Jean Bays, Head of People at Neat: The Power of Internships, Effective Communication, and Global Experience

[00:00:00] Hello, this is William Tinker, Brian Leary. You are listening and watching Practitioners Corner. Today we have Jean on. Is it Jean?

[00:00:12] Yes, it's Jean. Yes.

[00:00:14] Okay. Well, you know in France they might pronounce that a little bit different. So I just wanted to make sure.

[00:00:21] Absolutely. I'm always the Mr. Bass. Have we been kidding?

[00:00:25] The Mr. Bass. Yes. But it's an English first name, a female name, but it's very confusing.

[00:00:35] No, no, no. My wife's name is Michael in my CHAL.

[00:00:40] Oh, you see.

[00:00:41] Like people like literally. Yeah. So she totally understands.

[00:00:45] Today we're going to learn about your journey, your HR, your practitioner journey in particular. But let's start with where you are now.

[00:00:53] Tell us a little bit about your current role and company and things like that.

[00:00:59] So at the moment I'm very lucky to be the Chief People Officer for a Norwegian company called NEET. What we do, we make the finest video conferencing devices you can think of.

[00:01:16] It's so revolutionary. It's so beautiful. It's Norwegian engineering technology.

[00:01:26] And we are, well, we are not really still a startup. We're just coming out being a bit more often established business, but I'm heading up the people, people.

[00:01:40] So that's, that's a global role. We are looking into 24 countries at the moment. So I'm working with people all over the world.

[00:01:53] And I just said it, I feel really honored. I feel absolutely honored to have this position and and work for NEET because it's just fantastic. It's amazing.

[00:02:08] It's exciting. It's a hot mess still because we are still in this growing phase.

[00:02:18] But all in all, I only can call it an honor. Yeah, I'm with NEET now for about two years. And before that, I had many, many industries I worked in.

[00:02:31] But I have to say, and that might sound really boring, but I was always HR. So I was always in the HR space across many industries, many countries.

[00:02:46] So, but that's my journey at the moment. And I'm happy to be here.

[00:02:51] Oh, Jean, I'm not going to say you're boring. I think you're pretty cool. So we're going to start there. Yeah, yeah, we could, we could, we could go down the boring HR path, but I think we've done that too much in our careers.

[00:03:04] You know, it's interesting though, but you so. So you, you did you start your career in HR or you just kind of fell in? How did you actually get into, into this role?

[00:03:14] So actually, I started my career in a financial institute in Deutsche Bank. So that was my first ever job working straight out of university going to the big city Frankfurt and being there in the headquarter of Deutsche Bank.

[00:03:34] And that was much more of a like, I would say like a rotation system. So you had a little bit of touch points into marketing accounting, so the finance department, but as well HR.

[00:03:50] And after four years, I was approached actually by a so called headhunter. Okay.

[00:04:00] Who were targeting people to join a filtration and separation technology company from the United States of America. And they actually offered me a generalist role for them, responsible for Central Europe.

[00:04:23] And they called it so that included six countries. All HR related matters. Can you imagine how, how excited I was but oh my goodness, it was so frightening because it was so frightening.

[00:04:42] Which countries did you have? I had Austria, we all love Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and later on then as well some Nordic countries like Sweden, Norway.

[00:05:00] So a little Eastern and a little Western Europe. Exactly. So that was in my remit. As we all know, all of these countries even in the European Union have different employment laws, different currencies, different everything.

[00:05:18] So that was then my first true HR role. So growing.

[00:05:24] Real quick question on, on that because in America, a lot of people think that the employment laws in Germany and France are the most difficult to adhere to.

[00:05:36] Yes.

[00:05:37] Is that is that is that true or is that is that or do we have it wrong?

[00:05:42] It's absolutely true but I would to this list. You can absolutely 100% you can add the Netherlands. The Netherlands is is put in this group of countries and Norway as well so the Nordic countries are very employee focused, which is good.

[00:06:11] So I, I, I'm a true believer. Even when sometimes as an employer, this can be very difficult and very long processes but for the employees, it's a it's a damn good system.

[00:06:29] Dean, you know, I'm curious about I want to go backwards to the company you're at right now. What's it like working with a Nordic company, specifically specifically Norway? What's it like? What's the values and kind of, and here's why the preface.

