Kimberly Bowen - Recruiting Talent in Niche Labor Markets

[00:00:02] Here's an experiment for you. Take passionate experts in human resource technology

[00:00:07] Invite cross-industry experts from inside and outside HR. Mix in what's happening in people analytics today

[00:00:15] Give them the technology to connect hit record pour their discussions into a beaker

[00:00:21] mix thoroughly and

[00:00:22] Voila, you get the HR Data Labs podcast where we explore the impact of data and analytics to your business

[00:00:31] We may get passionate and even irreverent

[00:00:33] But count on each episode challenging and enhancing your understanding of the way people data can be used to solve real-world problems

[00:00:41] Now here's your host David Turetsky

[00:00:46] Hello and welcome to the HR Data Labs podcast

[00:00:48] I'm your host David Turetsky alongside my friend trusted co-host

[00:00:52] colleague partner and salary comm co-employee

[00:00:56] Dwight Brown

[00:00:57] David Turetsky, how are you?

[00:00:59] I'm okay

[00:01:00] As you can tell I've had a lot of caffeine today

[00:01:03] So this is gonna go really go by really fast. David's like a hummingbird today. He's just all over the place

[00:01:10] Why I don't know why the flight of the Valkyrie just came to mind that song

[00:01:15] But we have a very special guest today

[00:01:17] Kimberly Bowen Kimberly, how are you? I'm fantastic

[00:01:21] I I'm probably gonna match your energy. So just get ready. Awesome. Yeah, there you go

[00:01:27] Kimberly tell us a little bit about you and how you got to this moment in time. Yeah, so I

[00:01:34] Grew up as an Air Force brat. I'm based in Chattanooga, Tennessee, but grew up all over this great country and Canada

[00:01:41] Actually graduated from high school there Wow

[00:01:45] And I worked for a major disability provider and have been in HR for about 23 years now

[00:01:51] That's awesome. So you speak Canuck?

[00:01:54] I do not

[00:02:00] I

[00:02:02] Like to watch hockey I do not play but I do like to watch I got into it

[00:02:07] You know and in high school, we had a great hockey team

[00:02:10] And so yeah, I'm still a very much a hockey fan to this day

[00:02:14] As the Canadians would say there was a fight and then a hockey game broke out

[00:02:20] I was gonna ask is it do you like hockey for the hockey or do you like it for the fights?

[00:02:24] I like it for the fight, but you know

[00:02:28] Hey listen, I played for 50 years. I've only gotten to like five or six fights during that time

[00:02:33] I have oh, I well you weren't doing it, right?

[00:02:41] But I'm a goalie too and a goalie fight is a very rare occasion

[00:02:45] That's rare. Yeah, my helmet's right behind me

[00:02:47] But yeah, no, it's it's not it's not something that we actively tried to do

[00:02:50] Yeah, no in your in your position. That makes complete sense

[00:02:55] Thank you. But now that you've told us all that background now

[00:02:59] I'm going to ask you was that the one fun thing that no one knows about you

[00:03:02] Do people kind of know about that about about you?

[00:03:04] Yeah, so I think most people know that there's there is one fun fact that people don't know and I'm gonna tell it

[00:03:10] As quickly as I can

[00:03:12] And I'm gonna tell you what I'm gonna tell you

[00:03:14] Yeah, I will tell you the truth. I'm gonna tell you the truth. I'm gonna tell you the truth

[00:03:20] I am going to wear this helmet as quickly as I can

[00:03:24] And it I will be very transparent is kind of born from trauma from a trauma experience

[00:03:30] But here's the deal. I

[00:03:32] Have a wardrobe calendar and I can tell you what I am going to wear

[00:03:37] 365 days of the year. I

[00:03:40] In high school

[00:03:42] I'll just tell you my maiden name is strange

[00:03:44] So I was Kimberly strange and if you remember in school, it was always last name first

