Navigating Career Changes with Anne Muscarella - HigherHer ep 15

[00:00:00] Welcome to the HigherHer Podcast by Talent Collective, presenting conversations with inspiring women in talent. And get ready ladies, because this is the last time you're going to hear a man's voice on this show.

[00:00:14] Hi everyone and welcome to today's episode of HigherHer put on by Talent Collective. We are a community for women in the talent acquisition space. And if you noticed anything, if you watched any of our episodes before, you're going to notice we look a little different today. We're actually in person.

[00:00:30] So super, super excited to be here from my couch in Alameda, California. And wanted to welcome everyone to today's recording. We have Anne Muscarella here to join us today. I'll let her really fully introduce herself.

[00:00:49] But I have a fun story about how Anne and I met, which was gosh, probably two years ago now.

[00:00:58] I did some contract work for Anne's company, Brain Trust, when she was out on maternity leave. So I came in and was helping them with some hiring and doing a little bit of HR here and there.

[00:01:11] And we actually didn't know each other. And half the time I was calling her like, what do I do in this situation? Or where do I find this? Or whatever.

[00:01:18] And she's got this baby at home. But she was so amazing and wonderful and helpful while I was trying to figure things out over there.

[00:01:26] And Anne is still with Brain Trust today. And so after Anne came back to work, she and I actually were like, we should probably meet because we're both in the Bay Area.

[00:01:34] And we're both awesome. And so we've been really enjoying getting to know each other over the last couple of years.

[00:01:43] Anne has also become a Talent Collective member. And she's been just a joy to be with for the rest of the community as well.

[00:01:50] So yeah, so Anne, we'd love to pass it over to you. If you want to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your journey within the world of talent acquisition, that would be amazing.

[00:02:00] Yes. Thank you, Krista, for that warm introduction. So I have been at Brain Trust for over five years. I was employee number one.

[00:02:09] So Krista alluded to my maternity leave where it's like that commercial where the guy has all the stuff in his head and then he gets hit by the filing cabinet and falls over.

[00:02:19] And it's like, oh, then who's tracking all this? Right. And Krista came up and picked up the pieces to her enormous credit.

[00:02:26] But Brain Trust started out as a talent marketplace connecting enterprise customers with highly skilled technical talent.

[00:02:32] And in the last year, we've made a dramatic transformation to an AI company, a tool that transforms the recruiting process end to end and introduces AI at every step of the process, even conducting that first round interview for you.

[00:02:47] So it's been really such a journey to, again, start out. It was the founders and me five years ago as this like small talent marketplace.

[00:02:56] And now we are this AI enabled tool serving Fortune 1000 customers with a team of, you know, 45 people and millions of talent around the globe.

[00:03:06] So it's been a really interesting journey. And I guess I should add, this is my first foray into talent acquisition.

[00:03:12] I sort of fell into it haphazardly. My background is in PR and communications.

[00:03:17] And when I came over to Brain Trust, I started doing our own internal hiring.

[00:03:21] And then I started helping the marketplace and matching talent and and our customers.

[00:03:27] And so I've very haphazardly fallen into talent acquisition and and recruiting.

[00:03:32] And I've benefited from many wonderful mentors and leaders like Krista and other people within the talent collective who've helped me fumble my way through,

[00:03:41] whether it's benefits or dealing with tricky employee situations.

[00:03:46] I've benefited from many, many smart, often female talent acquisition leaders along the way.

[00:03:52] Amazing. Well, thank you for for sharing more. And I'm really excited to dive a little bit more into Brain Trust.

[00:04:00] I was when I interviewed and and worked there, I was just so thrilled to see a product like that out there on the marketplace.

[00:04:10] One of the things that I was reflecting a lot on at the time was I had just come out of working in staffing at an agency for 13 years.

[00:04:20] Um, my founder at the time of that agency, she was actually launching and had launched a technology matching tool of her own, you know, talent matching kind of a marketplace similar.

[00:04:33] Um, and we were really struggling with the identity of the company being a recruiting agency, but then also a technology company.

