Getting Inclusive AF with Katee & Jackye (HR Tech)

[00:00:00] You're listening to Inclusive AF with Jackie Clayton and Katie Van Horn.

[00:00:09] Hello, hello.

[00:00:11] How you doing everybody? Look!

[00:00:13] Look! In real life, together. It's like amazing. And also look, look, look, look.

[00:00:20] Ooh, you know what this means.

[00:00:22] This is going to be a happy hour edition of the Inclusive AF Podcast.

[00:00:27] Live from Vegas, baby.

[00:00:30] What?

[00:00:35] When was the last time you had a Fat Tuesday drink?

[00:00:37] A year ago.

[00:00:39] Here?

[00:00:39] Yes.

[00:00:40] Okay.

[00:00:41] I was like, when I was 22.

[00:00:45] Oh, no, no.

[00:00:46] Are you sure I haven't had one of these?

[00:00:48] I think I really haven't had one of these.

[00:00:50] If I would have had one, it would have been a year ago, but it has been like, that was like 20.

[00:00:54] Yeah.

[00:00:54] Or 21.

[00:00:56] At least 21 because she would not have been drinking prior.

[00:01:00] That's right.

[00:01:01] To being the age appropriate.

[00:01:03] Yes.

[00:01:03] Okay.

[00:01:04] Just so, in case our parents are listening, we gotta be clear.

[00:01:10] Okay.

[00:01:11] So Jackie, we're in Vegas for HR Tech.

[00:01:14] Yes.

[00:01:15] Do you know what I want to talk about?

[00:01:16] What?

[00:01:17] I would like to talk about bias at conferences.

[00:01:23] You know what?

[00:01:23] That's a good one.

[00:01:24] Yeah.

[00:01:28] So, I think the first piece that I would start off with is looking around.

[00:01:33] We are in HR.

[00:01:35] We know HR is heavily dominated by women.

[00:01:37] That's right.

[00:01:38] And yet, most of the folks here are men.

[00:01:42] It's weird.

[00:01:42] It is so weird.

[00:01:44] Like, I mean, like, I think the stats are like 82% of people in HR are women.

[00:01:53] Literally, I think the men outnumber the women here.

[00:01:56] They're like, oh, 100%.

[00:01:57] Yeah.

[00:01:58] 100%.

[00:01:58] Yes.

[00:01:59] Maybe in four to one.

[00:02:00] Maybe even five to one.

[00:02:02] Maybe, maybe 19 to one.

[00:02:04] Is it because they send all the men thinking that the HR ladies will be like excited and

[00:02:09] go to their booth?

[00:02:12] I hope that's not why.

[00:02:14] I, all I know, if you remember last year, we went to a party and I found myself standing

[00:02:21] and I felt very short and they were all that tall men.

[00:02:25] I don't remember the software.

[00:02:27] And I was like, this is weird.

[00:02:30] Yeah.

[00:02:30] But I also, yeah, it was, it was weird, but it also makes you think about the products

[00:02:36] that you're purchasing.

[00:02:37] Like we talk about being inclusive, adding other opinions.

[00:02:40] And if you're an HR tech company building HR tech products, and yet you don't have majority

[00:02:49] of women there, there might be something to that.

[00:02:51] Well, like I, so I had a client that was selling to, it was actually to Houston, the

[00:02:58] Houston police department and the Houston police department, like the higher ups are,

[00:03:04] I think it was like 10 of the people out of the, out of the 10 people.

[00:03:10] It was like eight of them were people of color.

[00:03:13] Yet they sent all white men to sell to this, to the city and, or to the police force in the

[00:03:20] city.

[00:03:20] And they were like asking like, why are we, why would we not, you know, why, why can't we

[00:03:27] just send this group?

[00:03:28] And it was like, if you're trying to actually like build a relationship or built, not that

[00:03:33] you have to have someone and you don't want to have one person there just to be the, the

[00:03:38] token, whatever.

[00:03:39] Right.

[00:03:40] But it's also a, wouldn't you bring people that can relate to and can maybe have similar

[00:03:46] understanding of what could this tool be used for in this, you know, in this environment,

[00:03:50] you know, what might be.

