[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This is William Tencup and Ryan Leary.
[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You are listening and hopefully watching the Practitioner Podcast.
[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_02]: We have a wonderful guest on today.
[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Before we ask that, Ryan, how are you doing today?
[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful.
[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I can go in the more detail.
[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to check in with you.
[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to check in with you every once in a while.
[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Just say how you're doing.
[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what? I'm on my third cup of coffee today.
[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a difference for me.
[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you get this.
[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_03]: If I have four, five, six cups of water versus three cups of coffee.
[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, 100%.
[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's the opposite.
[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel fresh.
[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I'm ready for bed.
[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you're talking to a Canadian.
[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's Tim Hortons is a thing.
[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a legit thing.
[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially in Toronto.
[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's a sticky topic.
[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure I'm going to jump in.
[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: This is no Dutch Brothers Starbucks.
[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to get an idea of that stuff.
[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't own McDonald's.
[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just a coffee shop.
[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a thing.
[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But just because of all the time I've spent in Ottawa and Toronto,
[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Tim Hortons is legit.
[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a thing.
[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was uneducated and got educated.
[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm totally uneducated because I thought you were talking about a food place.
[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That's how bad.
[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It's better than Starbucks.
[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So imagine Starbucks.
[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Is the Canadian Dunkin' Donut?
[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, all right.
[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_03]: There we go.
[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I am very simple when it comes to coffee.
[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're not doing order enough.
[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even do...
[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_03]: This is how bad it is, Gabrielle.
[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_03]: My wife makes coffee in the morning.
[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a single serving, right?
[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: She does her cup and then I just hit it again
[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and it goes through and that's my cup of coffee.
[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know if you can consider that coffee.
[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: That's coffee flavored water.
[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not even coffee.
[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Based on her face, I'm going to say...
[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabrielle's about to school us.
[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabrielle, what would you do?
[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you something.
[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_03]: We talk French up here.
[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Do us a favor and introduce yourself.
[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us a little bit about you.
[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll sip my coffee.
[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So in French, that's café.
[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll start with that.
[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: There we go.
[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Gabrielle.
[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Gabrielle in French.
[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: That was my French, I promised.
[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I am the VP of talent, DAB and people insights
[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: at OnePassword based in Montreal,
[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: a native French speaker.
[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I will maybe drop a bit of French here and there
[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: just to keep it natural or stay true to myself.
[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be cool if that.
[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So give me the title again real quick.
[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: VP of...
[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a long title.
[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the talent acquisition team.
[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I oversee the talent acquisition team.
[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: DAB, so diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging.
[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I also actually lead our employer brand
[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and internal comms team.
[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And then people insights.
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So basically people analytics.
[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So first of all, how did all four of those things come together?
[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking like,
[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: do you run the cafeteria as well?
[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_03]: We're doing that.
[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're calling the mode.
[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I would if we were in person.
[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Fair enough.
[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Like employer brand and recruiting, that's logical.
[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I get that.
[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I could see DI, I could see that as well.
[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people on talent acquisition also
[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_02]: cross-functionally either own that or have a hand in it.
[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But people analytics typically is like a different...
[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: That's all the way.
[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That's someone else.
[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It is.
[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's, first of all, congratulations.
[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it is a lot of responsibility.
[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And you got your hands.
[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You probably never have the same day twice.
[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Nope.
[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I love, frankly.
[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So how did you get to that specific space
[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: of having those four different responsibilities?
[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So I joined One Password like two years and a half ago.
[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And how I joined One Password was that a former colleague of mine
[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: put me in touch with someone that he had worked with in the past,
[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: our chief people officer, Katia Levile.
[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And she was just about to join One Password.
[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And we started having some conversations
[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and seeing what we could explore.
[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't really know what I wanted to do next.
[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Frankly, when you're about to look for your next gig,
[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: people often ask, oh, what do you want to do?
[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want?
[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I want to contribute.
[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to thrive.
[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be part of something.
[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to believe in the mission, the value,
[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of what could sound like soft stuff to folks,
[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but what was for me true meaning.
[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to be stimulated.
[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I came from the world of consulting.
[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We can talk about that later.
[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do love numbers.
[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I came from a world that was very fact data driven.
[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And One Password actually didn't have that function.
[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And so there was also a lot of like building and setting up.
[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And so she was trying to create something that would be meaningful,
[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe something she was passionate about.
[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: She strongly believes in like people analytics.
[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And so she put it together.
[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, it was a bit of a thought process obviously,
[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: but I was sold.
[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's lived up to exactly what I would hope.
[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're pretty proud of what we've done.
[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a lot of fun, honestly.
[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. So, and I know it's going to be hard to do this.
[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So paint it broadly.
[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you do?