[00:03:51] So the very first day of school

[00:03:55] Teacher would take attendance. I was strange Kimberly

[00:04:00] So I was primed for all the bullying. Oh my god. I'm so sorry

[00:04:06] That's like 25 years of therapy in the making

[00:04:11] So by the time I got to high school

[00:04:13] I you know, there's nothing I can do about my name

[00:04:16] And I saw the mean girls and and some of the things that people were getting picked on for and I just will

[00:04:22] Never forget the very first day of high or the very first week of high school

[00:04:26] There's a group of girls really mean girls are a thing and they said to this this poor kid

[00:04:33] Didn't you wear those same jeans on Tuesday? Oh my gosh

[00:04:37] Yeah, and I thought okay. I can't do anything about my name

[00:04:41] But I can control what I wear and so I went home that night and I literally took every piece of clothing that I owned

[00:04:48] Out and I mix and matched as many outfits as I could so I never wore the exact same outfit

[00:04:55] And I wrote them all down and I did this for 30 days

[00:04:59] And then I did it again for another 30 days and another 30 days and after doing this

[00:05:05] For four years in high school. It just became a part of who I am and to this day

[00:05:10] I still use a wardrobe calendar so I can tell you exactly what I'm gonna wear

[00:05:14] That's people think I have the best wardrobe because they can never see me in the same thing

[00:05:19] Like for an extended period of time

[00:05:22] So that's why I said it was born from trauma because I was really just trying to avoid being picked on for something

[00:05:27] Other than you know strange Kimberly

[00:05:30] But it has served me well as an adult. I don't spend time in my closet

[00:05:35] Figuring out what I'm gonna wear every day. Yeah, I know

[00:05:41] People ask well, what if you don't feel like wearing that thing that day

[00:05:46] Well, then I just look at the calendar and figure out what else do I want to wear and then I swap those outfits

[00:05:51] That's amazing. That's brilliant. You officially win the award for the best

[00:05:57] Store hands down hands down of all the things we've heard none have been that good

[00:06:06] Everybody's gonna want to figure out how to do it. I so wish I could connect with somebody who could help me figure out

[00:06:13] Well, somebody can help me figure out how to do this in app format I could I could market this you and me

[00:06:19] It'd be great. We'll do it. We'll get it done. That'd be awesome sold Wow

[00:06:24] However, I have another thing that we need to definitely need to talk about so had you gotten your PhD

[00:06:31] You would have been dr. Strange

[00:06:34] Yes, I would have been dr. Strange didn't go that far in school just had the masters

[00:06:39] But yes, I would have been dr. Strange, but here's the thing one of the greatest characters

[00:06:43] It would have been super cool. It would not have been you know, it was not cool in high school

[00:06:48] But today yeah

[00:06:50] Actually, there was a faction of kids who you probably didn't want to hang out with but there were a faction of kids who loved

[00:06:55] Dr. Strange and probably would have embraced you as their God. Yeah, you I I missed that crowd. I missed them

[00:07:02] I don't know where those students were but no they were there they were there

[00:07:07] They were the invisible people because I was part of them. So I

[00:07:10] Know well, I was I was invisible too except for my name

[00:07:14] Yeah, well that's a good thing you stayed under the radar

[00:07:17] I was the only strange usually in the whole school. So that that usually got passed around pretty quickly Kimberly

[00:07:23] We already love you. So, you know

[00:07:25] Thanks, and the people who are listening are going oh my god. These guys are having too much fun

[00:07:30] But this is a podcast about human resources

[00:07:33] And so we've got to get to the topic because the topic is just awesome, too

[00:07:37] So today's topic is recruiting for niche talent in niche labor markets

[00:07:43] So Kimberly our first question is what's one of the biggest challenges in recruiting and retaining talent in today's competitive job market?

