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[00:00:00] Welcome back, folks. This is another episode. It's about payroll. Oh my gosh. Up to episode 212. Who would have thunk it? Who would have thunk it? Right? We would have thunk it. What's up, Walt? How you doing, sir? We thunk it. You know what? No, we didn't. We did it in the beginning. That's all I was saying. Right? And we were like, oh, we're going to run out of payroll stuff to talk about. Shame on us. After a while, we hit our stride. Yeah. After a while, we were like, no, this is never going to end.
[00:00:28] The payroll is always changing. There's always something to talk about. Yes, man. For sure, man. And it's so, I feel like we're in so exciting place right now. So I'm uncomfortable. No, you're not, man. Look, I'm excited. I'm looking forward to a lot of the great things that we have on tap for ourselves and things to come. It's great to be in the weeds with this, right? Because it's not, it doesn't seem like work. It seems like, you know, fun stuff to do. You know what I'm
[00:00:57] saying? So it's just a joy. Yeah. We've got to make it that. Yeah. You got to, yeah. You got to make it. Yeah. When you, when you enjoy, when you enjoy what you do is not work. Right. Yes, exactly. So I'm good, man. How about yourself? Um, great. Yeah, I'm great, man. Thank you. Good, man. I appreciate it. Well, we, I'm excited for today's topic. No guests today. We're going to talk a little bit about the history of Peyton. I think a couple episodes back, we were like,
[00:01:25] it kind of hit us to talk about it. And I was like, well, let's do that. Um, Ian Giles, if he ever publishes his book is working on the world history of payroll, which is so far amazing. Yep. Um, I need to keep bothering him about it. And, um, but yeah, so got curious. So let's, uh, let's see. So the question that is going to start us off is this, what part of payroll do you think
[00:01:52] has changed the least over the last hundred years? What do I think has changed the least? The least. Over the last. The least. Right. Um, I suffer. Well, the least is the fact that we have to pay people. Right? There you go. The fact that we have to pay people. There you go. That's it. You know, like, people need to get paid. To your point, it still needs to be on time and accurate.
[00:02:23] Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yep. That does not change. Exactly. So thought us off on this. You're going to take us back through some things that, uh, in little pieces of overtime. Yeah. Yeah. So look, man, like, so which, I guess in your mind, which payroll law has had the biggest impact of our
[00:02:49] profession? Oh, I think that's FNSA. Okay. Okay. For sure. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's, it's set the minimum wage standard. Right? All those. Um, yep. Yep. Salary hourly, all, all those different things. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Uh, I think also it covers
[00:03:17] child labor laws. Yep. Yeah. And also that's huge. Unless you work for your parents, you can't abuse the child with labor. Yep. Yep. Uh, uh, what else? Yeah, man. So look, I guess in terms of, let me ask you this question then. Like if you could travel back in time and work in any payroll decade, which would you choose and why?
[00:03:46] Hey, I see if I, let me pay your own decade. I would still, I would jump to now. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, I would, I would, I would want to start now in the, yeah, in the digital era, like I, you know, you and I both know about paychecks and like actually printing checks and having to give them out.
[00:04:10] Wooden time clocks. And, you know, I never seen no wooden time clocks, but yes, we had a guest that told us about wooden time clocks and that was crazy. Yeah. Um, um, um, I did see my mom's like, I would go to work for my mom sometimes, not go to, but be there for some reason and see like those punch cards. You see it on TV as well. Um, that's, that's, that's old school. And the fact that some places still have those is crazy.
[00:04:40] Any? Yup. Yup. Yup. It's, it is. Um, what else? So do you feel like overtime compliance is more confusing today than it was like decades ago? I don't even know what it was decades ago. Um, I wonder what, and I think again, that's also SLSA,
[00:05:08] which established in 1938. So pre 1938, there wasn't, there probably wasn't even know such thing as overtime. Okay. Um, I think it's just, it's probably just as confusing it as it, as it is now, as it was then. Okay. Because now with the OB three, it's forcing payroll professionals to really make sure they understand
[00:05:37] overtime and you have to overstand, overstand, you can overstand it too. You have to overstand, um, uh, regular rate of pay, which plays into it. So it's really forcing us to re like re-examine and revisit what overtime even meant and how it means and how it's played out in visually calculations,
[00:06:04] all that to stay in compliance. It, again, the OB three is just re reinforcing the FLSA and some parts of it. So probably just as confused now as they were when they first implemented it. Yeah. It's always changing. It's always changing, right? Like, so there's always going to be questions, always things to ask. So like, yeah, it's probably more confusing now. Like you said, just as confusing, you know, when the first, if not.
