Leadership Lessons with Cecilia Ng

[00:00:00] Welcome to the HigherHer Podcast by Talent Collective, presenting conversations with inspiring women in talent. And get ready, ladies, because this is the last time you're going to hear a man's voice on this show.

[00:00:12] Welcome to today's episode of HigherHer Podcast by Talent Collective. Talent Collective is a recruiting community for women in the talent acquisition space.

[00:00:31] And we host guests that are also in the talent acquisition space doing amazing things in our world. So really, really excited to be here with you all today.

[00:00:41] My name is Krista Tan. I'm one of the co-founders of Talent Collective. Natalie, unfortunately, is traveling today. So it's just me. You'll have to just deal with me today. So good luck.

[00:00:55] But I really wanted to give a very, very warm welcome to Cecilia. Cecilia has been a speaker for us before.

[00:01:03] She was on a panel of ours that featured a few different VC talent partners. So we're really, really excited to have her here today to share a little bit more about her personal story and just some other fun things that she has going on in her life and maybe even any nuggets of wisdom.

[00:01:24] So Cecilia, I'm going to pass it to you. So tell us a little bit about yourself and your recruiting story and what you're up to these days.

[00:01:33] Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much, Krista. It is an honor to be here with you.

[00:01:38] A little bit about myself. I started my recruiting career at Google as a contract recruiting coordinator.

[00:01:45] Then I spent some time abroad living in Sao Paulo, Brazil and Hong Kong before coming back to the U.S.

[00:01:51] So I've worked across industries between agencies, consumer goods, telco, financial services.

[00:02:00] And then back here in the U.S. I've spent more time with companies like Facebook and Robinhood.

[00:02:05] And now I've been with MVP Ventures as the talent partner for the past two years.

[00:02:11] So, yeah, I think in terms of what I've been up to today is spending a lot of time working with early stage founders, building out their founding teams, which is really exciting.

[00:02:22] It's the type of work that I really enjoy, really being able to be a thought partner and a sounding board and helping think about a problem from a bigger picture versus simply saying, hey, this is a role that we need to hire.

[00:02:37] How do we hire for it? But what are a lot of the business outcomes that we would expect from this hire?

[00:02:43] So on and so forth. So, yeah, I'm excited to dive into it a little bit deeper.

[00:02:49] But that's a little bit on my background.

[00:02:51] Amazing. Yeah, I think we talked about this on the panel a while back, but I think the VC talent partner role is still there's a little mystery to it

[00:03:02] because most people are either on the agency side or internal like your background.

[00:03:09] And so and also a lot of the VC talent partner roles can really vary pretty drastically depending on what VC you're at and what stage companies you work with and how large the VC is.

[00:03:21] But it sounds like your role is a lot of like advising and strategy and kind of being, like you said, that thought partner to is it mostly the founders that you're working with?

[00:03:33] Yes, typically work with founders, also collaborate a lot with the heads of talents within our portfolios.

[00:03:38] So it really depends. We try and be as flexible and develop more bespoke solutions for our different portfolio companies in the different stages and what they may need.

[00:03:51] OK, well, exciting. I'm also really curious, just given this wild market that we've been in a few last years,

[00:04:03] what you're seeing right now with your portfolio companies, do you think hiring has started to improve at all?

[00:04:11] I know I've personally been hearing like sales hiring is picking up and a lot of tech companies.

[00:04:16] What are you seeing out there?

[00:04:19] Yeah, and this is probably due to the fact that our firm is focused on early stage and deep tech, which encompasses AI.

[00:04:26] AI, as you probably all know, AI is a huge focus within kind of the broader tech ecosystem.

[00:04:33] So definitely a lot of AI hiring. A lot of the hiring that I've been seeing with our companies are steady.

[00:04:40] It's very rare that they're like, oh, we need to hire five people all at once.

[00:04:45] They kind of think through, like, how do we prioritize?

[00:04:47] Especially with smaller teams, it's extremely difficult to hire for several different headcount at the very same time.

[00:04:54] And so how do we think about that? How do we prioritize?

[00:04:58] But I think things are definitely picking up.

