From FBI Dreams to HR Excellence: Mariah Hantis on Global Payroll, Compliance, and Career Growth at Deel

[00:00:10] Hey, this is William Tincup and Ryan Leary. You are listening, hopefully watching the Practitioner Corner Podcast. We have Mariah on today. Mariah, how are you doing?

[00:00:18] Hello. Oh, I thought you said Ryan. I'm sorry.

[00:00:24] I usually do say that first. I just wanted to throw them off a little bit, and I did.

[00:00:31] There we go. First of all, Mariah, how are you doing?

[00:00:34] I'm doing well today. How are you?

[00:00:36] Okay. Now, Ryan, because it's needed, how are you doing?

[00:00:39] I'm good. I'm good.

[00:00:41] Better now?

[00:00:43] My bad.

[00:00:44] You're good. Mariah, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about you.

[00:00:49] Sure thing. Hello, everyone. My name is Mariah. I am from Deel. I am their Senior Director of Global People Operations, Payroll, and Benefits.

[00:00:59] Okay. Deel is D-E-L.

[00:01:02] D-E-E-L.

[00:01:05] Did I just put one E in there?

[00:01:06] Just one E.

[00:01:07] My bad. My bad. I was trying to teach people how to spell deal, and I couldn't spell it correctly. All right. I see where this is going already.

[00:01:14] This is going to be a show.

[00:01:15] This is going to be that show.

[00:01:17] So tell us a little bit about, okay, so people ops benefits and payroll, right?

[00:01:23] Yeah.

[00:01:23] So a lot of people would think core HR, and you also have people ops, which is a little bit different or can be in some companies a little bit different.

[00:01:30] So like day to day, what are you managing?

[00:01:32] So everything from post, think of after candidate signs or agrees verbally to an offer, it gets handed off to my team to create employment agreements, get them kicked off with their onboarding, get through all the compliance requirements as far as any health and safety trainings and tax documentation.

[00:01:54] So we're going to go over to payroll, make sure payroll is all set up benefits, benefit enrollment, benefit management, negotiating our open enrollment, ensuring we have benefit programs and plans.

[00:02:07] Of course, throughout all of that, we're managing all the queries we get from team members on what's happening, you know, what's changing, what questions they have on any day to day things going on.

[00:02:21] And this is, this is global.

[00:02:24] Global.

[00:02:24] This isn't just in New Jersey, right?

[00:02:26] So, so when you say offer letter gets signed, pre-boarding, onboarding, you might be pre-boarding somebody or onboarding somebody in Brazil.

[00:02:36] Absolutely.

[00:02:37] So we have currently just about 5,000 people in, I think we're at 110 countries currently.

[00:02:46] So yes, we're as global as we can get, not actually as we can get, I think we can get up to 150.

[00:02:52] So we're not quite there yet, but we're close.

[00:02:55] You'll, you'll be there next year.

[00:02:57] Yeah.

[00:02:58] You'll be there.

[00:02:58] Absolutely.

[00:02:59] Maybe by Q1.

[00:03:00] How much, how much of deals software that is D E E L two E's deal.

[00:03:10] How much of deal software do you use for your kind of your own, you know, your own clients?

[00:03:16] Like you, you use it for your clients that you add to deal, but how much do you use it for your own staff?

[00:03:23] We are drinking our own champagne every day.

[00:03:27] Um, so we are, you know, we do have mitigations for different workflows that are, you know, in spreadsheets and various things.

[00:03:34] But when you talk about our core business and like our core payroll operations, our core, um, HRS management, we're in our own platform.

[00:03:43] And I think that is the coolest part about, um, what I get to do every day, because not only am I doing HR as you know, I would do HR anywhere.

[00:03:51] Um, but I'm also building HR, um, uh, helping build out and be thoughtful about what businesses need, uh, and how we can curate that with our own experiences.

[00:04:04] Yeah. So before we jump into you, cause we're going to learn about your story, right?

[00:04:10] Yeah.

[00:04:11] That's where we're here today. How for, for, for the audience that's listening, who's probably in payroll, because why else would they listen to payroll? Right.

[00:04:20] What is different between global payroll and say, just, you know, domestic, well, domestic. Yes.

[00:04:28] But like a 200 person domestic, like what's the big difference? Yeah. I had no global versus domestic.

[00:04:35] Well, no, I don't think most people understand. No, I actually don't. I've looked at payroll libraries of three different domestic payroll companies and it's very intense.

[00:04:45] I don't think people understand how intense just to mess the four walls of us. Right.

[00:04:49] I don't think people have any idea how, how complicated that is.

[00:04:53] I mean, just us payroll alone is complicated.

[00:04:57] I call it our 50 mini countries.

[00:04:59] When we talk about if we are right,

[00:05:01] the deal is operating in all 50 states.

[00:05:03] So, um, it is like 50 mini countries.

[00:05:06] We're talking separate tax agencies and processes for, uh, each state,

[00:05:11] let alone when we talk about Ohio and Pennsylvania, our local taxes and all that.

[00:05:18] We can go down to just the town and how, uh,

[00:05:20] critical that is from a payroll processing and tax perspective.

[00:05:25] Um, so yeah, I think the, the companies out there who are,

[00:05:29] we talked domestic who are in their three states.

[00:05:32] Like if you're just in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, right.

[00:05:34] Branch out to all 50 states is a feat of its own, right.