[00:06:31] Yep. So before I pass it back to you for the questions, um, do you think that payroll professionals get enough compliance training? Probably not. No, no is. Oh, excuse me. Hold on for something.
[00:06:58] Yeah. I don't, I don't, I have to agree with you because I think a lot of the stuff I've learned, I had to learn through trial and error and crucible of the fire, you know, you know, whatever. Like, so yeah, it's, yeah. And it's, it's very interesting because I just, um, someone just asked me, I was talking about the CPT program. I was talking to Troy Markison, the payroll nerd.
[00:07:28] And we were talking about, again, just, we need new blood and payroll, um, exciting different initiatives that we're going to help each other out with, with, uh, getting new blood into the workforce and not only that, but into payroll, right? Not just the workforce, but specifically into payroll. So on that line, I was talking to a group of business owners yesterday and I was just
[00:07:54] like, Hey, you know, um, looking for, um, folks that are looking to pivot career change, new grads, la la la. Here's the program, CPT. We get them in entry level, teach you inside, getting them excited. And someone reached out right after the meeting. He was like, Hey, you know, my daughter just graduated, got a BA, you know, and kind of like, doesn't know, right. Doesn't know where to go with it. And which often happens, you get a four year degree. And now you're like, all right, well now what?
[00:08:23] Because you forgot to focus on what you were going to do after and, or you, or they did. And maybe the job market is not working out the way they thought. So she saw the CPT program. She's like, wow, this looks good. You know, asking questions. And she's like, is this necessary to get a job in payroll? And I said, no, it's not. But because there aren't any set requirements,
[00:08:46] like accounting, legal, medical, pre-need, right? If you do something in these other fields, there are specific requirements that you have to get into or take and become certain to get into payroll, into that occupation. There isn't really that in payroll. So I was like, you know, a lot of companies just make things up and create their own standards. And that doesn't always work
[00:09:12] out. I said, with her degree, if she got certified with the CPT, it would make her an outstanding candidate. And that's the game changer for it. Right. And now what we're talking about, what we're working on is getting the graduates in front of companies that are looking for new payroll talent. Yes, bro. That's so that is going to be a game changer for us and the program. So
[00:09:42] to your, to, you know, I forgot what the question was, but yeah, it was, uh, you gave, they were payroll pros get enough compliance training. And I was saying, and I was saying, like, I agree with you. I've had to learn a lot on the job instead of like getting like necessarily trained on certain things. Um, I've gotten some training, but like the basics, like they basically say, Hey, point you in the right direction. Hey, go to FLSA and find out, you know, go to the
[00:10:10] state site and find out or whatever. So that exactly right. And, and we, we are, we need to change that. Right. We need to change that. We need to be able to set a standard and a path and an education path. Um, that could be free because there is one right there. There's a free education
[00:10:34] path. It takes a little bit more work and intention, but there is a free one, or you can follow the established, you know, education paths that are out there. Not many, but come to career learning. We got an alternative out there for payroll learning. Um, and, and, and I, and I have a lot of thoughts around this, what I wanted to share real quick though, before we move on is, um, in the, uh,
[00:11:02] see, I found like a little snippet about early days of payroll says early America payroll was relatively informal. Many people worked on farms, family businesses, independent trades, people, or apprentices. Compensation might include cash, food, housing, land supplies, or share of whatever the business produced. An employee might be paid by the day, by the task, or by the amount of work
[00:11:26] completed. As the country became more industrialized or in the 1800s, factories, mines, railroads, and large businesses began employing hundreds and eventually thousands of workers. That growth created the challenge. And it's probably the birth of the modern day payroll because now you needed to pay them accurately hours, you know, it's began, it started with the, uh, it birthed the ledgers and
[00:11:54] calculations and things like that. So this little interesting tidbit about the early days of it all. Um, all right. Some questions. So technology then versus now, right? How do you think technology has made payroll easier or different? So let me rephrase, has technology made payroll easier or different?
