Navigating Cultural Insights in HR: Gabrielle Caron's Journey from Summer Camp to VP at 1Password

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This is William Tencup and Ryan Leary.

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You are listening and hopefully watching the Practitioner Podcast.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_02]: We have a wonderful guest on today.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Before we ask that, Ryan, how are you doing today?

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I love it.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I can go in the more detail.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to check in with you.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to check in with you every once in a while.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Just say how you're doing.

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_03]: You know what? I'm on my third cup of coffee today.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a difference for me.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you get this.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_03]: If I have four, five, six cups of water versus three cups of coffee.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, 100%.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's the opposite.

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel fresh.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I'm ready for bed.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you're talking to a Canadian.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's Tim Hortons is a thing.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a legit thing.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially in Toronto.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's a sticky topic.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure I'm going to jump in.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: This is no Dutch Brothers Starbucks.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to get an idea of that stuff.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't own McDonald's.

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just a coffee shop.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a thing.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But just because of all the time I've spent in Ottawa and Toronto,

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Tim Hortons is legit.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a thing.

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was uneducated and got educated.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm totally uneducated because I thought you were talking about a food place.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That's how bad.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It's better than Starbucks.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So imagine Starbucks.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Is the Canadian Dunkin' Donut?

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, all right.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_03]: There we go.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: That's it.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_03]: I am very simple when it comes to coffee.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're not doing order enough.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even do...

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_03]: This is how bad it is, Gabrielle.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_03]: My wife makes coffee in the morning.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a single serving, right?

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_03]: She does her cup and then I just hit it again

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and it goes through and that's my cup of coffee.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know if you can consider that coffee.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: That's coffee flavored water.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That's not even coffee.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Based on her face, I'm going to say...

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabrielle's about to school us.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabrielle, what would you do?

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you something.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_03]: We talk French up here.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Do us a favor and introduce yourself.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us a little bit about you.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll sip my coffee.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So in French, that's café.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: We'll start with that.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: There we go.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Gabrielle.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Gabrielle in French.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00]: That was my French, I promised.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I am the VP of talent, DAB and people insights

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: at OnePassword based in Montreal,

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_00]: a native French speaker.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I will maybe drop a bit of French here and there

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: just to keep it natural or stay true to myself.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd be cool if that.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So give me the title again real quick.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_00]: VP of...

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a long title.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the talent acquisition team.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I oversee the talent acquisition team.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: DAB, so diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I also actually lead our employer brand

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and internal comms team.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And then people insights.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So basically people analytics.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So first of all, how did all four of those things come together?

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking like,

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: do you run the cafeteria as well?

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_03]: We're doing that.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're calling the mode.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I would if we were in person.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Fair enough.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Like employer brand and recruiting, that's logical.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I get that.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I could see DI, I could see that as well.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people on talent acquisition also

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_02]: cross-functionally either own that or have a hand in it.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But people analytics typically is like a different...

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: That's all the way.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: That's someone else.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It is.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's, first of all, congratulations.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it is a lot of responsibility.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And you got your hands.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You probably never have the same day twice.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Nope.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I love, frankly.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So how did you get to that specific space

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_02]: of having those four different responsibilities?

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So I joined One Password like two years and a half ago.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And how I joined One Password was that a former colleague of mine

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: put me in touch with someone that he had worked with in the past,

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: our chief people officer, Katia Levile.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And she was just about to join One Password.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And we started having some conversations

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and seeing what we could explore.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't really know what I wanted to do next.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Frankly, when you're about to look for your next gig,

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: people often ask, oh, what do you want to do?

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want?

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I want to contribute.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to thrive.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be part of something.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to believe in the mission, the value,

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of what could sound like soft stuff to folks,

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_00]: but what was for me true meaning.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to be stimulated.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I came from the world of consulting.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00]: We can talk about that later.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do love numbers.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I came from a world that was very fact data driven.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And One Password actually didn't have that function.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And so there was also a lot of like building and setting up.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And so she was trying to create something that would be meaningful,

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_00]: maybe something she was passionate about.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: She strongly believes in like people analytics.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And so she put it together.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, it was a bit of a thought process obviously,

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_00]: but I was sold.

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's lived up to exactly what I would hope.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're pretty proud of what we've done.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a lot of fun, honestly.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. So, and I know it's going to be hard to do this.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So paint it broadly.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: What do you do?

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So you have all these titles, right?