[00:08:00] Yeah, this is just a great question and I'm so excited to talk about it

[00:08:04] so I think there's two things that have happened over the last couple of years that both employers and

[00:08:10] Job seekers have to acknowledge is that the labor market has shifted

[00:08:15] As a result of coded one of the things that we know happened was that there was a pretty

[00:08:20] Sizable migration of people moving to different areas within the country

[00:08:26] So you had people that were in the city that were moving into more, you know rural areas

[00:08:32] Some folks migrated from big cities to small towns

[00:08:35] And so where the talent exists today and that heat map or the landscape of that is very different

[00:08:43] Than what it was even three years ago four years ago

[00:08:47] And so the first thing that I think companies really need to understand is

[00:08:51] What does their labor market look like today?

[00:08:55] Because most companies are used to just casting a net and you know hiring locally

[00:09:01] For specific talent and when we talk about niche talent, we're really talking about your finance

[00:09:07] your DTO your kind of highly specialized knowledge and skill sets and

[00:09:13] Maybe you're fishing in a pond where there's no fish anymore and

[00:09:18] So you've got to really adjust so one of the first things that employers have to do is really

[00:09:22] Re-educate themselves about what their labor market looks like today because like I said, it's gone through a pretty sizable shift

[00:09:29] And then the other piece that I think is also

[00:09:33] challenging within the labor market today is that three or three or four years ago the

[00:09:40] candidate or the job seeker

[00:09:42] Let's be honest

[00:09:43] They had the upper hand and there were a lot of things that people could ask for and companies were pretty flexible

[00:09:49] We were rolling out the red carpet for talent, right?

[00:09:53] And that's not so much the case anymore

[00:09:55] So the things that maybe were permissible to ask for or to even expect a company to provide three years ago

[00:10:02] It's just not a reality and I think all of this has changed so quickly that to be honest

[00:10:07] That to be honest, I think it's given both employers and job seekers a little bit of whiplash

[00:10:13] Because people don't realize that things have changed and so they're still operating off of some outdated principles

[00:10:19] And you know both both sides have got to make some changes to be able to meet in the middle

[00:10:25] because if you look at the labor market today, what's interesting is that

[00:10:29] unemployment is lower than it has been in

[00:10:33] Years decades, I mean I think we're 3.9 percent for the month of February

[00:10:39] And I think that equates to about six point five million people out of work

[00:10:45] But there's about eight point eight million jobs

[00:10:48] So if there's more jobs than there are job seekers

[00:10:52] Why can't companies hire and why can't people find jobs? So it's really this mismatch

[00:10:58] That that's happening in our labor market today that has to be addressed

[00:11:03] And has to be acknowledged

[00:11:04] So let's first take one of those pieces and try and examine it a little further because it's actually to me

[00:11:10] It's fascinating which is the culture of a company who's trying to recruit in their own market

[00:11:15] The world is now your oyster you can hire from anywhere, but you still have those managers who insist no

[00:11:22] I want to find someone local

[00:11:23] I want to have someone come into the office if they're an in-the-office type of place for right now

[00:11:28] Right and they then I think what you're saying is get over yourself

[00:11:32] This is no longer the situation where you can put an ad in the New York Times or wherever

[00:11:37] And expect someone to apply for it and then be able to walk in your office, you know to do the interviews

[00:11:43] You know the world has changed significantly right? I mean the dynamics of that of that have changed

[00:11:49] Absolutely, correct. So I think what companies have to do is they've got to look at what makes sense

[00:11:55] Not only for their business from a cultural perspective

[00:11:59] But what makes sense from a labor market and a talent perspective and how do you sort of marry the two?

[00:12:06] So I'll tell you what we've done within our organization is that we're a hybrid organization, right?

[00:12:12] So we have a percentage of our jobs that are what we call campus-based

[00:12:17] And folks are expected to come into the office

[00:12:19] but we also acknowledge that a percentage of our workforce needs to be fully remote and

[00:12:25] What is encapsulated in you know that particular bucket of

[00:12:30] Remote roles are those niche jobs

[00:12:33] So when we know that we need to hire in the technology space or in the finance space

[00:12:40] Because that talent pool is in such high demand and there is a short supply

[00:12:46] Compared to how many employers are needing to hire in that space. You have to be flexible

[00:12:52] So we allow those roles to be remote we allow those roles to to have more flexibility

[00:12:58] Around where they work and that works for us

[00:13:02] And do you ever see?