[00:05:38] And then it requires a lot of training and compliance and understanding you down to

[00:05:43] what employment agreements are you offering?

[00:05:45] And then what are you, what rules from, uh, tax work wage and our classification

[00:05:51] perspective that you need to abide by?

[00:05:53] Because, you know, once you go over,

[00:05:55] especially when you go all the way over to California,

[00:05:58] very different subset of, of rules and regulations.

[00:06:01] Um, but when you look outside of the scope of the U S and you start going into Canada,

[00:06:07] and then you start going over to, to Europe, you know, it is, uh, quite a diverse and environment

[00:06:15] as far as like compliance regulations, payment cycles.

[00:06:19] Um, there's a lot you need to be mindful of.

[00:06:21] And I think it's underestimated with how much I think, you know, companies who get excited

[00:06:28] about going out there and wanting to branch out into new, um, countries get overwhelmed by how

[00:06:35] many requirements they have.

[00:06:37] And I think that that is the biggest risk some companies have is if you don't do all your research

[00:06:42] and you just jump into the deep end, um, you can get yourself into trouble, right.

[00:06:46] So we see a lot of times first employer starting out with like an employer of record, right.

[00:06:51] So, um, so that you can understand what their compliance requirements are, what the, the standard process,

[00:06:59] as far as payroll requirements timelines, um, go so that you can understand, is it right for me to set up my own entity?

[00:07:07] And what do I need to do in order to do that? Um, to limit the amount of risk that companies have.

[00:07:14] What's the strangest thing that you've seen from a global perspective or not, you know, just something that you never dealt with before, uh, in a different country.

[00:07:24] Strangest. That's a trick question. I feel like it's all, everything is different.

[00:07:28] It's all strange.

[00:07:30] It's all strange. Um, yeah, I don't know.

[00:07:34] It's, it's all strange. We, you know, the thing, like, I remember people talking to us, to Ryan and I about, you've got to, with domestic payroll.

[00:07:43] So true of global, you've got to be on top of it. You gotta be working with a company that stays on top of it so that it becomes their DNA.

[00:07:52] Yeah. It's quite, uh, overwhelming when you are operating at such a global stage, but we're fortunate enough to have tools like AI to have at deal specifically local country teams, um, that built are built out to service our customers that we get to leverage internally as well.

[00:08:09] Um, that is extremely helpful to understand what these nuances are, what these updates are.

[00:08:15] I'd say going back to thinking of kind of the strangest thing.

[00:08:21] Um, it's domestic, but as far as like in the U S but I, I just don't get the final payout rules.

[00:08:29] Um, that I just wish that if they are going to exist and they standardize it, please never have, please.

[00:08:39] Well, California is its own nightmare. Uh, and, and I mean, when SHRM, this is a hundred years ago, HCI actually did certifications.

[00:08:49] They did, they had, they still do that a certification for everyone else, the other 49 states and territories.

[00:08:56] And they had one specific to California, California.

[00:09:00] California HRLO is that different.

[00:09:02] You know, I find everything in California fascinating because I don't live there.

[00:09:06] Yeah.

[00:09:07] You know, I, and I don't have to practice HR there.

[00:09:10] I can't, I can't imagine practicing HR in California.

[00:09:14] The silver lining though, is if you can practice HR in California and you know, all of those rules, you can do it at least almost anywhere in the U S you'd say the same about if you can do it in France, you can do it in, you know, anywhere in Europe and so forth.

[00:09:28] But, uh, California is that gold standard as far as, you know, requirements go.

[00:09:33] So yeah, that's advice we should give people young in their HR career.

[00:09:38] Go there, go to California.

[00:09:40] Okay.

[00:09:40] Go to California.

[00:09:41] Do your bit, do your, do your bit.

[00:09:44] And then everything else will be easier.

[00:09:46] Yes.

[00:09:46] Wherever you go after that.

[00:09:48] That's just, that's the hardest thing that you'll do.

[00:09:50] Everything else becomes easier.

[00:09:52] Absolutely.

[00:09:56] Hi, I'm George LaRock and I'm looking forward to exploring the critical trends shaping the future of work and technology with you over on the work tech podcast.

[00:10:05] Now this podcast is a little different.

[00:10:06] I bring together industry leaders, innovators, and investors, and we go deep into market intelligence that matters to HR pros and tech providers alike.

[00:10:16] So give the work tech podcast a listen here on the work to find podcast network, and please subscribe if you like it.

[00:10:23] See you there.

[00:10:27] Ryan, you want to go backwards?

[00:10:29] Can you talk a little bit about Mariah's career?

[00:10:30] Yeah, I want to know, Mariah, how, how you, how you get into this?

[00:10:33] How did you get into payroll and HR?

[00:10:36] I mean, nobody, I should say, actually, I shouldn't say nobody.

[00:10:39] Because they do offer HR degrees.

[00:10:42] Yes, they do.

[00:10:43] And people do go to school to be, they don't go to school to be a recruiter.

[00:10:47] I'll say that.

[00:10:48] They go to school to come out.

[00:10:49] That's a good point.

[00:10:49] And they do HR.

[00:10:50] Yeah.

[00:10:51] How did you get into this?

[00:10:52] What was the, what was the dream way back when?

[00:10:55] So the dream had nothing to do with HR.

[00:10:58] No.

[00:10:59] Hey, we, Mariah, in the 40 shows that we've done.

[00:11:03] I don't know where to go now.

