Unlocking Early-Stage Success with Katy Stover Fox - HigherHer Ep 12

[00:00:00] Welcome to the HigherHer Podcast by Talent Collective, presenting conversations with inspiring women in talent. And get ready ladies, because this is the last time you're going to hear a man's voice on this show.

[00:00:14] Hi everyone and welcome to today's episode of HigherHer, a podcast put on by Talent Collective. Talent Collective is a community for women in the recruiting space and we are so excited to be here today with Katy Stover Fox.

[00:00:30] I'll do a brief introduction on her in just a second. But first, my name is Krista Tan and I am one of the co-founders of Talent Collective. I'm also here with Natalie Stones, our other co-founder. Hello, Natalie.

[00:00:43] Hello. She actually gets mad when I call her Natalie, so sorry, Nat.

[00:00:49] You know me, it's too long to be calling you that.

[00:00:51] That is so true. So true. All right. Well, moving on, I want to do a quick introduction to Katy. So, Katy actually has a pretty extensive background in the education space and has made her way into recruiting and now owns her own company.

[00:01:09] So, she's founder and CEO of HirePeople. And HirePeople really takes a more 360 view on the entire life cycle of an employee.

[00:01:20] So, recruiting all the way through retention. But I'll let her get a lot more into that. So, Katy, welcome.

[00:01:27] We'd love to hear a little bit from you about your background, you know, how you got into recruiting in the TA space, and then a little bit more about what you're up to now.

[00:01:37] Sure. First, love the name HireHer. Clearly, we like Hire used in multiple ways. So, we have a lot in common there.

[00:01:46] But yeah, my background, as you mentioned, I started as a teacher. So, I did Teach for America.

[00:01:51] I taught 10th grade geometry in one of the toughest schools in the United States.

[00:01:56] And I always say that, like, when things get hard, I'm able to kind of like tap back into my body and be like, wait, it still doesn't feel as hard as teaching.

[00:02:03] So, I think I'm okay. Definitely a really, you know, crazy experience, but amazing experience to start my career.

[00:02:11] And then from there, I moved into ed tech. So, I worked at Pearson, and then I worked at General Assembly, which is a big coding upskilling boot camp.

[00:02:20] When I started at GA, we really were just on the consumer side of things. So, students were signing up to take our classes.

[00:02:27] My job was to help them get jobs. So, I was indirectly recruiting. I was setting up partnerships with companies.

[00:02:34] And it was very, very new in the coding boot camp space. So, I had really got to figure out how to get my foot in the door.

[00:02:40] And then we closed our first really big enterprise contract, which was a $10 million contract with Booz Allen Hamilton.

[00:02:46] And I managed that entire engagement. That was to train 5,000 people at the workforce in data science.

[00:02:54] And so, that was really kind of the upskilling side of my career.

[00:02:58] And I had an aha moment when I was there, and that I was working with really some of the biggest companies in the world,

[00:03:05] with Capital One, and we even had a contract with the Department of Defense, and Bloomberg, and Booz Allen.

[00:03:11] And, you know, I realized that when it came to people strategy, it was pretty reactive, and it was kind of put to the side.

[00:03:18] And nobody knew what they were doing. Nobody had a clear game plan, right?

[00:03:22] It was always like revenue, marketing, product first, people second.

[00:03:27] And so, I was kind of working in this one part of the talent funnel and upskilling, then went into executive recruiting,

[00:03:35] learned how to do that very well, filled a lot of roles,

[00:03:38] and, you know, very much realized, again, in recruiting, people typically call on you when they,

[00:03:44] you know, it's almost too late when they need to make a hire, right?

[00:03:47] They're like, I should have filled the role six months ago. Can you fill it tomorrow?

[00:03:51] And so, like, again, all my spidey senses were like, why are we not strategically planning like we do for everything else in a business?

[00:03:59] So, that's why I started to hire people to help companies recruit, reskill, and retain talent.

[00:04:04] Most of what we do is still in the hiring space right now, but we do take that 360-degree approach,

[00:04:09] and we do other things like comp analyses and career pathway support and off-site planning and, you know,

[00:04:16] retention surveys and really getting into, like, the meat of why are your people staying?

