Predicting the Future Workforce: How Pepelwerk is Revolutionizing HR Tech

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my goodness, bad touching, harassment, sex, violence, fraud, threats, all things that could have been avoided.

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_02]: If you had Fama, stop hiring dangerous people.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Fama.io

[00:00:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey what's going on everyone? Ryan Leary here from WRKdefined.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: If there was one thing that I could change about recruiting, it would probably be the amazingly awful candidate experience that job seekers have to endure at one of the most stressful times in their life.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Hiring teams, it is time to step up.

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to create an experience that is memorable, fast and efficient.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can do that with Indeed Smart Sourcing. Check them out online at Indeed.com or just Google Indeed Smart Sourcing.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: What is going on everybody? Ryan Leary, William Tinkup here on the Use Case Podcast.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Today we have Kim Kelly with us from PeopleWorks.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be talking with her all about the use case for her technology, what problems are solving and what they're doing.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But before we get there, William what is going on today? How are you?

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking for the Cowboys. Ryan, we got a lot of hope.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: You must be muted right now.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: No, we got a lot of hope. A lot of hope. It's very early in the season. A lot of hope for the Cowboys.

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It will all be gone by week eight.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm still saying.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got to enjoy it.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to enjoy it.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: This season starts. Your season's over.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to live in hope right now until it's shattered.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the official logo of the Cowboys now.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: How about the Cowboys until week eight?

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Kim, you're in Dallas but you're not born and bred in Dallas.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're not too bad. You're half good because you're still living in Dallas.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_02]: People here thought up here don't appreciate that but we'll save that for another day.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: She's not a cold weather person, Ryan.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Hawaiian, Viking, Irish just don't do well in cold.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Viking even thinks so but no where they landed, yeah.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_04]: They told us otherwise. I'm great, Ryan and William.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm so glad to be here.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I actually did listen to a few of your other podcasts to get the rhythm and a rink of why I was laughing quite a bit

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_04]: because a lot of the content and conversations,

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I guess that's really what I'm more excited about is the conversations that you just bring out.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, okay, well, I'm pretty pumped to be on this podcast.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, now we know where the one download last month came from.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: The words were soft.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, why don't we start off, introduce yourself, the company which you guys are doing and we'll go from there.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, I'm Kim Kelly.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I've been in HR tech and ops for all of my career just in different capacities.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_04]: And I launched people work six years ago and what we do is really predict the future workforce.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the end game of the product.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of cool things that happen inside of the experience for our multitude of users, but that's really our end game.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so spell the name of the company real quick.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_04]: It's phonetics P E P L W E R K.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And teachers love us because we're teaching everyone about the accent E instead of a couple of work.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_04]: I've been told that I look like Chinese spam sometimes.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I get it.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I do love the logo though.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Not going to lie.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the first things that stuck out on the site.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where it would be there.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So when you say future of work, are you talking mostly about skills?

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about attributes and skills.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's really between those two.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, attributes are William, your attributes are that you are probably a processor.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_04]: You're naturally curious.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_04]: You're going to be very good for things like problem solving through discovery.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_04]: You are naturally social and inquisitive.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Those are Williams attributes.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to see does you I'm feeling judged now.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: She can't figure me out.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_04]: That's part of my AI in my platform is I take a picture of people's face and I

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_04]: basically simplify some of that self discovery through the use of things that are called

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_04]: geno science and genotyping as well as psychometric evaluations.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_04]: But I kind of wrap it up into this little picture.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_04]: You take a picture of yourself.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about the platform a bit.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the problem that you are attempting to solve here?

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, to be frank, the problem that I set out to solve is so that I never had to

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_04]: do the same thing as an HR executive ever again in my life.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And then selfishly that I could save my grandchildren from having the same mistakes

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_04]: and misunderstandings about their place in the world as I passed down to my

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_04]: children because I kind of kept my head in the sand as they were approaching

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_04]: adulthood and I just kind of didn't realize it.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_04]: So for selfish purposes completely is what problems I'm after solving.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_04]: But if I'm putting it in a more like professional conversation, most HR

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_04]: leaders, not HR administrators, HR leaders are looking for better ways to

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_04]: relate to their people and they simply can't do that with legacy systems

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_04]: and processes because HR went from administrative to systematic to the

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_04]: psychic roles of all of the other leaders in the organization.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Sometimes we're confused with legal, sometimes we're confused with operations.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And then like sometimes we're also confused with being cops.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, people in the workforce, they think don't go to HR

