The Impact of Ambition on Burnout with Julia Arndt of Peak Performance

[00:00:10] Hey, this is William Tincup and Ryan Leary, and you are listening, hopefully watching, the You Should Know podcast.

[00:00:17] Today we have Julia on, and we're going to be talking about the topic of practical tactics for avoiding burnout.

[00:00:24] And like, I think this episode is going to be...

[00:00:26] Yeah.

[00:00:27] This is going to be a personal therapy session for me.

[00:00:30] 100%.

[00:00:31] 100%.

[00:00:31] I'm just putting it out there, letting everybody know.

[00:00:34] Did you come with questions?

[00:00:35] I surveyed the audience, and the audience gave me a list, a long list of questions.

[00:00:43] So I'm just asking for a friend.

[00:00:46] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:00:46] No, not for yourself.

[00:00:47] Totally understand.

[00:00:49] Julia, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself and your company?

[00:00:53] Yes, of course.

[00:00:54] I'm super excited to be here today.

[00:00:57] Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:59] My name is Julia Arndt, and I'm originally from Germany.

[00:01:02] I always start with that because people are always like, where's the accent from?

[00:01:06] Which I am not able to hide.

[00:01:09] Nor should you.

[00:01:11] Nor should I, right?

[00:01:12] That makes me even more unique in my own ways.

[00:01:15] I've lived in five different countries over the last, gosh, it's about 16 years now.

[00:01:23] I've been in the US for 10 years, and before that, I lived three years in France, three years in Dublin, Ireland.

[00:01:30] And then I spent some time in Australia and the UK as well.

[00:01:35] Wow.

[00:01:35] And yeah, it's been a great ride.

[00:01:39] What I do today, my company is called the Peak Performance Method, and I help successful and aspiring, well, ambitious, that's the word I was looking for.

[00:01:50] Ambitious professionals help to find the success that they want sustainably over time without burnout.

[00:01:57] So I focus on burnout prevention practices, but most importantly, I created a method that's called the Peak Performance Method that is a systematically structured approach with different habits and routines that I help people build in order to sustain their performance over time without stress and burnout.

[00:02:17] So is burnout...

[00:02:19] This is a dumb question, but I'm going to ask it again.

[00:02:22] Is burnout inevitable?

[00:02:24] It's a good question.

[00:02:27] When you're an ambitious professional, you might feel like it's inevitable.

[00:02:32] Right.

[00:02:33] I do believe that it is, you know, evitable and that you can learn things.

[00:02:38] And that's actually one of the biggest things that's super important for me and why I do this education with a lot of people, because I truly believe that we never learned what burnout actually is and how we can avoid it and how we can make it inevitable.

[00:02:54] And so here I am trying to educate as many people as possible and support as many organizations as possible to help really be more on the forefront and more on the preventive side of burnout instead of just tackling it once it's already there.

[00:03:41] Right.

[00:03:43] It's designed by the World Health Organization.

[00:03:44] It is a syndrome related to high stress at work.

[00:03:48] And there are different symptoms that people experience.

[00:03:53] And it's actually a great question because if I may, I'll actually explain a little bit why we do experience burnout.

[00:04:00] So when we are constantly working, our brain is in this focus mode and our brain was actually designed to focus and think 24-7.

[00:04:09] The prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that's responsible for thinking and planning and working all day long has super limited capacity.

[00:04:17] And if we push that...

[00:04:18] Yeah.

[00:04:19] And for men, it's even less, right?

[00:04:20] It's just...

[00:04:21] Yeah.

[00:04:21] Because it doesn't develop until later.

[00:04:24] But I have that right.

[00:04:25] It doesn't fully develop.

[00:04:26] Yeah, that's correct.

[00:04:26] Yeah.

[00:04:27] It doesn't develop until 18 or so.

[00:04:29] Some men...

[00:04:29] Some men...

[00:04:30] Some men...

[00:04:30] Some men...

[00:04:30] Some men...

[00:04:30] Some men...

[00:04:33] I remember someone telling me that.

[00:04:34] It's like for men, it's later.

[00:04:38] They said much later than that, but later.

[00:04:41] So anyhow.

[00:04:42] Yeah.

[00:04:43] Don't quote me on that for sure.

[00:04:44] It could be even up until 25 or so.

[00:04:46] Yeah.

[00:04:48] But yeah, so what basically happens when you're constantly under this high level of stress,

[00:04:53] because you're putting your brain under stress to perform, even though it's not designed to perform 24-7,

[00:05:00] you put all of your main bodily functions at minimum functionality,

[00:05:05] your immune system, your cardiovascular system, your digestive system.

[00:05:09] And so when we talk about burnout, which is experiencing high levels of stress over a longer period of time,

[00:05:16] we start to see symptoms and signs that people are under high stress all the time.

[00:05:23] And it is usually related to those three main bodily functions, immune, cardiovascular, and digestive.

[00:05:30] So people might experience migraines.

[00:05:33] People might constantly be sick.

[00:05:35] You know, that's already kind of the more severe symptoms, right?

[00:05:39] Digestive issues, cardiovascular issues.

[00:05:41] But there's also these early warning signs.

[00:05:44] So, you know, just feeling fatigued and having a hard time to focus.

[00:05:47] So there's definitely both mental and physically related symptoms.

[00:05:51] And what's super interesting is that 90%, 9-0 of all doctor visits are nowadays stress related.

[00:05:59] Wow.

[00:06:00] Yeah.

[00:06:01] That seems really high.

[00:06:02] I never would have guessed that.

