Getting Inclusive AF with Katee & Jackye - Episode 148

[00:00:00] You're listening to Inclusive AF with Jackie Clayton and Katie Van Horn. Hello, hello, hello! I just like doing that because you do that, Katie. Hello, hello, hello! I'll sing it today. Today we're singing. Hello, hello, hello everyone! Welcome back to the Inclusive AF Podcast. I'm Jackie Clayton here with my fabulous co-host, Katie Van Horn.

[00:00:27] And today's episode is a little bit heavier, but it is urgent. We're talking about the relentless political and policy actions under the administration that targeted our transgender community. It's a serious topic, but you know us. We'll tackle it with our unapologetically inclusive, passionate, and maybe a little humorous style. But buckle up, y'all, because we have feelings about this. And as always, we're Inclusive AF. Inclusive as fabulous.

[00:00:57] And yes, the other F word too. So we're not holding back on this one. That's right. This is an all hands on deck conversation, honestly. You know, it's, we want to set the stage clearly on this topic because it's one of those things that, you know, this is very important. It is heavy and it is scary.

[00:01:19] You know, over the years we've seen an administration actively working to eliminate, to erase and exclude trans people. And you know, now this second term, it's the same thing and it's infuriating. It's heartbreaking. It's, it really flies in the face of everything that we stand for here at Inclusive AF. But you know, I, I think it's, it would be good that we just break this down about what happened,

[00:01:47] what's happening, I should say, why it's so harmful and what all of us can do to push back. And hopefully, you know, push back with love, with urgency. And, you know, I think anger is also okay. I, yeah. And, you know, we said this year, we really wanted to dig in and give you all the information that you need to do all these things. And there's so much going on now.

[00:02:14] Um, you might be asking, why are we looking at the administration's anti-trans action, but it is getting a little bit out of control. So we wanted to talk to you about how it's impacting, not just history, but what it's really doing for trans folks today. Many of these moves have created lasting damage or set dangerous precedents. And honestly, with so much misinformation still swirling around about trans people,

[00:02:43] it's key that we stay informed to fight back. So whether you're a DEIB professional trying to make your workplace safe for trans employees, an LGBTQ plus ally that's educating themselves, or a progressive AF listener who just wants to do the right thing, this episode is for you. Yep. And, you know, we know that some of the harmful policies and ideas that were put into 45's administration,

[00:03:11] they didn't disappear when he left office. And, you know, they have trickled down into state policies, into school board meetings, and, you know, ways that schools are being run. And even, you know, I know you deal with this, Jackie, I deal with it as well, you know, the dinner table conversations. So we want to understand that historical piece and really call out the BS of the historical piece,

[00:03:36] but then also inform everyone so that we can hopefully again start pushing against what's happening again. And so it's a history lesson, and it's that rallying cry or that what do we got, you know, what's the action we need to take. And, you know, we know that we are inclusive. And because of that, we have zero inclusion for policies that try to erase our trans siblings.

[00:04:03] Yeah, we were going to change our name to sort of inclusive AF, except for that. But that was too many words. Yeah. Yeah. So as we jump right in, let's start at the top. All right. So the Trump administration, I'll give you a guess. They love embracing multiple genders or they don't? What do you think? Only two, only two, only two.

[00:04:34] Well, oh, right. So it's so frustrating, but we just want you to know what did they do? What does it mean? And what's it going to be moving forward for real people and not just rhetoric? So take a deep breath. Here we go. Yeah. You know, the Trump administration's official stance is basically that, you know, there's only two genders, male and female, and that is determined by birth and unchangeable, period.

[00:05:03] And, you know, in this second inaugural address, he brought it up again and he declared it would be an official U.S. policy that only two genders exist, which he has, you know, made an executive order, as we all know. And, you know, he is trying to really embed this into law. So not into just an executive order, but into the law. And that's the part that also gets really scary.

[00:05:30] And I think one of the most glaring examples was leaked health and human services memo in 2018, because we feel some people this seems like it's brand new, but this isn't. We knew this was going to happen when you voted for him that this would end up happening, because they already said before about how they were going to define transgender people out of existence.

[00:05:55] And the proposed definition said strictly male or female fixed at birth by one's anatomy. There was no recognition of intersex folks, no recognition that gender identity might differ from birth assignment, just an attempt to slam the door shut. As one leading trans advocate, Mara Kiesling said at the time, they are saying we don't exist.

[00:06:20] And that quote just gives me chills because it really captures the cruelty of it, you know, an administrative administration effectively telling an entire community that you're not real or you shouldn't exist. And and I think the part that is scary is that this isn't an isolated thing. This is a theme that continues.

[00:06:40] And from day one, Trump's team has really worked on erasing the whole gender identity, the term gender identity from every conversation. And, you know, ordering the language to be used should really about is really the language that they're using is sex, sex assigned at birth, sex is not gender, not gender identity. And I think that's the part, too. It's it is truly, you know, as that quote mentioned.