[00:04:19] Why are they leaving?

[00:04:21] And I love this space.

[00:04:23] I think it is so important, and I think it needs to be front and center for once and for all.

[00:04:29] Amazing. Well, thank you. Thanks for taking us through that.

[00:04:32] We definitely want to get a little bit more in the weeds and on what you do with your clients.

[00:04:38] But first, we'd love to zoom out and go a little bit big picture.

[00:04:43] So, we occasionally talk with our guests just about life challenges,

[00:04:48] and, you know, sometimes sharing those challenges and vulnerabilities can be really helpful for other people.

[00:04:55] So, curious to hear from you.

[00:04:57] Is there maybe either a personal or work challenge that you've gone through that you'd like to share with us

[00:05:03] and how you overcame it and what you learned from it that maybe could help our guests today?

[00:05:09] Krista, we only have 20 minutes.

[00:05:11] I have so many.

[00:05:13] So, I'm going to focus on one.

[00:05:16] You know, I think so much of what makes us us is our why and kind of how we grew up as kids.

[00:05:21] And a lot of people are like, why are you the way you are?

[00:05:23] And I think there's a couple things that really contribute to that,

[00:05:26] and some of them are more challenging things that I overcame.

[00:05:30] So, my dad was a phenomenal dad, but he was a recovering addict and alcoholic,

[00:05:34] and my parents separated really early.

[00:05:37] And so, at a super young age, I was forced to problem solve quite a bit.

[00:05:42] I had to find rehabs.

[00:05:44] I had to figure out where he was living.

[00:05:45] I had to just always be doing and figuring out and problem solving and going.

[00:05:49] And, you know, while difficult in some ways,

[00:05:52] I think it made me as a kid incredibly self-reliant and resilient,

[00:05:56] where now people can throw literally any problem my way,

[00:06:00] and I can come up with 10 solutions.

[00:06:02] And that maybe is a trauma-based response that we're working on, you know, in other ways too.

[00:06:07] But I do think that, like, so much of what makes me a visionary is my impulse to react

[00:06:12] and my impulse to come up with an idea and not only come up with it,

[00:06:16] but then be able to, like, stick with it and actually execute it.

[00:06:20] And, you know, I think part of that is because I had to, right?

[00:06:23] Like, I had to figure that out.

[00:06:24] And if I didn't, there was major consequences.

[00:06:27] So now I'm working through, like, okay, it's okay if I don't get that proposal done today

[00:06:32] or I don't finish this thing.

[00:06:34] But I am highly self-reliant.

[00:06:37] I'm very good at getting things done.

[00:06:39] And I can come up with probably 10 solutions to a problem you throw my way.

[00:06:44] And I think a lot of that's based on my childhood.

[00:06:47] Wow.

[00:06:48] Thank you for sharing.

[00:06:51] My father was also an alcoholic.

[00:06:53] So I know what it's like to grow up in an environment that can be really unstable

[00:06:58] and, you know, kind of scary as a child.

[00:07:01] And even as I bring my own kids up now, I just feel like there's so many learnings in

[00:07:08] childhood, especially when you go through big challenges.

[00:07:11] And it sounds like you were able to actually take those challenges and flip them for good

[00:07:18] in your life and to make them into productive solutions for your life.

[00:07:23] Some people aren't able to do that.

[00:07:25] And I'm really happy to hear that, you know, you've been able to take those challenges for good.

[00:07:31] Yeah.

[00:07:32] I also think, you know, my parents did a good job of instilling the belief that it was not

[00:07:37] my bag.

[00:07:38] It was not my thing.

[00:07:39] Like, I went to AA meetings with my dad.

[00:07:41] And he was an incredible father.

[00:07:43] And I think, like, he really was able to separate, like, hey, I have this sickness.

[00:07:48] I have this thing.

[00:07:49] It's not yours.

[00:07:50] And I think we're all flawed.

[00:07:52] We all have different things that we're going through.

