Unveiling the Journey: Rachel Dalboth’s 25 Years in Talent Acquisition

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[00:01:03] What is going on everybody? Ryan Leary, William Tinkup here with the Practitioners Corner. William, I see you waving at me. How are you today?

[00:01:13] I'm doing well, man. I'm doing well. It's a good day.

[00:01:16] Never had a bad day in your life?

[00:01:18] Eh, no, I've had several.

[00:01:21] Not today. Today's a good day.

[00:01:24] Today, who sang that song? Today's Good Day. What was it? What was the name of that song? It's completely different from my head.

[00:01:30] You were on your own. Ice Cube. Ice Cube.

[00:01:33] Was that right? Yes.

[00:01:34] Am I off? Am I way off? No.

[00:01:36] Way off? Yeah, but I don't know what the name of the song was today. It was a good day.

[00:01:40] Yeah. No.

[00:01:41] Anyway, we are here for somebody more important than us. We are talking with Rachel Dalba.

[00:01:49] Dalba.

[00:01:50] Dalba. I got close. I got close.

[00:01:52] I got close. You're so close.

[00:01:55] From the Talent Labs.

[00:01:57] Rachel, how are you today? Welcome.

[00:01:59] I am well. I was just saying to you guys a second ago, it is toasty here. It's like, how

[00:02:04] could we start this without just having a no as a Brit about the fact it's now caught?

[00:02:09] Are you in Texas too?

[00:02:11] Dope.

[00:02:11] You don't sound like you're in Texas.

[00:02:13] I'm not in Texas. I feel like I'm in Texas.

[00:02:16] It's not, but yeah.

[00:02:17] It's probably not summer. Five years of summer.

[00:02:20] Nice.

[00:02:21] We've had an hour outside of London.

[00:02:23] Yeah.

[00:02:24] So, okay. So Rachel, this show is all about you. This is the practitioner's corner. So

[00:02:30] we want to learn about your background, your history, your journey, the good, the bad, not

[00:02:34] the ugly, because there's never ugly, but.

[00:02:36] Never.

[00:02:37] Yeah.

[00:02:39] Why don't we kick us off with an intro? Tell the audience a little bit about yourself.

[00:02:46] Sure.

[00:02:46] What are you doing now?

[00:02:48] So, hi.

[00:02:48] So, hi. Yeah, I'm Rachel. I work as our director of TA Center of Excellence, which is a very

[00:02:53] fancy part of saying that I-

[00:02:54] Very fancy.

[00:02:55] That's a very fancy way of saying that I-

[00:02:57] I feel very insignificant.

[00:02:58] My God.

[00:02:59] Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:59] I've had a team that curates and creates sort of our kind of expert TA content for the

[00:03:04] talent.

[00:03:05] So, for those that know that I've heard as well as Duke and White know as more historically

[00:03:08] as a fellow.

[00:03:10] It's the new brand recently.

[00:03:12] So we know our hands since about 2007.

[00:03:15] So that is really clean week.

[00:03:17] I was looking at the talent house, looking at talent professionals globally.

[00:03:20] And my head at Athena looks after TAX, it was all the content, how that.

[00:03:24] So, yeah, that's kind of a role at the moment.

[00:03:26] But in TA for, there was 25 years.

[00:03:30] Yeah.

[00:03:31] Must have loved it, right?

[00:03:33] Do you want us to beep that part out?

[00:03:34] It didn't fall out.

[00:03:35] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:37] Beep.

[00:03:38] Yes.

[00:03:38] What the reasoning for the rebrand?

[00:03:42] Is it just time to kind of-

[00:03:43] Reason to be rebrand.

[00:03:44] Yeah, no, a very good question.

[00:03:45] So, I think it's, you know, it's very well known that there needs to be a little bit

[00:03:50] more of a connectivity of the dots, right, between all of those kind of what were silos

[00:03:56] in talent management, talent development, talent requisitions.

[00:03:59] So, I think we've really seen that leading our pit, responded to that, kind of really expanded

[00:04:05] that portfolio across, you know, TA professionals globally.

[00:04:08] So, very well received.

[00:04:10] It was a busy few weeks, but yeah, really pleased that that's-

[00:04:13] Can we just talk about the company named The Firm?

[00:04:18] That's pretty cool.

[00:04:18] The Firm, yes.

[00:04:19] That's pretty badass.

[00:04:20] I'm not gonna lie.

[00:04:22] The Firm.

[00:04:22] That's pretty cool.

[00:04:23] But the Talent Labs is really good too.

[00:04:24] So, that's two really good names.

[00:04:26] Thank you.

[00:04:27] The Firm just sounds like-

[00:04:29] What do you want?

[00:04:30] The Firm.

[00:04:30] I'm either scared about you, scared of you, or it means I really need to be in touch with

[00:04:37] you.

[00:04:37] I'm not sure which, but I like the name.

[00:04:39] Well, it means a lot of things in different places, right?

[00:04:42] So, globally it has different influences, which is another thing that, you know, we had

[00:04:46] to think about.

[00:04:47] Yeah.

[00:04:48] It literally is just a form for in-house recruitment managers.

[00:04:50] We're not just for recruitment managers.

[00:04:52] We're not just for managers.

[00:04:54] Oh, is that one, yeah?

[00:04:54] We're not just for recruitment now.

[00:04:56] So, again, the name was part of our history, but the Talent Labs is our future.

[00:05:02] Oh, yeah.

[00:05:03] Well, it's the CIA.

[00:05:05] Most people that are close to that world, they don't call it CIA.

[00:05:09] They call it the agency.

[00:05:10] The agency, yeah.

[00:05:11] So, like, they don't, if you're in that world, they don't ever say CIA.

[00:05:17] They just say agency.

[00:05:19] Yeah.

[00:05:19] And you know what they're talking about.

[00:05:22] Interesting.

[00:05:23] The firm.

[00:05:24] Anyhow, so you've been working for the firm for how long?

[00:05:28] I've come out six years this year, which is fun.

[00:05:31] It's just fun.

[00:05:32] So, there's daytime flies when you're having fun.

[00:05:34] But it's so, you know, big move.

[00:05:37] Obviously previously at Unilever, so I was heading the UK and Ireland recruitment team.

[00:05:43] And I think I was employee number four, maybe, or five at the Talent Labs.

[00:05:49] Yeah, just shy six years ago.

[00:05:51] Wow.

[00:05:51] Yeah.

[00:05:52] Crazy.

[00:05:53] How many boys know?

[00:05:54] Almost 30.

