Are Remote Employees Becoming Less Engaged?

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, it's Tim Sackett. We're back with another episode of HR Famous today. It's just me and

[00:00:13] I wasn't gonna say me and my girl Jessica Lee. I can kind of say that it like it doesn't sound like

[00:00:18] you're my like my girl. Like we're friends right? Like because if you're like my boy like people

[00:00:25] aren't gonna go oh my gosh like there's anything I can say any kind of tation.

[00:00:29] It's my girl. It's my girl Jessica Lee. Jessica, how are you doing?

[00:00:34] It's the dynamic duo Tim, Jessica. I'm good and you know I think I when people I know them well call

[00:00:41] me like oh this is my girl hey girl I'm okay with that but like if you don't know me and you're

[00:00:46] calling me a girl then it's a problem but I'm all good. I'm like you know New Year's resolution

[00:00:55] trying to make it happen trying to get some muscle tone built isn't that like amazing like everyone else.

[00:01:02] I'm gonna focus on weights and strength this year rather than cardio that's the goal.

[00:01:09] Yeah you know we talked about New Year's resolutions I think one of the last episodes but

[00:01:12] like I definitely need I need to add like to my I need to add stretching like the

[00:01:18] owner I did like I talked to like I was I was in Boston at the end of last year and met with one

[00:01:23] of my high school friends and he's like fantastic shape and I'm like dude like literally come on

[00:01:29] like and he's always been like really you know good shape he was a college athlete this whole

[00:01:32] thing but like he's very purposeful about like what he does and I'm like so what are you doing

[00:01:37] like literally he has this regimen where like 30 minutes every day he's like all I do is stretch

[00:01:42] like I have all these stretches I do and I'm like and he looks amazing I'm like you're

[00:01:47] stretching I mean he doesn't and again you know he doesn't eat awful I mean he doesn't eat great but

[00:01:52] you know he also but like the stretching thing really helps I'm like I need to stretch I need

[00:01:57] to stretch oh I agree with that and like there's all sorts of apps now about like how to improve

[00:02:03] your elasticity they have stretching gyms now as well I don't know who goes to them but

[00:02:09] I am like I need to as well like I can't even touch my toes I like I can't and

[00:02:16] actually we like my kids can do the splits I'm so inflexible I'm gonna start stretching that's a good one

[00:02:23] yeah that is well we don't have Madeline here we don't have Madeline this year this week

[00:02:28] otherwise we could get into her because she runs a lot I'm sure she stretches she's always in

[00:02:32] great shape but she couldn't make it so it's just you and I and we have like three

[00:02:38] like topics that we're pretty passionate about like we kind of went back and forth on

[00:02:42] on text and we like literally want to talk about them I'm going to start with this one because

[00:02:47] we this could just be taking note at some point like in the middle of next year 2024 we

[00:02:52] we probably we won't even have like a podcast it'll just be this AI that like in our like

[00:02:57] they'll it'll copy our voice and we'll just like tell it like what we want to talk about

[00:03:03] and then it will come on and it'll be perfect Jessica Tim and Madeline conversation

[00:03:07] that we don't have no ideas even taking place this chat GPT stuff I want to want to say it's scary

[00:03:14] I'm completely fascinated so people who don't know open AI released chat GPT which is kind of

[00:03:24] an AI driven I don't even know what to call it like I mean it's just artificial intelligence

[00:03:30] that you can like ask it questions like you can say hey like in the voice of Tim Sackett

[00:03:38] write a 500 word blog post on why recruiting is so amazing right and holy crap it like because it has

[00:03:46] all the like thousands of posts I've done in the past and within seconds it just starts

[00:03:52] you can watch it write it in seconds it writes the whole thing and I'm like maybe

[00:03:57] it's not perfectly in my voice and maybe it's not perfectly what I would say but holy crap it's probably

[00:04:03] 80% of the way there and so then like what do you like you so you and I talked about like from a

[00:04:11] learning perspective like what's the potential for this and I think from like the recruiting

[00:04:16] perspective because we already know conversational AI is doing a lot with like mass volume hiring

[00:04:23] and stuff like that I'm like but it still has some tweaks one of the things that conversational AI

[00:04:28] still struggles with is when a candidate goes completely off script or a candidate is just

[00:04:36] frustrated knowing that they're in this kind of process of chat they just want to get out of

[00:04:40] it and they want to talk to a real human the AI has a real struggle with that and I think as