[00:03:52] Right.

[00:03:52] Um, and, and so that's the other part that I think about when I'm walking from booth to

[00:03:56] booth and it is a lot of men that I am like, okay, well how like, do they really get HR or

[00:04:05] they just sales?

[00:04:05] I think it's another mansplaining situation too, because if you think about it, we don't

[00:04:09] have a lot of women founders of HR tech products, even though majority of people are, would

[00:04:13] be women.

[00:04:14] So is it like, oh, here's a problem that you need help fixing and I can help you fix it.

[00:04:19] Right.

[00:04:19] When is it a problem?

[00:04:21] Right.

[00:04:21] I don't know.

[00:04:22] You know, thinking about so far, because we haven't gotten into all of the sessions

[00:04:27] and we just started it, but only had two sessions so far or two or three.

[00:04:31] Yeah.

[00:04:31] And mine that I went to was about, um, uh, international making the transition easier

[00:04:39] to hire people internationally.

[00:04:41] Um, that's what I saw, but it's still, it's like, I haven't seen the latest, but it'll be

[00:04:47] interesting to see what the latest trend is in HR tech for this year.

[00:04:51] I don't know what the theme is so far.

[00:04:54] Um, but I know that there, it is interesting that there are a lot of men and you see a lot

[00:05:00] of men in sales and it just shows how do you know if you're haven't been in HR or you're

[00:05:06] not in HR and we're not, don't have people that referring you that are of a like gender

[00:05:12] or looking at your team.

[00:05:13] Cause there's lots of places where you might not see anybody that looks like you.

[00:05:17] Of course.

[00:05:18] Of course.

[00:05:19] I also, this, the reason why I like this conference a lot is because of the pitch fest.

[00:05:25] So, um, our friend George runs the pitch fest stage, which is basically like the very small

[00:05:33] startups that are coming to introduce themselves and kind of introduce their product.

[00:05:37] They have some judges.

[00:05:38] Um, so I know Torrin is a judge this year and usually, uh, Tim Sackett is also a judge.

[00:05:44] I don't know who else is judging this year.

[00:05:46] Um, but it's great because you get to see some really cool products and I would almost

[00:05:53] say kind of even pre like these could be pre-seed companies.

[00:05:58] So they are tiny, tiny, maybe it's a one person show.

[00:06:00] Yes.

[00:06:01] And so they get a few minutes to pitch, but you get to see some cool stuff.

[00:06:05] And I think the last year they did a really good job of, of highlighting some DEI tools.

[00:06:12] But I think with the conversation around AI, I, I, I, I'm curious to see what's going to

[00:06:18] be on the pitch stage this year.

[00:06:20] I am really curious on how people are trying to do the spin and because most all products,

[00:06:28] it's almost like, oh, this is a computer software.

[00:06:31] I'm like, we, you just expect that there's going to be an element of AI.

[00:06:35] Yeah.

[00:06:35] And like, I hope that they ask questions around how are you mitigating bias around AI?

[00:06:42] Right.

[00:06:42] Who is doing your, what is your recommendation for people who are starting up, founding a company

[00:06:46] to make sure that the AI that they're used does have a little bit of shields in place.

[00:06:52] Yes.

[00:06:53] Um, some kind of protection in place.

[00:06:54] I, and I, I think that that is a conversation that I, I feel like most folks are having or

[00:07:00] are thinking about, but there are still, I think some things that just are not right.

[00:07:06] They're not.

[00:07:07] Absolutely not.

[00:07:08] They're, and, and I, and it scares me because I mean, I, I am also, I guess I'm, I'm probably

[00:07:13] different than most folks.

[00:07:14] Cause I'm like, I don't care what AI asks me.

[00:07:16] I'll give them any information because I feel like let's be clear.

[00:07:22] My information that I think all of our, we have to just understand that all of our information

[00:07:25] is out there somewhere.

[00:07:27] That's right.

[00:07:27] Um, and so I think that that is something that I don't worry so much about.

[00:07:34] I worry more about just the bias that comes out of like what it actually delivers, whatever

[00:07:38] that product is, what it delivers to you as the output.

