Up Next @ Work, Episode 13 with Lighthouse Research & Advisory

[00:00:13] Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Up Next at Work. I'm your host, Jean Achille,

[00:00:21] and I am honored to introduce our guest today. Our guest is Ben Eubanks of Lighthouse Research

[00:00:30] and Advisory. I won't do justice to all that Ben has contributed to this industry, so I'm

[00:00:36] going to ask him to please tell us about himself and about Lighthouse Research. Ben, welcome.

[00:00:43] Jean, I'm so glad to be here with you. It's great to see you and look forward to sharing

[00:00:47] some things hopefully today that are helpful, that are inspiring, and that are educational

[00:00:51] for the listening audience out there. So the really quick about me is I wanted to be in HR

[00:00:57] when I was a kid, even before I knew what it was called. So I got my degree in HR, worked

[00:01:01] in the field for a couple of years, and got into the research side. And the only thing I

[00:01:04] found out that I love more than HR itself is doing the research on it. So as you mentioned,

[00:01:09] I'm the Chief Research Officer for Lighthouse Research and Advisory, and I spend my days looking

[00:01:13] at either the technology market, who's out there, what they do, what the differentiators are,

[00:01:17] how that can help all of our friends in the employment community solve their big problems,

[00:01:21] as well as producing original research across talent acquisition and learning and compensation,

[00:01:26] all these different areas that my friends who are doing the hard work of HR every single day

[00:01:30] are trying to figure out how to solve these problems. And I love being able to bring them some real data

[00:01:34] some evidence, some strategy based on what other organizations are doing or what the workforce

[00:01:38] is looking for to help them accomplish their goals. So that's the big, kind of the big rocks for my to-do

[00:01:44] day to day. I'm beyond that. So I'm a dad with four and a half kids working on adopting number five

[00:01:50] right now. So trying to get that one wrapped up. Yes, that's an exciting time. And I'm an author of a

[00:01:56] couple of books. I love to speak. I love to share and have a couple of other things that I do during

[00:02:00] the year as well, like HR summer school, where we, we bring HR leaders together to inspire them about

[00:02:05] the future of this. Yeah, I was, I was looking at your t-shirt as the hashtag just, yeah, there you

[00:02:10] go. It comes into view. What is HR summer school? Tell us what that is. So back in 2020, all of us

[00:02:18] probably try to black that out that time, but not our best year. I had just landed in California,

[00:02:24] Jean. And I turned my phone on and there's a voicemail. It says, Hey, California is closed.

[00:02:29] The event we were speaking at is done. Go home. And I was, what does this mean for the next few

[00:02:34] weeks? So the first time ever on my schedule, I had four weeks of planned travel for events and

[00:02:38] things that was just open. And I know a lot of our friends were stuck at home. We were stuck at home,

[00:02:43] nowhere to go. And so I thought what would be encouraging? So I pulled together that first year,

[00:02:48] every speaker I could think of everyone I tapped on the shoulder, let's get together and just

[00:02:52] share and educate and be helpful and put together the first summer school. And now every year since

[00:02:58] we get together in June, it's virtual event. And it's really, it's parts education. You're going to

[00:03:04] learn something new. We're going to stretch you out as a, as a leader and give you some opportunity

[00:03:09] to grow, but we're also going to lift you up and remind you that, yes, this is hard, but if no one,

[00:03:15] if you're not going to do it, who else will? And so we're trying to make sure and encourage the

[00:03:18] community as well and bring that piece of it and really not miss the opportunity to cheer for the

[00:03:24] great work that's being done every day. You and I talk to leaders all the time that are

[00:03:27] accomplishing things that are incredible and they're focused on getting to the next thing.

[00:03:32] And I'm like, hold on a second, let's just celebrate that for a second. And that's what

[00:03:34] really the event's meant to be. And they don't get, you know, they don't get that level of

[00:03:39] recognition. They don't get to celebrate the moments because things come at them so quickly.

