Connecting on a Higher Level with Danielle Mathis - HigherHer Ep 13

[00:00:00] Welcome to the HigherHer Podcast by Talent Collective, presenting conversations with inspiring women in talent. And get ready ladies, because this is the last time you're going to hear a man's voice on this show.

[00:00:17] Hi everyone and welcome to today's episode of HigherHer, a podcast put on by Talent Collective. Talent Collective is a community for women in the recruiting space and we welcome you here today.

[00:00:29] Very excited to be here with a very, very special guest who we love and adore.

[00:00:34] But first my name is Krista Tan, I'm one of the co-founders of Talent Collective and I'm joined here by my other co-founder, Natalie Stones. Hello Natalie.

[00:00:44] Hello.

[00:00:45] Natski.

[00:00:48] Alright, so today's guest, excuse me, is Danielle Mathis.

[00:00:53] Danielle is somebody who I've now known for a couple of years.

[00:00:57] The way we met was very fun.

[00:01:01] And then I was fortunate enough to introduce Danielle to Natalie as well.

[00:01:06] So I interviewed for a role at Clary and Danielle was just phenomenal.

[00:01:14] And I had like big fangirl vibes the entire time.

[00:01:19] I wanted to work with her so, so bad and her boss at the time.

[00:01:22] But now Danielle is the big boss lady.

[00:01:25] So I'm very excited to hear all about her story.

[00:01:28] But Danielle is the head of recruiting and talent acquisition at Clary.

[00:01:35] So Danielle, we'll pass it over to you right now.

[00:01:38] We'd love to hear all about you and your background, your recruiting journey and all the good stuff.

[00:01:44] Yes, happy.

[00:01:45] Just hello.

[00:01:46] Hello you two.

[00:01:47] Hello.

[00:01:48] Every time I see either of your names pop up, I'm instantly, there's excited cortisol happening.

[00:01:54] Oh my gosh.

[00:01:55] It's adrenaline really.

[00:01:57] You guys are both just so phenomenal.

[00:01:59] But thank you for having me on today.

[00:02:01] I love all the work you guys are doing and was humbled to get the ask.

[00:02:07] But I will share my story and how I got into TA because as most people in TA, it was a little unconventional how I landed in TA.

[00:02:18] But I graduated college at a time where there was a downturn in the market.

[00:02:24] No one wanted to hire anyone.

[00:02:26] And I knew there were folks that needed internships.

[00:02:29] And so I had started a company at the time where my company placed, instead of hiring full-time employees, everyone was trying to hire interns.

[00:02:39] So I said, hey, well, there's kind of money to be made here.

[00:02:42] There's all of these college folks that are in their junior and senior year that are looking to get an internship.

[00:02:49] And there's all of these companies that need interns.

[00:02:51] And so my company was kind of the conduit.

[00:02:53] So when I graduated, I did that.

[00:02:55] And then I sold that to a recruiting firm at the time, a couple years out of college.

[00:03:00] And I thought, gosh, I got to go use that marketing degree that mom and dad helped with them.

[00:03:05] So I did that.

[00:03:07] And I was in marketing, product marketing events for a long time.

[00:03:13] And I got laid off.

[00:03:15] Right?

[00:03:15] They were moving my role overseas to Germany, which wasn't in the cards for me at the time.

[00:03:21] And so I thought, what am I good at?

[00:03:23] And how can I take my skills and transcend industry?

[00:03:27] Which I think a lot of times is how we as good recruiters, like we're always putting that hat on.

[00:03:32] And so I thought, well, I'm really good at connecting people.

[00:03:36] Like that's where my heart is.

[00:03:37] And I was kind of always naturally doing that in my life and going back to that, like those TA roots.

[00:03:42] And so I just honestly cold called basically the best firm I knew that was hiring marketers in San Diego at the time.

[00:03:53] And that was Turning Point Executive Search.

[00:03:55] And I said, hey, look, I'd probably be a great candidate for you.

[00:03:59] But actually, I want to get into TA again.

[00:04:03] And Ken Schmidt, who runs that firm, was like, well, let's have lunch.

[00:04:10] Which was awesome because I was willing to come in and learn from the ground up sort of his firm and how he ran things and grew my career there from an IC into the management track overseeing his marketing and operations practice.

[00:04:29] And so that was like a fun time.

[00:04:32] And it was like a very lucrative time because everyone was hiring.

[00:04:36] And so it was a really, really neat experience to kind of follow that journey and be grown by somebody who was just prolific in his management.

[00:04:44] It was really a great experience to learn that way and be able to put that hat on.

