Asynchronous Video Interviewing: One-Way Video Interviewing FTW with Matt Baxter, CEO and Founder at Wedge

[00:00:00] Number one, the majority of bias in general is one-on-one reviewing of information. Whether

[00:00:06] that's a resume, whether that's a phone screen, whether that's looking at a dinner menu, you

[00:00:10] are biased one person looking at one piece of information. The moment you introduce a

[00:00:15] second set of eyes onto a piece of information by nature, you have reduced bias in some degree,

[00:00:21] some degree not necessarily eliminated, but you have reduced it. One of the cool tools

[00:00:25] or the abilities of wedge is the ability to share and to your term, William, to collaborate

[00:00:30] with other people on the team. So William, let's say you're the CEO, Ryan, you're the

[00:00:34] CFO and I'm the HR manager. If I have a candidate come in and I do a phone screen that the

[00:00:39] bias or lack thereof is only as good as me on that phone screen taking notes to send

[00:00:44] to you. But with a wedge, you can literally send the same exact piece of information

[00:00:48] that all three of us are looking at.

[00:01:23] Boom. So Matt, do us a favor and introduce yourself. Introduce wedge.

[00:01:29] My name is Matt Baxter. I live in Michigan from Ann Arbor, live in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

[00:01:35] I own a company called Wedge. We get wedgy a lot. That's not what it is. It's wedge,

[00:01:40] wedge HR. We are specifically a B2B software platform. We play in the video interview

[00:01:44] space. When everybody hears video interview, they think Zoom, FaceTime, Riverside, Teams,

[00:01:50] any of those. We are one way video interviewing or on-demand video interviewing or what the

[00:01:56] word nobody can spell is asynchronous video interviewing. So we're a software platform

[00:02:00] that we sell into businesses that are doing some form of high volume hiring and some

[00:02:05] form of volume hiring, whether it's franchises, individual locations. We work with a wide

[00:02:09] range. But yeah, end of the day, we're a video interview platform designed to help

[00:02:14] make the whole hiring process more efficient.

[00:02:16] You know what I loved about that is not only the asynchronous part, but you didn't mention Skype.

[00:02:24] I don't even think it was alive when Skype was a thing.

[00:02:26] No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There was a period early. There was a period where Skype would

[00:02:31] have been on that list.

[00:02:32] So for perspective in a month from today, I turned 30 and Skype, Skype was the platform

[00:02:39] that in middle school, when he wanted to have a little video session with your

[00:02:43] girlfriend, that's what you use. That was a middle school tool and then it faced out.

[00:02:48] Yep. And I always got a lot of anxiety when that came on because, you know, it was always

[00:02:53] loud enough that everybody in the home could hear it. So when you was going in trouble,

[00:02:56] it's perfect.

[00:02:57] What is that sound?

[00:02:58] Nothing, nothing, nothing.

[00:03:01] We used to take the corded phone and just go walk around in the closet and shut

[00:03:06] the closet to talk. He's talking about Skype, middle school.

[00:03:10] Oh, man.

[00:03:11] So yeah, it's a funny story.

[00:03:13] Yesterday we have our weekly trivia night because that's what we do in my lovely

[00:03:18] old age. We do trivia nights on Wednesday and the woman sitting next to me,

[00:03:24] there was a question that came about 1995 or something like that.

[00:03:28] And she was like, oh, I was five years old when that movie came out.

[00:03:30] I'm like, hmm, I was graduated and started college that year.

[00:03:36] Yeah.

[00:03:38] And I was just like, wow, that's bad.

[00:03:41] I don't know what was worse at that. Yeah, that was bad.

[00:03:44] There was a period where I think for me it's since high school graduation.

[00:03:49] When I graduated high schools, when I started interacting with men and women,

[00:03:54] don't really make a difference. And they would say their birthday and it was

[00:03:58] after I graduated high school. That's the moment I'm like, oh, we're not

[00:04:02] going to be able to relate on some things.

[00:04:04] Yeah.

[00:04:05] My movie references are not your movie references.

[00:04:08] Top culture is different. Everything.

[00:04:10] Top culture is different. Yeah.

[00:04:11] I stared at yesterday or two days ago, I was grabbing a drink with an investor

[00:04:15] and I looked at one of the signs that says before this age, you can't,

[00:04:20] you know, you have ID. And in 2003, now if you're born in 2003,

[00:04:24] you can legally drink, right?

[00:04:26] Right.

[00:04:27] And I looked at that and I'm like, okay, my age is coming.

[00:04:29] I got my first gray hair. It's here. I'm starting to age out. It sucks.

[00:04:35] Oh, man.

[00:04:37] So when you say asynchronous just for the audience to make sure that they

[00:04:41] understand one way a hiring manager gets on and says this is what the

[00:04:45] job's all about. You'll be working with this team, et cetera.

[00:04:50] That's a one way. And then the respondent, a candidate can respond

[00:04:55] to that one way, right?

[00:04:57] That's exactly right. So with our tool, a company sets up a series of

[00:05:01] questions typically three to five. You can do an intro video, three to

[00:05:05] five questions and then an outro video. So the candidate is being

[00:05:09] presented whether they're invited through their ATS or through Indeed

[00:05:13] or whatever it is you're invited to do this. You did on your phone

[00:05:16] or your desktop question pops or intro pops up. Hey, my name is Matt.

[00:05:20] Welcome to wedge super excited to have you as a candidate.

[00:05:22] Yada, yada, yada. And then the next question pops up. You answer

[00:05:25] usually it's tell me about yourself or whatever, whatever it may be.

[00:05:28] You can do retakes, no retakes. It's up to the company whether you

[00:05:31] want to allow that and the videos end up being

[00:05:34] Oh, probably four to five minutes, usually a minute and a half to two

[00:05:38] minutes per question. So if it's three to five questions, you're

[00:05:40] writing that five to six minutes range.

[00:05:43] We've had over 300,000 candidates go to the tool now, which is

[00:05:47] a sweet milestone over a million and a half minutes of recording.

[00:05:50] So there's been some decent.

[00:05:53] It's been pretty cool. Yeah, so it's been cool and fun to see that

[00:05:56] at some scale. And the questions themselves on the recruiting

[00:06:01] hiring side, are they the one that script those questions? Do you

[00:06:05] have like a library that they can go through?

[00:06:08] Because you know, again, everyone hates kind of a blank piece of paper

[00:06:12] or kind of a starting fresh or starting new.

[00:06:16] So I'm just wondering how that what that process is like.

