10exa's and Inspiring Teams to Achieve Greatness with Lisa Sterling, Chief People Officer at Perceptix

[00:00:00] even though they're visionaries and know where they're going to go, they don't lead with their head. They lead with their heart first and that to me is what truly makes an organization special from a people perspective.

[00:00:12] It's almost the I don't care attitude and they just do it because it's right for them. And it's what they visioned and they just you're either on your your coming with me for the ride or your or your not.

[00:00:29] Yeah, I mean, I remember so William when you say cold like that's essentially what you were there. You weren't yeah and those at war and got off the train pretty quick.

[00:00:42] All right. I want to talk to you for a moment about retaining and developing your workforce is hard recruiting is hard retaining top employees is hard. Then you've got onboarding payroll benefits time and labor management.

[00:00:55] You need to take care of your workforce and you can only do this successfully if you commit to transforming your employee experience.

[00:01:04] This is where I saw comes in they empower you to be successful. We've seen it with a number of companies that we've worked with and this is why we partner with them here at work defined.

[00:01:15] We trust them and you should too check them out at I solved HCM dot com.

[00:01:25] Hey, this is William to get in line.

[00:01:27] And you are on the practice years corner. Thank you for joining us Lisa.

[00:01:33] I can't wait for us to get into your story because I've known you along at different points in your journey, but I don't know your journey.

[00:01:41] So let's do this. Let's do first of all introduce yourself and your current company.

[00:01:46] Absolutely. So yes, as you said, I'm Lisa Sterling. I am the chief people officer at Perceptics, which is a really fun company to be the CHRO or CPO at because everything we do is about the employee experience. It's about employee listening. It's about activation of data.

[00:02:05] It's about listening with intent. And that's kind of what you're supposed to do as a CHRO right is listen to your people.

[00:02:14] You and these B you see an HR leader at HR technology companies, what's going on?

[00:02:20] Man, I you know, I'm a big believer in really not just believing in but being passionate about the product or service that the organization I work for delivers.

[00:02:33] And I also believe in drinking your own champagne and so I am a huge believer.

[00:02:37] And I want to work for a company that I not only am passionate about their products and services, but they can make my life better. And HR tech has been that for me whether that was at Seridian or Mercer smart recruiters now here like I get to be I get to be the buyer, the consumer and the customer all in one.

[00:02:59] Well, and your product people probably love you because they get the inside rather from a paying customer and outside customer they get internal data.

[00:03:10] So I think they love you as well.

[00:03:13] How direct are you with your product people?

[00:03:16] They love me like some of them might actually want to put a muzzle on me and like, you know, being a feedback right.

[00:03:27] Well part of my journey and I don't know if you know this but part of my journey that got me into this was running product.

[00:03:34] I ran product at Ultimate Software for their talent module.

[00:03:38] And that's what I originally started at Seridian for was to run the talent side of the day forced product.

[00:03:43] So I have a passion for product.

[00:03:47] I understand how product should be consumed by a CHRO.

[00:03:51] And so yeah, I'm very direct Ryan like if something isn't working as designed.

[00:03:56] I'm not going to sugarcoat that I'm going to say I don't understand why you designed it like this. You're literally not making my life better. You're making more complicated.

[00:04:03] Yeah well and you have an interesting perspective where they may not right there product.

[00:04:08] You're a consumer. You've used it for throughout your entire career and you know how your people also need to use the product and what they need to get out of it.

[00:04:19] Absolutely.

[00:04:21] So let's go backwards Ryan likes to do it and so I'll do it.

[00:04:25] Let's go back to high school or college where we feel like did you elementary school.

[00:04:31] Yeah, did you work not?

[00:04:34] No.

[00:04:37] Did you have an idea?

[00:04:40] Did you have an idea of this is what you would end up doing or did you have a different.

[00:04:45] Did you have a different path? What was your path?

[00:04:48] So as you know from what you do know about me, I'm a talker.

[00:04:54] I have a lot of opinions very direct. I like to ask hard questions.

[00:04:58] I wanted to be a defense attorney or be in the FBI. I thought those two paths were going to leverage my strengths, my curiosity, my sense of always wanting to dig into and understand why things are the way they are.

