HR & Payroll Tech Marketplace News & Updates (Spring 2024, April)

[00:00:08] Welcome everyone to another episode of HR and Payroll 2.0. I'm Pete Tilliakas and as always I'm joined by the legendary Julie Fernandez. Welcome Julie.

[00:00:16] Thanks Pete, great to be with you again and I can't hardly believe it's the end of April already.

[00:00:21] I know, I know. It's exciting and kind of scary like the quarters gone. First quarter is gone. We're already deep into second quarter.

[00:00:29] Payroll Congress is right around the corner. Summer's right around the corner is a lot to talk about. We have so much news today.

[00:00:34] That's what I'm excited about.

[00:00:37] Yeah, yeah. We haven't done news in a little bit so we got plenty to dig into and if you start with ADP like they're just finishing out their fiscal right?

[00:00:44] So yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely.

[00:00:46] Yeah, that's why we're in fiscal so.

[00:00:49] Yeah let's start there. Yeah, so we as analysts got a nice update from ADP recently. We had an innovation update if you will.

[00:00:58] I tweeted a bunch of this so there's some good notes out there like I'd love to kind of recap here but

[00:01:03] Yeah, look I mean you know, Shreya Kutam now the CHR former CHRO is now head of product. So he and the team gave us a great update.

[00:01:11] Lots going on there obviously tons and Gen AI ADP assist is the solution. Obviously that's that's leading all that you can you can look up that on their website and see a lot of the use cases out there but

[00:01:23] You know it's all about augmentation right bringing more capabilities and insights to the frontline worker to the manager all that sort of thing.

[00:01:30] Across all the solutions right assist and data cloud are working very closely together to bring bring that different experience of surfaced insights and nudges and

[00:01:41] Ability to help people get things right every time on time if you will.

[00:01:46] I think one of the things that really excited me the most you probably recall Sora right they made that acquisition earlier

[00:01:53] Around so I think it was beginning of the year from that mistaken and what I really love about this Julie you'll appreciate this because we talk about this a lot here is orchestration right one of the things I think is really really interesting about Sora and I think maybe ADP has gotten.

[00:02:08] I perceived they might have gotten ahead of some of the others is just the orchestration of things between between the lines right between the transactions. We've talked about it about leaves

[00:02:18] But they're really looking at Sora as an opportunity to start creating more of an orchestrated experience for employees for transactions that sometimes go be or excuse me.

[00:02:28] Actions and experiences that go beyond the transaction so I think that's really great right bringing bringing tech together bringing process together and making it much more seamless and automated so that's something I would really keep an eye on.

[00:02:41] Yeah, I would ask you though did you get did some of those insights include platform specifics because oftentimes you know you're they have their strategic different strategic platforms but they're still folks using other platforms and and I always like to you know

[00:02:58] Okay, poke a little bit and find out is it for all the platform users or certain platforms did they give any insights on that.

[00:03:04] Well of course right I mean ADP data cloud and ADP assist are available against all their HCMs. I think it's fundamentally becoming part of the you know part of the fabric of ADP solutions so yes I would say it's going to be available across all.

[00:03:20] And you know when you look at some of the some of the solutions that they're that they're operating that are most popular like workforce now.

[00:03:27] They're bringing a lot more sector focus into there but also bringing in I think you'll appreciate this they're really helping with obviously the advanced workflows like I mentioned, but one of the things that was cool was they were using it for digital onboarding and doing a bit more of the data movement and help with a I or excuse me help in getting that data migration right and configuration and policy configuration.

[00:03:50] Sort of set up for clients through to AI as well so yes you're seeing this across all their platforms.

[00:03:57] And I think you're going to see deeper integration with assist deeper integration has been going on with data cloud, which is their, you know rich detail, excuse me rich data set across all their customers right a million customers and very much driving a lot of the benchmarks and and insights and you know the the ability for folks to get that those nudges and help.

[00:04:20] Along the way right along their transactions so so yeah absolutely we did hit on some of those.

[00:04:26] You know everything's getting stronger right next Jen's getting stronger global payroll we've already kind of talked about that I think from rethink I did a write up on that.

[00:04:33] But yeah, not I love it I think I think ADP is really you know obviously they've gotten much sharper with their go to market now so that the solutions are are a bit more cleaned up I think there's a lot of platforms at ADP and it can be a little confusing but.

[00:04:46] I really appreciate what they're doing to clean that up and make it easier. And then of course I don't know if you realize this Julie and maybe others don't but ADP also has a ventures program, similar to what we've seen.

[00:04:57] You know maybe UKG or work day or others do. Yeah, where they're making these incremental investments in point solutions that can enhance their marketplace and enhance their environment and maybe ultimately acquire some of them who knows but.

[00:05:12] Some really nice additions there leave of absence was one of the partner investment areas I know that's key for them. So makes total sense right they've got benefits they've got payroll they've got HCM so all that kind of comes together there.

[00:05:24] Yeah, yeah and so yeah really good stuff I thought it was a great update I like the way ADP is kind of breaking it into quarters now.

[00:05:32] I feel like we were getting mostly half year stuff like most of the HCMs but I love the more frequent stuff so yeah I love it.

[00:05:39] Awesome great to hear that wasn't the only that wasn't the only kind of summit right and update that you have had since you talked last.

[00:05:47] Yeah right we the analysts got to go out to San Francisco to the beautiful beautiful Kavalo point and I believe that's what it's called in Sausalito, California and.

[00:05:57] Yeah it was wonderful right or a workday innovation summits are always exciting it's such a privilege to get to go and just you know one of the things I thought was interesting to start with Julie is.

[00:06:07] I was sitting there sort of a pining about wow when did I first started working with the Workday platform and for me I think I was coming up around 20 2007 eight something like that right but how about you how long have you been kind of poking poking around and and engaging with work day.

