Unmuting Yourself: Finding the Courage to Be Seen and Lead Authentically

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Evolve Talent and HR Show. We are building the rooms where HR and talent leaders learn, connect, and evolve. I'm Anna Morgan, and this is the space where people-first leaders come for courageous conversations. Whether you're leading from the C-suite, emerging as a new voice, building community, or driving change within your organization, this show is for you. Every episode brings voices that are driving change in the HR and talent community. We're going to get into the strategies, conversations, and the strategies, conversations, and the strategies.

[00:00:30] We're going to get into the conversations and movements that matter. Because here's what we know. Every conversation matters. Every introduction, every shared experience, it creates momentum that extends far beyond the room. And that is the EVOLVE multiplier. When we collaborate, overcompete, when we connect with intention, the opportunities, the relationships, and the impact compound across our entire community. You've tuned into a podcast, but this is actually your connection to the entire EVOLVE ecosystem.

[00:01:00] New episodes come out weekly. Now it's your turn to evolve. Welcome. Good morning, good day, good evening. I'm Anna Morgan, host of the Evolve Talent and HR Show. And I am so excited to have one of my favorite career BFFs, a woman who has inspired me, and who is just a wonderful kindred spirit and great friend now. So Rachel Dreckenmiller, welcome.

[00:01:29] Awesome. Why don't you tell us a little bit about you, and then we'll get started. So I am a catalyst who unleashes what's possible in people. This is what I'm here to do. And at the core of what I do, I'm a keynote speaker and a singer-songwriter. Singer-songwriter. And a singer-songwriter. We'll talk about that. Yes, yes.

[00:01:48] And I, at the core of what I do, I've thought about this a lot recently, I've had to simplify it. I help people navigate self-doubt and disruption by doing the inner work first. That helps them find the clarity, confidence, and courage to show up and contribute. How it takes, basically, they say that those 10 years of putting in the sweat and tears to have the overnight success and how you truly evolve in your messaging and who you're serving.

[00:02:12] When you were saying that, I was thinking, yes, it builds spaces for people first leaders so that they can learn, connect, and elevate the world of work. Yeah. And kind of principle. Yeah. I'm getting there. You know, working on it.

[00:02:25] No, and it's also, it's like, I started to figure, I was like, what are the two things that I really talk about most often, right? And it's like disruption and doubt. And so some of it's an internal experience. They're both internal experiences that we have, that we have to figure out how to show up in the midst of those and how to still lead effectively and how to still connect effectively and how to show up more fully and be the contribution that only we can be. And I really hope, I feel like I help people. I know that I help people find that part of themselves.

[00:02:49] Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, I was preparing for this earlier this week and kind of reflecting back on how you've entered my life through the Outlier Project and some bold and audacious community members that we are blessed to be surrounded by. And you and I met in fall of 24. Is that right?

[00:03:10] Okay. And I knew of you. We were connected on LinkedIn, but we hadn't ever really had a ton of FaceTime. And so when I saw you, I was basically like fangirling. Oh my gosh, that's Rachel. And even though I'm an extrovert, I was so nervous and I was so pleasantly surprised with just how kind and embracing you were. And then your brilliance around singing and leadership knowledge.

[00:03:37] And that will lead me to my next question and stop talking about why I love you and how we met. But anyway, the message there is for people to put themselves in spaces. Maybe they don't think they belong. And I know I felt that way at that retreat and the multiplier and impact that has come from being present in that room and really trusting that community has been amazing and blessed me in so many ways.

[00:04:07] So you like I worked in corporate, you spent what 13 years and you were what they say high potential HR leader. And you talk about building that career and what you focused on, but how you weren't really truly being yourself and you were kind of hiding behind the HR people leader personality or work profile, if you will.

[00:04:33] So what did you see happening at that time? Encouraged you to take that step and now has given you this whole mission that you shared just a second ago. Well, I wouldn't say that I chose it like in terms of that transition or that evolution. Hopefully not in 2020. Burned out. So what happened was I was the director of well-being and employee engagement and I was helping our organization and our clients get recognized as best places to work and build cultures that supported people's well-being and them as a whole person.

[00:05:03] So I started doing that in 2007 and really loved it. I felt like it was a lot of fun, but I also felt like a lot of the time and I know HR leaders feel this way a lot that your ideas are falling on deaf ears. Like you can't be a prophet in your own village and endlessly frustrating. You can't be a prophet in your own village. And it's like somebody else can come in and say exactly what you have been saying until you're blue in the face. And then your executive is like, oh, that's such a brilliant idea. And you're like, I've been saying that for seven years.

[00:05:32] And I know it's like the tone in my voice evidently does not work with your ears. So I had been recognized as the number one health promotion professional in the country by a group called the Wellness Council of America. Thank you, Wellness Council of America. I had been on the map in a way that I had never been on the map before and it was like 10 years into my career. And then I had a national platform I never had before. And then with that national platform came a bunch of pressure that I put on myself.

[00:05:57] And sometimes depending on our role, it's like, oh, you're at a CHRO or you're in a position where there's a lot expected of you. And then you put even more on yourself. Like, oh, if I am this title, then I can't struggle. I can't ask for help. I have to have it together. I have to have all the answers. I have to have the best ideas. Because no one can know that I feel like I'm drowning. Perfectly perfect. I'm good. I'm solid. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. I like that. That gif. Oh, wait. Do you know what the acronym for fine is? Tell me.