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_04]: because that means you're in jail.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you're in, you're going to go to the principal's office.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So there's been this whole kind of thing around what is expected out of

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_04]: HR, but unfortunately like over 30 years we never really evolved anything in it.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Like HR if you were an administrator you just kind of dealt with the hand that

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_04]: you were dealt and if you were a leader like me you were like I am living

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_04]: the same problem over and over again.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't get ahead of my workforce needs.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm constantly chasing my tail.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to engage my employees that are doing like four jobs and

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_04]: really don't care about what's going on in my company.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Like what is this game that I'm failing at, but what could be what I'm doing to

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_04]: succeed at it?

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And so that's really what I designed people work for.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so that HR leaders can autonomize and leverage machine learning

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and AI to get ahead of human capacity planning, talent management,

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_04]: workforce planning, learning and development and let their employees

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: tell them what they need so that they can become better leaders.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to take a break real quick just to let you know about a new show.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We've just added to the network Up Next at Work hosted by Gene and Kate

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_02]: A'Keele of The Devon Group.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic show.

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're looking for something that pushes the norm, pushes the boundaries,

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_02]: has some really spirited conversations, Google Up Next at Work,

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Gene and Kate A'Keele from The Devon Group.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So real quick, did you jump from being an HR leader to starting people work?

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: How is that, how is the job?

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm always curious.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean we've seen it work really successfully in a lot of places,

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: but how is the job for you?

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Like the job from being an entrepreneur to an industry.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, this is my second business.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_04]: So I've been an entrepreneur before.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I do think it's a disease.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_04]: It's not something that anybody should be aspiring.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_04]: But when I left my last role as a TPHR officer,

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_04]: it was a global e-commerce company.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_04]: It was kind of a strategic exit because the company was going through

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_04]: a divestiture and leadership in the size of the company had changed.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_04]: So it was just like, hey, this is probably not the right size and

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_04]: not the right structure for me.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And I was obviously in a spot in my life where I had time to think

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_04]: about what it is that I wanted to do.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And I know that I didn't want to implement another ERP system.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't want to implement another applicant tracking system.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Why not?

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know because I got sick of drinking.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: My liver couldn't take it anymore.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: 100%, not a masochist.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just didn't want to go through that bit again.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Got it.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_04]: So I just knew the laundry list of things I didn't want to do.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_04]: So mentally, I didn't think I wanted to be an entrepreneur either

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_04]: because it is a painful journey and especially what I knew what

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I was up against in order to do something like paperwork.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_04]: It's up against a lot.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did go back to drinking and that's how I made the decision.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: 100%.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Who do you get compared to?

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there somebody in this space?

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I always tell people that it's the status quo that's usually

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: your biggest competitor is people just doing the same shit

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: the same way.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But do you have somebody else that's out there that it's

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_00]: like, oh, okay.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can see some of the some people getting us confused.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_04]: We always in conversations, people always try to just like, I

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_04]: guess really anybody does with anything that's unfamiliar.

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_04]: You try to find an association and a component of what people

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_04]: work is like, okay, well, you're indeed your zipper.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, these five things you're really linked in on these

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_04]: things you're really more like replacing Google marketing.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_04]: You're on these like we get kind of bucketed.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Most of the time at the conclusion of the call, they're like,

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_04]: why don't we know how to describe you?

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, that's why we are called people work.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's the name of this new thing.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And that is sometimes what takes a little bit of processing

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_04]: for people.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and also where does it come from?

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: What budget as you know, because you created as much HR

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_00]: budgets, right?

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a row and a column at one point.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's got to be in a row and a column.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that sometimes that startups biggest kind of hump

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that they have to overcome is understanding the HR budget

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: and how it works both systematically how it works and

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: how it goes but also what are the line items?

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Where are the categories?

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Where do you where are you going to pull from?

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I've advised a lot of startups.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So I get this all the time like we're a new category.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, don't ever tell anyone that again.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Never say that out loud, especially in front of me.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't ever say that out loud.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Tell them that they'll take this out of ex budget.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Could be culture, could be, you know,

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: engagement or employee experience, take it out of the things

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_00]: that already have that are established budgets and say

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: bigger spend less there and here's what you're going to get.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But don't try to create a new, a new line item is 18 months

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: at least to get a new line item on HR budget.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a you remind me, I love the fact that you are talking

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_04]: about where, where is the money?