[00:06:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:05] Yeah.

[00:06:05] Well, because it's the other systems.

[00:06:08] So if not stress by itself, it's because you're putting stress on those other systems.

[00:06:15] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:16] Yeah.

[00:06:18] How much of this is self-inflicted?

[00:06:20] And I mean this to say companies put you under stress, but we all have our own working definition of stress.

[00:06:30] Yeah.

[00:06:30] And our own personalized definition of stress, right?

[00:06:33] So we put stress, I need to get this done by so-and-so.

[00:06:38] The company never told me I need to get this done by then.

[00:06:40] Like, I'm putting myself under the stress, which is self-inflicted.

[00:06:45] Yeah.

[00:06:45] It's a great question.

[00:06:47] It's actually exactly what my TEDx talk is about.

[00:06:50] Between the responsibility between the corporation and the individual.

[00:06:55] Right.

[00:06:56] Because just to give some statistics, 44 million Americans quit their jobs in 2023 and 3.4 million Americans quit their jobs in January of this year alone.

[00:07:07] Why do you think they're leaving their job?

[00:07:09] Why do I think that they're leaving their jobs?

[00:07:13] I'm going to say.

[00:07:15] Yeah.

[00:07:16] Go first.

[00:07:17] It's like a drum roll in my head.

[00:07:18] So the silence is the drum roll.

[00:07:21] I'm going to say lack of trust in an employer and chaos in the work environment.

[00:07:31] Like making them come back to return to office and things like that.

[00:07:34] Okay.

[00:07:35] I'm going to go with they just got tired and just the risk reward of work in the way that they thought of work.

[00:07:46] They reconceptualize what could be work and just said, yeah, enough of that.

[00:07:52] Turn the page on that chapter of my life.

[00:07:54] I'll do this.

[00:07:55] Still going to make money.

[00:07:57] I'm going to just do something in a different way just because I don't know if it's – I don't trust.

[00:08:03] I'm just not going to do that anymore.

[00:08:05] Okay.

[00:08:06] Okay.

[00:08:06] So how far off are we?

[00:08:08] I feel like we're really far off.

[00:08:10] I'm sure those are absolutely also reasons why people leave their job.

[00:08:16] That's very nice.

[00:08:18] Very nice.

[00:08:19] So nice.

[00:08:20] That was a really nice way of saying it.

[00:08:22] You just patted me on the head.

[00:08:24] Yes.

[00:08:24] That's nice.

[00:08:26] That's an answer.

[00:08:27] That was a cute answer, William.

[00:08:31] Cute answer.

[00:08:32] I love how supportive you are.

[00:08:36] Yes.

[00:08:36] So 43% of people – 43% say that they're leaving their jobs because their work environment is overly stressful.

[00:08:45] Oh.

[00:08:46] So their awareness – their awareness of what they believe is stressful in their workplace.

[00:08:53] They say it's stressful, but I think it's actually interesting because I do believe, and I do not know this number, that many of the people make their organizations responsible for their high stress.

[00:09:04] That's right.

[00:09:05] That's right.

[00:09:05] And so the question of like is it self-inflicted or does it come from the organization?

[00:09:10] I think a lot of people still make the organization or their employer responsible for how they feel.

[00:09:16] They kind of point the finger outside of them.

[00:09:18] It's an easy out.

[00:09:20] It's an easy out.

[00:09:21] It's an easy out.

[00:09:23] It's their fault.

[00:09:23] It's always easier.

[00:09:24] Totally.

[00:09:24] It's always easier than to look inside and say, no, actually, I'm the one that's creating this stress.

[00:09:30] And I do actually believe that it's us, that it's our habits and routines that we've oftentimes developed over decades that bring us into the state of constantly saying yes to everything and not managing our time and not setting boundaries and all that kind of stuff.

[00:09:49] So how, maybe try, let's go with me on this story here.

[00:09:54] Yeah.

[00:09:55] So pre-pandemic, we had a very rigid work schedule.

[00:10:02] We knew what it was.

[00:10:04] Get up in the morning, go to work, go to the office, take a break, take a lunch break, go home, see your family, make dinner, eat dinner, watch some TV, go to sleep.

[00:10:13] Whatever that routine was, you knew what that was.

[00:10:16] Pandemic hits, that gets changed, right?

[00:10:18] All of that gets thrown away.

[00:10:20] Post-pandemic, work still happens.

[00:10:24] But we picked up bad habits throughout the pandemic, right?

[00:10:29] Whether it's watching too much TV, eating different types of foods, bedging out on the couch, taking advantage of nap time instead of work time.

[00:10:37] Things that we've built bad habits.

[00:10:40] So we didn't go to the gym.

[00:10:41] We didn't get exercise and go outside and go for walks.

[00:10:45] We were staying inside and we just felt really bad habits.

[00:10:50] That hasn't changed.

[00:10:51] But the work environment is now changed.

[00:10:54] They're asking us to come back to the office.

[00:10:57] They're asking us to engage more.

[00:10:59] They're asking us to come back to pre-pandemic levels of work and schedules of work.

[00:11:06] Is that playing into this?

[00:11:09] Have we picked up those habits during this period?

[00:11:12] And is it really kind of skyrocketing what we're seeing now?

[00:11:16] Yes.

[00:11:17] You have picked up probably a couple of bad habits during the pandemic, but I think it's way before that.

[00:11:23] There's actually really interesting research out there that suggested that at the beginning of the pandemic,

[00:11:28] we saw a spike in productivity because people were at their home constantly on and they were constantly even more on because they wanted to prove that they are on.