[00:13:05] backlash and resentment toward those niche jobs as a result of that

[00:13:11] Sometimes I mean, I think that but it's less about those roles. I think people really kind of understand

[00:13:17] Okay, it's difficult to find that talent in the local markets and so maybe you have to have to hire remotely

[00:13:23] I think where we still see some

[00:13:27] Expectancy is that just sort of as I talked about holding on to sort of outdated philosophies of hey

[00:13:33] I did this job remotely for two years during kovat

[00:13:37] I don't understand why I can't continue to do it remotely right and that's not really the debate

[00:13:42] I don't think anybody's debating whether the jobs can be done

[00:13:46] There's a lot of things that you can do the question is should you and so I think that's what we as an organization

[00:13:54] and most companies are really grappling with is

[00:13:57] based on our culture our

[00:14:00] Strategic plans where we're trying to take our organization

[00:14:04] What really serves that from a labor perspective?

[00:14:07] Can we do that with a fully remote workforce or can we do that with a hybrid?

[00:14:14] Or does everybody have to work in the office? And so I think that you know, that dynamic is different for every organization

[00:14:22] And companies have to make that decision but not in a vacuum, right?

[00:14:26] You look at you look at your peers. You see what other organizations are doing

[00:14:30] You take feedback from your employees you look at productivity

[00:14:34] I mean

[00:14:34] There's a lot of pieces of information that I think companies can look at to figure out what that needs to be for them

[00:14:41] But I think it's a very confusing picture right now because many companies are struggling with the what's the best thing and

[00:14:49] There really isn't a an answer you have

[00:14:52] Some on this side that say it's got to be everybody's got to be in the office and some this side that go

[00:14:58] Why and have been braceful remote and then there's some like you are in the middle where you know

[00:15:03] Some people can be some people don't don't have to be

[00:15:06] But to me there's there's some kind of freedom in being able to say I can hire the best talent

[00:15:14] I can if I don't worry about where they're located and take them my op and I'm sorry from if I'm insulting people the

[00:15:21] Myopathy of they must be in the office and they must do that

[00:15:25] Well, okay

[00:15:26] well

[00:15:26] Wait a minute if I can find someone who's got all the skills and they they check all the boxes except for one which

[00:15:32] Location yes, and if you kind of need them to be there every once in a while

[00:15:36] Okay fine pay for a plane ticket or a bus ticket or whatever or you know a train ticket

[00:15:41] But hiring the best person doesn't necessarily mean they need to live next door

[00:15:46] That is absolutely correct. And I think that's where for organizations like mine where we understand that and so we have that flexibility

[00:15:54] And let me say, you know if we have a role that does not fall within

[00:16:00] The finance or the technology space but maybe it

[00:16:06] requires a special experience or a special knowledge and

[00:16:10] We know that that talent does not exist in our local markets and we're going to have to go outside of that

[00:16:16] We will and we'll make that decision

[00:16:18] And so I think that's the key right is that you've got to have the flexibility within your organization

[00:16:24] To make different choices based on the circumstances and whatever is gonna meet your needs

[00:16:30] I think for those organizations that are trying to sort of shoehorn everybody into a one-size-fits-all

[00:16:37] Solution, I think that's where you have the the challenge

[00:16:41] But you know for us our employees work in the office if you are an individual contributor

[00:16:48] it's two days a week and if you're a people leader then it's three and

[00:16:52] So we still even within that they still have some days to work from home or work wherever

[00:16:59] They want to work and then in addition to that

[00:17:02] We actually offer one week out of the every quarter. You can work from anywhere

[00:17:08] So, you know if your family goes to the beach every you know, July

[00:17:15] And maybe you don't want to use your PTO and you don't want to take all all your time