[00:03:45] I mean, when you were talking about your research, your roster of research, you're talking about

[00:03:50] comp, you're talking about recruiting, you're talking about, I mean, you know, your average HR

[00:03:57] professional, unless they're at a very large company and they're, you know, focused in a very

[00:04:02] niche way, most folks in, let's say the mid-market companies, they're wearing multiple hats at any

[00:04:08] given moment. You know, they might be in their TA hat at 10 and by 10, 15, you know, fielding,

[00:04:16] you know, a PTO request followed by onboarding a new employee. So, so how, how does your HR summer

[00:04:25] school kind of address their need for knowledge? How, how is it presented?

[00:04:31] Well, as you said, a lot of these mid-market and small organizations say, Hey, what is your budget

[00:04:36] for learning for employees? They'll give you a number. What's your budget for learning for the

[00:04:39] HR team? And they give you a blank look. Like, what do you mean?

[00:04:43] Oh, that's, that's painful right there.

[00:04:46] No, I know. My goodness. The, the metaphor for that, like, listen, your performance as an HR team,

[00:04:52] as a function is there's always been a lid on that. And if we can do something to educate them,

[00:04:56] we're going to lift that lid a little higher. Like let's get a little bit higher with, let them have

[00:04:59] a higher limit of what they can accomplish. And so for those leaders, yes, the topics range across

[00:05:04] everything you can imagine, we had the VP of HR for Habitat for Humanity Philadelphia talking about

[00:05:09] how they got their managers involved in competition transparency this year. One of the number one

[00:05:14] sessions we did was having a CFO come in and say, okay, listen, when I say it's not in the budget,

[00:05:19] here's what I really mean. And HR.

[00:05:22] It means ask again.

[00:05:24] Well, HR is like the Rosetta Stone of how to get your projects funded in the business. And so often

[00:05:29] I talk to leaders and I know you do too. You're talking to these leaders who are doing things that

[00:05:33] you're like, that's incredible. And other times they have ideas that are amazing and they're not

[00:05:38] quite able to get those to the starting line, get funded to the starting line because they don't know

[00:05:43] how to position it, how to sell it. And so things like that help them do that. So for me, it's part

[00:05:49] of it is like, you got this, you can do this. Yeah, it's hard. We're acknowledging that keep going.

[00:05:53] Right.

[00:05:54] But at the same time, I want to give them some practical, helpful things. If I'm just cheering you on,

[00:05:59] but not giving you the tools you need, then eventually that motivation is going to run out

[00:06:03] and you're going to stall out. So I want to make sure they have the things when they're motivated.

[00:06:07] I want to have the things to go and put an action and practice to make that impact.

[00:06:10] That's so important. You know, one of the frustrations that we hear expressed by HR professionals

[00:06:16] is like, Hey, the vendor community hits me up every day with, you know, the, whatever the latest

[00:06:22] buzzy technology is. Have you heard about AI, Jean?

[00:06:26] Yeah.

[00:06:26] Have you heard about AI?

[00:06:27] Wow. Is that an Apple product? You know, like, they're so overwhelmed by all of this. So,

[00:06:36] so like they know what their problems are they're trying to solve. These, these vendors come at them

[00:06:42] with supposed solutions, but what no one really addresses, but I think you are, is like,

[00:06:49] how I put this in play in my organization, how I look at bringing this all together in,

[00:06:56] under my unique circumstances, because, you know, I always tell people one thing about HR is it is

[00:07:02] as every organization's needs are as unique as every person in that workforce. Um, and, and there's no

[00:07:10] way to think, Oh, we could just, you know, rubber stamp this here it is. But, you know,

[00:07:15] it just doesn't work that way years ago. It did. I mean, because we're, we're grateful. We even had

[00:07:20] payroll processing, but you know, we are way beyond that now.