[00:12:17] I think it's, I don't necessarily know that it's easier. I think it's become more efficient in a way, but as we've gotten more technology, like as that has improved, there's more, there's more complex complexities that I've come in. Right. And so I think that payroll has always been complex and it depends on the, the, the, the environment you're in too. Right. Like you can be at a place that
[00:12:45] doesn't have all the different departments and layers and all these different nuances that you have to necessarily worry about at other places. And it could just be a lot of different moving parts, right? There's so many things that make up payroll and go into it. So I don't necessarily think it's become easier. I just, I think I'm going to the latter part and that it's just different now. How about you? Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, to that end, I'll share some, a little bit of tidbit.
[00:13:15] So for much of the 20th century, payroll remained heavily dependent on paper. Employees completed paper forms, supervisors approved paper time cards, payroll clerks used adding machines and printed tax tables. Checks were printed, signed, sorted and distributed. Employees often received a physical paycheck with a detachable pay stuff. We know those days. Um, yeah, my son, my son said
[00:13:44] the other day, oh yeah, back in the 1900s. And I was like, 1900, 1995 or something. Like what in the hell? But yeah, uh, computers became more widely available during the second half of the 20th century. Payroll processing began moving into computerized systems, ADP being one of the first like head, you know, pioneers in that space because their original acronym stands for automated data processing.
[00:14:14] Now they changed it to something, something people. Yeah. Um, right. So larger employers were among the first to use mainframe computers to calculate payroll over time, payroll service providers and software companies made automated payroll processing available to smaller businesses. Computerization improved speed, consistency and reporting, but it also introduced new risks. And that's where we're at now still with it. A system could process thousands of payments quickly, but
[00:14:43] it could also process thousands of errors quickly. Automation did not eliminate the need for payroll professionals. Much like today, AI is not going to eliminate the need for payroll professionals. It is going to change to just see your point. It's not making it easier. It's gonna make it different. Yeah. So yeah. Um, let me see. What else I've got. I want to ask you here.
[00:15:11] What's one piece of payroll technology you couldn't live without? Oh, interesting. Um, I think because I used to have to, um, and I didn't necessarily know this technology, but I think that I was going to say direct deposit, but it's not really technology in a sense.
[00:15:40] No, I said technology, but I'm gonna say like reporting tools. Like, I think that. Oh, that you can live without. Yeah. Yeah. Cause if you know that good ones. Yeah. If you didn't have that, think about the manual work you would have to do and like all the different things. Like, like try to imagine having to eat a data in for thousands of thousands of employees.
[00:16:06] If there was no Excel, if there was no, you know, reporting tools and stuff like that, you just had to like, like key everything into word. It'd be much different. Yeah. You know what I was like? Yeah. No, yeah. Nobody would need reporting. Oh, well, yeah. Let's just, oh, let's just see what happens. What about you? Um, oh, one payroll. I couldn't live without. Yeah. Excel.
[00:16:29] There you go. Excel. You know, um, what's the most overrated payroll technology? Overrated? Overrated payroll technology. I might get in trouble when I say this. Um, What? In a sense, this might be controvert. Yeah. Cut it out. Yeah.
[00:16:59] I overrated. No, I think you're right at this moment. It's overrated for payroll. Um, because we're now just years later, and they has been around for a long time, but the AI in the sense that we know it now has not really impacted payroll in a big way yet. It's starting it right. Remember last episode,
[00:17:25] I reported on that company that is unleashing it in its tax compliance, um, calculations. So that is a major push forward. So now I believe we're going to start to see that needle move a bit. Um, but yeah, up until right now, it absolutely overrated. Oh, we have a, all of the vendors. We have AI really, let me see. Oh, it's a great chat bot. It finds. Oh, okay. That's what I thought.