[00:06:27] We won't use the cuss word. So I learned this like as I was going through my recovery journey. I just celebrated 15 years alcohol free. Yay. But they used to say when we would answer like, I'm fine. I'm being like, I really want to drink. You are kind of effed up in the head, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. We are not fine. We are way better than fine. And so what really started to shift things for me as I got to this point where I burned out, I bottomed out, I lost my voice for a period of time. I was teaching healthy cooking demonstrations.

[00:06:56] I had a food blog that I was running. I had transforming my own health in the midst of this in certain ways, but then also imploding my health in other ways. And I got to the point where I had to ask for help and I had to admit what was going on because I started to drop the ball at work and I wasn't responding to people and I wasn't very easy to work with because I was so afraid of being outed. And I was like, if people find out that I don't really have it together, that I didn't actually deserve this title. I bet so many people feel like that.

[00:07:24] And I know from coaching leaders in this space, I've heard that on many calls. For the audience that has that title is feeling the exact same way that you're describing. Is there anything that you would invite them to be aware of or to be curious about in service of taking action, of prioritizing themselves? Yeah, I mean, there's a few things that come to mind for me.

[00:07:49] One is recognizing that in the midst of when we end up in a situation like that where you're burned out, for instance, there's clearly been boundaries that have been violated that you have really as a form of self-betrayal. That's what I was in the midst of as a form of self-betrayal that I just wasn't willing to admit. And it's hard to acknowledge that, but that's what happens to a lot of us. We betray ourselves because we're so concerned with, is everybody else around me happy? I want to make sure everybody else is OK. I am the strong one. I am the one that has to hold it together.

[00:08:14] And if I fall apart in some way or I, God forbid, need help, what is everybody else going to do? But instead of asking for help, they stay muted. And that's what you talk a lot about, like people meeting themselves at work. So you're about to kind of describe, I would say, like, what did that look like more for you and for leaders of organizations? What would be signs their teams are feeling that way? Yeah, well, I mean, it's interesting because when you look at things like burnout, right,

[00:08:41] the World Health Organization, I think I want to say it was in 2018, 2019, came out with an actual definition of occupational burnout. And I was like, oh, check, check, check. I had that. And it's this part of it is you start kind of like dropping the ball and you're like, I'm not the kind of person that misses deadlines. I'm not the kind of person who, and you're feeling like you're a drop in efficiency. You notice there's an increased level of cynicism. I'm just like, we can, we've all felt that way. And then. I think I might have burned out at some point in my entrepreneurial journey.

[00:09:11] You're just tired and exhausted. You're exhausted. You're cynical. And you start dropping the ball. You're not sleeping. Yeah. And you're not efficient. What is wrong with me? And then what is wrong with me? And then we internalize it even more. And instead of showing ourselves some degree of self-compassion, we end up getting ourselves further down the path. So I think one of the things that's really helpful to ask is, what is my silence costing me?

[00:09:36] Oh, that's way better than what is the employees who are meeting themselves costing the organization? That was my next question. What is it costing me to silence myself right now? Because I've asked, I mean, at this point I've surveyed, gotten responses from about 4,500 working professionals over the past few years. And I've asked them. Amazing. I just shared this at the ATD annual conference. And there's three kind of buckets of the reasons why people mute themselves. One is internal, which is related to a lack of capability or self-worth. So I'm not good enough.

[00:10:05] I'm not enough in some way. And so I'm going to silence myself because I don't want to be exposed. Second reason is relational. Totally get that. I silence myself to preserve this level of connection in a relationship. I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want to be a bother. I don't want to be a burden to anybody. I need to make sure everyone else is okay. It's okay if I'm not. I silence myself to maintain connection, even if the connection is not actually strong. And then the third one is structural. And so what structural looks like is, you know what?

[00:10:32] It's learned helplessness when people have this lack of psychological safety. So I've spoken up before and I got punished or I got reprimanded. And so you know what? I've just learned. Damn if you do, damn if you don't. Safer to be quiet. Safer to just zip my lip. And so many organizations are missing out on the talents and contributions and innovation and growth of their people because people are silenced for one of or a combination of those three reasons. Heartbreaking.

[00:11:01] But I love the message that you're putting out in the world. Not only through your public speaking career, but now also as a singer and songwriter. I don't want to move on right away from that because it is a big issue that I think is contributing to a huge trust issue in the world of work. Obviously from the employees because they don't trust that they can be their whole selves.

[00:11:28] And it's because they're on this hamster wheel of what you just described from the very top leadership to early leadership is what we're seeing. Any other insights from your surveys? Because that's fascinating. So one is that it's really interesting when I ask people to share what the ways they're holding back, silencing or doubting themselves. They give me like mini paragraphs. I give them the same amount of space to respond to a question with something about yourself you're proud of, value or appreciate. And they write like one word.

[00:11:57] So they're like, here's my soul about how I'm holding all these things back. Something about yourself you're proud of. I'm kind. Okay. Why do we feel the need to like hide the parts of ourselves that are strong, that are contributing in some way and overly focus on our inadequacy? And that's part of the issue is that it's not genuinely that I can see. It's not a lack of capability for most people. It's a lack of confidence. There's a lack of self-trust. So the word confidence, the root of the word confidence is confidere.