[00:07:25] It's funny because I was talking to someone the other day and I said, listen, when you get this

[00:07:29] sense sometimes, and you and I both have lots of friends who are in the vendor community too. So I'm

[00:07:34] very careful never to beat them up.

[00:07:35] Oh yeah.

[00:07:36] Too much, right?

[00:07:36] They're just doing their job.

[00:07:38] I get closer. It's so I can, you know, give them a hug. So I can say, Hey, do this better. But

[00:07:42] uh, the thing that gets me is sometimes they are approaching some of our, some of the buyers out

[00:07:46] there, some of the employers out there with this, with this, um, solution as you're pointing out.

[00:07:52] And like, listen, the people you're talking to oftentimes don't have the authority to buy a

[00:07:57] bunch of post-it notes to their office. They've got to get a thumbs up from someone, some sign off for

[00:08:01] that. Why in the world would you think they can sign off on a 1500 or, you know,

[00:08:06] right. A three-year light software license. Yeah.

[00:08:08] So remember that while this person may have an incredible title, there's so much bureaucracy

[00:08:14] within the organization and navigating that is critical. I was talking to a leader from United

[00:08:19] Health Group a little while back and she said, listen, my secret superpower is cutting red tape.

[00:08:24] Like that is what I do. That person is in demand everywhere. If you can find someone to navigate

[00:08:29] through all the maze and get it done.

[00:08:30] That's interesting because that, that, that's going to be my segue. Uh, I'm going to put you

[00:08:37] on the spot on this one. That's kind of my segue into skills-based hiring. So where do you find

[00:08:42] that I cut through red tape skill on a resume or a CV or, you know, when you're looking for that

[00:08:49] unicorn out there? It's like, like, are we getting too granular about skills-based hiring? Like,

[00:08:57] are we, are we taking this? Is the pendulum swinging too far?

[00:09:01] You know what? That's a great question. And I don't know that there's a specific thing,

[00:09:06] a metric you can look for. Um, obviously we can go ask chat GPT to write a resume for us. That

[00:09:11] makes us look like we're cutting through some red tape. But for leaders like that, again, it's the,

[00:09:16] the hard part is that's not in a job description. That's a, that's more of a mentality. So I was

[00:09:21] interviewing, I was interviewing the head of people for, um, Milo's sweet tea company today,

[00:09:28] which was, I was so thirsty after talking to him. And one of the things that came up in that

[00:09:31] conversation was he said, we're looking for people that have this, um, attitude where they're, they're

[00:09:36] open, they're willing to learn, they're willing to, but they're also hungry. They're not content all

[00:09:42] the time. Fire in the belly. Yeah. Some fire in the belly for someone, for someone to do what you

[00:09:48] have done with your, with your, um, agency gene, like that doesn't happen to someone that's sort

[00:09:54] of laid back. That's just going to sit back and see what happens around them. They're like,

[00:09:58] darn it. We're going to make some things happen like it or not. And that's the kind of person

[00:10:01] you're looking for. Now you've got to be careful. That person also isn't the one that has the behavior

[00:10:05] or the attitude that chafes everyone around them. Like, uh, oh, here comes the troll maker again.

[00:10:10] But, uh, there's a, there's a phenomenal HR leader named Jill Kapanis and she does a talk

[00:10:15] called we need more troll makers in HR. And I love that picture of, yeah, we may have to make the

[00:10:22] rules, but we should be the first ones that are saying, is that really necessary? Do we really

[00:10:26] need that one back on those things instead of just holding to them and adding those layers of

[00:10:30] difficulty for people to get things done in the business? Yeah. I love this. I love this. I agree.

[00:10:36] I think that, um, disruptors as I like to call them have their place in, in the world. And,

[00:10:43] and I never see disruptors in HR, uh, maybe, maybe on less than one hand in my entire career,

[00:10:50] have I seen, you know, it's more of the kumbaya personality who, and, and that has its place.