[00:06:22] You know what when I was first engaging with work day it was before they had scaled to large market yeah so it was working with clients you know well below the 3000 employees and you know and so they were still kind of new and that was right before they had their big massive.

[00:06:38] You know the first really big client I want to say was flex or something that might not even be around anymore.

[00:06:44] Yeah, and and so it's been you know it's been probably 20 years.

[00:06:50] Well exactly yeah exactly right I was going to say I looked it up because I was like I think I think they've been around about 20 years now right and you're right 19 this year so congratulations to work day I think they've.

[00:07:00] Look they set the pace for cloud HR let's be honest, they were there a bit of the darling right out of the right out of the gate and they've done a phenomenal job.

[00:07:08] Right look seven 7.3 but I looked at the 10k again this morning seven plus billion in a rr and more than 10,000 customers across all their apps so wow what a you know what a what a what a trajectory in the last 20 years or 19 years I guess you could say coming up on 20 so.

[00:07:23] So yeah look I think work day is you know I just I posted this on LinkedIn but I think that this was a really there was a different atmosphere at this event I thought the I thought the executives, particularly a Neil right he's retired now I guess you could say he's the chair and he's not the same.

[00:07:38] CEO anymore he's turned that over to Carl.

[00:07:41] And I think that there was a, I don't want to say they were more relaxed but they were they just seemed more at peace, I guess is what I would say and I thought the tone was very.

[00:07:50] I use the words primed and focused, I think work days in you know they've done a lot of work in building their platform, being very careful and building their AI they've been on that journey since 2015.

[00:08:02] I've been very smart about how they've partnered and how they've constructed things and I think they're in a great position.

[00:08:10] You know, the international is going to be huge for them. You see them do a lot more in finance you see them do a lot more with payroll to bring that bring that around for the full suite.

[00:08:20] And now, that's right. That's right the disparity partnership is going to bring them down market which I've we've talked about and I wrote a little bit about.

[00:08:31] So yeah, you know I'm excited I think work day has isn't a great position. Massive time potential when you think about all the green, you know sort of greenfield opportunity just in finance finance still has a lot of opportunity to transform.

[00:08:45] And what the HR does as well. So I think that a huge tam potential but what I think is really exciting is, you know, not only the gen AI that they're building which I think they think they showed us like or mentioned about 200 and two to 300 use cases or so and

[00:09:00] 2000 within their platform. But what is really exciting was listening to hired scores leadership Athena, the founder I'm drawn a blank on her last name right now but just the cool stuff that they're going to be doing the hired score and the talent intelligence

[00:09:15] there and what it what they can learn from from them equally and work they can teach them about AI and back and forth I think there's a lot of opportunity for them to do some really cool things across the platform so

[00:09:27] Yeah, I you know like I said I mentioned a few things I'm going to keep an eye on with them and I think that's one want to see what hired scores going to do across, you know to drip in more innovation across work days platform.

[00:09:39] I think it's going to give their talent side and definitely the recruiting a huge boost. Definitely want to see what payroll is going to be doing.

[00:09:46] And certainly, one of the things I'm you know obviously all the exams are very anxious to solve and help with is the frontline manager and frontline worker. I feel like work days lean really hard on that for a while now.

[00:09:58] And that's all coming to coming together as well. And you'll appreciate this. I thought there was a lot more clarity around their pricing their skews and how they're bundling things to make it easier for the for the customers to adopt so a lot of excitement around work day and I think it's going to be cool to see what

[00:10:14] where they go and I'll be honest I think they're still in the driver's seat to lead in the same way they have so

[00:10:22] I love the insights you get into this kind of the field the feel in the room. Yeah, at those events and it just made me think well you know like the rat races slowing down here in the SAS market as we approach, you know, approach the part of the market that is, you know, kind of table stakes to move

[00:10:40] into the cloud and so you know I can't help but wonder if that you know that's a little bit of that breath of who okay like it's not so friendly that you get your kids.

[00:10:51] Yeah well look I mean work day has what half of the fortune 500 I think it is. I'm not positive I have to go looking at again I think it's about.

[00:10:58] Yeah, so yeah more than half this area.

[00:11:02] Yeah, I mean I think you can tell like North America's a little maybe a little saturated at least in in in maybe enterprise right so certainly there's a lot of opportunities still with mid market and down market, which work day is is right right there right

[00:11:16] meeting it with their partner disparity. But I think in the world. Yeah, totally yeah rest of world is going to be huge work day is really really really looking that's where the partner ecosystem I think is going to be absolutely vital, helping them get into those other

[00:11:29] countries particularly Germany France, and some of these and I know Australia's big for them they're already doing really well there. The new payroll module or excuse me engine is available now there as well.

[00:11:40] You know and more to come and I'm staying very close to them on payroll. I love what they're doing with global payroll and the approach they're taking saying hey look we don't want to.

[00:11:48] We don't want to own all that we really just want to create create a great experience single experience for our users through the workday platform and let's leave the heavy lift in global payroll to our to our partners so well stay close is great but they can really slow to move into other country, you know like slow and

[00:12:05] and intentionally slow right so there hasn't been much country wise to talk about in quite some time now. Yeah, that's true I think they have right we have five templates right now country templates for payroll but but look that's where the partners come into play.

[00:12:21] I think that's where they go to market with a light now now new co I guess it would be will be really pivotal particularly for those you know seven or so European countries that they mentioned when that came out and look co innovation around payroll and just otherwise across their partner network.

[00:12:36] I think is gonna you're going to see more of the platforms more open than ever they've really armed developers with the tools to engage their solution and extend their ecosystem even more than it was.

[00:12:47] So yeah and that's one thing I want to point out this was brought up Carl, but was very clear on this because I've seen this with some of my, my client vendors that are trying to partner or were last year that maybe there was some obstacles to that and and that you know there was this idea that

[00:13:04] that doesn't open to partnering anymore with you know in certain spaces where they might have had a little saturation and so Carl made it very clear that's not the case we are you know air quotes open for business when it comes to partnerships so any of the vendors out there that were you know maybe

[00:13:17] we're having some issues if you get out there right there workday is absolutely open for business in that way go back at it. Go back at it yeah no I think look I think there's look I'm sure workday must get bombarded with opportunities right to partner.