[00:05:03] Definitely not like 2021 or like early 2022 stage, but which is probably a good thing.

[00:05:09] I think folks are a lot more intentional about their hiring and plan more about actually what they need versus let's just hire and see where they where we can fit them in.

[00:05:20] And I have seen kind of growth in all different areas.

[00:05:25] I think in terms of go to market, probably more the marketing profile has has come up a little bit more than maybe a more pure sales like function.

[00:05:35] But again, this may be because our portfolio includes more earlier stage companies.

[00:05:41] OK, good, good feedback.

[00:05:43] Well, thanks for sharing that.

[00:05:45] Tell me, and you've worked at so many different companies and so many amazing companies over the years,

[00:05:51] and I'm sure it's probably hard to really nail down one story.

[00:05:55] But are there any candidate stories that you wanted to highlight or talk about?

[00:06:01] Maybe somebody you placed or helped along the way that was just a really special experience for you and that person?

[00:06:09] Yeah, I would say, you know, I 100 percent agree.

[00:06:13] There's just so many great stories.

[00:06:15] I feel like every candidate that I've had a chance to work with, it feels like a privilege.

[00:06:21] And I would say probably like some of the hires that I made at Robin Hood because I worked with a really amazing engineering director at the time.

[00:06:31] And we were true partners.

[00:06:33] He was extremely willing to pull his own weight when it came to recruiting.

[00:06:39] And I think working with someone like that, it just facilitates the process and really helps you be able to think more strategically and take some risks as well.

[00:06:50] Because you could talk through like, what are the things that we're actually trying to solve for?

[00:06:54] And how do we talk about this together so that we can come up with an answer that really makes sense,

[00:07:00] like both from a more immediate term, but also like a longer term?

[00:07:03] And so we were able to build out an amazing team that are kind of the earlier stage of ML.

[00:07:10] This was before when ChatGPT came out and everyone's thinking about how to leverage like natural language processing and whatnot.

[00:07:18] And we were able to build this amazing team of like ML engineers.

[00:07:22] And both of them were female engineers.

[00:07:25] And that's something that obviously I feel very proud of and very happy that we're able to just bring more diversity to the team.

[00:07:35] And so that felt like a huge win on a lot of different fronts.

[00:07:39] Yeah, I bet that was just, I mean, it's innovative even right now, but I bet that was just so innovative at the time.

[00:07:47] And like you said, bringing in female engineers into that ML role, I'm sure it was just, like you said, just such a huge highlight and something to be so proud of.

[00:07:57] So that's awesome.

[00:07:58] Thanks for sharing that.

[00:08:00] It also sounds like you had a really amazing leader that you looked up to and really had that great partnership.

[00:08:07] Absolutely.

[00:08:08] Yeah.

[00:08:09] So on the note of like either leadership or people that you looked up to along the way in your career, is there someone in particular that you can think of that has really helped elevate you in your career somewhere along the way?

[00:08:25] Yeah, I would say I was very fortunate to have really incredible managers for a majority of my career.

[00:08:33] And maybe kind of my longest tenure was with Facebook.

[00:08:37] And there were a lot of incredible female leaders there that inspired me.

[00:08:42] I would say definitely one of my managers from Instagram, just the way that she led by example in terms of the way that she operated and how she would always empower me to do my best work and also empower everyone around her to be able to deliver like the best outcome.

[00:09:02] And she always had your back.

[00:09:04] I feel like that type of characteristic of someone that's not just there to say, hey, I'm here to support you and, you know, kind of verbally kind of give you that support, but to truly in action advocate for you when it really matters, give you projects that really help stretch you and help you build skills and flex muscles that you may not have had the chance to previously.

[00:09:30] I think that's kind of where it really matters and putting a lot of what a lot of times people talk about actually into action.

[00:09:40] And I've seen that and I've seen that happen and I've seen how it's helped me grow and something that I carry with me through my career.

[00:09:47] So I definitely feel very fortunate and appreciative to have had these leaders in my career.

[00:09:55] Yeah, that's amazing.

[00:09:56] You mentioned that this particular leader really empowered you to do your best work.

