Meet Sam, the first gen AI voicebot recruiter

[00:00:12] Welcome to Episode 78 of the High Volume Hiring Podcast. This is Stephen Rothberg. I'm one of your co-hosts from College Recruiter, where we believe that every student and recent grad deserves a great career and that it should be easy and inexpensive for employers to hire them. For those of our viewers and listeners who are in the U.S. or who care about the U.S., happy Thanksgiving. Jeanette, it's good to see you.

[00:00:37] Happy Thanksgiving. Good to see you guys as well. I'm Jeanette Lees. I'm an HR tech entrepreneur and I am here today along with Stephen with Max Armbruster, who's the CEO and founder of Top Push. Max, welcome. Welcome. So glad to have you here today.

[00:00:55] Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. I'm in Hong Kong right now where my wife is struggling to get a turkey.

[00:01:00] Oh. Well, we have wild turkeys in our backyard. So just, you know, have her fly about 25 hours to pick one up and you'll be all set.

[00:01:10] No big deal. No big deal. Well, we have lots to be thankful for. So let's start off today's Thanksgiving session with, maybe Max, just tell us like a bit about like what is Top Push?

[00:01:22] And I know we were talking behind the scenes like about Sam, like just give us a quick background on that.

[00:01:28] Well, last week we celebrated our 10 year anniversary. And for the last 10 years, we've been focused almost exclusively on high volume recruitment.

[00:01:38] So how did we wait 78 episodes for me to come on?

[00:01:45] But we focus on, I mean, high volume, as you know, there's a lot of industries that can fall in that category.

[00:01:51] But we've done most of our work with the contact center industry and with the retail sector.

[00:01:56] And we engage with candidates conversationally.

[00:02:00] So we were the first to build a recruitment chatbot on Facebook Messenger and then on WhatsApp.

[00:02:06] And yeah, now we're moving back to voice, which is where we started.

[00:02:10] We started in voice 10 years ago and moved to text.

[00:02:14] And now we're reintroducing voice.

[00:02:17] So that's what Sam is.

[00:02:18] Very cool.

[00:02:19] So one of the reasons that Jeanette and I really wanted you to come on the show is because you are courageous and also have a product that we think is going to be really amazing to demo for our users, the voice bot.

[00:02:34] So before we jumped on the air, in literally just a few minutes, Max got from Jeanette her mobile phone number and a very, very brief description of kind of like where she located and what was a job that she thought would have been really cool when she was 10.

[00:02:49] So we're going to have Sam, the AI recruiter, call and interview Jeanette.

[00:02:59] And the interview should last roughly five minutes.

[00:03:03] And we're going to share that live.

[00:03:05] We're going to do it.

[00:03:06] It's going to be crazy.

[00:03:08] So we'll see how I do in an interview on my job I wanted many years ago.

[00:03:13] Well, we thought actually it'd be a really good example of a job for high volume.

[00:03:17] So, and one that I've been talking a lot about.

[00:03:20] I'm waiting for you to tell me when to trigger.

[00:03:22] Okay, okay.

[00:03:23] Call, call me.

[00:03:24] I'm ready.

[00:03:25] Okay, let's do it.

[00:03:26] Let's do it.

[00:03:26] So this is going to be awesome.

[00:03:30] No pressure.

[00:03:32] Okay.

[00:03:32] Getting the call.

[00:03:33] It's coming from LA.

[00:03:35] Hi, I'm Sam, an AI recruiter from TalkPush.

[00:03:38] Am I speaking to Jeanette Leib?

[00:03:39] You are.

[00:03:40] Hi.

[00:03:41] Hi, Jeanette.

[00:03:42] I'm happy to have the opportunity to speak with you.

[00:03:44] I'm calling you because you applied for the truck driver position at TalkPush.

[00:03:48] How are you today?

[00:03:49] I'm great.

[00:03:50] How are you doing?

[00:03:51] I did apply for the truck driver position.

[00:03:54] I'm doing well.

[00:03:55] Thank you for asking.

[00:03:56] It's great to hear that you remember applying for the position.