[00:12:25] And that confidere in Latin means to trust completely. And so when you have self-confidence, you trust yourself completely, which means you're willing to speak up when you have something that you feel like is genuinely going to contribute something in some way. You're willing to speak up and acknowledge or call out when something isn't working or something is wrong or you have a concern because you trust yourself. I'm going to be okay. Like I'm going to survive if I do this. I know who I am at my core. And that's the thing is I help people. One of the things that helps people build a sense of confidence is activating what psychologists

[00:12:53] call self-concept clarity and self-concept clarity. It's having an accurate, grounded sense of who you are. And most people do not. Most people do not. Yeah, because, you know, it's like my reality is this. And then this is a story I'm telling myself about who I am. It's like I think it's analogous to we're looking in a mirror that's made of shattered glass and then there's a mirror over here that's solid and we're focusing on the reflection in the shattered glass and we're seeing a distorted image of ourselves or a funhouse mirror.

[00:13:22] It's a distorted view. Meanwhile, there are people that if we let them in, if we let people be mirrors for us, and I'm a really big advocate of that. Every keynote, I create experiences where people get to be mirrored by somebody else because we miss it. We don't see ourselves. I like to say we're blind to our own brilliance. We don't see ourselves clearly. And so we need to invite other people in who know us, friends, colleagues, coaches, mentors, family members to have our goodness reflected back to us.

[00:13:48] Yeah, I was just going to say, why don't we give our listeners a little homework or if they're feeling muted and a little prickly like a turtle in a briar patch without a shell as Brene Brown references that they could take some of these steps. It's from the University of Michigan. It's called the Reflected Best Self. And the way that it works is you reach out to a handful of people who know you well and you ask them. Can you tell me about a time you've seen me at my best? What did you see? Okay. They decide what your best is.

[00:14:17] What did you see? What strengths emerged? Okay. And you start to gather these. And now the cool thing with AI these days is you can actually use AI to consolidate and synthesize these things. So let's say you reach out to six to 10 different people. Is AI just also another mirror? I've used it that way. I mean, especially if you've fed it a lot of stuff about yourself. That's how my friend Judy and I have talked about it. It's like sometimes creepy, how much of an accurate. If you've given it a lot of information about yourself, it's like it can call you out on stuff and you're like, ooh.

[00:14:49] Nothing like arguing with Chad. All right, Claude. Thanks for calling me out. So you do that and then you gather all the responses you get from people. And then you write a paragraph that helps you see yourself through the eyes of others. You say, when I'm at my best eye. And then you fill in all the things that people sent back to you about how they see you when you're at your best. And then each morning you wake up and you read this paragraph aloud to yourself. When I'm at my best eye. Boom, boom, boom. I am this. I am this. I do this. I make people feel this way.

[00:15:17] And when you start with that focus, instead of because our negativity bias is really strong, we're going to overly focus on all the ways we're inadequate and not measuring up or feeling perceived incompetence. But when you shift your perspective, what you focus on expands. If you say like, look, we're going to focus on what we do really well so we get more of that. But you can begin to retrain and rewire your brain to focus more on those things. And then you'll start to likely attract the type of people that want that kind of person in their life. You'll start to attract the type of opportunities. I mean, I've had this happen this year.

[00:15:47] It's been really amazing. Hello. That's the evolved effect. I mean, that's how the ripple effect of, like we mentioned, putting ourselves in rooms that at that time I didn't feel I belonged. And again, shooting your shot, continuing on, learning from the lessons and failures and what we needed to learn, honestly. So I have an idea for our listeners. So will you repeat the instructions again?

[00:16:15] So I'm going to give out my email address and the first person to share either how that exercise was just in an email or wants to share their results and what they wrote. I will give them a free ticket to the Evolve IRL experience in April. How about that? And then pass it along to me. So I want to say, I like to see those things too. I love. Hey, I'm still working on trying to get you to come and speak and open for Evolve, which would be my dream.

[00:16:44] If I can make it happen in 27. I do have a couple bookings already for April of 27 for two HR conferences, actually. Oklahoma and Tri-State. Well, I would love to loop you into some of my favorites that kind of straddle HR and TA, which is also what I like to do because we should be in the same room. That's my strong opinion. Yes, we're both passionate about this. Yeah. Transform. I went to Unleash. I'm going to HR Tech, which is in October. And then Work Human Live.

[00:17:13] If you've not spoken there or applied, I had such a great time there. I've always wanted to go. I applied when I was in my corporate job, but I haven't applied since I left. So I'm like, I need to do that. All right. We'll side combo on that. I got some connections for you. So you just shared a wonderful exercise and anyone who emails me first, I will give them a free IRL or an on-demand ticket, which is going live on the 15th.

[00:17:41] Can you tell me about a time you've seen me at my best? That's the prompt. Can you tell me at a time that you've seen me at my best? How many people do they need to pull? You know, I'm like, the more the merrier. Because you just get more perspective and you get more reinforcement. Because part of it is we think, here's the catch. You'll start to get responses back from people. And there will be part of you that resists what they're saying. Because when people compliment us, we have a tendency to like stiff arm them. We're like, let me tell you why you're wrong. We do this. We're like, well, I'm not really, oh, I'm kind of. Stop diminishing yourself. We diminish and downplay.

[00:18:11] They're like, you look great. And I'm like, wait, I'm shiny. I don't know what's wrong. That's what we focus on, all the flaws. And so what will start to happen, if you're not used to asking for feedback like this, I mean, I unsolicited get feedback all day long for the nature of what I do. Every time I speak on stage, whether I ask for it or not, people are going to tell me what they thought of what I did. And I'm going to get hundreds of comments. It's just part of the work. And it's you have to have a really thick skin. It must have toughened you up. Like, I think about that. And I immediately go to John Wayne kind of. You have to.