[00:07:44] And I know, you know, you and I both have done tests with chat GPT and just to see what

[00:07:49] they'll do.

[00:07:49] And I think it's getting better.

[00:07:50] Um, but some of the other ones that, you know, Microsoft, uh, you know, has theirs,

[00:07:55] and there's a couple other companies that are using different ones.

[00:07:57] I actually, we were just, um, I was introduced to another one that is a Slack bot that basically

[00:08:05] does performance coaching for a manager or helps them with what to say performance management

[00:08:12] wise.

[00:08:12] And I was like, theoretically great idea, but based on what Slack?

[00:08:16] Yeah.

[00:08:16] Like what, like, Oh, this is what the coaching issue that I have.

[00:08:20] So it's, it's fascinating, but it's still, it's still early.

[00:08:23] So I'm, you know, he's actually a friend of ours.

[00:08:25] So, uh, you know, want to wish him the best and, but it is like a, how are they mitigating

[00:08:31] bias in that environment and making sure that it's not biased.

[00:08:35] Um, but yeah, excited to see what is out there.

[00:08:38] What is being shown, but I, it'd be like when you're looking at the bias within like this

[00:08:45] particular conference, one of the things that's really interesting is that on our badge,

[00:08:48] I will show you my badge, which I think is a little hilarious.

[00:08:52] Oh, we have now.

[00:08:55] Now you know, we have the camera on a swivel chair.

[00:08:59] Look, I says like basic on it.

[00:09:02] I wonder if anybody's going to be mean to me.

[00:09:05] Cause I have this basic and by anyone she means me making.

[00:09:09] Oh, I knew that you were going to be mean.

[00:09:11] I just, I think it's funny, but it also says VP of talent acquisition and DEIB.

[00:09:18] Um, mine says media all access because I, uh, am on the inclusive AF podcast.

[00:09:24] But I, I am too.

[00:09:26] What?

[00:09:27] I don't know.

[00:09:28] I don't know what to tell you.

[00:09:29] I think you owe me.

[00:09:29] Well, you also, you guys are also in a booth.

[00:09:33] Oh.

[00:09:33] So I think that maybe that changes things a little bit for you that you.

[00:09:37] Okay.

[00:09:37] Do you want to.

[00:09:38] You can't be media.

[00:09:38] Yeah.

[00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:39] Um, okay.

[00:09:42] So what are you thinking about with the presidential race right now?

[00:09:48] How are you feeling?

[00:09:49] I'm really excited.

[00:09:51] Like, I feel like I'm really hopeful.

[00:09:54] I feel like I'm really seeing things going in a different direction.

[00:09:58] Like overall it was really negative.

[00:10:02] It felt really bad, like for a while there and it just wasn't sure.

[00:10:06] But now I feel really positive that there, there, there, there'd be a fair, more fair

[00:10:12] shot, like a more of a, I guess maybe I mean a chance.

[00:10:16] Yeah.

[00:10:16] Before it seemed like there wasn't going to be a chance and wasn't sure.

[00:10:19] No, but now with the presidential race with Kamala, I, you know, I am a Kamala supporter

[00:10:25] and I think that it adds some, uh, fun things to watch.

[00:10:29] Absolutely.

[00:10:30] How are you feeling?

[00:10:32] It's interesting.

[00:10:33] Cause I've actually been doing a lot of research.

[00:10:35] Um, because I was, I have, as you know, some family members that are maybe on the other

[00:10:40] side of the fence on, on who I will be voting for.

[00:10:44] And so I was like, I want to understand like what has Kamala actually done?

[00:10:48] What are the particular things that she's helped to push?

[00:10:51] Um, you know, I, she was front and center on a lot of the work around the, um, anti-lynching

[00:10:59] legislation that, uh, she signed into law.

[00:11:01] She's actually been the person that had to make the tie breaking vote for a lot of different

[00:11:07] legislation.

[00:11:08] And, and it's just been fascinating to start to dig in on some of that stuff.

[00:11:12] And then when you look at the other candidate, it's like, so he helped rich people.

[00:11:17] Right.