[00:05:55] Okay.

[00:05:56] That's great.

[00:05:57] Yeah, it's really great.

[00:05:59] So, a day in the life at the Talent Labs.

[00:06:02] What is that for you?

[00:06:04] Gosh.

[00:06:04] Well, no, I get it.

[00:06:05] It all says no to these and say much.

[00:06:08] Genuinely, they're not.

[00:06:08] I mean, I'm really blessed.

[00:06:10] I do something that I love without still being a recruiter or in that kind of cure recruitment

[00:06:18] domain.

[00:06:19] And I think that was always a big, a bit of a concern personally.

[00:06:23] Right.

[00:06:24] Just as Rachel personally, I think making that shift out of that, I mean, done it for

[00:06:29] so long, was a really big decision to make.

[00:06:33] One, I have not regretted for one second of any day because it's using that experience.

[00:06:41] It's still in that industry that I love, but it's doing three different rides.

[00:06:45] So, the role that I play is about looking at our strategies.

[00:06:49] So, how do we think about content, research?

[00:06:52] How do we think about the training and consultancy services that we have?

[00:06:56] You know, you're not dealing with the same fight.

[00:06:58] You're not dealing with the same problems.

[00:07:00] Right.

[00:07:00] You're not dealing with the same people.

[00:07:01] So, for me, that's just an absolute privilege.

[00:07:06] And I mean that without being like totally teasy about it.

[00:07:09] It's absolutely a privilege to kind of go in and with the team get under the skin of what

[00:07:14] the problems are people are trying to solve.

[00:07:16] And so, I'll be good.

[00:07:17] We all know talent acquisition is a bloody hard job.

[00:07:21] There's no one called pretending otherwise.

[00:07:24] Huge amounts of pressure.

[00:07:26] And if we can, you know, if myself and the team can do it, we can support people doing the job that I loved, but I know it was hard at times.

[00:07:35] Then that's a good day as far as I've been said.

[00:07:37] And now we're doing that for professionals and coffee.

[00:07:39] So, yeah.

[00:07:41] Yeah.

[00:07:43] So, this show is about you, your background and all that fun stuff.

[00:07:49] And we did a little bit of talking in pre-show.

[00:07:51] But I think it's worth bringing it out to the audience.

[00:07:55] So, how did you get started in this space?

[00:07:59] For everyone that's listening, how did you jump into the world of HR?

[00:08:05] Well, I'm telling you, I'm weird because I didn't do an agency at all.

[00:08:10] Like, at all.

[00:08:13] And...

[00:08:13] Which is odd.

[00:08:15] It is odd, right?

[00:08:16] It is odd.

[00:08:17] Let's be honest about it.

[00:08:19] Who waits up and runs to their parents and goes, I want to be a recruiter.

[00:08:23] No one.

[00:08:23] I hope that didn't happen either.

[00:08:26] No one.

[00:08:26] I had my vision set on being a cop star, as most teenage girls do.

[00:08:33] Oh, I like this.

[00:08:34] Yeah.

[00:08:35] It was tough.

[00:08:36] What were you going to say?

[00:08:37] Spice Girls.

[00:08:38] I was going to say Spice Girls, but I didn't want to categorize there.

[00:08:43] No.

[00:08:44] Spice Girls were awesome.

[00:08:45] Any of that would have been a full of suit.

[00:08:47] Although you also know it's my great conversation that it wasn't just a type of pop thing that

[00:08:51] I was into.

[00:08:52] No, you were going deep.

[00:08:53] Huge Oasis fan.

[00:08:54] You were going deep.

[00:08:56] You were going meaningful.

[00:08:58] No.

[00:08:59] So...

[00:09:00] I remember kind of like genuinely thinking that was what I was going to go and do.

[00:09:05] And I had a very kind of neepsial conversation with my dad who was like, don't ever get the

[00:09:11] proper job.

[00:09:13] And for some reason, for someone who really, really hated maths for the time, ended up doing this

[00:09:19] like business and finance course thinking, what was this content?

[00:09:24] But if handling a bid on HR has the stuff in the law that has some people's stuff like counseling.

[00:09:31] And I remember that caught my imagination a bit more than the kind of stats and economics.

[00:09:38] And so, you know, that tubercle thing.

[00:09:40] I don't know if you do it in the UK, you have to go and do this kind of work experience.

[00:09:46] Right.

[00:09:46] That was the big thing.

[00:09:48] Hey, this is William Tincup, work to find.

[00:09:51] Hey, listen, I'd like to talk to you a little bit about inside the C-suite, the podcast.

[00:09:55] It's a look into the journey of how one goes from high school, college, whatever, all the

[00:10:01] way to the C-suite, all the ups and downs, failures, successes, all that stuff.

[00:10:05] Give it a listen.

[00:10:06] Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:10:08] Yes.

[00:10:11] And for anyone who's of my era in the UK, there is a particular shop where you go and buy

[00:10:17] shiny suits.

[00:10:18] You have to have shiny suits at work here, certainly.

[00:10:21] And I know that I'm doing them by myself, per most of my work experience.

[00:10:26] And, you know, I was doing any of HR stuff.

[00:10:28] Didn't know I was just not close to people in an office.

[00:10:32] And then got stuck in shelves, thinking, what?

[00:10:36] That shiny suit didn't last very long, stuck in shelves.

[00:10:39] And I just said to them, well, what do the rest of this life?

[00:10:41] I'm out.

[00:10:42] I did, I think, one day, maybe two.

[00:10:44] So that.

[00:10:45] And so I find my own.

[00:10:46] I'll sort out my own work experience.

[00:10:49] And I don't know, even to this day, how I managed it.

[00:10:51] I ran up a load of companies and I was really persistent about it.

[00:10:56] And lucky I took, I think, sympathy for me.

[00:11:01] You sound like you've been talking to a lot of companies.

[00:11:04] Come on in.

[00:11:05] Yeah.

[00:11:05] We'll talk with you.

[00:11:07] Come on.

[00:11:07] You're not afraid of the phone.

[00:11:08] I mean, what I love about that is that most people that don't have a staffing background,

[00:11:14] they have call reluctance, especially these days.

[00:11:17] They want to do everything through the computer.

[00:11:19] So let's do chat.

[00:11:21] I mean, it was phone or phone.

[00:11:23] Yeah.

[00:11:23] Yeah.

[00:11:24] I don't know if it was reluctance.

[00:11:26] Like, you just have a choice.

[00:11:27] You had to call.

[00:11:28] Yeah.