[00:10:56] You know, you want to foster collaboration. You want to have a conflict free workforce, but you

[00:11:02] know, it's that disruptor who sometimes by the way is not the right person to stay in that role or

[00:11:08] at that company. You know, they kind of come in, they do their thing and then they're not the right,

[00:11:14] you know, person to take it to the next level because to your point, they chafe,

[00:11:20] you know, it's like a constant friction source of friction. So, but it has its place. I think.

[00:11:27] It's, it's one of those things where you've got to turn the heat up enough so that there's

[00:11:30] some urgency, but not so hot that you boil everyone. You've got to make sure that they're like,

[00:11:35] getting warm. Let's take action. Not this got so hot. All of a sudden I'm just frustrated. I can't

[00:11:39] know what to do. Yeah. For anyone out there listening, by the way, if you know someone who

[00:11:45] fits in Jean, let's get Jean. Yes. Okay. So someone who is one of the disruptors who's the

[00:11:50] innovator, who is pushing the limits of what's possible. Drop that one in the comments of

[00:11:54] wherever you're listening to the show or share this show out there on your favorite social channel and

[00:11:58] let them, you know, drop it in there and give that person a kudos, but they don't even know that

[00:12:01] you appreciate them for that, for that feature or for that capability, but it's a good, good

[00:12:06] thing to do. Isn't that, that's true. That's the other thing is, you know, as you were talking

[00:12:10] before about HR, I was thinking about when you're on an airplane, they tell you to put your mask

[00:12:15] on first. Heaven forbid that thing ever come out of the ceiling, the oxygen mask, but, but

[00:12:21] that's what HR doesn't do. Like they never take care of themselves first. They, they are

[00:12:27] so focused on making everyone else's lives easier. So can I tell you that I hate that phrase?

[00:12:36] Is that okay to admit here? Like, Oh, of course.

[00:12:40] Well, here's why though. Here's why. And I think you'll appreciate it once I share. So

[00:12:44] the, the connotation there, they only tell you that, Hey, listen, when things are about to basically end

[00:12:48] when it's all over, when things are terrible and looking worse, mask on before you put on someone

[00:12:53] else, I get the sentiment and I understand that. And I definitely will before I take care of my

[00:12:57] children on a plane. I got that. But in the work context, HR, they have, they don't have this heart

[00:13:03] of it's all coming down. I'm just gonna try to save myself first. They have this heart of service,

[00:13:07] this heart of concern and care of people around them. And so instead of doing the metaphor for a mask,

[00:13:13] there's this religious ceremony where you take a cup and you pour into it until it's completely full.

[00:13:17] And then you keep pouring until it's running over and visualize that I can't serve from an empty cup.

[00:13:23] And I love that metaphor more so because it fits with the heart and the spirit of so many of HR leaders

[00:13:28] that I've met and had the honor of knowing in my own career as an HR, as an HR leader, it's one of those

[00:13:33] things that makes them stand out. I'm like, listen, I love my friends in finance. I love my friends who are

[00:13:38] in marketing. I love all of you. I appreciate you, but you don't get to have the same impact in someone's life.

[00:13:43] When HR is like, listen, we've got this benefit. And someone's like, oh gosh, you know, my, I just found out

[00:13:47] my spouse has cancer. You're like, hey, we've got you covered. Yeah. To have that moment of connection

[00:13:52] with someone is so powerful. Yeah. You are really impacting people's lives. And, and I don't say that

[00:13:59] to be trite about it. Like even I'm currently writing an article for a client on financial wellness

[00:14:08] and it's amazing. You know, we assume that everyone understands how to apply for a mortgage or how to

[00:14:15] balance their checkbook or how to apply for a credit card. And oh, that 24% interest is not what you want

[00:14:23] to be, you know, carrying from month to month. We assume everyone knows that. A lot of people don't

[00:14:29] know that. And a lot of people, especially early in their career, you know, they're not up to speed on

[00:14:35] that stuff. And I love how something like a financial wellness benefit can really make a

[00:14:42] difference for someone who needs the support, but also needs kind of the guardrails, like so that

[00:14:50] they don't wind up, you know, in debt for the next 20 years or something. It truly is amazing.