[00:11:04] I remember we've had two people that have said the dream was HR.

[00:11:08] Yeah.

[00:11:09] And Ryan and I are both like stumped.

[00:11:11] Like, what?

[00:11:12] They lost all credibility.

[00:11:14] I mean, I knew at a certain point, but I did not know.

[00:11:18] Oh yeah.

[00:11:19] We've had two, only two.

[00:11:21] But we can point to you.

[00:11:22] Like literally, Ryan, you can see the shock on our faces afterwards.

[00:11:26] We're like, huh, wow.

[00:11:28] That was the, that was.

[00:11:29] Didn't expect that to happen.

[00:11:31] Yeah.

[00:11:31] Yeah.

[00:11:32] Yeah.

[00:11:33] So, so HR wasn't your dream.

[00:11:35] What was the journey?

[00:11:36] It was not.

[00:11:37] Oh, I had so many.

[00:11:38] Gosh, it went from F.

[00:11:39] I wanted to be an FBI agent.

[00:11:41] Yeah.

[00:11:42] Really cool.

[00:11:43] Like really cool stuff.

[00:11:44] Oh yeah.

[00:11:45] But I ended up doing something cooler, which is HR.

[00:11:49] So, so I wanted to, I originally went to school for accounting.

[00:11:52] So I wanted to be an accountant.

[00:11:55] I went to school, spent some time at various colleges.

[00:11:58] Um, some in the, in the city.

[00:12:00] Um, and for some reason I just saw like everyone commuting on the train in their suits every day.

[00:12:08] Yep.

[00:12:08] As I was going to school and something about that, I was like, Hmm, I don't know if I want

[00:12:13] that to be me.

[00:12:13] So I was like, let's be a teacher.

[00:12:16] I want to be a teacher.

[00:12:17] So I went to school to be a teacher.

[00:12:19] There you go.

[00:12:19] Um.

[00:12:19] The commute shorter.

[00:12:21] Got it.

[00:12:21] The commute shorter.

[00:12:23] Um, I have, I'm a history buff.

[00:12:27] So yeah.

[00:12:27] School for secondary ed and history.

[00:12:29] And that's actually what I got my degree in.

[00:12:31] Um, I have my associates in, in business administration, my, um, bachelors in history and secondary ed.

[00:12:38] Um, I never actually taught though.

[00:12:42] So interestingly enough, landed myself an opportunity at a local board of education doing HR payroll

[00:12:50] administration.

[00:12:51] So how the two came out of school into HR.

[00:12:56] I got so many questions.

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:58] Because really, no, no, it's actually, it all makes the careers for me.

[00:13:04] Mariah always makes sense in the rear view mirror.

[00:13:08] Like it all way, all the steps, all the pro like, it all makes sense.

[00:13:11] Cause so the FBI thing, that's your, that's the skill that you need as an investigator when

[00:13:18] you have to do investigations.

[00:13:20] So you get to scratch that itch in a way to like the, you know, sexual harassment claim

[00:13:26] or other types of investigations that you gotta be a part of.

[00:13:29] You get to investigate.

[00:13:31] Accounting.

[00:13:31] When you did, when you got into accounting, you're not afraid of the numbers.

[00:13:37] Teaching makes sense because employees are children.

[00:13:42] So like it all makes sense to me.

[00:13:45] Really?

[00:13:46] This is like, it was like a therapy session.

[00:13:48] I didn't know.

[00:13:48] No, no, no.

[00:13:49] I didn't know.

[00:13:50] Dude, it totally makes sense to me.

[00:13:52] When you said, and then I went here, I'm like, well, of course.

[00:13:56] Yeah.

[00:13:56] Tracks.

[00:13:57] Definitely all the, all the pieces connect.

[00:14:00] And, and yeah, I mean, I thought, I always thought it was super cool that I landed at a

[00:14:04] board of education doing payroll.

[00:14:06] I'm like how these like my business and, and accounting, then like teaching, even though

[00:14:10] I wasn't teaching, but it just all landed in the same kind of realm.

[00:14:14] And, uh, from there I spent a few years there and I'll never forget the boss that I had at

[00:14:20] the time was like you, when I had, it was presented with a new opportunity.

[00:14:23] That was when I moved over to, um, uh, B2B marketing space.

[00:14:28] They were, I was talking to her about like this new opportunity and what should I do?

[00:14:33] And she was like, you are going to be bored here.

[00:14:35] Like, this is just not your flow.

[00:14:39] Like you've already got out of us everything you're going to get out of us.

[00:14:43] A board of education.

[00:14:45] Like it was like, it gave you job security.

[00:14:49] It was like, you know, all of the things, but it was not like my work style.

[00:14:55] Right.

[00:14:55] I was after the chase.

[00:14:56] I wanted to build things.

[00:14:58] I wanted to change things.

[00:14:59] I wanted to do.

[00:15:00] Oh, they probably got frustrated with you too.

[00:15:02] Yeah.

[00:15:03] They're like, get out of here.

[00:15:04] Like you stop coming in the office.

[00:15:06] No, because you're, you want to innovate.

[00:15:08] You've been to a conference, you walked away, went to a webinar and you're like, oh man,

[00:15:11] we could do this.

[00:15:12] And they're like, Hey, stop, stop all that.

[00:15:15] Look at what we can do to actually educate the students and pay people on time.

[00:15:19] No, we don't want to do that.