[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So you have all these titles, right?
[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know there's very specific roles in each of these.
[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm assuming you don't say Monday on the,
[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah, we're saying like Monday, I'm in talent Tuesday,
[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: diversity.
[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I know you're not doing that, but what is, what is your...
[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you keep track of it all?
[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Like what are you doing?
[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you manage all of that?
[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Well, the first thing I'll say, which might be cheesy,
[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but I'm incredibly well surrounded.
[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So I have a phenomenal team and phenomenal leaders
[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that lead each of those pillars.
[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first, I think key to success.
[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And so what I do, a lot of what I do is sponsor and mentor
[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: those folks.
[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So I spend a lot of time making sure that they have
[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: the support, that they have the room.
[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So we connect.
[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: What is consistent in my week is almost an hour with
[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: each one of them at a minimum an hour with each one of them
[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to just chat through what's going on.
[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What are the roadblocks?
[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the vision, you know, tactically or up there high in
[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: the sky?
[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's, I guess I'm like the chef deorchestre.
[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have, there you go.
[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Another French word for you, the orchestra.
[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So, so that's a lot of what I do.
[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I also help set the vision.
[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So by spending time with each of them getting to know
[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: what they're passionate about, what they're seeing in throughout
[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_00]: the company based on what I'm hearing throughout the company
[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: because I'll join a lot of other meetings with other functions
[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: with other operational leaders and try to understand what is
[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: top of mind right now at what password.
[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: What are we going through?
[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And how can my functions really support that, enable that
[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: help help the rest of the company thrive while being
[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: true to those mandates, let's say, and those priorities.
[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So I help put all that together and make sure that it stays
[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: top of mind.
[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that we're not going like this or that we're not kind of
[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: operating blindly, but really making staying focused and
[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: anchored in all that and then solve like all the thousands
[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of random problems that come up.
[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can imagine D.I.B. with everything going on in the
[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: world.
[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: There's constantly new things thrown our way.
[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Same with people analytics, you know, there's troubleshooting.
[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: There's brand new things, new ways of looking at the data
[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and new data sources we might want to integrate.
[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's always new things that pop up.
[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: There's AI right now on the hiring front.
[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So staying on top of all of those things and make sure that
[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: we promise all that together as a team and that we try to
[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: stay at the forefront.
[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Last question about your current company is, is there a
[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: through line that goes across a thread that goes across
[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_02]: all four of the responsibilities?
[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Me?
[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Me?
[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I am.
[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: There is because they all interact at one point or another.
[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So we bring people analytics to employer brand.
[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring people analytics to hiring.
[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring people analytics to D.I.B.
[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring D.I.B. to hiring.
[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring D.I.B. to employer brand.
[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring D.I.B. to analytics.
[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So analytics serves D.I.B.
[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But D.I.B. serves how we frame up.
[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So they do all really interact and they really interact
[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: with my peers as well right in the compensation
[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and benefits world and our HRBPs and learning and development.
[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So even across the HR function, but within all of my
[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: worlds I very often bring them all together.
[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And then what I love to do is we just stop and ask
[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: ourselves okay what's top, what's happening at the company
[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: right now?
[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: What's happening in the market and how do we help each other out?
[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: What's top of mind for each of you and how do we get
[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: all that knowledge together?
[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we get those priorities together and problem-solving
[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: in a more holistic way versus being like tell me about
[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: talent today, tell me about, you know I think that's...
[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like it's also on a foundation of data.
[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: All of the things that you do because of where your background
[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and things like that, that everything is data driven.
[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Like again you're not a, this isn't an HR function
[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: of 30 years ago where people really had to do things
[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: on instinct and because they either they didn't have
[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: the data or they did have the data to know what to do with it.
[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Very much so.
[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's data but it's also people.
[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also like who are these humans?
[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We're supporting these humans at this great company
[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and we want them to be in a place to thrive.
[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: We want them to be in a place where they're really
[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: set up for success and they help one password be successful.
[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: They help us serve our clients and so it also brings
[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: the human element actually and so that's what I like
[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: actually is being able to bring those two friends
[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: because in isolation to me they feel quite incomplete
[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: whereas bringing them both together then I am like,
[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I thrive like then I'm like, you can ask my team.
[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They know it's like the gap that we have.
[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: We use a lot of emojis and like I have the monkey.
[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: There's another monkey that goes like this all the time
[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's when we're talking about that stuff.
[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like...
[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So you want to go backwards a little bit?
[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: 100%
[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And let's start learning about the journey.
[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So the idea here Gabrielle is that
[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_03]: we want to understand your journey.
[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_03]: How did you get to where you are today?
[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: You just don't start and get to where you're at.
[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's understand that a little bit.
[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Go back towards University College
[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and what did you want to be?