[00:04:46] this is GBT-GPT3 they said like maybe Q1 of this year Q2 it'll be GBT4 will be released

[00:04:55] which is they say like I don't even know how they measure this is 10 times more like better in terms

[00:05:00] of accuracy and just better but like now if you would go if you're a candidate and like the

[00:05:08] you know the conversational AI would go of what's your name and you give me your name what's

[00:05:13] your email and then you're like hey I just I just really want to talk to a real person

[00:05:17] back to you and say oh I totally understand like you know so I can get you do the right person

[00:05:23] you know can you tell me what you want to talk about you know I you know I don't really want to

[00:05:26] apply to a job I really just have a quick question before I would go down that path about

[00:05:32] like where specifically the location is let's say I'm in like Dallas Fort Worth and I live in

[00:05:38] Fort Worth and this thing's in North Dallas there's no way I want that job because it takes

[00:05:41] too long to communicate you know and this it would come back and say okay hold on a second I'll

[00:05:45] suddenly come back and say um what can I help you with you know I mean it would totally

[00:05:51] understand and be able to kind of have that conversation and I'm just like this can be

[00:05:56] a game changer at so many levels on the learning side like what do you where do you

[00:06:01] but what's the potential of this oh my gosh well so like I feel like people have to actually

[00:06:06] try it out themselves to really see how powerful it is and before I answer your question like the

[00:06:14] thing that made me a believer so my husband has been like messing around with it he'll keep

[00:06:19] sending me these things saying look I just asked it to do this and I'm like oh that's interesting

[00:06:24] but then I decided I was like okay tell it to write me a letter as if I just I said tell it to

[00:06:30] say tell it to write a thank you letter after having had a job interview and when it spit

[00:06:35] back the results to me I was like oh my gosh this is really good so I think you got to see it to

[00:06:41] really believe it for yourself come with the question you want it to respond to and then see it and

[00:06:47] now that I've had a chance to see it I think anytime there is a an exercise or a task that

[00:06:54] involves writing I whether it's learning or otherwise like I can imagine a world where I say

[00:06:59] I need to write a business email about abnc and it's simply doing a first draft where I get into the

[00:07:06] mode of in my case maria tizing it or putting it a little bit more my voice but it's going to get

[00:07:11] smarter over time or also just being the one to edit so that it feels more me I just feel like

[00:07:17] the time savings that exists to not have to stare at a blank email a blank word document

[00:07:23] a blank power point and have something as like that starting point um is really fascinating

[00:07:29] because I think people are going to be scared of it like oh this is going to take jobs or this is

[00:07:33] going to take you know creativity out of it but like Madeline kind of mentioned this at one point

[00:07:37] around like there's a different skill set that potentially starts to emerge and I just think

[00:07:42] like there's this opportunity to accelerate and do things more quickly um and really like put the

[00:07:48] value add effort into making it more in voice of your company making it more specific to you

[00:07:54] and I think when it comes to like developing a writing learning content whether it's like the

[00:07:58] visuals the writing whatever it might be I just think there's so much opportunity here let alone

[00:08:04] like you can like all the customer service and other business you know use cases that are out

[00:08:09] there it's just writing I feel like and actually Katie and I've talked about this I don't know

[00:08:14] that we have a strong of a writing culture today and I think that we're always looking around

[00:08:19] to say like who are the good writers around us and so for me this has so much potential

[00:08:25] no I I'm totally bought in the other piece of this that I think people don't really

[00:08:29] I'm working on a on a um a keynote that I'm going to develop I'm going to deliver at HRM

[00:08:35] so the HR Tech Asia basically in Singapore in May and it's employee 3.0 so if you think about

[00:08:42] like this evolution of employees from laborers which was the vast majority of human history

[00:08:47] we've been laborers we actually had to do the work and then over the last really 30 40 years we've

[00:08:51] kind of had this creator economy it started with like animation and you know and kind of now is

[00:08:57] like I mean everybody's a creator right with this advent of this kind of you know very purposeful

[00:09:03] AI um we become narrators we no longer have to create you no longer have to sit and write a

[00:09:09] business email AI will do that for you but you have to narrate the voice you want the

[00:09:14] topics you want um so you still have to know but then somebody else is going to be doing the work

[00:09:20] right it's almost like having like your own kind of administrative assistant but you know but at a

[00:09:25] level where the administrative assistant actually knows everything and the other piece that I