[00:07:09] It's how are we just defining them out of existence? How are we getting rid of them completely by just not even acknowledge the thing, acknowledging that they exist? And, you know, they push departments like the Department of Education, Department of Justice to stop recognizing students under the civil rights laws. They you know, it's like they thought they were scribbling out the world trans word transgender. And if they did that in enough places, poof, transgender people go away.

[00:07:38] But, you know, that's not how humanity works. That's not how humans work. Thank goodness. And so there is no yeah, there's no just scribbling out a word and scribbling out an entire group of humans. Well, the rationale, if we can call it that, was often couched in Orwellian times terms like science or protecting women or religious freedom. But let's be clear.

[00:08:08] Credible science and expert consensus has never supported these anti trans views. In fact, the memo's claim of being granted in science was roundly debunked. And we've been working with this so hard because we know that it exists. We're trying to save people's lives by giving them the support that they need. And the experts recognize that gender identity is real. And so that's the part that Katie was just talking about.

[00:08:35] Like they're only looking at the sex assigned at birth and not someone's identity. And that is something that's really deeply felt within yourself. And so trans people are who they say they are. So we'll dig into those expert perspectives in a bit.

[00:08:53] But I had to mention that up front because the administration's perspective was anything but scientific or science based because they would have been able to go in and they would see that the science already puts place for gender identity. That's why we've been working on it so hard. That's why we've been working on it so hard. We didn't just make it up. Well, and I think it's also I think it's a cause that is personal.

[00:09:18] To you and I, because we have family members, we have friends, we have a lot of folks that this does impact this isn't just a oh those people over there. That, you know, there are people that are very close to home, very people that are close to our hearts. And, you know, this whole ideological political agenda dressed up as, oh, this is common sense. Right. Oh, this is the way it should be.

[00:09:43] It really is now compounding and manifesting and being leveraged for these policies around transgender military bands and rolling back protections for trans students, which we will talk about this.

[00:10:01] But, you know, we know that students are already in a very precarious situation with their mental health, adding this to their what they have to worry about or be concerned about is their safety and their protection does not lead to more balanced kids that are that feel safe, that feel comfortable growing up and being who they are.

[00:10:25] And, you know, it's also about attacking the health and the gender affirming care that is needed and making sure that, you know, they don't have what they need. And again, this isn't something that you can just flip a switch and turn off. This is these are real humans and these are people that that need this medical care and need to be recognized for who they are.

[00:10:50] And then, you know, the one that I think has gotten quite a bit of traction is the the targeting of transgender folks in sports and other areas. And, you know, each of these has very profound impacts. And I think, you know, we should probably talk about each one of them kind of individually. So let's talk first just about the banning transgender service members. I think that one is is one that, you know, came up very quickly.

[00:11:17] Well, it pisses me off on top of the fact that, oh, we need to hire based on merit. Like, just shut up, like, quit acting like that's a thing. So, yeah, like if it was true, then you wouldn't have this policy attack. Number one, banning transgender service members.

[00:11:39] So, I mean, again, part of the reason that people are so frustrated and keep saying I told you so and the signs that say I hope you get the day that you voted for is because way back in 2017, Trump went on Twitter and announced a ban on transgender people serving in the U.S. military. Do you remember that? I do. Because if you don't for our listeners, here's the recap.

[00:12:04] He tweeted that the military will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity, claiming the military cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that trans service members would cause. And it was really one of those distractions. It was a shock and awe tweet strategy. And I think the part that everyone forgets is that you can't erase people.

[00:12:34] And so the fallout from that tweet was immediate. It was chaotic. And, you know, the the the people that were current service members that were transgender and recruits that maybe were thinking about joining the military, they were suddenly saying, you know, what am I going to get kicked out? Am I going to be accepted? And, you know, this is who I am.

[00:12:57] So they'd already been serving with honor and they'd you know, they'd already been doing so much for this country. And, you know, they there's an estimate and I don't know how accurate this is, but I know at one point it was around 15000 trans Americans that were in uniform in that 2017 2018 timeframe.

[00:13:18] And so, you know, that's the the piece that you have to consider is that this is so that's 15000 people that we now don't need in the military and 15000 people that were now again going to erase. Like there's a big there's not a big line at the check in. No people joining the military in the first place. Yes, exactly. And I think that's the piece is that, you know, after the Obama Obama administration when it was basically like, hey, we have an open door policy and open service policy.

[00:13:48] And then all of a sudden you have this new president saying, sorry, never mind. Get out of here. You know, we pack your bags. We don't want you anymore. It's just the disrespect. And and. Dare I say jackassery jackassery, I like it. That's my new word for the day. I like it. That's what we're also talking like it again. It's like, huh? Like it doesn't even make sense.