[00:13:30] Not everything's going to be right not everything is going to be a fit. And so I'm sure that that's, that's a great problem to have and part of it but but Carl did emphasize open for business so if you're looking at the part of the

[00:13:41] model has always been, you know, it's not the Wild West partner partner wise and so, you know, certainly, there's a lot more partners and there ever were but, but, but there is a lot more control than, you know maybe we see in the bigger like CRP ecosystems

[00:13:57] where you know come one come all everybody, everybody can be integration specialist or an analyst.

[00:14:04] Yeah I mean I think that yeah like I said it's it's it's as open and as extensible as it is it can be.

[00:14:10] And workday is inviting that and that's the whole point right like workday, you know is positioning themselves as a platform right it's not just a set of apps anymore it's a platform, and that platform comes with integrated partners and marketplaces and

[00:14:22] abilities to take it beyond whatever they're building internally so yeah, we can be interesting I think the the HCM wars are going to heat up let's let's just let's just know that they're all they're all vying for that you know vying for that

[00:14:35] international population now we're seeing everyone sort of pushed beyond borders so it's gonna be interesting to see what happens and I love the I just love all that I think the I love I'm excited for the AI I'm excited for I'm excited to keep an eye on

[00:14:47] I'm gonna keep an eye on hired score I think there's some cool things going to come from that.

[00:14:51] And yeah, it's good stuff so.

[00:14:54] Awesome well so let's if we had a bell we bring it because I think I think we're going to shift over to, to some congratulations.

[00:15:01] Yeah yeah so more more more in the HCM world.

[00:15:04] If you notice recently I don't know if everyone saw this but UKG named a new president, a female president Rachel barger she's coming over from Cisco systems.

[00:15:13] I believe she was the SVP of America is for them and she will be leading up the, I believe it's the gdm go to market and the sales marketing and customer relationship elements of UKG so congratulations to Rachel

[00:15:27] and the relationship to UKG I think this is a really.

[00:15:30] I think this is one of those things where you're seeing UKG go to the next level and they got to bring in, you've often got to bring in that leadership right to bring a different viewpoint and ability to help you grow to that next

[00:15:42] band of revenue so very exciting big tech right big tech coming to HCM is really cool.

[00:15:48] That's right.

[00:15:49] Yeah.

[00:15:50] And so yeah congrats Rachel.

[00:15:52] Yeah I never heard to see more, it hurts to have more female executives out there too in the space which is really really cool so I'm excited to see what lens she'll bring that you know to UKG to take them to the to the next point so

[00:16:05] very good congratulations.

[00:16:07] All right so next one we've got a light right they spun off the big news right they spun off their payroll and excuse me pro services business to HIG capital.

[00:16:18] Yeah we will find on it lightly I think you know I think it's a great that a light now has, or excuse me the payroll business has a new home that will nurture it.

[00:16:27] It sounds like they're going to invest.

[00:16:29] We had a good, good update this morning from them on that.

[00:16:32] Yeah so I think it's exciting it's going to be interesting to see what the new name is what the new brand is and how they're going to operate but I know you've written something about it and Doug deep and very close to it so what are your

[00:16:41] thoughts on that. Yeah so interesting so first of all just for folks who aren't staying as close to this it's there's an agreement out there but of course these things take time so I would expect it's going to be you know June maybe July

[00:16:52] before, before there's any real finality to that so in the meantime we have a light which is basically going to keep all the benefits, you know benefits business on their side and then for folks who don't know kind of HR side of

[00:17:06] the, the part that's being spun off that hig will invest in next is the HR side of the house that really focuses on payroll that's a sweet spot for you and I and I know many folks may not remember but that business included some of the MGA HR

[00:17:24] business that came over in 2019 or so with them. And it's very global, right so unlike you know unlike some of the late mainstay benefits stuff. It's got a lot of global components to it and the professional services bit is really the

[00:17:42] bit that that works with workday and SAP deploys and Oracle deploys and and the AMS services so just in case folks don't know what to make of the professional services tagline when you hear payroll and professional services.

[00:17:57] That is essentially the HCM business the business that supports a lot of the HCM initiatives.

[00:18:03] And so those are the two pieces that are coming together. And a lot of clients out there so you know there are a lot of clients that are kind of wondering what happens as these two part ways, and especially since they've been kind of going to market a lot right around the,

[00:18:20] the bringing it all together has been a theme for them for years.

[00:18:25] Yeah, I know you've been you've been have some experience and are close with that as well but what comes to that and you know what does it mean.

[00:18:33] They're one of the big boys in the industry and so touches a lot of clients and and essentially there's a lot that that stays the same and a lot of collaboration that will be in place.

[00:18:42] Yeah, as they move forward so you know folks are thinking that this is that this is, you know, that this is largely disruptive highly disruptive or a lot of things going on that's not at all the nature of the way these.

[00:18:55] These two are going to carve carve out or split from each other there's a lot of continuity that's been thought about and embedded in this and just lots of different detail I'd be really happy to talk to anybody that has some questions or needs to know more detail but I'd refer

[00:19:11] to things that we've written and spoken on before about them first because we shared a lot of detail in this space.

[00:19:18] Yeah, no absolutely I think the offering is very differentiated it's very strong with the enterprise buyer.

[00:19:24] I think it's getting better with the middle market buyer for global payroll when it comes to you know the work that they've done to to modernize some of their capabilities from engines and and that sort of thing so look I I mean I've been critical of

[00:19:38] the fact that I didn't think alike nurtured this quite the way they should I don't know if the light really understood what they had. And I think this is great right I think HIG is very from from what I'm reading what I'm hearing they're very committed to this business this is

[00:19:51] not a, you know, break it apart kind of a thing they really do see the value in this and want to invest in advance it and you've got a lot of smart people.