[00:11:17] Over and over and over and over and over and over again.

[00:11:20] Yeah.

[00:11:21] And every way possible, whether it's a corporation, whatever it might be.

[00:11:24] And so it's still that fascinating like concept of how do people that I consider smart, how

[00:11:32] do they not see that this person is not actually helping anyone or for anyone except for themselves?

[00:11:40] Right.

[00:11:41] That's what I get.

[00:11:42] So I don't want to say worked up at this point, cause it's not worked up, but just like confused

[00:11:48] by, I think that it's easy to be confused if you are in a family or have been in a household

[00:11:57] where, you know, I would say like middle-class working family, watching people do those things

[00:12:05] where it's like, we want to help others when we can. And especially in your background, knowing

[00:12:10] like your religious background, like the one in the way that you were raised and helping

[00:12:15] other people were like, that's just second nature.

[00:12:18] Right.

[00:12:18] Then you look over at the candidates history, like majority of their businesses, like the

[00:12:24] early start came from their own family, nothing to help largely outside, like people who've

[00:12:31] given the money to support has been internal from their family and did not help other people

[00:12:36] in building like businesses and equity. So it's like, oh, that's what you think you're

[00:12:40] supposed to do.

[00:12:41] Right.

[00:12:42] Um, and so I think that that part is really interesting.

[00:12:46] Um, but I can understand like from a justify if you're just looking at money, like, oh, this

[00:12:52] could give me the best chance of, of, you know, saving money or whatever.

[00:12:57] Um, if you don't care about everybody else and some people just that they don't put that

[00:13:02] in the front of the, of the, of their minds, what's going to be important.

[00:13:06] Yes. And I think like with some of the, you know, the infrastructure bill, some of the other

[00:13:11] things that Kamala, you know, I absolutely was supportive of and helping to again, break

[00:13:15] the tie votes, all of these things for the different legislation.

[00:13:19] She was front and center to not just say, hey, let's help the folks that don't need more

[00:13:25] money. Let's, you know, let's spread the wealth and, and look at how can we create new jobs?

[00:13:30] How can we create new, uh, industries that we haven't had before?

[00:13:35] And, you know, I think that's the other piece that is very much front of mind for me is infrastructure

[00:13:42] and how we actually continue. Like I was on vacation the last two weeks, as you know, and

[00:13:48] driving around like the Northeastern United States. And we commented multiple things, but

[00:13:53] like the roads are just horrible. And I think part of it is obviously with the winters coming,

[00:13:59] like, I think it's just always hard to maintain roads and cold climates. Um, but it was one of those

[00:14:06] things like, this is exactly what we're talking about. It's just basic infrastructure, how to get

[00:14:10] from point A to point B. Are there other methods of transportation? Are there other things that

[00:14:16] people can do? And I just feel like she's thinking about that stuff and is also focused on how do we

[00:14:23] actually move this forward? Um, so yeah, I, I, so again, still voting for Kamala.

[00:14:30] Yeah. I mean, I think it's like, we see this in every election where it's like, everybody has to

[00:14:37] vote, make sure that you're getting those things, like put up your signs and all of that. And so it'll

[00:14:42] get down. It'll be down to the wire. It seems like things keep going back and forth on what candidate

[00:14:47] is going to be, um, but yeah, the one we won't know. Yeah. But I just don't like, I don't feel so

[00:14:56] much doom and gloom. Like instead of like, you know, there's a little bit of hope scrolling. Yeah.

[00:15:01] Instead of doomsday scrolling. I love that saying. I love that expression that hope scrolling is huge.

[00:15:06] And I think it's one that all of us need to, we need it right now. Like, I think it was like, uh,

[00:15:14] to your point, like when Biden was still in the race, it was like, okay, yeah, we're not going to win.

[00:15:20] So we're doomed. But wow. Like how are we going to do? I'm going to have to move to another country

[00:15:26] and because of Elon Musk, it won't be Mars. No. Like I was going to have to, I can't move to space.

