Getting Inclusive AF with Katee & Jackye

[00:00:00] You're listening to Inclusive AF with Jackie Clayton and Katie Van Horn.

[00:00:10] Welcome to the Inclusive AF Podcast. This is Katie.

[00:00:14] And this is Jackie.

[00:00:17] And today is, what are we? We're two weeks out, right?

[00:00:21] We are, yes.

[00:00:24] And we are basically a month and a half out until January 20th.

[00:00:35] And so, therefore, how are we feeling, Jackie?

[00:00:39] End of days. We're celebrating the end of days.

[00:00:42] Yeah, we're celebrating the end of days. We're celebrating the end.

[00:00:46] Well, no, we're celebrating joining the Handmaid's Tale Club.

[00:00:53] Yes. Yes.

[00:00:55] Although I think both of us are in trouble. We're going to just have to be like,

[00:00:58] I didn't watch that series and I didn't read the book. Let me be very clear.

[00:01:02] But I feel like we're going to be more like the grandmothers because we are, there's no babies.

[00:01:10] No, that's not happening. And they wouldn't want them.

[00:01:14] No.

[00:01:16] I can't.

[00:01:18] I don't remember what happened to the old people. I don't know. I'm scared. I'm a little nervous about it.

[00:01:23] I have been listening to Dua Lipa's Don't Start Now song on loop.

[00:01:29] Okay.

[00:01:29] I like it.

[00:01:30] For everyone who wants me to do anything other than take care of mine in ours.

[00:01:38] Yes.

[00:01:39] I'm like, no.

[00:01:41] Right.

[00:01:42] There's no for that.

[00:01:43] This is the post, post election pre apocalypse.

[00:01:51] Oh, my God.

[00:01:54] Yeah, I, I just have.

[00:01:58] I have some thoughts. So I, here's what I'm worried about the most right now.

[00:02:04] Okay.

[00:02:05] And then I'm going to say what I'm excited about because I think we can't.

[00:02:09] Let's go before that. Let's talk about because we were in different places.

[00:02:13] We usually are online together having cocktails, like going through all the fields together.

[00:02:21] And this year, our whole posse was spread all apart.

[00:02:24] So let's talk about that November.

[00:02:27] Yeah.

[00:02:28] Yeah.

[00:02:29] Happening.

[00:02:30] So I was in Houston and I was with a bunch of folks from all over the globe.

[00:02:35] So I had folks from Germany, from Russia, from Poland, from truly from all over, Amia and, and then also obviously folks from Texas.

[00:02:48] And it was very interesting because, you know, the folks from Europe wanted to ask a lot of questions.

[00:02:54] And the folks from the US, I think all of us are so that it was very hard to even talk about.

[00:03:01] And that was, we're still in the, we're hopeful.

[00:03:04] We're thinking this is going to work out.

[00:03:06] Okay.

[00:03:07] We're thinking Kamala is going to win.

[00:03:08] But yet it was like, I can't, I can't talk about it because it's just, it's been constant.

[00:03:16] I am very happy about the no more text messages.

[00:03:21] Yes.

[00:03:22] Yes.

[00:03:23] Because my phone, I'm still getting a couple, my phone was getting blown up four or five times a day.

[00:03:29] A hundred percent.

[00:03:31] And it was more than four or five times, Jackie.

[00:03:33] I assure you it was at least 10 to 15 because if, if I'm getting them, you're getting them too.

[00:03:38] Cause it was the same folks.

[00:03:40] Um, but yeah, it was, it was more than four times a day.

[00:03:45] Yeah.

[00:03:46] But we already voted and we were still like, I know all the people I have all the signs.

[00:03:52] Right.

[00:03:53] Yeah.

[00:03:54] Well, that's what I was kind of cracking up about was I'm like, I thought like the deal was once you voted and they recorded it, that you were off the list.

[00:04:02] Not so, not so at all.

[00:04:04] Um, and, but I did get less, but still a good 10 per day.

[00:04:09] Yeah.

[00:04:09] That's just calls, whatever.

[00:04:11] And I'm like, I, I, I am already done that this decision has already been made on my end.

[00:04:16] Um, but so that was like the night of, and then, you know, when I started to see that Trump was winning some of these swings, I honestly, I just went to bed.

[00:04:27] Cause I was like, I can't even wrap my head over on this right now that this is where we are.

[00:04:34] So.

[00:04:36] Yeah, I can appreciate that.

[00:04:37] So Todd and I were in Manchester, England, and exhausted.

[00:04:43] We were supposed to be there the day before, but, but got caught in, um, Canada.

[00:04:50] I mean, it's the, it's a cop.

[00:04:51] If I tell it to you, you won't believe me.

[00:04:53] It's just a comedy.

[00:04:54] Just the fact that me and Todd in an airport with no food in New York for three hours was pretty funny.

[00:05:02] Um, being on hold with American Express for like an hour was kind of funny.

[00:05:07] Um, but when we got to Manchester, didn't turn the TV on.

[00:05:13] We were exhausted because we were walking for hours, trying to find our hotel after getting off the train.

[00:05:19] And we were walking in circles, a little exhausted because we were not expecting.

[00:05:25] We didn't, we planned it right.

[00:05:26] Just didn't turn out right.

[00:05:27] And as soon as we got to the hotel, we're just excited that we had the hotel and we get into the elevator.

[00:05:34] And someone said to us, I don't know how they knew we're from America, but as soon as we got on and said, hello, said, well, I'm glad you're here and not there to experience whatever's going to happen.

[00:05:48] Which then it got it really real.

[00:05:52] Yeah.

[00:05:53] And I had to speak that night.

[00:05:55] And so I fell asleep.

[00:05:59] It wasn't on every channel because I wasn't at home.

[00:06:02] And then when I saw Donald Trump had one, I literally just sat there crying all day.

[00:06:10] I didn't even move.