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And I know there's very specific roles in each of these.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm assuming you don't say Monday on the,

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah, we're saying like Monday, I'm in talent Tuesday,

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_03]: diversity.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I know you're not doing that, but what is, what is your...

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you keep track of it all?

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. Like what are you doing?

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you manage all of that?

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. Well, the first thing I'll say, which might be cheesy,

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but I'm incredibly well surrounded.

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So I have a phenomenal team and phenomenal leaders

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that lead each of those pillars.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the first, I think key to success.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And so what I do, a lot of what I do is sponsor and mentor

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: those folks.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So I spend a lot of time making sure that they have

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: the support, that they have the room.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So we connect.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: What is consistent in my week is almost an hour with

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: each one of them at a minimum an hour with each one of them

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: to just chat through what's going on.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What are the roadblocks?

[00:06:39] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the vision, you know, tactically or up there high in

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: the sky?

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's, I guess I'm like the chef deorchestre.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have, there you go.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Another French word for you, the orchestra.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So, so that's a lot of what I do.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I also help set the vision.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So by spending time with each of them getting to know

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_00]: what they're passionate about, what they're seeing in throughout

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_00]: the company based on what I'm hearing throughout the company

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: because I'll join a lot of other meetings with other functions

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: with other operational leaders and try to understand what is

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: top of mind right now at what password.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: What are we going through?

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And how can my functions really support that, enable that

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: help help the rest of the company thrive while being

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_00]: true to those mandates, let's say, and those priorities.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So I help put all that together and make sure that it stays

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_00]: top of mind.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that we're not going like this or that we're not kind of

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: operating blindly, but really making staying focused and

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: anchored in all that and then solve like all the thousands

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of random problems that come up.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can imagine D.I.B. with everything going on in the

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: world.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00]: There's constantly new things thrown our way.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Same with people analytics, you know, there's troubleshooting.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: There's brand new things, new ways of looking at the data

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and new data sources we might want to integrate.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's always new things that pop up.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: There's AI right now on the hiring front.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So staying on top of all of those things and make sure that

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: we promise all that together as a team and that we try to

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: stay at the forefront.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Last question about your current company is, is there a

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: through line that goes across a thread that goes across

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_02]: all four of the responsibilities?

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Me?

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Me?

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I am.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: There is because they all interact at one point or another.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So we bring people analytics to employer brand.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring people analytics to hiring.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring people analytics to D.I.B.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring D.I.B. to hiring.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring D.I.B. to employer brand.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_00]: We bring D.I.B. to analytics.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So analytics serves D.I.B.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: But D.I.B. serves how we frame up.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So they do all really interact and they really interact

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: with my peers as well right in the compensation

[00:08:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and benefits world and our HRBPs and learning and development.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So even across the HR function, but within all of my

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: worlds I very often bring them all together.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And then what I love to do is we just stop and ask

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: ourselves okay what's top, what's happening at the company

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: right now?

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: What's happening in the market and how do we help each other out?

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: What's top of mind for each of you and how do we get

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: all that knowledge together?

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we get those priorities together and problem-solving

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00]: in a more holistic way versus being like tell me about

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: talent today, tell me about, you know I think that's...

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like it's also on a foundation of data.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: All of the things that you do because of where your background

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and things like that, that everything is data driven.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Like again you're not a, this isn't an HR function

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: of 30 years ago where people really had to do things

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: on instinct and because they either they didn't have

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: the data or they did have the data to know what to do with it.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Very much so.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's data but it's also people.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It's also like who are these humans?

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We're supporting these humans at this great company

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and we want them to be in a place to thrive.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: We want them to be in a place where they're really

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: set up for success and they help one password be successful.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: They help us serve our clients and so it also brings

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: the human element actually and so that's what I like

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: actually is being able to bring those two friends

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: because in isolation to me they feel quite incomplete

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: whereas bringing them both together then I am like,

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I thrive like then I'm like, you can ask my team.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They know it's like the gap that we have.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_00]: We use a lot of emojis and like I have the monkey.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_00]: There's another monkey that goes like this all the time

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's when we're talking about that stuff.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like...

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_03]: So you want to go backwards a little bit?

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: 100%

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And let's start learning about the journey.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_03]: So the idea here Gabrielle is that

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_03]: we want to understand your journey.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_03]: How did you get to where you are today?

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: You just don't start and get to where you're at.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's understand that a little bit.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Go back towards University College

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and what did you want to be?