[00:06:19] Yeah, so we pre populated man about 150 questions all designed

[00:06:25] around behavioral based interviewing. So emotional intelligence,

[00:06:28] open-ended tech questions, you know, tell me about your last boss

[00:06:31] and what worked and what didn't work things like that where it's open-ended.

[00:06:34] But then companies themselves can customize their own questions.

[00:06:37] I would say we're probably 80 to 90% of our clients customize their

[00:06:42] own, which is great, but we wanted to provide some for them in

[00:06:45] case they needed some ideas or they can use them, you know,

[00:06:48] themselves. So we have both for sure.

[00:06:51] Tell us about the user of Wedge. What's that company look like?

[00:06:54] What's their what's their demo? How many people they hiring?

[00:06:58] Yeah, it's you know, it's interesting. We're relatively

[00:07:01] industry agnostic. We just aren't helping companies with

[00:07:04] like a CFO or a CEO or an executive role.

[00:07:07] Right. It would be we would be defined in the high volume use case.

[00:07:11] We have, you know, a rather large crypto organization that

[00:07:15] uses us to hire customer success reps in Bulgaria to make

[00:07:19] sure they can speak English. We have some fast food,

[00:07:22] quick service restaurant chains. They use us literally to

[00:07:25] replace the whole full interview. It's just if they do this

[00:07:28] moving to the next step. We have quite a few YMCA gyms in

[00:07:32] the fitness world that would use us from lifeguards to

[00:07:35] you know, staff staff managers as well as fitness trainers.

[00:07:39] So it we cover a wide range. We in the in the broader

[00:07:43] video interviewing category, we'd probably be in the SMB to

[00:07:46] meet a mid market. We certainly do have some enterprise

[00:07:49] clients, but I would say for the most part we fall into the

[00:07:52] the SMB mid market category. And again, it's pretty

[00:07:55] industry agnostic. We've had a wide range of different use

[00:07:58] cases, which has been awesome to see just kind of avoiding

[00:08:01] that that executive type role.

[00:08:03] Where in workflow? I'll go ahead, right?

[00:08:05] What I've always liked about Wedge and others that are

[00:08:09] that are out there is a simplicity.

[00:08:11] Of this model, right? So I was going to ask because I've

[00:08:15] always been curious why asynchronous over, you know, live

[00:08:19] interviewing, you know, different game, right? It's a

[00:08:21] whole different thing. What I've always liked about is a

[00:08:24] simplicity of this. You log in, do it on your own time,

[00:08:27] record, send, go to the next step.

[00:08:31] That's what I've always found that to be to be something

[00:08:35] that I really liked about what you guys are doing.

[00:08:38] So kudos to you.

[00:08:39] Yeah, thank you. And what's interesting and you guys,

[00:08:42] the experts in this space and be curious if you're seeing

[00:08:44] this too majority of people were talking to one of their

[00:08:48] greatest issues right now is candidate ghosting for people

[00:08:51] who don't know the industry term. Somebody applies for a

[00:08:53] job and they don't show up for the interview or they

[00:08:55] apply for the job and they don't show up for the zoom.

[00:08:57] So one of the benefits to asynchronous is they are

[00:09:00] completing this on their own time.

[00:09:02] So you've removed the issue of ghosting altogether.

[00:09:05] If they don't do it, they don't do it. If they do it,

[00:09:06] they did it and we have been able to in most use cases

[00:09:09] reduce candidate ghosting by 80 to 90% because it shows

[00:09:13] that a candidate has done one simple step and they're much

[00:09:16] more likely to show up to that in person interview or

[00:09:18] that zoom call. I'm not trying to get rid of zoom.

[00:09:21] I'm not trying to get rid of, you know, live interviews,

[00:09:23] but what we're trying to do is make the time that

[00:09:26] you're spending synchronously or live with that person

[00:09:29] much more effective and much more likely to happen.

[00:09:31] And that's where the benefit of a tool like asynchronous comes up.

[00:09:34] We're in a workflow, are we? What's it connected to inside

[00:09:39] of kind of a tech stack if you will?

[00:09:43] Yeah, so we're connected and partnered with quite a few

[00:09:47] of the different applicant tracking systems out there.

[00:09:49] We love our partners with applicant pro, jazz HR,

[00:09:51] lever, greenhouse and more.

[00:09:53] So we basically can integrate with any solution out there.

[00:09:57] I would say probably 80% of our customers are using some form

[00:10:01] of our HRS or an ATS. We also have some direct users

[00:10:05] who don't want it plugged in for whatever reason or they just

[00:10:08] may not have an ATS altogether. So we certainly see both.

[00:10:11] We have found that the use case is usually better with an ATS

[00:10:15] just because it's less of a headache, you know,

[00:10:17] for the HR manager bopping around different tools.

[00:10:19] It can all live in one system and we like that.

[00:10:21] We like partnering versus trying to be the end all platform.

[00:10:24] We'd rather partner it out quite a bit.

[00:10:26] And then typically in the workflow, it would be in one of two

[00:10:30] different use cases for the most part.

[00:10:33] Either it's right apart of the application.

[00:10:35] So we have some McDonald's who literally have a QR code scan

[00:10:39] it answer first name, last name, email three questions

[00:10:42] by video through wedge and then that goes right to their

[00:10:45] store manager and they say, yep, hire them,

[00:10:47] yep bring them in for the next interview or no chance.

[00:10:49] That's probably a third of our use case.

[00:10:52] The other, you know, three quarters would fall into

[00:10:55] or two thirds would fall into a phone screen replacement.

[00:10:59] So candidate applied, reviewed their resume or looked at

[00:11:02] their application say, yep, what's the next step?

[00:11:05] Typically that would be scheduling a phone screen.

[00:11:07] Instead they would invite a candidate to a wedge and then

[00:11:10] move them on to the next step.

[00:11:11] So usually replacing that preliminary interview or that

[00:11:14] sort of first phone screen.

[00:11:16] Usually those are the two use cases that we see some

[00:11:18] exceptions for that covers the vast majority.

[00:11:21] Do you find that most clients are offering wedge prior to

[00:11:26] a human reaching out to somebody or even reviewing their

[00:11:30] application they just submit the application,

[00:11:34] they immediately get a link or they immediately get pushed

[00:11:36] over in the wedge.

[00:11:37] Kind of like I'm thinking like an appointment center

[00:11:40] like if you fill out something for whatever

[00:11:44] SaaS based software that's out there,

[00:11:46] someone calls you think you're getting a consultation

[00:11:49] or you think you're going through some questions and

[00:11:52] they're just like, oh no, no, I'm just qualifying you to get

[00:11:55] you to the appointment.