[00:06:11] I was in the bed and I was on the day before time.

[00:06:14] My body wasn't ready.

[00:06:17] And as soon as I thought like I could manage, like maybe I should.

[00:06:22] And everybody should know, like poor Todd was like, you have to eat something.

[00:06:26] And then went through England trying to find Jackie's comfort food, which was like chicken wings, like a burger with American cheese on it.

[00:06:37] Like he was just like, so he was like, these people don't even have chicken fingers.

[00:06:43] Like everyone has chicken fingers.

[00:06:46] No, fish and chips.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:48] Chicken fingers.

[00:06:49] No.

[00:06:50] It was like, ah, you know, but then I went to the event and right when I walked in, people were very generous and they were like, if you don't feel like doing this today, you don't have to.

[00:07:00] No one would call you for it.

[00:07:03] Um, and I was like, no, because they have like a professional photographer at all of these events.

[00:07:08] And so I want to get is make sure that I'm making the most of these opportunities.

[00:07:13] And, um, I think it's fair to speak and, and I felt good because everybody wasn't going through the shared trauma like we were at home.

[00:07:23] And it was like, you know, people were buying me drinks.

[00:07:28] Yeah, I, I will tell you, I had to go straight into meetings on Wednesday morning and, and also be the, everything's going to be okay person because of my role.

[00:07:40] Um, and I, all I did pretty much all day was reach out to folks that I knew are in marginalized groups say, are you okay?

[00:07:51] Is there anything, you know, I'm here if you need to talk, I'm, you know, I'm around.

[00:07:55] Um, it just is, it's very, very difficult to be on when you're also, and I, I know you get this like to be on when you're also processing, but I will tell you a little bit of a fun story.

[00:08:12] And this is not to throw anyone under the bus that's in my company.

[00:08:16] We had a lunch that day with some of our team members and my team is, um, awesome.

[00:08:24] And I love them dearly.

[00:08:25] One of the young men on the team who is a cisgendered male white, you know, all, all the things of you're not going to have an impact, um, started talking to the launch

[00:08:42] about how upset he was.

[00:08:43] And this is in front of folks that are in marginalized groups that we know will be impacted by this presidency.

[00:08:50] And it, those like, please stop talking now, like, please.

[00:08:54] And, you know, I have two women on my team who literally just pulled out their phones and started like playing on the phone.

[00:09:01] Cause I think they were like, I can't even deal with this or talk about this or have anyone.

[00:09:07] And they didn't want to join in on the conversation at all.

[00:09:12] And I think it was just because they are processing it, but it was one of those things where I, it was, please, please stop talking.

[00:09:19] You know, this is not about you at all, sir.

[00:09:22] And you're not going to be changed, you know, impacted or hurting or anything else because of this.

[00:09:28] But that's the truth.

[00:09:30] I mean, Todd at some point was like, also, I'm not the enemy, me, myself, and I like, but it's a, he understood his, it's, I think it was devastating for him.

[00:09:43] And in a lot of families, it's devastating when you know, it's always devastating when people are hurting and you, there's nothing you can do.

[00:09:50] And there's nothing you can say because you don't even know, like we're, we're not even clear on what is, you know, what it is moving forward.

[00:10:02] I just know, like, I am very, I am very worried and concerned, not just about like my job, but worried about people.

[00:10:14] Yes.

[00:10:15] Like, I'm worried about what's going to happen and, and, and how people are feeling and processing and how that's going to manifest itself.

[00:10:25] If it manifests itself in sickness or illness or bad behavior or, you know, risky behavior, because those things all happen.

[00:10:36] Right.

[00:10:36] When things are out of control, people start looking at the things that they can't control and sometimes need a different feeling.

[00:10:43] Right.

[00:10:44] And, and I think that's, this is where, you know, I, I know we were joking before we started recording.

[00:10:52] You have to just kind of focus on you and yours and not, not think about all the rest of this because it's just going to make you crazy.

[00:11:06] I, I, I, you know, looking, I reassessing like where I put my volunteer hours and how much of myself I'm willing to give to anyone that isn't, you know, in my close circle or family.

[00:11:22] It doesn't mean that it changed my work behavior, my podcasting behavior.

[00:11:27] No.

[00:11:28] I mean, you know, but there's, I, I have to make sure that there's a direct benefit to, you know, that I understand the impact of what I'm doing and make sure that it has an impact on the right group or the people that need it the most that don't have the support.

[00:11:44] That's all right.

[00:11:45] Right.

[00:11:46] Well, and it is like, what, what, what do we do and how do we think about this?

[00:11:56] And like you said, you know, where do you, where do you, do you put your time and energy and, and what, you know, this is where that whole circle of influence circle of control concept comes into play too, is, you know, we know there's going to be some horrific things that are coming down the pipeline and it's what, what can you control?

[00:12:21] And the part that I find interesting, and I don't know if you've seen any of this, but the part I find, I guess, interesting is the word.

[00:12:28] I don't know if that's the right word.

[00:12:30] Scary is how many people now are saying, well, I wouldn't have voted him.

[00:12:34] Had I known this.

[00:12:35] Shut the fuck up.

[00:12:37] Oh, that, sorry.

[00:12:39] That's what I, my response is to them, not, not to you.

[00:12:44] And to you, if you believe that.

[00:12:47] Yes.

[00:12:47] Well, I, I, we don't cuss on this podcast, Jackie, unless we, I mean, where's that probably the new world order?

[00:12:54] New world order.

[00:12:56] Yeah.

[00:12:56] I fully think that's new world order.

[00:12:58] I think we fully cuss.

[00:13:00] I think we changed the rules because.

[00:13:01] Okay.

[00:13:02] I like it.

[00:13:02] We're going to need cuss words in the next four years.

[00:13:04] Yeah, that's true.

[00:13:06] That is very true.

[00:13:08] So FYI folks that are listening.