[00:14:18] I just feel like on top of it, I mean, he's such a freaking hypocrite because, you know, he's talking about the tremendous medical costs. Right. Right. Here's the fun fact that studies, including Iran Corporation study for the Pentagon showed that the cost of trans related medical care was minuscule in the context of the military's budget. And it's a fraction of what the military spent on Viagra. Yes. I don't think that's necessary.

[00:14:46] And so the argument was bullshit from jump and disruption. The only disruption was the money caused by blindsiding the military with a tweet. What? How is that policy? And the Joint Chiefs are like, hold on. We're not changing anything until we get an actual policy because even they were caught off guard. Exactly.

[00:15:06] Like the military leaders and experts push back as they should have, because it was, you know, even you had the American Medical Association, you know, they were saying there's no valid reason to exclude transgender individuals for military service from a medical perspective. And transmit transgender individuals were serving the country with with honor and doing what we had asked them to do by stepping up and saying, I will help to protect this country.

[00:15:35] And they should be allowed to continue doing that. That shouldn't be something we say, sorry, again, pack your bags. But, you know, you also had all of these retired military generals, admirals coming up and just basically coming together and saying that any type of ban would actually put us into a degraded readiness mode. So basically we wouldn't be ready for if something, God forbid, happened.

[00:16:05] And, you know, even you had, you know, bipartisan lawmakers. So, you know, late Senator John McCain, you had Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, you had a lot of these folks coming forward going, this makes no sense. Why are we doing this? And you also had, you know, judges blocking the ban and saying it was unconstitutional discrimination. Just all of it kind of boiled to of like this this doesn't make any sense.

[00:16:32] But, you know, I don't know. It just keeps going. I just, there was a, I get frustrated beyond all of the other things that we're talking about. But like, it's just bizarre that we actually live in a world where you can get like fully lose, you find out about your job loss on social media. Right? I mean, Chad Griffin said it really good.

[00:17:01] He's from the HRC, Human Rights Coalition said, and they don't get a pass, but that's another show. That the erratic tweets, Trump's, and we said we weren't going to say his name, but I want to get specific. Trump's erratic tweets and half-baked orders disrespect the bravery of countless transgender people who have fought and sacrificed for our country. And the word disrespect is key because these folks volunteered to risk their lives for a country that's now telling them they're too much of a burden.

[00:17:31] And that, you know, quite frankly, is cruel. I was listening. I mean, it was NPR that there were as a trans person that was responsible. They're the primary wage earner. They have two children. They, you know, we're talking about their rent. They don't know what they're going to do. And so, looking at that, who sacrificed for the country. They've been in the military for like 10 years and now they're too much of a burden, but you can fight and die for our country.

[00:18:01] I mean, that's disrespectful isn't even the word. It's cruel. You know, trans service members and their families felt that cruelty. It was actually Broadway Mack of the American Military Partner Association. Lots of associations. And they said that targeting active duty families this way was unconscionable and based on nothing but blatant anti-LGBT. Anonymous. That's the word. Anonymous. Anonymous.

[00:18:30] So, yeah. I was like, what? Yeah. And so, basically, she's saying, yeah, there was no reason for it. It's just basically, I don't like this group of individuals. So, I'm going to go ahead and say we're going to ban them. And, you know, and I think this is the other, I'll call this out, but then I'll talk about current events. So, the next administration, the Biden administration overturned it as one of his first acts in 2021. As one should.

[00:19:00] Yes. Yes. But, as of March 11th, 2025, there is a new executive order banning transgender individuals from serving in the U.S. military. So, you know, we are, as of today, you know, January 27th is when it was actually signed. And it's the prioritizing military excellence and readiness. So, this directs the Department of Defense to revise policies to exclude individuals who identify with a gender different from their biological sex from military service.

[00:19:30] So, you know, this is, again, it's already going to, it's already starting to face legal challenges. There are six active duty transgender service members and two members who are possibly joining this lawsuit, basically saying, you know, we need an injunction against this order. It's against their Fifth Amendment rights. You know, there's so many different things that are going to come about.

[00:19:53] But it's, again, it's going back to why are we in this place where we're having to have these conversations? And, you know, the public doesn't support it. The, clearly the military leaders don't support it. And, you know, we are going to continue to ignore these folks and put people into a place where they have to be stressed. They have to be secretive about their real lives, all of these things. And what is the point?

[00:20:23] Right. I mean, it just, I hurt for them. I mean, there's, that's just, and that's just one piece of it. So, I think it's important that we look at these things and, you know, this is obviously came out of hate and prejudice. They act like it's about policy and like science, but obviously it's not. And they're hurting real people.

[00:20:52] And just trying to erase them. It's speaking of which, this is, that's just number one. That's, that's just number one. We also want to make sure that we talk about trans youth and students, which is another group that got caught in the crosshairs. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think this one, again, this one makes my stomach hurt probably the most. Mm-hmm.