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Like where, where's the purse?

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's, I guess that was one of the things I had

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_04]: already because of my life experiences.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_04]: My, I started my career Walmart.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Everything has a purse.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_04]: I did too.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: I worked for, I worked, I worked for Sam.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We could totally talk about that separately.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I got, I got, I got this autographed copy of Sam's rules

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: hung up in my office.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: That's so cool.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I should leave this conversation.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Autographed copy of his book.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a, I had an office.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a cube.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a cube outside of his office.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_00]: William, Brian, that's okay.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_04]: You can be like the awkward third wheel.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he brought me from the stores.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Back in the day, I opened up this called hypermart.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a joint venture between Cullum company, Tom thumb

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and Walmart.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00]: They were called hypermart.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's two in Dallas, one in Garland,

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: one in Arlington, two in Kansas, one in Kansas city

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and one, I can't remember the other city's name.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And I opened up all four of them.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then went to Walmart division one went to Walmart

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and loved it.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I,

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_04]: That's why you know to ask for the budget question

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_04]: because that's 100%

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you just know where it's at.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And when, when I started people were in the

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_04]: startup scene, it was very awkward for me because

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not,

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not the average startup CEO.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And even when there's,

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know what the number is.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Like I'm sure I don't know what the percentage of

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_04]: executives convert to entrepreneurship and struggle

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_04]: with that startup scene because most of the startup

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_04]: scene is there to teach like fundamentals of business.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And a lot of the times when,

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_04]: when a new sales person would come into people work

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and they would say, Oh, you know, I was so excited.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I,

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I got,

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_04]: they were so intrigued about people work and they want to do

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_04]: this.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_04]: And I said, did you,

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_04]: where's the money coming from?

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And they said, well, you know, we'll have that on the next

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_04]: conversation.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm saying you're not going to make a sale because the La La

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_04]: hope,

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: especially in HR software world is there's nobody that says

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_04]: no,

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_04]: because they don't know what the heck to do with you.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody's going to say yes or no very clearly about

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_04]: what it is that you're doing.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_04]: But if you say this is where I want you to start and

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_04]: this is how much money I need to do that.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And then you say yes.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Now we're,

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_04]: you know,

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_04]: we're really talking about a transaction here,

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_04]: which is good.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Who are we selling to here?

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Kim, what's the,

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: what's the target?

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: What companies are we going after?

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: What size of company?

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Ryan,

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate that question and I don't at the same time

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_04]: because our,

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_04]: our bread and butter,

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_04]: what people work is where,

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_04]: where we provide the most value is the small and medium

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_04]: size organization for us.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_04]: That means you've reached 5 million and you are growing at a

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_04]: certain rate or you are tipping the 100 million scale

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_04]: and you don't know necessarily where to right size to protect

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_04]: margin and do what you need to do to get over what's called

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_04]: the,

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_04]: the big hoop,

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_04]: which is to be considered an enterprise organization.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_04]: We do have a few outlier enterprise organizations,

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_04]: but they are by brand early adopters.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_04]: They came to us for a very specific use case.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_04]: They came to us also because they were hard.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_04]: They were 1000 commit,

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_04]: 1000% committed to doing more than lip service to do business

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_04]: with women minority on tech companies to help change the

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_04]: leadership space.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So,

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm really grateful for the risk that they took on me early on

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_04]: like early on in the whole phase of people work,

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_04]: which was in 2019,

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_04]: hung on with me through 2020 as we've no one knew what to do.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_04]: And then came through with flying colors, you know,

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_04]: six years later,

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm really grateful for those enterprise companies,

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_04]: but they're not my,

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_04]: they're not the target audience.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you ask to be integrated with like technology wise

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and the stack that they have?

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: What's your,

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00]: are they,

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: what do they need you to be integrated with?

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_04]: On an enterprise level,

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_04]: it always comes down to their ERP system.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_04]: And we do replace and or integrate into a recruiting module

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_04]: of an ERP system,

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_04]: but we don't like to own an enterprise level of an ERP system.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Because the value proposition to employees is different than an

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_04]: ERP system.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_04]: And so we,

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_04]: we try on purpose to say,

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_04]: can you treat us like we're an employee program?