[00:05:12] And that's really, that was the path I was going to go down. Then I went and started college and I was like oh my god, I don't want to go to school that long.

[00:05:20] I know.

[00:05:23] We're done.

[00:05:26] That's an eight year journey.

[00:05:30] Yeah, and then I had this I'd have this mound of debt and I'm like oh great so I'm going to be working.

[00:05:36] And I'm really going to be paying off loans versus buying new cars in the big house and all these things that I thought having those types of jobs would afford me.

[00:05:44] So I am, I quickly got an opportunity at well at the time it was called Raymond Carson Associates. It eventually became connects that after multiple name changes.

[00:05:56] And I got into sales and I realized that all of the things that Ryan stopped laughing.

[00:06:03] All the things my mother and father got told about me in junior high and high school of conferences that were perceived to be negatives.

[00:06:13] And I found a way to harness them in a way that actually elevated my ability to make an impact.

[00:06:20] I recently got the opportunity to be part of a best selling book now called Now, and you're next.

[00:06:26] And I wrote a whole reflection in there about the fact that I was continuously being made to feel like my voice should be not heard that I should be seen not heard as a young female both in high school,

[00:06:40] and early in college and then early in my professional career. And sales gave me the opportunity to say to hell with that I'm going to be heard, and I was able to use my influence and energy and passion to make money right to maybe not be able to afford the mausirati that I aspired and still aspired to have but it was a path to getting me going somewhere.

[00:07:04] And I started at an HR tech company. So I quickly learned about HR, I will tell you, I used to joke and I joked about this when I got offered my first CHRO role.

[00:07:18] I was a walking HR violation for many years.

[00:07:22] I had a refrigerator in my office when it was okay that had been drinking four o'clock on a Friday.

[00:07:29] That's not okay now. That's normal.

[00:07:32] Yes, if you work from home Ryan, you could work for any highers or bush.

[00:07:37] That's a different bit.

[00:07:39] What was your what was really was running connect sir?

[00:07:43] What was your what when did you what was your cause Ryan work for for connects as well for years.

[00:07:50] So what was your paths or what was your time periods?

[00:07:53] So I started at connect set in April of oh my gosh, how do I remember this? I can't remember but I wore last week and I can't remember when I started April of 2001.

[00:08:03] And then I left early 2009 because I had this wild hair that I'd had for many years that I wanted to get out of this tech space and.

[00:08:19] Yes, a farm agent and run my own state farm agency.

[00:08:23] It was an awesome diversion.

[00:08:25] I want to talk about my business that I quickly jumped back into the HR tech space.

[00:08:32] That sounds like someone who goes to real estate.

[00:08:35] Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, like I can't get my real address last year.

[00:08:39] Yeah, let me do it for a bit.

[00:08:42] Lisa you'll love this and I won't do it now because it'd be a big blank camera.

[00:08:47] Or maybe I will let you to talk literally right there two feet away.

[00:08:52] I've got two to nexus the big ones that we had at the Lincoln office.

[00:08:58] I literally they're sitting there and I want to hang them on the wall. My wife tells me that would be the most ass and nine thing ever to do it.

[00:09:07] I love the to nexus.

[00:09:09] I don't think so is a great company. They did great stuff.

[00:09:12] I mean, Rudy was if you didn't fall in love with Rudy something was wrong with you.

[00:09:17] Yeah, Rudy had a vision back then right that a lot of people couldn't wrap their head around.

[00:09:24] He was a visionary and saw a path to bringing all of these different tech stacks together to do what a lot of the HCM solutions are doing today.

[00:09:34] I know. Yeah, doing it back in the early 2000s when people thought you were crazy, right?

[00:09:38] Like we acquired web hire week. I mean, probably every three weeks we were acquiring the company honestly.

[00:09:44] Right right right right right right.

[00:09:46] Did you all overlap Brian? Did you all overlap in your time?

[00:09:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I said. I feel like I know you.

[00:09:52] Yeah. I think we have a moment to remember.

[00:09:55] Well, she was on the she you must have been in the Lincoln office there.

[00:09:58] Yeah, so that's where I took so I was down there for something and Amy, a story where walking through the hallway.

[00:10:04] And I was like, I really want those if you ever get rid of these two these two very specific ones that want these and I left the building and she shipped them to my house.