[00:21:17] And because it's one of those things that, you know, if you think that picking on kids is beneath the administration, you know, these are adults picking on children. But, you know, during 45's first term, you know, he instructed the Department of Justice, Department of Education to withdraw federal guidelines that projected, that protected transgender kids and students.

[00:21:42] And, you know, this was something that during the Obama administration, Obama and the guidelines were really, hey, Title IX, which is protection for students that are in minority groups or in marginalized groups, Title IX should also cover trans students. And, you know, they're not going to enforce that. They're not going to enforce that. They're not going to enforce that.

[00:22:12] It's up to the states and schools to figure it out. And, and again, they're not figuring it out. They're not doing what's right to keep these kids safe. No, all it did was tell schools that you can do whatever you want to these transgender students, you know? Like, if they want to force a trans girl to use the boys bathroom or deny a trans boy the right to wear a boys uniform, the feds are going to stop them.

[00:22:37] And that's what's so scary, because it's a full step backwards where you're not having these rights anymore and you're not feeling safe, you know? I remember the images of the protest at the White House that night. Like, people chanting, no hate, no fear, trans students are welcome here.

[00:22:51] And it also makes me think about what was happening the other day with the joint, when he was addressing the House and the Senate and was, had that mom in there that was, I don't know if you saw it, but the mom was there and they were saying he wanted to have had a trans students and they were saying that they were indoctrinated and that celebrated them for changing the laws. And I was like, this is the worst mom on the planet. And they just outed her in front of all of these people.

[00:23:20] It doesn't make sense. I mean, Trump is a bully, right? And I feel like this is a brand new low. You're picking up vulnerable kids. It's already hard enough right now in school. And so, you know, it's just a new low. Yeah. And I think, again, you know, that was the first to go around.

[00:23:40] Now we're back in, you know, back in 2025 and Donald Trump signed on January 29th, the ending radical indoctrination in K-12, K-12 schooling. So it again prohibits K-12 schools from teaching materials considered anti-American or subversive and specifically around gender ideology and critical race theory.

[00:24:03] And it also directs law enforcement to investigate and prosecute any educators that are unlawfully facilitating social transition of transgender minors. So again, no counseling, no using their preferred name or pronouns, no acknowledging their non-binary identities, no allowing access to facilities or sports team. No, you know, none of these things.

[00:24:32] And if an educator is found to be supporting students in being themselves, then they can be charged with, you know, loose federal funding on a school level. They can be charged with, you know, all kinds of different things around sexual exploitation, which is disgusting. And, you know, it's just the way that they're approaching it again.

[00:24:56] However, we can erase transgender people and and put yourself into a teenager's shoes in high school. It's already hard enough. Now, imagine that the government is saying to you, it's OK if your school doesn't recognize who you are or it's OK if you're misgendered, if you're forced in unsafe situations, whatever that might be. That's just that's terrifying.

[00:25:22] You know, we we have a different transgender tension, transgender kids who are, you know, in the center of these bathroom cases. And, you know, when the administration reversed the guidance, it's also they're withdrawing support of the kids that need this help. And, you know, you have students that are basically saying.

[00:25:47] I'm I'm now an adversary of the government and, you know, I'm now in a space where I have to protect myself against the environment. And that's inspiring that a 17 year old kid would be thinking that and saying that. But it's also. So sad that he has to be in a space where he has to. Defend himself against one of the most powerful entities in the world. It's horrible.

[00:26:17] I mean, and right now, as you know, we're worried to see if we're even going to have an education department and what are people doing that. But I digress. I mean, again, it's really telling these kids they're on their own. And these are kids that we already know have a higher suicide rate, higher drug use, you know, and and being afraid. And now they are. Not allowed to play on sports teams.

[00:26:44] They the feds are really just shrugging and saying you do what you know, the school gets to do with it. They want to. And the administration argued this was about states rights. And if I hear that one more time, I swear to God, I'm going to hurt somebody because civil rights are not something to be decided by zip code. It's stupid. As advocates pointed out, if a state or school discriminates, it's absolutely the federal government's role to step in. And by advocating that responsibility, the administration has betrayed these students.

[00:27:14] And we're continuing to see the fallout. Like you do, you have these parents of transgender kids who are now in a position of being petrified. Right. Because, you know, yes, we can say, hey, please roll this back or, hey, please protect my kids. But they also understand that the mental health, the safety of their kids, their lives. Let's be clear.

[00:27:39] And when trans youth are not supported, we know that that risk of self harm skyrockets. And, you know, there are a lot of resources. And so right now I'll mention, you know, the Trevor Project. This is a, they have a youth crisis hotline for LGBTQ youth. We know that any time that there's anti-trans rhetoric, any anti-trans news, that their calls surge.