[00:15:31] No. Um, I will tell you fun fact. I met a woman, Ann Calloway at the airport and Calloway was the

[00:15:37] singer of the nanny. Okay. For the song with Fran Drescher. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Wrote a song for

[00:15:45] Kamala Harris song to the nanny. So we'll put it in the show notes. You have to look it up on

[00:15:49] Instagram. Okay. It is so cute. Okay. I love it. So again, if you're doing some hope scrolling,

[00:15:55] you have to have that in there. Okay. And I, did you see, um, Kristen Chenoweth? No. Okay. So she,

[00:16:03] you know what I'm talking about. She's like stage actress has been in a bunch of different shows.

[00:16:08] Well, she did, um, popular from yes. Uh, wicked, right? Yes. Um, but it's Kamala.

[00:16:20] The back here. See, that makes me so happy. Look at me. I'm a singer. Watch out. Now we're

[00:16:29] going to do karaoke tonight in Vegas. People, if I drink the rest of this, we'll be on a stage

[00:16:33] somewhere singing songs. That's right. We have to pick a good song to do a duet though.

[00:16:39] Island in the stream. I think. No, no, no, no, no. Like it has to be a girl.

[00:16:44] I was just going to say something girl on girl.

[00:16:47] It has to be a song with two women. We could do, um, the boy's mine.

[00:16:57] We can do that. Monica and Brandy. We could do. That's right.

[00:17:01] We can sing it to, um, John Baldino. We can do that. That might, that might be.

[00:17:06] That will work. Yes. And, but what's the other, um, Dolly Parton and, um, someone else did another

[00:17:14] duet and it was, you were saying islands in the stream. So that's what I was thinking about.

[00:17:18] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, it's a Dolly and Cher or someone. I can't remember who the other person is.

[00:17:24] Oh no, it's Reba. I don't know which one you're talking about. Um, you do. Oh.

[00:17:30] I just can't think. I, as per usual, I can't remember the name of it because I have the

[00:17:35] memory of it now. Um, I will find it and should we put that in the show notes too? It's Reba and

[00:17:43] Dolly. Does he love you? Oh, we're not singing that until we get some voice lessons.

[00:17:50] Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I need some help. Yes. I'm not, I'm just saying we're going to do like,

[00:17:54] you know, we're not going to be doing like Celine Dion. No, but next year, next year,

[00:17:59] be ready folks. If you come to HR tech, you might do this. We will be ready. Hopefully we'll celebrate.

[00:18:05] Do you want to be Dolly or Reba? Um, I think Reba just so I can pretend to have that accent.

[00:18:11] I'll work on it while I'm okay. And I'll get a pushup bra. That's right. And a wig.

[00:18:16] What else has been going on? We haven't sat down. I know that all of our listeners know that we

[00:18:23] had some spaces because of our jobs and all of the things and life happening. Now we're getting

[00:18:28] into the fall season and it's conference season, which means we have a lot of different things,

[00:18:32] but I'm glad that we're together. Yeah. What else do you see coming up this fall or within this

[00:18:36] quarter as we get close to finishing out the year? Can you believe it's almost October?

[00:18:41] So, you know, I think we're, we're getting into that place of like end of year review process.

[00:18:47] You know, we did ours over the summer. So not, we're just going to do kind of a calibration or

[00:18:52] a touch point, um, for end of year. I don't like doing reviews at the end of the year. Cause I just

[00:18:57] feel like it puts too much pressure on people around the holidays. Um, and so I like doing it in summer.

[00:19:03] Right. So people can't go on vacation. No. Um, I, I want people to go on vacation to be clear,

[00:19:09] but, uh, that's one thing. I think the other piece is looking at DEI, like we're going into

[00:19:16] October. So it is breast cancer awareness month. Okay. So we're doing some stuff at work right now.

[00:19:20] Hispanic heritage, Hispanic, yeah. Hispanic heritage month, right month right now. I think,

[00:19:26] you know, there's just some, some good stuff coming that I'm hopeful with everything going

[00:19:32] on politically that we can keep moving forward and keep things moving in the right direction.