[00:07:53] But, like, allowing a child to know, like, where they have control and where they don't

[00:07:57] is really important.

[00:07:58] And I think my parents did that really well.

[00:08:01] So I'm really grateful for that.

[00:08:03] Nice.

[00:08:03] Oh, my gosh.

[00:08:05] That's, like, such a compelling story.

[00:08:08] This is so great.

[00:08:09] And my father was also an alcoholic.

[00:08:11] But thankfully, I was sheltered from it before I was born.

[00:08:16] But there is something to say about parents that have their own adversity and how they raise

[00:08:19] us.

[00:08:20] And so I can see how you've really blossomed into a successful businesswoman.

[00:08:25] So doubling down on that, you know, we asked you about any serious challenges or adversities

[00:08:32] that you overcome.

[00:08:32] But when we think about, like, on our podcast, we're very passionate about elevating women's

[00:08:37] voices, specifically in recruiting.

[00:08:40] So has there been anything that you've experienced as a challenge, specifically as a woman in the

[00:08:45] workforce or as a woman in her career that you'd like to share and how you kind of overcame

[00:08:51] with that?

[00:08:52] Yeah.

[00:08:53] You know, this is something I have a lot of stories about.

[00:08:56] And I've actually refrained, I feel like, from talking about some of these things publicly

[00:09:00] because I am so, like, strong and all these things.

[00:09:03] And so, you know, I don't want to, like, say anybody's names or companies or anything

[00:09:08] like that.

[00:09:08] I think I've always been so afraid.

[00:09:10] And I think that's part of the challenge is we, like, take it on and we don't always talk

[00:09:15] about it out loud.

[00:09:16] But yeah, a couple stories.

[00:09:17] So I'm also 4'11", so I'm very small.

[00:09:21] And I'm pretty, like, outgoing and feminine.

[00:09:24] And that can sometimes be taken as, like, flirty, I think, a lot of the time, too.

[00:09:29] And so I have had a lot of situations that are just, like, very inappropriate where people

[00:09:35] have either, you know, made passes at me or said things or done things.

[00:09:40] Conferences, I feel like, can be, like, overwhelming and a little scary at times.

[00:09:45] Like, I've had people definitely try to, like, keep the drinks going.

[00:09:48] I've had multiple men be, like, hey, I can't get home because I can't get the train stopped.

[00:09:55] And so the only way for me to, like, have a place to stay is to stay in your hotel room.

[00:09:59] And, like, just I have a lot of stories, to be honest.

[00:10:02] And I really haven't talked about them publicly.

[00:10:04] But I think the one story that, like, impacted me in my career was, again, a couple.

[00:10:11] One, the president of a company once told me, like, you just don't have VP presence.

[00:10:16] And you're so cute.

[00:10:19] And, like, we'll use you for conferences.

[00:10:21] But I just don't think you can be a VP.

[00:10:24] He also then told me to wear a very specific color short dress to conferences.

[00:10:30] Because part of that was why I was getting so many partners on board was that I was cute.

[00:10:34] And that's why I was good at sales.

[00:10:37] So that was one.

[00:10:38] And then another one was a little bit more, like, not clear in that, like, I was inappropriately hit on by a client at an event.

[00:10:47] And my manager at the time overheard that.

[00:10:50] And rather than kind of ask me, like, how that impacted me, he went to HR and said, like, I don't think she can be alone with this client.

[00:10:56] And it was a really big account.

[00:10:58] And so I actually lost, like, the ability to own that account myself.

[00:11:04] And it was one of those things where I actually think he was trying to help and, like, do something well.

[00:11:09] But because of it, I lost my credibility.

[00:11:12] And I lost my, like, position of power with that account.

[00:11:15] And I just, like, I felt okay in that moment.

[00:11:18] I was, like, I had it.

[00:11:18] Like, it was a joke.

[00:11:19] I felt like I was able to, like, navigate it.

[00:11:23] So the point of that story is, you know, I think a lot of people are really well intentioned.

[00:11:28] But it's really important to, like, go to the person first and be, like, how do you want to respond in this moment?