[00:13:10] Too much pressure.

[00:13:11] Jackie and I are going to start cussing a lot on this podcast.

[00:13:14] That's just, that doesn't mean stop listening.

[00:13:16] You're going to still really enjoy every moment of cussing.

[00:13:22] But yeah, I, those are the ones that are very fascinating to me though, because I am like,

[00:13:27] how, how did you not.

[00:13:30] And it's not even a, how did you not know?

[00:13:32] Because they knew.

[00:13:33] Right.

[00:13:35] But like, did they know that, you know, JFK Jr. was going to be in charge of health and human services?

[00:13:42] They should have known.

[00:13:43] He said, Trump said that.

[00:13:45] And I mean, we're all going to have like unpasteurized milk and no fluoride.

[00:13:51] These are the things.

[00:13:52] Like, that's what I get worried.

[00:13:55] Like, I mean, I don't think people understand that this brofist can literally go in and be like,

[00:14:04] oh, we're not, insurance is not going to cover, you know, vaccines or something stupid.

[00:14:14] Um, 100%.

[00:14:15] Well, he could be the one who starts that legislation.

[00:14:20] And we already know when people get confused, they just withdraw when they're scared.

[00:14:25] And it impacts their bottom line.

[00:14:28] They withdraw.

[00:14:28] And then like someone was like posted and just like, I hope that it's not that extreme.

[00:14:34] They were like, oh, here comes measles again.

[00:14:36] You know, like, well, no, he literally said he's, he, he doesn't want to, he wants to cut

[00:14:41] off funding for all research around cancer, diabetes, like some of the major, uh, illnesses

[00:14:47] because he wants to see like, what do we have already that's working or not working?

[00:14:53] And so it's the like, wait, what?

[00:14:56] He wants to figure it out.

[00:14:58] Like, I think that science already supports that.

[00:15:02] Right.

[00:15:02] But, but his logic is if you eat good food, that fixes everything in your body.

[00:15:09] Can I tell you about good food?

[00:15:10] Okay.

[00:15:11] So here comes, here comes.

[00:15:14] If you even go down the path of that, there was good food in the UK.

[00:15:18] I am ending this podcast immediately because

[00:15:21] one cannot live on fish and chips.

[00:15:23] One cannot live on fish and chips.

[00:15:26] But also we went to Jimmy's, um, killer shrimp and they gave the shrimp with like, which was

[00:15:38] like D vein and butterflied, but still full shell eyeballs and crawlies and a bucket with

[00:15:46] like plastic gloves.

[00:15:48] And it's like based in South Africa and people, people don't know this about me.

[00:15:55] Yeah.

[00:15:56] I don't, you know, I'm like a peanut butter jelly girl.

[00:16:00] Like I'm not like, I don't, my, my food tastes are very limited.

[00:16:07] Right.

[00:16:08] My sister asked me what is the scariest thing that I would eat.

[00:16:11] And I was like, um, a medium burger, like terrified.

[00:16:18] Like that's a mushroom.

[00:16:20] Like, I'm not trying to get all crazy.

[00:16:22] And it had the heads on and they were hot as anything.

[00:16:28] And they give you plastic gloves and a bib.

[00:16:32] So I'm sitting with a bib.

[00:16:34] I'm going to put the picture in the show notes.

[00:16:36] Okay.

[00:16:37] And Todd was like, do you need me to help you?

[00:16:43] And I'm like, Oh no.

[00:16:44] Oh no.

[00:16:45] Like everybody in this restaurant is just ripping heads off and throwing it in this bucket.

[00:16:50] And I just, while it was delicious.

[00:16:56] Not your jam.

[00:16:58] I'm going to say this.

[00:17:03] I think that if you went to hang out with our friend Robin and Douglas in Baton Rouge, you'd

[00:17:09] be ripping some heads off some shrimp.

[00:17:11] Yeah.

[00:17:11] I know.

[00:17:12] I'm just saying because, because that is like a, that's a thing.

[00:17:17] Um, and.

[00:17:18] And with the cry, people get all, and I was just like.

[00:17:22] Like, but no, no, no, no.

[00:17:27] I did pleasantly get some great.

[00:17:29] I will say I had great Indian food in the UK.

[00:17:32] Oh yeah.

[00:17:33] A hundred percent.

[00:17:34] Yes, for sure.

[00:17:35] Um, but yeah, I, I, the, the food in the UK is not my favorite.

[00:17:41] Now, please, anyone that's in the UK, please don't be mad at us.

[00:17:44] We still love you.

[00:17:45] Don't worry.

[00:17:46] Um, I'm not being a hater.

[00:17:47] It's just not my favorite.

[00:17:48] Yeah, I think that was the declaration of independence.

[00:17:52] They're like, we're just not eating this shit anymore.

[00:17:54] We're not eating fish and chips and shepherd's pie every day.

[00:17:57] Yeah.

[00:17:58] We're out.

[00:17:58] I was shocked.

[00:18:00] It was so funny.

[00:18:01] I, again, we had roast Sunday roast, you know, with, um, um, Yorkshire pudding and the whole

[00:18:10] bit.

[00:18:10] And I ate as much as I can.

[00:18:12] And the lady came over to the table and she was like, do you need more gravy?

[00:18:16] And I was like, Oh Lord Jesus.

[00:18:18] No, no, that's not why this food is here.

[00:18:21] Nope.

[00:18:21] No, no, no.

[00:18:22] I mean, delicious, but I was like more gravy girl.

[00:18:26] Well, and that's the other part.

[00:18:28] I feel like we are.

[00:18:30] So, you know, I, I have the opposite cause I'm in Texas or I, you know, was in Texas

[00:18:34] with folks from all over the world and they were cracking up cause they're like, how

[00:18:39] does anyone finish their food?

[00:18:42] Like it's so much food.