[00:14:56] Hey, it's Bob Pulver, host Q podcast, human centric AI, AI driven transformation, hiring for skills and

[00:15:02] potential dynamic workforce ecosystems, responsible innovation. These are some of the themes my expert

[00:15:09] guests and I chat about, and we certainly geek out on the details. Nothing too technical. I hope you

[00:15:14] check it out. Hey, everybody. I'm Lori Rudiman. What are you doing? Working? Nah, you're listening to a

[00:15:21] podcast about work and that barely counts. So while you're at it, check out my show, Punk Rock HR,

[00:15:27] now on the Work Defined Network. We chat with smart people about work, power, politics, and money.

[00:15:33] Are we succeeding? Are we fixing work? Eh, probably not. Work still sucks, but tune in for some fun,

[00:15:39] a little nonsense, and a fresh take on how to fix work once and for all.

[00:15:44] I need you to go back two minutes. You mentioned this thing called a checkbook.

[00:15:49] Hold on a second.

[00:15:50] I'm showing my age. Now, the reality is- I told my girls to write one the other day,

[00:15:55] because they write me even than I do. I'm like, write this check out for me. We had to

[00:15:58] take care of something. So I'm with you on that one. I just had to throw that in there.

[00:16:01] The reality is, so I'll tell you where this comes from. The reality is, I haven't written a check

[00:16:07] in years and I had to write one recently for the business because we had like a check got lost in

[00:16:12] the mail and they're like, well, Jean has signing capabilities. So, and I'm like, where does

[00:16:18] everything go again? I was really struggling. I'm strictly, you know, I was one of the-

[00:16:23] Take the checkbook out, blow the dust off the top.

[00:16:24] Yeah, right. I was, I have always been one of the first people to say, why isn't this available

[00:16:31] digitally? I have no desire to have any more paper in my life than I do. And, and, and I'm fascinated

[00:16:40] by how those fundamentals though, can be very helpful to you in terms of framing other activities.

[00:16:48] So I was kidding, but I completely-

[00:16:50] I know you're kidding, but you're right. You're right.

[00:16:53] So that topic around, around financial wellness. So I had the privilege of speaking with the founder

[00:17:00] of a company called Hot Chicken Takeover and anyone listening now may be-

[00:17:03] You're making me hungry here now, Ben. You said sweet tea before and now we're in hot chicken.

[00:17:08] The whole combination.

[00:17:10] And one of the things they do is they do a lot of fair chance hiring. And so he's like,

[00:17:14] I'm going to put this in place. He said, after a couple months in, I asked my person over HR,

[00:17:19] like, why is no one signing up this 401k? I thought this was the important, like everyone

[00:17:23] told me how to have this. I said, we have people that are not able to get to work because they're

[00:17:28] taking public transport because they don't even have a car yet. They're just transitioning back

[00:17:31] to life. And so they changed their financial wellness benefits to say, we'll do a matching

[00:17:36] program for you to save for your first car. We'll help you learn the basics of how to invest

[00:17:41] so that you do have a future down the line. But we know right now you just need to take care of

[00:17:45] today. And so we started looking at those things like you were talking about to help them do the

[00:17:49] basic blocking and tackling from financial perspective that many of us take for granted

[00:17:53] so that they could set themselves up for success in the future. And he said that that was my biggest

[00:17:57] lesson learned when he's like, they don't, they don't need it. They're not ready for it yet.

[00:18:02] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so, I mean, you know, I know talking about Maslow's hierarchy

[00:18:07] is something that we, we try not to keep swimming back to, but we all do.

[00:18:11] Bring it on us. I'm a nerd person from psychology. Let's do it.