[00:19:58] You know that are still a part of this business that are going with it. You know, everything that you're that you're used to from that side of the of the of the organization is really following it and I would even point out I don't know if you mentioned this Julie but but the work day

[00:20:12] benefits element is coming with this so you can still come to the new co for payroll and benefits in a MS within you know your work day instance so and their practice for SAP goes to right all of that stuff so

[00:20:25] Yeah, very differentiated capabilities I hope this will be a boost for them just from an investment and a care perspective and I think it's going to. Yeah I think this is a good move for everyone so we'll love the

[00:20:36] close to it.

[00:20:37] Even when you just think from the investment perspective, Pete, there's a lot of new investment a lot of dynamic things happening in benefits that haven't happened for years between navigation and wellness and so there's that all buys for

[00:20:52] investment dollars on the benefit side of the house and there's certainly more a lot more to do as you develop the global parallel and professional services that business and so, you know that's buying for investment dollars and so just being able to approach

[00:21:08] you know, as a standalone or as a carved out organization, make sure that you know there is investment and I think that's the thing that people are most excited about is, you know, it's not investment shifting from what we would they started here with the payroll

[00:21:24] business and the professional services business, you know and now it's benefits time it's like no like there is there's there's excitement and investment around on both sides of the house and so this gives me a little bit of an identity

[00:21:36] there. Yeah, yeah and good timing to write I mean we just talked about workday right I mean workdays got big international plans and I think a light lights payroll solution and and ams and deployment are going to be a key part of a key partner for them right we already know they are

[00:21:49] when we talk international people, you know, they know a late payment services and the digital wallet like some of those things are our prime time now and they're gathering a lot of excitement out in the marketplace and those things go with the with the new code right yeah

[00:22:04] absolutely

[00:22:05] and our very global in nature and our growing you know growing and thriving parts of the business. Yeah, and more important they can sell workday and they can sell SAP as well. Yes, so not only can they are they a deployer and a reseller or excuse me a service provider but they're also a reseller so look I think they're they're in a great position here.

[00:22:24] Very differentiated capability. They know the market they know they know this, they know the product they know the excuse me the workday product incredibly well.

[00:22:33] And yeah, I think this is good man I'm excited to see how this all evolves so looking forward to catching up with them and a little bit in Congress at Congress there in Nashville.

[00:22:42] Yeah, and, and hey so like just making a weird wonky little touch point here because I think now you're going to tell us a little bit about zealous which used to be a part of the yeah, get a run so you know there's a strange historical connection there right I know right

[00:22:56] so yeah along the same lines right we just saw another divestiture or sale I guess you could say of a payroll, a notable payroll business. So, a packs partners I'm not terribly familiar with them purchased from Bain Capital who bought it in 2017 from what would have been NGA back then or whoever can't remember who owned in

[00:23:15] the market at that time. Pre a light is Ellis right zealous was acquired, but I can say by a packs from Bain. And so if you know zealous zealous was the, I guess, the amalgamation right of some part, excuse me, the I guess it would be the roots of it would have been more pay

[00:23:33] the small market piece from from NGA which was a mostly a UK based kind of solution, as well as some other things they own benefits. I don't know if you remember benefits, as well as a few other solutions so

[00:23:46] yeah, no I'm looking forward to actually talking to them we're having a briefing very soon I think it's in a couple of weeks, or later in May and yeah just looking looking to learn what's going on there but but look more more payroll on the move right payroll is is a growth area and it's a growth industry and

[00:24:02] you're seeing these bigger capital organizations start to start now, you know, not just starting really really acquiring them and building their portfolio around or adding them to their portfolio to build around HR so yeah.

[00:24:15] Another feather in the down market cap right. Yeah, yeah, because because this is always had it this has had its roots in a lot of the small medium sized businesses and where there's a lot of company volume and you know, a lot of companies and not as many employees so we're on the other end of the spectrum.

[00:24:35] Yeah, well I think it's exciting though I mean it sounds like I mean you look they're making investment right I mean that no one's gonna know what capital organization or excuse me what private equity or or or you know investment firm is going to put something put money into something sizable like that if they know it's not going to grow and obviously this is a growth area.

[00:24:52] It's incredibly incredibly important it's growing in importance and look I'm finding as we all know in my payroll profession confidence index that we are way behind on modernization for payroll as a collective organ you know as a collective profession so there is a plenty plenty plenty of runway for

[00:25:11] modernization around payroll HR and so many spaces so I think there's a there's gonna I think there's gonna be more on the move right I think there's gonna be more investment in this and I think you could see even more firms starting to maybe even go public right I think that I think we're getting once the market kind of gets a little probably past the

[00:25:29] election I'm sure we'll start to see maybe some talk of some IPOs as well so yeah yeah yeah.

[00:25:34] Okay I think we're gonna move into a different space here yeah compensation. Yeah we got a couple more right so let's talk real quick here so first of I'm gonna bounce around a little bit I know I have these little bit out of order Julie but I'm gonna say the first one is congrats to deal deal has hit 100 directly owned country legal entities as an ear which is remarkable right there's I know there's might be another couple that have that many but the direct model is really really picking up in the

[00:26:31] time we're talking about this like something notable on the radar from deal so yeah great job guys they are yeah development savages man they are out there pushing it I tell you the goal the goal from them was if you've read any articles of their founders it was to be the

[00:26:46] Apple of HR global HR and so they're they're trying right they're trying to create it all and I think they've done a really good job putting together a nice nice offering and it's starting to it's starting to show up in a lot more places and you know on buyer conversations I'm

[00:26:59] having I'm starting to see them in more partnership conversations so I think you're seeing it mature and and they've really what they what their vision was is really coming to light and it's been exciting to watch it.