[00:06:44] Here's why I'm interested. I just got finished watching a series on Netflix called Vikings and then Vikings Mahalo so it's about 700, 880 and so it's fascinating just to watch Viking culture.

[00:06:58] You know, the portrayal at least I'm sure it's all grossly exaggerated and stuff like that. But that said, the Nordic countries are different. They're built different. They are different. And so what is it like working with the Norwegians?

[00:07:14] It is truly, truly completely different than anything what I did before. So I really have to say that so first of all, what we all need to understand is Norwegians perfection. They are really perfection.

[00:07:35] I worked with engineers before in other industries and other companies, but Norwegians this is perfection. And what we have to understand as well, they are so they are their working style is so effective.

[00:07:58] And listen to me, I'm German when I say they are so.

[00:08:03] So that's that's kind of for me this is this is another 100% on top. They are so effective that they actually can focus as well truly truly on their life outside of work.

[00:08:22] So Norwegians take it very serious to take time off in the summers, take time off with their families. They respect that family always comes first.

[00:08:35] Even even all the laws around parental leave and all of that is very much reflecting of how respectful they are about this part in in life.

[00:08:47] So to sum it up, highly effective.

[00:08:53] The knowledge and and the, the just the expertise you will find in this country is exceptional.

[00:09:02] If you ever make a trip to to to Europe, please do go to Oslo. I mean, even even the entrance into the country, the airport, the airport train, the fast train.

[00:09:18] It's like a different world. It truly is and on top of course they have this beautiful nature and and it's just, oh my goodness, I could truly live there.

[00:09:35] I could truly consider relocating to Norway. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:09:42] I feel like we need to like create a little list of places we need to visit 100% because I've been Oslo.

[00:09:50] Yes, never been when I hear beautiful.

[00:09:52] It's gorgeous. It's as gorgeous as Jean says it is.

[00:09:55] Beautiful airports and trains. I'm thinking you need to come to Philadelphia and see what we live in because this thing is trash.

[00:10:02] It is just awful.

[00:10:04] But Jean, I got a question for you.

[00:10:08] So you mentioned something that William and I had spoken about a couple of times on another show that we host and around parental leave and benefits around parental leave.

[00:10:21] You're managing people across many countries.

[00:10:24] Yeah.

[00:10:25] How do you one? How do you rank these countries? I'm curious to since you're in this, I'm curious to get your take.

[00:10:31] How do you rank the countries in parental leave? Obviously Norway seems to be top but I'm curious to get your thoughts there and why is it so different in the states versus other countries?

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:46] So I think one of the reasons and I think that's that's for many people to to consider when we talk about parental leave what we have to understand is in countries like Norway, Germany, which is amazing as well when it comes to parental leave.

[00:11:07] In these countries, the social security system is very, very strong and the social security payments you make as an employer and as an employee will give the option for taking time off because this will be then paid out of this pot of money.

[00:11:33] You paid in with all of your contributions to social security.

[00:11:38] We clearly don't have that in USA.

[00:11:41] So that's that's one, one thing really what what for me is always like when people say, oh, but it's so much better in Germany and all of that.

[00:11:51] Well, I'm like, yeah, you pay for it before even going on parental leave.

[00:11:59] So, ranking given to you, you're actually paying.

[00:12:04] No, it's not just given. It's paid by taxes. It's paid by social security and all of that.

[00:12:11] And then you just take money out of the of this of this pot again and you will have sufficient time.

[00:12:19] I'm, I'm not here to judge.

[00:12:22] I'm not saying, oh, that's so bad in the USA. So good in Germany. It's just a different system. We all have to we all have to realize that but in my role, for example, starting with with needs.

[00:12:40] One of the first calls I received from my boss where I did not even start it to work for me that I was still working in my previous company and he called me up.

[00:12:52] And he was like, oh my God, Jean. So he is Norwegian.

[00:12:56] And he was like, we just have someone who's expecting a baby. And I just looked into what's on offer in the USA and this is horrible. I can't even think that we can live like that.

[00:13:11] It is three days.

[00:13:14] Can you look into that? What could be a parental leave policy we could install immediately as of today in need. That was pretty much my first project I did for an employer I did not even work for and look, we support our need to us the way they they deserve it having an addition to

[00:13:42] the family. I'm not making any difference between the birthing parents and the other parents.

[00:13:50] Right.

[00:13:51] And for us in need. We took the responsibility and we said no we want to have a really good approach for our neater as well in the UK because US and UK on parental leave policies is not much difference.