[00:11:29] No, because Ryan, I, we hired a staffing firm at one point.

[00:11:33] And I remember talking to the manager of that particular unit.

[00:11:37] And she said, listen, if they can't make 200 calls a day, we just let them go.

[00:11:42] Yeah.

[00:11:43] So it's not so much reluctance, but it's the appetite, I guess, to be able to get that much rejection.

[00:11:50] I guess.

[00:11:50] Because, you know, 200 calls, you're going to have, what, 198 of them are going to be bad.

[00:11:56] Yeah.

[00:11:57] Yeah.

[00:11:57] Depends who's calling.

[00:11:58] No, thank you.

[00:11:58] Click.

[00:11:59] You know, whatever.

[00:12:00] Depends who's calling.

[00:12:02] Yeah.

[00:12:02] Yeah.

[00:12:03] Yeah.

[00:12:03] I can see that.

[00:12:05] I just remember thinking, because at the time he got on phone and up here was like in his heyday.

[00:12:12] That was it.

[00:12:13] It was the phone, right?

[00:12:14] Yeah.

[00:12:15] It was the phone.

[00:12:16] I still don't understand what happened to him, quite frankly.

[00:12:18] Like someone's going to explain it to me at one point.

[00:12:20] But yeah.

[00:12:21] I had.

[00:12:22] We're going to come to find.

[00:12:23] No, he was the phone.

[00:12:24] They are the technology and the power behind everything we have today.

[00:12:29] Oh, they.

[00:12:29] That's what we're going to find.

[00:12:29] They're still there.

[00:12:30] That's it.

[00:12:30] There you go.

[00:12:32] Yeah.

[00:12:32] Hmm.

[00:12:33] It was like a big, it was a big thing I remember thinking.

[00:12:37] I was super cool.

[00:12:38] It's becoming.

[00:12:39] I can't remember if it was a week or a couple of weeks, something like that.

[00:12:42] Not very long.

[00:12:44] And getting involved with the NHL.

[00:12:46] So I'm passed back with recruitment.

[00:12:47] And I just went, I don't know what this is.

[00:12:50] But that's the problem I do.

[00:12:51] That's a hundred percent of them I want to do.

[00:12:52] I make it fun like you've lost two weeks.

[00:12:54] Right?

[00:12:55] And then you've changed.

[00:12:57] I've told you guys are alluding to this story.

[00:12:59] It is changing.

[00:13:00] This is my career.

[00:13:01] This is going to sound made up and I swear to you it's not.

[00:13:05] I went in to, I then went and sort of worked with them for a past six months.

[00:13:13] I'd worked for an opportunity in the mobile flight inception.

[00:13:16] Not in the, that we did.

[00:13:17] Go playing my golf only, but in Matavision.

[00:13:20] Right.

[00:13:20] And they loved it.

[00:13:21] It was me.

[00:13:22] It was just a contract.

[00:13:23] I was still proper green.

[00:13:25] And I walked and walked into a recruitment agency.

[00:13:28] It was a high street agency and said, look, I need to get a new world.

[00:13:32] We then were a recruitment.

[00:13:33] And she said, okay, to me to the base.

[00:13:35] What do you want?

[00:13:35] And I said, I want to recruit me to all.

[00:13:39] Game in Nokia.

[00:13:40] So the fact is that.

[00:13:41] Yeah.

[00:13:44] I want a Bentley.

[00:13:46] Got it.

[00:13:46] Yeah.

[00:13:48] I look back now, the naivety of that statement.

[00:13:51] Like, that's what I want to do.

[00:13:53] I'll wait for it.

[00:13:54] And she was like, you have six months experience.

[00:13:57] That is one organized age tree.

[00:13:59] You'll be lucky to get in recruitment anywhere.

[00:14:01] And they'll see the niggas like, that's what we'll do.

[00:14:04] And this is no woe of the mind.

[00:14:06] There's a fax machine behind her.

[00:14:08] People speak people.

[00:14:09] A fax machine starts going.

[00:14:11] And she takes it out.

[00:14:13] Brumary is on my board.

[00:14:15] It's a recruitment role.

[00:14:16] And another division of Nokia.

[00:14:19] I'm like, that's my job.

[00:14:21] Put me forward for it.

[00:14:22] Don't.

[00:14:22] Yeah.

[00:14:22] I don't think she thought I could get in job.

[00:14:25] But yeah, there I was.

[00:14:27] Seven week takes from when my mother was.

[00:14:28] Another person takes pity.

[00:14:30] And I feel like.

[00:14:33] They might have been stalking them.

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:35] Like, they're just getting to do all this.

[00:14:37] I feel like we need to go find this woman.

[00:14:40] Oh, yeah.

[00:14:41] And thank her for your long career now.

[00:14:43] I know her.

[00:14:44] I still know her.

[00:14:45] Oh, well.

[00:14:46] Oh, that's crazy.

[00:14:47] Yeah.

[00:14:47] Oh, that's awesome.

[00:14:48] Yeah.

[00:14:49] Because no one believes the space.

[00:14:51] Oh, yeah.

[00:14:51] Sorry.

[00:14:52] Well, the thing is, is you once you figure out that you want to be in TA.

[00:14:58] Probably figure out that you were going to be good at it.

[00:15:01] And that you could be good at it.

[00:15:03] And you just like, again, I think half of half of the game of TA, especially at that

[00:15:08] time was just being confident and being aggressive.

[00:15:11] And that fits of.

[00:15:13] I think it also comes down to just like, what do I know after two weeks?

[00:15:18] Right.

[00:15:18] I feel a bit more after six months, but even then.

[00:15:21] Right.

[00:15:21] But I think if you, if you can connect what we're doing is some boring thing that you enjoy

[00:15:28] for me is people.

[00:15:29] Right.

[00:15:29] So again, all of these words are for HR people.

[00:15:33] That's a bright answer.

[00:15:34] You shouldn't be doing it because it's about.

[00:15:36] I got an HR because I love numbers.

[00:15:38] Yeah.

[00:15:38] It's not doing investigations.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:43] I was a scribe once in those early six months and I was like, I'm not into Joe.

[00:15:48] I mean, I'm very jealous.

[00:15:49] They are just on that one.

[00:15:52] No,

[00:15:53] Um, you know, I think it is about confidence, but it was that I think it was also just,

[00:15:59] I just really enjoyed the people aspect of it.

[00:16:03] And word will always keep call and just, I mean, I was in manufacturing as well.

[00:16:07] So there's some stories that come out of repreasing in Man of Couture maybe as well.