[00:18:39] Because it's like, otherwise, like, you're not going to make it. And that's where the self-concept clarity comes in. I know who I am. I know the value I bring. I know the unique contribution I make. I'm clear on what I'm here to do. And I'm going to get on that stage and I'm going to deliver it. And I know it's going to be impactful because it's coming from it. Because I've done this work. What I ended up doing is going through a process like this. So I would say six to eight people. You want to do 10, go for 10. But six to eight. And the easy thing about it is you can just send them an email. Like, you don't even have to have a conversation.

[00:19:07] Copy, paste, send it out. And as you start to get things in, you'll notice these different people that don't even know each other are going to say similar things about you. And you're like, wait a second. That was very fun. That person sees this in me. And that person sees this in me. And that person sees this in me. Maybe that is actually how I am. Maybe that is something. Because for me, when I started getting this feedback from people, I was initially like, I mean, I hope people would say those things about me. But I don't know that they necessarily would.

[00:19:34] Because all I can see is all the ways I'm not enough. Or you feel like you're not enough. I literally got, I have one tattoo. And it says, I am enough. And that's the only thing I got. I mean, Brene Brown was a big inspiration for me in early careers. And when I coached, I did a similar thing. But it was just five words. Reach out to your community. And ask them to describe you in five words. And then put them in an Excel sheet.

[00:19:59] And now you could probably do a lot more fun stuff with AI if people are embracing that to get some of this feedback too. Which is why I say it's kind of a mirror as well. And then receiving. So that is a big piece. If talent and HR leaders are struggling with muting themselves. And they find the courage to do this outreach. To get some feedback. To look themselves in the mirror. And acknowledge how freaking awesome they are. Come on. Any tips on receiving?

[00:20:28] And I ask that because I spent a year working with kind of health and embodiment coach. To kind of balance some of that way my brain and body operated around abundance and stepping into my power. Which I feel like you've had kind of a front row seat to my evolution since fall of 24. And it is a daily practice to receive that. And truly like for us empaths. Like let it land.

[00:20:57] So that it does start to rewire and fix those little breaks that have happened over time from muting myself. And I'm so glad that I did that. And I know I wouldn't be where I am today had I not taken the time to do that shadow work, the reflection work, the ugly stuff that we're just like, I'm going to put that under the rug. Like not look at this. Yeah, no, I think it's an important question because the receiving part is so hard for people because we resist instead of receive.

[00:21:26] And so a couple things that might be helpful for how to think about that. One, if someone were handing you a physical gift, like let's say this is a gift. Okay. And Anna, I am handing you this gift. What a lot of us tend to do, like if this were to, we would deflect, diminish, or dismiss. Like, oh, let me put this. No, you're really this way. I'm going to deflect it, right? Diminish. Like, oh, it's really not that much. Or it's like, oh, what are you talking about? Like we're somehow, and it's really at the core, my belief is that it's a core of it's a fear of being seen. Because if I'm seen, I can be judged. And that's one of our biggest.

[00:21:54] And if I'm judged, then you could reject me. And if I'm rejected, then I don't exist, right? And ultimately, the ultimate obsolescence of not existing is death. And so like truly this fear of being seen, like if you go seven layers deep, I, and this might sound extreme, but I don't think that it is. It's really connected to this like fear of obsolescence. You know what I mean? And so we're afraid of being seen. So here's what I would propose.

[00:22:17] If someone has a tendency to deflect, diminish, or dismiss, if someone were handing you a physical gift, you would not ever bat it out of their hand. You wouldn't do that. Why? Because it's rude. But we do that with words all the time. If someone handed you a physical gift, you would say, oh, thank you. And you would take the physical gift and you would open the physical gift in front of them and you would recognize, hopefully it's a gift you like. Not always. But let's assume it's a gift you like. Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I can't wait to. And we cherish it and we're really present for it.

[00:22:43] But when someone does the same thing with our words, with their words, by giving us a gift of affirmation of some kind, we dismiss it. And so my invitation would be to really take when someone says something to you or about you that's really affirming. Even like literally, you mentioned the embodiment piece. I work with a breathwork coach every other week. And one of the things she has me do when we're talking, I'm saying something that's like coming up for me. That's that's really moving me in a moment. And I'll say I am whole and I am complete or something. She's like, OK, breathe that in.

[00:23:09] So someone says, like, you are the kind of person when you step into a room, you light it up like a Christmas tree. Like real. And it sounds woo, but really like let yourself. You have to viscerally feel it. You can't just repeat these words over to yourself over and over again in your head. It has to be connected. You have to internalize that and what you could even do. So like when you have someone gives you a kind word, even like hand on heart and like actually really taking it in. And when you're by yourself in your own quiet time, perhaps you could think about, well, what's a way?

[00:23:37] Can I think of a situation or a time where that strength or that affirmation someone gave me, a time where that showed up? Set a timer for five to 10 minutes and just journal and write down like, like, I really felt like I showed up in this way when or if it's somebody you're really close to that you trust, you can say, hey, sometimes I struggle with my confidence. You said this about me. Can you tell me about a time where when you saw that happen? Because I just sometimes and that is so vulnerable to ask for that because we're afraid it's self-serving.