[00:18:13] We all do. And, and you're right. I can remember in like my first job calling out because I didn't

[00:18:22] have money for the train. And, and I think back to those days and I'm like, wow, you know,

[00:18:29] I don't come from a background where like I could have said to my mother and father,

[00:18:33] give me money. You know, it just wasn't something you did, but yeah, what you're just talking about,

[00:18:38] like if someone was talking to me about 401k, I'd be like, I haven't gotten to point A yet,

[00:18:44] much less point F, you know? So yeah, you gotta, you gotta crawl before you run.

[00:18:50] Absolutely.

[00:18:51] Yeah. Crazy, crazy. One of the things that has always impressed me so much about you, Ben,

[00:18:57] is you actually have written books and I can't even find time to read books. So, so I remember you

[00:19:05] did the AI for HR book, like before anyone else was talking about it. And now your latest is about

[00:19:13] talent scarcity, which I think a lot of people don't realize that things like our, our drop in

[00:19:20] the birth rate. And, you know, there are a lot of factors, economic factors that are in play that

[00:19:25] we're not as aware of as we should be. Tell me what it's like to, to write a book and why,

[00:19:31] why are you doing this? Especially with almost five children now and your own business.

[00:19:39] Goodness. So the reason why is I think some things are more than a one hour talk. Some problems we're

[00:19:49] trying to solve are more than you're going to get in that, that quick keynote session. And so I needed a

[00:19:53] way to tell these stories at a deeper level. I kept hearing from leaders all the time. You do a lot

[00:19:58] of listening. Like I do just hearing all these stories and looking for themes and trends. And

[00:20:02] when I kept hearing people say, Hey, listen, I went to a restaurant. It was half empty. I was excited

[00:20:07] about sitting down and having a dinner with my, my spouse or something to get other. And like, no,

[00:20:11] it's only 45 minutes. We don't have enough staff to staff. So we're, we're, you know,

[00:20:15] and I'm like, okay, why is that happening over and over again? And like, that's a microcosm of this

[00:20:19] bigger problem around talent scarcity. Like those sorts of things come up and like, I've got to tell

[00:20:23] the story of why this is. And honestly, I didn't know all of the stories. I tried to weave all of

[00:20:28] that in, pull the data together and really get into the why, but then get to the what to do next.

[00:20:34] And the thing that gets me, um, I don't know if I should admit this or not, but when we do research,

[00:20:40] the thing that keeps me up sometimes and just bugs me, cause I don't know what the answer is,

[00:20:44] is we always leave so much of the data on the shelf. We never get a chance to use it.

[00:20:49] There's so many ways to cut and slice and dice it. And you're, I'm writing a report right now on

[00:20:54] caregiving and taking care of either elder care or parents or grandparents or taking care of our

[00:20:59] kids and how that affects frontline workers. And as I'm doing that, I'm pulling some new data

[00:21:03] from research we did about a year ago. And I'm like, these things are incredible stats that I never

[00:21:09] once have seen the light of day. And so it gives me a chance to share some of those things and

[00:21:12] breathe new life into it. That's great. I mean, I think the other thing that your books, um, uh,

[00:21:18] accomplish is it's not just the data, it's the putting the data in a context that becomes actionable.

[00:21:26] Um, I think a lot of HR professionals that we speak with are frustrated by, and, and, you know, years ago,

[00:21:34] there was no data. Then all of a sudden there was a tsunami of data. And then everyone was kind of

[00:21:41] like creating their own views of data. And, and I would even say to clients, you know,

[00:21:47] you really don't want to report on this on the board level. Like, this is not a good number to

[00:21:53] like keep, you know, trying to sustain here. Exactly. Family feud does a hundred Americans at least.