[00:11:33] And, like, is it okay if I go to HR?

[00:11:35] Or do you want to keep this to yourself?

[00:11:37] Because maybe there's no point to go to HR.

[00:11:41] So, yeah, those are two.

[00:11:43] Thank you for sharing.

[00:11:43] Gosh.

[00:11:45] I have a follow-up question to that.

[00:11:49] I'm curious.

[00:11:50] I haven't had situations that extreme.

[00:11:53] But I've worked for companies that are, like, very young professional.

[00:11:57] And then I've worked for companies that were, like, very non-young professionals and of more mature age.

[00:12:03] Is there any rhyme or reason?

[00:12:06] Like, is this a generational thing?

[00:12:07] Do you find that being common in male young professionals?

[00:12:12] Like, has that been an experience of yours?

[00:12:14] Or is it unique to a certain demographic?

[00:12:18] Yeah.

[00:12:18] I do think that when I was younger in my career, I was in companies where there was a lot of, like, young people.

[00:12:24] There was a lot of stress.

[00:12:25] It was, like, very high growth.

[00:12:27] We all were, like, pretending to be adults when we, like, really weren't adults.

[00:12:31] So that might have been part of it in that situation.

[00:12:34] And then I've also worked in older school traditional agency or worlds where, like, essentially one was in the funeral industry.

[00:12:44] So, like, a lot of, like, older funeral owners and, like, just a world where, like, things are still kind of old school and how they think and what they can say and what's appropriate.

[00:12:55] And, like, I don't even think some of them were ill-intentioned.

[00:13:00] I think it's just, like, the way they grew up and what they know and, like, the little funny comments they move on the side.

[00:13:05] And so it happens, I guess, in both, if I'm being honest.

[00:13:10] And I think that, like, you know, we've come a really far way.

[00:13:15] But, like, there's little small moments where you just realize, like, oh, maybe I don't have as much power as I initially thought.

[00:13:22] Yeah, that's kind of where I was going with it.

[00:13:25] Thank you for giving more context, you know, hoping that it was just a, not maybe just, but is it a generational thing that will, like, weed out over time?

[00:13:33] We would hope.

[00:13:34] But while things have gotten better, it sounds like it's still, you know, very much a present thing.

[00:13:40] Yeah.

[00:13:41] And, again, I think, like, it's also on us to, like, create safe spaces and push back and, like, you know, create boundaries.

[00:13:48] And, like, it's going to take both sides being able to say, like, you know, there's many moments that I didn't say anything.

[00:13:54] And I don't know if that was the right move or if I, like, just perpetuated it by, like, being like, well, it's easier for me to stay quiet to get to the next point.

[00:14:04] So I think we also have to take ownership and think about, like, what our role is within that and how do we, like, not scare people away, but also make sure we're, like, creating the right boundaries and expectations and having dialogue with folks.

[00:14:19] Great feedback.

[00:14:20] Thank you.

[00:14:20] Yeah.

[00:14:21] And it can be so scary to speak up.

[00:14:23] So I definitely applaud you for those times you were able to.

[00:14:27] And it's just so hard to know what to do in the moment of those things.

[00:14:31] And I think all of us can think of times where we've looked back and gone, like, oh, I wish I would have handled that differently.

[00:14:37] Right.

[00:14:39] Well, would love to shift gears a little bit and go back to your business that you started.

[00:14:45] I know you shared a little bit in your intro about, like, reflecting on your time at General Assembly and, you know, all of these large companies coming to you and, you know, asking for your advice on how to handle their people problems.

[00:15:00] But share a little bit more about why you started your company and the inspiration there.

[00:15:05] We'd love to hear that story.

[00:15:07] Yeah.

[00:15:08] You know, again, I think I've always been an entrepreneur and I've always been able to see, like, challenges and pain points and be like, how can I make it better?

[00:15:15] Back when I was in college, I started a it was a grilled cheese stand where we basically sold grilled cheese to people and then we donated everything to World Hunger.

[00:15:26] So it's like market need all these drunk people.