[00:03:58] Would you like me to refresh your memory about the truck driver role,

[00:04:01] or do you have any specific questions about it?

[00:04:03] No, I'm good.

[00:04:04] I remember the job description.

[00:04:06] Perfect.

[00:04:07] I'd like to take a few minutes to learn more about you.

[00:04:09] Do you have a few minutes to continue the conversation?

[00:04:12] I do.

[00:04:13] Just a few minutes, though.

[00:04:14] Great.

[00:04:15] Just to let you know, this conversation will be recorded for recruitment purposes

[00:04:18] and to analyze the information.

[00:04:20] Are you okay with that?

[00:04:21] I am A-okay with that.

[00:04:23] Thank you.

[00:04:24] Let's get started.

[00:04:29] I'm not sure.

[00:04:30] I have a regular driver's license.

[00:04:33] I do.

[00:04:42] I've never tried to take it.

[00:04:45] Got it.

[00:04:46] Thank you for clarifying.

[00:04:47] Are you able to lift heavy loads?

[00:04:49] Yeah, I'm pretty strong for someone who's 4'10".

[00:04:53] Perfect.

[00:04:53] It's great to hear that you feel confident with lifting.

[00:04:56] What sparked your interest in applying for a truck driver position given your extensive

[00:05:00] executive leadership experience?

[00:05:02] You know, I just thought it'd be really fun to be out on the road and driving on the highway

[00:05:07] late at night.

[00:05:08] Like, I just think it'd be zen and just awesome.

[00:05:12] That sounds exciting.

[00:05:13] Thanks for sharing that.

[00:05:15] Have you undergone any route planning or logistics training?

[00:05:17] Or do you have experience in planning and executing delivery schedules?

[00:05:21] I mean, I'm a mom and an executive.

[00:05:24] So in terms of planning logistics of like for two kids and life, like extensive.

[00:05:30] I feel like I have a PhD in logistics, not an official PhD, but like a logistics PhD sort

[00:05:36] of type of life.

[00:05:38] Great.

[00:05:38] Your experience in managing logistics at home sounds valuable.

[00:05:41] Given your extensive background in executive leadership roles, how would you adapt your management

[00:05:46] and problem solving skills to the role of a truck driver, particularly in situations involving

[00:05:51] vehicle maintenance or compliance with DOT regulations?

[00:05:55] Ooh, that's a good question.

[00:05:56] Well, I'm really handy.

[00:05:58] So I would just learn everything.

[00:06:02] Noted.

[00:06:03] Being handy is definitely a plus.

[00:06:04] How do you envision utilizing your strong type management skills in a role that requires

[00:06:08] meeting tight delivery deadlines?

[00:06:11] Oh, I mean, life is all about deadlines.

[00:06:13] So I have a ton of experience with that.

[00:06:15] I would just draw on that.

[00:06:16] Perfect.

[00:06:17] It's great to hear that you have a solid foundation in time management.

[00:06:20] Can you describe any experience you have had with customer service in relation to logistics

[00:06:24] or transportation?

[00:06:26] Ooh, I don't know if I have so much in terms of related to logistics in that area, but I

[00:06:34] have probably a lot of transferable skills for my life as an executive.

[00:06:38] Understood.

[00:06:39] Your transferable skills could certainly be beneficial.

[00:06:41] Have you ever been involved in tasks related to loading and unloading cargo?

[00:06:45] If not, how do you plan to manage these responsibilities?

[00:06:48] I mean, again, being a mom of two kids with lots of stuff, they go to sleepaway camp and

[00:06:54] just getting them ready with the camp trunks.

[00:06:56] That's like a lot.

[00:06:58] So very similar.

[00:07:00] Great.

[00:07:00] It sounds like you have experience managing tasks related to cargo in your own way.

[00:07:04] How would you adjust from leading a company to following the policies and regulations as

[00:07:08] a truck driver?

[00:07:09] Well, I think whether you're leading a company or you're like in other positions, you got

[00:07:15] to follow the rules and there's processes.

[00:07:18] So whether you're leading or doing, it's very similar.

[00:07:22] Understood.