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You come out and say...

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: What was the dream?

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say ballerina.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I did do ballet.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I would still say V-P-H-R.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_00]: No, but I didn't want to be a ballerina.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's a tough job.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a tough job.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: That's cool.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: One of my daughters, Gabrielle, watches...

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03]: She's watching Dance Mom.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_03]: All the reboots of Dance Mom.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And in between there's a lot of ballerina or ballet

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and stuff like that.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_03]: My God!

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_03]: The feet on these kids...

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: They're young.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: They're 12, 13, 10.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah?

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: And their feet are just wrecked.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, insane.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I dated a ballerina at one point in my life

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and the rigor in which their athletes...

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's no different than any other type of athletes.

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But the rigor...

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You're falling down on wood.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we don't talk about that.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_02]: They're not in pads either.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: But it looks critical.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It does.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It does, but those bruises are legit.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_03]: What was the dream?

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_02]: What was the dream?

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't have one specific dream, frankly.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember when I was looking at the university programs,

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, maybe I could be an architect.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I could be a lawyer.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I can be...

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I had this thing of someone that manages stuff.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like maybe in the hotel industry.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned briefly when we were catching up before I worked for the Olympics.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So I liked...

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: That was an industry that interested me.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was exploring a lot of things.

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: My dad actually...

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I ended up getting the same degree as my dad,

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: but my dad studied in business.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I knew I liked to manage a lot of things,

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: organize a lot of things.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I was able to multitask a lot.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But as for everybody,

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: rarely do you dream of being in business.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And in parallel through university and even before that,

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I had always worked in summer camps.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Sleep-A-Wake camps.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And when I started working,

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I had always been a camper,

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I started working there.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And then quickly, I actually started getting promoted just

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: by being me, just by being super organized,

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: by helping lead others,

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_00]: by being very thoughtful about...

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I was 16 and I was managing 120 kids, 20 counselors.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Most of them older than myself.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: So it worked.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I was good at it.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I continued doing it, and I enjoyed it.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed it.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: It was very stimulating and motivating

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and rewarding, frankly.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's when I was like,

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: well, maybe I can study that

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and do something like that somewhere somehow.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: But again, where I am today,

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: or how I land at OnePassword, was true then.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, I just want to enjoy what I'm doing, frankly.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I figured I'll go study business,

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and if I need to reorient myself

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: towards a very specific topic or whatnot,

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I could always do that.

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But in Quebec, the specifics is that

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: we go to university right out of college.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So we start university at like 17 or 18,

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and then by 20 you're done in the workplace for good.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's quite young and it goes pretty fast.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Sounds so daunting.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, same here, right?

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess I was 22-ish.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I was a little bit older because I skipped.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I took years off between high school and college.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So the stay away camps,

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_02]: were they week long or month long?

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think kids would join us for two weeks.

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So they would arrive on a Sunday,

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_00]: stay with us for two weeks.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They were campers from...

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So the first year I was in charge of like the age groups,

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: we had campers from Mexico, Korea.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: They were kids from all over,

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'll always remember one of the stays,

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_00]: we called them like two week stays,

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_00]: one of them we got a gastrointestinal

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: epidemic of some type.

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was managing kids in ISIL

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and you don't call parents, like you'd figure it out.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was managing kids and counselors in isolation,

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: taking them out, cleaning stuff,

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: kids healthy, rotations of staff and rotations of...

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a parent now.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And I look back and I'm like, what?

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well...

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You were a camper before.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So as a child you went to camps.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I love that by the way.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I love summer camps for kids.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I just think it's a great way to learn.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: What was it?

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Was it kind of the traditional kind of old school archery,

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_02]: horseback riding, you know that type of stuff?

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a camp that was like based on the Olympics values.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot of biking,

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: we had circus, we had gymnastics, canoeing.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But as I grew up I did these like leadership programs.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I did a leadership program where they even threw us

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: in the wood and did this like three-day survival.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You had your little sandwich bag and you had a sandwich.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I had two slices of bread, a cheese, an apple, crackers,

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_00]: little bag of nuts.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was it for two nights in three days.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And you had to like figure out your food

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and we were allowed to bring three things.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But we had a book to journal and to write stuff.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So I always...

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think...

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00]: I think when you're young you don't know what leadership is

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think I felt like I had something of that in me

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was always drawn towards these opportunities where...

