you say when you're a change agent. You've been listening to other voices on the WellEd podcast. I'm grateful to each contributor who shared their perspective and personal stories in this episode and helped expand our understanding of authenticity.

[00:17:19] These reflections remind us that leadership is shaped not by a single voice, but by many across roles, experiences and contexts. If this episode was useful, you can support the show by following or subscribing on your preferred podcast platform or by sharing it with someone who's navigating similar questions. The latest companion toolkit is available. Check the show notes for a link to request your free copy.

[00:17:50] We'll be back next Tuesday for a deeper conversation with Melissa Norcross. For updates on future episodes and resources from 123 limited, you can join the newsletter at any time. Thanks for listening.