[00:07:23] Thank you for your insights.

[00:07:24] I appreciate your thoughtful responses.

[00:07:26] Thank you for taking the time to talk with me today.

[00:07:29] Do you have any questions before we wrap up the call?

[00:07:32] Yeah.

[00:07:32] I'm curious.

[00:07:33] What's the salary and pay like?

[00:07:36] That's a great question.

[00:07:37] For specific salary, asking a human recruiter at a later time, as I don't have the details

[00:07:43] on that.

[00:07:44] If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

[00:07:47] I think that's all.

[00:07:48] I'm good.

[00:07:48] Thank you.

[00:07:49] You're welcome.

[00:07:50] A human recruiter will reach out as soon as we have news about your application.

[00:07:54] I wish you the best of luck in your job search.

[00:07:56] Have a great day.

[00:07:57] Thanks.

[00:07:58] Okay.

[00:07:59] I mean, how did I do?

[00:08:02] Hi there.

[00:08:02] I'm Peter Zollman.

[00:08:04] I'm a co-host of the Inside Job Boards and Recruitment Marketplaces podcast.

[00:08:08] And I'm Steven Rothberg.

[00:08:10] And I guess that makes me the other co-host.

[00:08:12] Every other week, we're joined by guests from the world's leading job sites.

[00:08:16] Together, we analyze news about general niche and aggregator job board and recruitment

[00:08:21] marketplaces sites.

[00:08:22] Make sure you sign up and subscribe today.

[00:08:26] I've got my fingers and my toes crossed.

[00:08:29] I'm hoping you do not get the job, Jeanette, because that's going to spell the end of your

[00:08:34] podcasting career.

[00:08:36] Seriously.

[00:08:37] I'm going to be zen.

[00:08:37] You could podcast from the road, I think.

[00:08:39] I mean, I could.

[00:08:40] I could.

[00:08:41] Or from Hong Kong.

[00:08:42] From anywhere.

[00:08:44] I'm going to tell you in a few seconds how you did, but first I want to know how you

[00:08:48] think Sam did.

[00:08:50] Sam was great.

[00:08:51] Sam was friendly.

[00:08:53] She rolled with my crazy responses.

[00:08:55] And I think also just so for everyone, beforehand we did a test before in the green room.

[00:09:00] And I definitely threw some other crazy answers at her and said, hey, call me back.

[00:09:05] I have a meeting.

[00:09:05] And we heard her say, no problem.

[00:09:08] Have a great meeting, Jeanette.

[00:09:10] I'll call you back.

[00:09:10] So just that ability to understand what I'm saying.

[00:09:16] Yeah.

[00:09:16] This was not like an asynchronous interview.

[00:09:20] Like, clearly Sam understood what you were saying and the context.

[00:09:26] And that's light years ahead of, Max, what you would have been able to do 10 years ago,

[00:09:31] right?

[00:09:31] Yeah.

[00:09:32] 10 years ago was all scripted.

[00:09:33] And the advantage with non-scripted is obvious in a conversation like that.

[00:09:39] It allows you to have a two-way exchange of information.

[00:09:43] You know, you can ask any questions you want.

[00:09:46] It allows you to do a lot of things.

[00:09:47] Because, you know, when you imagine a recruiter on the phone, you imagine a human asking questions.

[00:09:53] But in fact, it does so much more.

[00:09:56] He's talking about the environment.

[00:09:58] He's coordinating what's going to happen next.

[00:10:01] You know, there's a lot that goes on.

[00:10:03] So being able to converse in a very contextual way is essential.

[00:10:10] And now with OpenAI and the other LLMs, you can feed the AI so much context in real time that it can really handle just anything you throw at it.

[00:10:22] Max, how did Sam know that Jeanette had executive experience?

[00:10:27] I just copy-pasted her background from LinkedIn into the platform.

[00:10:33] Okay, so if Jeanette had actually gone to, say, an ATS and applied to the job, then that same information would have been there.

[00:10:40] That would have been fed into Sam.

[00:10:42] And then she would have received an email that basically says, Sam is looking to interview you.