[00:10:03] I'm curious to drill down into that a little bit.

[00:10:08] I read a book once that, oh my gosh, I'm forgetting the name of it, but they talked about like the best managers are the managers that almost like hold you accountable to doing your best work and don't let you get away with doing mediocre work.

[00:10:26] And one of the strategies they talked about was like saying when, when you deliver something, you know, is this your best work?

[00:10:35] Like, is this the best you can do?

[00:10:37] And if not, take it back and come back to me with your best.

[00:10:42] Did that manager of yours have any particular strategies that she used to really empower you to do your best work?

[00:10:51] Uh, so I personally think it's really, uh, you know, being transparent and, uh, and giving the information that you have, because I think sometimes there are certain leaders that, you know, maybe unintentionally they hear something and maybe they don't want to say it or they feel like, oh, maybe it's not appropriate, whatever the situation may be.

[00:11:15] But I think being transparent, but obviously in a respectful way, obviously there are things that do need a hundred percent like confidentiality, but in other ways, like if it can be shared and it can help kind of shape the context of the problem that we're trying to solve for.

[00:11:32] Um, I feel like this particular, uh, manager of mine was always very candid about, Hey, here are things that I think we can fix and this is what we should focus on.

[00:11:41] You know, think about it and like, you know, let me know what you would do in this with what, you know, and like, and let's like talk about that and discuss that further.

[00:11:51] Um, and then just allowing you to actually do it.

[00:11:54] Right.

[00:11:54] Because I've also had managers that are the opposite where they give very little context or kind of the direction that they're giving is like, you know, you know, so-and-so, uh, director from which team wants us to do this.

[00:12:11] So let's just go do X, Y, Z. And in my mind, I'm like, well, in that situation, I'm not necessarily the person that needs to do this or help solve this problem.

[00:12:22] It sounds like it's already been done and you're just asking someone to go and execute it.

[00:12:26] And so in that case, like, is it something that is actually a carved out problem that needs to be solved?

[00:12:32] And, and this could be due to my own nature and my personality.

[00:12:36] And like, I feel like problem solving is what gives me the most like satisfaction and job gratification.

[00:12:43] And so, uh, in those situations, it becomes really hard to be like, well, how do I actually navigate this?

[00:12:49] It sounds like someone just wants something done a certain way.

[00:12:52] Um, is it just, I need to figure out how to put these like specific pieces and maybe they don't fit together, but I'm just going to try and brute force my way into like making this work versus actually having the, the room to work on something and say, this actually needs to be solved and, and work that actually needs to be done.

[00:13:12] Um, and then I think to your point, right, there is that accountability, accountability is like, this is what we're, uh, solving for, right.

[00:13:21] Kind of documenting, like, what is the ultimate goal that we are looking to achieve and how do we, uh, report against that?

[00:13:28] A lot of times when you're in more programmatic work, which is a lot of the work that I did, um, even, um, at Facebook, uh, it's a little bit harder to quantify, but as, as much as you can, right.

[00:13:39] You try and document that and, and then, um, and that accountability and ownership, I think is actually, uh, what is the most exciting about a particular role, right.

[00:13:51] In, in a particular, uh, uh, goal that you may have set for yourself or for your team, so on and so forth.

[00:13:59] Well, it sounds like you're in a great role for yourself right now, given that, you know, there's probably a ton of problem solving that you're helping your portfolio companies with.

[00:14:07] So thank you.

[00:14:09] Yeah.

[00:14:11] Um, awesome.

[00:14:12] Well, we'd love to, um, go a little deeper here.

[00:14:16] Um, we love to just try to get, you know, kind of vulnerable on the podcast and hear stories from people of just being a human and being a human involves challenges, right.

[00:14:29] And whether that's in your personal life or in your professional life, what is a challenge that you've had, um, somewhere along the way that, um, really was, you know, maybe pretty difficult for you.

[00:14:42] And then how did you overcome that or solve that?

[00:14:45] And what did you learn from that?

[00:14:48] Uh, yeah, I mean, there's definitely, uh, a lot of different, um, situations that I could probably think of.