[00:28:06] But, you know, we also want to call out to any parent, any educator, any person, the fact that the Trevor Project does have that hotline. And, you know, we encourage everyone to get to know everything about the Trevor Project. They do some amazing things. But we also know that 46% of transgender and non-binary young people have seriously considered in the past year suicide or some type of self harm.

[00:28:35] And, you know, when we instead validate these kids and affirm their identities, we can save their lives. And I don't know how else to say that. But I also, the part that sickens me is that we know that saying saving kids' lives by removing guns or whatever it might be doesn't seem to matter to people. Right.

[00:29:00] But we're literally putting kids' lives at risk that they will be harmed by someone else or they will harm themselves. I mean, there was research that said that if you had just one accepting adult in a trans youth life, that it can reduce the risk of suicide by 40% by having one.

[00:29:22] So now we've got 45 telling, not only do we not accept you, but nobody has to accept you. And before they had at least someone or they knew that they could feel safe or they could put those things together. But now it's really trickling back into those classrooms. These are real locker rooms. And these are hearts and minds of kids just trying to grow up.

[00:29:50] We didn't even talk about learning anything. We're not going to learn anything. How can you learn? We say, talk about it at work all the time, but how can you learn if you're sitting in fear all the time? And I think that's the piece that, luckily, we have educators.

[00:30:09] We have some states who have stepped up and said, you know, despite what the federal executive orders or guidance is, we're doing everything we can to keep the protections in place. But some other states are also looking at passing laws to shield transgender students. And, you know, I think Title IX, hopefully we will get to a place that Title IX does cover gender identity again and just aligns to common sense and decency.

[00:30:39] We, you know, it's we, we know that Trump does not see transgender kids. I won't even say just not as equals. He won't see them as human. He's making them again subhuman, which is part of the, the way that this type of political agenda runs is that by labeling people and putting them into a subhuman category. It's a lot easier to do horrible things to them.

[00:31:07] And we need to remember that we cannot repeat things that we have done in the past. And we need to remember that so that we don't, don't do it again. And that takes each one of us stepping up and speaking up. Well, you know what would be even easier if we could just define trans folks out of existence, which brings us to policy attack number three, healthcare and legal recognition. All right.

[00:31:36] So buckle up. So this policy attack attempts to erase trans people. And it goes beyond schools in the military. It even reached into healthcare and basic legal documents. So under Trump's watch, the Department of Health and Human Services has worked to strip away health protections for transgender individuals. How?

[00:32:00] They rewrote regulations so that gender identity was no longer protected under the federal healthcare nondiscrimination rules. And essentially under those changes, a hospital or insurance company could potentially discriminate against someone for being transgender and the federal government wouldn't necessarily stop them. So, yes, you heard that right. In the middle of a health crisis, they wanted to make it easier to deny trans people care.

[00:32:29] And, and to be clear, I'm just going to give where we are currently as well again. So we have executive order 14 187 that's protecting children from chemical and surgical mutilation. And that is basically no gender affirming care prior to age 19.

[00:32:47] And it basically revised the Medicare, Medicaid and Affordable Care Act, or it directs the the Health and Human Services Department to change the Medicare, Medicaid and Affordable Care Act to exclude coverage for gender affirming care for minors. And then also back to defending women from gender ideology extremism and restoring biological truth to the federal government.

[00:33:12] That's or this order mandates that federal agencies, including health and human services define sex strictly based on biological characteristics to determine at conception, effectively excluding gender identity from federal protections. It rescinds previous policies that recognize gender identity under anti discrimination laws. So right now, obviously, that's already has legal challenges, because at the point of conception, all.

[00:33:41] Eggs, fetuses, whatever we want to call them, are considered female, because that's the way that it works. It's called biology. Everyone should check it out. It's really great. But also, you know, this is something that changing some of these mandatory coverages that are under the Affordable Care Act, that's going to take a whole thing.

[00:34:04] So but it is it still has significant implications for transgender individuals, because now when they're seeking health care in the United States, there's a lot of ability to push back and say we don't offer that. And it's just grotesque.

[00:34:20] You know, it's one of those things that, you know, the Obama administration really tried to interpret all of the health care acts to really focus on, including transgender individuals and, you know, discriminating against someone being trans is sex discrimination is the way that they defined it. But Trump really has reversed that course. And again, crossing out gender identity from all the protections and from all of the documents and executive orders.

[00:34:48] Well, let's also recall the infamous gender definition memo we talked about earlier. That wasn't just talk that was health and human services and others wanted a legal redefinition of sex to exclude trans people. And they aim to enforce that across government programs from education to health, the housing had this fully succeeded. Imagine the implication.

[00:35:12] So trans people could be denied shelter placement, aligning with their gender, denied identification documents like passports. This became really personal to me. I had a friend ask if I would use my voice on LinkedIn and I did because they were going on a trip and they're he's trans and lost their passport. And when they went to go get it, they automatically put female on the passport and there's nothing they can do.