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you put me in a group of folks I won't be the person

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that's like, I've got y'all.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is what I'm going to be the one that takes a lead

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: but if everyone turns to me I will step up and I will...

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think I was lucky enough to be put

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: in these circumstances where I was able to do that,

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_00]: where people did turn to me or...

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot opportunistic as well, right?

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Because frankly when I got the first management role

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_00]: there was a leader in place.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: He was overseeing me and he unfortunately burnt out

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: and left after a week, didn't come back

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and so they said you're up.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: After a week?

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well I'll sleep.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess maybe it wasn't his thing.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Sleep away from them.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it can happen.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean...

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially dealing with kids

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and kids are chaotic and especially...

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all these parents turn to you

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're like, you're a lot of people's parents,

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: you're managing staff, you're managing...

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_00]: It's 24-7...

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And again it's chaos, right?

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Kids are...

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: There's always something going on.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Especially if it's the first time they've been away from home.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Then you've got to navigate that.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a navigation itself.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So what did you do next?

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did that.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I would spend my summers doing that.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I went to university

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I figured I had to get a grown-up job

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_00]: so I started doing internships

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: which frankly I didn't love too much

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_00]: sitting in an office versus spending my summers out in summer.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I was a bit of...

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of questioning myself

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: like am I doing the right thing or whatnot

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_00]: then I realized that by the time I was graduating

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: there was going to be the Olympics in Canada.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Canadian, it's probably easy for me to get a job there

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_00]: so I moved out west to Whistler

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and worked for the Olympics, the 2010 Olympics

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: which was absolutely amazing

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and allowed me to explore a little bit of the hotel industry stuff.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Like do I?

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Because basically I was helping manage...

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We were doing property management

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: that were hosting all of the RCMPs

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: so the Canadian police and the media.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was in the middle of the action

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: but also in the hotel industry

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and managing a lot of things there.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: So did that for a year, loved it,

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_00]: skied a hundred days.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But then again, at the end of that

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I think I got to get a grown-up job.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So let's stay here for just a moment.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people that listen to this show

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_03]: they're practitioners, right?

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: They're just like us

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_03]: and they're going through that journey

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_03]: so they can be in any stage of this

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03]: but my suspicion is that

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of them have children

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and they're in that...

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: their children are in that situation now

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: that you're describing.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So we don't need to go crazy detailed

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_03]: so we do want to get to your full journey here.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But what was the thought process

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: going from camp traveling?

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: How far was Whistler from you?

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It's across the country.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: All the way across the country

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_03]: taking...that's a leap, right?

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not easy at that age.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_03]: What's the thought process there

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and how should a parent maybe process?

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It's okay for my child to go do this crazy thing

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and not have a plan.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well my parents were very involved

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: in that process actually.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_00]: My parents, always when I would get these...

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: My parents would have said, hell no.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Like that's it.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_03]: They would not have let me go on more than three blocks.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what? I thought they would say no.

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember I floated it.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I had gone skiing with my dad

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're sitting in the ski lift

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was like, hey dad

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to graduate around the Olympics.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So...and I was like, this isn't going to fly.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: He actually liked it.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, that's really interesting.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And my parents had always said,

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_00]: complete your education, complete your education.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: If you stop, you won't want to go back.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I had principles like that in mind.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: They're always like their strong workers.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They have a lot of strong work ethics.

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But they also, every time I had decisions like that

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_00]: got me to do was the pro and con list.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: What are the advantages?

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: What are the inconvenience?

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the downside?

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the upside?

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're also very consistent people.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So they had always said complete your education.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was completing my education,

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: completing my degree.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It also actually meant accelerating a few classes

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: to be on time and I was committing to that.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think they...

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I did the pros and cons.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_00]: They weren't that many cons.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I told them I was getting a job.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I told them they told me if things go south,

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you can come back.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You can come back and...

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And they saw commitments, I think,

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: because I was accelerating some classes.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a vision.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a strong case.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm a passionate skier.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: It's still in Canada.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Once in a lifetime, the Olympics, right?

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: How often can you work with the Olympics being exposed to that?

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I had studied management

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and everybody knows event management, like things like that.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: It was hard to assume I wouldn't be exposed at all.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I could have been.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: That could have been the case,

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but I guess they just believed in me

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and the track record I'd had so far.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So they just...