[00:10:16] I was like, that is amazing. That's amazing and they're literally sitting right here. I'm going to hang about.

[00:10:22] That's the alumni meeting.

[00:10:25] That's how I am. I'm literally going to hang something up from 20 years ago whatever it's been.

[00:10:30] I mean, Kinexa was it has a special place in my heart one because it really Troy Cantor who I still talked to to this day saw something in me that I don't know that nobody else saw but he took it and he ran with it and he challenged me to get out of my own way.

[00:10:50] Challenge me to think differently about certain things and to this day I still give him a lot of credit for the success that I've had because he believed in me when I was a smart mouth 20 something.

[00:11:06] Fireball.

[00:11:09] Is that the technical term?

[00:11:12] Not within your fridge.

[00:11:14] Yes, however, however I do like I do like fireball. I'll just say that to you too.

[00:11:19] It's special to me is it is where I met my second husband.

[00:11:26] My at one point I worked there. My husband worked there. My brother-in-law worked there in my sister-in-law work there are the whole sterling clan ran different parts of the business and I remember so we had so many like family you know Thanksgiving whatever where my mother-in-law and father-in-law would come

[00:11:42] and we'd all be talking shop right.

[00:11:44] Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:11:45] Sales shameless strategy.

[00:11:48] I looked to me he goes I don't even understand what the hell you people are.

[00:11:52] Why are we here?

[00:11:54] I just came for the turkey.

[00:11:56] You're doing strategic off site.

[00:12:01] You just wanted to ask potato and gravy.

[00:12:03] Yeah.

[00:12:04] It was good for they were good.

[00:12:07] I love the company. I fell in love with the company from day one.

[00:12:12] I saw a lot of relationships with people from there, but there were specific people in the organization and short it's kind of affected you moving forward that had an impact on my career and everything that I've done in the way I think today

[00:12:27] and I can pick out moments for each of those people that I thought when I first saw them like, yeah you're not the brightest.

[00:12:35] I'm not but then you know a month later sorry a month later I'm like wow I was wrong.

[00:12:43] Like I'm not my you were not on you were always the brightest.

[00:12:47] You were the one I was like I need to be her.

[00:12:50] Good.

[00:12:51] That's why I took the 10 nexus home with me.

[00:12:53] So so after the state farm bill was ultimate your next stop.

[00:13:01] It was and that's an interesting story too right?

[00:13:04] So again going back to the incestuous nature of these companies right?

[00:13:09] There was a gentleman who Ryan you might remember him Zach Thomas who worked as as he ran product.

[00:13:16] That's her cousin by the way.

[00:13:17] He reached out to my husband and asked Shane if Shane wanted to leave Connectset and joined him at ultimate.

[00:13:31] He was running product for ultimate but it wasn't for the recruitment side which is really where Shane's expertise was and is.

[00:13:38] It was more on the performance career leadership development side and you should be talking to Lisa and so it was about that time that I was in the company.

[00:13:47] I was really starting to contemplate like is this being my own boss having this really small organization not being part of something big and grandiose right is this for me.

[00:14:00] And so Shane and I had a really difficult series of conversations financially because we are going to walk away from building lease and all kinds of stuff that come to set could have a detriment to our family.

[00:14:13] And I made the leap and said you know what yummy live once if we if we live poorly great but we'll have a great family right like I'm going to do what I love and so.

[00:14:24] I jumped back into that and went to work for a gal by the name of Laura her and Zach were awesome people to get connected to and I had a really good run there and I started in the product side.

[00:14:35] And then over time started to move into how do we that become the best consumer again this concept of drink your own champagne of leveraging our product because the one thing that ultimate wasn't great at that time was being their own best customer like we we practiced some of what we preached but not all of what we preached and Vibh Maza who is one of by far the best chief people officers I've ever known and had the pleasure of working with in my career really really.

[00:15:05] I was like yes we should we should start doing this and so we are doing all these amazing things from an HR perspective but we weren't leveraging our product in the way that we should and I think that's really where my love for product and HR started to overlap I still at that point would have never told you in a million years that I was going to go be a CHRO.

[00:15:25] But I really liked the ability to get involved in parts of the HR aspect the fun parts and then implement the technology to make our people's lives easier to make accessibility is data easier to make you know the integrity of information far greater than ever before.