[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You come out and say...
[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: What was the dream?
[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say ballerina.
[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.
[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I did do ballet.
[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I would still say V-P-H-R.
[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_00]: No, but I didn't want to be a ballerina.
[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's a tough job.
[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a tough job.
[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: That's cool.
[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: One of my daughters, Gabrielle, watches...
[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: She's watching Dance Mom.
[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_03]: All the reboots of Dance Mom.
[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And in between there's a lot of ballerina or ballet
[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and stuff like that.
[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_03]: My God!
[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_03]: The feet on these kids...
[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: They're young.
[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: They're 12, 13, 10.
[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah?
[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And their feet are just wrecked.
[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, insane.
[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I dated a ballerina at one point in my life
[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and the rigor in which their athletes...
[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's no different than any other type of athletes.
[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But the rigor...
[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You're falling down on wood.
[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we don't talk about that.
[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_02]: They're not in pads either.
[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But it looks critical.
[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It does.
[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It does, but those bruises are legit.
[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_03]: What was the dream?
[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_02]: What was the dream?
[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't have one specific dream, frankly.
[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember when I was looking at the university programs,
[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, maybe I could be an architect.
[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I could be a lawyer.
[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I can be...
[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I had this thing of someone that manages stuff.
[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe in the hotel industry.
[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned briefly when we were catching up before I worked for the Olympics.
[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So I liked...
[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: That was an industry that interested me.
[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was exploring a lot of things.
[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: My dad actually...
[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I ended up getting the same degree as my dad,
[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: but my dad studied in business.
[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I knew I liked to manage a lot of things,
[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: organize a lot of things.
[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I was able to multitask a lot.
[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But as for everybody,
[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: rarely do you dream of being in business.
[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And in parallel through university and even before that,
[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I had always worked in summer camps.
[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Sleep-A-Wake camps.
[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And when I started working,
[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I had always been a camper,
[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I started working there.
[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And then quickly, I actually started getting promoted just
[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: by being me, just by being super organized,
[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: by helping lead others,
[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: by being very thoughtful about...
[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I was 16 and I was managing 120 kids, 20 counselors.
[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Most of them older than myself.
[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So it worked.
[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I was good at it.
[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I continued doing it, and I enjoyed it.
[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed it.
[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It was very stimulating and motivating
[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and rewarding, frankly.
[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's when I was like,
[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: well, maybe I can study that
[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and do something like that somewhere somehow.
[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But again, where I am today,
[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: or how I land at OnePassword, was true then.
[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, I just want to enjoy what I'm doing, frankly.
[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I figured I'll go study business,
[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and if I need to reorient myself
[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: towards a very specific topic or whatnot,
[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I could always do that.
[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But in Quebec, the specifics is that
[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: we go to university right out of college.
[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So we start university at like 17 or 18,
[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and then by 20 you're done in the workplace for good.
[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's quite young and it goes pretty fast.
[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Sounds so daunting.
[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, same here, right?
[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess I was 22-ish.
[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I was a little bit older because I skipped.
[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I took years off between high school and college.
[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So the stay away camps,
[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_02]: were they week long or month long?
[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think kids would join us for two weeks.
[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So they would arrive on a Sunday,
[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: stay with us for two weeks.
[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They were campers from...
[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So the first year I was in charge of like the age groups,
[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: we had campers from Mexico, Korea.
[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: They were kids from all over,
[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'll always remember one of the stays,
[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: we called them like two week stays,
[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: one of them we got a gastrointestinal
[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: epidemic of some type.
[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was managing kids in ISIL
[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and you don't call parents, like you'd figure it out.
[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was managing kids and counselors in isolation,
[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: taking them out, cleaning stuff,
[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: kids healthy, rotations of staff and rotations of...
[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a parent now.
[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I look back and I'm like, what?
[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well...
[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You were a camper before.
[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So as a child you went to camps.
[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I love that by the way.
[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I love summer camps for kids.
[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I just think it's a great way to learn.
[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: What was it?
[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it kind of the traditional kind of old school archery,
[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_02]: horseback riding, you know that type of stuff?
[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a camp that was like based on the Olympics values.
[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot of biking,
[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: we had circus, we had gymnastics, canoeing.
[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But as I grew up I did these like leadership programs.
[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I did a leadership program where they even threw us
[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in the wood and did this like three-day survival.
[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You had your little sandwich bag and you had a sandwich.
[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had two slices of bread, a cheese, an apple, crackers,
[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_00]: little bag of nuts.
[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was it for two nights in three days.
[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And you had to like figure out your food
[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and we were allowed to bring three things.
[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But we had a book to journal and to write stuff.
[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So I always...
[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think...