[00:15:29] Therefore, I'm going to do this thing, give back for good.

[00:15:32] And I really think that's what it was for higher people, too.

[00:15:35] Right.

[00:15:35] It was like clear pain point, not seeing a solution in the market.

[00:15:39] And wait, I think I could do things better.

[00:15:41] And a lot of agencies have, you know, kind of always done things traditionally this way.

[00:15:47] Wait, I have an enterprise delivery background.

[00:15:49] I have all these other skill sets, like the way I would do it would look different.

[00:15:54] And if I bring all those skills together in one place, I actually think it will be more powerful than kind of any one thing alone.

[00:16:02] So a lot of it was just based on my passion and knowing that, like, if I did it, I could do it different or better.

[00:16:08] And then it's like finding really good people to work with that, like, gives you the ammunition to just keep going.

[00:16:14] I actually I started hire people as a total side gig.

[00:16:17] It was just like a way to make extra cash and side hustle.

[00:16:21] And it just started growing and growing.

[00:16:23] And I started hiring friends who are contractors.

[00:16:26] Literally, I think almost all my friends have worked for me at some point and was like, wait, this now is like, you know, starting to get bigger than just these contractors.

[00:16:34] Then I tried to quit my job and they convinced me to stay on for another six months.

[00:16:38] So instead, I hired somebody else to come on full time before I did.

[00:16:43] So by the time I really walked into the business, it was a full grown business.

[00:16:48] And I was walking into a company, I was thinking a million dollars in revenue and I knew I could jump off and do that.

[00:16:57] So, you know, I think for people listening, it's just important to like find the pain point, identify a way you can make an impact.

[00:17:04] And then if you can start small and and there wasn't as much pressure for me to like build a company because it I was able to kind of just do it slowly and let it happen organically.

[00:17:17] Who like who are your ideal clients?

[00:17:21] Like, are they more enterprise or are they smaller companies?

[00:17:26] Yeah, primarily pre C to series B.

[00:17:29] So early stage, typically we're coming in before, you know, companies have a people team.

[00:17:33] We're helping build that initial process for them.

[00:17:36] We're also helping them, you know, with those early hires.

[00:17:40] So we do a ton of like founding go to market roles and founding engineer roles and, you know, founding marketing hires.

[00:17:47] Really kind of thinking about how do we not just look for, you know, the hard skills in folks, but those soft skills that make someone really thrive at an earlier stage.

[00:17:58] And yeah, all different types of companies because my background is in ed tech.

[00:18:02] We have a lot of ed tech clients and then a ton of just B2B SaaS clients.

[00:18:07] Great. Thanks.

[00:18:11] Can you expand on like what the inspiration was and maybe just like a really cool success story that you may have had with a client?

[00:18:19] Like one where you're like, wow, this is really impactful.

[00:18:22] What I'm doing is like really making a mark here.

[00:18:25] Yeah, I think the inspiration again goes back to those like puzzle pieces, right?

[00:18:29] I was like the upskilling puzzle piece of L&D was one piece.

[00:18:33] The recruiting piece was another piece and I wanted to just put it together to be this full, you know, full puzzle piece solution.

[00:18:40] I did not want to build a product.

[00:18:41] I didn't want to raise funding.

[00:18:42] I was like, I want to, I really see myself as a client facing like delivery person.

[00:18:48] And so a lot of that was just leveraging my strengths and in delivery and, you know, being able to make an impact, right?

[00:18:56] Like I think that the way that companies have historically recruited and reskilled and retained is like HR and talent is put to the side.

[00:19:05] It's like this, not the ugly stepchild, but it's kind of like the division that like gets called on when they're needed.

[00:19:11] Right.

[00:19:11] And I just really felt like we needed to put it front and center.

[00:19:15] We needed all hiring managers to go through bias training.

[00:19:18] We need all hiring managers to go through good behavioral interview training.

[00:19:21] We needed all people to like really understand that this is not just your people team that you lay off when, you know, you don't have a need, but instead it's actually a part of your entire ethos of your organization.