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they made sure that my thought process

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: was a strong one

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and one that made sense.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think sometimes it's not just for them to be reassured,

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think the more I was convinced,

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: the more I was having that thought process,

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the more they were hearing confidence.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And so they assumed, well, how wrong can it go?

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So do you do that with employees?

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you use some of the same tactics

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that your parents used with you?

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you do that with your...

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_00]: My parents...

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: The tactics I use with my teams

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and that I encourage my leaders to use with their teams

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_00]: is one that my parents have used with me

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: and actually one that a former boss of mine used with me,

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_00]: which is the ask questions.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: We often want to give our opinion.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We often want to tell people yes or no

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and tell them what to do.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But thinking about what you would like to tell them to do

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and then reframing that as a question

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is just so powerful.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And same with our kids, right?

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: What are you trying to achieve?

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: What's your biggest goal out of this?

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_00]: What could go wrong?

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_00]: What could...

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Because then people come...

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's so amazing to see

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_00]: because you see people just talk through it

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and often first off,

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_00]: they don't have this like amygdala hijack

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_00]: of like defensiveness or what not.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're asking questions

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's also a way to ask questions obviously

[00:23:00] but...

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And you see them like start realizing it

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and I used to do that use this a lot at my...

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_00]: When I was at McKinsey,

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the roles I played was professional development

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: so I was coaching a lot of our consultants

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_00]: through their career

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and using that approach with them

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_00]: to let them come to the aha moments

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and let them be in the driver's seat

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_00]: of their career was just so powerful

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and so I use that for parenting.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a real skill though.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_03]: That's not something everybody can do

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_03]: to take your opinion and formulate a question

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and not give your opinion during the question.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone can learn it though.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, agree.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But it is very much...

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it takes a ton of letting go of your ego.

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like not putting the potato chip in your mouth.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_03]: It's really difficult to do it.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_00]: At the beginning,

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I would prepare the conference

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: so I would dump all the things I would like to say

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00]: so I would have the conversation with myself

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and get it out of my system

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you tweak it and you're like,

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: well this could be asked in that way

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: or this could be asked in that way

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and then...

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean as a parent,

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't always do that obviously.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got my old friend now 12,

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: teenage years heading into the teenage years.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Bless you.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: But that's what I try to remember

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and to bring myself back to

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the team.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_00]: After that, we'll get caught in the moment

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and it doesn't mean we're always doing that

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: but I do think it's a skill most people can learn.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So how did you get from the Olympics to McKinsey?

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Was there some stops along the way?

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: There was, yeah.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So well there was a huge road trip.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: A long road trip,

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: a month through the U.S.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: all the way down to San Diego

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and back up.

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was wonderful.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And then back to Montreal,

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I found a role in a headhunting firm.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So did that for a year.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: A boutique firm.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I was surrounded with very strong women leaders

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: that are some that are still friends today.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But I realized that I was...

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: They believed in me,

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: but I didn't...

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I had something to learn

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_00]: before I could advise others on their career.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I kept saying to myself,

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: this is a great end of career gig.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: You know when you've learned a lot more

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know more

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and you can really be a thought partner

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: for these folks.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And then someone that I worked with

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_00]: in summer camps

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and that I had been in campers

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: was a consultant at Macon Z

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and was like, hey, they're looking for a recruiter.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You should apply.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I did.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the first things

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: that's just me was like,

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you're a bit younger than we were hoping.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I've gotten that before.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_00]: But let me prove you wrong.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And because like in the summer camps

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: it was the same thing.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I was only 16.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't the ideal profile

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: of a leader back then for them.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And so probably a lot of confidence

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and influencing

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and I got the role

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and then spent 11 years.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_02]: 11 years at Macon Z.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And the progression,

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_02]: so you started in recruiting

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_02]: but you also did professional development.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: What was the,

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_02]: what are some of the steps?