[00:11:38] So they were always available and always responding.

[00:11:40] But we also saw a significant increase in burnout.

[00:11:43] Right.

[00:11:44] Because of that.

[00:11:45] Because they were always on.

[00:11:46] They're always on.

[00:11:48] When I think about my burnout that I had in 2018 and how I got there, this is when I was 10 years old and my first goal was to become an A grade student from a B and C and D grade student.

[00:12:02] And I started to learn habits to become that A grade student.

[00:12:06] And that gets extrapolated because then you go into college and then it gets even harder to get good grades and to shine.

[00:12:14] And so then because I'm already in this ambitious state of mind of like, I can do this and I want this and so on and so on.

[00:12:21] And then I got to Google.

[00:12:23] I worked at Google for seven and a half years.

[00:12:25] And you're all of a sudden surrounded by the best and brightest and smartest people.

[00:12:30] And well, you want to stay on that level with them.

[00:12:35] So you work during the weekend and you work until late at night and you work until you take on extra projects in order to get the next promotion.

[00:12:44] Did our employer ask us for that?

[00:12:47] No.

[00:12:48] It's decisions that we're making because we think that that's what we need to do or that's what we want to do to thrive.

[00:12:58] But it's oftentimes the opposite of it.

[00:13:02] So is there causation correlation?

[00:13:04] Is there a relationship between ambition and burnout?

[00:13:09] Yes.

[00:13:10] And what is that relationship?

[00:13:13] I think, and I might be biased because I work with a lot of high achievers, but I do see obviously a lot of high achievers burnout.

[00:13:22] So people that aren't as ambitious for whatever reason, good, bad, or otherwise, they aren't as ambitious.

[00:13:28] They don't run the risk as much of burnout.

[00:13:32] Yes.

[00:13:33] There's actually statistics on that as well.

[00:13:35] Are they happier?

[00:13:37] You have to define happy.

[00:13:37] The people without burnout?

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:40] Yeah.

[00:13:41] Well, again, it seems like that would make sense.

[00:13:44] Or at least that would track if they're not under that stress, self-inflicted or otherwise.

[00:13:50] And they would live happier lives.

[00:13:53] It's kind of like the conversation, at least for me, around you can make $500,000 a year.

[00:14:01] You're working 80, 90, 100 hours a week, and you're unhappy as hell.

[00:14:07] You can make $50,000 a year and work 40 hours a week and be extremely happy, have a nice family at home, and you're happy working and going home.

[00:14:18] Right.

[00:14:19] And you're okay with that, and you're not burning out because you're managing your life.

[00:14:26] You're there, you're within your 40 hours, and then you have your family time as opposed to the person who's making $500,000, $600,000, $700,000, who has the stress of 800 employees on their backs, on their shoulders.

[00:14:40] They're responsible for their paychecks.

[00:14:41] So I think there's definitely a correlation there, and I've seen it both ways.

[00:14:47] There's also something to be said about eustress and de-stress.

[00:14:50] Have you heard about that?

[00:14:52] Yeah.

[00:14:52] So like how I actually perceive stress.

[00:14:55] So if I perceive something to be challenging but in a positive way, that stress is actually not going to be as harmful to me, which is the eustress.

[00:15:06] Then if I feel like it's all too much and it's all getting too overwhelming.

[00:15:14] Yeah.

[00:15:14] And that's the de-stress.

[00:15:15] So if I perceive the stress as negative, it's going to have a negative effect on me.

[00:15:20] Shocking.

[00:15:20] Self-fulfilling.

[00:15:21] Self-fulfilling.

[00:15:23] Right.

[00:15:23] If I see it as negative, it turns out it is negative.

[00:15:27] The positive, if something's motivating me and it's in a positive way, I'm not even sure it's classified as stress.

[00:15:34] I mean, we say stress, but a certain level of stress isn't bad.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:41] Especially if it's positive.

[00:15:42] Yeah.

[00:15:43] And I'm saying that because I do believe that there are people and I have seen people out there that make a million dollars a year.

[00:15:50] Right.

[00:15:50] And I think they manage their stress extremely well and they love running a team of 30, 40, 50, 800 people.

[00:15:58] And they can manage that stress.

[00:16:00] Right.

[00:16:00] And then there are others that can't.

[00:16:02] And I think, honestly, for me, it always goes back to the habits and routines that they have developed that actually support that level of professional skills.

[00:16:13] They consume it in a different way.

[00:16:16] This is kind of what I'm getting.

[00:16:18] It's like processed sugar.

[00:16:19] They consume it in a different way.

[00:16:21] And so it doesn't impact them as much, doesn't shut down all their other systems in a way that it would if you don't have those good habits.

[00:16:31] They've learned to take care of themselves in between those high stress times.

[00:16:36] They know that down times are equally as important as the high times.

[00:16:42] 100%.

[00:16:43] Ryan was making fun of naps earlier.

[00:16:45] I'm a napper.

[00:16:47] That's why I was making fun of.

[00:16:49] That's not not working.

[00:16:53] In fact, I do some of my best thinking when I'm napping.

[00:16:59] So if I were staring at a computer, it's true.

[00:17:02] If I were staring at a computer, especially there's a diminished return, right?

[00:17:07] At a certain point, you can stare at something long enough to where you're not getting anything out of it.

[00:17:12] Yeah.

[00:17:13] It's better to walk away.

[00:17:14] And again, riding a bike or walking or doing something that you love, you can come back to it and get more out of it than still staring at it.