[00:18:44] And I'm like, no, you don't, you don't finish the food.

[00:18:47] You, you, um, you, you don't try because it's just not.

[00:18:53] Just no.

[00:18:55] Much food in Texas.

[00:18:56] It's, it's ridiculous.

[00:18:58] Like I know who's eaten that third taco.

[00:19:01] Why do you, why are there three taco plates with the beans and the rice and the everything

[00:19:06] and the chips and the salt?

[00:19:07] Like you can't like, no.

[00:19:09] Nobody at a Mexican restaurant wants to eat.

[00:19:11] You can't.

[00:19:12] You shouldn't.

[00:19:13] RFK said you shouldn't.

[00:19:17] Like.

[00:19:19] I can't.

[00:19:21] I understand that not everybody is into Texas food either.

[00:19:25] There are some questionable food for outsiders.

[00:19:28] Fried okra being one of them.

[00:19:30] Like steak with gravy, big toast and gravy steak fingers.

[00:19:35] But how did we mess up French fries so badly in this country?

[00:19:40] Like, I don't know what they doing in Britain, but they get those potatoes done right.

[00:19:46] The chips.

[00:19:47] The chips are right.

[00:19:48] Yes.

[00:19:49] Yeah.

[00:19:50] Like everywhere people are like, and then they say, would you like mayonnaise?

[00:19:55] No, no.

[00:19:57] And Todd, it was like, this is near ketchup.

[00:19:59] Like we were eating something.

[00:20:01] He was like, I think it's ketchup.

[00:20:02] No, no, no.

[00:20:03] Um, but that was, I never got a British breakfast.

[00:20:06] I really wanted a British breakfast.

[00:20:08] And so.

[00:20:09] Oh, really?

[00:20:09] You didn't have a proper breakfast at all?

[00:20:12] So late.

[00:20:12] And every time we'd order it, they'd be like, ma'am, it's 1 p.m.

[00:20:17] I'm like, oh, because I just woke up.

[00:20:19] Because I just woke up.

[00:20:21] Sorry.

[00:20:21] Yeah.

[00:20:22] Yeah.

[00:20:22] Um, okay.

[00:20:24] So.

[00:20:26] Can we talk a little bit about HR right now?

[00:20:29] Yes.

[00:20:30] This is what.

[00:20:31] Okay.

[00:20:31] So this.

[00:20:32] Yes.

[00:20:33] So while one of the things that I did, I was there for the, um, um, what's equivalent

[00:20:40] to SHRM in the UK.

[00:20:42] It's CIPD personnel, something like the world's oldest, you know, they came out in like 10,

[00:20:50] you know, 80 or something.

[00:20:54] So I went to the HR.

[00:20:55] To do HR certifications.

[00:20:57] Yeah.

[00:20:58] People with, yeah, Moses had one.

[00:21:01] Um, and.

[00:21:02] Oh my God.

[00:21:05] Um, uh, well, if you think about it, that's probably where it started.

[00:21:08] He was like, how am I?

[00:21:09] Yeah.

[00:21:09] He was like, you know what we need?

[00:21:12] You know what we need?

[00:21:12] We need all these animals on my own.

[00:21:15] Please help me.

[00:21:16] Um, so I went to that.

[00:21:17] What was exciting for my perspective, because I, we just got over, you know, we know about

[00:21:23] the election.

[00:21:24] They're still trying to get this stuff, right.

[00:21:26] I think they did learn a lot from Brexit and it's like, these are the people that are

[00:21:29] here.

[00:21:29] We need to make everybody feel as confident as possible.

[00:21:33] People don't want to come here.

[00:21:34] We don't have people coming and participating.

[00:21:36] Then we have to get along as a country in the resources that we have.

[00:21:40] And also are looking at leadership development, um, still doing, uh, inclusion and making

[00:21:48] things, um, for people with disabilities and accommodations that are needed and really

[00:21:54] looking into those things.

[00:21:56] So that was promising to me, knowing that, you know, not everybody is going to be dealing

[00:22:02] with this through the, through the next four years of the, you know, hate that we expect

[00:22:08] to come our way.

[00:22:10] Um, and also why haven't we figured this out yet?

[00:22:14] Like, why haven't we figured out benefits yet?

[00:22:16] Like, why are we still trying to get engagement?

[00:22:18] How do we burn out people and get them engaged at the same time?

[00:22:24] Well, why are people asking us to do that then?

[00:22:27] Like every day, every day.

[00:22:30] Yeah.

[00:22:31] You know, it's funny.

[00:22:32] It, yeah, it's the do, do more with less concept, which I think is going to actually,

[00:22:38] I think it's going to ramp up if, you know, if he does put in some of these tariffs, some

[00:22:43] of these other things, we're going to have a bunch of companies that are hurting and yes,

[00:22:48] they can pass along some of that to the consumer.

[00:22:50] But I also think we're going to see more, you know, more mass layoffs, more just not

[00:22:58] good things.

[00:22:58] You know, if we think the unemployment rate can get worse, it's going to, I have a feeling.

[00:23:04] Um, and so I think there is a, yeah, how are we, how are we supposed to balance this as an

[00:23:09] HR person to make sure we keep our people safe or comfortable?

[00:23:15] I won't say happy, but comfortable in that environment.

[00:23:19] I, I don't know.

[00:23:21] I mean, I, it is really funny how people are like, oh, we're not going to have enough money.

[00:23:24] We have to do a riff.

[00:23:25] Also, I'm concerned about engagement.

[00:23:29] Like I, I, we've already talked about, we know it's going to start happening right now

[00:23:34] because we've talked about this every year since we've done this podcast about doing

[00:23:38] all of this before, um, Halloween, because once you get past Halloween, it's people have

[00:23:43] a, they just approach things differently.

[00:23:45] Their heart is different.

[00:23:46] They're like feelings are coming into play.