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't treat us like we are part of talent acquisition cycle.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_04]: They will benefit from the byproduct,

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_04]: but we don't want to be in the resume world.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't want to try.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_04]: We don't want you to try to take something new that breaks bad

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_04]: behavior and then stick us into that bad behavior.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_04]: So we really,

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_04]: we really,

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_04]: we really try not to do that on the small and medium size

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_04]: business organizations.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Man, it is wild west.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean,

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_04]: we have some cousins platform that was created in Romania.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know what it is that it does.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I mean, we've got the gamut.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know if I could tell you besides HubSpot.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Now HubSpot is our preferred CRM partner for a lot of reasons.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_04]: So we do a lot of integration with HubSpot,

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_04]: but outside of like HR onboarding payroll systems,

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_04]: work management platforms, my goodness.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I've said that there's no two HR tech stacks alike in the world.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they exist.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you go into a company, there's just,

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_00]: they're stacked differently.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: They started with career builder.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Then they got this ATS one other on their 18th ATS.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, none of them have the exact same bit.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm so curious,

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_04]: William and Ryan,

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_04]: if all of them are different,

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_04]: why are they all trying to do the same thing?

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Because the question we ponder quite often.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, 100%.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of what drives that is FOMO,

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: is that they think that someone else has it figured out.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Nike surely has it figured out.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's do what Nike does.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Zappos, oh my God, Zappos.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: They've got it figured out.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do what they do.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't work.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to do what's right size to your company,

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the business outcomes, your employees, your candidates, et cetera.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think the right size of technology needs to be,

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: it should be individual.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, individualistic in the sense of a fingerprint.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think why people want to do it in other ways

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: is driven because they think that someone else is doing it better

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and or not.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's also an element of how the organization is structured.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll use recruiting software, things like that.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Recruiters are curious, and we've talked about this,

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: recruiters are curious by nature is what drives them.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're constantly being sold to for the little

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: knick-knack type recruiting tools.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And don't bring in 30 different tools to their team.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And at some point, the company or their managers give into it.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And now they have 20 different things that they're using

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_02]: or that they're paying for that they're not using

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: or not using appropriately.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're just needing that, right?

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So they may have four different sourcing tools

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_02]: or five different communications tools

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're not using them

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_02]: or they're not using them appropriately

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and nothing ties into each other.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're seeing less and less of that now,

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: but only at organizations that have some sort of complexity to them

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and managers or leaders, I should say,

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: not even managers, leaders that care about the budget

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and the organization.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_04]: The caring part now, that is like an emphasis

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_04]: for the conversation.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_04]: One of the things that I have no patience

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_04]: with is the fact that I'm not using the same tools

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't like to do things over and over again

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_04]: and get horrible results.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I like Einstein's theory of crazy.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Like if you expected the same thing and did something different,

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_04]: ew.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_04]: So that was another contention I had in the realm of HR.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Like HR executives, they get up on a platform

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and they are like, I want diversity and equity

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and I want all of these things and I believe in AI

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_04]: and then you go look under the hood.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_04]: They did not change their ERP systems.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_04]: They didn't change their employees.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_04]: They didn't change their operating processes,

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_04]: but somehow magically there's this theory of equality

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_04]: and equity opportunity for jobs

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm like, oh shit, I did that.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I know that that's not right.

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_04]: So you can put widgets and plugins

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_04]: and try to video record somebody

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_04]: and then still impose your bias

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_04]: because you like to have that control

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_04]: and then foul the whole system up again.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_04]: So the caring part to it is kind of where my brain

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_04]: is stuck right now

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_04]: because there are governments around the world

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_04]: that do not allow functions.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_04]: It is a centralized government responsibility

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_04]: because why a government wants to track the taxes?

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_04]: We are the only country that is like, hey,

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_04]: between taxes, your income and you getting a job,

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_04]: we want like 30 people to be involved in this stack.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So for us to have conversations

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_04]: like when we have conversations with our prospects,

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_04]: I start off with what do you like to do on your job?

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Do you really enjoy getting to know the people

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_04]: and do you really care about the financial integrity

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_04]: of your company?

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_04]: And do you really care about the humanity of what job

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_04]: and I know that sounds like EVDB stuff

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_04]: but Mike, do you really care about the humanity

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_04]: of what HR's contribution is to the world

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_04]: or do you just love your Excel worksheets

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_04]: and administrative processes

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_04]: and the superficial control?

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_04]: And you might be thinking to yourself,

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_04]: no, she doesn't really say that in a sales call,

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_04]: but I do.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I do.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it helps me.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Is the quickest path to a good call?