[00:11:56] I never go to the next step after that.

[00:11:58] I'm so pissed off that that has happened.

[00:12:00] I just don't know what I'm wondering like where are most

[00:12:03] of your clients saying you applied that's good enough,

[00:12:06] go do this and this is going to qualify you to even

[00:12:09] get to it.

[00:12:11] So I'll give an example of our own hiring right now.

[00:12:14] So we're hiring a customer success manager and I think

[00:12:16] I looked yesterday, we had like 115 candidates,

[00:12:19] candidates apply probably 70 right around 70 actually did

[00:12:23] the wedge.

[00:12:24] So we didn't interact with them other than the invitation to

[00:12:27] complete a wedge until they did it.

[00:12:29] We reviewed it and then out of those called 70 videos,

[00:12:32] we picked the 10 we wanted to interview.

[00:12:34] So you think about the value at obviously I'm biased

[00:12:37] because it's my own product, but like the value at is

[00:12:40] we went from 111 that we would have worked on

[00:12:43] scheduling 111 interviews, right?

[00:12:46] Instead of doing that we had them do wedges.

[00:12:48] So we eliminated the 40 that just didn't do it at all.

[00:12:50] So that's time safe.

[00:12:52] Then out of 70 they all did it.

[00:12:54] We had a chance to watch rather than a 30 minute or an

[00:12:56] hour long interview were probably half of them weren't

[00:12:58] going to show up.

[00:12:59] They completed this and then now we got to pick

[00:13:01] the 10 that we want to dive deeper with and

[00:13:03] spend more time with.

[00:13:04] We were able to because of some things somebody said

[00:13:06] or a response to something or locate whatever it may be,

[00:13:09] we were able to whittle that what would have been

[00:13:12] 70 phone screens down to 10 that are all really high quality,

[00:13:16] you know, phone screen or high quality interviews,

[00:13:19] interviews right and that allows us to, you know,

[00:13:22] really spend time more effectively.

[00:13:24] So long way of answering it's typically the last touch point

[00:13:30] before a human interaction.

[00:13:32] The exception would be sometimes we would go hand in hand

[00:13:36] or right before right after an assessment.

[00:13:39] So depending upon the needs of the position,

[00:13:41] you might ask a candidate to complete an assessment.

[00:13:44] If they pass that then invite them to do a wedge or if you

[00:13:47] like the wedge, you invite them to do an assessment and

[00:13:49] then an interview.

[00:13:50] Sometimes that happens.

[00:13:51] We're not competing with assessments at all.

[00:13:52] It's just where in the workflow we would partner with them.

[00:13:55] Now or in the future our customers going to want

[00:13:58] you to stack rank those with AI and other tools

[00:14:04] to be able to say, yeah it's great that we got it

[00:14:07] down to those 40 but you used the word whittle.

[00:14:10] But that's still human being still doing the whittling.

[00:14:14] In my head, I don't know how technology would work.

[00:14:17] Right in my head, in my head it'd be nice to then give

[00:14:20] the three candidates I should really, really spend time with.

[00:14:24] Yeah so there are some, I won't name names,

[00:14:27] there are some other players in our industry,

[00:14:29] specifically in our category who have doubled down

[00:14:32] on the whole concept of predictive hiring based upon a

[00:14:35] video and that's open the door for some scrutiny,

[00:14:38] understandably.

[00:14:39] Great technology, brilliant minds building it together

[00:14:42] but open some scrutiny so what I've wanted to be cautious of

[00:14:45] is not telling the company hire these people

[00:14:47] but what I want to do is like first step so as I mentioned

[00:14:50] we have 300,000 videos, a million and a half minutes

[00:14:52] of reporting.

[00:14:53] I want to start to run large language model reports

[00:14:55] paired against job descriptions, reports paired

[00:14:58] against hired not hired data and come back

[00:15:00] and say hey company XYZ you had 13 candidates

[00:15:04] and the ones that said um you hired them,

[00:15:07] the ones that said um 12 times versus the 13th time

[00:15:10] you did hire them or not.

[00:15:11] Things like that where it's hey here's more

[00:15:13] that you would not have necessarily known about

[00:15:15] or here's just more information about the candidate

[00:15:18] not telling you to hire them but here's a lot more

[00:15:20] that you should dive into.

[00:15:22] That's sort of the first step and then obviously

[00:15:24] we want to start to get into based upon trends

[00:15:27] of what you've hired here's the next likely

[00:15:29] candidate to fit that role.

[00:15:30] That's where we want, we certainly want to get there

[00:15:32] but I want to be very cautious of you know everybody

[00:15:34] and their sister talks about AI.

[00:15:36] I want to be very, very cautious about I don't

[00:15:38] want to come and say this is the person you need

[00:15:40] to hire I want to come and say here's more

[00:15:42] information that you probably might have missed

[00:15:44] at a quick glance to make help you make better

[00:15:46] decisions and I think we're from a technology

[00:15:48] standpoint we're very close to that um

[00:15:51] and that's kind of our next phase of evolution

[00:15:54] if you will.

[00:15:55] And that will then allow you to go back

[00:15:58] into like as you said previously

[00:16:01] interview people who previously

[00:16:03] completed the wedge right and say hey

[00:16:06] you're posting for this job today but you

[00:16:09] have these seven people that went through

[00:16:11] maybe for a different position but based

[00:16:14] on what we're seeing they potentially

[00:16:16] potentially meet the qualifications do you

[00:16:18] want to see them?

[00:16:19] For sure and that and one of the things

[00:16:21] that I'm um and you're two brilliant minds

[00:16:25] uh maybe we have a separate discussion about

[00:16:28] this but one of the things I'm thinking

[00:16:29] about is like think about the value of

[00:16:31] retargeting candidates that applied but

[00:16:33] didn't get the job right so like I have

[00:16:35] silver medalist?