[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I think when you're young you don't know what leadership is
[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think I felt like I had something of that in me
[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was always drawn towards these opportunities where...
[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you put me in a group of folks I won't be the person
[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that's like, I've got y'all.
[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is what I'm going to be the one that takes a lead
[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: but if everyone turns to me I will step up and I will...
[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think I was lucky enough to be put
[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: in these circumstances where I was able to do that,
[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: where people did turn to me or...
[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot opportunistic as well, right?
[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Because frankly when I got the first management role
[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: there was a leader in place.
[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: He was overseeing me and he unfortunately burnt out
[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and left after a week, didn't come back
[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and so they said you're up.
[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: After a week?
[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well I'll sleep.
[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess maybe it wasn't his thing.
[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Sleep away from them.
[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it can happen.
[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean...
[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially dealing with kids
[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and kids are chaotic and especially...
[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all these parents turn to you
[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're like, you're a lot of people's parents,
[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: you're managing staff, you're managing...
[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It's 24-7...
[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And again it's chaos, right?
[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Kids are...
[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: There's always something going on.
[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially if it's the first time they've been away from home.
[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Then you've got to navigate that.
[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a navigation itself.
[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So what did you do next?
[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did that.
[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I would spend my summers doing that.
[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I went to university
[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I figured I had to get a grown-up job
[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_00]: so I started doing internships
[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: which frankly I didn't love too much
[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_00]: sitting in an office versus spending my summers out in summer.
[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I was a bit of...
[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of questioning myself
[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: like am I doing the right thing or whatnot
[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_00]: then I realized that by the time I was graduating
[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: there was going to be the Olympics in Canada.
[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Canadian, it's probably easy for me to get a job there
[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: so I moved out west to Whistler
[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and worked for the Olympics, the 2010 Olympics
[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: which was absolutely amazing
[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and allowed me to explore a little bit of the hotel industry stuff.
[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like do I?
[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Because basically I was helping manage...
[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We were doing property management
[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: that were hosting all of the RCMPs
[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: so the Canadian police and the media.
[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was in the middle of the action
[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: but also in the hotel industry
[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and managing a lot of things there.
[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So did that for a year, loved it,
[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: skied a hundred days.
[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But then again, at the end of that
[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I think I got to get a grown-up job.
[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's stay here for just a moment.
[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people that listen to this show
[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_03]: they're practitioners, right?
[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: They're just like us
[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and they're going through that journey
[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_03]: so they can be in any stage of this
[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: but my suspicion is that
[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of them have children
[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and they're in that...
[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: their children are in that situation now
[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: that you're describing.
[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So we don't need to go crazy detailed
[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_03]: so we do want to get to your full journey here.
[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But what was the thought process
[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: going from camp traveling?
[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: How far was Whistler from you?
[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's across the country.
[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: All the way across the country
[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_03]: taking...that's a leap, right?
[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not easy at that age.
[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_03]: What's the thought process there
[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and how should a parent maybe process?
[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It's okay for my child to go do this crazy thing
[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and not have a plan.
[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well my parents were very involved
[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in that process actually.
[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_00]: My parents, always when I would get these...
[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: My parents would have said, hell no.
[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that's it.
[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_03]: They would not have let me go on more than three blocks.
[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what? I thought they would say no.
[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember I floated it.
[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I had gone skiing with my dad
[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're sitting in the ski lift
[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was like, hey dad
[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to graduate around the Olympics.
[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So...and I was like, this isn't going to fly.
[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: He actually liked it.
[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, that's really interesting.
[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And my parents had always said,
[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: complete your education, complete your education.
[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: If you stop, you won't want to go back.
[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I had principles like that in mind.
[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: They're always like their strong workers.
[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They have a lot of strong work ethics.
[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But they also, every time I had decisions like that
[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: got me to do was the pro and con list.
[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: What are the advantages?
[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: What are the inconvenience?
[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the downside?
[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the upside?
[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're also very consistent people.
[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So they had always said complete your education.
[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was completing my education,
[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: completing my degree.
[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It also actually meant accelerating a few classes
[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to be on time and I was committing to that.
[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think they...
[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I did the pros and cons.
[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: They weren't that many cons.
[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I told them I was getting a job.
[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I told them they told me if things go south,
[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you can come back.
[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You can come back and...
[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And they saw commitments, I think,
[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: because I was accelerating some classes.
[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a vision.
[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a strong case.
[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm a passionate skier.
[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's still in Canada.
[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Once in a lifetime, the Olympics, right?
[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: How often can you work with the Olympics being exposed to that?
[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I had studied management
[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and everybody knows event management, like things like that.
[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It was hard to assume I wouldn't be exposed at all.
[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I could have been.
[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That could have been the case,
[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but I guess they just believed in me
[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and the track record I'd had so far.