[00:23:49] They're thinking of their families and building relationships and, you know, being grateful

[00:23:54] and thankful.

[00:23:56] Um, I think that's going to be hard.

[00:24:00] And also.

[00:24:03] Like, what is our responsibility as HR professionals moving into.

[00:24:10] Like, it's just, you know, that's the part that makes me so mad.

[00:24:13] I don't care what anyone says with Donald Trump in office.

[00:24:16] We are going to have concern, mental health concerns.

[00:24:19] People are crying about my mom is going to get sent back to the country because her husband

[00:24:24] is undocumented.

[00:24:25] And if he goes, she'll go like, there are things that like we're seeing across the board and

[00:24:30] how are we going to manage mental health and be in support where we're not like afraid to

[00:24:35] talk to Suri because the FBI is going to come arrest us because we talk like say real things

[00:24:42] are that are going on in United States.

[00:24:44] Like, I just don't.

[00:24:45] I don't talk to Suri.

[00:24:47] I talk to Alexa.

[00:24:48] So I'm fine.

[00:24:50] Oh, yeah.

[00:24:51] Because Jeff Bezos is going to keep everything just fine.

[00:24:54] Everything's fine.

[00:24:55] Him and his henchmen will send a fucking robot to fire you and take you away from the country.

[00:24:59] For reals.

[00:25:00] But I also, you know, you just mentioned SHRM.

[00:25:03] I also want to see what happens to Johnny C. Taylor.

[00:25:07] Oh, he welcomed the president right on up at the very beginning.

[00:25:13] I know.

[00:25:14] And his, I don't care about diversity.

[00:25:16] I care.

[00:25:17] I don't care about diversity.

[00:25:18] I care about inclusion.

[00:25:20] Right.

[00:25:21] I don't know if you've seen any of the commercials.

[00:25:22] They're riveting.

[00:25:23] For those of you who have not seen any of the commercials, I double dog dare you.

[00:25:27] They're thrilling, especially because they're in the middle of a lawsuit right now for

[00:25:32] discrimination.

[00:25:33] Right.

[00:25:34] So it's cute.

[00:25:35] It is.

[00:25:36] Absolutely.

[00:25:37] And so that's, you know, you're talking about the leading,

[00:25:42] you know, kind of certification group in the UK.

[00:25:45] And yet we have in the US one that is under fire for discriminatory behaviors.

[00:25:53] So it's working out well.

[00:25:54] It's working out well for us in the US.

[00:25:57] Everything's coming up roses.

[00:25:59] I don't, I can't.

[00:26:01] And like I said, I, well, we were kidding about things earlier.

[00:26:06] Like before anybody comes at me for anything, like I want references or I'm just not dealing

[00:26:11] with you.

[00:26:12] Like I'm not like before I even waste any energy, like I, we need to see if this is something

[00:26:19] that we can negotiate or work together on.

[00:26:23] And I think there's certain things where it's like, I'm just not even dealing with that right

[00:26:27] now.

[00:26:27] No.

[00:26:27] No.

[00:26:28] And I am going to say this and I'm not going to speak for you, but I feel like you and

[00:26:34] I are on the same page in this regard.

[00:26:36] I do feel like there is a, how do we actually think about the rest of kind of our lives

[00:26:50] and how we think about our lives and how we think about our work and how we think about

[00:26:53] all of these pieces in this rapidly disintegrating environment?

[00:26:58] How can we, you know, start to really focus on ourselves and what we can control, but also,

[00:27:06] you know, to your point and your example on my mom's going to be deported or, you know,

[00:27:11] my mom is going to be going wherever.

[00:27:13] It's also thinking about who in our lives are going to be impacted in a certain way.

[00:27:19] Right.

[00:27:19] Um, you know, I, I've already been, you know, seeing on TikTok things about lavender marriages

[00:27:27] coming back in where, you know, uh, uh, someone who's in the LGBTQ community marries someone

[00:27:35] just to have a beard and, you know, just to have someone that is going to keep them safe.

[00:27:41] I have a feeling that that might become a thing again, uh, which, you know, hasn't been since

[00:27:48] the seventies.

[00:27:49] Um, but I think there's a lot of different pieces to this that people, how do we keep people

[00:27:55] safe?

[00:27:56] I was like, so, um, a couple, a friend of ours in Waco and I use our example in Waco.

[00:28:05] Um, I'm sorry.

[00:28:09] Bless you.

[00:28:10] Oh, thank you.

[00:28:11] Um, only using Waco.

[00:28:13] Waco is a really small town.

[00:28:15] Um, I do appreciate my small town.

[00:28:17] I know that there's a lot of conservative beliefs and there's a couple who we're really

[00:28:21] close to friends with.

[00:28:23] Um, they, two men, they're our same age.

[00:28:27] Um, they've been married for a long time.

[00:28:29] They've got four kids, one that's like five and the oldest is like 18 that they adopted.

[00:28:36] And they were posting on, uh, Facebook about the rules that you need to make sure that

[00:28:42] are in place in case anybody gets hurt in insurance and stuff like that.

[00:28:46] And someone was like, Oh, I hope nothing happens.

[00:28:48] Like we love you so much, bitch, like, shut up.

[00:28:52] Like literally I'm flying through the screen.

[00:28:55] Like, no, you don't love us so much because you helped make this happen.

[00:29:01] Like people don't understand what people are saying.

[00:29:04] I don't understand how people can read on stuff on online, but can't click one extra

[00:29:11] piece.

[00:29:12] No, because it's the, the, the reason behind it is not enough.

[00:29:18] Worried about the economy is just not enough.

[00:29:21] We're all worried about the economy.

[00:29:22] We all want to have jobs.

[00:29:23] We've been living in that scary world for the last four years.

[00:29:26] It's going to get worse before it gets better based on all the, I mean, we don't even need

[00:29:31] doctors anymore.