[00:24:04] It is not self-serving because most of us are just truly that disconnected from who we are that we really might need somebody to be super specific with us about what they're reflecting back. And to do that over time and to really, really take it in when we get those words back. So that's a really big part of it is it's often rooted in a fear of being seen and a lack of self-worth. Of being obsolete. Yeah. And worth. Yeah.

[00:24:31] And I'm seeing in the TA and HR community, too, why I am especially ignited and thrilled with what I have the ability to build with Evolve is these spaces that allow HR and TA to come in and unmute and drop the mask and be past the mic and really be seen. Right.

[00:24:54] And so I've been hearing and reading some stats, Gen Z's driving analog experiences where it's reported that we're going to have just even a massive explosion of more innovative in-person type of containers. And I think it's so needed because of the mindset mishaps. And I do want to add to around how you were talking about receiving whole and complete.

[00:25:21] When I was building Evolve in 25, your song Believe in You was my mantra. And it's still, if you look at my Apple iTunes, or it's still one of my most recently played, if I find myself in some kind of friction or collusion, I will turn your song on super loud. I might drive a little bit fast. Maybe cry.

[00:25:43] But it's like I consciously allow myself to receive the message there because it had been reflected back to me so many times that everyone knew that I was capable and qualified to build this. And I just had to borrow your belief that I could get it done. And that same kind of habit and reset of my nervous system has continued on as I built the experience this year as well. So thank you.

[00:26:13] I don't think you realize that ripple effect. You're welcome. It means a lot. And I think I'm glad you brought that up because so much of this, everything we were just talking about is what it looks like to borrow someone's belief in you. To do a thing that you didn't know you can do. We are all, especially right now, we are all being asked to do things that we've never done before. And from a relevancy standpoint, like recruiters are like, what should we be doing? Are we tech evaluators?

[00:26:42] Are we AI engineers now? Like, what are we doing? And it is, especially for a lot of Gen Zs, both men, not Gen Z, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z are saying they are, again, struggling with loneliness. It's a mental health issue. Just talking about this need for analog experiences, this need for a greater level of connection and how people are really seeking that out now and wanting opportunities.

[00:27:11] Did you have to borrow anyone else's belief as you were building your songwriting career and as you continue to? I mean, that's the only way I did it. And it's funny because here's what happens. Here's a relatable kind of anybody can find themselves in the story. You're doing a thing. You're having fun with it. You're not really sure you know what you're doing. You're stumbling a little bit. And someone says, I think you should do that thing a little more. And you're like, I don't know how to do this thing. And then that person's like, well, here, I can help you do this thing because I've done a version of this thing before already. And so let me show you. Let me come alongside you and I can support you. You're not alone in doing this.

[00:27:41] Let me come alongside you. We can use both of our talents and we can amplify both of our talents by supporting and helping each other. Boom. Collaboration. Collaboration over competition. And so that's what happened. I started when I was in this car accident, spring of 2020. Oh, wait. So I have a question. The burnout from corporate, accident wasn't while you were at corporate. Y'all, she has a wild story that she's about to tell us about miracles and bounce back that I've never seen greater.

[00:28:09] This will tee us up for the borrowed belief conversation about how it relates to the singing. So, yeah, spring of 2020, nine months after leaving my corporate job, 85 percent of my business gone because my only source of income was in person speaking engagements on stages with people in the room, which. And that this is early. How many years have you been speaking now? Now, full time. I'm in my seventh year. Congrats. Ten years since I started keynoteing. Thank you. Amazing. It's really fun. Yeah. When I when I left my job, people were like, how are you going to get business? What's your business plan? I was like, my plan is to get business.

[00:28:38] But it's six weeks, seven weeks into the pandemic. And my husband and I are out running on a Sunday afternoon, crossing a street. We're innocently lights red, cross signals white Chevy Silverado pickup truck. Driver is apparently not paying attention to pedestrians and takes a right turn at a red light and hits me. Hit you as you're running, walking. My person. Okay. My person. Wow. Like was not in a vehicle.

[00:29:01] And then I end up at the hospital, diagnosed a spinal fracture a few hours later, which was not news that I wanted in 2020. It was not part of my bingo card. Not at all. I'm like, and then two days later, I was on a virtual event with a local chapter of SHRM giving a presentation to a group of HR leaders about building hope and resilience in the midst of uncertainty. Probably doped up on some pain meds trying to just, I don't know, but I get it. It was 2020.

[00:29:29] We had to do what we had to do, but you wouldn't advise doing that today. Would you? I would never advise that. I, my boss, my boss should have given me some time off. 100%. I was in a back brace hopped up on extra strength Tylenol with a tiger bomb patch on my back and about 10 minutes into the presentation. Tiger bomb. That stuff. Because my back was, I was like, I woke up with muscle spasms like four hours earlier and didn't sleep at all. And I was like, what are you doing? And I opened the talk with, ever felt like you got hit by a truck?

[00:29:59] Hey, but you got to lean into, you know, humor in some of these, especially in 2020. My goodness. Yeah. Yeah. Because everyone's like, yeah, Sam. And I was like, no, like literally. And so like two days ago, I can't imagine. Please tell me you recorded that call because it would be funny. Not funny, but to look at the faces of people's reaction when you said that. Probably do still have it somewhere in some file. There's your homework. That would be something to look up. My gosh. So would not recommend zero stars.