[00:04:43] And what I love to see about Brain Trust was it really, truly operated like a tech company.

[00:04:50] Like even the titles of everybody, it was like, you're an account executive, you're not a client manager or, you know, you're like, I don't remember what the titles of like the recruiters are,

[00:05:01] but like it was, it was really amazing to see executives talent or excuse me, um, technology executives running the company like a true, uh, technology company and just seeing how successful it was because of that, I think.

[00:05:18] Um, and then now obviously the pivot into AI, which, you know, could not be more timely.

[00:05:24] I think that was a very smart, uh, strategic move on behalf of the organization as well.

[00:05:30] Um, so tell us a little bit more about Brain Trust.

[00:05:33] Let's go, you know, a little bit deeper.

[00:05:35] Um, maybe if you know, and obviously as employee number one, like what the inspiration was for starting it.

[00:05:41] Um, so tell us more.

[00:05:42] Yeah.

[00:05:43] Yeah.

[00:05:44] Yeah.

[00:05:44] So, um, the two co-founders, um, many moons ago started Brain Trust as a web three talent enabled marketplace, right?

[00:05:50] They, they felt like, um, marketplaces, uh, really had an upper hand on, on anything else because there's really natural supply and demand.

[00:06:00] Right.

[00:06:00] And, and what they wanted to do was put the, um, power back in the hands and the control of the users.

[00:06:06] Um, fast forward to today.

[00:06:08] I actually think what's more interesting is, is the challenges that you are addressing, right?

[00:06:13] Staffing agencies have developed their dominance over many years by building relationships.

[00:06:17] Right.

[00:06:18] And as soon as you introduce the word technology, immediately they become really scared, right?

[00:06:22] They're like, oh, technology.

[00:06:24] That means like the human part of this interaction is going to be ripped out.

[00:06:28] And actually it's like totally the opposite, right?

[00:06:30] Like the technology is enabling recruiters to get back to the, doing the human part of their roles.

[00:06:35] There's, there's nothing human about reviewing a thousand resumes.

[00:06:39] There is like nothing human about doing 50 phone screens back, back to back.

[00:06:43] Like that is a problem for technology to solve.

[00:06:46] And, and where, um, talent acquisition professionals and recruiters can be most useful is building

[00:06:51] those, those candidate relationships and closing those, those top qualified candidates.

[00:06:56] And, and they cannot do that without the technology.

[00:06:59] So brain trust has always been, and will always be a tech company first, but that's to enable

[00:07:04] the human participation and, and leadership that's needed in the talent acquisition space.

[00:07:10] So, um, I always like to say, I think brain trust and AI recruiting tools in general are

[00:07:15] making hiring and talent acquisition more human, not less human.

[00:07:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:20] Yeah, that's great.

[00:07:21] Um, and you're reminding me now, one of the other things I found so fascinating about the

[00:07:25] company, and I don't know how much it's, um, a part of things today, but was the web

[00:07:31] three piece of it.

[00:07:32] And like, I had like at the time just gotten into crypto and I was like taking all these

[00:07:37] like web three classes and all of these things.

[00:07:40] And by the way, everyone, Bitcoin, Bitcoin is coming back.

[00:07:43] So don't poo poo it.

[00:07:45] Um, but I remember part of the like, um, philosophy, I guess of the platform was, um, it was like

[00:07:54] a kind of crowdsourced and the engineers who were also, you know, getting employed through

[00:08:00] brain trust were then could also help, um, develop it and make it better.

[00:08:05] And they would in turn get like the coin.

[00:08:09] Right.

[00:08:09] So is that still a piece of the pie?

[00:08:12] Yeah.

[00:08:12] So that's exactly right.

[00:08:13] Like, you know, when brain trust was founded, it was, it was kind of on the fundamental principle

[00:08:18] that, that workers were being disenfranchised.

[00:08:20] You know, you think of DoorDash and Uber, Uber drivers, DoorDash drivers, and, um, what

[00:08:25] would happen if they had gotten some of the common stock of, of, of those companies, they'd

[00:08:29] be rich today instead of sleeping in their cars.