[00:19:34] So I would say that is largely why.

[00:19:37] And I believe that we can treat people better at orgs.

[00:19:40] And then I also think that your business will function better too.

[00:19:43] Like it's a win-win.

[00:19:44] It's not an either or.

[00:19:45] Um, and yeah, client story.

[00:19:49] Um, I would probably say our client, Elsie Vista, we started hiring for them.

[00:19:54] And actually worked with the CEO at a former company he had been at.

[00:19:57] So then he came on, he was a new CEO.

[00:20:00] It was his job to like, you know, really make sure that hiring was up-leveled, brought us in.

[00:20:05] Uh, we did everything from training all their hiring managers very early on, on just like behavioral interview screens, rubrics, like bias.

[00:20:14] And then we did all of their hires for, uh, the last two years.

[00:20:19] And then after we did a ton of hiring sprints for them, they were like, Hey Katie, wait, you told me you could do other stuff.

[00:20:25] Like what else can you do?

[00:20:26] Um, and so then we did a big comp analysis project for all of the employees at their company.

[00:20:32] We built out all of their career pathways.

[00:20:35] We built out performance management at the company.

[00:20:37] We did training on performance management.

[00:20:40] We, uh, actually planned and delivered an entire executive offsite.

[00:20:45] Um, we, you know, are, are still working with them right now.

[00:20:49] And so there's like ongoing engagements where all of this is still kind of coming back around.

[00:20:53] And we just actually launched a role with them, um, on Friday.

[00:20:57] So, you know, I think that the clients that see us as a partner and don't see us as an agency that should be sending resumes are always my favorite stories because, um, it really is a partnership.

[00:21:09] And when we work together and when we do more together, we can not only ensure that we just find one good needle in a haystack for that one random role, but that like we're hiring the right people.

[00:21:19] They're staying, they're happy, all that fun stuff.

[00:21:23] Yeah.

[00:21:24] If only, um, more companies understood that your people, all people really impact revenue.

[00:21:29] Like your recruiters impact revenue at the end of the day, the people that they bring on.

[00:21:33] Um, so we're definitely more than just something by the wayside.

[00:21:38] So, um, well, with that, we are coming up at time.

[00:21:42] Um, so we wanted to thank you for joining us today.

[00:21:45] You've shared some very vulnerable stories.

[00:21:47] We really appreciate that.

[00:21:49] That will definitely go a long way and I'm sure it will impact somebody that's listening out there.

[00:21:54] So thank you, Katie, for joining us.

[00:21:56] And how can people best connect with you?

[00:21:58] Um, if they want to, you know, have a coffee connect or learn more about your business, where should they find you?

[00:22:03] Yeah.

[00:22:04] Uh, hirepeople.co is our website, uh, H-I-G-H-E-R.

[00:22:08] And then I'm on LinkedIn, uh, no surprise there.

[00:22:11] So I would say LinkedIn is definitely follow the Hire People page, follow my LinkedIn, Katie Stover Fox.

[00:22:17] Um, and then we do a ton of free events for job seekers.

[00:22:21] So if you're looking for work, we have a monthly round table where we really try to give, you know,

[00:22:26] hands-on support with resumes and LinkedIn and really direct feedback.

[00:22:30] Um, and obviously if you're looking to hire or anything that I said, you know, makes sense for your business needs,

[00:22:36] I would absolutely love to connect as well.

[00:22:38] Are those round tables virtual or in person?

[00:22:41] They are virtual.

[00:22:42] Virtual.

[00:22:42] Virtual.

[00:22:42] Okay.

[00:22:43] Great.

[00:22:43] Well, thank you again, Katie.

[00:22:46] Um, everybody, thank you for tuning in this week.

[00:22:48] We will see you very soon.

[00:22:50] Be sure to, um, like, and subscribe as the kids say on YouTube.

[00:22:54] Follow us on all the channels, uh, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, everywhere.

[00:22:59] And until next time, we will see you soon.

[00:23:02] Cool.

[00:23:03] Thanks guys.

[00:23:04] Appreciate it.