[00:16:37] For sure I have 70 candidates that

[00:16:39] applied for our position we're going to

[00:16:41] hire one so 69 candidates didn't get the

[00:16:44] job what do we do with them that are and

[00:16:46] they're rock star candidates there right

[00:16:48] there are tons of great talent to people

[00:16:50] that and there's also and this is

[00:16:52] something that like I don't think

[00:16:53] people quite fully understand the

[00:16:55] value of the data there's nothing more

[00:16:57] signaling than a candidate that is

[00:16:59] motivated to do a video interview that

[00:17:01] is in the job market right now some of

[00:17:03] the holy grail is finding people who are

[00:17:05] actively looking for a job well you don't

[00:17:07] always know that because you don't want to

[00:17:09] publicize it you may be working in

[00:17:11] another position whatever it may be we

[00:17:13] now have real-time data of who's

[00:17:15] applying for a job showing that they

[00:17:17] are interested in applying for another

[00:17:19] role or looking at something else that

[00:17:21] is where there's a goldmine and we

[00:17:23] haven't bluntly we haven't quite

[00:17:25] done that yet but there's so much value

[00:17:27] sitting you sitting right there one of

[00:17:29] things that for folks that are listening

[00:17:31] to asynchronous is you can

[00:17:34] standardize interviews so what you ask

[00:17:37] one candidate you can now ask all the

[00:17:39] candidates the exact same thing which

[00:17:41] again I'm careful to say eliminates

[00:17:44] bias I think it helps reduce bias

[00:17:48] right and I've done a bunch of recent

[00:17:51] podcasts on neurodiversity or just

[00:17:53] neurodiversity just go on there

[00:17:55] things like that so now it's like okay

[00:17:57] standardization is great up until the

[00:18:00] point where you have talent it doesn't

[00:18:02] work for and you're actually ruling

[00:18:04] people out because it is standard it's

[00:18:07] not the way that they can consume data

[00:18:09] etc whatever play for you get

[00:18:12] questions all the time about bias

[00:18:14] about video interviewing bias right so

[00:18:17] what's your what's your latest take

[00:18:19] or what's your what's your take right

[00:18:21] on when people ask you prospects I

[00:18:24] know you get asked this question every

[00:18:26] day what's your bit yeah and I got I

[00:18:29] gotta give you know credit to you

[00:18:31] William because obviously through the

[00:18:33] years you certainly helped with this

[00:18:35] quite a bit so number one that the

[00:18:37] majority of bias in general is one

[00:18:39] on one reviewing of information

[00:18:41] whether that's a resume whether that's

[00:18:43] a phone screen whether that's looking

[00:18:45] at a dinner menu you are biased one

[00:18:47] person looking at one piece of

[00:18:49] information and the moment you

[00:18:51] introduce a second set of eyes on to

[00:18:54] a piece of information by nature you

[00:18:56] have reduced bias in some some degree

[00:18:58] not necessarily limited but you have

[00:19:00] reduced it one of the cool tools or

[00:19:02] the abilities of wedge is the ability

[00:19:04] to share and to your term William to

[00:19:06] collaborate with other people on the

[00:19:08] team so William let's say you're the

[00:19:10] CEO Ryan you're the CFO and I'm the

[00:19:12] HR manager if I have a candidate

[00:19:14] come in and I do a phone screen

[00:19:16] that the the bias or lack there

[00:19:18] is a candidate phone screen taking

[00:19:20] notes to send to you with a wedge

[00:19:22] you can literally send the same exact

[00:19:24] piece of information that all three of

[00:19:26] us are looking at the benefit from a

[00:19:29] bias mitigation or reduction is that

[00:19:32] maybe people don't have time as

[00:19:34] companies to phone screen every single

[00:19:36] candidate with three or four people

[00:19:38] or five people on it or interview that

[00:19:40] with a wedge you can take and share

[00:19:42] it and make for really nice

[00:19:44] collaboration very very simply and

[00:19:46] you're not going to hire this candidate based

[00:19:48] upon this response or whatever that

[00:19:50] looks like and you're instantly able

[00:19:52] to reduce bias in some regards quite a

[00:19:54] bit and that's something that we

[00:19:56] encourage companies is the

[00:19:58] collaboration component is certainly

[00:20:00] a huge asset in this conversation

[00:20:02] versus a hindrance do they get to

[00:20:04] put their notes or do they get

[00:20:06] the great people out and put their

[00:20:08] notes so collaboratively

[00:20:10] okay again in this scenario we're

[00:20:12] three different positions in that

[00:20:14] way and we're going to have a

[00:20:16] conversation about zero stars or

[00:20:18] whatever the grading system is

[00:20:20] and here are my notes why and then

[00:20:22] Ryan looks at it goes yeah it's

[00:20:24] actually four stars here

[00:20:26] my reasons why and if you

[00:20:28] read the read look at that go

[00:20:30] yeah zero stars and here are

[00:20:32] my reasons a lot so like now

[00:20:34] we can have a conversation about

[00:20:36] not necessarily the rating part

[00:20:38] but just understand like everybody's

[00:20:40] notes is that am I getting

[00:20:42] this case but a lot of people that

[00:20:44] we work with higher customer

[00:20:46] success roles so for our given position

[00:20:48] three people on my team

[00:20:50] myself Rob and Kelly we all

[00:20:52] went through and watched all the videos and we rated

[00:20:54] our instances and then out

[00:20:56] of that it aggregated the top

[00:20:58] 10 and Rob scheduled follow-up 10

[00:21:00] interviews with those with those candidates

[00:21:02] and so we were able to add notes you're able

[00:21:04] to add stars and some people are more

[00:21:06] detailed than not obviously there's a little bit

[00:21:08] of that and you want to make sure you're

[00:21:10] able to allow for ratings to live

[00:21:12] in the ATS as well too we know some

[00:21:14] people want it all there but also if you're using

[00:21:16] wedge to stand alone you can do it all

[00:21:18] right in there so yes very long-winded