[00:17:53] Um, this is a good one. What's one technology you wish existed, but doesn't. Oh, okay. So I would say if I could dream up the perfect technology for payroll, I would say that in my head, I would want a technology that could, um, basically,
[00:18:22] basically like send out notification, explain employee paychecks, uh, basically do all, all of, of that. Um, look, I know there's, there's, there's technology that can do that and piecemeal, but I, I would want it to be such a like sophisticated, like, sophisticated, like technology
[00:18:46] that, you know, it could easily explain solar's paycheck to them. Um, answer questions. Um, you know, like automatically, like, you know, uh, like aside, you can like the voice command thing you were talking about, like, like you can speak to it and it, it will actually like do it and like set up a batch, like go, Hey, I need to pay person, this employee with employee number, blah, blah,
[00:19:15] blah, blah, blah, blah. Pay them this amount bonus and don't take any deductions except for 401k and tax at this tax rate. Like just speaking to it like that and like it do it for you. I think, I guess that, that would kind of be the technology I would want. Yeah. I like it. I like it. Um, and before we move away from the technology part, uh, by the late
[00:19:43] 1990s and early two thousands, internet based payroll systems began changing the profession. Again, employees gain access to self-service portals where they could view payments, update personal information and manage tax elections. Timekeeping systems became connected to payroll systems. No more wooden clocks. Um, human resource benefits, scheduling, accounting and payroll
[00:20:07] platforms became increasingly integrated today. Many employees can receive a notification on their phone. The moment their pay is deposited, they can view earnings taxes, deductions, PTO year to day, without speaking to anyone in payroll. Some workers can access earned wages before their regular payday. Uh, payroll teams can support employees working in multiple states, countries
[00:20:33] from one centralized platform. Uh, artificial intelligence and automation can identify unusual payments, missing information, or changes that may need review. But despite all the technology, the purpose of payroll has remained remarkably consistent. Payroll must be accurately documented, calculated, calculated, uh, uh, the law applied, uh, employee information protected and the payment
[00:21:02] delivered. So how we kind of started it off, right? What doesn't change. So, and look, I wanted to speak to the, I saw that your notes in there about World War II and federal income tax. Right. So I want to talk on that before I go to the what if segment here. Like, so, and how that was a major change, right? So before the 1940s, you know, federal income taxes, uh, used to apply to a smaller
[00:21:25] portion of the population. Um, but the financial demands of the war, like expanded, uh, to the, that basically it required that more Americans, um, pay income taxes. So the Revenue Act of 1942 increased the reach of federal income tax and introduced the victory tax. Then in 1943, the federal government
[00:21:47] established a broader pay as you earn withholding system. Uh, because before workers waited until the end of the year to pay their entire, entire facts, uh, entire, uh, federal income tax bill. Uh, and then, so then instead after this act was passed, employers began withholding the tax from each paycheck. So that was like a monumental shift. So essentially employers became tax collectors,
[00:22:14] right? Back then. So could you imagine that? Like, I know that some people still do that. Like, so it kind of seems like back then everybody kind of was like in a sense 1099 and kind of perking a 1099 kind of situation where you were responsible for paying your own taxes at the end of the year versus having someone take it out and like an employer take it out, withhold it and send the
[00:22:40] payments over to the government. So just thought I would share that note. Wow. Yeah. And so go wise, it's interesting to see how things have changed through the years and it's crazy. Yeah. Okay. All right. So what if, what if direct deposit, what if direct deposit disappear tomorrow?
[00:23:02] Yeah. The system would collapse. Yeah, I think so. It'd be that it would cause serious. So no. So, okay. Let me ask, let me ask a different question there. Yeah. Yeah. Seriously. What if we went away from the standard direct deposit as we know it and went more to like,
[00:23:27] and, um, um, token base or a cryptocurrency type of thing. It's crypto. You know what I'm saying? Like, like what, what would that, would you, uh, would you like that new world or? I think I, I personally would, I don't know if everybody would, because how I understand it, I think it would be a better, um, solution. Okay. That's just me. Um, I also think that
[00:23:55] employee data should also be like our personal information should be more of a, on the blockchain. We control. Cause the way I learned it once, as we were talking through crypto and payroll is if our information was on the blockchain, it would be one source, all them. And it would be like,
[00:24:19] imagine one document in the world that had our, or database if you know, sophisticated has our information. And we would control who had access to that one document database. And then, Hey, Hey, yep. I'm going to give you temporary access to my token blockchain data. And then you'll get out, you'll get what you need and get out. As opposed to, we have to keep entering our information in all
[00:24:48] these systems in all these places that creates the dark web and why our information is out on the dark web, as opposed to, it could be in one place that we can secure and monitor that security in one place and only give access as we deem necessary. I think that's the better solution. And yeah,
[00:25:12] I think moving the money over a blockchain and, or in that manner where it's not, uh, how can we say it's not fiat currency, but there's so much impact there that I don't even understand, you know, rates, currency rates, banking, that of that. Um, but yeah, that, yeah, yeah, that's my take on it.