[00:29:32] Right.

[00:29:33] I mean, or teachers for that matter.

[00:29:37] Not teachers or bus drivers or.

[00:29:41] None of it.

[00:29:42] You know, and the thing is the only thing that makes it, you know, it makes it even worse

[00:29:48] for the next person.

[00:29:49] Cause Trump will not allow everybody to fail and make up.

[00:29:53] When everybody's like homeless and has no jobs and unemployed, then he'll just give money

[00:30:00] that didn't exist.

[00:30:02] He'll just print more.

[00:30:03] Right.

[00:30:03] You know, and sign every check.

[00:30:07] I can't.

[00:30:08] I can't.

[00:30:10] I just like, and the thing that is really interesting.

[00:30:16] So we saw the book of Mormon musical in the West end in London.

[00:30:22] Isn't it hilarious?

[00:30:24] Which.

[00:30:25] Yeah.

[00:30:25] So I've seen it in Broadway.

[00:30:27] Okay.

[00:30:28] Okay.

[00:30:28] Be clear.

[00:30:29] I knew what I was getting into.

[00:30:31] Right.

[00:30:31] But I was like, oh, they're not laughing with this.

[00:30:36] Like they're, this is laughing at us because they also do the full play in an American accent.

[00:30:42] And, um, I forgot that we weren't in America when they were like, oh, this is, you know,

[00:30:48] when Jesus went to America, like crossed the middle East and came to, you know, Buffalo,

[00:30:56] New York.

[00:30:56] It was just like, it just sounded dumber and dumber as we went along.

[00:31:01] And I had mentioned, we were laughing about the water being around in 1571.

[00:31:07] And they were like, oh, because your company, your country didn't exist until 1776.

[00:31:12] And there's so many things that people don't know that I, and I don't, I mean, I always say,

[00:31:18] I am just an American with a public school education.

[00:31:22] So, you know, and I didn't go to college.

[00:31:24] So take that for what it's worth.

[00:31:26] But as we're sitting in Cambridge in England with all of these schools and John Harvard,

[00:31:34] we're going by like where John Harvard was in like two AD.

[00:31:39] And they're talking about, did you know, he came over on the Mayflower and when he died,

[00:31:43] he donated his money and books to start Harvard college, like in Cambridge.

[00:31:48] And I'm like, oh, I'm just, I'm like, wait one second.

[00:31:56] Why do we act like we invented all of this stuff and don't even look at the background?

[00:32:04] Like we don't understand.

[00:32:06] We don't, we were not taught.

[00:32:09] I'm like, we're taught Texas history.

[00:32:11] We're not taught history.

[00:32:13] No.

[00:32:15] I don't understand.

[00:32:17] My friend who went to college in Colorado said she had to take four Colorado history

[00:32:23] classes, like as part of her degree program, but had no idea about like what was going on

[00:32:33] in the whole rest of the world.

[00:32:35] We just get little snippets and it's relative.

[00:32:37] Well, freshman year, you have world history, which basically talks about the Roman, the,

[00:32:45] as my father, Foster, the teacher of my freshman world history class, who is now no longer with

[00:32:52] us.

[00:32:53] God bless his soul.

[00:32:54] Father Foster Hanley said it wasn't holy.

[00:32:58] It wasn't Roman.

[00:33:00] And it wasn't an empire in regards to the Holy Roman empire.

[00:33:02] Now that Catholic school education there, right there.

[00:33:08] That's quality.

[00:33:09] I'm glad we're getting bouchers.

[00:33:11] Yeah.

[00:33:12] Um, but you went literally from the Roman empire to American history, like the historical context.

[00:33:21] That's all I remember.

[00:33:22] Right.

[00:33:23] But like prior to Jesus entering the picture, um, again, Catholic school.

[00:33:28] So, you know, but I also like, you don't hear about how some of these historical invasions,

[00:33:42] like, you know, the British empire going in, you know, invading all of these countries and

[00:33:47] taking over and, um, doing horrific things in these different countries.

[00:33:53] And, and that's the part that's also fascinating is that when they try to colonize all of these

[00:34:00] countries and then you jump to again, you know, 1776 and, you know, nothing prior to

[00:34:07] that.

[00:34:08] And, and it's like, wait, what, what happened between those two events?

[00:34:13] It, it, it is hilarious.

[00:34:16] I also feel like, and I, it was hilarious to think about, you know, we always were raised

[00:34:24] on the King James Bible and it was like, you don't see a lot of religion in the UK because

[00:34:29] they like actually served under King James.

[00:34:32] Yeah.

[00:34:33] Like they have family members, like you can look it up and figure out like, yeah, not real

[00:34:37] bright, not real good.

[00:34:39] Self-serving, you know, Trumpist.

[00:34:41] Yeah.

[00:34:43] And then it was like, okay, so why we don't acknowledge what's dumb to me is we know the

[00:34:53] story that we are got, we did get because we're about to have Thanksgiving and coming over to

[00:34:58] Plymouth Rock, which again includes John Harvard, like father who got like dysentery and died

[00:35:05] because this wasn't made for you.

[00:35:09] Um, and also, so we know it's like, it starts there, but we never talk about, and I know

[00:35:15] there's a book somewhere.

[00:35:16] We never talk about the stuff that we literally stole from what did exist.

[00:35:23] Like we always act like we're so independent and wild and crazy.

[00:35:26] No, we're not.

[00:35:27] Like, why do we still have Cambridge, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, like all of these different

[00:35:33] places.

[00:35:34] We're not original.

[00:35:35] No, no, we are not.

[00:35:38] Well, Christina Aguilera, Britney Spears shit.

[00:35:40] Like this is like legit.

[00:35:42] Oops, I did it again.

[00:35:44] Yeah.

[00:35:46] But I also would say even like Portland, Maine, Portland, Oregon.

[00:35:51] Right.