[00:21:20] way of saying yes you can

[00:21:22] and my mind I know you're not doing

[00:21:24] this now and you may not even love

[00:21:26] it but my mind goes

[00:21:28] well this is a fantastic place for AI

[00:21:30] this is where you

[00:21:32] could take your notes my notes

[00:21:34] Williams notes and tell us

[00:21:36] where the differences are or

[00:21:38] where the similarities are and where we feel

[00:21:40] they would be good fits on that

[00:21:42] fair fair for sure absolutely

[00:21:44] yeah but that could

[00:21:46] be me trying to take the easy way

[00:21:48] out there no I think it's

[00:21:50] no because AI

[00:21:52] and it's in one of its purest forms or one

[00:21:54] of the benefits it connects dots that we

[00:21:56] can't see right

[00:21:58] right right right so

[00:22:00] I think in that way even if you did it

[00:22:02] metadata wise right and

[00:22:04] you looked at all of those notes

[00:22:06] and you looked at like all those things

[00:22:08] to didn't see what's the discrepancy

[00:22:10] between one and the other

[00:22:12] I think that would be fantastic again

[00:22:14] getting back to your large language model

[00:22:16] and building it off of your own text on me

[00:22:18] the other thing too is

[00:22:20] there is also a bit of

[00:22:22] a fact check around

[00:22:24] are the notes that I'm taking

[00:22:26] supportive of the job description

[00:22:28] or not supportive of the job description

[00:22:30] so like I could have called a candidate

[00:22:32] out for certain piece and the job

[00:22:34] and running a language model

[00:22:36] could come back and say well you just

[00:22:38] critique this candidate on something that's not

[00:22:40] relevant to the job description

[00:22:42] that's not a good reason to eliminate them right

[00:22:44] and so again you got to be careful of how far

[00:22:46] down that rabbit hole you go but there's

[00:22:48] a lot there too which we're

[00:22:50] actually exploring. How does one interact

[00:22:52] with job descriptions

[00:22:54] like and why I'm asking that question

[00:22:56] is there

[00:22:58] if they would you say 80

[00:23:00] something percent create their own

[00:23:02] custom questions is that

[00:23:04] based not even maybe not now but

[00:23:06] in the future is that based on

[00:23:08] what the job description is

[00:23:10] you know so

[00:23:12] they're not asking questions and we're not standardizing

[00:23:14] questions for the candidates

[00:23:16] that are really

[00:23:18] not great questions as it relates to

[00:23:20] the job description

[00:23:22] you know right now we

[00:23:24] don't do a ton of

[00:23:26] that partly because

[00:23:28] you know

[00:23:30] some companies would say

[00:23:32] we just want to make sure the candidate

[00:23:34] does the video we don't necessarily

[00:23:36] care that much about what they said and I'm not

[00:23:38] saying that's a good use case but

[00:23:40] that's where like

[00:23:42] we have a virtual assistant

[00:23:44] a company that hires a lot of virtual

[00:23:46] assistants to use us and

[00:23:48] their one question is tell us a joke

[00:23:50] not even a question just a statement tell us a joke

[00:23:52] and that's their interview and mainly

[00:23:54] because as a virtual assistant

[00:23:56] you have to have the ability to

[00:23:58] be able to be you know charming

[00:24:00] be able to be communicative

[00:24:02] be able to engage with anybody

[00:24:04] and that's just seeing how they respond

[00:24:06] to being on the spot like that

[00:24:08] is something that they have found is a very very beneficial tool

[00:24:10] to successful candidates

[00:24:12] so

[00:24:14] that doesn't necessarily indicate anything on the job description

[00:24:16] if you will but it's very effective for them

[00:24:18] and that's not recommending

[00:24:20] that but that's just why we probably

[00:24:22] we've shied away a little bit from that

[00:24:24] where do you find most of your customers

[00:24:26] love you the most

[00:24:28] from

[00:24:30] what benefiting tool or what industry

[00:24:32] or like

[00:24:34] how do you say about wedge in general

[00:24:36] what your average client

[00:24:38] what customer

[00:24:40] when they look at wedge

[00:24:42] what did they say this is why

[00:24:44] we are using wedge

[00:24:46] I believe two things

[00:24:48] and then I want to give a really cool example

[00:24:50] so I think we have the

[00:24:52] easiest to use platform in the market

[00:24:54] if you guys say let's get going

[00:24:56] you can start today

[00:24:58] and that's not a fake that's real

[00:25:00] we have clients who get started the day of

[00:25:02] I don't think there's a lot of technology out there

[00:25:04] like that especially in our space

[00:25:06] we have the best candidate

[00:25:08] experience on the market

[00:25:10] so that is a friendly user experience

[00:25:12] for the candidate I think so many HR

[00:25:14] tech companies

[00:25:16] and VC dollars go towards making a beneficial

[00:25:18] tool for the business

[00:25:20] but they forget about the candidate at the

[00:25:22] whole point of why we're in this industry

[00:25:24] is the people business and so

[00:25:26] I believe we have built

[00:25:28] the greatest candidate experience platform

[00:25:30] for video interviewing

[00:25:32] one of the coolest examples

[00:25:34] was I got asked to speak

[00:25:36] at one of the YMCA

[00:25:38] CHRO conferences

[00:25:40] and one of our clients who's a YMCA

[00:25:42] she said hey would you mind if I talk for a few minutes on your behalf

[00:25:44] I said please

[00:25:46] have that all the time that you want

[00:25:48] I got way too many good bits

[00:25:50] so one of the things that she shared

[00:25:52] was

[00:25:54] like most HR teams they're underwhelmed

[00:25:56] and understaffed

[00:25:58] and it took them 7-10 days

[00:26:00] to get back to candidates that applied

[00:26:02] for a job and to schedule the next step

[00:26:04] just because they had too many candidates

[00:26:06] not enough time

[00:26:08] well if that candidate is applying for a lifeguard position

[00:26:10] they've probably applied to 10 other roles and they've already moved on