[00:19:38] Um, cause I think if Kamala is elected, we'll start talking about some of the things that we

[00:19:44] were talking about when Obama was in office of like the, uh, you know, family leave act and some

[00:19:50] of these things that kind of went by the wayside and were thrown out the window. I shouldn't say

[00:19:54] fell by the wayside, went out the window completely when Trump was elected. Right. Um, where it literally

[00:20:00] just that stuff shut down. And so I'm hopeful that if she wins, that we'll be able to get some

[00:20:05] of those things back on track. Biden's been moving it, but I think, you know, to actually get it

[00:20:10] all the way through signed into law that we have paid leave for, uh, for, uh, birthing parents. Um,

[00:20:18] and we have, you know, different things like that. I hope so too. I, I, I feel like there was a time

[00:20:23] when we said, Oh, don't talk about politics at work, but now politics affect work. Okay. I have a

[00:20:31] question for you. This actually really did come up. Do you think that you should have like a

[00:20:37] dedicated channel to talk about politics? No. Do you think in a, on a global and a global environment

[00:20:45] where you have folks that are on both sides of the, uh, Russian and Ukrainian war, um, on your team,

[00:20:54] where you have people that are in Gaza right now that you should have a political. No. Okay.

[00:21:01] Is there any, is there any world where you would go, you know, at work, we should have a political

[00:21:07] channel where people can talk about politics. No, but I think you need to talk about, you need to

[00:21:11] talk as a representative of people or HR about whatever stance or whatever your organization

[00:21:18] says that needs to be very clear. You need to re you know, have your policies or various things and

[00:21:24] that here we're here to make a business. We're here to make widgets. That's what we're focused on.

[00:21:28] You, you know, you have some conversations, be respectful of differences of opinions. Like

[00:21:34] when you're not going to control everything that people say. A hundred percent. I, my concern.

[00:21:39] So again, this came up and my concern is a, a, there are a lot of emotions from folks on either side of

[00:21:47] not just us politics, global politics, but I think there's also a, um,

[00:21:53] um, I am not going to tell you what you need to believe. That's right. I will say as an organization,

[00:22:00] this is what we support. We, you know, we support progressive things. We support, um,

[00:22:07] human rights. We support, you know, whatever it might be. Um, and I think that's the, the message

[00:22:12] that I always want to get across, not the, Hey, let's go talk about politics that will just devolve.

[00:22:19] We're bringing up, you're bringing up something that is actually more of a distraction. And so

[00:22:24] I always talk about when we look at DEIB, it's disruption of fixed thinking and a fixed mindset,

[00:22:32] right? But it's not a distraction to the point we're not able to get our work done.

[00:22:37] And so having a place like that, it's like, Oh, you know, that would be like, if I opened up a

[00:22:44] Valentino channel Slack channel at work, I would just be talking about it all day.

[00:22:49] I would invite other people and be like, look at my shoes, look at my purse, look at my hair.

[00:22:53] He's doing anything. And it has nothing to do with what we're working on. And so it's one of those

[00:22:57] things like, you want to talk about things offline and your own personal time. That's fine. Just as

[00:23:02] much as it's, we don't have a marriage advice channel at work. Some days I feel like I should.

[00:23:10] Sometimes I feel like I owe a copay to Slack. I'm like, who am I talking to? Yeah.

[00:23:14] I mean, it's different than, Oh, look at my kid's first day of school picture or my cat learned a

[00:23:20] new trick. That's different. Those are short and things, but you, you do have to have those policies

[00:23:27] in place because like I said, it does affect work. You know, when it's like, either we're going to

[00:23:34] have a DEIB office, if this person becomes president and if we're not, if it's this, we're going to have,

[00:23:40] you know, organizations that have sponsorship in the United States, especially if it's like,

[00:23:46] you work for public radio or public television, depending on who's president says what you'll be

[00:23:54] able to produce and who you're able to hire. Um, and even for our regular media, depending on who

[00:24:02] becomes president, we'll say if organizations can partner, like you have your NBCs and your

[00:24:08] Paramounts and your Peacocks and whatever, what kind of conglomerates are we putting together?

[00:24:12] A lot of that is, is based on that. And so you have to have a place we're tracking how it's going

[00:24:17] to affect our industry and we will make sure and keep you abreast of anything that will affect you at

[00:24:22] work. We invite you to do research on your own time and formulate your own opinions.