[00:17:26] I think some, especially in America, I think we're taught for a very young age to just stick with it, even though it's a diminished return.

[00:17:36] Yeah.

[00:17:37] Just see it through.

[00:17:38] Stay there.

[00:17:38] See it through.

[00:17:39] Yeah.

[00:17:39] This is the clean plate club.

[00:17:41] This is why we have an obesity priority.

[00:17:44] He's like, we're taught, but you got to finish everything on the plate.

[00:17:47] And other people in other countries are not taught that.

[00:17:51] Eat until you feel like you're full and then stop.

[00:17:53] I stuff it in.

[00:17:55] Oh, yeah.

[00:17:56] Well, that's what most Americans do.

[00:17:59] I got to finish it no matter what.

[00:18:01] I'll finish yours if you leave it on your plate.

[00:18:03] That's just a poor habit.

[00:18:05] We were taught poor habits.

[00:18:06] It's a bad habit.

[00:18:07] Yeah.

[00:18:07] And we have it changed.

[00:18:08] So what are some of the other things that people can do to create good habits?

[00:18:16] So there's a mix of things that I think increase stress and then that people can create in order to diminish it.

[00:18:24] And the biggest factor that I've seen that actually surprised me myself when I started all this research and all this introspection, because I already mentioned I burned out in 2018, was time management.

[00:18:38] So, you know, we talk about yoga and meditation or naps.

[00:18:42] Like, I do believe that those are all important things.

[00:18:45] And I had a yoga practice three to four times a week and I would come back to work and feel just as stressed as before.

[00:18:52] Right.

[00:18:52] I would run from meeting to meeting, answer emails in between, try to please everybody and get my work done until late at night.

[00:18:59] And so one of the big eye opening things was, well, in order to even create space for meditation or for a nap, you need to manage your time better and you need to start prioritizing better.

[00:19:12] So that's a really big, big thing in my life today and the life of my clients.

[00:19:19] Like really prioritize, like thinking about what do you actually need to do that day before you jump into just being in reactive mode all day long.

[00:19:28] Right.

[00:19:28] Being in meetings, answering emails and answering requests from other people to really just connecting yourself for even just two minutes before you start your work day and ask yourself,

[00:19:37] what are actually the top two to three things that I need to get done today to feel like when I've done that, I actually feel accomplished and I know that that's what I needed to do.

[00:19:47] It makes a huge difference.

[00:19:48] Sounds super simple.

[00:19:50] Yeah.

[00:19:51] Try it out.

[00:19:52] It sounds simple.

[00:19:53] It's not simple.

[00:19:55] No, it's not.

[00:19:55] If done well, one of the things that I learned about time management is you have a value or perception of your time and you let others have a value or perception of your time.

[00:20:07] And if you don't value your time, others will value your time.

[00:20:14] And so something as simple as scheduling, you know, Ryan's great at this actually.

[00:20:20] Instead of scheduling an hour call, it's a 15 minute call.

[00:20:23] If we need more time.

[00:20:25] Great.

[00:20:26] If we don't, we have that time back in our schedules.

[00:20:28] A hundred years ago, I did this exercise with an agency that I ran is I made everyone at the agency.

[00:20:37] At the beginning of the week, so this would be Monday morning, let's say, plan the week in our buckets.

[00:20:45] Just plan the week.

[00:20:45] What do you need to do?

[00:20:46] What do you want to do?

[00:20:47] What do you want to achieve?

[00:20:48] Okay.

[00:20:48] Do this bit in our bucket.

[00:20:50] So the entire 40 hours, hour by hour.

[00:20:53] What are you trying to do?

[00:20:55] What do you want to do?

[00:20:56] What do you think is going to happen?

[00:20:57] All that stuff.

[00:20:58] And then at the end of the week, go back and reflect on what did you actually do?

[00:21:04] So you got to kind of keep notes along the way of what you did.

[00:21:07] And then the reckoning, if you will, or the reconciliation is on Friday.

[00:21:12] So we did that for two months.

[00:21:15] And then I said, okay, this is great.

[00:21:18] You're starting to get an idea of what you're using your time for, where your time's being spent.

[00:21:22] Good.

[00:21:23] Now go to 30 minute increments.

[00:21:25] And so now break things down by a 30 minute increments so that you understand, okay, what needs to happen to this for about two, three months.

[00:21:32] And then I broke it down.

[00:21:33] I made them broke it down by 15 minute increments for the entire week.

[00:21:37] Wow.

[00:21:38] And to a person, every single person that went through that exercise with me, they manage their time differently than normal human beings.

[00:21:53] Because they've been through this arduous process of understanding where time gets sucked out of their schedule and where they need to apply themselves.

[00:22:04] But that was, I mean, I just did it off the cuff.

[00:22:06] I completely made that shit up.

[00:22:08] But I did it with the idea of like, just we need to, we, all of us, Prince Victorian, we need to understand like, how do we spend our time?

[00:22:29] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:30] It's crazy because I'll get texts and emails from people that are like, I still use that.

[00:22:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:35] I still use that bit.

[00:22:37] Not as rigorous as I once did, but I use it as a way of understanding why did I get to the end of the week and not do the things that I want to get done.

[00:22:46] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:48] It's like, well, because you're reactive.

[00:22:50] You're going from meeting to meeting.

[00:22:51] You're doing all these other things.

[00:22:53] You were busy, but you weren't effective.

[00:22:55] Did you accomplish anything?

[00:22:56] Right.

[00:22:57] Yeah.

[00:22:57] Right.

[00:22:57] Exactly.

[00:22:58] Julia, do you see trends?