[00:09:31] think will start to see come out in technology is like think about yourself and like an LMS

[00:09:37] and like okay so you you go out you do an RFP and you get this big LMS and you do some

[00:09:42] configuration you do some customization and then literally after 60 days of using it you go

[00:09:49] there's one more thing that I would love to have changed right or do differently

[00:09:53] in you and I've been around like another you go okay well the software company will go for sure

[00:09:57] we can do that it's going to be six figures it's going to take nine months and you know

[00:10:02] and then at the end when it's done it still won't be the way you want imagine now as an LMS

[00:10:07] like or a learning leader like you could actually just go and talk to the AI in real time it would

[00:10:12] show you what you're narrating like here's what I want then you show it and go oh wait a minute

[00:10:17] I didn't actually want that there I want it over here and I wanted to do this

[00:10:21] and then the AI would be going well realize if you do this it's going to have some downstream

[00:10:24] impact okay okay so then I don't want that like it's just this narration of what we want to do

[00:10:31] becomes really this employee 3.0 and I'm like super excited and hopeful right about what potentially

[00:10:37] that could that could do I mean it creates a whole other host of potential issues around

[00:10:43] like the just the vast capacity that will increase and so then we start to go wait a minute you know

[00:10:49] what do we do then with you know all these people that don't have to work you know 40,

[00:10:53] 50, 60 hours a week anymore because AI is doing so much of this but it's the potential is amazing

[00:10:59] you know like on a very basic level like this is um this is what I'm gonna say is very basic but

[00:11:05] I think it's very real I feel like this is going to force us like there's a behavior change so just

[00:11:11] like as an example when I've called a customer service like number for something recently like

[00:11:16] it said to me tell me what kind of help you're looking for and it's wanting for you to

[00:11:21] converse and I'm like I know this is a machine I'm talking about too so I won't talk to

[00:11:25] it like a human I'll say help with a restaurant reservation or like you know something that doesn't

[00:11:31] like I'm trying to sound like a robot thinking I'm talking to a robot and it's really hard to

[00:11:36] like break yourself out of that because like I found myself like at one point yelling operator

[00:11:41] operator and it's probably not even for me to say I'm a real person yeah I want to talk to

[00:11:47] real person I'm just yelling operator human and it's like I don't even know how to talk

[00:11:51] conversation to a machine even though it's wanting me to and being trained to like look for my

[00:11:57] human conversation so I can't like wrap my head around it fully I got some some rewiring that needs

[00:12:03] to be done in my own brain no I know it's it is one of those kind of crazy things I just um

[00:12:10] you know I've been doing this kind of diagnostic and interviewing all these people here in the

[00:12:13] last week and um and I take notes like I just a note taker I like like writing down on

[00:12:18] like pen and paper and one of the people I was um that I'm actually doing this with

[00:12:24] was like hey can we just turn on transcription on like teams oh and so I did it and I'm talking

[00:12:30] but I'm finding myself watching myself talk like it's like immediately in real time

[00:12:35] transcribing what I'm saying and I'm like this I can't you have to turn it off you can't

[00:12:39] like it's so yeah it's so distracting and then I was talking to somebody who's first language

[00:12:46] they're from India so is that is that not farce what's it um anyways there's a lot of languages yeah

[00:12:52] so there's so English as a second language was a little broken not bad I mean very good but like

[00:12:57] you know I was like shocked at how this transcription was just money like it was right on

[00:13:03] in terms of being able to describe that as well and I'm just like wow like

[00:13:07] yeah like the technology and the ability for them to kind of be aware and and pick up like

[00:13:13] all of this stuff um we're in for we're in for some big changes so more to come I mean really

[00:13:20] over the last what probably four weeks this is exploded and in technology is actually behind

[00:13:28] this right now I mean they're behind the eight ball on this there's there's not enough people

[00:13:32] I think testing this out from a technology perspective to really understand how like how

[00:13:37] robust this could be and so I think over the next like 2023 2024 we're going to see more and more

[00:13:44] technology really come out think about employee services think about like you know self-service

[00:13:49] all the stuff um to actually be having employees to be able in real time real voice just say look I

[00:13:57] need to know what my vacation you know balance is and how do I actually tell somebody I you know

[00:14:02] I need to take you know next Monday off or yeah whatever and like within I mean literally seconds

[00:14:07] like hey Tim you have this many hours and and then can I help you um you know turn in you know