[00:30:26] But so what ended up happening was I was in a back brace for months and physical therapy for a year. And I felt not surprisingly in a really low spot. And about eight months afterwards, when we have these moments in our life where we hit a dip, we can stay there forever and feel sorry for ourselves. Or we can make a choice to activate a sense of agency and say, well, what can I still control? What do I still have the ability to influence? And for me, a thing that I always loved doing growing up was singing. But I was just not a performer. I was too shy to do it in front of anybody. But it always made me feel alive and brought me joy.

[00:30:54] So I thought, OK, one hour a week, I'm going to take virtual voice lessons on Zoom for no performative purpose at all. Just for my own well-being. I want to do that with dancing. I'm trying to find like a place that I can do something like that. Maybe even virtual. So just putting it out there, audience. Just if anybody knows. Yeah. A virtual dance instructor. I want to do J-Lo hip-hop moves. I guarantee someone. I guarantee that exists. That 100% exists.

[00:31:21] Well, I'm like the girl or the woman that goes and does this ecstatic dancing for like four hours and then gets blisters on her toes. And I'm like, I'm so in my body. I just can't be ecstatic every weekend. And I want to be cooler with my moves. I love it. Here for that. And that's because it brings you joy. So it's like, what makes me feel alive? When you feel like you're dead inside, ask yourself, what have I done in the past that made me feel alive? So singing. That means you're in a coffee cup. So it's like, but you, that's, we all have an answer to that question. Yes.

[00:31:51] Some of us are more connected to it than others. And that's okay. There's no judgment. But like, be honest with yourself. What's a little thing that made you feel alive? I've, I started posting videos on LinkedIn of singing. Like when the pandemic started, before I took voice lessons, I was singing things like Hakuna Matata. What a wonderful phrase or lean on me or I'm still standing better than I ever did. And people were responding to these videos and I booked gigs off of people were like, I saw your singing video of lean on me. Come speak at our leadership summit. Do you have any greatest showman in your repertoire?

[00:32:22] This is me. I do. I love like such a good song. So when the sharpest words trying to want to cut me down like that, that, yeah, I am brave. I am bruised. What is it? I don't know. The lyrics. I am who I'm meant to be. This is me. Yeah. Anyway, botch the lyrics, but you get the point. So I start sharing these things. People start responding. The part of myself that I muted was the thing people wanted. And I deeply relate to that. Like after I was like, screw it.

[00:32:50] I'm nobody's given me the mic to get on the stage. I'm just going to build my own. And it was so igniting. And it was like the hours went by and I was like, I'm having so much fun. I can do this and I can do this. And I want to pass the mic to this person. And then when it happened and the signal and the feedback and still receiving all of that was just a call for more that I operate from a very abundant place mindset.

[00:33:16] And I want to keep living that collaboration over competition and show that there's enough to go around. And I feel like the actions that you're taking or being able to show up in those ways are those micro like ripple impacts that lead to unmuting, lead to stepping into their power or is just that tiny little shift or tipping point that brings them into awareness so that we can see what is possible for us.

[00:33:46] So, I mean, amazing. I just am so inspired. But and that goes back to the believing, borrowing the belief until it happens. And then building anything is like the cha-cha is like two steps forward, two steps back. And so just but you're still in motion and still moving forward. So when they say like, I mean, this is really the outlier project, too, but like your circle determines your ceiling. And so part of it is who are you surrounding yourself with that's going to help you get to where you want to go.

[00:34:15] And so for me, I was like, I don't know how to do this stuff by myself. So I eventually hired a producer and a vocal coach who is a composer as well. And I sat down with him to, I thought, work on covers of maybe other people's music. And then he looked at me and said, what do you want to write your first song about? And I was like, oh, I didn't know that's what I was here for because I don't write songs. That's the universe doing for you what you didn't know needed to happen, right? Yeah, 100%. And then five months later, my first song, Somebody Came Out on Spotify. And I like so fast. It's five. I know.

[00:34:44] And I didn't know. I know people that have been writing music for years that have never released a song. And I was like, oh, I just thought you start working on music and you release songs. That's how I thought this worked. Which is messy and perfect action. Like, get it done. And for people listening that are thinking about stepping out and doing something like that, trust the nudges and ask for help. And the one thing that I wanted to share just went out that ear, down the hall and out the driveway. I got one for you, though. Can I add it like a cherry on top of this bit?

[00:35:13] I said it on a podcast four years ago. And I say it on stage every time I speak now. That's related directly to the story and to anyone who's in a place of doubt where you're like, I think I could see you're on the precipice of making a move, of evolving, of stepping up. But there's something in you that's holding you back. Doubt. I'm not good enough. I don't have what it takes. I don't know the preparation. I don't have the credentials, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. An invitation is an indication of a qualification. Yes. You got invited in. You got invited in. And I'm making a merch store, by the way, right now that's going to have all this stuff on it.

[00:35:43] Yay! Yay! All right. Be sure we'll include that in the show notes as well. I will. You heard it here first, folks. But that's the truth, right? An invitation is an indication of a qualification. You get invited into an opportunity. You can sit there and have that initial conversation in your head of why you're not qualified. Somebody else thinks you are. Bar their belief in you. Leroy, what do you want to write your first song about? Had no logical, rational reason to ask me that question because I had no background in doing the thing he was asking me to do. I had a few years of voice lessons. That was literally it. But he saw something in me.

[00:36:13] So this is another lesson too. And when you're in a position of HR, talent management, you are working with people that you see potential in that are holding themselves back. And sometimes what they need from you is they need to borrow your belief. They need you to say, hey, look, I see this in you. You're really good at A, B, and C, which is why I think you'd be a great fit for X, Y, Z. How can I best support you to take that step forward? Because I really believe you are capable of this.