[00:23:00] You work with a lot of high performers, right?

[00:23:02] That's your focus.

[00:23:04] Do you see trends that lead to success in avoiding burnout versus those that fall into the burnout category?

[00:23:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:23:15] People that protect their time, that are not afraid to say no and like really weigh, like really take this extra second or two to think,

[00:23:24] is this actually important?

[00:23:26] Does it actually happen?

[00:23:27] Does it have to happen right now?

[00:23:29] Do I clarify with the person what's actually the urgency on this?

[00:23:33] Like what is the deadline?

[00:23:34] Because I think we always have this expectation of I need to do it all right now.

[00:23:39] Right?

[00:23:40] Exactly, William.

[00:23:41] Yeah.

[00:23:42] So I think people that are succeeding are the people that do both.

[00:23:46] Like the time management setting boundaries piece of saying no and respecting their own time and their own well-being.

[00:23:54] And then that also have really completely times where they completely disconnect, where they exercise or they are fully present with family.

[00:24:03] And they have really learned that habit as well.

[00:24:05] I think those are, for me, the three big things.

[00:24:08] It's time management setting boundaries, self-care.

[00:24:11] And they all go hand in hand because if you don't have time, you're not going to have self-care.

[00:24:17] Or if you always say yes to everything, the first thing that's going to fall off your calendar is your self-care time because that's the easiest time to remove from the calendar.

[00:24:25] Right?

[00:24:27] So, yeah, those are the three things.

[00:24:30] Yeah, it seems, well, it seems, again, this could be important if someone's setting a meeting, for example.

[00:24:38] This could be important, but I don't need to be in that meeting.

[00:24:43] Yeah.

[00:24:43] So while, like, it's the difference between importance and critical or important and critical.

[00:24:48] Like, something's important.

[00:24:49] But is it critical for me to be involved?

[00:24:52] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:53] And people will assume that they have to be involved.

[00:24:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:59] It's like, oh, well, that's really important.

[00:25:01] I need to be involved in that.

[00:25:02] It's like, do you?

[00:25:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:04] So it's almost like you've got to filter through.

[00:25:08] Something can be important, but you don't have to be involved in it.

[00:25:10] It's a refreshing feeling not to have to be involved.

[00:25:13] Right?

[00:25:13] I'm not going to lie.

[00:25:14] I mean, like, we've both been there.

[00:25:16] Right?

[00:25:16] I mean, we've both been there where we would be in group meetings together.

[00:25:21] It would be William, myself, and, like, 10 other people.

[00:25:24] And I'm left scratching my head.

[00:25:26] Why the hell am I here?

[00:25:27] Yeah.

[00:25:28] Like, why am I here?

[00:25:28] I don't need to be here.

[00:25:30] Not that I'm too good to be there.

[00:25:33] Because there's a culture of saying yes.

[00:25:35] It's a culture of saying yes.

[00:25:36] And those people on the call.

[00:25:38] There's a culture of doing meetings instead of sending an email.

[00:25:42] Right.

[00:25:42] Right.

[00:25:43] Yeah.

[00:25:44] But throughout the entire call, I have a lack of presence.

[00:25:49] Right.

[00:25:49] Because I'm thinking, these people are significantly better at this than me.

[00:25:54] This is why they're here.

[00:25:55] Right?

[00:25:55] This is why we asked them to join the company.

[00:25:58] Right.

[00:25:58] Right.

[00:25:59] I don't need to be here.

[00:26:00] I'm just going to screw it all up.

[00:26:02] And I know that.

[00:26:02] And I disengage.

[00:26:04] Now I waste my time.

[00:26:05] I waste their time.

[00:26:07] And it's, yeah, no good.

[00:26:09] Well, you're not really wasting their time.

[00:26:10] You're definitely wasting your own time.

[00:26:12] You're definitely wasting my time.

[00:26:13] I think there's a concept of multitasking that I don't subscribe to.

[00:26:20] I don't believe you can do two valuable things at the same time.

[00:26:25] You could do maybe things that aren't valuable.

[00:26:28] Like I can rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time.

[00:26:32] But if you're trying to actually do two valuable things, I just don't think you're robbing Peter to pay Paul in that sense.

[00:26:40] And so I think a lot of people say yes to meetings, but they're not present in the meeting because they're doing email or they're texting somebody or they're doing social or they're doing something else.

[00:26:50] And again, some of that might be things that they need to do to decompress.

[00:26:56] But they're still they still got to look at the camera and they still got to act like they're there when they're not there.

[00:27:01] So I like the idea, Julia, of protecting your time and understanding you need to protect your time.

[00:27:09] And you also need to have time in your schedule for you.

[00:27:12] And there's actually research as well about multitasking.

[00:27:15] I don't know if you've seen.

[00:27:17] There's really interest.

[00:27:18] There's some really interesting graphics that show, you know, you have one task.

[00:27:23] So your whole brain is lit up and then you have two tasks and you take half the brain.

[00:27:27] So half the brain focuses on one thing.

[00:27:28] The other half focuses on the other thing.

[00:27:30] And then if you have three tasks, you actually just see two pieces lit up.

[00:27:35] So multitasking is kind of this like old belief.

[00:27:40] But yeah, you can't multitasking is an old myth.

[00:27:45] No, no.

[00:27:47] It's it's in our world.

[00:27:49] It's like marketing a company and marketing a product.

[00:27:53] You've just split the marketing budget into two.

[00:27:56] You now have the half of it or a portion of it needs to be for the company and half a portion of it needs to go to the product.