[00:17:19] Go work from the beach for a week and use that as your work from anywhere for the court work from anywhere week for

[00:17:26] So I think again it's about that flexibility however, you can provide

[00:17:32] That flexibility within your organization and it supports your culture and it supports your strategic vision then do it

[00:17:41] Like what you hear so far make sure you never miss a show by clicking subscribe

[00:17:46] This podcast is made possible by salary comm now back to the show

[00:17:52] What about those single parents or even the parents that are not in the same situation

[00:17:57] To two earners who are they're both working

[00:17:59] Do you think that there is a way we can support them by offering whether it's a child care benefit?

[00:18:05] And I know that there's you know, the flexible spending account for child care, but I'm not talking about that

[00:18:11] I'm talking about access to like some kind of service or whatever or some reasonable accommodation

[00:18:18] So if the kid has to get off the bus and you said they need to be in the office three days a week

[00:18:22] When they don't have anybody to help them there

[00:18:24] What you know, what do you say about the kind of flexibility that's built into the people who have been flexibly working from home?

[00:18:32] So I think that gets into the benefits right of whatever

[00:18:36] Whatever that organization is offering and that really is about

[00:18:41] Meeting your employees where they are exactly. So you've again you've got to take a look at what can you do that's

[00:18:49] Reasonable right because everybody's got skin in this game. I can't solve child care issues for our workforce

[00:18:56] You know single-handedly

[00:18:59] They've got to meet us, you know meet us half your doctor strange

[00:19:01] But I am doctor strange, but I don't my powers are not working

[00:19:07] My powers are not working right now

[00:19:10] But we've got we have such a robust so we have things like

[00:19:15] So one of the things and not to skip away from child care because that that certainly is important and that's a whole other

[00:19:21] Issue you guys could do a whole other show

[00:19:23] on the lack of child care in this country today, but

[00:19:28] What's also on the other end of that spectrum because we're dealing with the multi-general

[00:19:33] Multi-generation workforce is you know caregivers. So we have a lot of our employees that are taking care of parents

[00:19:41] And so we've got caregiver leave we have you know other benefits we do have backup child care

[00:19:49] Support so we do have those types of benefits

[00:19:52] That can support our employees and making plans and how to manage some of those pieces of their life

[00:19:58] Right, and then again, we also you know, we have we have managers who are empowered to say

[00:20:04] Okay, I'm gonna work with this person and if they need to get a kid off the bus for the next four weeks

[00:20:09] Because they need time to make alternative arrangements

[00:20:12] Then I can do that. So I again it goes back to

[00:20:17] employers have a lot of flexibility and what they can do but the flip side to that is

[00:20:22] The employee also has to meet him in the middle and they can't expect that we're gonna carry the brand or carry the weight

[00:20:28] Of all of this

[00:20:29] They've got to make some decisions and some concessions too

[00:20:32] And if it's not the right culture the right organization if you're trying to work a hybrid job

[00:20:38] And you really need a hundred percent fully remote because of your own personal circumstances

[00:20:44] Then you know as an employee you have a choice to make

[00:20:48] You can't expect the employer to solve all of those issues for you. Oh, so it's two-way street two-way street

[00:20:55] But I think that as I said at the beginning

[00:20:58] Everybody's kind of recovering from some whiplash because things looked very different three years ago

[00:21:03] Sure, and that's one of the problems though is that whiplash?

