Up Next @ Work, Episode 10 with Josh Schwede of Aventura Growth Labs

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Up Next At Work. My name is Jean Achille. I am your host

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_02]: today. I am joined by one of our industry's smartest people, especially when it comes to go

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to market, sales and partnerships. Josh, I will absolutely massacre your last name.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Schwede, Josh Schwede. You did it. Did I do it? Oh, I'm so excited. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Josh, do me a favor and please introduce yourself to our listeners today.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_01]: What's up everybody? And Jean, thanks for having me on. My name is Josh Schwede.

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been in HR technology for 20 years this year, which is crazy. I spent my entire career

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: in go-to-market roles, mostly in venture funded. So kind of series A to series C,

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: higher rate when we were $10 million, higher view when I was the fifth employee there,

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: QSocial, Marcus Buckingham Cornerstone, just a blast in this space. But I've kind of seen it

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: from the top of the recruiting funnel all the way to the back end, performance, engagement,

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_01]: learning. And I just, I love our industry. I just believe people are the biggest lever

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_01]: that companies have and it always will be that way. So if we can use processor technology to make

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_01]: them better, more efficient, dialed in, you know, we're always going to have a good spot.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Talk about riding the wave. Some of those brands that you just mentioned,

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: you were really early stage and you were at innovators, category creators. What does that

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: feel like? How heady is that when you get to be part of the future like that?

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It's addicting, honestly. Like I remember, I remember I was at higher rate for five years.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I was just coming out of business school and we were building the first partnership,

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: we were building the first integrations into applicant tracking systems into

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: PeopleSoft and RecruitSoft which became Tileo and Oracle. And we were the first pre-higher

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: technology to do that. Like that was the first and we'll talk, I'm sure today,

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: about partnerships. But it just allowed me to meet a lot of people and we were a bunch of tech

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: people that were in a very fragmented non-tech industry. So we automated and made the background

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: screening world a lot easier and I got this call from Mark Newman. So we kind of, I don't want

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: to say we created the category but we definitely created kind of the tech enabled background

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_01]: check. And since you've had big companies like Checker and others come along, but Mark Newman who

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_01]: founded HigherView called me and I joined him early on and I was hooked right away because he showed

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: me HigherView in 2009. In my view this is before the front facing camera on the iPhone and this

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: is before the iPad. Mark was shipping webcams around the globe to companies. The value

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01]: we were kind of merging the Tivo DVR concept of pause, rewind, fast forward. But also increasing

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: candidate quality and bringing hiring managers and recruiters together through comparing,

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: contrasting different candidates. It was fascinating and there were big blog posts by

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_01]: people who shall remain nameless who said you guys are just going to be a feature in

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: the applicant tracking system. This is not a category. This is not a business.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm sure there's, I don't know how many video interviewing, digital interview providers

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: are today but you know listen it's hard to create categories. Everybody tells you no

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's very fulfilling and what's really cool is when you start to work with the

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: prospective clients to have them help you shape your product and your value proposition

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_01]: when they push you or when they pull you, the market pull you know you've got something.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? So at all these category creators we just would listen to what the pains were of

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the customer and just find our way to go work better for them and that's what creates the markets.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It's listening. It's not building and saying hey I got a great product come find it.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It's listening to what they need. Yeah I love that. I love that because I think

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: first of all there are a lot of vendors in the HR Tech category and to be fair

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: in other categories as well who think that because they've built it

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: they have this beautiful baby or they have the Taj Mahal of product or whatever

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and therefore everyone should be drawn to it and that is never the case. That is never the case.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're not solving business problems then you've just built something in a vacuum.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm curious though I want to ask you so as you've been part of the innovation on the HR Tech

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_02]: side what type of customer is open to sharing that experience with you because HR is historically

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: pretty risk averse and let's face it buying anything these days it's a work council committee

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever you want to call it. A lot of people involved in the process so

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_02]: how do you get a client to innovate with you?