[00:22:01] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Like let's look at, at what's a statistically sound sample here. Um,

[00:22:08] but, but, you know, again, going back to that, like, how do I put this into action? What does this

[00:22:13] mean to me and my organization? Um, not everyone's a large enterprise. Not everyone has a big HR

[00:22:21] department. In fact, I'm quite surprised sometimes when I speak with HR professionals and they tell me,

[00:22:27] yeah, we're a department of three, you know, and I'm like, wow, like, look at all you are tasked

[00:22:32] with doing and you're three people. That's crazy. The, the reality when you're at that, that's, uh,

[00:22:41] if you're, you know, small HR team for a large organization or, you know, the ratios are kind

[00:22:46] of off like that. You end up just being a firefighter. You're always putting out fires.

[00:22:50] You're never getting to actually a fire prevention plan. There's no strategy to it. It's just what

[00:22:54] other problem is coming up and how can I address that as quickly as I can? Cause I know there'll be

[00:22:57] another one right behind that. The picture you painted earlier of I've got this investigation.

[00:23:01] I'm closing today. Oh, post that rec. Wait a minute. Someone asked the benefits question.

[00:23:04] Oh my gosh. The CEO needs to know the data on this. Right. Right. That's an entire saying it out loud.

[00:23:10] That's a high burnout. That's a recipe for high burnout in, uh, in your, uh, HR department. That is

[00:23:16] tough. That is tough. You know, so, so, uh, full disclosure, we, to our audience, we do record

[00:23:24] our podcasts in advance and this particular episode is going to hit the streets. Uh, just,

[00:23:30] just as we're turning into 2025. So I would be remiss Ben, if I didn't ask you, especially given your

[00:23:37] role in the industry and knowing how much evidence you have in terms of, of data trends, um,

[00:23:46] do you have predictions? Are you someone who makes predictions?

[00:23:50] So I go back and forth on the whole prediction thing. I can tell you what the data are showing us

[00:23:54] and what sort of things that seems to indicate, but I'm always cautious about the whole future of

[00:23:59] work thing, because I can guess anything for five years from now. And when it gets here,

[00:24:03] it'll be something different anyway. So it's, and no one ever remembers what those were.

[00:24:06] I was going to say who can remember.

[00:24:09] Yes. Yes. It goes so quickly. So I'll tell you a couple of things really quickly. Um, obviously

[00:24:14] anything that doesn't talk about AI to some degree is, is, is a miss. Uh, one of the things I wrote

[00:24:20] about this week on LinkedIn that I think is a different perspective on that. That's compelling.

[00:24:25] That's, I think it's compelling is there's new research coming out from the university of Toronto

[00:24:29] and other organizations that say things like, uh, when someone goes to chat, GBT or Claude or whatever

[00:24:35] tool they're using and asked a bunch of questions and uses that as their work product, they are reducing

[00:24:40] their creativity. The experiments show that person is less creative after the fact. Yeah. And so that thing,

[00:24:47] the reason that concerns me as I've talked to all of my friends in HR and anyone listening to the sound

[00:24:51] of my voice right now, could you be less creative at work? I mean, that would be a challenge.

[00:24:57] If you were taking away your creativity intentionally, you're sacrificing that for speed. So that's one of

[00:25:01] the things I'm talking about. How do we get the most without sacrificing some of those things that,

[00:25:06] that we can't afford to lose. So, um, AI is a, is what went through everything. And the third edition

[00:25:11] of the book on AI is coming out later next year. And it's a, it's a chance to tell some of the

[00:25:16] new stories around that and hopefully briefed on this topic. Um, you mentioned skills-based hiring

[00:25:21] earlier, anything around skills as well. AI and skills are sort of paired together because we,

[00:25:25] the technology now allows us to see and understand skills at a deeper level than ever before. But I'm

[00:25:30] talking to a lot of employers that are saying, listen, the resume is not a perfect picture of

[00:25:35] what people can do. It doesn't tell us everything about like, listen, if Ben is one of those people

[00:25:40] that doesn't work well on teams and don't talk to him, not on Tuesday morning, which is

[00:25:44] there's 30 copies written on a resume anywhere. So we're talking about who the person is.