[00:10:47] Are you ready?

[00:10:48] Yeah.

[00:10:49] The state-of-the-art for this technology, for the voice AI technology, I mean, you've just gone through the election.

[00:10:56] So you probably received tons of robocalls already.

[00:10:59] And these calls are harder to handle because people are not expecting to receive a call.

[00:11:04] If you're expecting to receive a call and you're in the right mindset and it's not allowed environments, it's very easy to do this.

[00:11:11] So you can set it up so that as soon as somebody applies, the call comes in so they're in the right mindset.

[00:11:18] Or you can send them an SMS and ask them to trigger it, for example.

[00:11:21] I think what's good about the example we picked as well is a truck driver usually has the hands full.

[00:11:27] So to be able to apply by chatting on the phone without having to use your thumbs is a big plus as well.

[00:11:36] That is huge.

[00:11:37] It's a great point.

[00:11:38] I have the interview report if you'd like me to share the screen.

[00:11:42] Perfect.

[00:11:43] That was actually going to be my question.

[00:11:45] How did I do?

[00:11:47] Well, I regret to inform you.

[00:11:51] Here we go.

[00:11:52] Here's the grade.

[00:11:53] 2.5 out of 5.

[00:11:55] The candidate shows potential.

[00:11:57] Can you see my screen?

[00:11:59] So for those who are listening on Spotify, Apple, et cetera, what we're seeing right now is a report.

[00:12:06] Format is somewhat similar to a resume.

[00:12:09] And it says aspiring logistics enthusiasts.

[00:12:11] And it's got maybe a dozen bullet points.

[00:12:14] I love that.

[00:12:15] Aspiring logistic.

[00:12:17] I mean, they picked up the enthusiasm.

[00:12:20] Very cool.

[00:12:20] So it did pick up that you have no records, no license, no experience.

[00:12:27] No experience.

[00:12:28] And a small stature.

[00:12:30] I don't know how.

[00:12:32] Oh my God, that's amazing.

[00:12:33] Yeah.

[00:12:34] The candidate compares their experience as a mother and executive to having a quote unquote PhD in logistics.

[00:12:41] Which is like many people would attest that actually is true.

[00:12:47] True.

[00:12:47] And if I wanted anyone that has a PhD in logistics, I really apologize because obviously I don't.

[00:12:52] Yeah.

[00:12:54] This is amazing.

[00:12:56] So what we're seeing here as well, there was no configuration, as you know, because we just said it up before the call.

[00:13:02] And Sam decides what categories to rate the candidates on and then gives it a grade.

[00:13:09] And we got a 2.5 out of 5, which is usually not a passing.

[00:13:12] I like got some points on the board, but you know, not getting this job.

[00:13:16] I guess I'm kind of thinking that the future looks bright for the high volume hiring podcast in terms of Jeanette not leaving us for a better opportunity.

[00:13:26] I'm sorry.

[00:13:27] I'm a truck driver.

[00:13:28] And Sam was great at assessing my background for the job, which is not an exact match.

[00:13:36] So good job, Sam.

[00:13:39] You know what you should know?

[00:13:41] You should know the You Should Know podcast.

[00:13:44] That's what you should know.

[00:13:46] Because then you'd be in the know on all things that are timely and topical.

[00:13:50] Subscribe to the You Should Know podcast.

[00:13:54] Thanks.

[00:13:54] So that report, Max, does that get emailed to the recruiter?

[00:14:00] Yeah, that's in my inbox.

[00:14:01] And of course, we'd like for it to populate ATSs all over the world and basically to be used as another assessment solution.

[00:14:10] Yeah.

[00:14:11] But it takes on a new form.

[00:14:13] Yeah.

[00:14:13] And does the candidate get one or is that up to the employer whether the candidate gets a copy?

[00:14:19] Gen AI is a great opportunity to give candidates a level of feedback that they've never received before and to present it in a sort of positive light.

[00:14:27] As you can see, you know, Jeanette, as an enthusiast, it was able to highlight what was good about your application.

[00:14:36] Yes.

[00:14:36] And it would be able to give that feedback to you in a live way.