[00:15:41] And that's that's where I really I think that to me is my tipping point where I started to tip my toes into truly the HR function versus selling into or building product for.

[00:15:52] So the CEOs that I know that you work for they all have something in common so David Jerome Rudy etc. They all not going to say cult leaders that says exactly that's exactly exactly what you want exactly.

[00:16:09] And I can see a first of all I can I can see fallen in love with that.

[00:16:21] I mean, in all of those cases to the person it's like when you're around them they they they will get you on the page and they will show you what North Star is and it's like okay let's go.

[00:16:36] Like I can see it being easy to then be a part of that.

[00:16:42] Scotch year was the same way I remember the first time I landed in Fort Lauderdale and went to the Weston campus which was we called it.

[00:16:50] Or because it was a huge basketball court moment I shook Scott cheers hand and I listened to him for five minutes.

[00:16:58] I said dude, I'll call the store for you.

[00:17:01] Yeah, where are you?

[00:17:02] Where do you want us to live?

[00:17:03] What's it was to do?

[00:17:04] Yeah, and you know David was that way.

[00:17:08] David and Scott were very similar similar but very different.

[00:17:12] And my current CEO John Borland at Perceptix is very much like Scott like if I had to take two of my CEOs that I've ever worked for it's Scott and and John that are the most alike because they lead with heart.

[00:17:26] So they're visionaries and know where they're going to go.

[00:17:29] They don't lead with their head they lead with their heart first and that to me is what truly makes an organization special from a people perspective.

[00:17:38] It's it's almost the I don't care attitude and they just do it because it's right for them and it's what they visioned and they just you're either on the your coming with me for the ride or your or your not.

[00:17:54] Yeah, I mean, I remember so William when you say cult like that's essentially what you were there you weren't.

[00:18:03] And those at warrant got off the train pretty quickly.

[00:18:08] And it's okay to write maybe it's not the right word.

[00:18:13] Yeah, but we understand it.

[00:18:15] Yeah, I think kind of like the jeep sign behind you.

[00:18:19] I honestly up until just a few minutes ago, I didn't realize I knew it said jeep but I was like jeepers.

[00:18:26] No, I don't know why and then I saw the Jeep above it.

[00:18:29] I'm like, oh, she knows she's got it.

[00:18:33] It's an obsession.

[00:18:34] Yeah, same thing point.

[00:18:36] I think when there is that when there is that much focus and passion behind a vision to your point, people are either with you or they're gracefully exiting and going left stage and finding their next right.

[00:18:53] I think that is a beautiful thing because there's too many people that work for organizations who just just stumble along right they're not thriving, they're surviving.

[00:19:04] They're getting a paycheck.

[00:19:05] They don't love what they do what they do but in this type of organization.

[00:19:10] You almost feel like a misfit if you're not aligned.

[00:19:14] It makes it easier for you to gracefully exit and go do something else.

[00:19:19] Here is again in some companies, you can just sit and just be like to check.

[00:19:24] Yep, and I don't want to work with people like that.

[00:19:28] No, I want to ask you a question about the relationship between the chief people of CHR or whatever the highest level of talent there is and the relationship between that and the founder of the CEO.

[00:19:43] What is the optimal what have you found is the optimal relationship between a and B like what should it be?

[00:19:52] Listen, I am going to use my current my current situation.

[00:19:56] Sure.

[00:19:57] Because it to me is optimal and it's part of the reason I came here and Ryan, you know a bunch of people that but I came to perceptix because it truly felt like I was coming home and when I say home back to my connection days.

[00:20:11] There are a ton of connects that alum that work for this company, Chad Tom, Agitonages Amy Craig glow like I can go through a list of people who work with me who are here.

[00:20:21] They've been here longer than me so I knew me but John when I was interviewing with John.

[00:20:27] John was very clear up front that he didn't want to see a show he wanted a strategic partner.

[00:20:31] He wanted somebody who he could call at five o'clock in the afternoon and say I am thinking about something can we just can we just think out loud together.

[00:20:39] Can we have a conversation?

[00:20:41] I'm not suggesting John doesn't make decisions without me, he does all the time but when it comes to cold.

[00:20:47] But he shouldn't.