[00:08:32] And so brain trust was, was founded on the principle that we feel like workers should get

[00:08:37] to extract the value they create.

[00:08:39] And the B trust token is what enables that.

[00:08:41] So talent on brain trust earn a hundred percent of, of their hourly rate in, in dollars or

[00:08:47] whatever currency they want to earn it in.

[00:08:49] And then on top of that, they have the potential to earn B trust for their participation in

[00:08:53] the network.

[00:08:54] So when they refer other great talent to the network, they earn B trust.

[00:08:57] So they have ownership and control in the brain trust network, which gives them again, more

[00:09:02] say.

[00:09:02] Um, it, it makes them feel more accountable.

[00:09:05] You know, I think that the constant criticism of freelancers and contractors as well, they're

[00:09:08] not committed to our company or they're not bought in and they're not invested in.

[00:09:12] You never hear that about brain trust talent because they're all bought in.

[00:09:15] They want to be a part of this network.

[00:09:17] Um, and it's, they're proud to, to work with brain trust and for brain trust customers because,

[00:09:23] um, they're earning what they're worth.

[00:09:26] And additionally, they have ownership and control in the network.

[00:09:29] Yeah.

[00:09:30] Great.

[00:09:30] Thank you.

[00:09:31] Do you have a sense of what the, how large the network is at this point?

[00:09:36] Like, yeah.

[00:09:36] So we're over a million talent around the globe, which is remarkable.

[00:09:39] Again, like when I joined the company, it was 28 years, like trying to get our first talent

[00:09:45] in the door.

[00:09:45] We're like personally emailing talent.

[00:09:47] And now it's like, it's just like spread like wildfire in large part due to this B trust

[00:09:51] token and, and, um, you know, referring other great talents.

[00:09:56] Amazing.

[00:09:57] Um, so I want to talk a little bit more about women's leadership.

[00:10:01] Obviously you are a women, uh, or woman, excuse me, women in leadership at your company.

[00:10:08] But I remember when you were working there, I think it was like highly male dominated.

[00:10:13] There's two male founders, I think.

[00:10:15] So, um, what can you give us some context in your opinion?

[00:10:21] Like how is it different working for a male ran organization or working with male leaders?

[00:10:28] Um, and you know, how's that women different than women in leadership that maybe you've worked

[00:10:34] for, um, any insight there?

[00:10:36] Yeah, listen, I mean, I think, um, male leaders and female leaders are inherently different.

[00:10:43] Um, in my last role, I was working for a male CEO and I was working with an executive coach

[00:10:48] because I was having a really, really hard time working with him.

[00:10:51] I think my impulse as a woman is to a take everything on B not ask for help and C apologize

[00:10:59] whenever something goes wrong, even if it's not my fault.

[00:11:02] And I'm sure other women can relate to that.

[00:11:04] It's just like my natural, I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[00:11:06] Um, and this career coach gave me some really, really great advice.

[00:11:10] She was like, when you are talking to a male leader, you need to say, this is what I need

[00:11:15] from you.

[00:11:16] And this is like when I need it.

[00:11:18] And that advice has helped me a lot.

[00:11:20] I really struggle to say like, I need, because, uh, you know, it sounds like kind of like whiny

[00:11:24] and needy and I don't want to be needy, but I think, um, that like direct style of communication

[00:11:30] has served me incredibly well.

[00:11:33] And sometimes I'll reflect back on it.

[00:11:34] Like when I'm not able to get my point across or when I'm struggling with, um, how to communicate,

[00:11:39] I'll, I'll say like, am I stating clearly like what I need, um, from this leader?

[00:11:44] Um, particularly, and, and I'm sure people listening can relate to this too.

[00:11:48] Like if you're at the higher levels of an organization and your boss is the CEO, then you don't really

[00:11:53] have a boss, right?

[00:11:54] Like you have a leader who is there to like help guide and help you solve and troubleshoot,

[00:11:58] but you don't have someone who's like mentoring you.

[00:12:01] Like that's, that's not what this relationship is.