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yes.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I know what my platform can do

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_04]: for a true HR leader

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_04]: who sees the immense value of simplifying their life

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_04]: and optimizing the human experience through work

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_04]: versus you're an administrator

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and you told me,

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_04]: oh, I have to really start from the foundation.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_04]: It is 2024 and you're about to put in your first ATS system?

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: You're not a tech innovator.

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's let that go.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Ship sailed.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Ship sailed.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I despise software categories.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: However, again, like the HR budget,

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: there's rows and columns and stuff like that.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: What category do people put you in?

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: More often than not.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, more often than not,

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_04]: we get put under talent management

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_04]: and under talent management.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm either put in as a marketing expense.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Or I am put in under data analytics and reporting.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: What would you like for that to be if there was a category

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: that you would like to be in?

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: What would it be?

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The category is fucking fabulous.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's my category.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no other categories.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Realistically, realistically because like a CFO,

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_04]: if I started a conversation with the CFO of a smaller

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_04]: organization that's growing and this CFO is like,

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_04]: I really like automation.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I see the financial growth of my company.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to be belabored by traditional HR functions.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_04]: We have an HR manager.

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_04]: This is not a tool to replace the HR function as a human tool.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_04]: It is meant to replace the unnecessary,

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_04]: repetitive bottleneck that can be HR administrative

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_04]: administration.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_04]: So we want to see a bill brings us in there like,

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_04]: well, you replace 17 systems that we had as a proposed budget.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_04]: So I can just put you, we have our ERP.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_04]: We have our work management system and we have people work.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_04]: That's it.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And I love when we get those opportunities because we're right

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_04]: at the cusp of these really great companies that are going to be

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_04]: my kids' Google of the world.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And we're getting them started from such a fabulous foundation

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_04]: to help them redefine and connect with human beings for work

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_04]: and it just wasn't possible when I started my career.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_04]: So CFOs, that's where they kind of end up.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_04]: If I'm in the house, that's already got all those line items.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_04]: That's usually where I'm stuck.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really debate where I'm stuck.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_04]: What I do prefer though, the final leadership,

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_04]: the champion on the inside to recognize this for

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_04]: is the predictive analytics.

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_04]: You can put me in a category of this, that or the other,

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_04]: and I don't care.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But what I want you to know at the end of the year,

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_04]: when you evaluate your budget,

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I cannot live without that information.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And that information is what I will pay all day.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Where do you find that most companies,

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: as you're talking with them, going through a demo

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_02]: or just talking with them about what you all are doing?

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Where's that moment?

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the AHA moment that they have?

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, yeah, Kim's our solution here.

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: People work is our solution.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We need to bring them in.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_04]: It really comes down to three questions.

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I say and let me go back a little bit

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_04]: to answer your question about our target.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Our target industries are skills-based,

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_04]: high-demand industries.

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_04]: We do very well in entertainment,

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_04]: very well in energy, very well in manufacturing,

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_04]: very well in technology, very well in agribusiness.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_04]: All of these industries that are or have been

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_04]: realizing and I'm sorry, construction,

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_04]: the value and power of automation through their business.

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're now trying to bring that automation

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_04]: to their workforce in terms of real-time,

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_04]: skilling, free, proactive workforce building.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_04]: That's the thing.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_04]: What is it that's getting us?

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So those industries are where we have our symphony moments.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Healthcare is another industry that we play in,

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_04]: but healthcare is healthcare.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_04]: The specialist in healthcare,

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_04]: if it's a very specific business unit of the healthcare system,

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_04]: we do very well in,

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_04]: but healthcare is a broad category.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_04]: It's hit and miss.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_04]: But I wanted to go back to that, Ryan,

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_04]: in order to answer your question about what it is

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_04]: that gets them to the AHA.

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I say if you were able to retain 12%

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_04]: of your town acquisition, marketing,

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_04]: and learning and development budget per employee

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_04]: that you lost last year,

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_04]: would that be a value to you?

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Most organizations are spending $33,000

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_04]: per total employee acquisition,

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_04]: learning and development by the time somebody leaves.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_04]: So then the math is immediately in our favor.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_04]: The second thing I tell them is,

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_04]: if I could tell you who out of your entire workforce

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_04]: is your next manager,

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_04]: your next specialist,

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_04]: your next champion in an hour after you start implementation,

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_04]: would that be a value to you?