[00:27:09] Yeah.

[00:27:10] Yeah so on the long that lines right more you are remote acquired eSOP which is a partner of theirs for equity and comp management so I think this is interesting because I've been saying for a few years now that I think that the or space is going to have to bring in a little bit

[00:27:25] more talent to the to the opportunity excuse me to their to their you know their offering and their delivery model beyond just payroll and sort of benefits and and core HR and time and that's going to mean things like you know learning and development maybe some

[00:27:40] performance management and certainly now compensation management and some other areas are starting to come in so yeah so we'll keep an eye on that remote remote deal and all the yours are quite quite keen competitors so

[00:27:53] I feel like the total rewards is kind of that pivotal that pivotal touch point right yeah across the space.

[00:27:59] Yeah and you got to have it I mean and the equity part I like the fact that there are more firms right we had some great conversations this year was with Jason leave from salt on on the whole equity issue so

[00:28:10] this is equity management in the sense of ownership I believe for employees so good to see right good to see I want to see more more of that going on so yeah awesome alright and

[00:28:21] maybe one last one I don't want to talk a little bit of payroll news if you don't mind but one last acquisition we saw cornerstone picked up tailspin and that that is now bringing in spatial spatial computing capabilities right so

[00:28:35] spatial learning think virtual reality extended reality on the moon.

[00:28:41] Yes, all the realities right I mean and this makes total sense right I mean spatial learning.

[00:28:47] You think about like I've been watching like how they're teaching pilots with augmented reality teaching surgeons.

[00:28:55] You know, I've even seen police officers and security folks trained in virtual reality so wow I mean that's really cool right I mean I've always love the idea of like you know especially when you're when you were younger right Julie think about like all the jobs you

[00:29:09] were curious about but you never would have gotten an opportunity to do or try them but what if you could put on a headset and and suddenly you could try those things and now you're like oh this is interesting I'm you know that that's for me I want to go check that out

[00:29:21] like I think that would be.

[00:29:23] I can just think of so many use cases for this makes total sense right to fit into their world in terms of learning and development and yeah I just I think this is the future this is the stuff we're going to see more of.

[00:29:35] Yeah well that's the price it should come from cornerstone right. Yeah yeah no doubt right they are the leader they have been the leader I would say and of course bought bought their peer right sabba software back a few years ago to really become the mega powerhouse when it comes to

[00:29:50] learning and don't forget they have a beautiful suite of other talent solutions I researched them research them for several years and I would tell you that they have a lot of capabilities around talent you know performance recruiting you name it but also even actually have a decent core HR solution that I've seen a number of customers benefit from in the middle market so yeah cornerstone is just getting stronger I would say in this case yeah.

[00:30:18] Okay let's talk one more thing.

[00:30:20] I think you've probably seen this Julie we'd now we have now have four states I believe or three states again I guess it would be that have signed on for EWA laws so laws to make it that it you know that would make earn wage access.

[00:30:35] More protected I guess you could say as a concept but also protect the consumers that use it so I love seeing this I think this is good.

[00:30:43] I think the absence of legislation sometimes you end up getting some nefarious players so maybe this will maybe this will help.

[00:30:51] I know there's a lot of blurry lines on what whether or not EWA is a good thing or bad thing there's still some some some angst around it and I understand.

[00:30:59] But I'll tell you this Julie when I was looking at my payroll profession confidence index again teasing this because we're going to we're going to launch this I'm going to show this at and you've seen a sneak peek but yes I'm going to show you the payroll Congress when you

[00:31:11] looked at the most impactful digital enablers on a collective basis right it was mostly cloud analytics and mobile right but for the small firm those below 1000 digital payments was number two above those other things.

[00:31:27] So I think that tells you how impactful these can be and I understand that they may be sector specific in some ways particularly you know these may slant more hourly more frontline worker for sure but we're seeing so many statistics of people in the

[00:31:42] you know in the sixth six digit you know salary range starting to have concerns about paycheck to paycheck and all of this.

[00:31:50] I just think that even even if you put a put aside the financial wellness part of this that the the appetite for digital money movement and digital wallets and all of that is increasing right there's so many indicators of it from open banking to earn

[00:32:04] which access to other things.

[00:32:06] This is just the way things are going to go this way this is the way money is moving no pun intended so I think we're going to see more of it.

[00:32:13] Yeah, I disagree and hopefully I think I think things innovations move best when they're not forced.

[00:32:20] So I do think that things are going to move in this direction but when when talk when there's talk of this is the only direction is all got to be digital that's when when folks throttle back and oh yeah I look at the legislation

[00:32:33] in the space and I think like this is this is great to see this legislation.

[00:32:38] And it should be a little bit messy because it's trying to solve for you know pay pay lending and things that are you know messy and by nature and you know and not the best model for folks to actually access and and get funds and so you're

[00:32:54] trying to correct for something that is a you know, a greater concern.

[00:32:59] So I know see some legislation around it.

[00:33:02] Yeah well you know the other thing is to like I don't I don't I never want to see legislation for legislation sake because I think that just suppresses innovation but when it's yeah when it's guard railing the industry a little bit I think that's that's always a good

[00:33:13] I know there's some some folks there are some some antagonist on the other side of this that would say well it's just opening the doors for these for some of the predatory stuff but I think I don't know I feel like it keeps guard some of that but at the same time.

[00:33:29] We've got to lay some sort of some sort of foundational box right some sort of lines in the sand and begin from there and begin to adjust right we I'm sure since the Internet's come out right there's been legislation that changed over time that we as we learn so I'm sure

[00:33:43] that will come with these sort of things as well.

[00:33:45] Absolutely yeah so I think I think we agree that you're going to geek out on pay on something very payroll specific next year.

[00:33:52] Yeah I have I do have one more that I didn't put on the list here Julie but I do want to bring up did you happen to see that they're the non-compete got killed finally at TCA.