[00:12:03] So if you're, if you're in a position where you're working with someone in the C-suite, you

[00:12:07] need to be really, really direct.

[00:12:12] I always had a challenge working for women.

[00:12:15] Ironically.

[00:12:16] Um, I think we've talked about this before and you've always had a better experience with

[00:12:20] women.

[00:12:20] I just, I've had the hardest time.

[00:12:23] Like, I don't know if it's an innate feeling of like competition or they're judging me or

[00:12:30] women's guilt.

[00:12:31] I don't know.

[00:12:32] I still to this day haven't figured it out, but I just, with men for me, it's just like

[00:12:39] clear, direct, no emotion.

[00:12:42] I never felt like I was leading with emotion with them.

[00:12:46] Um, I don't know.

[00:12:48] It's so interesting how that happens.

[00:12:50] It is so interesting.

[00:12:51] My first two bosses were female and my second two bosses were male.

[00:12:55] Um, and you know, it is interesting to reflect on, on those differences and also the stage

[00:12:59] of your career you're at.

[00:13:00] Right.

[00:13:01] Like when I was like first early in my career, like I think having a female boss was like

[00:13:05] incredible because I really felt supported and nurtured and whatever.

[00:13:09] And now that a little bit later in my career and I can stand up and ask for what I need

[00:13:14] and be really direct.

[00:13:14] But I think it probably would have been harder for me to report to a male earlier in my career.

[00:13:19] Yeah.

[00:13:19] That's a good point.

[00:13:20] It's 2020.

[00:13:21] Yeah.

[00:13:22] Yeah.

[00:13:22] Very good point.

[00:13:23] Well, the funny thing and in how I perceived you, even though I had never met you, like

[00:13:28] literally it's probably through all like Google docs and seeing like your comments and whatever.

[00:13:33] I perceived you as just this total badass, like so direct.

[00:13:40] And so like, you just got what you need.

[00:13:42] You got what you wanted.

[00:13:44] And it's probably a lot due.

[00:13:46] Cause obviously I didn't know you prior to you having this, you know, coach, this business

[00:13:50] coach.

[00:13:51] Um, but clearly you took the advice and ran with it and everyone in the organization

[00:13:57] respected you.

[00:13:58] And still to say, I'm sure respects you so, so much because of it.

[00:14:03] So I just want to applaud you one for taking the actual advice of your coach, like implementing

[00:14:08] those changes.

[00:14:09] Cause sometimes that can be hard to write.

[00:14:10] You said like originally it was against your nature as a woman to, to come forward like

[00:14:17] this, to present yourself like this, but you clearly did it.

[00:14:21] Um, and, and are a huge, huge success because of it now.

[00:14:25] So, well, that's, that's very generous.

[00:14:27] I would call out two like caveats to that, right?

[00:14:30] Like one, I think async communication is so different than in-person communication.

[00:14:34] You're like, I was reading Google docs and you see that badass.

[00:14:37] Like, yeah, it's easy to be like really direct in the comments because like the clapback

[00:14:42] comes later.

[00:14:43] Right.

[00:14:43] And you're not seeing a reaction.

[00:14:45] So I think, um, sometimes, and it's just a good reminder of for all of us that like,

[00:14:49] if you need to see someone's humanity, like get them on the phone and get them on the

[00:14:52] video.

[00:14:53] Like, so that you have that context because, um, I'm sure other people felt the way you did.

[00:14:57] They're probably like, wow, this hand woman is, Ooh.

[00:15:00] But like, then when you get me on the phone, it's like, no.

[00:15:02] The other thing I would say is that confidence comes over time.

[00:15:05] Right?

[00:15:05] Like I've, I've worked here for five plus years.

[00:15:08] So I have like institutional knowledge that other people don't have.

[00:15:11] And it probably allows me to project myself more confidently.

[00:15:15] I think a lot about like, if I were to change jobs or careers, what, what would that look

[00:15:20] like?

[00:15:21] Like, um, it's very humbling.

[00:15:23] It's like a lot of my confidence is derived from knowing the ins and out from knowing where

[00:15:27] the skeletons are, you know, from, from feeling like I know my surroundings super well.