[00:20:48] Well.

[00:20:49] That's what she's really thinking.

[00:20:51] No.

[00:20:52] No.

[00:20:53] This is the most important that impact our people, our culture, our organizational success because it impacts our leaders etc.

[00:21:05] Him and I have this incredible relationship and he is a founder.

[00:21:10] He's one of the co-founders of the organization.

[00:21:12] He's now he's the only founder left the rest are have moved on.

[00:21:16] But that relationship between us started during the interview process and that's what made me really be like this is it right if I'm going to leave smart recruiters.

[00:21:26] This is it and Jerome and I had a very similar relationship right.

[00:21:32] I think that the challenge with the founder relationship and CHRO is depending upon.

[00:21:39] Depending upon the ego and how the CEO thinks you can be a token role and I don't mean that rudely but it's kind of like hey Lisa I want your opinion.

[00:21:55] Okay great I'm going to go do it my way anyways.

[00:21:57] Yeah, I checked the box move on.

[00:21:59] I have you.

[00:22:01] I asked you that's not that doesn't happen all the time right.

[00:22:04] It's not that way with with John like I'm not going to say he always takes my my approach but we can sit and iterate and banter back and forth in a really productive way.

[00:22:16] And collective agreement, but it is a collective agreement.

[00:22:20] It's not a why don't you have to say I'm just moving on.

[00:22:23] So so I've got a question here about and this is leaving one organization as a CHRO or CPO where you're not just a token your strategic advisor.

[00:22:34] So leaving one leader to the next leader.

[00:22:38] How do you make that decision when you come to that conclusion like okay it's time to leave this leader and go to support this leader here.

[00:22:47] Is it a vision change is something change in a relationship.

[00:22:50] Changing religions, I mean it seems to me that it's like becoming going from Presbyterian to been Methodist.

[00:22:57] Yeah unless you're just a token by your not.

[00:23:00] Oh no, yeah.

[00:23:01] No, no, no.

[00:23:02] I mean if you're really if you're really bought in I think that's what Lisa's saying when she buys in when she goes in she's she's all in she pushes the chips all in.

[00:23:11] But your question is really is really interesting.

[00:23:14] It's like at one point do you take your chips back and you do something different.

[00:23:18] Do you wake up and say yeah I'm over you or is it like something that is it something that builds up and you're just like my my work is done.

[00:23:28] I need to run and build relationships.

[00:23:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[00:23:35] They really called they want their they want their direct respect.

[00:23:41] I love it.

[00:23:44] Ryan, it's an interesting question because I can't answer it in the way that you're asking the question and here's why when I when I chose to leave Seridian.

[00:23:58] I had had major health issues and look I literally went into surgery on January 2nd 2020 and had four different surgeries done all at one time.

[00:24:09] For weeks later, I proceeded to get on an airplane and fly to Europe to speak at an HR tech conference and then go to Scotland.

[00:24:17] I was wondering that time.

[00:24:20] My body had not been given time to recover the way it needed to and I started to not I didn't feel good and on that flight home.

[00:24:28] I remember thinking this is pre-COVID right like it's I'm getting home February 11th February 12th.

[00:24:34] Wow, remember thinking to myself what in the hell am I doing like I am not putting my oxygen mask on first like my flight attendant.

[00:24:43] So for me, it was I wasn't I wasn't leaving David. I wasn't leaving Seridian. No, I was moving to take care of me and put me first.

[00:24:52] If I remember that whole process, just there, there.

[00:24:57] Seridian was when I've I mean I worked with day four and Seridian separately and collectively they were a hot mess for a long time.

[00:25:09] They were.

[00:25:12] And so you joined them in that process and I got the I mean not kind of you got the boat on the right path and pointing in the right direction building the right way and he took him back public.

[00:25:24] Yep.

[00:25:26] And so on a certain level like I looked at it outside outside looking like you did you job you did the job.

[00:25:33] Like he really needed to do anything else that also was in conjunction with having a health crisis or health scare.

[00:25:41] It's like that's a moment of life where you're like, you know what? Let me rethink.

[00:25:45] Yeah, it's a good time to rethink.

[00:25:47] It will.

[00:25:48] But you did a wonderful job at Seridian.