[00:15:20] Well, the fact that you learned how to teach is to me important because whether or not you

[00:15:28] were in a classroom or not, it doesn't really make a difference.

[00:15:30] Once you learned the fundamentals of how to carry a topic and get it into, into people's

[00:15:35] minds and get them interested, which again, how much of those skills, if you go back and

[00:15:40] look at the classes that you took, how much of those skills that you use today?

[00:15:44] Yeah.

[00:15:45] I mean, just even just the different learning styles.

[00:15:47] It's so helpful to understand that people learn differently.

[00:15:49] They receive information differently, you know, and it's an important skill to carry

[00:15:55] for everyone outside of HR too.

[00:15:58] Did she say B2B marketing, right?

[00:16:00] Yeah.

[00:16:01] I wanted to go, yeah.

[00:16:02] And I'm assuming that's where we're going.

[00:16:04] But so you left the board of education and you jumped into a marketing job.

[00:16:09] Reluctantly left.

[00:16:10] Sorry.

[00:16:10] Yeah.

[00:16:10] It was a B2B marketing company and I did their payroll there.

[00:16:15] Um, I did not go into a marketing career, but I stuck with payroll.

[00:16:20] Once I was in, I was in, I was committed and I haven't left.

[00:16:23] Um, but yes, we did a payroll and benefits there that, uh, scope expanded into total rewards.

[00:16:31] I was there for four years.

[00:16:32] Um, so the company there grew from just under 100 to about 200 people, um, in the four years

[00:16:40] that I was there.

[00:16:41] A lot of compliance comes in at a certain point in California.

[00:16:45] So that was, oh boy, my first run of that.

[00:16:51] Did you have to put up posters?

[00:16:53] Did you ever have to put up posters?

[00:16:55] We were in the office.

[00:16:56] Wasn't that the funniest?

[00:16:57] Like, like the break room.

[00:16:59] It's like, I remember pinning up posters in the break room.

[00:17:02] Like nobody's going to look at this stuff.

[00:17:03] They don't care.

[00:17:04] It was like suggestion box.

[00:17:06] Exactly.

[00:17:07] That nobody ever used or saw.

[00:17:09] I, I did a, I did a suggestion.

[00:17:11] This is funny.

[00:17:12] I did a suggestion box once I made it.

[00:17:14] I made it out of wood and painted it the whole bit.

[00:17:17] It didn't have a bottom.

[00:17:20] Did it sit on the trash can?

[00:17:22] No, I just wanted to see how many people would put something in it.

[00:17:26] There was no bottom.

[00:17:27] Yeah.

[00:17:27] Cause I, I'm like, no one's ever going to put anything in here.

[00:17:30] If they want to suggest something, they're just going to come to my office or somebody's

[00:17:34] office.

[00:17:34] They're just going to walk down and go, Hey, we should do this.

[00:17:37] Like, all right, yeah, we'll do that.

[00:17:38] But I do remember pinning up posters.

[00:17:41] Oh yes.

[00:17:42] All of those compliance posters and all that safety and all that stuff.

[00:17:46] You know, that would actually be a really cool prank gift for an office.

[00:17:50] Just like a trash can with a suggestion box on it.

[00:17:54] And that's the lid.

[00:17:56] You throw everything right through there.

[00:17:57] Oh yeah.

[00:17:58] Your suggestion.

[00:17:59] That's where it went.

[00:18:00] Yeah.

[00:18:01] Yeah.

[00:18:02] Mariah can run all the finances and payroll for us.

[00:18:05] 100%.

[00:18:05] We'll build it.

[00:18:06] I know.

[00:18:06] I noticed, and I, and this is actually a theme through a lot of practitioners careers

[00:18:10] is you started with payroll, you got benefits.

[00:18:13] And then all of a sudden then companies growing, you get total rewards.

[00:18:17] Like it's, you just start getting, especially if you're competent, right?

[00:18:20] You just start getting more and more people are like, Hey, who can do compensation?

[00:18:25] Mariah can.

[00:18:26] She knows numbers.

[00:18:28] Okay, great.

[00:18:29] It's absolutely a catch all space.

[00:18:32] Uh, and I, I, we've seen this at deal, right?

[00:18:36] Like in the startup space, as you just kind of learn.

[00:18:40] And as the company is evolving and growing, there's just all these needs that show up and

[00:18:44] you're just like, well, we need to see what our needs are first.

[00:18:46] We need to explore what that is.

[00:18:48] So I guess I'll do it.

[00:18:49] And then it's like, I'm still doing it.

[00:18:50] And I was gonna, I was gonna do it for like a month.

[00:18:55] And, uh, now I own it.

[00:18:58] And now they've given me employees.

[00:19:00] Great.

[00:19:00] So it looks like I'm gonna own it for a while.

[00:19:02] All right.

[00:19:03] Yeah.

[00:19:04] Hi there.

[00:19:04] I'm Peter Zollman.

[00:19:06] I'm a cohost of the inside job boards and recruitment marketplaces podcast.

[00:19:11] And I'm Steven Rothberg.

[00:19:12] And I guess that makes me the other cohost.

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[00:19:18] We analyze news about general niche and aggregator job board and recruitment marketplaces sites.

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[00:19:28] Question for you, Mariah on William and I talk about this all we make jokes about this all the time.

[00:19:34] We're like payroll.

[00:19:35] Like you can't mess up payroll.

[00:19:37] Right.