[00:21:07] It's not all on the employee and it cannot be on the employer

[00:21:11] There has to be some give-and-take and it has to be a mature conversation

[00:21:14] That's right

[00:21:15] It's not always been the case

[00:21:16] As we've seen actually with return to work where one side says you're gonna get your butt in here and you're gonna be

[00:21:22] Here five days a week and you're gonna be eight hours a day. You're fired

[00:21:25] I mean, I'm not really sure what that leader was thinking about when they were so draconian about that

[00:21:32] You know pronouncement, but that's not what we expect after what we just dealt with through kovat 19, right? So

[00:21:41] You know as employees let's put on an employee hat now

[00:21:45] You know the equations changed a little bit too and we now have seen that employees have gotten some of that

[00:21:51] quote-unquote power

[00:21:53] About how I want to work how I want to live and what my balance between life work is not work life

[00:22:00] Work so that in the intentionality of I want to live and then I have to do my job

[00:22:07] Not I'm gonna take a call at 10 p.m. Even when I'm putting my kid to bed because you know, there's an emergency

[00:22:14] People have gotten a little bit of that power haven't they? Yeah, absolutely. I would say so

[00:22:18] I mean, I think that you know three years ago when we were all trying to navigate through cove it and what was necessary

[00:22:26] You know decisions that were necessary at that time

[00:22:29] It definitely shifted things what I will say though is that

[00:22:34] hovid was

[00:22:35] Absolutely, you know for many of us will be probably one of the worst experiences of our lives as we you know

[00:22:42] Look back on our history

[00:22:44] And what we've lived through for for all of us that went through that but there was a life before cove it

[00:22:51] and it didn't wipe all of those things away and so I think that there are there there

[00:22:58] I think there are definitely some things that have changed and have evolved and are moving forward

[00:23:04] But there are also some things that are simply going back to the way they were pre

[00:23:09] cove it because that that's how those things work and so

[00:23:14] There is an expectation within organizations that culture is very important. There are things about you know an organization that

[00:23:23] It requires people to be in the office it requires people to have face time with one another

[00:23:28] so for example within my organization, we are

[00:23:33] extremely committed to community service

[00:23:38] We give to our community where the communities where we live and work we give to those communities through volunteerism

[00:23:46] Um through financial support

[00:23:48] We need our employees coming into the office to participate in those things because some of those things we do here on site

[00:23:56] You can't do that remotely. You can't pack care packages

[00:24:00] For you know homeless people you can't

[00:24:03] Um, you know pack care packages for teachers. These are some of the things that we do

[00:24:07] You can't do that from home now you you I won't say you can't

[00:24:11] But part of that is there is a cultural component for us working on those things together

[00:24:18] Right that is very important for for our

[00:24:22] Growth as an organization it strengthens and deepens

[00:24:26] Uh, you know our commitment to our values and to our purpose as a company

[00:24:31] And so for us those are important times that we would want people to be in the office

[00:24:36] So I and that that was the case pre coven

[00:24:40] So we weren't able to do those things during coven but now we can

[00:24:45] So that's not a new ask or you know something that we're just being difficult about

[00:24:51] We're just right sizing something that was already in play before

[00:24:55] We all got hit with coven totally understand what you're saying kimberly. However

[00:25:00] There's reasons to ask people to come into the office and that's a really good one, right?

[00:25:05] You know having an event like that

[00:25:07] Having meetings team meetings that you know, listen if you can please make it in for a team meeting

[00:25:12] We want to we want to be together. We want to you know, talk about things and you know, we want to try and problem solve

[00:25:18] however

[00:25:19] You know just like both of us know the commuting the cost

[00:25:24] The kids on the bus and not

[00:25:27] A lot of those things except for the being in person and being together and doing care packages, which are wonderful

[00:25:33] Those are all things that can happen remotely

[00:25:36] The the things about getting together and sharing your culture. Yeah, I get it

[00:25:40] But that's an event you can have people come into the event. Can't you? Of course, but here's the thing

[00:25:45] We believe that face-to-face interactions

[00:25:50] Albeit as I mentioned before two days a week or three days a week

[00:25:54] we believe all of those interactions in person meetings not just the

[00:25:59] Um the csr and and community service events, but all of that interaction

[00:26:05] Strengthens the culture of our company the relationships the working relationships that people have and so for us

[00:26:11] That makes sense

[00:26:13] And because I think that we have been able to clearly articulate that to our workforce and they get it