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, because they're trying to do succession planning.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_04]: They're trying to figure out their retirees who are leaving.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_04]: They're trying to figure out how to plug this people hole

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_04]: that keeps getting compounded.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And then the third thing I ask them is,

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_04]: if you could distribute in real time

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_04]: the power of your employees to have mentorship

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and coaching conversations just at their whim

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_04]: at 10 o'clock at night, at 4 o'clock in the morning

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_04]: through a personalized AI career assistant,

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_04]: do you think that would help bring your employees

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_04]: more better peace of mind and help retention?

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_04]: And they always say yes.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_04]: So those three questions that they're like,

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_04]: oh well the way you ask the question,

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't think of your solution as that

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_04]: because I was trying to put you into a familiar hole.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm saying, well you don't do that

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_04]: because I'm looking at the end game for you

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_04]: because I was in your boss's seat.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I want these answers.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I wanna know who I'm hiring in 2025

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_04]: so that I can tell my sales team sell more of this

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_04]: because I have the skilled people to do that.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Don't sell more of that

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_04]: because we don't have enough robots or people to do that job.

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And by the way, our current workforce

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_04]: we're gonna be okay because we have a transition plan.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I wanted to be able to say

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_04]: as a chief HR officer or a strategist

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and I never could.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you were always like trying to chase

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_04]: the puzzle piece.

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_04]: They never gave you the information

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_04]: because you weren't set up to do that.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you just weren't.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me ask you a couple of buy side questions.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: If at when you do a demo of people working for somebody

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_00]: what's your favorite part of the demo?

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, that's a great question.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_02]: When they'd say yes.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_04]: You know what Ryan?

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_04]: That is true.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Gosh, you know what I think?

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_04]: There's a couple, I love the faces.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I love the.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I love the shock of the face as they go through

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_04]: because it takes like 10 minutes to do

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_04]: and understand what people work is.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_04]: And obviously demo is not necessary.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Go create an account, play around and start developing your

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_04]: AI career system.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Do your thing.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Like you're going to figure out real quick whether or not

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_04]: it's something that's going to work for you

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_04]: because as I have lived and breathed through

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_04]: 5000 staffs, full stack programs

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_04]: like HR, enterprise systems.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't ever want to do that to people.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_04]: So my system is real time.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_04]: We do integrations within hours.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_04]: You I mean like we we want you not to have to execute

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_04]: your your employee assistant programs in order to

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_04]: implement people work.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Like we just want you to be happy that you did it

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_04]: and drink coffee along the way and watch the amazing results.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_04]: So the shock and awe of all of those things Ryan

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_04]: during a demo call is what it is.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like that was it and it did all that.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't believe that your system can do all that that like

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_04]: that replaces so much that just made my life so easier

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and it did.

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And now I know that that Joe was like out in the field

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_04]: and he's my next manager.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I never even thought he cared about his job.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Like those are the reactions that I get.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And I love it.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_04]: So I love all those things.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Ryan did you have something I have a couple.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: No no go ahead.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought you had a follow up there.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I did favorite customer success story without naming

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_00]: names or any of that type stuff but just someone that might

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: have even been critical or cynical about what you do.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: They implemented anyhow and all of a sudden they can't

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: imagine life without it.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to do the cynical one because that's my fun.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_04]: I love I love those because the doubt like we are sure.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah we've seen this.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah we yeah we've seen a version of this now you haven't

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_04]: but that's okay.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I in 20 and this was early on so what we did 2018 my co-founder

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_04]: and I'm all our we we actually had built kind of like a

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_04]: solution to an HR problem and work together so we knew

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_04]: that we were going to work well together and our team

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_04]: that started with us in 2018 we really committed to

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_04]: getting us close to the full cycle version of the platform

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_04]: that we could before we went and provoked all of our

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_04]: beta customers to participate in 2019.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And I on purpose picked various roles within the HR

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_04]: ecosystem at various stages of company and sizes.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So like a VP of HR at a small company and a VP

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_04]: of an HR a medium sized company and a VP of HR

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_04]: or CHRO and an enterprise company they all have different

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_04]: scopes the problems and they see the value differently.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_04]: So that was very important to me but the one the one

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_04]: talent and acquisition dude that came so pompous he

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_04]: thought he just knew everything about what he was

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: talking about.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I thought you were talking about William in a nice way.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair statement.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_04]: His bravado I was like wow this dude is like he believes

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and he believes to his core that he knows everything

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_04]: that there is to know about the world of talent

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_04]: acquisition and I said okay well tell me what your

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_04]: problem is now. He's like well I don't have enough

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_04]: tech arts for my company to the software company.