[00:25:49] Yeah. And that's critical for us to know about them on a skill level. So some of the skills tools

[00:25:53] are needing to get more robust and employers are looking for ways to validate and prove those.

[00:25:57] And then I'll throw one more ad to you that I think is, that is also evident in the data.

[00:26:02] When we asked TA leaders this year at 1200 global organizations, they said out of all the things

[00:26:08] in the TA ecosystem that they could, they could be prioritizing onboarding was number one.

[00:26:13] And why that's interesting. This comes up, this is almost like cyclical. It comes up every several

[00:26:19] years. Like, I know, I know it's like we get it buttoned up and then it sort of falls to the

[00:26:23] way. Exactly. Again, I think part of it is we've spent so much time, money, and effort on the candidate

[00:26:29] experience, making that great. And we get an offer accepted from someone and then they don't show up

[00:26:35] on day one. And we see those things that doesn't happen every time, obviously, but when it does,

[00:26:39] like, Oh my gosh, what could we have done to continue that high touch? You know? Yes. Yeah.

[00:26:45] Into the employee experience. And that's where onboarding is the link there to connect those

[00:26:48] dots and make sure someone is, is going to stay the data we have on the workforce, by the way,

[00:26:55] hopefully all of you are sitting down as you hear this 67%. So two thirds out of every employee that

[00:27:01] starts at your company say that they know if they're going to stay there in the first five

[00:27:06] days. Within five days, they've decided they're going to stay. You better dazzle them then.

[00:27:10] So yes. Yeah, seriously. We need to like get them like excited from the moment they take,

[00:27:17] they take, uh, take that role and we can't leave it the chance that we have a few weeks to get them

[00:27:23] warmed up and plugged in from the beginning, make them feel connected, feel like they belong,

[00:27:27] help them understand what they need to perform, set a clear goal for what they are now and their,

[00:27:32] in their work, but also for what's potentially next for them and help them see there's a path ahead.

[00:27:36] Those sorts of things in the past have been sort of hit or miss or ad hoc, and they have to be a

[00:27:42] systematized part of how we do that or we're going to lose our best people.

[00:27:45] Yeah. Yeah. That is such a good point. Such a good point. Well, I know we are,

[00:27:51] we could talk for hours. Um, tell me how our listeners get in touch with you.

[00:27:59] So the, the best way you can find me on LinkedIn easily. Um, if you want to see any of the research

[00:28:04] or the data, we make that available on the website, LHRA.io is how you can get to that.

[00:28:10] And it, I just, I'd love a chance if someone's curious about knowing more about the research,

[00:28:14] seeing some of the things we're doing, want to know more about the next book before it's actually

[00:28:18] published any of those kinds of things. I'm happy to share because it's, it's hopefully you can tell

[00:28:21] I'm passionate about this and I'm passionate about the impact that we can have on the community,

[00:28:26] both again, the two sides of this equation, the HR leaders that are hearing my voice,

[00:28:30] as well as the technology providers, the solution providers who are helping to enable them to be

[00:28:34] great in their work as well. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you, do you have the 2025 dates

[00:28:39] for HR summer school, as well as any other events where people can find you?

[00:28:45] HRsommerschool.org is the best way to know more about that one. Thank you for asking. And it is

[00:28:50] always the very first week of June. It is coincidentally the week of my anniversary as well. So

[00:28:55] there's always a double celebration that week. Good. That's a good way to frame it is double

[00:29:00] celebration. I'm glad you said that as opposed to, yeah, so we celebrate our anniversary at another

[00:29:05] time. Yeah, that was like summer school. Oh, and that other thing, you know? Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.

[00:29:11] Well, this has been terrific, Ben. I really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much for joining us

[00:29:17] and thank you to our listeners as well. This has been Up Next at Work. Please follow us on the

[00:29:24] Work Defined Network and we look forward to bringing you episodes in the near future.