[00:24:27] And I think that's a piece that I, I am very much, and I know you've heard me say this. I've said

[00:24:33] this many times on podcasts. I'm not impacting, I don't, it's not my job to impact someone's beliefs.

[00:24:39] It's my job to impact how they behave, the policies that they're following, whether they're living

[00:24:46] the values of the organization, all of these things. And I think that's the focus that everyone needs

[00:24:51] to have is yes. And, and here, I I'm not naive enough to think that the conversations aren't

[00:24:57] happening between team members or whatever, or, you know, in specific situations, but for the company

[00:25:03] to go here, let me open up a channel to do that. That just seems like a very, very bad idea.

[00:25:10] It's a bad idea for a couple of reasons. Like mainly it's like, if you don't have anybody fully

[00:25:16] monitor monitoring that, that has a background in psychology or adjudication or any of those things.

[00:25:25] Global political. Yeah. Yeah. Historical. Political affairs, global economic, like war trauma.

[00:25:31] Yeah. Then probably not. Probably not. There's nobody to, to be able to do those things. And,

[00:25:36] you know, I do think it's fair to be like, like, let's have a moment. I like healing circles when

[00:25:44] things happen after you need to have a healing, whoever gets elected still in a healing circle

[00:25:49] because we're going through a lot. Right. Right. So it's like, but those things where it's like,

[00:25:53] you're allowed to say something and we're not offering opinions. Nobody's offering any judgment

[00:25:57] or counseling. Right. Just a space to feel heard. Right. And you put parameters around it where you

[00:26:05] can do things like that. But I just don't think that it's safe. It's a safe place and you're

[00:26:11] opening problems. Like, you know, don't start none, won't be none. Yes. Already opening places where

[00:26:16] there wasn't a problem. All of a sudden now there is. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, what else?

[00:26:24] Those are, I think that that's one of the big ones. I'm trying to think like what else has come up

[00:26:28] recently. We were talking about, and I've said this every year forever about if you think that

[00:26:35] there are people that you need to promote out of your business, promote to guests, like we're

[00:26:43] talking about at target. It was promoting them to get promoting to guests as instead of an employee,

[00:26:47] please do it before Halloween. Oh my God. Thank you. We say it every year. The reason being,

[00:26:55] and I know if you're not in HR, maybe this doesn't make sense. The reason being after Halloween,

[00:27:00] we're getting ready for Thanksgiving. It does something to us psychologically. People are getting

[00:27:05] ready for the holidays and it's supposed to be a certain time or it's really stressful for a lot

[00:27:09] of people. And as a whole organization can empathize again, to the point of like distraction, that's

[00:27:18] hard to get back. You will feel horrible. Your organization will feel horrible if anybody that

[00:27:22] you have to let go after a hundred percent Halloween, and you will not recapture that until well, and it'll

[00:27:29] feel, they'll feel it at Christmas. Yeah. And then you have new years and then you've done your own

[00:27:33] resolutions. It takes until March for your whole organization to heal from a layoff. Yes. After

[00:27:41] Halloween. If you do it before Halloween, people feel bad. You have Halloween. And then it's like,

[00:27:46] we're starting fresh in the beginning of the next quarter and people can feel like there's enough

[00:27:52] time for healing. And then we see the jobs that get posted at the beginning of the year and people

[00:27:56] are getting into transition, but please don't do it after. Like if you don't do it now,

[00:28:02] you either have to wait and it's going to cost your organization more money. Yeah.

[00:28:07] But please, if you think, and you've already written on a pip right now, like just put your

[00:28:13] packages together and let it happen. Amen. I, you know, I, this has been kind of a rule that

[00:28:19] I've asked all of my leaders to follow with, obviously I'm going to caveat it with, if there's

[00:28:25] something egregious that happens, of course you're going to deal with it. But this is, like you said,

[00:28:30] the performance management, the, Hey, this person has been stepping up in the last quarter,

[00:28:36] because there's too much other things going on. And we have an election right now. You don't have

[00:28:41] time to watch or monitor somebody else's behavior when you're trying to figure out what your menu is

[00:28:45] going to be or where you're going for Thanksgiving. It just, there is already a distraction and you're

[00:28:48] trying to cram all these sales and have all these meetings and make sure you have all the weapon and

[00:28:53] drive all the, it just doesn't work for any organization in any industry, anywhere.