[00:35:52] I have a lot to say about this.

[00:35:54] Oh, that I, I get it.

[00:35:56] But like, it was also like the subway and then taking like the underground and then the

[00:36:03] overground.

[00:36:05] How about that?

[00:36:06] And we're like, wait, we can go.

[00:36:10] Wait.

[00:36:10] So I can go anywhere in the whole country.

[00:36:15] The lady that I met in.

[00:36:17] So I was on business meetings and doing speaking engagements.

[00:36:20] And so when we were in Cambridge, we took one of those hop along bus because people of a

[00:36:26] certain age, that just is very thrilling.

[00:36:28] Let's take the double decker bus that's in every country.

[00:36:31] You learn all the propaganda in one sitting, very comfortable, you know, headphones, whatever.

[00:36:37] And we're going through all of it.

[00:36:39] And she was like, oh, the public transportation here is so bad.

[00:36:43] And I'm like, really?

[00:36:44] Because we took it to get here.

[00:36:45] And where I live, it doesn't even say bus stop.

[00:36:48] No.

[00:36:49] Like, there are no sidewalks.

[00:36:51] There are no, right.

[00:36:53] Yeah.

[00:36:54] And it doesn't like, you can't just take a bus or take a subway or above ground train

[00:37:03] from here in New Jersey or from here to El Paso, even going to Austin.

[00:37:10] You're, it's not like every 40 minutes people are going to Austin.

[00:37:13] Like, you might miss your opportunity.

[00:37:16] Yeah.

[00:37:16] And I think also Texas is the longest drive ever.

[00:37:20] I forgot how long it is to drive.

[00:37:22] I'm so sorry.

[00:37:23] So we should tell everybody the stupidness.

[00:37:26] I mean, we act like we're really smart, but.

[00:37:30] So I was in Houston for the election, as I mentioned.

[00:37:35] Prior to that, I went to Dallas and then to Waco, you know, Jackie City.

[00:37:40] Um, and I didn't see Jackie while I was in Waco.

[00:37:44] I did see the silos.

[00:37:45] I did meet Jimmy Don.

[00:37:48] So the metal worker, I did meet him and got a picture with him.

[00:37:51] So for those of you who are Chip and Joanna Gaines followers, Jimmy Don is their, the metal

[00:37:56] worker that does a lot of their signage, all that stuff.

[00:37:59] I did buy a sign from him.

[00:38:00] Um, but no Jackie.

[00:38:04] And the week before I was in Phoenix and didn't see Katie.

[00:38:09] Yeah.

[00:38:10] You, I thought you were going to end up coming.

[00:38:12] And it was like, I had to do back to back and write an article.

[00:38:15] I was like, Oh God, I can't do any of these things.

[00:38:17] And then didn't see Katie.

[00:38:20] So, so we're, we're, we're betting a thousand over here, folks.

[00:38:23] Um, all I wanted was a hug.

[00:38:25] If you don't know Google that, it means we're not doing very good.

[00:38:28] We're not.

[00:38:28] Oh yeah.

[00:38:29] Sorry.

[00:38:29] For those of you outside the U S we're not doing well.

[00:38:31] Um, yeah, I, I, I, it was kind of a comedy of errors, but, um, but I did go get some good

[00:38:41] shopping and while I was in, uh, Waco randomly.

[00:38:46] And to be fair, God had COVID.

[00:38:48] So we almost didn't make it.

[00:38:50] Oh, sorry.

[00:38:50] Yeah.

[00:38:51] So yeah, to be clear, it wasn't that Jackie didn't want to hang out with me or that I didn't

[00:38:56] want to hang out with Jackie and Phoenix.

[00:38:57] I did drive to the resort that she was staying at, but the friend that I was meeting did

[00:39:02] not respond back.

[00:39:04] Not Jackie, one of our other friends.

[00:39:06] Um, and so I walked around the store, couldn't find anyone and left.

[00:39:10] Um, but I was laughing at LinkedIn.

[00:39:14] It was a great conference, but I laughed because it was at the Biltmore, like the John Lloyd,

[00:39:20] right?

[00:39:20] Frank Lloyd Wright.

[00:39:21] Like Frank Lloyd, Frank Griffin, right?

[00:39:24] Wrong.

[00:39:25] Um, that guy.

[00:39:27] FLW.

[00:39:29] Great.

[00:39:30] You know, architect and these fine, and they just slapped a LinkedIn logo on it.

[00:39:35] They didn't care about it at all.

[00:39:37] Like we've literally researched that before.

[00:39:40] We have puzzles of his artwork at home.

[00:39:43] And I was so excited and thrilled.

[00:39:45] And then you turn around, I couldn't even take a picture to show Todd because all of it

[00:39:48] was covered.

[00:39:50] Stupid swag.

[00:39:51] Yeah.

[00:39:52] I, it's actually a gorgeous hotel, um, resort.

[00:39:56] And he has stuff that he has built throughout all of Arizona.

[00:40:01] Um, and to go and see some of his stuff is amazing.

[00:40:05] Um, but yeah, it was a sad, sad week that I didn't get to see Jackie and didn't get to

[00:40:11] see our other friends.

[00:40:12] But then also driving back to driving across Texas, it might be the longest drive ever.

[00:40:19] Even if it's like an hour, because there's nothing, it's just flat and there's nothing.

[00:40:26] There's nothing.

[00:40:26] You got to see, I tell people, look, there's nothing between Dallas and Waco and there's

[00:40:31] nothing between Waco and Austin.

[00:40:32] There's nothing between Waco and Houston.

[00:40:34] You just are driving.

[00:40:35] And you, as soon as you think I can't drive one more inch, you'll see a sign that says Houston

[00:40:40] an hour away.

[00:40:41] And it seems so close at that point, but no, you won't see that, but you will see a sign

[00:40:45] that says Buc-ee's.

[00:40:47] Yes.