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I think about I want everybody maybe to think back I'll use the Apple example hopefully

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the Android people don't get offended but you know when Apple was on their run of releasing new

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: phones and new products through the watch and the iPad and all the other stuff there were people

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_01]: that were buying those products before it would actually be in the store remember there would

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: be like the pre-order and there would be the line of the line of people right goes back

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to the days when new CDs were getting released right you go to those CD at a record store

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: you know so you have to think about your buyer persona HR in general is risk averse so like we

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: would look at the market and say listen just in general X percent of the market is not going

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: to be ready for something innovative but then you almost have to look at the personality

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_01]: traits of who you're working with in the function and we this was kind of a joke but

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: we always talked about we would come back from initial meetings this was particularly

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the case at higher view because that was probably the most disruptive tool I think I've been a part of

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: we would know honestly within 10 to 15 minutes of the first meeting if the customer was going to

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: actually buy or not because it would be the way they were asking questions it would be the way

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: they would almost be finishing our sentences of like the presentation the demo they get it

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: instantaneously so it's a lot like the person that's like well Apple renounces new product

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I already get it I'm on that early adopter side of the customer adoption life cycle right like if

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: we had a visual we'd be I'd be drawing the bell curve of like the early adopters and crossing the

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: CAS and the Maggards yeah so if you're if you're a startup that's out there and you're not just

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: a better mousetrap you actually have something that's new and innovative you it's hard but you

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: have got to find the early adopter innovators that are out there that just have the mental

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and brain capacity to want to take a risk to want to stick their necks out internally

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: when HR in general doesn't do that so it's really about that classic marketing buyer persona stuff

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_01]: of not just the role but what personality do they have we always like to ask hey

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_01]: tell me about other disruptive tools you've bought in the past new tools or risks that

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_01]: you have taken in your job because we felt those were like really good predictors of their

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_01]: propensity to potentially do an initial contract with us I love it I love it I always feel like

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: we should all have t-shirts made that say disruptor on them because you know let's face it but not

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody is a disrupter right that's true you got a not everybody is that's true um and just

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_01]: so we'll have another set of t-shirts made that say not a just call me call me back in two years

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: right exactly exactly exactly I love it um so so as you on the vendor journey and now in your current

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: capacity how does this actually get in the hands of the buyer is it through a partnership

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: is it direct sales you know and does that change vastly with each technology solution or

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_02]: talk me through go-to-market I think so many vendors by the way put a lot of focus on engineering

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and forget this part of the journey yeah so listen in the early days so I've spent most of my

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: 20 years doing strategic partnerships not all of it but that was definitely the first 10 years that

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: was my focus you know building integrations between us and ATSs or other tech systems we would do

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: relationships with the RPOs and the HR Outsourcers where they would they would basically private

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_01]: label our solution and take it to their customers um but if you're new it's kind of hard to do

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: partnerships because the partners are gonna go they want to see that you've actually got something

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: so you almost have to go get 10, 20, 50 paying customers prove that the market is valid do you

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: have that product market fit right so a partner really isn't going to help you with that initially

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: you have to really dial into what are your buyers need what are their pains what does your product

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: do does your product do what you think it does most of the time you end up finding out when a

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: customer uses it it actually does something different than you originally thought you zeroed on that

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: but once you kind of get that base level of customers and enough proof points in that product

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: market fit that's where the partnerships can get really interesting and can be a big igniter or

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: accelerant for your growth but in the early days honestly Gene like it's roll up your sleeves

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's founder led sales and this is one thing I talk about with my customers because I advise

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of CEO and founding teams kind of sub five million dollar companies um there's no

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: replacement for the founder led sale you can't go hire a chief revenue officer who's going to

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: rave a magic wand or hire really good reps you can but in those early days the buyer looks to

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the founding team they're it's they're looking at you they're trusting you so it's less about

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the product it's more like I'm going to give somebody a you know 10, 25, 50,000 dollar check

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and do I believe that the founder or the founding team is going to do what they say they're

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_01]: right so early days I think it's all about the founding team they have to be out there if you're

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_01]: a founder that doesn't like doing that I would I would make sure you've got somebody else on your

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: team that does um and I would also encourage founders that don't like doing it you have to do

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_01]: it anyway because you're going to learn a ton about what the customers need from you so early

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: days you have to just go do it yourself and then once you get those proof points

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: then you can start doing the partners and say hey I've got five of your customers I've got

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_01]: 10 of your customers clearly something's moving here let's talk about the partnership program that

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you might have or we might be able to be a part of that yeah that's that's I think that's well put

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: um you know we do see the the bar getting raised higher and higher when it comes to defining partner

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: programs where there has to be x amount of clients in production before people will even talk to you

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_02]: so it's not necessarily an option in the beginning you grow into it but talk about

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: growing into it and you and I have talked a little bit about this previously we've observed