[00:14:15] schedule that time and you know and even like from imagine like employees with their benefits

[00:14:20] like how hard it is like oh I know I need to go to the doctor and get my annual physical

[00:14:26] but it sucks to have to call and go like what's your insurance and wants this and just to be

[00:14:31] able to go and say yeah you know what I need to go get my annual physical can you schedule that for me

[00:14:36] and like just did it it like it's just done and you'll be like okay I am in love with whatever your

[00:14:42] AI name is can you please I need that I need that in my life I need that you know by the way

[00:14:48] you're also like on your lunch hour you're sitting there watching your tiktoks and you

[00:14:52] turn the AI on and said hey I need to order my groceries here's what I want and then it

[00:14:56] just does it oh can it order like my kids stuff like you know I mean your homework yeah

[00:15:05] oh great I love it I mean I'm just gonna sit back and watch more Netflix while it does the work I love

[00:15:12] it I know the dystopian version of all of this becomes we're all sitting in some barca lounger

[00:15:17] with a headset on getting fat and like being fed through a tube I actually think I always I

[00:15:22] think the hopeful vision of all of this becomes you now can actually work eight or 10 hours a week

[00:15:30] and you can spend all that other extra capacity doing good for the world doing good for your kids

[00:15:35] doing good for yourself like to me it just it opens up a better version of the world that we

[00:15:40] would want to have right well I mean this is like kind of related to you know an episode

[00:15:46] we did where we were talking about what women executives potentially outsource in terms of

[00:15:53] you know labor so that they can be an executive I mean if I could outsource some of these things to AI

[00:15:58] so that I have more time to do the things that you know really matter like that's part of that

[00:16:04] that vision of you know a utopian future not dystopian future that like you're

[00:16:09] painting for me where I can like do things with my kids or enrich my own self in some ways so

[00:16:16] I want to be active with you yeah like don't you think a lot of the stress we carry to is not really

[00:16:21] I'm not stressful about like my my relationships and my kids or I'm not stressful about my job

[00:16:26] or I'm not stressful about my physical well I'm stressful about it all because it all doesn't

[00:16:32] fit so you're constantly making these priority decisions and if we had the ability to actually

[00:16:37] have that kind of help in our life like all of a sudden all of that kind of mental well-being

[00:16:42] and stress kind of just melts away and we can actually focus on you know still be I mean imagine

[00:16:47] if you only had to work 10 hours a week versus the 70 that you work now like you're constantly on

[00:16:54] but imagine like if it's all you knew you had to do is like hey I'm gonna do two hours today

[00:16:58] you could be amazing in two hours like you could like you would be such a better employee

[00:17:03] you'd be such a better spouse a better mom a better whatever like all of that stuff becomes better

[00:17:08] so again I'm I'm very I have a very utopian hope of that versus I think a lot of people are scared

[00:17:14] as hell of like the AI like somehow running our lives and taking over and I'm like eh

[00:17:19] they can take over a lot of that crap we do all right we're gonna switch gears

[00:17:24] HBR the harboury business review launched an article I sent it to you guys because I was so

[00:17:31] like taken aback by how bad it was and the data wasn't bad so here's the title no comma

[00:17:38] remote employees aren't becoming less engaged because we've heard from a lot of CEOs and companies

[00:17:43] that are saying hey come back to work because productivity is down engagement like all of these

[00:17:49] things and so from the University of Texas at Austin and a researcher basically went out and said

[00:17:56] oh well let's let's verify if this is true or not and all they did was pull data from like teams

[00:18:04] and outlook and and they made this correlation to say oh it looks like people who work remotely have

[00:18:12] more teams meetings and more spontaneous teams meetings so they must be more engaged

[00:18:20] and I'm like huh and immediately my the question popped in to say if I'm in the office working

[00:18:28] and I need to go have a spontaneous meeting because Jessica's down the hall and I have a

[00:18:32] question for her I'm not going to call you on teams I'm going to walk 50 feet down the hall

[00:18:36] and I'm going to have a conversation with you that's never going to show up as measurable

[00:18:42] as a measurable like piece of data and so I'm like that that's the dumbest thing I've

[00:18:47] heard in my life is to believe that more meetings equals more engaged or more measurable

[00:18:52] especially when you're talking one or the other and then a lot of this you couldn't even like

[00:18:56] nobody was using teams three years ago right before the pandemic so it's like you can't