[00:28:04] Same thing with your brain.

[00:28:05] Your brain, you know, it's just it's again, if you're doing valuable things.

[00:28:10] I do.

[00:28:11] I do put that in there because, again, things that aren't valuable.

[00:28:14] Yeah, you do a couple of those.

[00:28:15] I can listen to music, do email.

[00:28:17] Right.

[00:28:17] All right.

[00:28:18] Yeah.

[00:28:18] Right.

[00:28:19] Of course I can.

[00:28:20] Probably both those aren't valuable.

[00:28:25] But what are the what are the tactics?

[00:28:27] What are the things to to Ryan's point earlier?

[00:28:29] What are the what are the things that you give advice to your clientele around?

[00:28:34] Especially what I'm really curious about now is like the audit process.

[00:28:39] Like to find out where they are on some type of continuum or spectrum on and to find out where where are you and what tactics do they need at that particular moment?

[00:28:51] Hmm.

[00:28:52] Good question.

[00:28:54] There's a couple of different ways how I think about it.

[00:28:57] And then maybe I'll just share two.

[00:28:59] And one exercise that I like to do with people and that I like people to think about is the question around what's your early warning sign?

[00:29:06] So what is the sign that your brain actually is disengaged and you are not really focused anymore or you are experiencing high levels of stress?

[00:29:15] It could be I feel I'm focused.

[00:29:16] It could be my stomach hurts.

[00:29:19] It could be my eye is twitching.

[00:29:22] It could be I'm feeling a lot of tension in my neck.

[00:29:24] Right.

[00:29:24] Like like sitting down and just really thinking about what are my signs because everybody's signs are different.

[00:29:30] What are my signs that I need a break?

[00:29:32] And then becoming more aware.

[00:29:34] Like this is the first step of the awareness.

[00:29:35] Right.

[00:29:35] Right.

[00:29:36] Naming those pieces that are actually causing are actually like showcasing that my body is under stress and my brain is under stress.

[00:29:44] And then having quick tools to counteract that.

[00:29:48] So when I know I'm jumping from tap to tap and I'm actually not doing any work anymore, I'm super unfocused.

[00:29:54] I'm not getting anything done.

[00:29:56] It would be a lot more advice to actually step away and for 10 minutes go walk outside or have a glass of water or close your eyes.

[00:30:06] Take a couple of deep breaths.

[00:30:07] There's all different.

[00:30:08] Again, there's all different kinds of things that you can do.

[00:30:11] Again, I think they're very individual.

[00:30:13] It's not that everybody loves to go for a walk.

[00:30:15] So choose something that actually feels right for you.

[00:30:18] If you love naps, William, it's great.

[00:30:21] Naps have a super powerful impact on your brain and helps refresh your brain, especially when you take 15 to 20 minutes.

[00:30:29] So that's one way to do it.

[00:30:31] So really looking at your early warning signs and creating more awareness around when am I actually in that space.

[00:30:36] I think time management is a great one that you mentioned.

[00:30:38] But the other second thing that I want to share is I have a burnout assessment.

[00:30:44] I think that it really helps people as well to create awareness around what does it actually mean that I'm burned out?

[00:30:51] And so they can go through this assessment and they'll probably be already surprised by the questions because it's things like, you know, how often do you feel disengaged during the day at work?

[00:31:05] Like how passionate are you about the work that you do?

[00:31:07] Do you feel disconnected from it or do you feel really excited about what you're doing?

[00:31:11] Do you see an impact, right?

[00:31:13] Things like that.

[00:31:15] And then based on that assessment, again, it's an awareness building exercise of, okay, where am I actually at?

[00:31:21] You can then start to take action.

[00:31:24] But it's always that, you know, it always goes back to habits and routines.

[00:31:29] And so a question that I also now really like to ask is the question, what are the habits and routines that contributed to you feeling this way?

[00:31:41] And then, you know, as we were talking about leaving the job or like changing jobs, the question could be, what are the habits and routines that you think will improve because you accept another job?

[00:31:51] Or are you just going to take those habits to the new job?

[00:31:54] And oftentimes people do.

[00:31:56] Right.

[00:31:57] Yeah, of course.

[00:31:58] Yeah, they just continue on with it.

[00:32:00] Yeah.

[00:32:01] Yeah.

[00:32:03] So as I'm listening, and this is all great information because I'm, as you're saying it, right, I'm like, oh, yeah, I do these 35 things.

[00:32:11] Like I get that.

[00:32:14] For me, maybe if I'm looking at this the wrong way, tell me, if I take care of myself on the personal level, work aside, does that fix the issue with burnout at work?

[00:32:25] So not necessarily using work as my starting point and preventing burnout from work, but just focusing on myself, whether it be health, diet, exercise, family time, sleeping, whatever that is.

[00:32:40] So that I'm not burning out when three of my kids, well, not three of the three would say I only have three that come home from school and daddy, daddy, daddy.

[00:32:50] Like, oh, I'm working.

[00:32:52] Oh, I'm on a recording.

[00:32:53] Like, if I take care of that, does that make work better?

[00:32:58] Or do I need to look at it from a work perspective if I'm in a, if I'm a professional working?

[00:33:03] You have to look at both.

[00:33:05] I believe.

[00:33:06] Because you are a whole human being.

[00:33:08] You're not just work and you're not just personal.

[00:33:11] And so I do believe that having great, you know, eating routines, sleeping routines, exercise routines that has a significant impact on how you show up.

[00:33:22] But if you're still terrible at managing your time and saying yes to everything, there will still be stress.