[00:35:40] It had male before, but because they lost it and they had to get another one. It automatically says female. And so it's like the government saying your gender identity doesn't count. Only your birth anatomy does. And that human rights watch warned that this sweeping move sought to dismantle crucial protections for transgender people and denied the banal banal banal banal banal. And so it's like the validity, goodness gracious of gender identity itself.

[00:36:08] And it's hard to overstate how extreme that is. Basically, it's an attempt to purge recognition of trans lives from federal law. And, you know, and I think this is also where we get to that place of like the why. What's the justification? Right. And, you know, the way that now 47's administration is is attempting to twist this is by using this phrase gender ideology.

[00:36:35] And basically, again, putting in this idea that the very existence of transgender identities is some radical agenda and needs to be stamped out. And we need to call it what it is. It's dehumanization. That's right. It's a lot easier for people to go along with oppressing them.

[00:37:00] So what we want to say and what we want to be very clear about is that being transgender is not an ideology. It's human reality. These are humans. These are people. And there is a lot of medical, scientific. Research and consensus that every medical organization on the planet focuses on.

[00:37:25] And let's just talk about American, you know, the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association, American Psychological Association. All of the associations are basically are saying that transgender identities are real and that supporting transgender people is crucial for their well-being.

[00:37:43] And, you know, it's one of those things that when you have the Academy for Pediatrics, the American Academy for Pediatrics coming forward and saying, basically, we have to have gender affirming care for youth because it's medically necessary. It's appropriate. And, again, it can be life-saving. Experts. Experts. Not you. Scientists. We didn't make it up. No.

[00:38:11] And that's the thing that I go back to every time when we talk about all of this is that dehumanization, but also the amount of lives that will be lost because we have the highest person in our country saying, you don't exist and you're not human. And it's easy to get a gun, but that's also another show. Yeah.

[00:38:37] I do want to point out that because the administration, sure, that they don't recognize intersex people. They don't exist. Those are people that are born to variations in sex characteristics. Even purely biologically, not everyone fits the XX or XY narrative. Right? So trying to rigidly define sex or gender in law was not only anti-trans, it's anti-science.

[00:39:05] And it harms intersex folks, too. So there was a New York Times piece that broke the memo story. They talked about how scientifically baseless and unworkable this all was. But, of course, this wasn't about science. It was about exclusion. 100%. And I think, you know, anyone, like you said, it's science. It's crazy. But also legal professionals are like, this is violating the Constitution.

[00:39:32] And, you know, we do know that, again, some of the things have come forward since then. So the Bostock decision in 2020, you can't fire someone for being transgender because that is absolutely sex discrimination. Boom. You know, the Trump administration, it's consistently at odds and increasingly at odds with the courts.

[00:39:55] And by trying to entrench in this discrimination, the lawsuits are just going to keep coming. And you have, you know, the ACLU, you have the Lambda Legal, you have Transgender Law Center, all of these different law centers that are fighting back at every step that the administration is trying to take. But I go back to, and I will continue to go back to, take all of that away. And we're talking about humans who are being harmed daily.

[00:40:25] The whole point that we talk about is do no harm, right? When we start talking about health care and we are talking about all these different groups and acknowledgement. But they also leaned on religious freedom as an excuse, making it easier for health care providers to refuse care based on religious or moral objections. So picture it. There's a doctor who is being asked to work on a trans patient.

[00:40:55] And they could say, no, because of my moral beliefs, I'm not going to work on this person who just had a heart attack or a stroke. You know, like, I want to be clear. We're inclusive AF. We respect your religious beliefs. But not when they're used as a weapon, right? To harm other people. This is not the wedding cake conversation. This is about health. And no one's faith should be a free pass to deny someone emergency medical treatment.

[00:41:24] It just, like, just because you're trans or queer doesn't mean you're not deserving of care. I mean, that's not religious freedom. That's full discrimination. Full stop. Absolutely. And I think here's the other part that I'm going to point out. If someone comes into the ER and they're having a heart attack or having a stroke or whatever it might be, that has nothing to do with their gender identity.

[00:41:50] And so, as a medical professional, the whole do no harm, if we can all remember that part, you know, that is something that people need to also be thinking about. That we're not saying that someone has to go and provide gender-affirming care or has to, you know, support gender-affirming care or anything along those lines. Again, we respect religious freedom.

[00:42:14] But when it comes to emergency care, someone shouldn't be afraid that, you know, will I lose my rights if I go to the ER? Will my passport be taken if I show the gender I know myself to be? These are things that no one should have to face. And, you know, it's just an assault. It's a fight and a war against the dignity and existence of transgender people.