[00:04:49] And then I did that for about eight years and I thought, gosh, I got introduced to Clary and I said, I have to take this opportunity.

[00:04:58] There's it was one of those, you know, where you're like, OK, I'm doing this.

[00:05:02] And it was a big leap of faith at the time because they didn't have the role that I was going to be brought over for.

[00:05:08] And so I said, that's OK.

[00:05:11] Like, I just did this.

[00:05:12] I've done this before.

[00:05:13] Right. Like, I'll start here and it'll take me to a different place.

[00:05:17] And so I did that and I wasn't afraid to just kind of do any and everything and meet all the stakeholders and make my mark where it made sense.

[00:05:28] And I grew into now owning the global talent acquisition for Clary as well as the HRBP side of the house.

[00:05:38] So that's been a cool marriage, too.

[00:05:40] Something different and kind of we've seen this before in time in TA.

[00:05:44] So that's where I'm at now.

[00:05:47] Oh, my goodness.

[00:05:48] Well, such a fun journey.

[00:05:50] And I know that when you and I first chatted, I was actually at the point where I was transitioning or trying to make that transition from agency to internal.

[00:06:00] And I remember us just connecting about that in the interview process because, you know, there's so many people that think that like, I don't know, there's just this weird dynamic where like a lot of people start out in agency and then transition to in-house.

[00:06:16] And they're freaking rock stars because of it.

[00:06:19] Right. Because like, you know, usually agency is like the best training ground.

[00:06:23] But then there's also this weird dynamic of like, oh, you're you're not as great because you're in agency or something like that.

[00:06:30] And I remember you were just like so supportive in my conversation with you about like, no, I know how hard it is in agency and I know you'd freaking kill it here.

[00:06:40] You know, like you just had that like you gave me that boost of confidence that I think I needed at that point.

[00:06:46] And I will tell you that the thing that I think is so cool is that in-house recruiter, agency recruiter, we're all recruiters.

[00:06:56] And I think if you're good, you're good.

[00:06:58] And I think you can thrive in any in any environment.

[00:07:01] And I just think that you got to learn. It's just different.

[00:07:04] I always say, like, those are apples and oranges, actually. Right.

[00:07:08] And in terms of of how you have to operate.

[00:07:13] But really, I would say that the fundamentals are the same.

[00:07:17] So I love it because I just I love I love that agency hustle.

[00:07:21] Mm hmm.

[00:07:23] But but I think coming in and being able to to utilize that skill set,

[00:07:29] but but also not be frustrated by the workings of being internal somewhere, because that is a machine and you have to understand the machine.

[00:07:37] You got to figure out the machine and then you thrive.

[00:07:41] Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:07:42] Great.

[00:07:44] Well, I would love to hear with all of your years in T.A.

[00:07:49] And do you have maybe like a funny story that you could tell us, maybe a recruiting fail or something that just, you know, didn't go as well as you had hoped that ended up being just a really funny thing that you can look back on now?

[00:08:04] You know, we have a wild one. This this happened not long ago, but you get to a certain point in a in a company where people are doing crazy things.

[00:08:14] And we had somebody who was sending like fraudulent offer letters to people.

[00:08:18] OK, they were saying like, hey, you've been hired by Clary.

[00:08:21] And so we had like kind of a good amount of people reaching out to us being like, hey, I think I'm starting tomorrow.

[00:08:26] You know, these were earlier in career and we were going, hold the phone.

[00:08:30] Right. We called and we got it all figured out.

[00:08:35] And those people were OK.

[00:08:36] We figured out a way to help them, like figure out what was next for them in their journey.

[00:08:40] And they none of them were like quitting jobs or anything like that.

[00:08:43] They were all early in career, but just graduating college, actually.

[00:08:47] So we we helped them land softly, but we actually were able to hire several of them.

[00:08:53] So it ended up being this like amazing thing and cool story, like full circle moment where we were like, gosh, this started off really like, oh, no.

[00:09:02] And ended up really like, well, this was this was serendipitous and amazing.

[00:09:07] And they're here and thriving.

[00:09:09] And so that was one that was that recently comes to mind.

[00:09:13] Oh, my goodness. That is such a wow.

[00:09:16] Such a great story. And like a wonderful turn of events. Right.

[00:09:20] Like serendipity.

[00:09:22] Serendipity.

[00:09:22] It was serendipitous for sure.

[00:09:24] That's crazy.

[00:09:26] Yeah.

[00:09:26] Did you ever figure out who was doing it?

[00:09:28] We did.

[00:09:29] We did.

[00:09:30] And thankful.

[00:09:31] Thankful that we did.