[00:25:36] What if everyone was paid daily? We're trying to move into that, uh, they, you know, employees had it their way. We would move to that model. Now, our wage access is, is almost creating that scenario. Um, I think it would be fine if we could, if we had the sophistication technology, we run it.
[00:26:06] I feel like it would still need to be a day in a rear at least. I kind of feel like that as well, because I feel like the more important, the more important thing, instead of being paid daily is to get everybody or mostly everybody, because there's going to be people who there's going to be people who are going to do whatever they want to do, or just hard headed or whatever. And people are going to make mistakes. Right. And so like, I think I would
[00:26:30] rather see a place where employees are financial, have financial literacy, understand those things versus, oh yeah, it's not nice to get paid daily, but if you're not responsible with those funds, whether you're paid daily, bi-weekly, semi-monthly, monthly, don't matter. Like you're going to be bad with money either way. So I would like to see that instead.
[00:26:53] Yeah. Exactly right. I like that. No doubt. What if, um, what if their, what if taxes were eliminated? You can't, I think that's a pipe dream. I think that there needs to be something. Yeah. The system needs to be overhauled, but we, we have to have the infrastructure that
[00:27:19] everybody, you know, you have running water, you have a sewage system, right? You use bathrooms, you have electricity. Yeah. You know, we, to have those things, you have to pay a government or a governing body to help create the infrastructure. Yeah. You know, is the system broken? Yes, of course, absolutely. Yeah. Corrupt, broken,
[00:27:44] all kinds of things, but we need that. We need a, we know, you know, we need infrastructure and then we need a mechanism that the people who benefit from the infrastructure are helping to pay for it. Sir, I agree. So, you know, it should be overhauled. I don't think it goes away. But look, um, for the interest of time, plus I have a, uh, a hard stop at in a few minutes. Um,
[00:28:11] Oh yeah, no doubt. Let's wrap it up. Go to hot takes, go to hot takes. Whatever we jump down. Go to hot takes for me. But let's see. Payroll is more ATAR than finance. What do you think? Is that a hot take? Mm, I think I, I, I'm, I'm opposed to that. I think payroll is more finance than HR. Okay. Every payroll professional should know employment law. Yes. As best as, as much as
[00:28:41] possible. Yes. Weekly payroll is better than biweekly. Wait a minute. Is that contradicting myself? Because employment law versus finance? Maybe a little bit. Maybe. That's why it's hot take. You can't stay and dwell on it. You gotta, okay. You can do that after you're done. I think,
[00:29:01] I think, uh, I think I like a biweekly pay more than weekly or biweekly. Okay. Direct deposit should be mandatory. Yes. AI will improve payroll jobs. Yes. Eventually payroll certification should be required. No, I think continue payroll. I think, I think continued training to continue education should
[00:29:31] be a requirement that doesn't necessarily equal certifications. They will should report directly to the CEO. It depends. Or you should understand their pay stuff before calling payroll. In the ideal world. In the ideal world. Oh, good ending there. So yeah, that wraps it up, man. Thanks. Thanks for joining us today. Um, we got a little challenge here before
[00:30:01] Walt gives us the quote of the day. If you could, this is our, listen, so our audience and, um, all the folks listening or watching on, on, I was gonna say hot tube YouTube. Um, if you could eliminate one payroll headache forever, what would it be? And why? Let us know in the comments. We want to hear from you. Let us know. And, uh, yes. Yeah. We want to know. And look, and if, and if you, if you engage,
[00:30:25] engage, cause we, we, we need more engagement. If you engage, you're the first person to engage on LinkedIn or email us or get it to us. I will send you a free copy of our book. I like that. I like that. Right. A signed copy of our book. So end this out today. Sure. All right. Quote of the day by
[00:30:51] Brian Escobar paycheck is never just a payment. It's a promise kept a family supported and a life made a little more secure. That's why payroll matters. Thank you folks. We love you like, subscribe, share, tell a friend to tell a friend until the next time. Peace.
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