[00:36:40] And we forget sometimes that we have the ability to be catalysts for other people's transformation just by one sentence, by one conversation we have that showcases and demonstrates our belief in somebody else. 100%. And so many people in the Outlier Project have really supported me like that, where Scott has said, I'm proud of you. Like, yeah, as a 50 year old woman, like I don't have people say I'm proud of me that often. Right.

[00:37:08] And so for me, it kind of took me back to like high school, where that's probably when I needed to hear that the most. And so hearing that as an adult with now a teenager who has gone through a lot and is starting to unmute herself and finding singing as a little woman, as I call her. And your story has always been like brewing in the back of my mind. So anytime I've been blessed to be able to hear her sing, a lot of them are just like, no, I don't want you to listen.

[00:37:37] Like I had to get her a belt box so she could practice. And it's about self-expression, like a safe space for self-expression. And that's exactly what our HR and talent leaders are needing and craving and wanting. And it's messages like yours. And I feel like communities and events and conferences that align with that vision that really are going to collectively elevate the world of work. Well said. No notes.

[00:38:07] All right. As a speaker, because I know I got to get you on your way. In the past, you had to apply. I would expect now after seven years of speaking and investing a lot in your trade and skills that you've experienced all types of being booked as a speaker. So as a new creator, recruiter, now event person and salesperson and marketing and photography and all the other things. What makes you feel like the setup is smooth?

[00:38:34] What are some of the key things that you've experienced from an onboarding standpoint that you're like, I love working with this group and I will come back and be a speaker anytime? Not including money, just the experience of the whole from beginning to end. There's two things in particular that stand out for me. Trust and enthusiasm. When I get on a call and I feel like someone is genuinely excited. Rachel, we are so excited to have you speak at this event. And some of the event planning calls, I always do planning and debrief calls for all my events.

[00:39:03] And some of the planning calls I've been having are with teams of like five or six people. And we're talking through it together. Like I'm a co-creator. So when someone wants to co-create with me, so I'm always like, so here's my plan, but I don't do anything that's off the shelf. So this is what my plan is. How is this going to land? Do we need to tweak this? What do we need to modify? What's most important to the people in the room? And when they know the people they're serving well and they care deeply about them, they can respond very thoughtfully to my questions. And when they, when I get on the call and they have this enthusiasm of Rachel, we're so excited to have you.

[00:39:33] There's your message has so much alignment with the theme of our conference. Our people really need to hear this right now. I'm like, yeah, how I show up is I can show up as my fullest self because I feel like my fullest self is being invited to show up. Right. And you're being, it's public validation on, again, like that mirror giving you that extra boost of confidence. And I'm sure on days that are harder than others. Well, and that and feeling trusted is when I, like, for instance, something I do at the

[00:40:00] end of my keynotes, as I tell the story, like whether it's a keynote I'm doing on resilience of sort of from the, from blindside to breakthrough, having this conversation. Can you just tell us a little bit more about the different types of keynotes that you do? So my audience listening knows as well. Yeah. So the two that I'm getting asked to do most often, one is around navigating disruption and building resilience from the inside out. And so I call it's reflect, reframe, recalibrate. It's helping people anchor in purpose, rewrite the story you're telling yourself about what's happening and getting clear on who you want to be.

[00:40:29] Because you can only take people as far as you've gone yourself. And so self-leadership is a really core component of navigating change and disruption effectively. Oh my gosh. Say it louder for the people in the back. Well, that honestly, like my time in corporate and even agency, like the need for self-leadership in addition to some executive leadership training would have been amazing. Yeah. So there's, so there's that. And I tell it obviously through the lens of this accident story, but also through other stories and weaving things in and helping people see what can you still control?

[00:40:58] What do you, what can you do with what you still have, regardless of all the stuff that's going on? What do people most need from you as a leader in times of change and uncertainty? And then the other keynote that I'm doing most often is around helping people to unmute themselves. And so that's really taking them through a framework I created called the voice method, which takes them from a place of stagnation, fear, doubt, stuckness to confidence, courage, momentum, and aliveness. And it really guides them through this process of shifting from self-silencing to elevating their

[00:41:26] self-concept clarity to getting really clear when they walk out of there of what's the bold action that I'm going to take to show up more fully, to say yes, and to contribute at a higher level. So it's, it's really at the core self-leadership and employee engagements and, and sort of activating the courage and confidence people to get them to do those things is really at the core of what I'm often speaking about. Amazing. And that, that resonates so much, both from the talent and HR side, because again, they're

[00:41:53] historically known for taking care of everyone else and just running so lean and not having resources. And so all the things that we've talked about today from, you know, burnout to just playing the corporate game and showing up and just being under the radar again, like ask yourself, like, what is that silence costing you? Right. Um, and we put a great exercise in here to kick things off for folks if they need a nervous

[00:42:21] system reset or some ways to rewire their brain. And thank you so much for that. I'm going to end with like, you've been to way more conferences than I have. So we're going to, I would love to debrief with you on another call, but like conference pet peeves go. Oh gosh. No names, but just random stuff like a bathroom seven miles away from your booth. Starting off with 45 minutes of announcements and awards. Don't do that to people.