[00:14:07] And as well Australia, for example. So these are the three countries we have separate agreements in place but yeah that's my answer to ranking it's much more to understand of what other contributions you make beforehand.

[00:14:28] Right.

[00:14:29] So Ryan, one of the things that happens is taxation is higher and some of the European countries because of this. But the politicians don't have access to the money.

[00:14:44] Whereas in our country.

[00:14:46] The politicians have so they so they use it. They spend it on something else.

[00:14:51] So it's like, okay all these programs we don't know how we're going to fund them. Well they were actually funded.

[00:14:56] Yeah, you can go back at one point at one point at one point. Yeah.

[00:15:02] So Jean, you had taken us through the Dutch bank. The one of the things that you were telling us about is that rotation.

[00:15:09] You know, we don't do those rotations as much as we used to.

[00:15:13] We spend three months or two months in each each place and kind of figure yourself out and figure out where you fit.

[00:15:19] What do you why do you think we don't do that with what talent these days, where we bring them in raw talent and then just kind of figure that out as they do the rotations as they're doing work they're adding value so that they can figure out where they can add they can figure

[00:15:36] out we can add figure out where they can add the most value because it's time and money.

[00:15:42] William, it's, it's, I think you need to put extra effort in and just think about it you have.

[00:15:53] You have an employee who is already paid for the job he or she should do.

[00:15:59] And then you have them rotate and starting new again and again and again.

[00:16:06] And we all know how in some of these departments or areas how long it takes how you ramp up an employee how how we call it how they really contribute to the success of the company and then put out of the honeymoon phase and learned and they know how to do their job.

[00:16:27] It's actually time and money but what I have to say what I love in the US and that's that's pretty much a program that should be included in in the European countries even much more are internships.

[00:16:45] I think in the US. It's fantastic to do internships.

[00:16:51] I worked for a consultancy and we looked into the internship program for Nike and in Oregon.

[00:17:01] And I think this is amazing and the, the breadth of experience a young person can get when they are not quite sure we all know what you study at university is not your final, your final adventure.

[00:17:21] But they can actually already come out of these internships and say yes.

[00:17:26] So marketing is my passion or finance is my passion.

[00:17:31] So this is important Jean I did I did 11 internships while I was in college.

[00:17:38] And it wasn't as much of teaching me what I what I loved as much as what I hated.

[00:17:45] So while I did an internship in advertising, I came out of that three month internship going get a sucks.

[00:17:51] I'm never gonna do this.

[00:17:53] I did that.

[00:17:55] How does that work?

[00:17:57] Well, I didn't like to I didn't like the I didn't like B to see it advertising because it's different brand advertising and things like that.

[00:18:06] Yeah, it's the same thing PR did two PR internships to learn that I don't like PR.

[00:18:11] And so like it helps you with both sides to find like, oh my God, I didn't know that I was going to love this.

[00:18:17] But also yeah, I don't ever want to do that again in my life.

[00:18:20] Yeah, Jean, this is this is interesting.

[00:18:23] These conversations are sort of like my own personal therapy and my journey.

[00:18:28] Like I learned a ton from these, which is, which is never thought it would actually be that way, but it is.

[00:18:35] So when you heard this story a couple of times now, my oldest daughter 16 Jean and she's working for a restaurant.

[00:18:44] She's a host hostess at a restaurant.

[00:18:47] Now they're cross training her to be a runner to serve the food and clean up the tables and stuff like that.

[00:18:54] So now that she's been there for a couple of months as a hostess, they've moved her over into training.

[00:19:01] They also reduced her pay and she doesn't get the tips during the training.

[00:19:08] So their, their, their thought here is their theory is well you did really good here, but now we're going to train you.

[00:19:16] So we're going to have to reduce your pay to training pay, which went from $11 per hour to $4 per hour.

[00:19:23] Oh, well, you don't get any of the tips that the other waiters and waitresses are getting until you're done your training.

[00:19:30] And I'm not really sure how I feel about that, but when you say it's time and money, right to move someone why, why aren't we cross training?

[00:19:40] It's time and money. And that's how these, these restaurants looking at it, but they're actually taking the money away from the employee who has been working well in another role and performing above what they need.

[00:19:53] So this is, this is, this conversation is very interesting to me for that reason.