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I did a lot of roles actually

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_00]: at Macon Z.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So I started in recruiting

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and then had some downtime

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_00]: which I don't do very well with.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And so there were a few consultants

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in the office and partners that believed in me

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and brought me along on some projects

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: which is not common normally

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're in the support staff,

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_00]: you're in the support staff

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and they brought me to clients

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00]: and coached me on how to serve clients.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: They were people related topics

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: so they're like,

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_00]: we see you have an instinct.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So I used some of the skills that I had

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: as well as leaning into sponsorship,

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: leaning into people who believed in me

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and so started serving some clients.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: At that point

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I debated fully moving

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: into the consulting track.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: But I did have a younger,

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I already had my 12 year old by then

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and so that wasn't like,

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that's not what I wanted in my life.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: At least 80% travel,

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes 100% travel.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a hard bit.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so another sponsor of mine

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: was like,

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I think I have this great role

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that's actually half consulting.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have a client

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and then also you can help us build

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_00]: this practice.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So thinking about how they serve certain clients,

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: he's like, it's an institutional investing

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was like,

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna do all that

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm gonna get back to you.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_00]: But I always believe if people believe in me,

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna lean in.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I completely moved out of people.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Was not doing anything people related

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_00]: for a few years

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was so hard.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: There were tears,

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of tears,

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of question marks.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But I grew tremendously

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and honestly I don't think I would be where I am today

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: if I hadn't taken that gig.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_00]: That's when some of the analytics start taking in.

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00]: That's when I started just,

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: not just leading by what I knew

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: because I didn't know anything in that space

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: but leading by the judgment I could bring,

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_00]: the questions I could ask,

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the perspective I could build outside in.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's quite powerful the day

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that we start leading,

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_00]: not just with expertise

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but with like who we are.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that makes sense.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_03]: It does and it's super timely

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_03]: because we just had a conversation

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and we were talking about,

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how did they label it?

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: How does he label it with the,

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_03]: you're doing the rankings.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_03]: You have to rank so many at like

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: high performer to five,

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_03]: low performer to one,

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: consistent to two or three.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And so one of the questions I had asked him was,

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03]: because often we'll see individual contributors

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_03]: be fantastic,

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_03]: stellar what they do.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_03]: And they become really bad leaders

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: because they're just not a leader.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_03]: But then you have the so-so performers

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_03]: that have amazing ability to lead people.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Not saying you're not a great contributor

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's the confidence that you're talking about.

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_03]: You obviously you were a great contributor.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You led in the camp,

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_03]: you did different things

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_03]: but then you found this confidence

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and the ability to ask questions,

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the ability to probe people

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and listen and understand.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just a timely conversation

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_03]: that we're having now

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_03]: because we just spoke about that.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I failed.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, don't get me wrong.

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Like some of the, at the beginning,

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: some of the meetings I would have

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_00]: or I would leave the meetings in it

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm pretty sure they asked themselves like,

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: hmm, she's coming back.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Like why?

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I've had some,

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_00]: people say some difficult,

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had like difficult

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00]: for you to find her.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you say,

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: like have you,

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_00]: like you have a brain?

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Like do you know how to use it?

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: For context or edification

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: for the audience,

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: McKinsey is loaded with smart people.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just one of these bits

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that stupid people don't work at McKinsey.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And so you're surrounded

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_02]: with sharks that are smart.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: They're smart.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: They're smarter.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a culture of high performance.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: For years we would say,

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: it is you are surrounded by insecure overachievers.

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So everybody was best of their class.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody was smart.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody, like when I started hiring for them,

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00]: we were looking at GPAs.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We would 4.0 would be like minimum.

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Minimum mistakes.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And your 4.0,

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you had to have done many other things.

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the recipe back then.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And like again, this was 15 years ago almost now.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like different world, different knowledge.

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time,

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_00]: when you can ground yourself in that,

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's not always easy,

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and there are a ton of up and down,

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00]: but you do learn so much.

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And what I did appreciate at McKinsey

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: was I was always surrounded by people

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: who had so much heart,

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: so much passion for solving these difficult problems,

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: for helping these organizations

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and potentially at times too much.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And like, you know, they have their story,

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: but that spoke to me.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like you had some great mentors

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and sponsors around you as well.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I did.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And to this day, they're all still in my,

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: they're all still on just a phone call away.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So why leave McKinsey?

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so after that,

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: I went to the people

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_00]: to professional development,

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: did that for five or six years.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I did a last role

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: talent management for a year and a bit.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But, well after that,

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I wanted to, the next phase of growing up, right?

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to see how that played out in industry.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to take that and really build a business.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to be closer to them to the,

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: well that said actually, I should say,

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I did consider going back to staying and consulting.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I did for a little wonder

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: about like people advisory and things like that.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was quite tested in those process

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_00]: because I was very close to offer and they were like,

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00]: is this what you want to do?

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Or you want to be in the weeds?

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You want to be in the business?

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And same Katya when she hired me,

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: she said, do you want to keep advising

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_00]: or you want to like foot in the game?