[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So they just...
[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they made sure that my thought process
[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: was a strong one
[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and one that made sense.
[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think sometimes it's not just for them to be reassured,
[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think the more I was convinced,
[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: the more I was having that thought process,
[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the more they were hearing confidence.
[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they assumed, well, how wrong can it go?
[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So do you do that with employees?
[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you use some of the same tactics
[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that your parents used with you?
[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you do that with your...
[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_00]: My parents...
[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The tactics I use with my teams
[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and that I encourage my leaders to use with their teams
[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: is one that my parents have used with me
[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and actually one that a former boss of mine used with me,
[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: which is the ask questions.
[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: We often want to give our opinion.
[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We often want to tell people yes or no
[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and tell them what to do.
[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But thinking about what you would like to tell them to do
[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and then reframing that as a question
[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is just so powerful.
[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And same with our kids, right?
[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: What are you trying to achieve?
[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: What's your biggest goal out of this?
[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_00]: What could go wrong?
[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_00]: What could...
[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Because then people come...
[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's so amazing to see
[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_00]: because you see people just talk through it
[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and often first off,
[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00]: they don't have this like amygdala hijack
[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: of like defensiveness or what not.
[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're asking questions
[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's also a way to ask questions obviously
[00:23:00] but...
[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And you see them like start realizing it
[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and I used to do that use this a lot at my...
[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_00]: When I was at McKinsey,
[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the roles I played was professional development
[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: so I was coaching a lot of our consultants
[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: through their career
[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and using that approach with them
[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: to let them come to the aha moments
[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and let them be in the driver's seat
[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_00]: of their career was just so powerful
[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and so I use that for parenting.
[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a real skill though.
[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not something everybody can do
[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_03]: to take your opinion and formulate a question
[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and not give your opinion during the question.
[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone can learn it though.
[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, agree.
[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But it is very much...
[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it takes a ton of letting go of your ego.
[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like not putting the potato chip in your mouth.
[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_03]: It's really difficult to do it.
[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: At the beginning,
[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I would prepare the conference
[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: so I would dump all the things I would like to say
[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: so I would have the conversation with myself
[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and get it out of my system
[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you tweak it and you're like,
[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: well this could be asked in that way
[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: or this could be asked in that way
[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and then...
[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean as a parent,
[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't always do that obviously.
[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got my old friend now 12,
[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: teenage years heading into the teenage years.
[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Bless you.
[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what I try to remember
[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and to bring myself back to
[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the team.
[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: After that, we'll get caught in the moment
[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and it doesn't mean we're always doing that
[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: but I do think it's a skill most people can learn.
[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So how did you get from the Olympics to McKinsey?
[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Was there some stops along the way?
[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: There was, yeah.
[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So well there was a huge road trip.
[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: A long road trip,
[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: a month through the U.S.
[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: all the way down to San Diego
[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and back up.
[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was wonderful.
[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And then back to Montreal,
[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I found a role in a headhunting firm.
[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So did that for a year.
[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: A boutique firm.
[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I was surrounded with very strong women leaders
[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: that are some that are still friends today.
[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But I realized that I was...
[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: They believed in me,
[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but I didn't...
[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I had something to learn
[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: before I could advise others on their career.
[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I kept saying to myself,
[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: this is a great end of career gig.
[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You know when you've learned a lot more
[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know more
[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and you can really be a thought partner
[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: for these folks.
[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And then someone that I worked with
[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_00]: in summer camps
[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and that I had been in campers
[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: was a consultant at Macon Z
[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and was like, hey, they're looking for a recruiter.
[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You should apply.
[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I did.
[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the first things
[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: that's just me was like,
[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you're a bit younger than we were hoping.
[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I've gotten that before.
[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But let me prove you wrong.
[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And because like in the summer camps
[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: it was the same thing.
[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I was only 16.
[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't the ideal profile
[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of a leader back then for them.
[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And so probably a lot of confidence
[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and influencing
[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and I got the role
[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and then spent 11 years.
[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: 11 years at Macon Z.
[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And the progression,
[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: so you started in recruiting
[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_02]: but you also did professional development.
[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: What was the,
[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: what are some of the steps?
[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I did a lot of roles actually
[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: at Macon Z.
[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So I started in recruiting
[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and then had some downtime
[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_00]: which I don't do very well with.
[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And so there were a few consultants
[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in the office and partners that believed in me
[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and brought me along on some projects
[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: which is not common normally
[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're in the support staff,
[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you're in the support staff
[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and they brought me to clients
[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and coached me on how to serve clients.
[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They were people related topics
[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: so they're like,
[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: we see you have an instinct.
[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So I used some of the skills that I had
[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: as well as leaning into sponsorship,
[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: leaning into people who believed in me
[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and so started serving some clients.