[00:09:32] You did.

[00:09:33] Yes.

[00:09:35] I always go off script, please.

[00:09:38] So I have an off script controversial question for you.

[00:09:42] Let's do it.

[00:09:42] I was talking with somebody earlier today.

[00:09:45] I'm one of our future founding members, because I think we're going to launch DC in January.

[00:09:51] Or sorry, February.

[00:09:53] But they were like, oh, we really, you know, we want to bring the topic of should recruiting be folded back into HR.

[00:10:00] And my first reaction was, I literally like did that.

[00:10:04] And so hearing you say like, okay, now I'm over TA, plus now the HRBPs.

[00:10:10] Can I pose this controversial question to you?

[00:10:14] What do you think?

[00:10:16] I think you're not the first one.

[00:10:18] I have heard gasp when I tell them like the remit of my role now.

[00:10:22] They're like, yeah, there is like this overt, like, oh, what does that mean?

[00:10:26] How do you talk about that?

[00:10:27] I think that the thing that has been the most paramount to us in our business has actually been this move.

[00:10:35] And I think the reason for that is we're taking the knowledge that we have about the inner workings of our business in terms of team makeup, maybe how a team dynamic is, the things that they need in order to take, go from, from to, right, that next level.

[00:10:58] So we're able to take this real time data and mix it with what we're out there looking for.

[00:11:03] And we can tweak accordingly based off of those things.

[00:11:07] And so it's been this really beautiful dynamic between the recruiters and the HRBPs.

[00:11:14] They actually meet weekly just to talk about like, hey, how are things going?

[00:11:18] What's going on?

[00:11:19] Okay, that's interesting.

[00:11:21] They're involved in the interview process too, right?

[00:11:23] So it's kind of this, it's been this really great full circle moment.

[00:11:28] And it's actually created such a beautiful dynamic once people walk through the door because they already have this great touch point with HR to be able to partner the right way in the business, which I feel like sometimes people don't really understand or know where they're like nervous or hesitant, like, ooh, HR, right?

[00:11:47] But like, actually the best gift.

[00:11:51] So it's been really, it's landed really, really well for us.

[00:11:55] That's kind of cool.

[00:11:56] Yeah.

[00:11:57] Do you want to fly to DC for panel?

[00:12:00] At a minimum, that could be a great topic for our member community.

[00:12:08] Okay.

[00:12:09] So going back to your journey, Ken Schmidt was kind of the, maybe the one that like really gave you the opportunity.

[00:12:18] But would you say him or someone else really elevated you in your recruiting career?

[00:12:23] Who might that have been and, and how did they elevate you?

[00:12:26] Yeah, you know, I will say it was, it was definitely in tandem with Ken and he had a counterpart at the time, Dina Hemi, who has since started her, her own firm.

[00:12:37] And I would say it was both of them.

[00:12:41] And I think that the thing they did, which I really try to embody, especially with working with folks that are trying to maybe go from to in their career or elevate to the next level is being really authentic and bringing like allowing for them to bring their whole self and me bringing my whole self.

[00:12:59] So transparency, right?

[00:13:01] Like you look, you and opening the opportunity for feedback because not everybody is open to feedback or they want to receive it in a certain way.

[00:13:09] And that's totally cool.

[00:13:10] Let's talk about how you want camera off when I'm talking to you about feedback.

[00:13:13] Let's do that.

[00:13:14] You want to, you want to be alerted.

[00:13:16] So you have a moment to like understand that's coming.

[00:13:19] Totally.

[00:13:20] And, and really making sure that we create this cool feedback loop on how we can get someone from to whether that's like how they're going to be.

[00:13:29] How they approach critical thinking in attacking a role and sourcing for something all the way to pitching an executive, you know, candidate or something to that effect.

[00:13:43] Maybe thinking through ways to come up creative for offer.

[00:13:47] Right.

[00:13:47] And just making sure that people are getting what their needs are met for their long term goals.

[00:13:54] And they did that for me.

[00:13:56] And they did it in baby steps, right?

[00:13:58] Like first it was, and then we moved the needle forward and we met or moved the needle forward from there.

[00:14:04] And I think part of that was like my responsibility because I was asking them for the help.

[00:14:11] And so knowing, knowing, not even just my shortcomings, but like areas that I wanted to learn or grow and then, and then giving them the opportunity to tell me areas I needed to learn and grow.

[00:14:23] So.

[00:14:24] Amazing.

[00:14:26] It was Dina, right?

[00:14:27] Dina.

[00:14:28] Yeah.

[00:14:28] I remember meeting her.

[00:14:30] That's right.