[00:42:52] Don't, don't put your most engaging keynote at the end of the conference. Yes. There's the recency effect. They want to keep people there. Like get, get somebody to start an event that is going to get people to interact with each other. Like, yes, I don't understand why candidly, and this is soapbox. I don't understand why that doesn't happen. Another pet peeve is when someone is clearly giving a generic talk and they do not know who they're talking to. I've been in rooms where I'm like, if I pause the keynote right now and I asked that speaker

[00:43:20] who was in the room, they would not be able to tell me what any of these people do. Well, is that because they've just gotten to be such a big shot public speaker that they're just like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Tony Robbins speak at bobblehead. And then they fly out and they just don't give a crap. I don't know. I mean, that's some of it, but there's still some really big name speakers. That's not how we roll. And there's still plenty of big name speakers that like do the work and really understand who they're talking to. And I just feel like these days that's a necessity or people that come out with like a lot of pithy quotes, like have some original ideas.

[00:43:50] Like so many people are just re-quoting everybody else. Have your own original content. Like don't just regurgitate what everybody else has already said. Have an opinion. Have your own thought. Have your own voice. Have your own perspective, which takes you time to journal and spend time alone. And think about and work with yourself. And body meant coach to trust that you're not dumb and that you do have an opinion or a strong narrative that you do want to share. And then be able to receive and manage whatever comes.

[00:44:19] That is complexity, I think, at its greatest in a way. But more conference by peeves. Yeah. Like, look, you bring all these people together that are in similarly situated roles. If you don't give them chances to learn from each other, to have facilitated conversations that help them bring out the best of what they're doing so that they can then truly build community and truly lean on one another. Huge missed opportunity if they're just being talked at the entire time. Like have you ever been to a conference or an event where people had assigned seating?

[00:44:49] Oh, yeah. Yeah. So first year I assigned seats the first half so I could curate conversation starter market research and don't want people pitching. I want them connecting because connection and trust is the tipping point to all types of opportunity, money, new career, whatever. And this year I ran four ballrooms with round tops. And my qualification, you know, in selecting my speakers was I wanted more of a mastermind

[00:45:17] workshop framework focused. Like you've given us so many fun acronyms and containers and ways that we can get from point A to point B. And that in theory, like you think is simple, but the execution of building that and delivering it takes some finessing and some skills. But the impact is so much greater because so many people come to conferences and are introverts

[00:45:43] and come alone because maybe their companies are cheap and only paid for one HR leader to come. So having those structured conversations is a huge priority for me. And sometimes in the back of my head, I worry that people are going to be like, that's dumb. It's like forced networking or something like that. But I don't care. Y'all need to know each other. Yeah, you need to know and giving them chance. It's like and they don't naturally like you have to create safe spaces for them to do that

[00:46:12] that are easy, even not eye rolling. I mean, like don't make people do stuff that makes their eyes roll like nobody wants to be in those rooms. We've all been in those rooms before. But that's a delicate balance because like in corporate, I was like, hey, we're all in HR and talent. Why don't we dress up like firefighters? And people were like, no, so dumb. And so that tape in me, I was like, I'm not going to try to get people to be fun and dress up at work. So it's it's that that balance. But I guess creating the space where they can opt in or opt out with however they feel

[00:46:42] the most comfortable. So yeah, low risk like Slido or Mentimeter. I use Mentimeter in all my keynotes because that way the people that are not interested in having conversations with anybody can still contribute. Their voice can still be part of the conversation, even if they're not actually talking. And so it's like, how do you give people different entry points to be able to have a voice and to contribute their ideas, their experiences? Because what that does is it makes them feel like they're not alone in the room. And that's the biggest thing. I mean, that's my goal in what I'm building is that people leave there ignited and feeling

[00:47:11] seen, heard and understood. And this year we had people being like, who can I give a testimonial to? And I was like, what's happening? And this one beautiful woman that I met was like in tears. And she's like, everyone I met is so amazing. And she's like, I'm deeply moved. She's like, I think I need to go to my car and like just have a cleansing cry. I was like, can I go with you? But those things and allowing ourselves to like receive that is so important. So I want to close with that.

[00:47:41] And also just thank you for blessing us with your expertise and wisdom and seeing me and the way that you have and know that you're a huge part of the Evolve Foundation and have just made a big impact on me. And I think everyone should help me recruit Rachel to join Evolve either in 27 or 28. Let's chat. I'll be calling your agent. So you're looking at her. Exactly. Well, thank you so much.

[00:48:10] Anything you want to leave our audience with, even maybe a small tune. Totally up to you. Yeah. Well, I wanted to say to you is that this is the part of the message that I really believe in my core, that if everyone truly believed this, they would show up more fully and they would unmute themselves. So I want you to hear this. I want everyone else to hear this. And I want you to know this, that you are somebody, you are somebody, you matter and you are enough. Yes.

[00:48:38] You are somebody. You are somebody. You matter and you are enough. You are enough. I'm Rachel. I'm my daughter. Enough. You're so much more than enough, everybody who's listening. We love you. Bye-bye. Lugs to everyone. Until next time. Keep evolving. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thanks for joining the Evolve Talent and HR show. If the conversation landed, share it. Tell it later. Pass it forward.

[00:49:07] That is the multiplier in action. One connection at a time, building momentum across our community. And that is what Evolve is. We build the rooms where connection compounds into impact. So don't sleep on the in-person experiences, the IRL conferences, the executive tables, the fringe events, our community. Show up. That's where the multiplier multiplies. If you know, you know. Head over to evolve-conference.com to see what's evolving and how to stay connected.

[00:49:36] We'll see you next time.