[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: At that point
[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I debated fully moving
[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: into the consulting track.
[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But I did have a younger,
[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I already had my 12 year old by then
[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and so that wasn't like,
[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that's not what I wanted in my life.
[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: At least 80% travel,
[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes 100% travel.
[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a hard bit.
[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so another sponsor of mine
[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: was like,
[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I have this great role
[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that's actually half consulting.
[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have a client
[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and then also you can help us build
[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_00]: this practice.
[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So thinking about how they serve certain clients,
[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: he's like, it's an institutional investing
[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was like,
[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna do all that
[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm gonna get back to you.
[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But I always believe if people believe in me,
[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna lean in.
[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I completely moved out of people.
[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Was not doing anything people related
[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_00]: for a few years
[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was so hard.
[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: There were tears,
[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of tears,
[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of question marks.
[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But I grew tremendously
[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and honestly I don't think I would be where I am today
[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: if I hadn't taken that gig.
[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_00]: That's when some of the analytics start taking in.
[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00]: That's when I started just,
[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: not just leading by what I knew
[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: because I didn't know anything in that space
[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: but leading by the judgment I could bring,
[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the questions I could ask,
[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the perspective I could build outside in.
[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's quite powerful the day
[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that we start leading,
[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: not just with expertise
[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but with like who we are.
[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that makes sense.
[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It does and it's super timely
[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_03]: because we just had a conversation
[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and we were talking about,
[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how did they label it?
[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: How does he label it with the,
[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_03]: you're doing the rankings.
[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You have to rank so many at like
[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: high performer to five,
[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_03]: low performer to one,
[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: consistent to two or three.
[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And so one of the questions I had asked him was,
[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03]: because often we'll see individual contributors
[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: be fantastic,
[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_03]: stellar what they do.
[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And they become really bad leaders
[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: because they're just not a leader.
[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But then you have the so-so performers
[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_03]: that have amazing ability to lead people.
[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Not saying you're not a great contributor
[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's the confidence that you're talking about.
[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You obviously you were a great contributor.
[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You led in the camp,
[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_03]: you did different things
[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_03]: but then you found this confidence
[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and the ability to ask questions,
[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the ability to probe people
[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and listen and understand.
[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just a timely conversation
[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: that we're having now
[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_03]: because we just spoke about that.
[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I failed.
[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, don't get me wrong.
[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Like some of the, at the beginning,
[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: some of the meetings I would have
[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: or I would leave the meetings in it
[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm pretty sure they asked themselves like,
[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: hmm, she's coming back.
[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Like why?
[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I've had some,
[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: people say some difficult,
[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had like difficult
[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: for you to find her.
[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you say,
[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: like have you,
[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: like you have a brain?
[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Like do you know how to use it?
[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: For context or edification
[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: for the audience,
[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: McKinsey is loaded with smart people.
[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just one of these bits
[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that stupid people don't work at McKinsey.
[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And so you're surrounded
[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_02]: with sharks that are smart.
[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: They're smart.
[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: They're smarter.
[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a culture of high performance.
[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: For years we would say,
[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: it is you are surrounded by insecure overachievers.
[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So everybody was best of their class.
[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody was smart.
[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody, like when I started hiring for them,
[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00]: we were looking at GPAs.
[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We would 4.0 would be like minimum.
[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Minimum mistakes.
[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And your 4.0,
[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you had to have done many other things.
[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the recipe back then.
[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And like again, this was 15 years ago almost now.
[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like different world, different knowledge.
[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time,
[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_00]: when you can ground yourself in that,
[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's not always easy,
[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and there are a ton of up and down,
[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: but you do learn so much.
[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And what I did appreciate at McKinsey
[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: was I was always surrounded by people
[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: who had so much heart,
[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: so much passion for solving these difficult problems,
[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: for helping these organizations
[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and potentially at times too much.
[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And like, you know, they have their story,
[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: but that spoke to me.
[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like you had some great mentors
[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and sponsors around you as well.
[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I did.
[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And to this day, they're all still in my,
[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: they're all still on just a phone call away.
[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So why leave McKinsey?
[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so after that,
[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I went to the people
[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: to professional development,
[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: did that for five or six years.
[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I did a last role
[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: talent management for a year and a bit.
[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But, well after that,
[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I wanted to, the next phase of growing up, right?
[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to see how that played out in industry.
[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to take that and really build a business.
[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to be closer to them to the,
[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: well that said actually, I should say,
[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I did consider going back to staying and consulting.
[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I did for a little wonder
[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: about like people advisory and things like that.
[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was quite tested in those process
[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: because I was very close to offer and they were like,
[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: is this what you want to do?
[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Or you want to be in the weeds?