[00:25:51] I got to work with you a bunch on different things. So.

[00:25:54] And again, nothing about Seridian, about the hot mess comment. It's just they were coming a 30 year old payroll.

[00:26:02] Yep.

[00:26:05] Company that just needed to be modernized.

[00:26:08] And that was David was the breath of fresh air 100% that company needed and he.

[00:26:15] I mean, to this day, he will always hold a very special place in my heart because he is who pushed me to go into the C.H. R.O.

[00:26:24] Well, I remember him calling one evening and saying we want you to be our chief people officer.

[00:26:29] Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:31] No, no terrible idea.

[00:26:34] Terrible idea. Terrible idea.

[00:26:36] Before like I'm a walking HR violation, I say what I think I don't really I don't really adhere to policy.

[00:26:41] I think policies stupid and needs to be broken like I'm a grown ass adult.

[00:26:45] Just give me the power to do my job and stop putting parameters around me all these things.

[00:26:49] So I told my husband went downstairs and I told my husband I was like, he left.

[00:26:53] He's like, you did what you turned down.

[00:26:56] Do you know what kind of like?

[00:26:59] Do you know how miserable you need to call him back?

[00:27:04] I was like, babe, I know.

[00:27:07] So I sat on it for a few days and then I was like, okay, I'm going to call him.

[00:27:11] So I called him back and I started asking questions like how much power do I really have?

[00:27:15] Like what are you really going to go let me do?

[00:27:18] And he gave me a blank canvas and said the reason we want you to do this is because you don't believe in 90% of what HR is today.

[00:27:28] Go make it what it needs to be.

[00:27:30] And from that point, that was in 2015.

[00:27:33] We were about a 1.9 on glass door.

[00:27:37] Right.

[00:27:38] We spent the next three years investing all of our time and energy in truly an integration between day force and serenity and building the right culture.

[00:27:47] Ripping out old, you know, old process and governance.

[00:27:51] And right before we went public on the NYC in April of 2018, we were named one of glass doors stores top 15 companies based on our employee advocacy.

[00:28:02] So we went from a 1.9 to a 4.7 in three years.

[00:28:06] We had the most successful IPO on the T Essex that year and one of the most successful on the NYC.

[00:28:12] And we made a lot of people millionaires.

[00:28:16] They were able to retire with that money, right?

[00:28:19] And so to your point, William, when 2020 came around, it was easy for me to not easy. I shouldn't say that but it was it was logical.

[00:28:27] I was like, well, my job had been done and I was handing the keys to the kingdom to somebody else.

[00:28:33] I had done what I needed to do.

[00:28:35] I also knew I wasn't the right person.

[00:28:38] Right next phase because I like the growing that I don't want to polish things.

[00:28:44] I want to be part of the build.

[00:28:45] I want to help go from a shit show to awesome. Right?

[00:28:49] Not just, we'll just continue to make it better and better.

[00:28:52] Like that's not home for me.

[00:28:54] It is. And then ever commerce came along and I met Eric and he was like, we were going to do an IPO.

[00:29:01] We really don't have a CHRO like so I went there knowing this was this was not a long term gig.

[00:29:10] Like this was not a fit for me long term. It was out of the HR tech space.

[00:29:14] It was an organization that was 51 different acquisitions growing.

[00:29:20] It's an amazing company. Let me just tell you that they're continuing to do great things for the SMB market.

[00:29:25] But it just wasn't for me so I knew that was there was a time bound on that and I'd always, always, always admired Jerome and thought what he was doing way back in the day with smart recruiters and creating this free experience for talent acquisition teams and doing these things.

[00:29:43] I was like, I want to be part of that. Well the benefit for me was our previous head of F P and A and investor relations at Seridian had left and was their CFO so so I had the honor of working alongside Jeremy Johnson who I adore immensely.

[00:30:02] But as Jerome started to transition out of that organization.

[00:30:06] At that time back to your question Ryan. I knew I couldn't be there any longer because I joined for Jerome in his vision.

[00:30:14] I had no idea what the board and the next CEO were going to now they've gone on and done tremendous things I probably could have stayed but this opportunity with John and perceptix came up and I was like, I'm going home.