[00:19:01] sit there and say of course like if you take a look at teams meetings every single year

[00:19:05] in office out of office it worked from anywhere the numbers have gone through the roof because

[00:19:10] they just keep because we keep using these not these tools more and more and so I'm just like

[00:19:15] Jay like feed like give me some feedback on this entire like how like engagement equals more meetings

[00:19:23] I'm shocked by this I'm totally shocked by it too I mean first I do love me some HBR and I was so

[00:19:31] like my latest issue come in the mail I still get it in the mail because I want like that

[00:19:35] tangible thing to flip through and read but like for them to do this piece on engagement as

[00:19:42] defined by meetings I feel like is just a little bit of a silly proposition because you and I and

[00:19:50] I think everyone listening have been on plenty of meetings or calls where you have people there

[00:19:57] who are not even engaged in the conversation they may not have their camera on or maybe

[00:20:03] they do have their camera on but you're pretty sure they're multitasking the whole time like for

[00:20:08] me engagement is like about you know people's level of commitment and happiness with something or

[00:20:16] how much they're interacting like simply showing up does not mean that you are engaged and you

[00:20:21] know the same goes for like simply showing up in like you know the whole argument about hybrid

[00:20:26] and coming back to work somebody's showing up to work doesn't also mean that you're engaged

[00:20:29] either like presence in and of itself whether it's virtual or in office you know doesn't

[00:20:35] mean engagement and I think that like for you know us to quantify engagement as simply meeting

[00:20:41] with one another just is like this really wacky way to measure it because I think there are a lot of

[00:20:47] people that show up for something but doesn't mean they're engaged doesn't mean you're engaged

[00:20:53] no I mean there's going to be people that show up to work every day and they're even early

[00:20:56] and they even stay late and they could be some of your like least engaged people that you have

[00:21:00] yeah just know how to play the game better I had the same issue with productivity and

[00:21:04] performance where the the people who are pro like remote work are just like remote work

[00:21:11] it's proven that we're more productive and I'm like that's the dumbest con that's when you say

[00:21:17] that immediately I discount your intelligence because I'm like no here's what you understand is

[00:21:22] that you're you're either more productive the same productive or lower productive everybody's

[00:21:28] going to fall in that spectrum somewhere and just because you change from being in

[00:21:33] office to going home you actually might be more productive good good job you might be at least

[00:21:37] you might be like the same productive but there's a lot of people that will also be way lower

[00:21:42] productive because now they have so many other things you know that are that are happening in

[00:21:45] their house you know that they're not used to or whatever that might be to say blank like

[00:21:51] broadly that you're going to say everybody is more productive who works remotely is just dumb

[00:21:55] like it's just the same thing of saying hey just because we bring everybody back to the

[00:21:59] office they're going to be more productive that's also another dumb statement right because you have

[00:22:03] people who will come back to the office and because of the commute because of the stress because of

[00:22:07] whatever they'll actually be a lower productive but you'll also have people that will be more

[00:22:11] productive our goal as organizations and leaders should be let's find the environment

[00:22:16] you are most productive in actually measurably most productive not what you feel is most

[00:22:21] productive yeah let us help you like get in and be in that environment the most that you can

[00:22:26] right and I think people struggle with that they don't understand there is like no

[00:22:31] I want to work at home I was talking I was interviewing a potential HR leader for a client the other day

[00:22:38] and she was just like well is this is this fully remote and in literally the actual

[00:22:42] corporate headquarters from where she lives is like she's like it's not even a three-minute

[00:22:46] drive from my house oh my gosh and she goes I will only go in one day a week I want four days

[00:22:52] remote and I'm like they're only asking right now they're hybrid so they're two three and she

[00:22:59] hit she had in the again way better job way better pay and she was like nope and I'm just like wow

[00:23:07] like and this is a high level like leading HR kind of like for an organization that's pretty

[00:23:12] fairly large and I was just like okay you know good for you I guess if you don't I mean

[00:23:17] but I was just shocked by that like so turned off that you know you just like there was no way

[00:23:22] she was changing her schedule and I'm like okay like you know I guess that's for you but

[00:23:27] back to the hbr thing um I just I'm I'm always like fascinated by how academics think versus

[00:23:35] like people who are actually practitioners in the field yeah to believe that they can they can

[00:23:39] measure engagement by some random thing like meeting and schedules and how crazy that is

[00:23:45] all right by the way though before we move on from the topic just as like a point of irony