[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You want to be in the business?
[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And same Katya when she hired me,
[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: she said, do you want to keep advising
[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: or you want to like foot in the game?
[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And there was some...
[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It's different.
[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Very different.
[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I chose like a foot in the game
[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and I started at One Password,
[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: we were 600, we're now close to 1400.
[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: That's my team that helped build all of that.
[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Being part of that journey is phenomenal.
[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And One Password has such a strong mission
[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that speaks to me, right?
[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We keep people safe.
[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We protect people's passwords.
[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: We help older generations.
[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_00]: We help people who suffer with mental health
[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: because they struggle often.
[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: That's when your memory falls short
[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_00]: or that's when you default to like poor practices.
[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So One Password has this very real mission
[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: similar to how I felt when I was at Miki and Zi,
[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say.
[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to be part of that.
[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So when you got to One Password,
[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03]: 600 people?
[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're, what did you say now, 1200?
[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: 1400?
[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Close to 1400.
[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So what's, what is that hiring?
[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a big, that's a lot of growth.
[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot of growth, right?
[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_03]: What does that, yeah, what does that hiring look like?
[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you doing that manually?
[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You talking to people like where are you at in this process?
[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Like me myself, what's my role in that?
[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm still very involved.
[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I also interview,
[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: especially at the senior leadership level.
[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So also be actively involved in those hiring process.
[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it keeps you fresh.
[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It keeps you in the game.
[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It helps sanity check some of our processes
[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and our practices.
[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But for the rest of it, I mostly lead the team.
[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So I help ensure that,
[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's not a straight line, right?
[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We've never fully frozen hiring in the,
[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: since I've been there in the two years and a half,
[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: but there are times where it's full speed.
[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: There are times where let's scale it back.
[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: One Password is a very financially prudent company.
[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're also very reactive, right?
[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Depending on what signals we get,
[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: we want to make sure that we keep people,
[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_00]: or people save, keep people employed.
[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we will,
[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes it's like full speed.
[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's helping the team think about volume.
[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you, what are the new things?
[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So challenging the teams on new approaches,
[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: new ways of doing things.
[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's more the role I play is like,
[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: okay, whispering to them, okay, this is happening.
[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we adjust?
[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: This might happen.
[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we adjust?
[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right now we're thinking,
[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm helping the team think a lot about AI.
[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Our candidates are probably using AI.
[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We're a fully remote company.
[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_00]: All of our interviews are remote.
[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean?
[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we protect ourselves from that,
[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_00]: from candidates being able to do whatever they want
[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_00]: on their own screen in their own space?
[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So the role I play now,
[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I think is much more of a facilitator
[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and convener of information
[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: from what the business is dealing with
[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and what my team needs to know
[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: to be able to understand their purpose,
[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_00]: their mission, but also what are all the curveballs
[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that could be coming our way
[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and making sure that we're thinking about them.
[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: When you do interview,
[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: do you have a favorite interview question
[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: or do you have a thing that you like to take candidates through?
[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I think nothing out,
[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: like nothing crazy was funny when I started.
[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody had this question about,
[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and they love their question about,
[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: how do you make a grilled cheese?
[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Walk me through making a grilled cheese.
[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a McKinsey question.
[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was the one password thing.
[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, why are manhole covers round?
[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, to them it was because it was in our customer success.
[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So to them, it helped you understand how someone can be very clear
[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and detailed about a process.
[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, I think it's just making it personable.
[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I love to spend time at the beginning.
[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll make sure to talk about my two girls.
[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll make sure to talk about the sports I play,
[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: where I live, who I am.
[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll have to make sure I tell people,
[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: English is my second language.
[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I might trip on my words.
[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean I'm not smart.
[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean I'll make sure to try to be humble,
[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because I've gotten the feedback that then when I jump into the questions,
[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually quite serious and then I want to make sure they understand I'm a human.
[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You're lulling them into a false sense of security.
[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a safe state.
[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_02]: This is what we're doing.
[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: What you're really doing is,
[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: oh, let me tell you all this stuff.
[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_00]: No, but I mean, I think I'll look like that,
[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's not what I'm thinking.
[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's more that I can be a very focused person
[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and then wrap up with the same thing.
[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Going back to anything at all, I can answer.
[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I am an open book.
[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to know?
[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to make sure that people joining us
[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: know what they're getting into and that speaks to them.
[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that it's really a win-win.
[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's more those human steps at the beginning and end.
[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_03]: The final question,
[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I know we're coming up on time here,
[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_03]: the final question on my side is somewhat of a,
[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: well, I'll ask a question,
[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_03]: but we just had the conversation with a gentleman
[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_03]: that I found there in COI proof,
[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: which does deep fakes, the security around deep fakes,
[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and just what you're talking about,
[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_03]: remote, you're interviewing who they are,
[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_03]: who they say they are, all of that stuff.