[00:19:38] So I'm curious.

[00:19:39] So you, so now you're in your second, this is your second stint in payroll.

[00:19:42] Yep.

[00:19:43] Right.

[00:19:43] You're expanding from a hundred to 200 and, you know, I'm assuming you're, you're growing

[00:19:47] more and you're moving on.

[00:19:49] What's the anxiety level?

[00:19:52] payroll week, payroll day.

[00:19:55] Right.

[00:19:55] You're hitting without software, you know, or advanced technology at that point.

[00:20:00] You're hitting the button.

[00:20:01] Like how, like what's the anxiety level for you?

[00:20:06] It's, I think the anxiety for me hits the morning 3am on a day.

[00:20:12] Right.

[00:20:12] Right.

[00:20:13] Right.

[00:20:13] Because I want to say that I'm confident enough and in teams that I've had to help run, you

[00:20:18] know, process the payroll, you're confident and competent enough to know that we've done

[00:20:23] the job.

[00:20:24] Well, the question happens of when we press that button and we did all the things, did

[00:20:29] it work?

[00:20:30] And so 3am I, it hasn't been probably until recently.

[00:20:35] And sometimes I still wake up at 3am on payday.

[00:20:38] It is like a tick to just make sure that it worked because if it worked for me, I'm like,

[00:20:44] okay, it works for everybody else.

[00:20:45] But yeah, I think that's where the stressing and anxiety comes in when that doesn't happen.

[00:20:50] And it has happened where it, nothing came through 3am.

[00:20:54] When I, when I was doing, when I ran companies and I had employees, I would do payroll on Thursdays.

[00:21:01] So I get everything set up in whatever system we'd use.

[00:21:04] I get everything set up and then I'd come in on Friday and I go back through it and run

[00:21:10] payroll.

[00:21:11] But I, it was, you know, small enough companies, 100, 150 employees where I would tell people

[00:21:17] if there's a problem, no, when there's a problem.

[00:21:21] Like I, I tell them, Hey man, listen, I'm doing my best, but I'm not like an expert at

[00:21:25] any of this stuff.

[00:21:26] So if something's wrong, check it back then when we had pay slips, check your pay slip.

[00:21:31] If something's wrong, like your PTO or whatever is not right, just, just come and tell me, like,

[00:21:36] we'll get it right.

[00:21:37] I'll make it right.

[00:21:39] But to Ryan's point, a lot of people don't have that latitude.

[00:21:42] It's like, it's gotta be right.

[00:21:44] Yeah.

[00:21:45] And, but the good, the, that is one of the saving graces of payroll is like, yes, there

[00:21:50] is a hundred percent pressure.

[00:21:52] This is someone is on the receiving end that needs to pay a bill and has, you know, life,

[00:21:57] right?

[00:21:57] This is what people work for, for the majority of people.

[00:22:01] Right.

[00:22:01] Um, so yes, there is that, that, um, OKR that we have 100% on time, accurate payroll.

[00:22:09] It's not 99%, not 99.9.

[00:22:13] It is 100%.

[00:22:14] Problem is we're human.

[00:22:16] Right.

[00:22:16] And with that, even if we were to go completely automated, still computers aren't perfect.

[00:22:21] And like, there will be errors at some point, whether it was a tax that wasn't calculated

[00:22:26] correctly or, you know, uh, a local wasn't added.

[00:22:30] Those are things that happen, but can be fixed.

[00:22:33] Um, and I think that as long as you are transparent, um, and you have the proper tools in place

[00:22:39] to ensure that you're going back and you're reconciling and you're checking so that ideally

[00:22:43] you can be the person that says, Hey, William, I made a mistake on your paycheck and I've already

[00:22:49] done an off cycle and sent you, you know, correct it.

[00:22:52] Um, and I think those are the important things because those are the people skills.

[00:22:56] Those are the people skills that are needed in payroll.

[00:22:58] Um, yes, you gotta be good at numbers and you have to.

[00:23:00] You know, you're not always behind the scenes.

[00:23:02] You're just as much behind the scenes, running the numbers as you are confronting someone

[00:23:06] about a sensitive matter, like their pay.

[00:23:10] The hardest, the hardest thing that I had when I had payroll was bonuses in Texas.

[00:23:17] Back then bonuses were treated differently, taxed differently than, than regular payroll.

[00:23:22] And conveying that to salespeople was very difficult.

[00:23:29] Like getting them to understand, okay, here's wages and here's bonuses.

[00:23:33] They're treated differently by the government and the state and they're taxed differently.

[00:23:38] And so like getting them to understand that, like, it was like a speaking Mandarin.

[00:23:43] Yeah.

[00:23:43] Like they just understand, they didn't understand.

[00:23:46] I'm like, okay, I'll go through it again.

[00:23:47] Okay.

[00:23:48] Here's what's going on.

[00:23:49] Here's why, here's why it's important.

[00:23:50] And here's why it's important for you.

[00:23:52] Cause you're going to get these bonuses based on quota and it's going to come through differently.

[00:23:58] And so you should plan for that.

[00:24:00] And it's like, that was the hardest.

[00:24:02] I think that at the time that was my hardest challenge was communicating to salespeople.

[00:24:07] Yeah.

[00:24:08] The differences.

[00:24:10] All of that.

[00:24:11] Plus the most recently too, like the tax form change, I think was the 2020, like under having

[00:24:17] people understand, like it's no longer single, zero married.