[00:16:11] The statue of limitations has run out on some of those stories.

[00:16:14] Uh, yeah.

[00:16:16] How was it?

[00:16:17] How was it?

[00:16:18] Oh, brilliant.

[00:16:20] I hear actually some of the best memories.

[00:16:22] I still got friends from there even now.

[00:16:24] We're talking, you know, over 20 years ago now.

[00:16:27] And, uh, yeah, it was brilliant.

[00:16:28] It was an amazing place.

[00:16:30] Well, I remember, you know, going out to Helsinki.

[00:16:32] You've got to remember, you know, I've never had an opportunity like that before.

[00:16:35] So it was, um, it was the real, yeah, it was a real opportunity.

[00:16:39] I think I did like probably five years ago.

[00:16:42] I loved it.

[00:16:44] There were a finish and they had an office in Dallas, huge office in Dallas.

[00:16:52] And I remember people that worked there telling me that it's, it's different working for a Scandinavian company.

[00:16:58] Like they actually care about work life balance.

[00:17:00] Cause I remember them going, yeah, they, they, they want us to take time off.

[00:17:05] Like, you know, even though we're busy, even though things are crazy, whatever, like they want you to go on holiday.

[00:17:11] And I'm like.

[00:17:12] Well, it was different working in manufacturing anyway, cause you've got shift work going on around you.

[00:17:16] So actually it was, I was very lucky.

[00:17:18] I think I lived about two minutes away from where I worked.

[00:17:23] So that, that helps.

[00:17:24] And then secondly, on a Friday we finished it.

[00:17:27] I think it was three or half three, something like that.

[00:17:30] And genuinely these are the days where everybody would meet up after work.

[00:17:35] That was time to everybody afterwards.

[00:17:37] Isn't that why we went to the office on Fridays?

[00:17:40] Sorry, second.

[00:17:41] That's why we went to the office on Fridays.

[00:17:44] Yeah.

[00:17:45] Yeah.

[00:17:46] Yeah.

[00:17:46] But by that then there was no choice.

[00:17:47] It was office or office, right?

[00:17:49] There was no.

[00:17:49] There was no flexibility.

[00:17:52] That is true.

[00:17:53] That is true.

[00:17:53] Yeah, no option.

[00:17:54] But you go to a pub and hang out, drink, have fun.

[00:17:58] Yeah.

[00:17:59] People were down on the roof of the Friday.

[00:18:00] They could be playing the street.

[00:18:02] Some people were involved for walks.

[00:18:03] There was a real sense of camaraderie, I think.

[00:18:07] Oh, wow.

[00:18:07] You know.

[00:18:08] I'm lucky.

[00:18:09] I work for a business now that is, I'm completely lost it, fully your own.

[00:18:13] Fully your own.

[00:18:14] Right.

[00:18:14] I tossed it around the country, fully your own.

[00:18:16] You have to take a really deep responsibility for still having that camaraderie that,

[00:18:23] you know, we're talking about years ago would have been solely when you're based in an office.

[00:18:28] So let me ask you this.

[00:18:30] Let me ask you this question.

[00:18:31] So you bring up a good point.

[00:18:33] You were at, and obviously this is a long time ago, right?

[00:18:35] We all had to be in the office, right?

[00:18:38] When you were there.

[00:18:39] Where you're at now with talent labs, you're fully remote.

[00:18:43] Fully.

[00:18:43] There are, I'm assuming a lot of people that have been in HR or recruiting for a very long time that are listening to the show.

[00:18:53] And they're now maybe in management, right?

[00:18:57] They've, they've stepped up.

[00:18:58] They're in management.

[00:18:59] They're having trouble managing from being in an office and growing up in an office to managing a fully remote team at this point.

[00:19:10] And it kind of feels like old news to me.

[00:19:12] I don't know how much you guys feel about this.

[00:19:14] It feels like old news to me because it's been a couple of years now that we've all been fully remote, but for the person who is struggling to really build a camaraderie and to really build that connection.

[00:19:25] How have you made that transition?

[00:19:26] I think it's a very interesting question.

[00:19:28] And I think translation is a funny word because we've always been remote at the talent labs.

[00:19:33] We were remote first.

[00:19:34] Right.

[00:19:35] So this was not on the back of the pandemic, for example.

[00:19:39] And I get that therefore there is a different thing between business trying to pull a team and just trying to transition from something that looks like one thing and becomes another.

[00:19:49] And I do think that that's more difficult to a degree.

[00:19:52] I think general, general principles, general advice.

[00:19:57] You've got to want to still connect with people.

[00:20:00] Like if you're one of these that just wants to be solo, heads down, then, you know, that sort of team is another work for you.

[00:20:09] Right.

[00:20:10] So I think it's about how you, how you open up as many different channels for people as possible, because not everybody loves the same thing.

[00:20:18] You know, some people are very happy to have someone on the phone very regularly.

[00:20:23] Some people need a bit of head space.

[00:20:26] Some people like chitchat, others don't.

[00:20:28] So I think just generally you have to think about how do you open up as many channels.

[00:20:33] And some of that's about work stuff.

[00:20:35] And some of that is about you as human beings, you want to person in front, you know, sharing.

[00:20:41] Saying that we like, we post them in the cat and dogs in the way, what's in this team is ridiculous.

[00:20:46] You know, it can't be just sharing stuff like that.

[00:20:48] Like there's not one person in the team that hasn't met my dog at some point, right?

[00:20:52] That's what you would have been doing on a walk or at the pub or whatever.

[00:20:57] You'd have been talking about your kids or parents or whatever else.

[00:21:02] So it's the same stuff.

[00:21:03] It's the intentionality of everyone involved.

[00:21:08] I think had we not been all through COVID, I think, you know, it's probably another 15 years out.

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[00:21:47] So klingt Istanbul, wenn du genau hinhörst.

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[00:22:17] For a lot of mainstream companies to be remote.

[00:22:21] But because we're all forced on Thursday to be remote, we had to figure it out.

[00:22:28] And again, some people figured it out better than others.

[00:22:31] Some companies that started fully remote didn't see any change.

[00:22:36] I mean, I think for us, Ryan and I worked at a company at the time, but we were fully remote.

[00:22:44] No.

[00:22:44] What changed for us was our Zoom calls used to be just calls.

[00:22:50] We just didn't simply use our cell phone, we'd use Zoom.

[00:22:53] And then all of a sudden during COVID, we'd turn on our video.

[00:22:56] Yeah, we had.

[00:22:58] That was the only difference.