[00:34:00] Well, did you see that I did see that and interestingly though there's also still some speculated there's still a lot of context and questions about whether they have the authority to do this right.

[00:34:12] Yeah, so yeah but yeah and interesting and interesting move it's getting a quite a bit of attention and then I see other folks challenging you know well shouldn't it be possible at maybe executives levels and not at you know at daily work daily worker levels and so I think the controversy is just starting here.

[00:34:30] Oh yeah well but here's my thing like okay let's say that this does get you know something happens and maybe they are able to sort of prevent it from being entirely done away with if you will.

[00:34:42] Does this sort of put you know now that this is out there in the media whether it's law or not right.

[00:34:47] Does that put it into the heads of of the community of workers and of of the world to say, you know as I go if I'm if I'm a talent and I'm going to an organization and once got a non competed another one doesn't.

[00:35:00] I mean, you know I can say yeah you might have every legal right to do this but it's a dead it's a dead. It's a dead process and are dying process I guess I would say and you start to deter talent even if it's not illegal right.

[00:35:16] Yeah.

[00:35:17] And it almost becomes a brand stigma you know. Yeah, they've already been just a litany of case challenges and I think that's where it comes from right where where you know there is an argument that says this person has been prevented from gainful employment

[00:35:31] and some of these non competed agreements go you know go probably further beyond what is reasonable, you know in language just probably in the interest of being able to defend them in some way shape or form so yeah I saw it and thanks for adding this to the list because

[00:35:49] I dug around into quite a few different articles on this topic just out of curiosity.

[00:35:54] Yeah, yeah. No I'm going to keep my eye on this because this is I have no doubt this is going to spark debate one way or the other even if it stays.

[00:36:03] You're right I'm sure someone will challenge it. That's what always happens in all you know in anything.

[00:36:09] But but look I think it's a win for workers right and I wonder if it's at least for us workers because I know I've been on the bad end of some of those.

[00:36:18] Thankfully it's never prevented me from making a living but I do know people who have been in really precarious situations and I always thought that you know you it's easy to listen to them and go oh yeah that's terrible that's crappy on the part of that company but then I do understand the

[00:36:31] companies wanting to protect IP and competitive, you know whatever. But come on man people got to make a living.

[00:36:38] And I think we have to be realistic here so so here's my other question to you Julie do you think things like let's say the sticks right let's say we don't have any more non compete, which is somewhat un-American from the way we've operated right like do we get to the does this open

[00:36:52] the doors for more employee friendly things like the four day work week or like you know whatever maybe some better FMLA type or PTO type laws or I don't know whatever you know whatever pick a use case you can find in the workplace that people have angst over as Americans.

[00:37:09] Does this sort of open the door for something you know for us to begin having maybe more employee friendly slant to the way we treat workers in in the United States I'm curious.

[00:37:20] Yeah, you know well that's not a leap out of my mind was actually going in a different direction because I don't know if I'm drawing any you know kind of direct parallels of the non compete or losing non competes with different types of attracting

[00:37:33] Yeah, for employers or employees ultimately what I was thinking of is if this doesn't go away then you know it just makes sense to me that there needs to be either more control or more enforcement for bad actors because

[00:37:47] Yeah, you know I don't think the intent you know you try to do good on one side and you know you maybe open up the door for you know things that are really bad acting and harmful to corporate you know corporations actually you know like making

[00:38:02] making a profit or a margin that's really you know that's reasonable and you can't do that either right so that's where that's where my head was at.

[00:38:10] Yeah, yeah, no that's a good point and I mean yeah you got unions in America there's so many things so many layers of complexity and all this that is interesting but we'll see you know at least I think it's a step in the right direction and I hope we do.

[00:38:22] We do think a little bit more through some of these antiquated ways of which we govern work that maybe made sense that the you know pre war part of America but now like come on are we you know it's a different time where you know we're still not doing right I think by people when it

[00:38:38] comes to time off. I don't think we're doing right by definitely by mothers and maternity you know or even paternity folks going out to take care of children or family members so yeah we got a lot of opportunities so maybe this is one step in that direction I hope

[00:38:52] Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:53] Yeah, okay.

[00:38:54] I'm guessing at least. All right.

[00:38:56] Yeah one last thing so that I think this is positive but I'd love to know your thoughts on this Julie so as you may or may not know did you know it was a leap year first.

[00:39:05] So I didn't know that but I probably didn't think about it as as I didn't think about in the same way you did for yeah well okay if so I saw this online I saw it on the payroll orgs news and it may be smile because I've dealt with this as a

[00:39:20] Parallel leader back in my day but did you know in a leap year you might actually be able to get paid one extra time this year to do that.

[00:39:27] No, and in fact I'm laughing because when I think leap year I'm like what did that happen two months ago why are you telling me.

[00:39:33] Yeah yeah yeah right.

[00:39:35] I know.

[00:39:36] Let me break this down. Yes so in a normal year right you've got 53 sorry you've got one day of the week that will occur 53 times 52 weeks time seven is like 364 days right but in a leap year.

[00:39:48] It could have 366 days and those two days will occur 50.

[00:39:53] Those two days of the week with her 53 times it says so basically for employers that pay on a weekly and by leaky basis and extra payday may occur 53 rather than 52 weekly payers, which would be 27 rather than 26 for biweekly payers.

[00:40:08] So if those pay days fall in the extra days of the week you have to make essentially a 53 or, you know, a 27 payment. Yeah.

[00:40:17] So good news. It does happen to happen it says in 2024 the problem arises for some weekly and biweekly payers with a Monday or Tuesday payday because January one is a Monday, and the 2024 is a leap year, although by weekly payers whose first payday

[00:40:32] year was January eight or nine will not have the issue so I'm sure payroll managers are all over this I'm sure employees might even be all over this but I forgot about this little bit of good news if you're if you're an employee that you may and I actually think, are you actually paying them an

[00:40:46] actual one are you actually just paying them the next one early.