[00:30:29] I'm literally going back to where I started and my goal is when I'm that I'm not working full time anymore that I get to go into a consulting role or a coaching role or just beyond boards or whatever but this is, this is hopefully my last stop and it's a damn good one.

[00:30:46] They're going to pull you back in. It's no way. I'm sorry. That sounds good. I don't love hearing people say that I'm just going to kind of I want to be on the front ring and it's Rudy.

[00:30:57] And then you know, I'm just kind of kind of a rat. No, no, sorry.

[00:31:01] I will say I got on my first board to an app years ago.

[00:31:06] Yeah, I love it. Like I love to be able to see from other perspectives what people are doing.

[00:31:13] I get to work with the CHRO of the board. I sit on I speak with the CEO a lot we share war stories with each other like it's kind of cool to be a part of it but not be responsible for 100%

[00:31:26] Well, if you're on the directors, you have a fiduciary duty and you have all of that other stuff. So there is there is some there is some things that can get sticky.

[00:31:36] They don't always there but they can get sticky. And what most people don't understand about the board of directors is that they're the ones that actually run the company.

[00:31:44] They are. They are. The management team is there. And but they cannot be there. Yeah.

[00:31:50] So I think that the board can can make that decision as a board.

[00:31:57] So I just I think I say this all time by myself, but I don't believe in retirement because people in my family when they retire, they die.

[00:32:07] Oh, she said, okay, I'm not retiring.

[00:32:11] That escalated quickly. And you thought, no, just for me.

[00:32:18] Can you just move along and be happy? Yeah, you got to die. No, it's just one of those deals. I'm not going to retire. I'm just going to die in the fields. It's like, it is what it is.

[00:32:28] So this idea that I'm going to get to a place and go play golf. I don't have that illusion or delusion. I'm just not going to be that guy.

[00:32:36] I hope you do become a consultant male and a bunch of boards, but my gut tells me that there's going to be another shit show of an HR tech.

[00:32:48] That has a wonderful founder. And you're going to go.

[00:32:53] I mean, we were on vacation last week, but for my daughter senior spring break. And I was like, I am keeping my laptop.

[00:33:00] I should bring my laptop or bought my iPad. Not going to look at my phone.

[00:33:03] Carbicide.

[00:33:04] And by the beach and I'm like, I'm just going to peak its slack.

[00:33:07] Nobody's here. I can do it.

[00:33:10] Reading, right? Like my kids are avid avid readers. I have a, and this is funny. This is, this will tell you a lot about me and I, maybe I shouldn't share this out loud. I'm going to anyways.

[00:33:18] I had a number of years ago, went through a period of time where I was getting really bad migraines.

[00:33:23] My father died of a brain tumor.

[00:33:25] And so I got paranoid, right? I'm like, oh my god, my dad had a brain tumor all kinds of bad things went in and saw a neurologist and they did some type of brain scan on me.

[00:33:36] And I walked away going, oh my god, this is wrong. And then I was like, wait, no, look at this as positive.

[00:33:43] My results came back and my, remember my neurologist looking at him and having this face like this. And I told my god, how about never ever something you wanted to see?

[00:33:51] He's like, I've never seen this before.

[00:33:54] He literally said those exact words.

[00:33:58] How many weeks do I have to live?

[00:34:02] I got a bucket list.

[00:34:05] He said, no, no, no, he goes, Lisa, you don't have a tumor. And I'm like, okay, then it's like is my brain not completely formed?

[00:34:12] Like your cortex, like what do I want to be the only one?

[00:34:16] He said, he looked at and he said your brain waves fire faster than anybody's I've ever seen before.

[00:34:23] And I was like, what does that mean?

[00:34:26] You can move from thought to thought to thought to thought.

[00:34:30] And it's, it doesn't like it doesn't even register to you that you've moved on. And it's funny because my husband's nickname for me since we've been first dating was squirrel.

[00:34:40] And he calls me squirrel because he's like, you can literally be mid sentence and immediately go propped to somebody else real quick and come back and pick up where you were and just continue the conversation.

[00:34:49] And we're all standing around like what the hell just hell just happened.

[00:34:53] But it is a genetic thing that my brain functions that way. And so when my kids sit down and they're like, mom you should read a book.

[00:35:01] I'm like great. So I'll sit down and I'll start reading Kayleigh's 40 pages in and she's like where are you at?