[00:15:31] And, um, you know, starting in a new role and that sense of vulnerability of not knowing

[00:15:36] who you're talking to or communicating with or what their style is like is, is very disarming

[00:15:41] and challenging.

[00:15:42] And I haven't had to experience it in five plus years.

[00:15:44] So, um, so yeah, I probably am in my like most bad-ass era.

[00:15:48] Yeah.

[00:15:48] Oh, I love it.

[00:15:49] I love it.

[00:15:50] Well, I can relate to that.

[00:15:51] I mean, I was at premier that agency I was at for 13 years.

[00:15:54] And so then like basically starting over, so to speak at another company run by men and

[00:16:00] you know, that was brain trust first, but then two months, three months later, I went

[00:16:04] to another startup full time.

[00:16:06] And, um, I will say don't wait 13 years though, because it makes it that much harder to leave

[00:16:12] and move on and go do something else.

[00:16:14] So, yeah.

[00:16:15] Yeah.

[00:16:15] I mean, the cool part about my role is at brain trust is it's been constantly evolving

[00:16:19] and changing and like, I, you know, people are like, what keeps you there?

[00:16:22] And I'm like, well, that like constantly, literally my role changes every three to six

[00:16:26] months.

[00:16:27] And so I'm doing different things all the time and building my skillset and figuring out

[00:16:32] like what it is I want to do next.

[00:16:34] And when that opportunity runs out, of course, then like I would be, you know, looking around,

[00:16:38] but, but right now it's like, like right now I just ran a three month, like paid customer

[00:16:43] acquisition campaign on LinkedIn and paid search.

[00:16:47] I've never done that before.

[00:16:48] And I'm trusted with that responsibility and given a budget and it's like fun and creative

[00:16:53] and I get a contractor and I get to work on all of these things and get these cool experiences.

[00:16:57] So sometimes the benefit of, of hanging around is you get like to experiment a little bit

[00:17:02] more.

[00:17:04] Okay, great.

[00:17:05] Great.

[00:17:05] Awesome.

[00:17:05] Thanks for sharing all of that.

[00:17:08] Let's move on and talk about, if you can think about a serious challenge that you've had

[00:17:14] in your life, whether that's on a more personal level or at work, what's a challenge that you've

[00:17:21] had, you know, maybe in the last few years and what did you learn from it?

[00:17:26] How did you overcome it?

[00:17:27] Anything you can share?

[00:17:28] Yeah.

[00:17:29] Yeah.

[00:17:30] So we've alluded to my maternity leave two and a half years ago.

[00:17:33] Um, I was, you know, your stereotypical type, a woman texting from the hospital bed, right?

[00:17:40] Like we're opening my emails from the hospital bed.

[00:17:42] And I'm like, Oh, like, and by the way, I'd always wanted children.

[00:17:45] I was so excited for this life transition, but I thought it was going to be like, Oh,

[00:17:48] like my new, like kind of accessory.

[00:17:50] Like I'm going to keep working my ass off and also have this child, like have it all.

[00:17:54] Sherald Sandberg.

[00:17:55] Thank you for that.

[00:17:55] Um, and it was incredibly humbling, uh, the reality of it.

[00:18:00] I really, really struggled with my transition into motherhood with my lack of identity with

[00:18:06] trying to take a maternity leave and really pretty much failing at that.

[00:18:09] Um, I was on email every day and, and, um, to what end, right?

[00:18:13] Like, I think I was, you know, bored and, and lonely trying to raise this little baby and,

[00:18:19] um, seeking purpose.

[00:18:20] And so I was like scrolling my email kind of compulsively, but not really adding value.

[00:18:25] And, um, there was a lot of fear.

[00:18:27] There was a lot of, I was really scared and vulnerable.

[00:18:30] And, um, I, I would say it's taken me two and a half years to come out of that.

[00:18:35] Right.

[00:18:35] And reestablish my place and my voice.