[00:40:50] It depends on the cycle I guess. Yeah, for sure for sure all I'm thinking is, I have to go there's a copilot out there that's just making this whole thing go you know like go away or happen, you know, smooth and seamlessly but thank God for payroll practitioners who wake up the year of Jan one of a leap year

[00:41:10] and go, Okay, this year is going to be one of those, you know, like, oh yeah, right. We have two seasons of locusts that are coming this year. Well, the reality is just to be fair for those of you who aren't in payroll the reality is when you're setting your calendar at the end of a year

[00:41:25] end you're already kind of eyeing this and preparing for this systemically and yeah so it's really I would say this really ultimately comes down to less about the payroll leaders, knowing about it and preparing for it it's them communicating

[00:41:38] it and that's I found always was the confusion when we had to deal with it of, we had so many pay cycles. Yeah, it was just too much but but we would have two questions right obviously so we would try to head that off because there is going to be that confusion for those that will see that

[00:41:53] extra paycheck, you know, and believe it or not people will call and say hey I think I might have been overpaid, which is great. Good to see people are honest. I was going to say I was going to say on the flip side like if you if you haven't given a second thought

[00:42:05] I hope we're not going to create a rush on the poor payroll department where people are going what is my extra I know that I'm getting this year. Yeah, yeah right we probably just created a whole we probably just created a lot of the a lot of the communication needs just right now so anyway, go check that out though I think it's

[00:42:22] interesting I forgot I had totally forgot about that little thing and I wouldn't be how often do we have a leap year do you know the formula that I don't know is it every other.

[00:42:30] I don't know anyway. Oh my God I'm going to show my stupidity I know I would have said it's okay we're not your experts here Rachel experts Rachel experts are not leads to leap year experts but anyway.

[00:42:41] Yeah, yeah yeah so that's the news. Look I hopefully everyone likes these new we had actually a lot of outreach commending us for these news episodes so I hope that carving them off has made it made it helpful if it if it has or hasn't let us know what you think we'd love to know.

[00:42:57] And yeah I mean we probably could have spent a whole episode just on workday maybe even in a whole episode just on ADPs updates but um.

[00:43:05] Yeah, really good stuff.

[00:43:07] I was right. It's every four years.

[00:43:09] Every four okay there you go.

[00:43:11] I think I just said something stupid I have to do that.

[00:43:14] We resolve we resolve that yeah every four years you have a leap year so every four years payroll has to deal with this nonsense.

[00:43:21] But this is the stuff that payroll is doing it's a Rubik's Cube people it really is back there.

[00:43:26] And what you see going on, you know, day to day is nothing compared to what payroll is actually doing behind the scenes so give your payroll people some love they're dealing with leap years and all kinds of problems.

[00:43:38] Yeah.

[00:43:41] Let's let's get back to the teaser because yes we're both going to be together apparel Congress which you have long coined as the Super Bowl of payroll.

[00:43:49] It's the Super Bowl week this is Super Bowl week I'm so excited Julie, I am going to be there all week I'm going to take it all in as I always do.

[00:43:56] I'm doing a lot I know you're doing a lot.

[00:43:58] But let's talk about what we're doing on Wednesday that the executive summit that's going to be so exciting.

[00:44:03] Yes, it will be because I think this is the first time right.

[00:44:06] Yes, for the pay the payroll Congress event that they have an executive summit and they have, you know, some folks who are carved out and have their own agenda, and they're having some different conversations along with some the same conversation.

[00:44:18] Yeah, event within an event and I love it because we're going to be bringing awareness to executive leaders about what payroll, what's really going on with payroll and how should they be thinking about it.

[00:44:27] I'm so excited because I'm dripping in some of the payroll profession confidence index results that we won't unveil until Friday at Congress if you're going to be at Congress please come to that unveil I'd love to share that with you and I will be giving personally

[00:44:42] to the attendees a copy advance before it goes out a few weeks later so or a week or two later so please.

[00:44:49] That just seems so unfair Pete have to wait till the very end of the conference because I know what you've done with that survey is so I mean it's just so amazing and I can't wait for people to see it I had the privilege of taking a little sneak peek as we were getting ready for our joint session together and it's just awesome.

[00:45:08] Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it's a labor of love so congratulate you congratulations. Yes, thank you I'm proud of it I love what you know I look there's there's there's some good stories in here there's some bad stories in here but we you know bottom line.

[00:45:21] I'm excited for it I think I think it turned out exactly the way I thought it would.

[00:45:26] And it's just the beginning we're going to be doing a lot more from that data so I really appreciate everybody being a part of it and thank you for that feedback so yeah so we'll be talking about that and what else do you have going on there.

[00:45:36] Well hey I was just going to say as part of that executive session that you and I are doing together. We're going to lean on some snippets and sound bites from your findings which are brand brand new, and then kind of weave those into what we're calling a think tank right so sometimes

[00:45:54] sessions are just more content or different content coming at somebody but you know I think our joint aim is really to get some discussion going and to engage right in a way that we all want to be engaging our employees our managers and, and all of our constituents

[00:46:10] and to create a form where the leaders are really engaged in talking about payroll strategy and how they can drive outcomes in a very actionable way.

[00:46:23] Yeah, absolutely I just hope that what we have as a dialogue I'm hoping for this is my goal is a dialogue around what you know what these executives don't understand or know about payroll right and what they should know.

[00:46:36] There's, you know, it's incredible. The difference and that's one of the things I saw in the payroll profession confidence index I call it the PPCI now that when executives are leaning into their payroll organizations as a champion as a supporter.

[00:46:51] The results are absolutely night and day different, and the impact to strategic value is, I think three or four X so I want to show that to everyone and I hope that's what they come away with his understanding that payroll is more than what you might think.

[00:47:06] And if you're not thinking about it this way you're you're at a disadvantage so that's what I'm really hoping for.