[00:23:50] like I have to say at least for us in our in a corporate setting one of the things that we've

[00:23:57] been spending some good time trying to contemplate is people actually have meeting fatigue and are

[00:24:03] quite frustrated and there's a high level low they're low not I would I don't want to call it

[00:24:09] low engagement the potential for lower engagement because people have meeting fatigue and so we've

[00:24:13] actually been trying to get creative around how do you get really crisp and sharp on when do

[00:24:17] you need a meeting who needs to be in the meeting because in a virtual environment it's just become

[00:24:21] too easy to just have a bunch of people invited and show up and then not know what do they need

[00:24:27] to do in it so I actually worry that the opposite is is um uh the thing that needs to be looked at

[00:24:33] is like over reliance on meetings like people don't want to be in meetings all day they want to

[00:24:37] be able to step away and actually do the work so I don't know I don't know about this I

[00:24:43] always like I've had this happen in a couple of like large enterprise organizations where

[00:24:48] when I was a leader it happened to me first like in my career early in my career and then as I became

[00:24:52] a leader I just like stole the idea and adopted it and it worked so well which was I will not come

[00:24:57] to a meeting where you don't send me an agenda 24 hours before love that in in that agenda has

[00:25:04] to be a detailed agenda with who's going to be there the timing of like the topics you want

[00:25:09] and the things you want to talk about because what you would find immediately is people that

[00:25:13] would schedule you for an hour they really only need 15 minutes or 30 minutes or whatever or if they

[00:25:18] if they didn't find it valuable enough to actually have an agenda and for me to show up then I

[00:25:24] you know I was just you're just you're wasting our time and our resources and I wasn't going to

[00:25:29] do it and the number of meetings like falls in the like the length of meetings falls

[00:25:34] and so like and again if you want to have a meeting and you want to pull in a bunch of people

[00:25:39] and a bunch of resources from the company then value our time and send us an agenda and let

[00:25:44] us know what we're talking about and then again if there's something I need to bring to that meeting

[00:25:48] if there's something you're going to have me lead in that agenda whatever that might be

[00:25:52] but like I've showed up to way too many meetings and like big enterprise corporate

[00:25:55] settings that all of a sudden somebody would call like I would like I get you know got invited

[00:25:59] and then like we're in the meeting and then they would go okay Tim can you like help us with this

[00:26:05] I'm like like totally unprepared like what are you talking about like I I got invited to come here

[00:26:10] and you're now asking me to lead this meeting like what the hell's going on

[00:26:14] an agenda and a pre read those are things I love I love it all right so we just came out

[00:26:20] of the holiday season we saw a lot of companies either or they were going to a bunch of layoffs

[00:26:26] right we're still going to see layoffs in this year but when you do layoffs the hard thing to do is like

[00:26:31] hey let's have your end bonuses and parties and like all this stuff so like we started to see

[00:26:38] this like this cost cutting coming in the last month or two and you know J you and I wanted to

[00:26:45] have a discussion as we take a look at like office parties and like all these like like

[00:26:52] free food like in the startups like all this stuff is getting canceled now is some of this stuff

[00:26:57] should it be canceled should like like can we still have great employee experience and

[00:27:02] events without spending like tons and tons of money I'll tell you and I'll start it with here

[00:27:07] and then I'll give it to you as one of the best things we do in our own office is like every

[00:27:12] like and it seems like just random like somebody one of our my leaders will go hey it's been

[00:27:17] a while since we've had lunch let's do a potluck our potlucks are amazing we have people who love to

[00:27:23] cook everybody brings a dish to pass and we come in and have more food than is humanly possible to

[00:27:28] eat and and everybody's happy and everybody's conversing we spend time together and at the

[00:27:34] end of the day there's no money spent I mean there's money in terms of you bought a dish

[00:27:37] to pass but you're probably gonna have lunch anyways and I'm like that's to me is like

[00:27:42] a low budget way to have like great employee experience and we just tend to forget about that

[00:27:47] stuff now it's just like oh the company will pay to have some burrito company come in or some

[00:27:52] like crepes come or whatever like we have to go over the top with this stuff I think it's just crazy

[00:27:57] I think it is crazy and it's like this question to ask ourselves of like what really

[00:28:04] matters to people and what do they care about and I think like do people really want to have

[00:28:08] a holiday party you know maybe there are some cultures that do and maybe there are some people