[00:42:40] And, again, it's being orchestrated at that, you know, highest level of government. And, you know, I think there's just no reason for us to have this stigma around transgender people. They are people. They just want to live their lives. And, you know, I know you and I talked earlier about a woman who recently shared a story on LinkedIn. And she was talking about, you know, her career and what she had kind of built in her profession was,

[00:43:07] I want to, and, you know, as she built her career around training and HR and all of these different things, that she wanted to be able to go out and train different groups around the world. And it's not about anything LGBTQ-related, just the training she had because of her career. And she's like, now I'm not going to be able to do that because I don't know if I'm going to be denied entry back into the United States. Or if something happens, I won't be protected. All of these things.

[00:43:32] So basically her entire career now is I have to stay in this place because I can't go do the thing that I was building my career around forever and ever to do this consulting and to be able to go teach. And she doesn't want you. I mean, on top of everything else, the place that's denying you, wants to deny you care, deny that you exist. That's where you're going to have to stay.

[00:44:02] Yeah. Well, I wanted to get to policy attack number four, which kind of is why we're doing this whole thing. The sports debate.

[00:44:14] So I want to talk about transgender athletes and the sports bands, because, again, we saw the address and we saw them applaud of not allowing trans athletes. You know, like most of the anti-trans athlete laws happen at state levels in recent years.

[00:44:40] But the Trump administration, instead of giving it to the states, they wanted to change that and make sure that we got people all fired up. Because Trump talked about trans women in sports. You've probably heard the lines. We will not let men participate in sports. Side note.

[00:45:04] But he brought anti-trans athletes like former swimmer Riley Gaines on stage at rallies to drum up fear about unfair competition. It was a calculated part on the culture war playbook and pissed me off. And, like, I don't appreciate that they – I was like, these are men in sports. These are women. So let the women in sports.

[00:45:32] I think right now we're – it's back to, again, an executive order that got signed in February. And, you know, we are – it's – I'm going to say a couple things. The executive order is called keeping men out of women's sports. So in and of itself, as you just said, that's wrong because these are transgender women. They are not men.

[00:45:56] And, you know, and it mandates that all educational institutions, no one will receive any federal funding unless they prohibit transgender girls and women from participating in female sports teams.

[00:46:12] The double-edged sword or the part that I'm just going to comment on here a little bit is this isn't about keeping women or his – so not transgender men out of men's sports, though. So that's the other part that I just find – Oh! Oh! Oh!

[00:46:31] It's also – it's just about keeping transgender women, so previously men, out of female sports, but not the other way around because they feel it's an unfair advantage. Really? And so, again, this is where the whole – What are you – wait, stop. Why am I so dumb? So, yeah, it's not about being trans in sports.

[00:47:00] It's about men and women's sports. And we know that these are trans women, not men. Okay.

[00:47:11] And unfortunately, so the National Collegiate Athletic Association, so the NCAA, they are complying with the order and praised it for providing a clear national standard on the issue because they felt that the conflicting state laws and court decisions previously – so, you know, back to the state should control things, but maybe they shouldn't. So, there you go again.

[00:47:34] Subsequently, the NCAA amended its policy to restrict women's sports competitions to athletes assigned female at birth effective immediately. Also, the California Interscholastic Federation, so their sports federation, they are – they announced basically that they would continue to adhere to state law permitting transgender athletes from participating in sports aligning with their gender identity.

[00:48:01] So, you know, California is saying no. Now, I will also, again, because we try to balance these things and we try to be inclusive, I will point out that there was a New York Times survey conducted in January 2025 that found that 79% of Americans support restricting transgender athletes from competing in women's – women's, let's be clear, in women's sports. So, again, it's just the one side of it. It's not both sides of it.

[00:48:30] So, it is the – it's not fair if a transgender woman competes with other cisgender women. And so, it's just – it's fascinating and it's so – it's just ridiculous. You know, I don't understand – I don't understand so much of the logic here.

[00:48:54] But, you know, I think that the piece that it's – they're, again, bullying these institutions, bullying these groups into saying you have to do these things. And we did look this up because I was curious. There are – what was the number I told you earlier, Jackie? What was the number I told you about? I think it was 10. Right. 10. 10.

[00:49:20] Not 10%, but 10 transgender athletes in the NCAA currently. How – of how many – let me tell you. How many players in the NCAA? Out of the – I beg your pardon, give me one second. 500,000 student-athletes.

[00:49:47] So, of the 500,000 student-athletes, 10 of them were transgender. So, we're focusing on really important topics as well from an executive order perspective. Not at all. No, we're not. I mean, the thing is, going back, we know that they've been trying to do all these bathrooms and trying to figure out what people that they can just bully around.

[00:50:17] You know, they're – like, they want to deal with, like, a trans woman on the track team, which is ridiculous because why – these are our taxpayer money. These are our dollars going to fight these things. Not tackling, you know, I don't know, school bullying. Maybe why don't you give teachers a raise? Or why don't you try to deal with sexual assault on campus? No. Just kidding. Why don't you see if there's any trans women on, like, less than 1% that is daring to play sports?