[00:33:31] And that will most likely then affect your sleeping routines and your eating routines and your exercise.

[00:33:37] I think it's all a cycle.

[00:33:38] I think it's all interconnected.

[00:33:40] I haven't seen a person that's incredible at their, you know, personal tools and then just has a problem at work.

[00:33:52] Like, it all spills into each other.

[00:33:54] You can't disconnect it from each other.

[00:33:58] Ryan, your point, though, of where do you start, I think it's you start with it all.

[00:34:04] Understanding your time is probably, for me, probably one of the best ways to start this process.

[00:34:10] It's to understand where the hell am I spending my time and why.

[00:34:16] And then, again, deconstructing that.

[00:34:19] And then, again, then figuring out some of the things that I need to do to counteract that.

[00:34:24] Julia, I have a quick question.

[00:34:26] Can I say one thing before you ask the question?

[00:34:28] Yeah, of course.

[00:34:29] I don't want to overwhelm the audience so they don't have to do it all right away.

[00:34:33] Oh, you're creating a lot of stress.

[00:34:34] Julia, you're creating a lot of stress for people right now.

[00:34:36] This was supposed to be my therapy session.

[00:34:38] Let's make that really, really clear.

[00:34:41] I went from a therapy session to, like, banging my head against the wall.

[00:34:44] Thank you, Julia.

[00:34:45] Damn it, I'm doing it all wrong.

[00:34:46] I'm doing it all wrong.

[00:34:48] One step.

[00:34:49] Like, what is one thing, as you're listening to this, where you're like, this is something, you know, we've gave a lot of different examples.

[00:34:55] What is one thing that resonated with you?

[00:34:57] Is it the time management piece?

[00:34:59] Is it the setting boundaries piece?

[00:35:00] Is it just looking at your morning routine?

[00:35:03] What is just one thing that you can start doing differently?

[00:35:07] And we're aiming for, like, a 2% improvement, 1% improvement versus 100% improvement.

[00:35:14] Because I think, especially right with, like, those ambitious professionals, they are, in general, generally, they are perfectionists.

[00:35:23] They try to do it all.

[00:35:24] If they can't do it all, then they don't do anything at all.

[00:35:26] And I think that mindset needs to shift, too.

[00:35:29] It's one thing.

[00:35:30] So, Ryan, can I ask you, Ryan, what is one thing, as you're hearing all of these things, where you feel like that's one thing I could do?

[00:35:37] There you go.

[00:35:39] Let's do it.

[00:35:39] You know, it's funny.

[00:35:41] Literally, as you were talking, I was thinking, this is honestly what I was thinking.

[00:35:47] Do I want to go to the gym in the morning?

[00:35:50] Because I go every morning.

[00:35:53] Yeah, but you don't want to go in the morning.

[00:35:54] I've done it out of, well, yeah, well, that's what I kind of, like, I've done it out of habit because it's always been the best time of day for me to go.

[00:36:03] But it's a stressor.

[00:36:04] I get up in the morning.

[00:36:05] If I'm up 15 minutes late, shit, can I make it?

[00:36:09] Can I get back on time for school duties, you know, to get the kids off to school?

[00:36:13] So, if I'm not exactly on time, I then get into a battle.

[00:36:18] Do I go, eh, maybe I'll just walk around the block.

[00:36:21] And if I literally have this conversation, then the kids are really stressed.

[00:36:24] Which is pretty stressed.

[00:36:25] Yeah, the kids are half ready for school at that point, and I still haven't gone out of bed because I'm having this conversation.

[00:36:30] So, literally, as you were talking about that, Julie, I was thinking, well, maybe I just get up in the morning and I decompress.

[00:36:37] I watch the news, not that that's decompressing, you know, but I do so.

[00:36:41] Have a coffee, sit down, do nothing, just enjoy the morning, quiet, do the school thing, and then do my walk or then go to the gym and then come back.

[00:36:51] And I think part of that is because it's always been, it's been banged into my head since I've started working a long time ago, 8 o'clock.

[00:37:02] Be at your desk at 8 o'clock because that's when I always started, it was 8 o'clock.

[00:37:06] And so, if I'm not there at 8 o'clock, I feel as if I'm not actually working.

[00:37:12] I'm cheating.

[00:37:13] Yeah.

[00:37:14] It actually, and so it's interesting you asked that because that's what I was thinking.

[00:37:18] Like, maybe I do just go to the gym at 8.30 and I start at 10 o'clock.

[00:37:23] Like, you know, we have that opportunity.

[00:37:27] Yeah.

[00:37:27] Thank you for sharing that.

[00:37:28] That's so important.

[00:37:30] Flexibility is so important, right?

[00:37:32] Like, we think certain things are, and that's where kind of these like limiting beliefs and mindset is playing into this as well, right?

[00:37:40] But you're saying, right, my belief system was at 8 o'clock I have to be at my desk.

[00:37:45] And now, you know, we're opening this up and we're like, well, what if you could actually be flexible?

[00:37:50] What if?

[00:37:51] And you communicate to the people I'm available at 10 o'clock.

[00:37:55] It does not make you less productive.

[00:37:57] That's the thing.

[00:37:58] No.

[00:37:59] Yeah.

[00:38:00] Well, so what if?

[00:38:00] You're guarding your time.

[00:38:02] I'm telling you now, Julia said it's okay.

[00:38:05] Don't call me before 10 o'clock.

[00:38:07] Hey, here's the deal.

[00:38:08] I'm central.

[00:38:09] I'm already an hour behind you.

[00:38:10] So you're good.