[00:18:37] Um, you know, two months after I had my baby, I attended an exec offsite for brain

[00:18:41] trust because while I was out, there were all these new execs hired and I was feeling

[00:18:46] threatened and whether that was in my head or reality, um, you know, not.

[00:18:50] Not sure, but I felt like I needed to be at this in-person offsite, you know, two months

[00:18:55] postpartum, still breastfeeding, you know, the whole thing.

[00:18:58] Um, so that was really challenging.

[00:19:01] Um, and I'm not sure I fully reckoned with it yet or how it would be different if I did

[00:19:06] it again or like what I would do differently.

[00:19:08] I think, um, trying to have a little bit more patience with myself and the process.

[00:19:15] I think having children has taught me to slow way, way down.

[00:19:19] Like again, type a like woman, like trying to do a million things all at once.

[00:19:23] And I think what having kids teaches you is like, you got to slow way down.

[00:19:28] You got to like decrease the speed.

[00:19:31] Um, so, uh, you know, I wish I could wrap it up in a neat bow for all your listeners and

[00:19:36] be like, and this is what I learned.

[00:19:37] And this is what I would do differently.

[00:19:38] I think, I think I would try and be better if I, if I did that again, I think I would

[00:19:44] try and be more self, uh, assured and self-aware.

[00:19:48] Like, Hey, I'm pulling to my phone and my email because I'm bored and lonely.

[00:19:53] And like, what else can I do instead of like trying to throw myself back into work?

[00:19:57] Um, but it's, it's really hard.

[00:19:59] I'm sure you guys can both relate.

[00:20:02] Yeah.

[00:20:02] I'm interested to hear Nat's perspective on this, but, um, I've had three children now

[00:20:07] and gone on three different maternity leaves.

[00:20:09] And my first, I can absolutely relate to you.

[00:20:13] I mean, I exact same thing.

[00:20:14] I was like obsessed with work while I was out.

[00:20:18] I was like taking care of her, but like, wasn't meeting other moms who were in similar situations.

[00:20:26] And like, I think over time realized, especially having my second where like my second, I disconnected

[00:20:33] a lot more.

[00:20:33] I got into like some moms groups in my area and like really met other women in my local

[00:20:39] community that had babies the same exact age.

[00:20:43] So we could actually like relate and talk to each other and see how each other's are doing

[00:20:47] and how we can support each other.

[00:20:48] And what are you doing for breastfeeding?

[00:20:50] You know, like all of those things.

[00:20:51] And now those women are like really, really good friends of mine to this day, but I don't

[00:20:56] have that little cohort from my first pregnancy.

[00:21:00] Um, but I really just found that like, okay, with my second, like I need this for me.

[00:21:06] I need this for my family and my own mental health and like work will wait.

[00:21:11] Like I'm not gonna get fired.

[00:21:12] I'm not gonna like be left out.

[00:21:15] Like I, you know, like there's so much more to life than work, even though I love my job

[00:21:21] and I'm very passionate about it.

[00:21:23] Um, it took me until having a second child.

[00:21:27] I mean, there's also like a very scary and real element, right?

[00:21:30] You're bringing this child into the world and there's financial obligations associated

[00:21:34] with that.

[00:21:34] And I'm sure many women, you know, either are the sole breadwinner or, you know, it's

[00:21:38] a two income household and the fear of, you know, taking maternity leave and losing your

[00:21:43] job, especially in this economy is, is very real.

[00:21:46] And so, um, I, I wish I had like the magic bullet, but like I, Krista, I think you said

[00:21:52] it well, right?

[00:21:52] Like work can wait.

[00:21:54] And, and if, if you are choosing to work on your maternity leave, ask yourself why is

[00:21:59] it because, is it like out of fear?

[00:22:00] Is it like, and, and just be really clear with yourself about why you're making that choice.

[00:22:04] And, and also what you're sacrificing, right?

[00:22:06] Like you're sacrificing time with your baby, with other moms groups.

[00:22:09] Maybe that's okay with you.

[00:22:10] Maybe you're like, you know what, this is, that's not how I want to spend my time.

[00:22:12] Um, but just being really honest with yourself.