[00:14:31] Yeah.

[00:14:32] She was great.

[00:14:33] She still has her agency.

[00:14:34] She does.

[00:14:35] It's called Hem Dev Recruiting.

[00:14:37] Shameless plug.

[00:14:39] Yeah.

[00:14:40] Awesome.

[00:14:40] Cool.

[00:14:42] Well, let's dig in a little bit more to recruiting and some best practices.

[00:14:47] And I think this is an especially interesting question for you, given that you also manage the HRBPs at your organization.

[00:14:55] And so, you know, in this, in this market, obviously recruiting and then retaining good employees can be really challenging.

[00:15:04] So what's something that you've tried that you've had a lot of success with?

[00:15:09] I think there's been, I have to think about this really two things that have been helpful.

[00:15:16] Understanding motivators for people.

[00:15:18] Like, is it that you're money motivated?

[00:15:20] Are you accolades motivated?

[00:15:22] Are you, is it title?

[00:15:24] Like, what is it for you?

[00:15:26] Um, so that's like one piece, like working against that or towards that, I should say.

[00:15:32] And then I think the other thing is creating a really fricking awesome environment that people want to be at.

[00:15:40] Like we spend so much of our time at work.

[00:15:42] If you don't love what you do and the people you do it with, like mostly, right, there's always going to be an outlier to that.

[00:15:49] Like, Oh, the problem job, like in terms of maybe somebody you're working with cross functionally or something like that.

[00:15:53] But like, if 95% of what you're doing is making you happy and you're like vibing and, and feeling this connection or growth from or whatever it is for you.

[00:16:05] And you're nailing it.

[00:16:07] Mm hmm.

[00:16:07] And really, I say 90% because I always say, hey, look, there's the 10% that we nobody like loves to do.

[00:16:12] Mm hmm.

[00:16:14] Most recruiters don't love the admin side of what they're doing.

[00:16:17] Right.

[00:16:18] Right.

[00:16:18] But like, I think if you've got that.

[00:16:21] And so I really do focus on culture.

[00:16:23] Mm hmm.

[00:16:24] That's been, that's been, I know that's such a like cliche, everybody says it, but like really at the root of it, no matter how busy I am or where I'm at in the world, like the small talk or the banter or the, hey, let's, let's make sure we get a little happy hour going or not letting those things drop because it can.

[00:16:43] And I just like, it's just a non-negotiable for me.

[00:16:47] Yeah.

[00:16:47] Well, and it's like, it's so funny because, you know, everyone talks about culture, right?

[00:16:52] And like, and what is a good culture?

[00:16:55] And that means very different things to different people.

[00:16:58] But like, I think what you're talking about, and which I also agree with is the mark of a good culture, our relationships and like, you know, bringing importance to like, you're human, I'm a human.

[00:17:12] And like, let's connect on that level and not just talk about work all day.

[00:17:17] Cause you know, it's like.

[00:17:19] Cause you could do that easily.

[00:17:21] You, yeah.

[00:17:22] Yeah.

[00:17:23] Bring the fun.

[00:17:24] Yep.

[00:17:25] And then I loved what you said the first about like what motivates people.

[00:17:31] Um, this is a little bit more on like just total rewards in general, but there's a company we had a panel months ago with, um, it was more about like total compensation, total rewards, um, a company called work life.

[00:17:45] And they, their whole thing is all about like giving people the benefits and perks that they want, not what you decide, which I think is so smart.

[00:17:57] I think that's going to continue to be a trend.

[00:18:00] It's funny.

[00:18:00] I know those guys really well.

[00:18:01] I've actually had a cool one of them, which is a funny, funny, funny.

[00:18:04] Um, and I think what they're doing is fricking awesome.

[00:18:08] And I think that's going to be, uh, a huge shift for us.

[00:18:14] Um, as we see the, the job market shift, I really do think that it's not a one size fits all anymore.

[00:18:23] Yeah.

[00:18:24] And so I, I love what they're doing.

[00:18:26] I think that that is, that is a trend I'm starting to see more as I'm looking across.

[00:18:30] And I, I like, we've talked about adopting that here at Clary.

[00:18:34] I think it's something that I'm seeing a big movement in.

[00:18:37] Yep.

[00:18:38] Definitely.

[00:18:39] Awesome.

[00:18:39] Thanks.

[00:18:40] I love that platform.

[00:18:42] Um,

[00:18:42] awesome.

[00:18:44] Last question.

[00:18:46] So when you think about women in leadership, um, what are the essential qualities that,

[00:18:56] you know, we can all collectively help cultivate to get more women in TA into leadership roles?