[00:19:57] Yeah. This is why I strongly believe so rotating in hospitality or, I mean, with the tips that's, that's, that's always very difficult approach how to make that fair in that sense but

[00:20:16] rotating for me works most perfect when you have this one general contract of employment. So where you do not fiddle around with salary hourly rates or, or it needs to be this one rock solid contract of employment or any agreement.

[00:20:39] And then, then it's a, it's a fair approach and finally I worked in hospitality when I was at uni.

[00:20:48] So I worked in big hotels as waitress cleaning rooms.

[00:20:56] I don't know cleaning the kitchen. I did that for many, many years. And we always had this. We had a tip like a glass jar. Okay.

[00:21:07] And waitress, they were only allowed to keep 50%. The other 50% was in the jar because it takes more. I mean, it's, it's that easy to put a plate on the table but who cooked it?

[00:21:23] Who washed the dishes? Yeah, who cleaned it exactly.

[00:21:27] So who's doing all of that in the background? So it's only fair that you share this in a way. I mean, on to all the waitresses out there. You will not like me for this but you should share. Come on, your tips.

[00:21:42] It takes much more to serve a guest, you know?

[00:21:49] No, absolutely. I fully agree with that. Yeah, I like the, so in Europe internships are not something that is of the norm.

[00:22:02] It is, it's becoming more and more the norm that you do even when you're at university. You have like a job in so like one day per week or a couple of hours here and there.

[00:22:20] But the power of internships like we know it from the US, that's definitely not an approach over here. Which is, that's not good. We need to get better.

[00:22:36] We are working on this in need at the moment in Norway actually, working with two universities up there to provide internships, to provide this opportunity in the engineering space.

[00:22:54] And I'm very much looking forward to see all this young talent and maybe that's future employees as well. I mean, we all know how much hiring is made from internships. That's powerful too. Absolutely.

[00:23:14] I was going to, I was actually going to ask you about that, Gene. How is hiring changed for you in the last couple of years with the advent of skill space, you have work shortage, you know, talent shortages, you got economies that are going crazy.

[00:23:30] Like, you're dealing with all of that madness. And oh, by the way, millennials and Gen Z want to be recruited differently and want to work differently and things like that. So what, what's changed for you in terms of your talent attraction philosophy?

[00:23:46] Just over the last, I'd say COVID and after. So first of all, I have the most amazing recruiter on the planet. I can tell you that we worked together 15 years ago. And a minute I landed my job in need. I gave her a call just

[00:24:08] she wanted to tap into her network and then she was interested herself. But yes, I hear you. I think over the last years, the competition and as well when you are in a startup environment, when you don't have a big name when you don't have big programs and in all of that,

[00:24:35] I would even say it's and we talk about this in HR for centuries now. So the first impression, how do you, how do you introduce the company and all of that but it became so important.

[00:24:52] I think it's nearly like 100% success for people in need when we are making initial approaches or stuff like that. How do we present need as an employer? How do we present the company, the opportunities, division, what do we want to be in five, six years and doing this with a highly professional approach.

[00:25:22] Not overselling, not overselling being open and honest as well about the challenges. And yeah, I mean we are lucky we have amazing products and we have an amazing story to tell, but getting this across the line.

[00:25:40] I think this is even more and more important. And, and even some simple facts like before COVID it was so easy to invite people to the headquarter to say, Oh look, this is where the magic happens you even can touch our products you can speak to

[00:26:01] some more people that God, I mean that that was non existing through in COVID. It was has that has the change helped you.

[00:26:13] I mean clearly you're in the space right so I mean but has has the fact that you can't invite people or weren't able to has that now play to your that's interesting good call. Yeah, good question.

[00:26:26] Well, what I can say with our technology.

[00:26:32] Even the interview experience will give a first outlook of how amazing the technology is. So that would not be the case when we would see each other face to face.

[00:26:45] But when, when we are doing interviews now and they see they see how the camera is zooming in and out the noise cancellation all all of this beautiful technology. In that way it's a very interesting question yeah that helped me as such.

[00:27:03] Yeah, I would say yes.

[00:27:05] Yeah, I think just having a great product, you're getting back to that place if it's hard when you have a crappy product and you know it in nature and you know it recruiting. It's a hard sell.

[00:27:17] Yeah, put the lipstick on a turd is that's a hard sell when you have a great product. It kind of it helps. Yeah, it kind of sells itself. Like, you know it's one of those deals.