[00:26:18] We've been able to sustain that now we

[00:26:21] Again, we came back to the office a long time ago

[00:26:25] But you know, I I get that not everybody was on that same timeline

[00:26:29] So some people are at a different stage of this, you know worse than we are

[00:26:35] We've been back to work for a few years now. So yeah

[00:26:38] So it's very different

[00:26:41] Hey, are you listening to this and thinking to yourself man? I wish I could talk to david about this

[00:26:46] Well, you're in luck

[00:26:47] We have a special offer for listeners of the hr data labs podcast

[00:26:51] A free half-hour call with me about any of the topics we cover on the podcast or whatever is on your mind

[00:26:58] Go to salary.com forward slash h r d l consulting to schedule your free 30 minute call today

[00:27:07] And I think that kind of gets to the employee value proposition and when you're trying to find those really hard to find people

[00:27:14] You know or you have situations where you know

[00:27:18] You've already hired from the very beginning even pre-covid you hired excellent talent like my colleague dwight brown

[00:27:25] And never lived near a salary.com office not expecting him to come in except for like, you know on team meetings

[00:27:33] Like meetings or something. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know there is that you know, especially given what we were talking about about

[00:27:39] Niche markets and finding niche talent

[00:27:42] You know, it's really difficult as we we've just mentioned to try and look at a geographic area and say i'm only going to hire here

[00:27:49] right

[00:27:50] And then be able to extend an offer to someone who's in koala lampur or you know hiring someone overseas

[00:27:57] You know or even using gig work?

[00:28:00] Those have really got to be kind of your not necessarily a step stop gap

[00:28:04] But you know that's filling in for those niche players that you just can't find elsewhere aren't they?

[00:28:09] Um, maybe I mean, I think it depends on what you're hiring for

[00:28:13] I also think it depends on where you located, you know, I think one of the issues that we have is that you know, we're multi

[00:28:20] Location organization. So that's the other issue right is that we aren't just one building in one city

[00:28:26] um, we have

[00:28:28] What we would call three home offices within the the country and then we have about 75 sales offices, you know

[00:28:37] Um across the states so we have some options in terms of where we can put people right?

[00:28:44] So we don't always necessarily have to go to the remote because we have so many locations that we can

[00:28:50] Connect people to and so for us, that's a a unique

[00:28:55] Circumstance that I know not every employer has right but I think that's the you know

[00:29:00] So if you have a main office maybe in a major city, maybe you need to find talent elsewhere

[00:29:05] But do you have a smaller office or a sales office or you know somewhere else that maybe you can look for talent and in

[00:29:11] That particular labor market the talent that you need especially in that niche area is right

[00:29:17] For us, we're very close to atlanta. We have an atlanta hub

[00:29:20] And so we hire a lot of our niche roles in that office

[00:29:25] Versus in our chattanooga office because the talent pool there is much healthier

[00:29:31] For those skill sets than it is here in chattanooga and so I think geography definitely plays a role

[00:29:38] Um, but again, it's what type of flexibility do you have to make different talent decisions around?

[00:29:44] Where you place, you know the talent and if you have more than one office then you know use that to your advantage if you can

[00:29:51] Geography matters, but so does dispersion basically

[00:29:55] Well, one of the fun things that just happened to salary.com is a bunch of our associates actually

[00:30:02] Started we started hiring people but also we started realizing there's a bunch of people in the denver area

[00:30:08] And so like we could actually create

[00:30:11] Salary.com west because of all the people I think there's seven or eight people that are not far from

[00:30:18] Denver colorado or actually in denver

[00:30:21] So it's actually kind of funny how that's naturally kind of progressing to foment around that particular area

[00:30:27] And they actually do get together. There is a bunch of people who get together from that area to kind of

[00:30:32] What you know talk and get to know each other and help each other out because I I think a lot of them are

[00:30:36] Also, do I are they mostly in the consulting side? Yeah most of them. I like to say that I head up the phoenix office

[00:30:46] You and the two dogs are the phoenix office, right exactly my two employees