[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was really interesting that you just...
[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Legit threat, yes.
[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like to the point of like,
[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to go to sleep tonight type of threats.
[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know that you're Gabrielle.
[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: You may be somebody in another country.
[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Dirt out of country.
[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You have to prove to me that I don't even know that you are.
[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So what are you doing?
[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't need to know secret sauce,
[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but is that a concern for you right now?
[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_03]: As you're interviewing people remotely
[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_03]: or even working with people remotely,
[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: are you scared of that?
[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes.
[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting.
[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never really...
[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean like I knew it's there, but I've never...
[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess I never really just thought about it.
[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I know it's a random question,
[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_03]: but I'm like, okay, you just mentioned it.
[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like how do you know that I'm Ryan?
[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I don't even know that you're Gabrielle.
[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's weird.
[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's also because our team is very much
[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_00]: create a good experience.
[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: We want to make sure that people also
[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: put people first value.
[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of our core values.
[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like how do you strike that balance as well?
[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you don't want to go too far down the skeptical train
[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: because at the same time you do want to trust
[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and we lead with honesty.
[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so also same thing with AI, right?
[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't want to have this fully automated process
[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_00]: overuse AI.
[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So quite honestly it's like
[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't want to overdo it for candidates,
[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: but yet how do we protect ourselves through that?
[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Because some of the candidates aren't as well intended
[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're using it.
[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like such a strange balance, frankly, to strike
[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and we have not solved it
[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and it is keeping us up at night.
[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Not consistently in the sense that we like to have faith in humanity
[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're not alone in that train
[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: in the sense that there's onboarding,
[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_00]: there's IT, there's like I think it is,
[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not, we're going to try to catch it.
[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And so far I think we've been good at catching it very soon.
[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you all are a security company.
[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, how about anything?
[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: On doctor, can you imagine if that happened to us?
[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, where Andrew made Ryan and I cry,
[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: he said you can't trust your eyes anymore.
[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Your eyes up until a certain point
[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you could trust your eyes.
[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Now that's gone.
[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And the commercialization, these technologies are cheap
[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're high quality.
[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're at a point now that this isn't futuristic.
[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're a practitioner and you've got your head in a sand
[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: going oh yeah, I'll deal with five years.
[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_03]: He said last year you could say that.
[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_03]: This year you cannot.
[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And next year definitely cannot.
[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Terrifying.
[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_03]: He was Tom Cruise on the call for a while.
[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He pulled up a thing and it's like,
[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_03]: you look like Tom Cruise.
[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Seriously, like it legit.
[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean we hire about 500 people a year.
[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: We have over 200,000 applicants a year.
[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So like it's there.
[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, 100%.
[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's how do you protect?
[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: We're spending a lot of time thinking
[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and educating ourselves on all the ways
[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that we could protect ourselves from that,
[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: protect the company from that,
[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: but also remain true to our values and who we are.
[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Last question for me is advice you'd give your younger self.
[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What would you?
[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think at one point through all that journey
[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I did not lose myself,
[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but I did lose a lot of confidence.
[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_00]: While I kind of fake it till you make it.
[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Like for sure I played the part.
[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Was that the investor?
[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Was that the institutional investing deal?
[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that in just a lot of years in an environment
[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_00]: where I was very well supported.
[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a lot of sponsors, a lot of people.
[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like I didn't know how to appreciate that
[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's a point where you're always self critical.
[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You're very self critical.
[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think I encourage myself to figure out ways
[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to ground myself more often than I potentially did
[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: because around the time I was leaving the firm
[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_00]: like I did have to take a step back
[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and actually it was thanks to the other interview process
[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing which was in leadership advisory.
[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00]: They actually grounded me at one point they're like
[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and they almost had me in tears at one point in an interview
[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: because they have this introspection type interview
[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and they went they're like who,
[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_00]: think of that Gabrielle at 16 at camp
[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was like I choked up and they're like where is she?
[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like she's there but...
[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: She's cleaning up vomit.
[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: She's sucking her thumb in a fetal position
[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that's where she is right now.
[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you can have this like you can seize all the opportunities
[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but just make sure that through all that
[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: you are grounded.
[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you do embrace it and absorb it
[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and I would often say I just got lucky you know.
[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Be true to ones to to thine self.
[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a like Shakespearean.
[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabrielle you've been a wonderful guest
[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and thank you so much for sharing your journey,
[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: your story, other practitioners are going to absolutely love it
[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: so just thank you for being on the show.
[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Merci.
[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha!
[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew we'd get it.
[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.
[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for everyone listening and watching until next time.
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