[00:27:29] People want to I know all of us want to be a part of something that that has a passion has momentum has a focus. It looks like it's going somewhere like we all want to be.

[00:27:41] We all want to be involved with something like that. So I love hearing that. Let me let me ask you to work for Nike. Oh, right. The brand itself and you mentioned you mentioned the intern like I could see kids ain't yeah I want to work for Nike.

[00:27:57] I want to work for the armor. Yeah, I looked at that internship when I was in business school actually but I'd already decided I didn't want to do branding.

[00:28:08] So I'm like, okay, what am I going to learn about Nike? I spent seven years of my life in retail. I kind of understand that part of the business. So what are they going to teach me?

[00:28:18] So let's let's deal with some of the things through your career. Some highlights of things that you're really proud of. Maybe you know some of the things you and your team have built like you're like, you know we had a horrible onboarding process and you know tore it down built it back up.

[00:28:33] And then the flip side of that some misses where hey we thought we're going to bet heavy on this job board and yeah horrible, horrible, horrible thing just just just it was a terrible idea.

[00:28:49] And it happens to everybody. So give us some of those things if you can.

[00:28:54] So I start with the highlights or should I start with the.

[00:28:58] Oh yeah, start wherever you start wherever you're comfortable.

[00:29:02] Okay, so highlights absolutely what would and and I'm preaching this to to to everyone who's working with me is and that takes time just by the way so that's nothing you can learn in the classroom or reading a book or stuff like that.

[00:29:24] But highlights is that I truly truly can say without being arrogant.

[00:29:30] I'm truly a global people person.

[00:29:36] So and that takes time to learn about the cultural differences to learn about the, the different legislations to learn about all the little tips and tricks how to operate in the country.

[00:29:53] And using this knowledge and as well for need now, opening new territories, opening new countries.

[00:30:02] And it's going flawless. I can say tell you that I can open a new country including payroll tax identification contracts of employment in a snap and and that's it's

[00:30:19] so enjoyable. You're not daunted by that the complexity that most people would wilt under you're like okay we got 17 countries in Africa that we have employees and okay.

[00:30:32] Yeah, okay.

[00:30:34] That's like you know ways to do that.

[00:30:36] That's so fantastic quite frankly true.

[00:30:40] Yeah, the highlight highlights and again that takes time this is not overnight or just working in the space for two or three years.

[00:30:54] So downside and that happened more than once in my career and big lessons to learn from that is actually when a company is running faster, faster, faster and in this whole

[00:31:16] little bit of exciting state and messy states.

[00:31:21] You realize on one day you sit down and you know that you over hired, and you have absolutely you are not at the right size and you sit down.

[00:31:35] You sit in this meeting room in a board meeting room, and you make the decision we need to right size.

[00:31:44] And that's still all of my fellow HR people out there will know how heartbreaking this is because you maybe headhunted approached amazing talent from companies.

[00:32:01] You had an amazing future at their employer you brought them over you, they believed in the story and it was all very exciting.

[00:32:15] And these people you have a goal of okay reduction and force 20% no matter what department no matter what, but you need to execute on it.

[00:32:27] So what my mantra is in situations like that to do it in the most, most professional way we can so show the respect be absolutely on the point or processes.

[00:32:43] Everything needs to be in place to a level of excellence that we show all of our respect so we will.

[00:32:55] I can tell you the last process I had to do unfortunately.

[00:33:01] We spoke to every single individual in person.

[00:33:07] And we started at 3am in the morning starting with Asia Park rolling into Europe and rolling out to the US me in person I was on the phone in 20 minutes scale for 23 hours.

[00:33:28] And I wanted that because that was what they all deserved.

[00:33:34] So we.

[00:33:36] So yeah, that's the downside but I'm sure we all know that's life.

[00:33:43] I was going to ask about about that how do how do you manage that process globally.

[00:33:49] We hear the horror stories of companies letting go people over zoom.

[00:33:55] And it's good to hear that story.

[00:33:59] How did I'm curious and I know you can't give too many details but how do employees, how did the employees take those conversations today actually respect the fact that you were having individual calls.

[00:34:14] Yeah, the job was.

[00:34:16] Yeah.

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:19] So, I've learned in these processes never expect anything because the people you would expect who would be very emotional or very, very.

[00:34:32] I don't know disconnected or anything like that it always turns out something different so I wouldn't.