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_00]: And there was some...

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_02]: It's different.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Very different.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I chose like a foot in the game

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and I started at One Password,

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: we were 600, we're now close to 1400.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: That's my team that helped build all of that.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Being part of that journey is phenomenal.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And One Password has such a strong mission

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: that speaks to me, right?

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We keep people safe.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We protect people's passwords.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: We help older generations.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_00]: We help people who suffer with mental health

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: because they struggle often.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: That's when your memory falls short

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_00]: or that's when you default to like poor practices.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So One Password has this very real mission

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: similar to how I felt when I was at Miki and Zi,

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to be part of that.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_03]: So when you got to One Password,

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_03]: 600 people?

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And you're, what did you say now, 1200?

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: 1400?

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Close to 1400.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So what's, what is that hiring?

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a big, that's a lot of growth.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot of growth, right?

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_03]: What does that, yeah, what does that hiring look like?

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you doing that manually?

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You talking to people like where are you at in this process?

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Like me myself, what's my role in that?

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm still very involved.

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I also interview,

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: especially at the senior leadership level.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So also be actively involved in those hiring process.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it keeps you fresh.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It keeps you in the game.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It helps sanity check some of our processes

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and our practices.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But for the rest of it, I mostly lead the team.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So I help ensure that,

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_00]: because it's not a straight line, right?

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We've never fully frozen hiring in the,

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: since I've been there in the two years and a half,

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: but there are times where it's full speed.

[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_00]: There are times where let's scale it back.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_00]: One Password is a very financially prudent company.

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So we're also very reactive, right?

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Depending on what signals we get,

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_00]: we want to make sure that we keep people,

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_00]: or people save, keep people employed.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we will,

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_00]: sometimes it's like full speed.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's helping the team think about volume.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_00]: How do you, what are the new things?

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So challenging the teams on new approaches,

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_00]: new ways of doing things.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's more the role I play is like,

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_00]: okay, whispering to them, okay, this is happening.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we adjust?

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: This might happen.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we adjust?

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Right now we're thinking,

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm helping the team think a lot about AI.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Our candidates are probably using AI.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: We're a fully remote company.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_00]: All of our interviews are remote.

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean?

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_00]: How do we protect ourselves from that,

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_00]: from candidates being able to do whatever they want

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_00]: on their own screen in their own space?

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So the role I play now,

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I think is much more of a facilitator

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and convener of information

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00]: from what the business is dealing with

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and what my team needs to know

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_00]: to be able to understand their purpose,

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_00]: their mission, but also what are all the curveballs

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_00]: that could be coming our way

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and making sure that we're thinking about them.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: When you do interview,

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: do you have a favorite interview question

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: or do you have a thing that you like to take candidates through?

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I think nothing out,

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: like nothing crazy was funny when I started.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody had this question about,

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and they love their question about,

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: how do you make a grilled cheese?

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Walk me through making a grilled cheese.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a McKinsey question.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was the one password thing.

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, why are manhole covers round?

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, to them it was because it was in our customer success.

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So to them, it helped you understand how someone can be very clear

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and detailed about a process.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, I think it's just making it personable.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I love to spend time at the beginning.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll make sure to talk about my two girls.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll make sure to talk about the sports I play,

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_00]: where I live, who I am.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll have to make sure I tell people,

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_00]: English is my second language.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I might trip on my words.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean I'm not smart.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean I'll make sure to try to be humble,

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_00]: because I've gotten the feedback that then when I jump into the questions,

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually quite serious and then I want to make sure they understand I'm a human.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You're lulling them into a false sense of security.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a safe state.

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_02]: This is what we're doing.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_02]: What you're really doing is,

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: oh, let me tell you all this stuff.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_00]: No, but I mean, I think I'll look like that,

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's not what I'm thinking.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It's more that I can be a very focused person

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and then wrap up with the same thing.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Going back to anything at all, I can answer.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I am an open book.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to know?

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to make sure that people joining us

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: know what they're getting into and that speaks to them.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that it's really a win-win.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's more those human steps at the beginning and end.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_03]: The final question,

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I know we're coming up on time here,

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_03]: the final question on my side is somewhat of a,

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: well, I'll ask a question,

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_03]: but we just had the conversation with a gentleman

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_03]: that I found there in COI proof,

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: which does deep fakes, the security around deep fakes,

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and just what you're talking about,

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_03]: remote, you're interviewing who they are,

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_03]: who they say they are, all of that stuff.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_03]: So it was really interesting that you just...