[00:22:59] That was the only change.

[00:23:00] That's not the only change.

[00:23:02] You had to start wearing clothes.

[00:23:04] Like I legit had to go.

[00:23:07] I had to actually start to get a wardrobe.

[00:23:11] Like, this is what I own.

[00:23:13] Like, this is it right here.

[00:23:14] I struggle.

[00:23:16] I do.

[00:23:16] This is one of my, not my superpower.

[00:23:18] I struggle, Rachel, to find clothes to wear.

[00:23:23] But this is the thing about intentionality.

[00:23:25] I want to pick up on what you said, William.

[00:23:27] I kind of convinced what you were talking about as well.

[00:23:28] Like, would you?

[00:23:29] There's an intentionality about how people are going to work,

[00:23:32] and the culture that you want to create,

[00:23:34] and the team that you want to be part of, right?

[00:23:36] That doesn't still have to be affectionate about that, to be great.

[00:23:40] Right.

[00:23:40] It's definitely a bit of a feedback, clearly,

[00:23:42] because this might be me personally to it.

[00:23:45] I suspect it is.

[00:23:46] I get up as a gift fan going to one head's face every day.

[00:23:50] You're the only one.

[00:23:52] You're the only one.

[00:23:53] We found the person.

[00:23:55] We found the oddball.

[00:23:56] Here she is.

[00:23:57] No.

[00:23:57] No, we found the unicorn.

[00:23:59] I'm owning it.

[00:24:00] You put on makeup, the whole bit.

[00:24:02] You do that every day.

[00:24:03] The whole thing.

[00:24:04] Even if you're not going to talk to somebody.

[00:24:05] Even if you're not going to talk to somebody.

[00:24:06] That's not about necessarily to do with how I want to look.

[00:24:12] That's how I want to feel.

[00:24:13] Feel.

[00:24:14] Yes.

[00:24:14] So for me, there is something about you tuning in with that intentional purpose.

[00:24:20] Right.

[00:24:20] And listen, you know what?

[00:24:21] I only have people laugh about it.

[00:24:22] I get it.

[00:24:23] But for me, that's about when I sit down at the desk.

[00:24:27] You need to be.

[00:24:28] That's what I want to feel like.

[00:24:29] Does it frustrate you ever when you get on a call and people don't turn on their video?

[00:24:34] Does it frustrate me?

[00:24:36] Like?

[00:24:37] Listen, everyone's got their own reasons, right?

[00:24:38] I mean, I have funny backgrounds.

[00:24:41] I certainly have, you know, the chores of kids and dogs and all sorts of things.

[00:24:46] I get it.

[00:24:46] You might see some kids walking through the door.

[00:24:49] Yeah.

[00:24:49] I get it.

[00:24:50] So I don't know if it frustrate is the wrong way.

[00:24:53] I do think, and then it's a very human thing, isn't it?

[00:24:56] Being able to see someone eye to eye, being able to see someone smile at you or not smile

[00:25:02] at you.

[00:25:02] Right.

[00:25:03] You know, it gives you some cues about how that conversation's going.

[00:25:07] But because of the frustration, I think everybody's got their own stuff.

[00:25:10] I might ask the question, hey, my camera, I'll be smart about whether someone's comfortable

[00:25:15] as well as what they're aiming to, right?

[00:25:17] Right.

[00:25:19] You know, it's interesting you say that because I don't really, I guess I think about it, but

[00:25:23] I don't think about what I'm wearing to the home office.

[00:25:28] Because if I, if I don't wear sneakers or shoes, like I don't feel like I can, I can't work

[00:25:37] without shoes on.

[00:25:38] Really?

[00:25:39] Is that weird?

[00:25:40] Is that really weird?

[00:25:41] That's insane.

[00:25:42] I need an old school mouse, right?

[00:25:44] So for those that are not watching, the mouse, right?

[00:25:47] And when I talk, I kind of need a headset.

[00:25:49] Like, I don't feel like I can think and be creative.

[00:25:53] Now, I will say sitting in front of the camera, sitting here in this little box does hinder

[00:26:01] my creativity.

[00:26:03] It does.

[00:26:03] And I have not gotten past that yet.

[00:26:05] If I walk around, you will get a much better conversation from me.

[00:26:08] Interesting.

[00:26:09] But that's really interesting too, because you were talking about like what changed for

[00:26:13] you, which is this video on and you were having calls and then suddenly the video was on.

[00:26:17] But I speak that there's a massive place for phone calls.

[00:26:20] Don't we thought about me?

[00:26:21] You weren't allowing a phone call in the, in the nineties.

[00:26:24] I still am a bit of a fan because there's that other thing, which is you cannot just

[00:26:27] tap your box all day.

[00:26:30] It doesn't matter if you're remote or not.

[00:26:31] You know, I am, I am not going to claim, I've heard people listening from my team going,

[00:26:36] this is very advice that you don't take it way too far.

[00:26:40] There is something about, even if you're going down to make a cup of tea or you're walking

[00:26:44] with dog or you're whatever it is, still having a conversation while you're doing something

[00:26:51] else, you know, like moving around.

[00:26:53] I have to talk about making people have conversations and genuine break time.

[00:26:57] I'm talking about, you know, how do you just, for me, I'm a pacer.

[00:27:02] So if anyone's ever seen me, because then I am a videographer's worst nightmare.

[00:27:05] I've been told to send these us because that's a case.

[00:27:08] Really bad.

[00:27:09] And I'm the same on the phone.

[00:27:10] If I want to have a conversation where it doesn't need to be on video, sometimes I'll

[00:27:14] say, let's just do a phone call because I am more creative when I can move around.

[00:27:19] So if I'm brainstorming with somebody, I'll be more okay for some reason.

[00:27:22] I don't know.

[00:27:22] I don't know.

[00:27:23] That's interesting.

[00:27:25] That's for both of y'all.

[00:27:26] That's fascinating.

[00:27:27] I haven't given any thought and I will now.

[00:27:31] So what made you leave Nokia?

[00:27:33] Do you know, I was made a Dundon and it was a, that was a really tough thing to deal

[00:27:39] with because I was still quite young.

[00:27:44] And I've never experienced something like that before.

[00:27:48] And actually this is going to sound quite a bit geek.

[00:27:52] I really grieve that job.

[00:27:54] Like I loved that job.

[00:27:55] And I was fully naive to think, but slip that job done.

[00:27:59] I've stayed here for long, you know, retired.

[00:28:01] So, and I just, I think that was a really hard thing because when you do have a job that

[00:28:06] you love and you really enjoy the keep your work, you get it and stuff.