[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like in my mind like of course you know enough

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_04]: tech arts because people work didn't exist 10 years

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_04]: ago to solve this problem but okay you don't have

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_04]: enough tech arts. I said how much money do you

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_04]: spend annually recruiting tech arts?

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_04]: He said well and I know he didn't know the exact

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_04]: number but his ego was not going to let him say

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. He said I believe it's around $160,000

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_04]: in marketing spend for I said how many tech

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_04]: arts did you need? Four. Okay. You need four

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_04]: tech arts and you need them to have to be ready

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_04]: to do business now there's like revenue waiting

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_04]: on the table for these these roles. He said oh yeah

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_04]: it's been open for like a year and a half.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay I said all right. Yes thank you

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_04]: William so I said okay if you don't use

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_04]: people work and you continue to do what you're

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_04]: doing what is your bet that your year is

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_04]: going to end up the same way that you had it?

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_04]: So he said 80% maybe I'm going to find my

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_04]: magic unicorn. I said okay and then once

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_04]: you've found your your unicorn because this

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_04]: is a high-demand rule like how long do

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_04]: you think you're going to stay? You're going to play the

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_04]: salary game they're going to get that letter do

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_04]: you get them in India you get them in Russia

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_04]: you get them in the United States are all playing

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_04]: the same game so how long are they going to stay

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_04]: there for and then how you know what's your turn.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm making him think through what he thinks

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_04]: he knows because I want him to see what he

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_04]: is going to get right that's what I'm making

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_04]: sure is happening in the conversation it's a

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_04]: comprehension of value so I said okay so

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_04]: over two years we're about 210 to 20 into

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_04]: the recruiting cost you're going to have an

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_04]: opportunity cost that's going to continue

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_04]: for another eight to eleven months revenue is

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_04]: just flushing down the toilet so you're

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_04]: just compounding it let's just throw

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_04]: another hundred thousand on there you're

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_04]: like another three ten maybe three twenty

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_04]: onto these rolls that you have and you

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_04]: don't know and then at least 50% of them

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_04]: are going to turn and then you're going to

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_04]: have to do that cycle over again I said is

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_04]: it a fair deal that I can say that your

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_04]: organization has lost two years and

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_04]: maybe four hundred thousand dollars just

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_04]: on these roles.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_04]: He said that's fair I'll take it I said

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_04]: okay that's my starting point I want you

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_04]: to go into the system and design your

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_04]: uniform attributes what kind of culture

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_04]: fit am I looking for what kind of mind

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_04]: am I looking for skills abilities

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_04]: knowledge what your company all right

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_04]: we're going to introduce you and we're

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_04]: going to call him Ryan for this

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_04]: conversation this is all happening now

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_04]: automatically Ryan shows up as a match

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Ryan is a 80% match to this uniform

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_04]: position in less than three hours why

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_04]: no resume blind matching attributes

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Ryan has the work ethic the mentality

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_04]: the learning capability and the basic

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_04]: skills to do this role so now we'll

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_04]: just call him Joe Joe has this

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_04]: automated conversation already with Ryan

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_04]: he's actually on vacation he's on the

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_04]: beach he's like I don't think her

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_04]: system is going to work he doesn't

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_04]: interrupt his wife he has the

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_04]: interview with Ryan they do a live

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_04]: test of skills and he calls me

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_04]: immediately after he says holy shit

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_04]: where did you find Ryan I said I

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_04]: didn't find Ryan that's why I told I

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_04]: marketed to Ryan saying you're a human

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_04]: being and you have attributes and

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_04]: abilities in a way of thinking that

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_04]: can provide value to organizations I

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_04]: don't want your resume I don't want

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_04]: you and then it was in chat GPT

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_04]: resume gaming but it's all gaming I

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_04]: don't want you to gain your

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_04]: resume I don't want you to

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_04]: oversell me on LinkedIn I don't want

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_04]: you to use me as a barter in chef and

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_04]: the company still has Ryan working for

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_04]: him today that was all within a week

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_04]: and it all cost them $1,700

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Josh walks off stage this has been

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_00]: fantastic I absolutely love I know

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Ryan does too we love what you're

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_00]: doing just just and love your nature

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_00]: as well so just thanks for coming on

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the show