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Legit threat, yes.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like to the point of like,

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to go to sleep tonight type of threats.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know that you're Gabrielle.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_03]: You may be somebody in another country.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Dirt out of country.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You have to prove to me that I don't even know that you are.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So what are you doing?

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't need to know secret sauce,

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but is that a concern for you right now?

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_03]: As you're interviewing people remotely

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_03]: or even working with people remotely,

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: are you scared of that?

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never really...

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean like I knew it's there, but I've never...

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess I never really just thought about it.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And so I know it's a random question,

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_03]: but I'm like, okay, you just mentioned it.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_03]: It's like how do you know that I'm Ryan?

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I don't even know that you're Gabrielle.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's weird.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's also because our team is very much

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_00]: create a good experience.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_00]: We want to make sure that people also

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: put people first value.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of our core values.

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like how do you strike that balance as well?

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you don't want to go too far down the skeptical train

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00]: because at the same time you do want to trust

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and we lead with honesty.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so also same thing with AI, right?

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't want to have this fully automated process

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_00]: overuse AI.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So quite honestly it's like

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: we don't want to overdo it for candidates,

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00]: but yet how do we protect ourselves through that?

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Because some of the candidates aren't as well intended

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and they're using it.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It's like such a strange balance, frankly, to strike

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and we have not solved it

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and it is keeping us up at night.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Not consistently in the sense that we like to have faith in humanity

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: and we're not alone in that train

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: in the sense that there's onboarding,

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_00]: there's IT, there's like I think it is,

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not, we're going to try to catch it.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And so far I think we've been good at catching it very soon.

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you all are a security company.

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, how about anything?

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: On doctor, can you imagine if that happened to us?

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, where Andrew made Ryan and I cry,

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: he said you can't trust your eyes anymore.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Your eyes up until a certain point

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you could trust your eyes.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Now that's gone.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And the commercialization, these technologies are cheap

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're high quality.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're at a point now that this isn't futuristic.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're a practitioner and you've got your head in a sand

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: going oh yeah, I'll deal with five years.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_03]: He said last year you could say that.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_03]: This year you cannot.

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And next year definitely cannot.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Terrifying.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_03]: He was Tom Cruise on the call for a while.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_03]: He pulled up a thing and it's like,

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_03]: you look like Tom Cruise.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Seriously, like it legit.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean we hire about 500 people a year.

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_00]: We have over 200,000 applicants a year.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So like it's there.

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, 100%.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's how do you protect?

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_00]: We're spending a lot of time thinking

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_00]: and educating ourselves on all the ways

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that we could protect ourselves from that,

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_00]: protect the company from that,

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: but also remain true to our values and who we are.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Last question for me is advice you'd give your younger self.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What would you?

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I do think at one point through all that journey

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I did not lose myself,

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but I did lose a lot of confidence.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_00]: While I kind of fake it till you make it.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Like for sure I played the part.

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Was that the investor?

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Was that the institutional investing deal?

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that in just a lot of years in an environment

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_00]: where I was very well supported.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I had a lot of sponsors, a lot of people.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like I didn't know how to appreciate that

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's a point where you're always self critical.

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You're very self critical.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think I encourage myself to figure out ways

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_00]: to ground myself more often than I potentially did

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_00]: because around the time I was leaving the firm

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_00]: like I did have to take a step back

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and actually it was thanks to the other interview process

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing which was in leadership advisory.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00]: They actually grounded me at one point they're like

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and they almost had me in tears at one point in an interview

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: because they have this introspection type interview

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and they went they're like who,

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_00]: think of that Gabrielle at 16 at camp

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was like I choked up and they're like where is she?

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like she's there but...

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: She's cleaning up vomit.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: She's sucking her thumb in a fetal position

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that's where she is right now.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you can have this like you can seize all the opportunities

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_00]: but just make sure that through all that

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_00]: you are grounded.

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you do embrace it and absorb it

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_00]: and I would often say I just got lucky you know.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Be true to ones to to thine self.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a like Shakespearean.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Gabrielle you've been a wonderful guest

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and thank you so much for sharing your journey,

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: your story, other practitioners are going to absolutely love it

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: so just thank you for being on the show.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Merci.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha!

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew we'd get it.

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome.

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for everyone listening and watching until next time.