[00:34:40] So I'm always going completely open minded in these conversations.

[00:34:45] Most of most of them very thankful to have this conversation because it was as well back in the days we all know this horror stories where even people would just receive an email with a color coding or anything like that so.

[00:35:05] I'm reading these stories in the news and I'm like, oh my goodness this is this is in human.

[00:35:13] So he made human.

[00:35:14] Yeah, exactly.

[00:35:16] So people were very not thankful but they were absolutely I had so many people saying oh my goodness gene what is the time for you that must be so late or so early.

[00:35:30] So there was more of their concern where we were like no we are here to absolutely speak about the terms and conditions as well and if you have questions and I'm here for, of course there has been tears there has been angry reactions.

[00:35:53] But I always as well my leaders who are in these calls as well.

[00:35:59] I was like this is a safe zone.

[00:36:03] Okay, they can do whatever if they throw their laptop out of the window let them be let them be if they scream if they this will be forgotten tomorrow because that's the most horrible day for them.

[00:36:18] We change their lives right now, right here we change completely change their lives.

[00:36:26] So yeah I'm very respectful what I love about the about that process gene is having the leaders on the call will help the next time they scale the next time they get in the mindset of getting over their skis and let's hire let's hire let's hire let's hire let's hire because they've been through the

[00:36:47] pain of being on these calls and having to look people in the eye and say, yeah, you know what, you're, you're great. This isn't a you thing this is this is us.

[00:36:58] Yeah, we over hired, and we now have to let you go.

[00:37:04] We have to separate and we'd love to keep you.

[00:37:07] Yeah.

[00:37:08] You know, and now I like that with because HR oftentimes here in the States HR does that by themselves.

[00:37:16] They do that quietly they do it you know is humane lay and all that other stuff, but they do it by themselves. And so the leaders don't get to learn. So the CFO basically says cut 10%.

[00:37:29] Well it's really easy because it's a spreadsheet to him.

[00:37:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:37:33] Right.

[00:37:34] Join the call with us and see that.

[00:37:37] I love that.

[00:37:38] Right. I haven't heard that before that's actually new for me to hear.

[00:37:41] Like, you know what we want to do a riff. Let's do a reduction force. Absolutely. You're going to be on every single call.

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:49] I think that's actually how we should do riffs.

[00:37:53] Here, I think that's a great best practice because then those leaders will think twice before about the scale part.

[00:38:02] Because they don't want to go through that stuff again.

[00:38:04] Exactly.

[00:38:05] Yeah.

[00:38:06] Yeah, that's genius.

[00:38:07] So,

[00:38:08] what advice would you give your.

[00:38:11] I'm sorry, there's a little bit of a delay on my side. What, what advice would you give your younger self?

[00:38:17] If you could go back in time.

[00:38:19] So let's say a 20 year old Jean.

[00:38:21] A 20 year.

[00:38:23] What advice would you give yourself?

[00:38:26] Random number by the way.

[00:38:29] What advice would give myself.

[00:38:34] So me as a person, I think this is what I never had to learn because I got this from my parents and the way I grew up.

[00:38:46] I never had any, any issue that I was not disciplined or not on time. And so that was that was always in my DNA, I would say, but

[00:39:01] I was very, so when I was 20 up until 30, I was, I was very shy. I was, I was always like, oh my goodness, when I say something, then maybe this is wrong or maybe someone will argue and then I don't have to write arguments argue back and all of that.

[00:39:21] I was holding me back. I was, I was actually in some of my teams. I worked back there. I was not really being part of it. I was always a little bit like, okay, I'm listening.

[00:39:35] I was great in execution. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I was doing the job. I was great in execution, but I think my 20 year old self should have been come on, say it, or all the other people only know so much as well.

[00:39:52] But for me, it was always overwhelming. They know it all. I know nothing. And I realized I learned this is baloney. No one knows everything. And so yeah, I hope that answers the questions. Yeah.

[00:40:11] I think it does. I think it does. I think that's a wonderful question to end on too.

[00:40:17] 100% story. Yeah. So Jean, thank you so much for taking some time to meet with us today. We really appreciate your story and I want to see the tech. I want to try this.

[00:40:30] I do too. No, no, no, no.

[00:40:32] We're going to have to talk about that.

[00:40:34] Yes, we will.

[00:40:35] Thank you so much.