[00:28:58] And, and the last kind of asterisk I'll put on that is also, it's a very bad PR move.

[00:29:05] Oh, it blows up on any type of, I mean, we have seen it happen pretty much every single year where

[00:29:11] some companies like, Oh, the day before Christmas, they gave us our pink slips and it's like,

[00:29:16] what? And it'll happen. Yeah. We know it'll happen. Now we're seeing it as return to work.

[00:29:21] Oh, self. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Why, why are, why is everyone returning to office? What is the deal

[00:29:29] with that? They're not really, it's because they don't want to have a public layoff and they want

[00:29:33] people to quit who are not happy about having to go back to work instead of laying off the people

[00:29:37] they're telling them in advance so that they can quit and look for another job before January 25th,

[00:29:43] but they're asking them to come back to the office. I'm telling you, people are using it so that

[00:29:48] they don't have to declare any of the other things where that people can start looking for other

[00:29:53] jobs and they will. I, I agree with you. I think that's totally it. And I think the part that

[00:30:01] it just is so frustrating because it is a, all of these pundits, you know, Jamie Dimon,

[00:30:09] Elon Musk, a few others are like, Oh, if they're in the office, they're so much more productive. And

[00:30:17] I don't, I don't agree with that statement at all. And you're just watching people work

[00:30:22] and you can't watch them at home. No. Right. But I like to do a load of laundry in between calls.

[00:30:26] I, and I don't like, like me, I probably, I kind of had to, I don't think it'd be, well,

[00:30:32] you've been gone. Do you have any clothes? I do. I actually did a lot of laundry this weekend.

[00:30:38] So I do have clean clothing. That's good. I know. I'm pretty impressed with my belt.

[00:30:43] Let me remember how to use it. Yeah, I did. Um, and then I got attacked by dogs and cats who were

[00:30:49] like, let me put all of our fur all over all of your clothes. Yeah. They don't want you to have

[00:30:53] clean clothes. No, they do not. Um, okay. So HR tech. Yes. We are going to do a live this week at

[00:31:01] some point. That's right. Um, and I, and then we'll also be having guests on if we find cool tools

[00:31:07] that we love. We'll be having them on as guests in the next few weeks. So you guys will also,

[00:31:12] even if you're not here, you'll get to see some of the cool stuff we are seeing. Um, and we'll try

[00:31:18] and post pictures on our different socials of how big, who's going to have the biggest booth

[00:31:24] work day, UKG. Who's going to have the biggest one work day work day. Yeah. I think work day.

[00:31:30] I haven't been down there yet. Have you been down there yet? I have, but they were just putting

[00:31:34] things together. I know busier is huge. Oh yeah. Yeah. Busier usually has it. I mean,

[00:31:38] as soon as we got off, it was like, welcome to Vegas. Yeah. As soon as you got off the plane,

[00:31:43] you had stuff going on the whole time on the, on the taxis in the taxi waiting line. It's been

[00:31:50] everywhere. That's awesome. We're doing a live, we're doing a live and we'll, we'll, we'll keep

[00:31:56] you all posted. We might have some friends join us. John Baldino is here who usually is with Jackie

[00:32:02] on Thursdays for, but first coffee. Um, so we might have him on as a special guest. We'll make

[00:32:07] him sit right here. Um, and we'll have him on it and he can chat about what's what,

[00:32:12] but thank you all for listening and coming to visit. Bye.

[00:32:20] Do you love news about LinkedIn, indeed Google, and just about every other recruitment tech company

[00:32:27] out there? Hell yeah. I'm Chad. I'm cheese. We're the Chad and cheese podcast. All the latest

[00:32:33] recruiting news and insights are on our show dripping in snark and attitude. Subscribe today,

[00:32:40] wherever you listen to your podcasts. We out.