[00:26:12] wedge allowed them

[00:26:14] an immediate touch point to get the candidate

[00:26:16] engaged in the process

[00:26:18] and if the candidate feel like they're being

[00:26:20] valued in this whole step of the way

[00:26:22] even given the

[00:26:24] under-resourced organization of the HR side of things

[00:26:26] and that has been a use case that I think

[00:26:28] has drastically helped

[00:26:30] a lot of organizations

[00:26:32] and again the other piece too

[00:26:34] and this is the most relevant I think in today's day

[00:26:36] and age this wasn't always true

[00:26:38] but candidate ghosting is at an all time high

[00:26:40] and that's not going to change

[00:26:42] and as long as we have

[00:26:44] things like instant apply

[00:26:46] we're going to run into scenarios where

[00:26:48] people are just not interested in any of the roles they applied for

[00:26:50] and wedge allows you to

[00:26:52] vet out those people very very quickly

[00:26:54] and effectively

[00:26:56] all around I gave you probably more than

[00:26:58] just two points that I gave you four points

[00:27:00] but I think those are areas that our candidates love us

[00:27:02] and why we've been able to weather

[00:27:04] the storms of HR tech which is not always that easy

[00:27:06] it's okay

[00:27:08] earlier you did three fourths to two thirds

[00:27:10] it was seamless

[00:27:12] no one noticed

[00:27:14] I'm not, yeah yeah yeah

[00:27:16] I circled back

[00:27:18] it was very nice

[00:27:20] you're like one third

[00:27:22] and then three fourths

[00:27:24] and then three eighths

[00:27:26] and we got there okay guys

[00:27:28] 8000

[00:27:30] of our clients out of our roster

[00:27:32] of 40 clients is fantastic

[00:27:34] of the 300 clients

[00:27:36] that I have 12,000

[00:27:38] of them vote yes to wedge

[00:27:40] take us through two things

[00:27:42] one is mobile first

[00:27:44] mobile responsive

[00:27:46] and the other is advice

[00:27:48] that you give both candidates

[00:27:50] and the people reviewing these photos

[00:27:52] videos in terms of making just a great

[00:27:54] video yeah yeah

[00:27:56] so wedge any browser

[00:27:58] any device we don't require

[00:28:00] a mobile app candidates hate downloading a mobile

[00:28:02] app turns out we have

[00:28:04] we have taken the stance

[00:28:06] of we just want to be an internet browser

[00:28:08] first platform with as long as you have an internet browser

[00:28:10] and a camera you can record a wedge

[00:28:12] any browser any device

[00:28:14] and that's

[00:28:16] incredibly important to us I would say probably

[00:28:18] 70% of candidates complete

[00:28:20] the wedge on mobile probably 30%

[00:28:22] on desktop there's not really

[00:28:24] a whole lot of data that suggests why

[00:28:26] there's no roles that are more likely than the other

[00:28:28] it just kind of goes a little bit like

[00:28:30] who really cares right they're getting it done

[00:28:32] right and then the

[00:28:34] oh the advice to candidates and companies

[00:28:36] I think number one

[00:28:38] company go through the experience

[00:28:40] so we have some companies that might ask

[00:28:42] 30 questions a part of the interview

[00:28:44] and they've never gone through it themselves and you go through that

[00:28:46] you're like oh maybe we don't need that

[00:28:48] many right so I think for

[00:28:50] company simply like and this is not just video

[00:28:52] interviewing this is apply for

[00:28:54] a job you're posting so you get to experience

[00:28:56] what you're putting people through and

[00:28:58] asking them to go through yeah if you

[00:29:00] can't do that then you should be posting the job

[00:29:02] to begin with so that's that's why candidate

[00:29:04] side I think video

[00:29:06] today is still nerve wrecking you're still looking

[00:29:08] at yourself nobody loves the way they look

[00:29:10] blah blah blah blah number

[00:29:12] one take a deep breath and

[00:29:14] I and we always encourage retakes

[00:29:16] takes whether you get retakes or no retakes

[00:29:18] I think take a deep breath and speak

[00:29:20] very very

[00:29:22] emphasize more simply than sophisticated

[00:29:24] and same thing with public speaking

[00:29:26] right the simpler you can be

[00:29:28] and just kind of more rawness of who you

[00:29:30] are as a person number one

[00:29:32] if you're authentic and the person chooses

[00:29:34] not to hire you that's a good thing because

[00:29:36] they didn't want the real you and if you're authentic and they

[00:29:38] chose to hire you they're hiring

[00:29:40] you for who you actually are and that's going to make a much better

[00:29:42] connection for employment for

[00:29:44] for deeper relationships and so

[00:29:46] you know then there's simple tricks like have

[00:29:48] good lighting you know make sure there's

[00:29:50] not kids screaming in the background there's there's plenty

[00:29:52] of things like that it's one of the reasons

[00:29:54] we allow

[00:29:56] practice questions just so

[00:29:58] you can actually hear what you sound like and you know what

[00:30:00] it looks like is you know on zoom you don't always

[00:30:02] know what the background looks like you don't always know you got

[00:30:04] hair messed up or whatever it is so we certainly

[00:30:06] incurred that whether it's

[00:30:08] mobile or not you know that doesn't

[00:30:10] matter as much it works great both ways so

[00:30:12] well

[00:30:14] you know in so

[00:30:16] Matt when you introduced

[00:30:18] wedge and you told

[00:30:20] us what wedge does

[00:30:22] you said that

[00:30:24] in a very simple matter of fact

[00:30:26] way which is kind of like

[00:30:28] the advice you're giving here but

[00:30:30] we speak to a lot of founders

[00:30:32] of companies and they have a hell of a time

[00:30:34] explaining

[00:30:36] what they do right and they try to make

[00:30:38] it sound exotic and amazing

[00:30:40] and you're just like yeah we just we

[00:30:42] interview flip your phone interview we're

[00:30:44] done next next

[00:30:46] and that's it so so yeah so

[00:30:48] I agree with what you're saying there and I think

[00:30:50] it's really it's an easy thing

[00:30:52] to understand what you guys are what you guys

[00:30:54] are doing where

[00:30:56] when I'm going to steal your

[00:30:58] question here

[00:31:00] because you just are so

[00:31:02] amazing that it's rubbing off on me

[00:31:04] so

[00:31:06] hey Pinocchio keep it in your

[00:31:08] pants

[00:31:10] where are we

[00:31:12] where as I go oh so the

[00:31:14] okay so you're giving a demo right and

[00:31:16] so William always asked this question

[00:31:18] and I love it so

[00:31:20] where in the demo

[00:31:22] how far along in a demo or what part

[00:31:24] of the demo do you get to

[00:31:26] when you know if you get to this point

[00:31:28] the

[00:31:30] prospect on the other end of the line is like

[00:31:32] yeah I get it

[00:31:34] and you know that you've got them hooked

[00:31:36] so

[00:31:38] I it is taken so

[00:31:40] I want to touch

[00:31:42] point on the easy or the simplicity

[00:31:44] of me explaining and then

[00:31:46] segue into this because I think it's it goes hand in hand

[00:31:48] I'm pretty sure the speaker John Maxwell

[00:31:50] somebody was like

[00:31:52] how are you so good at public speaking he's like well I've done it 12,000

[00:31:54] times so like by nature you know you get pretty good at it

[00:31:56] so for me I have been at this quite a while

[00:31:58] and I've repeated the same bit over and over

[00:32:00] and over and over and over and over and over and over

[00:32:02] and over and over again and you get to a point where you're like number one I feel