[00:28:09] That was a very difficult, but probably very important lesson to going through because not

[00:28:18] least, I remember not doing great job of spending my redundancy money wisely, but you know.

[00:28:24] Right.

[00:28:25] It was an important thing to go through, but it was really hard at the time.

[00:28:28] I was like, that's it.

[00:28:29] Like that's it.

[00:28:30] Right.

[00:28:31] Oh yeah.

[00:28:31] Of course.

[00:28:31] This is where Tori Amos came in.

[00:28:33] Yes.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:34] That was sad.

[00:28:38] You started listening to a bunch of, you started listening to a bunch of Morrissey.

[00:28:42] We get it.

[00:28:43] Totally understand.

[00:28:43] Yeah.

[00:28:44] Borderline suicidal.

[00:28:45] Got it.

[00:28:45] Yeah.

[00:28:46] Yeah.

[00:28:46] Yeah.

[00:28:47] What did you do after?

[00:28:48] So after, after you found out that there was a period of mourning?

[00:28:52] Actually, changed direction mildly for a while.

[00:28:57] I actually went to work a family business, which is the same, guys now, but, um, and, uh,

[00:29:05] kind of wanted to make our stuff.

[00:29:07] That's very different working with families, but if I used some organization at the time.

[00:29:12] And so after that, I then went to Unilever.

[00:29:17] Now, I was at Unilever 15 years, so we're talking a normal state.

[00:29:20] That's unusual, I know.

[00:29:23] Different positions, though?

[00:29:24] I mean, obviously, you moved around into recession.

[00:29:26] Of course, of course.

[00:29:27] I was very lucky.

[00:29:28] I had a very nice career there doing lots of different things.

[00:29:32] I remember getting a phone call from the agency, and it's like making a work.

[00:29:41] It makes sense.

[00:29:42] I kind of started tracing that.

[00:29:45] And then I remember getting to my couple of students.

[00:29:48] Oh, they make that.

[00:29:50] And that.

[00:29:52] So I finally need the brand.

[00:29:53] And yes, I was at 15 years doing various, various different jobs.

[00:29:59] And then heavyest retirement now.

[00:30:02] Did you ever do college recruiting?

[00:30:05] Or university recruiting?

[00:30:07] I did.

[00:30:07] No, I didn't.

[00:30:08] I was pretty much mid-careers for most of it.

[00:30:11] But did lots of different types of functions.

[00:30:15] So kind of various different levels.

[00:30:18] I mean, we're talking the days of...

[00:30:20] I was talking about this the other day.

[00:30:22] If you know you challenge Ella Kerish, I was a team being presented in the UK.

[00:30:25] Like, it's just back from the days when you ran around, flying across the country with a dip board and stopped watching doing assessments and stuff.

[00:30:33] It was a very different role to what recruiters are doing now.

[00:30:37] That sounds efficient.

[00:30:39] To recruiters nowadays.

[00:30:41] But it was.

[00:30:41] It was a very, very different world.

[00:30:42] You know, you had a massive brand that people wanted to work for.

[00:30:46] You had a list of agencies that you could pick up the phone to.

[00:30:50] Because of what recruiters do now, and certainly the team that I used to lead, I just think they do a phenomenal job.

[00:30:58] Because the different hats that they have to wear is incredible.

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[00:31:35] You know, at the start of every training session I do, and I've got the beyond sharing with me, so I've had it on.

[00:31:43] We're talking about this lifecycle of talent acquisition, right?

[00:31:47] Well, we don't often talk about the roles that we take against each of those things.

[00:31:52] And we're quite unapologetic about talking about that as a hiring manager or a producer themselves.

[00:31:57] Because, actually, it's really fair.

[00:31:59] There's these super cool roles.

[00:32:00] You know, you're a brand ambassador.

[00:32:01] You're a talent scout.

[00:32:02] You're a marketer.

[00:32:04] You're a salesperson.

[00:32:06] You're an experience maker.

[00:32:07] All of these kind of different roles that you play.

[00:32:11] But we just talk about the recruiter as if it's back off his jaw.

[00:32:16] We all know it's not.

[00:32:17] Yeah, so we talked about intention throughout your career when you mentioned it a couple of times.

[00:32:25] So, Rachel, my question is, how did you – so you were with – we used Unilever.

[00:32:31] You're there 15 years.

[00:32:33] Did you have a very specific plan for yourself, right?

[00:32:38] So I'm thinking – let me kind of backtrack here.

[00:32:41] I'm thinking of the person who gets into a large organization and is afraid they're going to fall into the 2024 way of work.

[00:32:53] I'm only going to be here for 12 months, and then I'm out, or 18 months, and then I'm out.

[00:32:58] How does somebody build a career within a company intentionally and do those moves within a company to continue to grow?

[00:33:08] How did you do that?

[00:33:09] I think there's a big difference.

[00:33:11] So people always – I've got – as you say, you've been somewhere 15 years.

[00:33:14] Oh, yeah.

[00:33:15] I get it.

[00:33:15] I get it.

[00:33:16] I get it.

[00:33:17] I get it.

[00:33:19] But I think if you can do a variety of different roles, that shouldn't matter.

[00:33:24] But that's the parts.

[00:33:25] It can't be to stay doing what you're doing forever.

[00:33:29] So for me, I think there's a couple of things.

[00:33:32] One is – I probably made myself various other people, and I was nosy enough to go and get to know the vehicle.

[00:33:42] I was very lucky because there were global teams, there were regional teams, there were local teams.

[00:33:47] There was a lot of opportunity.

[00:33:48] I'm not going to tell you there was a lot of opportunity in an organization like that.

[00:33:51] Right.

[00:33:52] So I think it was then also looking at certain – I have people in mind where I would look at them and think, how do I do what you're doing?

[00:34:00] How did you get to do what you're doing?

[00:34:03] And so there were a couple of people who I asked to be momentical, for example.

[00:34:09] Sometimes probably with them, they're really – but actually, I ended up doing those kind of roles because I learned so much from them.

[00:34:17] And some of those things were really small but powerful things that I still also hang on to now, some of the more technical things.

[00:34:23] But actually kind of identified, oh, that job just looks so cool.

[00:34:28] How do I become that?

[00:34:30] How do I become you?

[00:34:32] I'm kind of just going and learning from that person.

[00:34:35] I have some really super cool managers and leaders.

[00:34:39] There was a couple in particular that stand out.