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of people are still using their 2015

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_02]: sass playbook like you know what I mean yeah like like they haven't come into 2024 and and

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_02]: what we're staring you know on at beyond um and we have new pressures now we have AI we have

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: all kinds of niche solutions for everything you can possibly imagine uh before we move on I need

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: to let you know about my friend Mark Pfeffer and his show people tech if you're looking for the latest

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: on product development marketing funding big deals happening in talent acquisition hr hcm that's

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the show you need to listen to go to the work to find network search up people tech mark

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Pfeffer you can find them anywhere what are you telling people people who who who aren't ready you

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: know they know what they're doing isn't working but they aren't necessarily ready to to adopt the

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: degree of change that they need to well there's a couple things going on one from a technology

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: perspective it's easier than ever to to build software and to build integrations and you've

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: got these integration platforms and they get easy to plug into the hris and the other stuff that's out

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: there so so that's why you're probably seeing the bigger platform saying listen it's we just can't

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: have everybody in here there's got to be some base level of minimum number of customers or something

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: but I also believe our industries have been over-innovated and there's categories and subcategories

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and niches so that makes it really hard for the buyers to make any sense you also have seen sales

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and marketing software permeate throughout the hr tech landscape so it's easier than ever to find email

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: addresses for prospective buyers you can set them up in these cadences where you hit them with

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: you know phone call phone call you know email email linkedin message um so you combine the over

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: innovation along with the technology tools from a sales and marketing perspective it's impossible

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: for buyers to make sense of everything and I experienced this so i founded my own my own software

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_01]: company in 2022 it was called spotlight we were trying to be this um you're trying to be like a

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: check engine light for burnout we knew that companies couldn't get their employees at peak

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: performance at work if they weren't great outside of work so we're trying to connect

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: the dots between work and life um our timing was terrible and the venture capital market ended

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: abruptly while we were trying to do this um the venture capital market stopped investing

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01]: we ended up having to put our our company in the grave at the end of 23 but why that's

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: relevant to this podcast i was a founder ceo of a maximum seven person company the amount of

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: email and linkedin message that i was getting yes and i and we didn't have some

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and we had a pre-seed round that we did but i would take some of these phone calls i'm like

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_01]: why are you trying to like who am i why are you trying to sell to me yeah and they were they were

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_01]: trying to sell me like 30 000 sales automation tools and right so i just think everybody who

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_01]: is in any type of go-to-market role you have to put yourself in the shoes of the buyer and if

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: josh waity of a seven person company is being treated like an enterprise sales cycle like just

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_01]: imagine what a vp of talent acquisition is going through just imagine what a director of talent

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: acquisition recruiting is going through they just can't keep up with them well and they if anything

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: i don't know how you feel about but i i'm at the receiving end of this stuff also and oh my gosh

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: makes me angry after a while i'm like you're you're taking my life energy you know between

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_02]: voice mails linkedin messages emails i get endless emails i must get 30 a day about you

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: people who either want to give us funding not really you know um or want uh to generate

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: sales leads for us but they don't know anything about our business and then really care about

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_02]: our business so having said that what how do you make personalization scalable that might be

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: an unfair question here josh but but yeah i mean isn't the personal touch what actually opens

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: doors and keeps them open yeah but it's it's going to be what i'm advising my customers right now is

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: think about the call it like for a company that's got let's pretend they built a like a

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: like a sdr bdr function right where they're they're doing all the outbound campaigns

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're managing that qualifying leads for the sales people you know the response rates

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_01]: have just fallen off a cliff like nobody's responding and so those functions aren't as

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: productive and what i've heard is like well i um you know i i i got this one big lead from

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: you know insert big company name here and my sdr found that so like even though that

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: closes that kind of pays for the old function but i i'm like think about all the calories that

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: you're spending on that and how could you repurpose those calories if you think about a calorie

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: spend and dollar spend so i what i believe right now is get out of email get out of the phone

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_01]: calls get out of the linkedin dms and go create community and i'm talking about in person i'm not

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_01]: talking about online community i'm talking about in person community get out in the cities in the field

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: put together events you know many events right could be ad hoc something as simple as a easy

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: happy hour to a to an intimate dinner to hey let's just get together um you know i know one

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: company that's that's picking a location in london and they're having each month they're

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: doing a meetup and they're having like 25 practitioners for their particular category just