[00:32:04] super confident number two I've eliminated

[00:32:06] like I'm not that smart I'm pretty dumb actually

[00:32:08] but I've been able to articulate it

[00:32:10] with the understanding that the person listening to me

[00:32:12] doesn't know what we do

[00:32:14] and they don't really care and my job

[00:32:16] is to make it compelling enough that they want to

[00:32:18] ask one more question if I

[00:32:20] get somebody asking a question I've got them

[00:32:22] I've got them I've got them that's where

[00:32:24] I'm good and then it's once it gets

[00:32:26] sophisticated I pass it over to our CTO

[00:32:28] or smarter people on our team

[00:32:30] so in the demo realm

[00:32:32] one thing I totally

[00:32:34] flipped the script on is

[00:32:36] the very first thing I do

[00:32:38] is I show them a wedge I show them a completed

[00:32:40] wedge a candidate who has gone

[00:32:42] through the product and in the first

[00:32:44] 10 seconds they're like I get this now

[00:32:46] because for a while again

[00:32:48] pitching this product to either

[00:32:50] either maybe

[00:32:52] unsophisticated tech buyers or people who

[00:32:54] don't know what asynchronous video interviewing is

[00:32:56] it would take me 30 minutes and they still wouldn't get it

[00:32:58] and so now I've shown them this

[00:33:00] is exactly what it is this is the end

[00:33:02] result of you using our

[00:33:04] service now let me show you how we

[00:33:06] get there and that to me has

[00:33:08] helped our our close rate

[00:33:10] it's helped just

[00:33:12] remove a lot of BS in the whole demoing

[00:33:14] process and quite frankly a lot of

[00:33:16] confusion in discussions with

[00:33:18] folks and so

[00:33:20] usually you know in some point of the process

[00:33:22] when somebody says I like this about

[00:33:24] the product I like that it's simple I like that I can customize

[00:33:26] questions I like that we can custom brand I

[00:33:28] like that it integrates other ATS if

[00:33:30] I get any of those done over with

[00:33:32] sign are the rightness to check

[00:33:34] that that's how we

[00:33:36] that's how we win and

[00:33:38] again we have gotten like I was

[00:33:40] batting probably 20% two years

[00:33:42] ago we now probably bat 90%

[00:33:44] because also we're pitching to people that we

[00:33:46] know are going to be buyers are we pitching to people that we know

[00:33:48] this is not me just spewing crap getting

[00:33:50] anybody by our product and figuring out who the use case

[00:33:52] is these are people who I know

[00:33:54] I can offer you value and I'll be the first

[00:33:56] to say now it wasn't the case two years

[00:33:58] ago I will be the first to say this is

[00:34:00] not going to work for you I know for a fact

[00:34:02] if you don't have any candidate volume we're not a tool

[00:34:04] for you if you're hiring CEOs or needing

[00:34:06] executive search firm we're not the tool for you

[00:34:08] if you have volume candidate ghosting

[00:34:10] need it need to reduce

[00:34:12] a funnel or need to reduce your time to fill

[00:34:14] all those use cases I can help you in some way shape or form

[00:34:16] and that's that's just

[00:34:18] I think drastically help us get a lot

[00:34:20] more simple and what we're pitching and

[00:34:22] and yeah so you got me all fired up it's like

[00:34:24] I

[00:34:26] what do you think that we know what do you

[00:34:28] think the responsibility is

[00:34:30] to teach customers

[00:34:32] how to consume video interviewing

[00:34:34] you know I mean like

[00:34:36] do you

[00:34:38] I could see them taking

[00:34:40] I could see them getting the questions and then again

[00:34:42] because it's a collaboration they're going to

[00:34:44] put their notes in somebody else can put

[00:34:46] their notes in all that stuff but I can see them

[00:34:48] kind of like I didn't really

[00:34:50] I didn't really like I didn't like her

[00:34:52] you know I didn't like her background or

[00:34:54] you know I didn't she spoke really

[00:34:56] fast gives a

[00:34:58] shit you know it's like like these weird

[00:35:00] weird biases like

[00:35:02] you know her cats were on her

[00:35:04] bed you know I don't want

[00:35:06] to hire a person that's a cat person you know

[00:35:08] stuff looks just

[00:35:10] but I but I can see people

[00:35:12] not understanding that they

[00:35:14] have those biases

[00:35:16] so it's like what type of what type of responsibility

[00:35:18] do we have to teach them

[00:35:20] hey here's the things to care about

[00:35:22] mm-hmm you know

[00:35:24] I think you lay out

[00:35:26] expectations of

[00:35:28] okay what are you looking

[00:35:30] for in this candidate I know the job description

[00:35:32] but when you see it and you know

[00:35:34] it or you get most of it what is that

[00:35:36] now are you eliminating

[00:35:38] somebody on a video because of something

[00:35:40] other than that if that's the case

[00:35:42] you are implementing buys that

[00:35:44] same thing with a phone screen right if I'm

[00:35:46] taking a phone screen and I have to do it at 8 o'clock

[00:35:48] at night and there there's some subtle noise in the

[00:35:50] background but I'm focused on there should I get

[00:35:52] removed because I was busy no

[00:35:54] because I took the time to actually do it is

[00:35:56] busyness or job is lack

[00:35:58] of busyness a job requirement a part of the wreck

[00:36:00] no so don't eliminate somebody because it has

[00:36:02] nothing to do with the actual job or

[00:36:04] what you're trying to hire the person for I think

[00:36:06] that rains true for you know

[00:36:08] looking at resumes I think that remains remains

[00:36:10] true for like a

[00:36:12] miss right via zoom or in person right if you

[00:36:14] like the person they're charming you guys

[00:36:16] relate on a certain joke that doesn't

[00:36:18] necessarily mean they're going to be a good hire

[00:36:20] now I'm only about as good as charming

[00:36:22] and that's about all I've got anyway so I hope

[00:36:24] people don't eliminate me if I ever look for a job

[00:36:26] but with that being said I think it's really

[00:36:28] hone in on what

[00:36:30] what expectations do you have on candidates

[00:36:32] to be a rockstar candidate for your organization

[00:36:34] and those are the things that you are focusing

[00:36:36] on understanding about people

[00:36:38] in the process whether it's video phone

[00:36:40] screens interviewing live resumes

[00:36:42] any of that focus on that

[00:36:46] so alright so final question I think

[00:36:48] on my end is we

[00:36:50] we got it to all the goodies we got to

[00:36:52] all the good stuff we got you fired up

[00:36:54] about demos and

[00:36:56] and all that but we never

[00:36:58] heard your origin story

[00:37:00] not where you were born

[00:37:02] we're talking wedge give us the

[00:37:04] origin story of wedge

[00:37:06] that was born a poor black

[00:37:08] and