[00:34:42] And I think a couple of them saw potential in me that I probably didn't, maybe.

[00:34:49] So I have some whole conversations with people as well around me like, you need to do X, Y, Z.

[00:34:56] I'm done walking about because we'll put investment in you, but you need to see that from potentially the South.

[00:35:02] I had a couple of whole conversations like that.

[00:35:04] But I'm glad I had them because they were right.

[00:35:07] They gave me a couple of the real rents for me that I needed.

[00:35:12] So, yeah.

[00:35:13] And I think it was just about kind of figuring out, you know, like anybody, where do you want to get to?

[00:35:19] What's the point where you're going to get to?

[00:35:21] And so, okay, I'm happy with that.

[00:35:23] I didn't avoid any big, shiny, huge thing necessarily.

[00:35:26] I wanted to do work that I really loved.

[00:35:30] Well, who doesn't?

[00:35:31] No.

[00:35:32] Well, there's a bunch of people.

[00:35:34] So thank goodness for it.

[00:35:38] So hardest role at Unilever that you got yourself into?

[00:35:45] And second to that is the hardest role to fill at Unilever that you had?

[00:35:52] Gosh, you're asking me to cast in our memory back, aren't you?

[00:35:55] I know.

[00:35:56] I think global roles by nature can be amazing and difficult because you have to really think about, to give an exit to Israel, which I would say, you have a real responsibility to think about what is the market that you're used to operating in.

[00:36:12] Right.

[00:36:13] And all of them.

[00:36:15] And that was a really, again, tough lesson to learn because I'd always worked in local roles.

[00:36:21] And I'd probably been quite moved about what it was like to work in a diet war role.

[00:36:26] It was my favourite role.

[00:36:29] But it was also the toughest transition, I would say, to some degree because I've learned so much.

[00:36:37] So that's probably toughest.

[00:36:39] Toughest role.

[00:36:40] Oh, my goodness, Ney.

[00:36:42] I've recruited a few.

[00:36:45] Probably something like sensory technicians.

[00:36:49] Exactly.

[00:36:50] Exactly.

[00:36:51] Oh, my gosh.

[00:36:52] Sensory technicians.

[00:36:53] Are these people that touch and feel and hear and all that stuff?

[00:36:58] Exactly.

[00:36:59] So you might have people that can test deodorant efficiency.

[00:37:03] So I just want to list these.

[00:37:04] I don't know what that looks like now.

[00:37:06] Right.

[00:37:07] I will see you with these.

[00:37:08] So, yeah.

[00:37:10] Oh, my gosh.

[00:37:10] I used to work with a company that was by the Philadelphia airport called Otten's Flavors.

[00:37:16] And they developed flavors for foods.

[00:37:20] Artificial, artificial flavoring.

[00:37:22] And they gave us a tour of the facility.

[00:37:26] They're super clean, right?

[00:37:28] Like sterile spaces, lab coats, the whole bit.

[00:37:32] And they'd give you things to taste.

[00:37:35] And like, well, what do you taste?

[00:37:36] Sugar?

[00:37:37] Like that was the extent of my ability, right?

[00:37:40] Sugar.

[00:37:40] Kind of feels like I'm smelling some root beer and sugar.

[00:37:44] I don't know.

[00:37:44] Yeah.

[00:37:45] You're not good for this job.

[00:37:46] I'm not good for this job.

[00:37:47] No.

[00:37:47] And they break it down to the chemical.

[00:37:50] Yeah, yeah.

[00:37:50] And like they're able to say, okay, well, if we do this, if we add a little bit here, this is what's going to trigger in the person's head.

[00:37:57] Amazing.

[00:37:58] And this is what's going to make them want more.

[00:38:00] There's all science behind it.

[00:38:01] Yeah.

[00:38:01] Or less of this and more.

[00:38:03] It's like, wow, this is crazy.

[00:38:04] And we just went and recruited these people.

[00:38:06] But it fascinated me.

[00:38:08] But I couldn't.

[00:38:09] I could never do that job.

[00:38:11] Sensory technicians.

[00:38:12] Sensory technicians.

[00:38:13] And actually, you know, even back in the luckier days now, I worked fairly closely with research and development.

[00:38:20] I've ever told you a long time ago.

[00:38:23] Did I understand it all of the time?

[00:38:25] No.

[00:38:25] Was I absolutely fascinated by it?

[00:38:28] And did that keep me wanting to do it?

[00:38:30] Absolutely.

[00:38:31] It felt good to be in the room.

[00:38:33] Super interesting people.

[00:38:35] Super interesting people.

[00:38:37] So not as fun.

[00:38:38] Of being, you hit on it at the beginning.

[00:38:43] Being a practitioner for so many years and then jumping over to being probably more of a consultant and an advisor.

[00:38:52] Which is fascinating because you could see other people's problems, you know, really, really easily.

[00:38:59] Like you walk in and go, yeah, that's wrong.

[00:39:01] And they're like, really?

[00:39:03] Yep.

[00:39:03] Yep, that's wrong.

[00:39:04] The hell are you thinking?

[00:39:05] They've been walking by it for months on end.

[00:39:08] Like, I don't know what's going on.

[00:39:10] Yep, it's right there.

[00:39:11] So I think it's easier to see other people's problems and also kind of give them ways to fix it because you don't have to fix it.

[00:39:19] But, you know, as a practitioner, someone can come along and say, yeah, your ATS is horribly configured and you don't really use it, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:39:28] And when you're in that, it's almost personal.

[00:39:32] But when a consultant says it, it frees you up to go, well, you know what?

[00:39:37] We need to really think about that.

[00:39:39] Yeah, the configuration is off.

[00:39:40] We're not really using it.

[00:39:41] We're not getting the maximum value out of the technology.

[00:39:44] So do you miss anything about being a practitioner?

[00:39:48] Of course.

[00:39:49] I can't just go back to one thing you said.

[00:39:52] I think some people do know their own problems.

[00:39:54] I think, you know, there's a lot of TN people who are really open up and going, you know what?

[00:40:00] I just need some help fixing this.

[00:40:02] I just want to validate that this is the problem because they're busy, busy, busy people, like you are grappling with so many.

[00:40:10] Yeah, that is the priorities at the moment.

[00:40:12] I mean, we have to our enemies that it's massive.

[00:40:14] You know, these are not small things when you're talking about Canada experience, EB, EVP, data analytics, AI.

[00:40:21] I mean, TN, the list goes on and off.

[00:40:23] And that's the day job of just functioning recruitment.