[00:14:57] Um, and maybe I will talk about one where, um, it's the matter of kind of taking a leap of faith.

[00:15:08] Right. And, um, when I first moved to Hong Kong, I had, you know, joined, uh, Verizon business at the time and, uh, we were working through an RPO at that time.

[00:15:20] And so it was a very new model for me.

[00:15:23] And obviously this is a new market, uh, a brand new role.

[00:15:27] So there's a lot of things that I didn't know and, um, was kind of learning a lot of different things at the very same time.

[00:15:34] And kind of quickly realized that, you know, we were, a lot of us were working like in silos and this is where, you know, I think the support and that you get from your team really helps you think about how you do things a little bit differently.

[00:15:51] Right. And, and sometimes it's also okay to be like, I just realized that this isn't the right environment for me.

[00:15:59] And there is actually something better and it's okay for me to go and pursue it.

[00:16:03] Uh, because I think a lot of times, uh, when we look at resumes, especially more recently, right?

[00:16:09] People may have shorter stints in their career.

[00:16:12] Um, and a lot of times that's very looked upon very poorly.

[00:16:17] And for me that this is an experience where I, I like to tell hiring managers, well, there usually is some sort of a narrative behind it and we just need to uncover what it is.

[00:16:27] Right. And sure.

[00:16:29] I'm sure there are track records and whatnot, but it's always good to dig a little bit deeper.

[00:16:33] And in this particular situation, it really is one of those where, um, I realized that if I were in an in-house role, it would be much more suited for what I wanted to do and how I wanted to work.

[00:16:46] And, uh, the type of involvement I wanted with senior leadership and really kind of understanding and alignment with a broader team strategy that would be to kind of department companies, so on and so forth.

[00:16:59] And, and those things were really important to me.

[00:17:02] And so, um, kind of being vulnerable and being able to talk to your coworkers about that.

[00:17:08] And I had such amazing coworkers at that time, every single one of them, we were all spread across the Asia Pacific region.

[00:17:15] So there was no one in office that we necessarily would be like, Hey, can we just go grab lunch or something like that?

[00:17:21] It was, you know, you would have to hop on a call back then.

[00:17:24] Zoom was not really a thing.

[00:17:26] I think Cisco like WebEx was something that we would use, but, uh, it wasn't something we had full access to at all times.

[00:17:33] And so still being able to build that, um, relationship with these folks that I'm still friends with today and the type of support that they lended to me is something that I still think about and still remember.

[00:17:45] Um, so it kind of ties into a lot of the things that I think are important when we look at someone's profile and also like for ourselves in our careers.

[00:17:54] Like sometimes it does take that leap of faith to say, if it's something that doesn't feel like it's working and you have found something that you think is more aligned, um, it's okay to go ahead and take that leap of faith and give it a try.

[00:18:08] Um, so I, I would say that that would be one of the experiences that I would highlight.

[00:18:12] Ah, very nice.

[00:18:14] Very nice.

[00:18:14] Yeah.

[00:18:14] And, and being vulnerable and, you know, kind of taking a risk.

[00:18:18] I mean, sometimes it's hard to speak up, but I think oftentimes it does pay off and, um, I'm doing a lot of thinking about my kids and like how I bring them up and giving them opportunities to be challenged.

[00:18:31] And like, yeah, not always get their way.

[00:18:34] And to like, you know, not intentionally put them into challenges, but let them kind of work through those things because then when you become an adult, like the stakes are so much higher.

[00:18:44] And, um, you know, if, if you're not going to speak up about things, then, um, it can really kind of damage whatever situation you're in.

[00:18:55] And if, if you really know that things aren't right.

[00:18:58] Absolutely.

[00:19:01] Um, so last question for you, you've mentioned a couple of times, all of the world travel that you've done and living in several different places all around the world.

[00:19:11] Um, so I know that when you're in different cultures and, um, different environments than what you're used to, um, you know, traveling just in general can, can inspire some very funny, hilarious moments.

[00:19:26] Um, so do you have any funny stories from all of your travel?

[00:19:32] Uh, yeah, uh, definitely a lot.