[00:28:14] that really do it well but I don't know I think like if you really were to have people get honest

[00:28:21] perspective on how much they enjoy that thing like is it the vast majority I don't know but like we

[00:28:28] this past Christmas there were two things there were three things that was actually involved

[00:28:31] in where it was like alternative holiday parties where I think like there's just a

[00:28:36] smarter way for people to think about like team engagement one was we did it with because it

[00:28:42] was a mostly virtual you know group anyways what we ended up doing was it was like a little

[00:28:47] quizzy thing about you know movies at the holiday time period and then we literally just

[00:28:52] told people bring your popcorn or your food and like we're just going to watch some holiday

[00:28:55] movies and there were people who hadn't seen It's a Wonderful Life for example and we like

[00:29:00] watch a big snippet of that and we did it without and like these are things that cost no money but

[00:29:07] I don't know unless they were lying to me you know it seemed like there was like high level

[00:29:11] engagement around it but another example just share another one though is we've seen some movement

[00:29:18] where instead of like throwing a big old holiday party that we've made decisions to give like what

[00:29:23] we would spend for the cost of a big holiday party back to the community to a nonprofit or

[00:29:29] you know somewhere an organization around us that could really use it in a more meaningful

[00:29:33] material way than us having a holiday party so I just I think the whole alternative of like

[00:29:39] what can you do in this space I think is interesting but also around like what's

[00:29:43] going to make people feel good I just don't know if it's a holiday party like as we know it so

[00:29:48] I'm hoping like it kind of dies down as well as for the reason of I never want HR people

[00:29:54] in the holiday or party planning business I know people have different opinions about it

[00:30:01] I know that helps get HR out of that party planning job I'm all for it. Oh I want to plan the party

[00:30:09] man because other people suck at it I'm great like I'm going to throw people are going to have fun

[00:30:14] like come on one of the best events I ever did was to give my employees a hundred dollar bill

[00:30:19] and say they had 24 hours to give it away to somebody couldn't I mean it can't be in their

[00:30:23] family couldn't be another employee and the stories that came back of people being at a grocery

[00:30:29] store and paying for someone's groceries are going to you know out to a restaurant and paying for a

[00:30:34] table with a mom and a dad and you know four kids or whatever it was amazing and again that's

[00:30:41] like giving back to the community in different ways that was very personal to individuals

[00:30:46] I mean I literally we were in a conference room because we said like hey 24 hours from now

[00:30:49] we're going to come back to this conference room we're all going to share our stories

[00:30:52] and there was people literally crying sharing their stories and how emotional that was because

[00:30:58] you just never know how you're going to make somebody's day and again

[00:31:01] is a hundred dollars going to change their life it might not change their life but it

[00:31:06] definitely if you're having a really bad time and someone does something great for you maybe

[00:31:10] it turns it around maybe it gives you some hope you know so I asked chat GPT right right now

[00:31:17] as we're on this podcast do employees enjoy office parties or are they a burden and I'll read it

[00:31:23] verbatim this is the response it is generally believed that office parties can be fun and

[00:31:28] enjoyable way for employees to socialize and relax outside of work however it is important

[00:31:32] to consider the preferences and needs of individual employees as not every employee may feel

[00:31:37] comfortable or enjoy participating in office parties it is important for the organization

[00:31:42] for organizers of the office parties to consider factors such as inclusivity accessibility and

[00:31:48] appropriateness of the events into order and to ensure all employees feel welcome and included

[00:31:52] ultimately whether or not employees enjoy office parties will depend on a variety of factors

[00:31:57] including the nature of the event the culture of the organization and the individual preference

[00:32:02] of the employee that's a pretty damn good response from I know God it's chat GPT

[00:32:10] you know what I just chat chat GPT people when time comes for you to like ingest

[00:32:16] the HR famous podcast and then like issue new episodes on our behalf please just make me

[00:32:22] wittier that's like all I like better like jokes like in the moment I'm never like quick on the

[00:32:28] the draw so like make me witty please yeah witty quick response and very empathetic

[00:32:36] you know likable oh yeah yes yes no me not you you can still be like the great one I want to

[00:32:44] be the likable one yes all right hey next time we'll be back with Jessica and I and hopefully

[00:32:53] Madeline I'm sure she will be back and but this is what we have for the episode this this week

[00:32:58] so thank you everybody for another episode of HR famous for Jessica Lee I'm Tim Sackett and we are out