[00:50:46] It's so transparently fueled by bias and not fairness that they claim that they want to have. I know every major women's sports advocacy group that I know of, like the women's soccer stars, the WNBA, Megan Rapinoe, Billie Jean King, et cetera, they have spoken out that trans inclusion in sports can be done fairly and that trans women are women.

[00:51:11] There's nuance to how each league handles it, sure, but painting trans athletes as boogie men – or, I guess, boogie people, because we want to be inclusive by you – undermining women's sports is a myth. But unfortunately, Trump's megaphone gave that myth a lot of airtime, especially last week when, again, he had that mama up there whose daughter got hit in the face and broke her nose, really sad about it.

[00:51:36] But I had somebody from another girl, like, from a cisgender assigned at birth female, had her nose broken in volleyball as well. So stop it. Stop trying to ban trans girls from youth sports. It's a scare tactic, and it's working. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:51:57] So, Jackie, I know we just talked about a lot of stuff, and, you know, I think first and foremost, human rights. So trans rights are human rights. The United Nations Human Rights Committee urged the U.S. to address the high rates of discrimination and violence against trans people, and we know that that's what it comes down to is the harming of humans.

[00:52:23] And, you know, and I know that there's a lot that goes into this, and we just have to keep arming people with facts and making sure folks know, you know, on that kind of – what are the counterpoints to this? These are humans that we're talking about. That's right. And I will tell you, you have to vote. So I know that this election is already done, but it's just so important.

[00:52:53] You have to vote, and not just for presidents, right? All of this is being allowed to happen, and these are the people that we put in place to protect us that are going against these athletes and going against our own rights. This is just one example, and you have to make sure that you're voting and support candidates who see trans people as people.

[00:53:15] And if those candidates aren't in your area, support organizations helping to get out the vote in places where anti-trans initiatives are on the ballot, because it's ridiculous when you just have to. And we're going to put some notes here in the show notes just to make sure folks understand that these are real-life impacts and also give some resources for folks.

[00:53:45] I would also – I know that, you know, Human Rights Campaign has a lot of resources. There's a trans lifeline that's a support hotline for transgender people. But I also am going to just to give kind of a little – add a little humor if I can.

[00:54:06] You know, I did see a person on Twitter making a joke about, I was erased and all I got was this lousy T-shirt. You know, but it's a commentary based on, like, we're still here.

[00:54:21] And, you know, trans people continue to fall in love, accomplish great things, live their lives despite all of the inequity and all of the horrible impacts that Trump policies and executive orders are having. And, you know, as Inclusive AF, we want to always center that humanity. You know, we – obviously, we shared some stats. We shared some specifics here during the episode.

[00:54:49] And, you know, this is not about bashing politicians or praising other folks. It's really about our friends and family. And some of you listening might be trans or non-binary. Some of you might have a trans child, a sibling, whatever that might be.

[00:55:07] And we just want to say that, you know, we – even if you don't know a trans person, although I think that's always the one I love to hear because, you know, you might not think you know a trans person, but you probably do. But showing a little bit of empathy and being empathetic humans that understand that no one deserves to be treated the way that these policies are being written and turning that around.

[00:55:31] And so, you know, we will definitely share some resources to make sure everyone is aware of kind of what they can do and how they can offer support. And this is the part where we say the one thing we want everybody to remember. And if I had to pick one thing, it would be hard. But I just want to say, like, trans people are people. They are people.

[00:55:57] And so we have to quit marginalizing people, especially this population. It just makes me really sad. And I would echo that because I like to echo what you say. I always do. But I also would love to just point out that, you know, we want to know and want to share that we are here for folks. And I mentioned the Trevor Group hotline earlier.

[00:56:25] I just want to call out that phone number. It's 1-866-488-7386. Please write that down. Please share that with any transgender folks that you know of, especially transgender kids. They are there to help and to listen. And, you know, I think that's one that I want everyone to stay safe, stay strong, and, of course, stay inclusive AF. And I just, yeah.

[00:56:54] I know, really, to get in there because we don't do this ever. And we want you to make sure that you're following us. We see the numbers. We know that we have millions of fans. Please make sure and, like, like and subscribe. And if something in this episode sparked an idea or feeling, share it with us on social media or just shoot us a message. Because this is really a dialogue and every voice is welcome. Yes, every voice, including our trans folks whom we love.

[00:57:21] And so until next time, take care of yourselves and each other. Do you like that? That's, like, from 2020. Like the TV show. I could use my mom's. Oh, yes. Know that you are loved, Jackie. Aw. I like that. Folks don't know, but we were talking about my mother before this episode. So, yeah, here's to Cecilia. All right, folks. We will see you all soon. Thanks for listening.

[00:57:51] This is Katie Van Horn. And this is Jackie Clayton. Bye.