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: show up and they're just saying hey we're just providing the community we're not really governing

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the agenda and i that provides value to buyers if you can put buyers with their peers in any

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: fashion they're going to become loyal to you so when the time is right for you to talk to them

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: about what you're doing you've earned the right to do that and then you're going to get their

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_01]: attention versus just hitting gene with seven straight emails you know you're going to get

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: turned off and unsubscribe so i think the time is now for for real community and just think about

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_01]: how much we've gotten comfortable sitting behind these zoom screens you know it's either than ever

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_01]: to have a sales meeting now like with a prospect because they'll get on really quick versus having

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_01]: to fly in but what's really happening from those and then how much real decision making

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: is happening versus now get on the plane get in the car get out to a city you know

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and go create some memorable community and i think that's honestly i think that's the future of

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of go to market i do too and it's old school it's like going back it's going back to 30 years ago

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: it is old school but we have tools that support making it happen um i i think one of the most

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: successful expressions uh that we've seen in our client portfolio of what you've just talked about

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: is literally it was a company in new york city that used to get software engineers together

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_02]: for pizza and beer no agenda i mean sometimes there'd be like 300 people in the room just talking

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: to each other and uh but boy oh boy people were looking for that invite you know they'd come back

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_02]: to us and they'd say hey i love that last month are they doing it again you know and all of a

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: sudden you start to build advocacy and you build community um and that's you're right that's where

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: the magic happens so josh tell me what you're up to these days and also how do people get in touch

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_02]: with you how do they find you where do they find you yeah so you know when we when we ended spotlight

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_01]: at the end of last year actually at hr tech last year um i was just kind of walking the floor

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and what's up with spotlight but we were trying to we were trying to get it acquired and we

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: we couldn't make that happen unfortunately but the dealer asked me like what are you doing next

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: right and i said honestly i don't know i'm not starting another software company right now i can

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: i can tell you that i just was that took a lot out of me but i was getting calls from founders

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: saying hey i've got this project that i don't really trust anybody in my company to work on

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: can you help me with this and so it's it's turned into i now have a single person consulting firm

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and i think it's because of a couple things one you know i understand talent in hr technology

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_01]: i've been in the space for 20 years um i get startups like i've worked as i mentioned i've

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_01]: i've been a lot of them you know the grow or die mentality right like i understand that

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_01]: i also get founders i've worked for six founders and now i've been one but i also get investors

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: like i've been through multiple rounds of funding multiple vcs who worked with

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you know they tell you to scale it's never fast enough and then all of a sudden it's like but

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_01]: we've got to be ready to exit right so i kind of understand all those unique pressures and

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_01]: so that's kind of how i'm formed my consulting firm gene like i can help with go to market

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it's mainly around strategic partnerships how those can be that growth level for you but it also

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: can be your hedge towards an exit strategy down the road like the best partnerships

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: end up turning into an m&a opportunity and so that's really where i'm hanging my hat

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: my customers that i work with tend to be ceo founders sub five million dollars in arr so

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and i'm having a blast doing that so i'm i'm i will be at hr tech this year um i'm excited to

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_01]: see some of my customers there but also meet some more people um and yeah i'm just i'm

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: i'm still bullish on the space i don't think ai i think it's going to change things but i

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_01]: mean i think it's going to make everybody a lot more productive in what they're doing we're just

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: going to have to rethink the way we do work but that wouldn't be the first time that we've

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: all had to do that right exactly no that's that's well put um can people find you on

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: linkedin uh do you want to get an email address we always like to make sure that we

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: make that connection for for our listeners thank you so the company is called avan tura growth

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_01]: labs um you'll find me on linkedin just with josh wady and you can get linked up there i

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: jean and i were joking earlier before the show i'm literally building my website right now

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_01]: so that'll be coming soon but yeah i'd say just hit me on linkedin um and i'm very responsive

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: so follow me just send me a dm we'd love to chat um and i i do all kinds of calls with people

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_01]: like i don't charge anybody for the first three calls and we just talk about your business

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and what you're trying to solve for so um yeah linkedin's probably the best way and um yeah that's

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: way to get hold me and that's a generous offer boy oh boy well thank you so much for being our

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: guest today josh this is up next at work uh this episode will be dropping before the hr tech

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: conference so if you are interested in meeting with josh at the show that's an option so be sure

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: to connect with him on linkedin thank you and stay tuned for the next episode of up next at work