[00:22:15] I think what I regret is the, the, the, um, the, the chaos of it all, right?

[00:22:20] The chaos in my brain and, and, and not being more self-aware of like, oh, I'm reaching

[00:22:24] for my career because like, I need to feel purposeful and I'm not getting that from this child

[00:22:31] who's screaming in my face all the time.

[00:22:33] Totally.

[00:22:33] Yes.

[00:22:35] Well, ladies, I kind of have an opposing view on this, um, because my situation was uniquely

[00:22:44] very different.

[00:22:46] And to your point, and like, I was working, um, asked to go back early from maternity leave

[00:22:53] because I was in the midst of a divorce.

[00:22:56] And so I was very quickly, uh, became a single mom.

[00:23:01] And so I was like, well, I need to work.

[00:23:02] I don't have a choice.

[00:23:03] Um, but always in the back of me is like that type A I want to work and I wanted to have a

[00:23:09] purpose and, you know, she was just sleeping all day anyways.

[00:23:11] So why not?

[00:23:14] Um, so I don't know.

[00:23:15] I struggle sometimes when it's like, okay, you really have to like find the balance because

[00:23:20] sometimes people just don't have an opportunity to have a balance.

[00:23:23] Um, I mean, we're both single parents now and I always like, I never find balance for myself.

[00:23:30] She coaches me on this all the time, but oftentimes I'm like working, feeling guilty.

[00:23:34] I'm not spending time with my now four-year-old.

[00:23:36] And I'm like, what would Krista be doing right now?

[00:23:39] Because she's really good about balance.

[00:23:40] And so I think it's all seasonal.

[00:23:43] It's all situational.

[00:23:46] Um, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's just hard in general being a working parent, let alone

[00:23:51] a working mother.

[00:23:53] That's been my biggest reframe, right?

[00:23:55] It's like, wow, parents are superheroes and they can do anything.

[00:23:59] I'm like, if you're a parent and you're raising a child, you are, you're juggling, man.

[00:24:04] Like it's, yeah, it's a real juggle.

[00:24:06] Do you remember, um, I think it's like a Robitussin commercial or like a DayQuil commercial where

[00:24:13] it says parents don't get a sick day.

[00:24:17] Remember that commercial?

[00:24:18] Yeah.

[00:24:19] Like I think about it all the time because you don't, you don't get sick days.

[00:24:24] You don't get like PTO days really.

[00:24:27] I mean, cause your kids are just always there.

[00:24:29] Yeah.

[00:24:29] Your PTO days are their days off, right?

[00:24:31] Veterans Day I'm taking off because my dad's off.

[00:24:33] And, and my sick days are when he's sick and knock on wood.

[00:24:37] Hopefully I'm not sick.

[00:24:38] But if I am, I'm caring for an infant, you know, kid.

[00:24:42] I was actually, um, sick this weekend and thankfully having an almost five-year-old, she

[00:24:46] was like able to like go get my things and get me water.

[00:24:49] So it's like really nice now to be able to have a functional living.

[00:24:54] Um, but last question for you, because we are actually getting very close to time here, um,

[00:25:00] is I'm just curious, like how did brain trust support your maternity leave and then actually

[00:25:07] seeing you online all the time?

[00:25:09] Or I don't know if they noticed you online, but if they did, like, were they supportive?

[00:25:14] Were they like, I'll just leave it there.

[00:25:17] And like, the question was a question.

[00:25:19] So one of my co-founders was like, great.

[00:25:21] You're ready to come back to work.

[00:25:22] Awesome.

[00:25:23] Like we're ready to have you.

[00:25:24] Um, and my other co-founder kept urging and encouraging me to, uh, get offline and to

[00:25:31] take a break and saying, are you sure?

[00:25:32] And whatever.

[00:25:33] And neither of them was right.

[00:25:35] I, I do wish I had like listened a little bit more to the other co-founder who was saying

[00:25:40] like, what are you doing?

[00:25:41] Um, and just ask myself that question.

[00:25:43] Like, what are you doing?

[00:25:44] Like, why are you doing this?