[00:37:10] and I got immigrated over here yeah

[00:37:12] so

[00:37:14] Ann Arbor, Michigan I

[00:37:16] started mowing a few lawns

[00:37:18] as a chubby neighbor kid

[00:37:20] my first

[00:37:22] my first lawn that I mowed was a funeral

[00:37:24] home director and every time somebody in

[00:37:26] the community died he would call me at

[00:37:28] midnight and have me go mow the next

[00:37:30] day so I had job security

[00:37:32] when people in my community died

[00:37:34] I was 16 years old

[00:37:36] I read obituaries in the

[00:37:38] newspaper and that's where

[00:37:40] my friend started

[00:37:42] we just spoke with

[00:37:44] with Lux

[00:37:46] Lux so he

[00:37:48] will send you the link

[00:37:50] he studied 2000

[00:37:52] obituaries and did a TED talk on it

[00:37:54] really interesting

[00:37:56] so from

[00:37:58] studying obituaries mowing lawns

[00:38:00] business grew quite a bit

[00:38:02] I kept the business going

[00:38:04] while I was in college I went to college

[00:38:06] about three hours

[00:38:08] hired some people

[00:38:10] hired some more people business kept growing

[00:38:12] and I got approached by a property management

[00:38:14] company offered if I wanted to

[00:38:16] sell the business and had a chance to do

[00:38:18] that which is awesome definitely not rich

[00:38:20] or big tech exit but it was a cool

[00:38:22] you know got my first exit under my belt

[00:38:24] by 21 which is awesome and one

[00:38:26] of the things I started reflecting on was like

[00:38:28] I hired pretty well

[00:38:30] and I'd hired you know I probably interviewed 50 people

[00:38:32] probably hired 25 or 30 through the years

[00:38:34] and I didn't care if somebody knew how to mow

[00:38:36] lawn or weed whack or anything like that

[00:38:38] I cared can you be personable can I put

[00:38:40] you in front of my customers if I could do that

[00:38:42] I could teach you the skills needed

[00:38:44] so in this was six seven

[00:38:46] years ago in that

[00:38:48] timeframe one of the

[00:38:50] things I was thinking about

[00:38:52] was we have all these resumes and you

[00:38:54] have all these in person interviews and there's

[00:38:56] this gap there there's this

[00:38:58] there's this we look at paper we put so much

[00:39:00] stock in who that person is as an individual

[00:39:02] they show up for the first interview and you know like

[00:39:04] that's not a good fit or whatever that

[00:39:06] may be and so and so without

[00:39:08] again like any any good

[00:39:10] entrepreneur you go from mowing lawns to HR

[00:39:12] tech like a sociopath

[00:39:14] so you know to me

[00:39:16] exactly to me it was like I don't come from

[00:39:18] the industry don't care to come from the industry

[00:39:20] but it's like I think that there's a problem here that we

[00:39:22] can solve and I think there's a user base that

[00:39:24] needs what we have to offer and

[00:39:26] that's where it started and it's kind of

[00:39:28] all she wrote from there

[00:39:30] I love it my final question

[00:39:32] is too wrong one is

[00:39:34] what questions do you wish prospects

[00:39:36] asked you and two

[00:39:38] what are the list of

[00:39:40] knows that you get like what's the most

[00:39:42] common no

[00:39:44] and even if they don't say no explicitly

[00:39:46] they just don't move forward in the sales

[00:39:48] process yeah so I

[00:39:50] wish more prospect

[00:39:52] would ask us what is an appropriate

[00:39:54] completion rate

[00:39:56] so interesting of

[00:39:58] people that are applying what is

[00:40:00] a standard realm

[00:40:02] of practice so

[00:40:04] our global

[00:40:06] completion rate is about just

[00:40:08] under 50% it's like 48 or 49%

[00:40:10] meaning out of 10 candidates

[00:40:12] 4.8 or 5

[00:40:14] actually complete the video so

[00:40:16] follow up question is it bad that you've lost some

[00:40:18] candidates well if

[00:40:20] the completion rate was 10 or 20%

[00:40:22] yeah there's probably a process issue

[00:40:24] if your completion rate is 30 40 50 60 70%

[00:40:26] the ones falling off

[00:40:28] were actually not that interested in the job to begin with

[00:40:30] and that's where that explanation

[00:40:32] goes a long way for people

[00:40:34] where if they don't ask that question and they

[00:40:36] send out a bunch of invites

[00:40:38] and only half of them completed they're like whoa whoa whoa

[00:40:40] this is not good well you're actually limiting a lot

[00:40:42] of people that really weren't interested to begin with like some

[00:40:44] of that fall off is is okay

[00:40:46] the

[00:40:48] second part was why do people say no

[00:40:50] or why do they choose not to move forward

[00:40:52] right so

[00:40:54] more often than not the reason people

[00:40:56] choose not to go forward is it's harder

[00:40:58] to change than it is to change

[00:41:00] right there's this whole concept of adding

[00:41:02] anything new is daunting and

[00:41:04] challenging HR folks

[00:41:06] in general are

[00:41:08] typically risk averse or they

[00:41:10] have more incentive in their role to say

[00:41:12] no than to say yes so adding anything

[00:41:14] new how no matter how expensive

[00:41:16] no matter how how cost effective no matter

[00:41:18] how beneficial anything new comes

[00:41:20] across as scary or daunting

[00:41:22] or whatever it is

[00:41:24] three years ago four years ago now pre-covid

[00:41:26] the idea video freaked everybody

[00:41:28] out now it's an adoption that helps

[00:41:30] people understand quite a bit but it's

[00:41:32] interesting our customer base

[00:41:34] I don't really compete

[00:41:36] with anybody like very rarely

[00:41:38] am I going head to head with any of

[00:41:40] the other players in the space it's a zero

[00:41:42] to one game it's somebody who's never used

[00:41:44] a tool like ours before

[00:41:46] educating them to understand why the value

[00:41:48] at so it's a zero to

[00:41:50] one first time using our type of software

[00:41:52] and that's where you know is it

[00:41:54] an is it a no a lot of times no but

[00:41:56] it's making sure we're doing the best we

[00:41:58] possibly can to to walk through more as

[00:42:00] a consult consultative

[00:42:02] consultative

[00:42:04] yes that's what I was saying

[00:42:06] more got you more

[00:42:08] thank you thank you more that approach

[00:42:10] helps then buy it

[00:42:12] try it figure out how it works

[00:42:14] and good luck it's much more like hey

[00:42:16] we need to educate and once we do

[00:42:18] people get it pretty quickly

[00:42:20] drops my walks off stage

[00:42:22] yeah done and done baby done and done

[00:42:24] appreciate you so much thank you

[00:42:26] for coming on the show 100%

[00:42:28] 100% if you guys are still watching or listening

[00:42:30] please subscribe share

[00:42:32] us see us in public say hello

[00:42:34] and Matt's gonna send you all

[00:42:36] a signed coffee mug

[00:42:40] all right we'll see you all next time