[00:14:41] You could say, oh, Jeanette, I really appreciate your enthusiasm and so on.

[00:14:44] And so the candidates can be told, this is the information that we've gathered and that will be passed on to the human recruiter and give it some feedback.

[00:14:54] So I think that it is a good time for all vendors, not just us, to use this technology to tell the candidates how they did in real time.

[00:15:04] Very cool.

[00:15:05] Thanks.

[00:15:05] I have another quick question.

[00:15:07] And I know we're kind of a little over time.

[00:15:09] So, Jeanette, if you've got anything else, then definitely let's have you chime in.

[00:15:13] But the question that I had, Max, is scaling.

[00:15:17] So how many of these interviews can Sam do a day for an employer?

[00:15:23] There's no limit.

[00:15:24] So Amazon warehouse, they could be interviewing like thousands and thousands of people a day.

[00:15:30] Sam can take that over.

[00:15:31] Yeah.

[00:15:32] The capacity that you buy in telco is number of concurrent phone calls.

[00:15:37] All you need is 20 concurrent lines to be able to handle something like 5,000 pre-screening interviews a day.

[00:15:44] And there are many companies that have hundreds of concurrent lines.

[00:15:48] So it does scale very nicely.

[00:15:52] And because of IVR, I mean, this technology is already 30 years old.

[00:15:56] Incredible.

[00:15:57] One thing I just wanted to touch on quickly, because we talked about it a bit beforehand, is the interview questions.

[00:16:04] So we just like, you just threw in the truck driver one.

[00:16:07] And we're like, ooh, the questions.

[00:16:08] Just maybe talk a bit about how did that work?

[00:16:11] Like, how did Sam come up with those questions?

[00:16:14] It just looked at the job description.

[00:16:16] I actually generated the job description minutes before by asking Google Gemini to create me a job description.

[00:16:22] I didn't proofread any of it.

[00:16:23] I just copy pasted it.

[00:16:25] And Sam will create questions based on that, looking at the skill gap between the resume and the job description.

[00:16:31] But what I realized is most employers aren't willing to just say, Sam, run with it.

[00:16:36] Because it's hard to relinquish control.

[00:16:40] Right, we've got to catch the control.

[00:16:42] Yeah.

[00:16:43] So usually people just want to impose their questions.

[00:16:46] And also what happens is when you're a job seeker, you apply to a lot of things.

[00:16:52] A lot of jobs every day.

[00:16:53] I think it's the average like 10 or 20 jobs you apply per day if you're an active job seeker.

[00:16:59] And so you don't really pay that much attention to all the prerequisites.

[00:17:04] You apply to a lot of things.

[00:17:07] And, you know, if there's a form, you say yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[00:17:09] You know, because you just want to move on to the next round.

[00:17:13] So a lot of these phone calls that are happening in the recruitment world, you're not really collecting new information.

[00:17:21] You're just checking that the information you collected the first time around is correct.

[00:17:25] So I think there's, you know, it's legitimate, you know, to write the questions, even if you already have the information for a lot of employers.

[00:17:32] Because they just want to check that the person is consistent and didn't just click a box and they actually have the thing that they're supposed to have on their background.

[00:17:39] I love that. Like, I don't know what kind of driver's license I have, clearly.

[00:17:44] But Sam knew. She was like, I'm not sure you have that or not.

[00:17:48] So that's awesome. That's very cool.

[00:17:51] Well, Max, thank you so much. This was a super fun episode.

[00:17:55] We are so thankful on Thanksgiving to have you.

[00:17:59] I see what you did there.

[00:18:00] This is exciting, really exciting.

[00:18:02] Speed is so important in high volume.

[00:18:06] And this allows employers to get back to candidates at scale in minutes.

[00:18:11] And rather than having to wait for a recruiter to be available in 10 days.

[00:18:15] Fantastic.

[00:18:16] Thank you again.

[00:18:17] Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

[00:18:18] And until next time.

[00:18:21] Thanks for having me.

[00:18:22] Good stuff.

[00:18:23] Cheers.

[00:18:24] Take care.