[00:24:19] Right.

[00:24:20] It is all of these crazy numbers that we have to put on this, uh, form and going through

[00:24:25] and explaining it.

[00:24:26] And it, you walk a delicate line of between explaining what this is and advising, which

[00:24:33] we have to steer away from.

[00:24:35] So, um, it makes it like, you want to be this, um, role where you can come, people can come

[00:24:41] to you and you can talk through these things, but also like, I'm not telling you what to

[00:24:45] do.

[00:24:45] I'm not advising you what to do, but you know, these are, these are the changes.

[00:24:49] Here are the resources that you can use.

[00:24:51] This is what is most closely aligned to what you had elected previously.

[00:24:55] Um, so that you can be a resource for, you know, this is for us.

[00:24:59] We do this every day.

[00:25:00] So it's like, this is a W, this is a W four.

[00:25:03] This is what you have to do.

[00:25:05] Um, but to them, they're doing this.

[00:25:06] When you think about it, if I wasn't in payroll, how many times would I have completed

[00:25:10] a W four?

[00:25:12] Five?

[00:25:13] Maybe.

[00:25:14] Yeah.

[00:25:15] Maybe.

[00:25:17] So the, one of the things I wanted to ask you about is your communications.

[00:25:23] Like you said, you're not, you know, we're not, we're not hidden.

[00:25:26] We're talking to people.

[00:25:27] We're constantly answering questions and also, you know, getting in front of things that are

[00:25:31] coming down the pike.

[00:25:32] That's true of payroll, but it's also true in your case of benefits too.

[00:25:36] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:25:38] So what's the most challenging part for you?

[00:25:42] Good God, we're writing in an open enrollment too.

[00:25:44] This is great.

[00:25:45] Great timing.

[00:25:46] I know.

[00:25:46] We're keeping her.

[00:25:47] She should probably go get stuff done.

[00:25:50] Oh yeah.

[00:25:50] She's got a list.

[00:25:51] What's the most difficult part of open enrollment, more or less the communication of what's coming,

[00:25:58] what's what they have available to them.

[00:26:00] So I think it, this will vary based on what the outcome is of whatever your renewal looked

[00:26:06] like.

[00:26:06] You know, sometimes companies have to make hard decisions to, to change up benefits based

[00:26:11] on costs, um, take away things, change carriers.

[00:26:14] And that has direct impacts on, um, on employees, right.

[00:26:19] That are like, Oh, I've had this specific condition.

[00:26:22] I go to the specific doctor and now they're not in network in, you know, under this new insurance.

[00:26:27] And those are real problems that happen.

[00:26:30] Um, you've been fortunate enough not to have to go through so many changes, um, like that.

[00:26:35] Um, but I'd say like the hardest part is like insurance is one of those things, just

[00:26:39] like payroll.

[00:26:40] It's hard to understand.

[00:26:42] It's hard to understand what a deductible is, what an out of pocket maximum is, what a

[00:26:46] copay is and when you have to pay it and why you have to pay it.

[00:26:49] Uh, people are like, what's the point of insurance if I have to still pay every time

[00:26:53] I come to the doctor?

[00:26:54] I'm like, trust me.

[00:26:54] I still ask that question.

[00:26:56] A hundred percent.

[00:26:57] You pay so much more.

[00:26:58] I promise.

[00:26:59] I know.

[00:27:00] I know.

[00:27:01] That, that in every year, like insurance never goes down, right?

[00:27:05] No.

[00:27:05] We have a running joke.

[00:27:07] I said never gets in life.

[00:27:09] I said never gets better.

[00:27:11] Insurance never goes down.

[00:27:13] Never.

[00:27:14] Never.

[00:27:14] Like they were predicting, I think for this year, 11 to 12% increase.

[00:27:18] Yeah.

[00:27:19] And some of that's due to the GLPs, the, uh, the drugs that, uh, that people use for diabetes

[00:27:26] and weight loss and things like that.

[00:27:28] So, so some of that is, you know, pharma, uh, related.

[00:27:34] And some of that is, I just don't think we're ever going to hit a year where people are like,

[00:27:38] Oh snap.

[00:27:40] Benefits went down 20%.

[00:27:42] No.

[00:27:43] Or insurance went down 20%.

[00:27:44] It's like, that's never going to happen.

[00:27:46] No, unfortunately, I don't think that will be the case.

[00:27:49] And it's like communicating that to employees.

[00:27:51] It's like this, it goes up higher than the cost of living.

[00:27:54] Right.

[00:27:54] Every year.

[00:27:55] And they want the coverage, right?

[00:27:57] And we want to provide that to them.

[00:27:59] So like when, when we talk about things like, Oh, I want orthodontic coverage, or I want

[00:28:03] fertility coverage, all of that costs money, every single thing that we add.

[00:28:07] So when we want to do one good thing, right, it costs us X percent more.

[00:28:11] And like, the question is how much can a business, um, absorb and how much do we have to pass

[00:28:17] down and what's the value add for how many people that we're looking to cover?

[00:28:21] Um, so I think that those conversations are, are definitely hard.

[00:28:25] I think it's all about positioning your, your comms and ensuring that, you know, you're,

[00:28:29] you're touching upon the good things that are coming with the plan and the reasons why

[00:28:33] and where you tried to minimize costs and impact, um, wherever possible.

[00:28:38] I think one of the more challenging things is actually getting people to complete their

[00:28:42] open enrollment.