[00:38:11] Yeah.

[00:38:11] It makes me in no way.

[00:38:13] Yeah.

[00:38:13] I was just going to, yeah.

[00:38:14] Yeah.

[00:38:15] So Julia, two things real quick.

[00:38:17] One is for years I've told people that we've, stress is inevitable in the sense of you're always going to be under some level of stress.

[00:38:32] Caveman times, we were under stress.

[00:38:34] Don't be eaten by the dinosaurs.

[00:38:36] Got it.

[00:38:37] Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

[00:38:39] You know, there's some level of stress with all of those things.

[00:38:42] Because now there's stress.

[00:38:45] And in whatever way we want to define it, I think the idea of getting rid of all stress, personally, I don't believe you can get rid of all stress.

[00:38:55] Yeah.

[00:38:56] I think it's more of a management of stress.

[00:38:59] Yes.

[00:39:00] Keenly aware of understanding what does cause you stress, what doesn't cause you stress, et cetera.

[00:39:06] So is stress in a way that people kind of talk about it in popular media, is stress the enemy?

[00:39:16] No.

[00:39:17] So I fully agree with you.

[00:39:19] I don't believe when people say, here's my stress-free method to whatever.

[00:39:25] I don't believe that.

[00:39:27] For $9.99.

[00:39:29] Yeah.

[00:39:30] I don't believe that.

[00:39:31] And I'm so glad that you're bringing this up.

[00:39:35] Neuroscientifically, again, I'm talking about the brain because I find it really helpful to understand the brain.

[00:39:40] Your brain is designed.

[00:39:42] You don't even have power over that to be so fast in making decisions.

[00:39:47] When things in your environment change, when something is different to what you're used to, your brain is like, ooh, what's happening?

[00:39:54] What's going on?

[00:39:55] That's why, you know, especially in these last four or five years with the pandemic and all that stuff, change has such a significant impact on our brain and on our stress levels.

[00:40:06] Because when things change in the environment, when you're starting a new habit and you're doing something out of the ordinary, Ryan, and you're going to start going to the gym at 8.30 instead of 7.30 or 7, your brain is going to be like, what the heck?

[00:40:20] Why are we doing that now?

[00:40:21] Now, here are 15 different reasons why you should definitely not do that.

[00:40:25] That's your brain trying to keep you safe.

[00:40:28] And that puts stress.

[00:40:29] And even that internal conversation that you shared with us, that's stress.

[00:40:33] So being aware of that and being mindful of that that's happening and that's okay.

[00:40:38] And that's just your brain trying to protect you.

[00:40:41] That is the power to then be like, I'll still do it.

[00:40:45] That's the power of I'm going to do 1% instead of 100% because it's way less scary to your brain than when you try to completely change your whole life.

[00:40:56] And so, yeah, I don't believe in stress-free.

[00:40:59] We need stress and we need stress.

[00:41:01] There's actually a stress performance curve.

[00:41:04] If you haven't heard about that before, look it up on Google.

[00:41:08] Just type in stress performance curve.

[00:41:10] And it actually shows that when you have zero stress, you can't perform.

[00:41:16] You actually need a certain level of stress in order to be in the zone of peak performance and to be at your best.

[00:41:26] And there's actually something.

[00:41:29] Yeah, sorry.

[00:41:30] No, no, go ahead.

[00:41:30] The rest is not going to.

[00:41:32] Well, yeah.

[00:41:33] So there's actually a zone.

[00:41:35] So there's the peak performance zone.

[00:41:36] And then if you have too much stress, you know, we basically think, right?

[00:41:40] Like if this is like the graph, we think that stress just goes up.

[00:41:44] So if we do more and we have more stress, it will just be more performant.

[00:41:48] But it's actually a bell curve.

[00:41:50] So the more stress you have, you won't be more productive.

[00:41:53] It actually goes down.

[00:41:54] And that's super important.

[00:41:56] And that's when you go into the burnout state, in that burnout zone.

[00:41:59] Ryan, you were going to ask a question.

[00:42:01] Yeah.

[00:42:01] Oh, I've lost that question.

[00:42:02] That's gone.

[00:42:05] He's burned out.

[00:42:06] I'm burnt out already.

[00:42:09] Well, this is – so when you were – when I was – you were talking previously, Julia, and I was thinking of, oh, the whole gym conversation.

[00:42:18] I completely disengaged from this conversation.

[00:42:22] You could have asked me any question.

[00:42:24] And I would have said, William, you take that.

[00:42:27] Right?

[00:42:27] 100%.

[00:42:28] Right.

[00:42:28] Because I got into this inner monologue and conversation back and forth.

[00:42:33] It's really interesting.

[00:42:34] Which is healthy.

[00:42:36] Which is actually healthy.

[00:42:37] Maybe not in the middle of a recording.

[00:42:39] No, no, no.

[00:42:40] It's healthy.

[00:42:40] Again, these things happen for a reason.

[00:42:44] Yeah.

[00:42:45] It's just healthy.

[00:42:46] Yeah.

[00:42:46] Yeah.

[00:42:47] Julia, this has been amazing.

[00:42:49] And fun.

[00:42:49] Thank you so much for your time.

[00:42:50] And fun.

[00:42:51] And fun.

[00:42:51] Same.

[00:42:52] Thank you.

[00:42:52] And I think the audience will get a lot out of this.

[00:42:54] I know I have and Ryan has.

[00:42:56] So thank you for carving out time for us.

[00:42:59] Thank you.

[00:42:59] Thank you.

[00:42:59] Thank you.