[00:30:51] They're kind of lousy employees, but you know

[00:30:54] Hey listen

[00:30:55] They're good employees

[00:30:56] But but what you say makes a lot of sense kimberly in terms of being able to

[00:31:01] You know so much so much of this is not only about geography

[00:31:04] But really do you have other offices that employees can come into and and you know

[00:31:11] dispersion definitely is a factor

[00:31:14] uh in those decisions as you go

[00:31:17] Absolutely. I think employers

[00:31:20] Want to be flexible. I I really do. I think they they want to be flexible, but

[00:31:25] You know what? I think is getting a little lost

[00:31:28] on folks is that at the end of the day, you know companies are going to

[00:31:33] To do what what they think is best for you know, their strategic plan and their their growth

[00:31:40] um and

[00:31:42] Employees will have to decide

[00:31:45] If that aligns with what they're looking for and what their needs are and if you can find

[00:31:52] You know common ground and meet in the middle great

[00:31:55] um, if not

[00:31:57] Then keep looking until you find what really works for you

[00:32:01] You know, like I said earlier there's more jobs than there are people looking for jobs

[00:32:07] Um, so it's just about you know finding the right opportunity that fits your needs

[00:32:12] I mean one of the other ways we could take this which may be in part two of this conversation given the fact that where

[00:32:18] We we spend so much time on this which is the compensation angle of you know

[00:32:23] There the market for jobs has changed especially for niche jobs

[00:32:28] And the pay for those niche jobs have gone

[00:32:31] Through the roof in many cases

[00:32:34] Even to the extent at which we've seen unskilled labor rates go through the roof and it's putting a lot of compression and pressure

[00:32:41] On the skilled labor, so there you know, there's a lot to talk about here

[00:32:54] Maybe we can have you back and do round two on this

[00:32:57] Absolutely. I'd love to come back and you have to refer to me as dr strange

[00:33:05] The whole time hopefully you've seen the dr strange movies

[00:33:09] Okay, so you know what i'm doing when i'm moving my hand i'm moving my hands in a way

[00:33:13] That dr strange does when he does things with his hands so he opens up time portals anyways, that's right

[00:33:19] Kimberly sorry dr. Strange. It was so wonderful to meet you and to have you on the program

[00:33:25] Well, thank you. It was great to be here. I enjoyed the conversation

[00:33:29] It's it's definitely one worth having and I look forward to coming back again soon round two dwight

[00:33:35] Thank you. Thank you and thanks for being here actually after this i'm going to go do my wardrobe calendar

[00:33:41] Um, well, but the problem is i've only got two outfits so you know my week is gonna be a short week

[00:33:49] I'm gonna be in my pj's half the time

[00:33:52] Wow

[00:33:54] This is another one fun thing that knew no one knew about dwight

[00:33:59] Exactly

[00:34:02] No, but wait we're wanted to know

[00:34:05] After dr strange and I come up with that new wardrobe calendar and it's going to be called

[00:34:09] Dr. Strange's wardrobe calendar. I love it. It's going to sell millions

[00:34:14] Millions I got to witness the inception of this idea

[00:34:18] It's the app that the world never knew they needed exactly they need it

[00:34:24] Move over bumble here comes dr. Strange's wardrobe calendar

[00:34:28] Well, actually it can be an add-on to the dating calendar the dating apps because you know

[00:34:34] You want to have the right outfit for your date?

[00:34:37] That's exactly right

[00:34:38] Love it. We've already developed the business plan. No one steal this we have to patent it before we actually air the episode

[00:34:46] Again, dr. Strange. Sorry kimberly. Thank you so much. You're awesome. Thank you

[00:34:51] Have a great day guys you too and thank you all for listening. Take care and stay safe

[00:34:57] That was the hr data labs podcast

[00:34:59] If you liked the episode, please subscribe and if you know anyone that might like to hear it, please send it their way

[00:35:05] Thank you for joining us this week and stay tuned for our next episode stay safe