[00:28:43] Oh, a hundred percent.

[00:28:43] Always.

[00:28:44] You gotta tie it to like payroll or something like you can't get your paycheck until this

[00:28:48] filled out.

[00:28:49] Sorry.

[00:28:49] Yeah.

[00:28:50] I think, you know, some, some, I saw some process that has been better with open enrollment,

[00:28:57] but historically it has been so bad that people push it until the last minute.

[00:29:02] It's like writing a research paper.

[00:29:04] Nobody really, truly, well, maybe some people, I don't want to write a research paper.

[00:29:09] And so I've always waited to the last, to the last minute.

[00:29:12] And I think that that's open enrollment for me.

[00:29:15] Even, even, I don't even have to enroll.

[00:29:17] I just have to click.

[00:29:18] I think AI is going to make this.

[00:29:20] I actually, I'm not a big AI like, Oh my God, AI is going to change everything.

[00:29:24] Can't wait.

[00:29:25] Yeah.

[00:29:26] But I do believe it's going to demystify insurance in the way of being able to run it

[00:29:31] through and go put this in English and tell me what, what does it actually mean?

[00:29:37] Yeah.

[00:29:37] I do believe that's actually going to be helpful.

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:41] It's so, so hard to understand all.

[00:29:43] So if I just walked one, went into my open enrollment and said deductible, do you want

[00:29:48] the $500 deductible plan?

[00:29:50] The no deductible plan.

[00:29:51] And I want to just that AI summary of what that would mean for me as far.

[00:29:55] And I wanted to take all of my costs that I spent in the prior year and tell me what

[00:29:59] would make sense.

[00:30:00] Choose your own adventure.

[00:30:01] Yeah.

[00:30:02] Just look at it and tell me what to do.

[00:30:04] Mariah, what trends are you seeing coming forward in payroll?

[00:30:10] Trends?

[00:30:11] I'd say from like a support perspective, AI for sure.

[00:30:17] I think, I don't think AI will ever take over payroll completely.

[00:30:21] Right.

[00:30:21] It is a human service that is needed at some point during the process.

[00:30:27] But it can answer questions.

[00:30:28] Right.

[00:30:29] Yeah.

[00:30:29] And I think like we get a lot of those, like where can I find my pay slip?

[00:30:32] What does this tax mean?

[00:30:34] Right.

[00:30:34] There's so many questions that we have actual humans answering now that could potentially

[00:30:38] be replaced by AI, which is helpful because those humans who are answering questions can

[00:30:42] be doing a lot more meaningful work.

[00:30:45] You know, whether it's servicing clients, if you're running payroll for clients or whether

[00:30:49] it's, you know, building, you know, more efficient processes and policies for payroll.

[00:30:56] But I think that it is something that can be explored more from a support perspective of how you can

[00:31:03] utilize that.

[00:31:04] Streamline self-service with AI.

[00:31:06] I think, I think employees appreciate that too.

[00:31:08] Like they want answers quick.

[00:31:10] Yeah.

[00:31:11] You just want to type.

[00:31:11] Like in the morning in Indiana.

[00:31:13] Right.

[00:31:13] You want to be able to answer, ask a question.

[00:31:15] Yeah.

[00:31:15] Yeah.

[00:31:15] What are you doing on your phone?

[00:31:16] You're always just Googling getting an answer right away.

[00:31:18] And I think that there will be some level of duty to employers to make that a service

[00:31:27] for employees.

[00:31:27] Right.

[00:31:28] So that I can provide the workers with answers quickly.

[00:31:33] Not just like on your internet with like you have these pre-built frequently asked questions.

[00:31:37] I don't believe any of the FAQs are real questions that employees ask.

[00:31:42] I believe that we create those to make ourselves feel better.

[00:31:45] That was somebody in the office like, here, here it is.

[00:31:48] Of course they're going to want to know.

[00:31:50] Here's the question.

[00:31:51] Here's the answer.

[00:31:52] I'm like, yeah, that's bullshit.

[00:31:53] Yeah.

[00:31:54] They're not going to ask that question.

[00:31:55] Yeah.

[00:31:55] Ryan, you're going to laugh at me.

[00:31:57] So the second company I ran, 25 employees, everybody's under the age of 25.

[00:32:03] So young company.

[00:32:04] I had a benefits broker that I'd worked with.

[00:32:06] So I came in one day, this is probably in October.

[00:32:10] So I said, listen, here's the deal.

[00:32:12] We're going to get benefits.

[00:32:13] They're going to start January 1st.

[00:32:15] I want you to look at this two ways.

[00:32:17] We can do fewer benefits and the company will cover everything.

[00:32:22] So a hundred percent coverage for you and your family.

[00:32:25] Or we can do a lot of benefits, but you're going to take, it's going to be 50, 50.

[00:32:30] Company will cover half.

[00:32:31] You'll cover half.

[00:32:33] And because it was a young company, younger employees, they were like, I don't want to pay anything.

[00:32:41] I don't, I don't, when I go to the pharmacy, I want, I just want to pick up something and leave.

[00:32:46] And it was the easiest thing because of the age group, but also like where they were.

[00:32:54] Nobody had kids.

[00:32:55] Like everybody was at kind of a very similar spot.

[00:32:57] So I did that.

[00:32:59] I did that actually for three years.

[00:33:01] And then it got so expensive.

[00:33:03] I'm like, okay.