[00:40:28] So I do think for a lot of people, it's getting the reassurance that probably they think they've got is the problem that they've got.

[00:40:35] And just, you know, we're there to kind of help navigate that.

[00:40:39] That's the best thing I'd say.

[00:40:41] Do I miss stuff about being a practitioner?

[00:40:44] Of course.

[00:40:44] I think you can do something about lull and more.

[00:40:48] Not miss parts of that.

[00:40:50] I think if you can't miss something that you love, then I'm customary you've worked in the first place.

[00:40:55] I miss a clipboard and miss running around like that.

[00:40:58] You know, I couldn't do it now, but, you know, it was good times.

[00:41:04] At the time, you know, I worked in a very large office.

[00:41:07] I think that was for the moment in my life that I was at.

[00:41:10] That was a really enjoyable thing.

[00:41:11] I had some super cool people that I worked in and learned from a lot of travel, which was also great.

[00:41:16] So it's a different time of your life as well, though, isn't it?

[00:41:19] So would I want to be doing that again in that same way now, necessarily?

[00:41:23] Probably not.

[00:41:24] But was it great at the time?

[00:41:26] Absolutely.

[00:41:27] Of course it was.

[00:41:27] It was fantastic.

[00:41:29] So I think, you know, if you can take something from every job that you do and take it into the next one that you do,

[00:41:36] some of that would be great stuff.

[00:41:37] Some of that would be, oh, yeah, I won't be doing it like that again because I'm really got that long.

[00:41:42] But, well, hey, you can kind of reflect back and say, what are the things that I want to keep doing or record or try more of?

[00:41:51] What are the new things I'm going to try because I've got the opportunity to do it this new job?

[00:41:56] And then what are the things that I'm going to be like?

[00:41:58] Yeah, let's just leave that back.

[00:42:01] Yeah.

[00:42:04] All right.

[00:42:04] Two things for me and be my final question, I promise.

[00:42:08] Just so you both can probably answer this.

[00:42:13] Do you ever – so I used to stock shelves.

[00:42:15] This is my first job, stocking shelves and pushing carts, right?

[00:42:18] Have you ever – do you ever go back into a grocery store or a retail store or something and you see somebody stocking?

[00:42:25] You're like, no, let me show you how to do this better.

[00:42:30] And, like, I kind of want to do it and I still fix things sometimes, number one.

[00:42:36] Twist it around.

[00:42:38] Yeah.

[00:42:38] It's kind of like face it the proper way.

[00:42:40] Yeah.

[00:42:40] So – but my question is, which I know you guys have thoughts on that one.

[00:42:44] But my question – my final question for you, Rachel, is what has been the biggest shift in motivation for you from when you started, your first job out of college, et cetera, to now?

[00:42:56] What motivated you then versus –

[00:42:58] Well, good question.

[00:42:59] While you're pondering –

[00:43:01] Guy's friend.

[00:43:02] I still know the department codes at both Albertsons and Walmart.

[00:43:07] So I can walk through a Walmart and tell you the department codes of every department at a Walmart.

[00:43:12] That is skill.

[00:43:14] So not only do – I mean, as a long time ago –

[00:43:16] He is the doobie hauser of retail.

[00:43:18] Not only can I tell you the department codes, I can tell you the markup on certain products.

[00:43:24] Yes.

[00:43:25] So, yeah.

[00:43:26] I mean, people stocking – I ran a night crew for almost two years.

[00:43:32] So I went in at, let's say, 10 and got off at 8.

[00:43:36] And I ran – we had like seven or eight trucks a night.

[00:43:40] So it's different when you run it at night because there's no customers.

[00:43:46] There's nobody there that's sort of shut down.

[00:43:48] And so you can – trash is everywhere.

[00:43:50] Where, you know, you could do – when you're stocking during the day, you've got to actually care.

[00:43:55] You've got to care.

[00:43:56] You've got to care about people and safety and all that other stuff.

[00:43:59] I was never allowed to work overnight.

[00:44:01] So, oh, man, it was fantastic.

[00:44:03] So I had to work during the day and actually do it respectfully and, you know.

[00:44:07] Thank you, man.

[00:44:08] Excuse me.

[00:44:09] Box cutters and meth.

[00:44:11] That's so nice.

[00:44:12] Thank you, man.

[00:44:15] Two things that should not go together, box cutters and meth.

[00:44:19] Motivation, Rachel.

[00:44:20] What motivated you then to now?

[00:44:22] Is it very bad for meth?

[00:44:23] Look, you know, we're talking on the Russian.

[00:44:25] I think I was really keen on being as senior as possible, as quickly as possible and having a nice lifestyle, right?

[00:44:33] I don't think many people would, you know, argue that how you're in your 20s.

[00:44:40] Slacking now.

[00:44:41] Not in my 20s, falling a bit there.

[00:44:46] Genuinely, so we did some work recently on Ikigai.

[00:44:50] Ruben Falevif, if you know about the global purpose.

[00:44:55] And when I mapped it out, I was like, I'm actually doing something I love.

[00:45:00] And I get that that is just, like, the most stock answer that everyone is expected to give.

[00:45:06] But genuinely, for me, go back to the pop song, really.

[00:45:10] If you can say something, if you can make every interaction, something a little bit positive for somebody.

[00:45:16] If you can create light bulb to somebody.

[00:45:18] I don't go in and say I know it all.

[00:45:20] Like, that's not my job.

[00:45:21] My job is not to go in and say I know it all.

[00:45:23] That's not how you do it.

[00:45:24] You can do it like this.

[00:45:25] My job is to give people the opportunity to talk about some different ideas, maybe.

[00:45:29] And for them to do the same with me.

[00:45:31] And I might learn straight away.

[00:45:32] I might learn something.

[00:45:33] So I think it's more about facilitating different ways of doing it and going in and saying that's the correct way to do it.

[00:45:42] Like, Clown Sophie.

[00:45:42] How about plus?

[00:45:43] That's a ridiculous turn.

[00:45:44] Everyone does.

[00:45:45] Set them on me.

[00:45:46] So, you know, I think it's about, yeah, motivation now.

[00:45:51] Come away knowing that you've understood the problem that someone's trying to solve and you've held themselves there.

[00:45:56] And that's probably it, you know, the way I'm enabled it.

[00:46:02] Jobs Mike walks off stage.

[00:46:04] Rachel.

[00:46:05] Thank you.

[00:46:06] Thank you so much.

[00:46:07] This has been fantastic.

[00:46:08] You've had a wonderful career.

[00:46:10] And thanks for sharing your journey with us.