[00:19:02] Chris and I talk regularly about like anecdotally or in our gut, we feel like

[00:19:07] there are so many more men in TA leadership roles.

[00:19:10] You would be a great exception to this.

[00:19:13] Um, so we're very passionate.

[00:19:15] Obviously about helping elevate more ICs into those roles, but are there certain things or

[00:19:20] qualities that you do with, you know, any young professional women on your team to make sure

[00:19:25] that they're set up for success or at your prior companies?

[00:19:28] I love this question.

[00:19:30] I love this question.

[00:19:30] It was actually the one where I was like, yes.

[00:19:32] Like I immediately jumped out, highlight it.

[00:19:35] We got to answer this question.

[00:19:36] I think, um, there's a, there's two things that immediately came to mind, which were being data driven.

[00:19:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:19:46] Like I think like, you can't argue with the numbers, right?

[00:19:50] These are the five priorities.

[00:19:52] You're putting another priority on my plate.

[00:19:53] What's it going to, right?

[00:19:54] Like just down to the little basics of that, but really leaning into being all things data driven.

[00:20:00] Hey, you, this is the capacity planning.

[00:20:02] You're asking us to do X, Y, and Z.

[00:20:04] This requires one other recruiter or we're okay with a backlog.

[00:20:09] So you tell me the answer.

[00:20:11] And I think the other thing is having conviction and owning your conversation.

[00:20:17] Yeah.

[00:20:18] That's really hard.

[00:20:19] It's super hard.

[00:20:20] And it's something that I think you have to build in time.

[00:20:26] And it is something I think as women systemically, we, uh, we have to work harder at because

[00:20:36] like there's, there's no need for explanation there.

[00:20:38] I think that we are not taught that as, as, um, readily.

[00:20:46] And so I think challenging that norm and making sure that you're confident in how you speak,

[00:20:53] go to Toastmasters, do whatever you need to do to be able to really own whatever.

[00:20:59] Be the sneak, man.

[00:21:01] Be the sneak.

[00:21:02] Yeah.

[00:21:02] Woman.

[00:21:03] There you go.

[00:21:05] Well, that hits so close to home for me because I just reflect back as I was growing into a leadership

[00:21:13] role, especially in corporate recruiting, the bigger size of the company I got, the more like

[00:21:17] nervous I would get.

[00:21:19] Um, and the more, you know, high powered men there were at the company that you seemingly

[00:21:25] should be intimidated by.

[00:21:28] And I was the one that was like creating all these dashboards and these reports or like living

[00:21:33] in the data all the time, because it was the one thing that helped me feel confident

[00:21:37] and keep the emotion out of the conversations.

[00:21:40] When I'd go into these meetings, I would.

[00:21:43] You always bring the emotion into it, right?

[00:21:45] Like I'm nervous or I don't feel like I'm confident in speaking about anecdotally.

[00:21:51] I believe this or that about your hiring managers are awful or they're slowing down the process

[00:21:55] or whatever.

[00:21:56] But then I would reflect back, like, this is what the data is saying.

[00:21:59] And so if I can just go in with the data, you can't argue with black or white.

[00:22:03] Um, and so it helped me kind of get more confident.

[00:22:07] Yeah.

[00:22:08] Um, so I love that.

[00:22:10] And you just, yeah.

[00:22:13] I mean, right.

[00:22:15] Like anchor on the facts, do the facts.

[00:22:17] Anchor to the facts.

[00:22:18] Exactly.

[00:22:20] Well, we adore you.

[00:22:21] We need to get you more on stage with our community.

[00:22:26] Do more things.

[00:22:27] You're so fun.

[00:22:28] Um, also we plan to be at TA week in February, but hopefully we'll see you sooner than that

[00:22:34] in San Diego.

[00:22:35] Um, but with that, we so appreciate you coming on and spending some time with us and sharing

[00:22:41] your story.

[00:22:42] Um, you know, really the, the crux of why we do this is because we've met so many inspiring

[00:22:48] women that have become members of the community, but only those members get to hear each other's

[00:22:55] story.

[00:22:55] So we want to shout it to the rooftops.

[00:22:58] I love that elevation.

[00:23:00] You guys are doing it and you're doing it insanely well.

[00:23:03] And it's such, it's so beautiful to watch.

[00:23:05] So thank you for having me be part of today.

[00:23:07] I appreciate it.

[00:23:09] Thank you everybody for tuning in until next week.

[00:23:11] Um, be sure to like, share, subscribe all the things we're on all the channels and we'll

[00:23:16] see you next time.

[00:23:19] Thanks everyone.