[00:19:35] I, um, like, I think funny moments that stand out in my mind will probably always be, uh, my first real job in Sao Paulo with Robert Half.

[00:19:45] And, um, I probably spoke intermediate Portuguese at that time.

[00:19:49] I, I honestly don't know how I got the job.

[00:19:52] And again, I feel very lucky to have people that just took a leap of faith and, and decided to give it a try.

[00:20:00] And, um, and, you know, the first day I started and, you know, I'm just trying to absorb everything.

[00:20:07] Uh, there were words in Portuguese that are very basic to what our day-to-day would be that I didn't know.

[00:20:14] And I think, you know, definitely my boss at the time, like, would hesitate to, and really feel like, did I make the right decision here?

[00:20:22] What have I done?

[00:20:23] Um, and just from, I think, you know, learning a new language and, uh, you know, during that process of trying to learn this and, like, doing this in an entire office that is just filled with, like, rows of, like, seats.

[00:20:38] You didn't have your own office or anything like that.

[00:20:40] Everyone could hear more or less what other people are, like, saying.

[00:20:44] And, um, my boss obviously would never, uh, give up the opportunity to highlight things that I would say wrong or whatnot.

[00:20:51] And, but I think at the end of the day, that was such a great experience for me because, first of all, they took the leap of faith in even hiring me.

[00:20:59] And, um, what I had learned both from a language perspective as well as, you know, recruiting and a lot of the basics.

[00:21:08] Like, it was this boot camp I, I had an opportunity to be a part of, um, really elevated, I think, you know, the level of discipline that I think that's really important in, in talent acquisition.

[00:21:19] And, uh, kind of that tenacity that you need to kind of just keep going in that grit.

[00:21:25] Um, and, you know, and, and all of this, I think it's also just, uh, endearing in a way, you know, I never in any moment really felt like, oh, wow, you know, they're, they're making fun of me.

[00:21:38] I think they just thought it was so funny.

[00:21:41] Um, but at the same time, it's like, it was such a, uh, growth opportunity for me.

[00:21:47] And so, uh, those are days that I definitely remember very fondly in a way.

[00:21:52] Uh, we also had worked extremely long hours.

[00:21:55] And so it's also like friendships that we have built and friends that I have until, you know, this day of kind of like what we went through during that time together.

[00:22:04] And like the commodity that you're able to build like through that experience.

[00:22:08] And so, um, definitely, uh, some really, really funny times there.

[00:22:13] Oh my gosh.

[00:22:14] I love it.

[00:22:14] Well, you're so brave to go to another country, speaking English kind of, you know, moderately and go into a new role.

[00:22:23] Um, I don't think I could ever be that brave.

[00:22:26] So hats off to you.

[00:22:28] Um, and I definitely hear you too on the, you know, kind of being, um, in the thick of it where you're in a lot of challenges with your teammates.

[00:22:36] Um, I had a very similar situation when I worked in agency where like that team that I was on, you know, with those other, you know, five or six women, like we are all so tight to this day, lifelong friends, because I mean.

[00:22:53] The craziest things happened and, you know, if we're like, we can survive this, we can survive anything.

[00:22:59] Right.

[00:23:01] Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:02] Exactly.

[00:23:03] And, you know, and those are the things, those are the most memorable, uh, you know, situations.

[00:23:09] And, uh, and so it's, yeah, that's something that I will definitely cherish.

[00:23:14] Oh, well, awesome.

[00:23:16] Well, we're wrapping up now, but I just wanted to say a huge, huge thank you for being here today.

[00:23:22] And, um, you know, we would love to keep in touch with you and follow along on your career journey.

[00:23:29] Absolutely.

[00:23:30] Um, we can have people connect with you on LinkedIn after this.

[00:23:34] Um, and to all of our listeners, thanks for tuning in and you can find us on any of your podcast channels.

[00:23:40] Um, you can also find talent collective online at www.talentcollectiveco.com.

[00:23:48] Um, and we'd love to connect with you.

[00:23:51] So I hope everyone has a great rest of your day.

[00:23:53] Bye-bye.

[00:23:54] Thank you.

[00:23:55] Bye.

[00:23:56] Bye.