[00:40:50] All the Buc-ee's there's 72 Buc-ee's in between Dallas and Houston by way of Waco.

[00:40:57] Just I did.

[00:41:00] And I, I brought some, uh, the sour cherries back.

[00:41:04] Yes.

[00:41:05] That's my favorite thing.

[00:41:06] Um, they're actually still in my backpack.

[00:41:08] Cause you know, even though I've been home for two weeks, I haven't unpacked that.

[00:41:11] Um, but Jackie.

[00:41:15] Yeah.

[00:41:15] Is one thing you want to make sure that folks think about in the coming months?

[00:41:21] What's your, I won't say like the end of the tunnel, but what's your hope?

[00:41:25] I just want people to know that you aren't alone.

[00:41:30] There are other people.

[00:41:31] You're not wrong for your feelings and that there's other people feeling that it's like,

[00:41:36] just built this, build your community right now.

[00:41:39] There is community out there.

[00:41:41] I know it's sometimes it can feel alone, maybe within your family or your community that

[00:41:45] you're normally hang out, but there are some like-minded people.

[00:41:49] And so it's okay, um, to, to feel those feelings and also adjust to make sure that you and yours

[00:41:58] are getting, are taken care of, like just make sure that you, um, don't feel bad for having those

[00:42:05] thoughts and feelings.

[00:42:06] That's what I want people to know.

[00:42:08] I love that.

[00:42:11] Mine is really more the stick to the people that are your people and find those people.

[00:42:21] If you don't have them, find them.

[00:42:23] Um, but also stay safe.

[00:42:27] Katie's like, trust no one.

[00:42:28] I trust absolutely no one.

[00:42:30] Trust no one.

[00:42:31] Um, get your arsenal together.

[00:42:34] No, I'm just kidding.

[00:42:34] Um, go watch, go watch.

[00:42:39] Red Dawn and then, and then prepare yourself because that's what's happening next.

[00:42:45] Yeah.

[00:42:47] Um, no, I, I think if we can all focus on keeping your people closer and making sure they're okay,

[00:42:57] I think that's going to be our biggest relief.

[00:43:01] Um, and prepping for the holidays because next week it's Thanksgiving folks.

[00:43:08] Oh my God.

[00:43:09] And if you, if you haven't listened to our Thanksgiving special from many, many moons

[00:43:14] ago, um, Jackie and I will give you some really good recipes in that episode.

[00:43:18] So you can look back on the recipes and how amazing her saltine.

[00:43:25] Ritz.

[00:43:26] Do you not get it?

[00:43:27] Oh, I beg your pardon.

[00:43:28] Ritz cracker cheese.

[00:43:31] Broccoli casserole.

[00:43:33] Broccoli casserole.

[00:43:34] So good.

[00:43:35] It is so good.

[00:43:37] Um, maybe I'll just whip that out for Thanksgiving this year and see what my family does.

[00:43:42] They're going to lose their minds and be like, what is happening here?

[00:43:44] This is not on our regular menu.

[00:43:46] Right.

[00:43:47] We have rules.

[00:43:48] I don't know.

[00:43:49] I'm sure everyone does on, on Thanksgiving.

[00:43:52] It's the, you do not vary.

[00:43:53] You don't try to make something fancy.

[00:43:55] You stick to regular mashed potatoes on game day.

[00:43:59] That's what I'm like.

[00:43:59] Do not change game day.

[00:44:01] No, you cannot do that.

[00:44:03] Um, by the way, are the kids coming home for Thanksgiving?

[00:44:06] The kids are coming home and my college best friend is, uh, David Elliott has adopted us

[00:44:13] every Thanksgiving.

[00:44:13] So he will be here.

[00:44:15] Nice.

[00:44:16] And, uh, and yeah, are they having, are you having it at your house?

[00:44:22] I'm hosting this year.

[00:44:23] Um, my brother is gonna, he's going to actually smoke.

[00:44:28] I think he said two or three turkey breasts.

[00:44:31] Um, I'll probably make a turkey as well, just cause there's going to be 95 of us here.

[00:44:37] Um, and then we've kind of divvied up the rest of the things amongst all of our siblings.

[00:44:43] So I'll have six of my siblings here and all of their families.

[00:44:46] So for tamales this year.

[00:44:49] Ooh, I don't know if we're doing tamales this year, but if so, yes, you absolutely can.

[00:44:53] I will ask Sochi if we're doing tamales this year, I will find out.

[00:44:57] Um, and we'll go from there.

[00:45:00] If we do it, you're absolutely invited.

[00:45:03] Now I might not be there cause I might be in Germany, but absolutely.

[00:45:07] You're invited.

[00:45:08] You can just, you know, you can hang out at my, just stay at my house with the dogs.

[00:45:13] Everything will be fine.

[00:45:14] We don't need to see each other.

[00:45:15] You can see the dogs.

[00:45:16] That's who you care about.

[00:45:17] I care about anyway.

[00:45:19] I need baby dogs.

[00:45:21] All right, folks.

[00:45:22] Thank you for listening.

[00:45:23] Uh, I know we were kind of all over the place on this episode, but I think that's par for

[00:45:27] the course of where everyone is right now is that we're kind of feeling all over the place,

[00:45:31] but thank you for listening.

[00:45:33] This is Katie Van Horn.

[00:45:34] And this is Jackie Clayton.

[00:45:37] Bye.

[00:45:42] Do you love news about LinkedIn, Indeed, Google, and just about every other recruitment tech

[00:45:48] company out there?

[00:45:49] Hell yeah.

[00:45:49] I'm Chad.

[00:45:51] I'm Cheese.

[00:45:51] We're the Chad and Cheese podcast.

[00:45:54] All the latest recruiting news and insights are on our show.

[00:45:57] Dripping in snark and attitude.

[00:46:00] Subscribe today, wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:46:04] We out.