[00:33:04] And then everything changed.

[00:33:05] Right.

[00:33:05] Demographics changed.

[00:33:06] Yeah.

[00:33:07] Demographics changed.

[00:33:08] And, and so it got, you know, it got, and of course it got more expensive.

[00:33:13] Advice that you would give your younger self.

[00:33:16] What advice would you give Mariah of 17 years old?

[00:33:23] Hmm.

[00:33:24] I don't know.

[00:33:24] I'd say continue to take risks.

[00:33:26] I think risks are important.

[00:33:28] Um, and to, you know, not settle, like to always chase something if you want it.

[00:33:35] Uh, you don't have to be complacent in anything really.

[00:33:39] Um, but when we specifically talk about careers, you don't need to have it all figured out at 18,

[00:33:45] at your graduation, and you don't need to know exactly where you're going.

[00:33:48] I changed colleges.

[00:33:50] Uh, I went to county college.

[00:33:52] I went to, um, to secondary college, right before your universities after that.

[00:33:59] And like, that's fine.

[00:34:00] There's no stigma.

[00:34:01] There should, there is a stigma around it.

[00:34:03] I think, or at least there was, uh, and it's fine.

[00:34:07] You don't have it figured out.

[00:34:08] And like your trial and error life is a trial and error, a big trial and error.

[00:34:13] Like you just have to go through it.

[00:34:15] Take the risk.

[00:34:16] Um, because you know, the rewards are great.

[00:34:19] Yeah.

[00:34:19] Oh, I love that.

[00:34:21] Yeah.

[00:34:21] Brian, what do you got?

[00:34:23] I don't know about you, but I don't know very many people that are hopeful about the world of work.

[00:34:30] And I'd like to change that.

[00:34:31] My name is Marcus Mossberger and I started the hope at work podcast where you'll find two things.

[00:34:37] Number one, really interesting guests.

[00:34:39] And number two, innovative ideas about the future of work.

[00:34:44] Check it out.

[00:34:44] Final question for me, Mariah.

[00:34:47] Would you have done anything differently career wise?

[00:34:52] Would you coming out and getting into, into, um, I guess into, I'll say HR or payroll.

[00:35:00] Would you have chose something different now that you know what, you know?

[00:35:04] Hmm.

[00:35:05] I don't know.

[00:35:06] I don't, we won't show this to deal.

[00:35:08] Don't worry.

[00:35:08] No, no, yeah.

[00:35:09] I sometimes wonder.

[00:35:11] People ops.

[00:35:12] I sometimes wonder what it would have been like to be an FBI agent.

[00:35:16] Yeah.

[00:35:17] Fair.

[00:35:18] Sometimes maybe, I don't know how I do on the physical test these days, but.

[00:35:22] FBI.

[00:35:24] But no, I don't think I would do anything differently.

[00:35:26] I do think that there are, and I mean that wholeheartedly, I think I ended up where I was supposed to end up.

[00:35:33] I think I'm doing the work that I am supposed to do and that I matches my skill set.

[00:35:39] I think it's just finding the right companies to work for.

[00:35:42] And like deal is a perfect place for me.

[00:35:43] Always moving and shaking.

[00:35:45] And it's like what my boss 10 years ago told me to chase.

[00:35:49] So I'm in the right place at the right time.

[00:35:52] And yeah, I wouldn't do anything different.

[00:35:55] So the winter months, historically, because you're a history buff, you understand this.

[00:36:00] The winter months are when we reflect.

[00:36:02] And the reflection can be on 24.

[00:36:05] You can also in some ways be looking forward to 25.

[00:36:09] So let's do the 25 part.

[00:36:11] What are you most looking forward to in 2025?

[00:36:16] Career wise.

[00:36:17] Career wise.

[00:36:18] I'm looking forward to see how.

[00:36:23] Deal is going to go through some explosive growth in the next year.

[00:36:26] And I'm looking forward to see like what that brings from just all of the changes.

[00:36:30] Looking back even two and a half years.

[00:36:33] I know we weren't looking back.

[00:36:34] We're looking forward.

[00:36:35] But to look forward, we got to look back.

[00:36:36] Right.

[00:36:37] Looking back to two and a half years ago when I started at Deal, like my role was nothing what it is now.

[00:36:42] So I'm curious to see like with all of the evolving growth and trajectory of Deal, what does that mean for how people ops will scale and what payroll looks like and what benefits will look like.

[00:36:55] Yeah, I'm excited.

[00:36:57] They're either going to give you more or they're going to silo you and say, listen, you do people ops.

[00:37:03] We got somebody that's a specialist.

[00:37:04] They're going to do these other things.

[00:37:06] So I can see the chaos of that being fun actually.

[00:37:10] Yeah.

[00:37:10] I love it.

[00:37:10] Because it's like, you know what?

[00:37:12] When we talk to her next, Ryan, she's going to be CHRO.

[00:37:15] You know that, right?

[00:37:16] Like this is the pathway.

[00:37:17] There is a high potential of that.

[00:37:19] Yes.

[00:37:19] Yeah.

[00:37:20] All right.

[00:37:21] Ryan, this has been fantastic.

[00:37:22] Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story and talking to us about Deal.

[00:37:27] Thank you so much for having me.

[00:37:28] It was so fun to sit with you guys.

[00:37:30] Absolutely.

[00:37:31] And thanks to the audience.

[00:37:31] We appreciate you.