[00:25:45] Are you doing this because you're scared about your job security?

[00:25:48] If so, like, why don't you speak up and say that, right?

[00:25:51] If I'm this quote unquote, badass woman that Krista thought I was from my comments, like,

[00:25:55] why can't I speak up and be like, Hey guys, like, I'm like a little feeling a little unsure

[00:26:00] about my job security.

[00:26:01] Like, do I have anything to worry about?

[00:26:02] Or like, if I do should, can I come back in some limited capacity and just being more

[00:26:07] intentional about the way I returned to work as opposed to, again, compulsively reviewing

[00:26:11] emails from my bed while breastfeeding, like, which wasn't serving me or the company, right?

[00:26:16] Like, versus like coming back in a way that was like more strategic and more thoughtful.

[00:26:21] Um, cause yeah, I don't know.

[00:26:23] I'll leave it there.

[00:26:25] I mean, but you make a very valid, rational comment.

[00:26:29] Like how many people have we heard about that got laid off during maternity leave these past

[00:26:35] couple of years?

[00:26:35] Like it actually very much is a real thing.

[00:26:38] It's a very real, very real thing.

[00:26:40] And I, you know, I can't imagine having not had a job to come back to like how vulnerable

[00:26:45] that would have been because, um, man, I couldn't wait to get back to work.

[00:26:49] Like I couldn't wait to have an excuse to have childcare.

[00:26:51] Right.

[00:26:51] And the reality is if, if I had lost my job while on maternity leave, like, I don't know

[00:26:55] if we would have had childcare, if I would have been the childcare and what that would

[00:26:58] have done to my mental state.

[00:26:59] The last thing I'll say is you said, like, that's a very clear, rational position about,

[00:27:03] you know, you could have lost your job or whatever.

[00:27:05] Like you're three months postpartum, two, three months postpartum.

[00:27:08] Like I believe nothing is rational.

[00:27:12] I'm like beating myself up for not being more intentional about my return to work, but man,

[00:27:15] you're like, it's survival mode.

[00:27:17] And just giving yourself grace in those times too.

[00:27:20] Yes, exactly.

[00:27:21] Well, thank you, Anne, for joining us.

[00:27:24] And it was such a treat to be able to meet you in Nashville.

[00:27:27] Um, oh wait, no, you weren't there.

[00:27:28] I wasn't in Nashville.

[00:27:29] I was in San Francisco.

[00:27:30] Yeah.

[00:27:31] We met in San Francisco.

[00:27:32] Um, but you met a lot of my team in Nashville at, at Rexxest.

[00:27:35] And, um, it seems like we are in these co-central, co-centric circles that keep, um, coming across

[00:27:41] one another.

[00:27:42] And I'm just so grateful for the talent collective community and all you guys are doing to support

[00:27:45] women in talent acquisition recruiting.

[00:27:48] Um, it's a great initiative led by two incredible, uh, strong female founders.

[00:27:53] So thank you for, for all you guys do.

[00:27:55] Thank you, Anne.

[00:27:56] Um, and where is it best for people to find you?

[00:27:59] I'm guessing LinkedIn being.

[00:28:01] Braintrust.com.

[00:28:02] I'm on LinkedIn.

[00:28:03] Follow Braintrust.

[00:28:04] Um, AI does not do our social media.

[00:28:06] I do.

[00:28:06] So, uh, a lot of times I'll get comments in social or it's like, oh, did AI write this?

[00:28:11] And I'm like, nope, it's me.

[00:28:12] Like, um, it's a, it's a good outlet for my creativity and field comments from all the

[00:28:18] haters.

[00:28:19] So, so yeah, find Braintrust, Braintrust.com.

[00:28:21] Um, we're on LinkedIn.

[00:28:23] I'm personally on LinkedIn.

[00:28:25] Would love to connect with you all.

[00:28:26] Well, thank you again for joining us and thank you everybody for tuning in.

[00:28:30] Um, be sure to like subscribe.

[00:28:32] We're on all the channels, all the things.

[00:28:34] So until next time, we'll see you soon.