[00:47:11] Yeah, and you know so I'm at the other end my session is on Tuesday before even our joint executive summit day from one to two o'clock local and I'll be talking about payroll and creating and and really harvesting stakeholder relations so you know forever in a day payroll there's

[00:47:32] a long question of should payroll sit with HR should payroll sit with finance and the stakeholder map for payroll is just more complicated I think than any other function in the organization and yeah, and so there's always questions about about how you know like not only where

[00:47:48] you payroll sit but a little bit more importantly, regardless of where you set. How do you have to, you know, how do you work your relationship with, you know, not just HR and finance but it or operations were time keeping off and sets or shared services if you're in an organization where

[00:48:04] you know, yes, that's a thing right. And then it bleeds into all sorts of interesting topics that go to our seat at the table to go to the you know what skills or how you're even recruiting and and thinking about a payroll role.

[00:48:18] And it reminds me of the conversation that we've had recently with Karen on from Australia on, you know, like the nature the very nature of payroll and a lot of other jobs in our organization are changing.

[00:48:31] And so what does that mean for skills what does it mean for the relationships internally between and among the functions and and that's where I'm going on Tuesday, or that's where I'll be talking on Tuesday.

[00:48:43] Oh yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I'm signed up I'll be there I'll be tweeting for you Julie. I want to learn I want to learn anyway but yeah no I'll be in there making sure to be your be your biggest fan.

[00:48:53] But no for sure look for us while you're there let's let's that's the thing I love about payroll Congress this is one of the most unique events and all of I look I feel like I'm a professional event goers in some ways.

[00:49:04] I've probably been more than most and very privileged very very privileged to do that I don't take a minute of it for granted I don't take a single event for granted but I think that the payroll org event is is I mean they've been doing this for what are we talking now this is the 40 something right.

[00:49:19] 40 second.

[00:49:20] 40 second.

[00:49:21] 40 second.

[00:49:22] 40 second. Yeah, look, they've been doing this for a minute they know how to do events and I'll tell you it's one of the most well thought out events I've ever been to just the little details I think I was telling you like the little things like the spouses coordination for not necessarily spouses but partners that come to the event right something to do for them.

[00:49:40] Just little stuff right the costume contest, the awards the there's so many little ways in which they put a lot of neat little touches to this that it's a it's not just education and networking it's a lot of fun.

[00:49:51] And it's very, very comfortable and accommodating for everyone so if you've never been you're missing it and if you if you're going to get get get with us let's get together let's I've already set up I don't know how many meetings.

[00:50:04] And I'm sure there's going to be many more in the hallways and we're going to try to do some recording while we're there and I know it's just going to be the fun that it always is so.

[00:50:11] That's right.

[00:50:12] Yeah please please reach out I think we both posted that you know we're there we're going to be speaking and we really do value the chance to get to, you know, to talk with folks one on one or in groups or as part of your organization so yeah don't hesitate.

[00:50:28] That's part of that's part of the privilege of being able to be at an event as being able to meet and talk to folks that you're not usually co located. Yeah, and the learning I mean the learning and the trading of information is super.

[00:50:40] And again, I say it's the Super Bowl payroll because it is it really is you catch people from around the world come to this.

[00:50:48] And that's what's exciting right is seeing payroll come together for each other.

[00:50:52] Great community so yeah.

[00:50:54] Well good. That's anything else Julian thing else you need to I know you've got the light article going around I'll make sure I put that in here for people to see what else anything else going on. Oh well thanks for that I actually probably if I haven't, if we haven't posted it yet.

[00:51:07] I have one of my micro surveys open and I'm so excited for this one now that we're past the payroll confidence survey.

[00:51:14] We've pulled together. Yeah, this is intelligent automation in HR and if there's something that you know folks are talking about everywhere wide and far it's AI and even beyond that intelligent automation these micro surveys are, you know, kind of my practitioner

[00:51:32] to take bite size bits of Intel and pass it along for other practitioners and so it's literally 15 questions. Yeah, we'll put a link to that as well I think I got we're going to close it here at the end of the month I might read it open actually right through payroll

[00:51:50] Congress just in case there's some other folks. Yeah shoot that over to me I don't know if I have that Julie so if you can email me that I'll make sure I share it and we'll get it in here to the description so everybody can have that so yeah.

[00:52:00] Absolutely. Yeah, thanks for the chance to mention that these surveys are important right and they're a labor of love like you say. Yeah, no they're great post surveys are good we can get some good info we can help direct some things so help us out help us help you I guess is the way I would look at it

[00:52:16] Yeah, so what about you were what else is on your radar as the event goer event goers. Oh wow let's see Congress is going to happen and then we've got I've got the UKG analysts update right after that so I'll be able to share what's going on at UKG.

[00:52:30] And what else I'll also be at the Walk Me. I don't know if you know Walk Me their employee experience solution, you know user experience solution that is having their analyst day the week before that so I have some updates from that as well.

[00:52:43] And then of course on into summer we got cornerstone and some other ones so yeah just on the road until summer I guess you could say. Yeah, it's a labor of love. Yeah, and look for the payroll.

[00:52:53] Yeah, look for the payroll profession confidence index to come out as well come out right after right after Congress so.

[00:52:59] Oh good. All right, that's a lot that's a mouthful and give us your feedback on how you like it's kind of bundling the news together instead of a little bit up front in each of them maybe it's easier to find the news if we do this.

[00:53:11] Yeah, it felt a little disruptive to our guests so I thought we could just carve it away from that at least.

[00:53:16] When we do episodes on our own I think it's probably easy but when we have guests it's a little it felt a little awkward so that we could carve it off and we've had some great feedback from that so I think it's I think it'll work out maybe do a monthly thing or depends on what's going on right there was a hot this was kind of a hot and heavy month so we had lots of talk about but

[00:53:33] Thank you Julie it's always great thank you everyone for joining us and we will we'll talk to you soon.