[00:35:06] I'm like, I'm re reading the first chapter for the second time because I still don't understand what's happening in the first chapter because I've thought about 17 different things right.

[00:35:14] So when my kids read I check email and selects because they're quick. They're easy. I can respond and I can move on to the next. I can't read if I have to sit and read a book. It's going to take me five times as long as somebody else, because my brain doesn't allow me to focus for a long period of time.

[00:35:30] And that's not me not wanting to. I literally know it's my brain now.

[00:35:34] So you go into a job interview.

[00:35:38] What your greatest strength is.

[00:35:43] My neurological result. My brain fires really fast.

[00:35:47] My brain, yeah, it is literally all five.

[00:35:51] I'm so genius.

[00:35:54] Last question for me. I know Ryan's got something but at last advice you give your younger self.

[00:36:00] I'm going to go back in time and say, hey, Lisa.

[00:36:03] Yeah.

[00:36:05] You know, I mentioned that I wrote a reflection in this book now near next part of what that reflection about is what I would tell my younger self.

[00:36:14] And that was do not let somebody quiet you just because it doesn't feel natural or normal.

[00:36:21] I first when I first jumped from being like a VP to an executive.

[00:36:27] I became a shell of who I was before, right?

[00:36:31] I allowed myself to sit at a table and not express my opinions, not raise my voice, not demonstrate the passion that I had.

[00:36:41] Well, some of that was also people didn't ask your opinion probably.

[00:36:44] Absolutely true. But I never had a problem with inserting my thoughts.

[00:36:49] How to present this table.

[00:36:53] And as I look back, that wasn't the first time there were other situations in both my personal and professional lives where I found myself in an uncharted space or something I had done before.

[00:37:03] And for some reason, I lost my voice.

[00:37:07] I lost my confidence and I would go back and tell myself that actually losing that I think set me back at different points in time.

[00:37:16] I was able to keep going which some people might not have.

[00:37:21] And I think that's concerning.

[00:37:23] And my other piece would be when people told me to stay the course.

[00:37:27] I didn't and I would tell my younger self.

[00:37:30] Don't right because if I to state the course, I would have never moved from sales to product product to operations back into sales to the HR role.

[00:37:39] And my career.

[00:37:41] I am so proud of and part of what I'm most proud of is I look at the success of people who have worked for me in the past either in sales or in HR or whatever.

[00:37:51] I have a couple of people who have worked for me that have gone on to be CHROs.

[00:37:54] I'm not suggesting that's all because of me they were talented in their own right.

[00:37:58] But that is amazing, right?

[00:38:00] I think that's why people who have gone on to be great VPs of revenue because they worked with me as an inside sales rep.

[00:38:09] I don't, don't, don't allow other people's opinions or perceptions stop you from doing what you want to do regardless of who is shouting out you for how uncomfortable you feel.

[00:38:23] There are no other yeah there's no other questions to ask.

[00:38:26] I'm not saying that's my fault.

[00:38:28] My fault.

[00:38:30] Lisa, absolutely.

[00:38:32] Thank you so much.

[00:38:33] I know you're crazy busy.

[00:38:34] So thank you for carving out time for us on our audience.

[00:38:37] This has been so much fun.

[00:38:39] I like I love this and you need your own show.

[00:38:42] I thought about that.

[00:38:44] Yes she does.

[00:38:45] I thought it was.

[00:38:47] Just squirrel.

[00:38:49] Squirrel.

[00:38:50] We're going to get on it just hammer through a bunch of things.

[00:38:53] I'm.

[00:38:54] My first guess I'm bringing you back.

[00:38:57] We would love that but thank you so much for sharing your story your journey.

[00:39:02] I can't help but think that people are people are going to love this episode so thank you.

[00:39:06] My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me and Ryan.

[00:39:08] It's so good to reconnect.

[00:39:10] Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:11] Off camera.

[00:39:12] I'm getting the phone.

[00:39:13] You're going to see these things.

[00:39:15] I'm going to get the gun linked in or something else.

[00:39:18] My attack myself.

[00:39:19] I want to see them.

[00:39:20] Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:21] Oh they're right here.

[00:39:22] I'm going to hold it up for you.

[00:39:23] In the recording.