Career-Minded with Stephanie Lyman - HigherHer Ep 20

[00:00:05] Welcome to the HigherHer Podcast by Talent Collective, presenting conversations with inspiring women in talent. And get ready ladies, because this is the last time you're going to hear a man's voice on this show. Hi everyone, welcome to today's episode of the HigherHer Podcast put on by Talent Collective. If you don't know what Talent Collective is, we are a community for women in the recruiting space.

[00:00:32] And we are really excited to be here on my couch again here in Alameda, California. And we have a really, really special guest here today with us. Her name is Stephanie Lyman. So welcome Stephanie. Hi, thank you. So Stephanie has a very extensive background in TA and has been head of talent at several companies. And in recent years, she's been running her own business. So she's had a coaching business for over eight years.

[00:01:02] And most recently has started her own firm again called Vault. And she helps companies, a lot of startups and other technology firms with employee engagement, leadership development, and really the whole like talent management pipeline. So we're really excited to get to know her a bit today. So welcome again. Thank you. We'd love to hear from you. Tell us all about yourself and your journey in recruiting and talent.

[00:01:32] Yeah, perfect. Well, first of all, thanks for having me here. I'm super excited and honored to be part of this podcast. A little bit about me, like you said, I started the first half of my career in talent acquisition. So started as a recruiter, like you said, moved on to head of talent at a fast growing startup, which is now a unicorn startup. So, you know, it was kind of one of those experiences of just being thrown into it and scaling.

[00:02:00] And it was just a fantastic experience on the sense of really learning what it takes in talent acquisition there to grow and to scale. And from there, it really opened up my eyes. I think it's like at a lot of different startups where you can wear multiple, multiple hats, right?

[00:02:22] You're doing all the things. And there is where it opened my eyes into mentoring and coaching and really brought out and piqued my interest in learning and development.

[00:02:34] And so from there, that's where I left to get my coaching certification and was able to pivot my career into learning and development, like you said, and was able to build out the learning and development function at a startup as well as get that experience at a Fortune 500 company as well. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah. Very nice. And then what are you doing nowadays?

[00:02:58] Yeah. So now I am taking that, like you said, I started my company with Vault Leaders and am, oh, no. You're making nervous? Yeah. I am nervous. So I started my company with Vault Leaders and really it has evolved.

[00:03:21] So I'd love to, you know, we can talk a little bit more about that going from that talent acquisition space and recruiting and evolving into coaching individuals and leaders and then evolving into working with these organizations and really seeing that full life cycle from talent acquisition, partnering with TA professionals there to then how can we retain and engage talent? And so really partnering with organizations there.

[00:03:51] Very nice. How have you liked having your own business and kind of going out and doing it on your own now? I love it. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely some challenges. You know, I do miss, which is what I think I love about the Talent Collective, is there's a part where I miss community.

[00:04:08] I miss sometimes that teamwork, but I do love the aspect of being able to just see that transformation and that change that can happen through coaching, especially through the individual coaching there, or just seeing kind of the development of managers. Let's say if you have a first time manager and just seeing that impact that you can have in an organization.

[00:04:35] So I love it. And I miss some parts of it, the community for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. There's only so much kind of like teamwork, you know, that happens when you're consulting because you're not like truly in it. But of course, you're still collaborating and helping and contributing. Well, we'd love to go into asking you to be a bit vulnerable with us.

[00:05:00] So, you know, we we really like to kind of hit on just a little like more human elements in this podcast and realize that we all experience challenges in our lives, both personally and professionally. So hoping you'd be willing to share a challenge that you've had either personally or professionally. So tell us about that and, you know, how you overcame it, any lessons learned.

[00:05:27] Definitely. Yeah. First part of this podcast. No, I'm joking. Yeah. You're doing great. You know, definitely. I would say back to, you know, that company where I was head of talent and it was probably one of the most rewarding and pivotal moments of my career and experiences. And it was also one of the most challenging. You know, like I said, I was wearing multiple hats and I felt like I was doing all the things.

[00:05:59] And, you know, I took on a lot and almost too much, meaning I was a first time manager. I was first time in a leadership position. I felt like I had to, you know, know all the answers and do everything correctly. And I remember I was like indecisive and not making quite the right decisions. I had a hard time delegating and letting go so I could focus on more of the strategic work.

[00:06:29] Honestly, I feel like I was a like a classic textbook example of exactly what you're not supposed to do when you're in that either like high pressure environment or, you know, or that first time manager role. And so, you know, while I was very successful in the role and I was very successful in the company, it was at the detriment to my health.

[00:06:57] And yeah, I just remember just my, you know, and maybe even my sanity. But it really, you know, it's like that scaling and that high pressure environment and not putting myself first. So I ended up leaving to take care of myself. I was burnt out, you know, dealing, you know, burnout is real, you know, and the effects that it can have on. And I noticed a lot on my body and that it can have.

[00:07:22] And so really then, I mean, gosh, and you're saying like, what did you learn from that? It's like once I was able to take a step back and learn, you know, I went and got my coaching certification after that.

[00:07:36] And I was able to learn the tools and the resources of how to, in a sense, bring my best self to work and really reflect on, okay, who do I want to be as a leader as I'm continuing to grow my career? Because what I was doing while it was successful, quote, it was not completely successful on, you know, how I wanted to show up as a leader.

[00:08:03] So, you know, I was able to learn, yes, like the tactical side of things, like, okay, yes, I, you need to delegate, you need to take a step away, you have to get out of the weeds. But then there also was this other side of kind of more like the inner work where I was figuring out, like learning a little bit and taking a step back of how I was in a sense almost self-sabotaging myself, you know, like not having the confidence.

[00:08:33] To step away, you know, not really resourcing myself and being aware of my influence that I was having on myself, you know, with the internal stress and struggle and ruminating, plus my influence that I was having on others and on my team. So I just was, while I always say it was like the most exciting and rewarding aspect and part of my career.

[00:08:56] And it like, it was, you know, there was a huge pivot, but it also was a tough lesson, you know, you know, that I had to learn. And I'm grateful that I, you know, not to sound cheesy, you know, it does, but you know, it did take me on this journey of, you know, I want to be, you know, more conscious and aware as a leader.

[00:09:48] Mm-hmm. But when you're going through it, it's freaking hard. Yeah, it is. It is, definitely. Luckily, you can look back now and see some of those golden nuggets. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, for sure.

[00:10:03] I feel like I had a very similar situation and it was the catalyst where I decided, like, I don't think I ever want to work for a startup again, at least not at that stage, because that doesn't resonate with my values or how I want to show up for myself or for any, you know, other variety of reasons.

[00:10:21] So would you say that that essentially was the catalyst that really kick-started this business because you found an opportunity to help people or it started as your personal journey and then you just felt like, oh, I'm good at this. Yeah. How did it really end up dominoing? Both. Yeah. So I would say, yeah, no, definitely about the values and strengths there. Like, I can definitely relate to that.

[00:10:42] But with this, it really was the impetus that just did bring me along on this journey and my personal journey. But then also as I did learn the tools and resources and, you know, got my coaching certification and starting to like dive deeper into that work.

[00:11:04] And once I was able to take that step back and reflect, I just, so many of my clients are women in tech and I just see it. And part of it is if I, looking back, know that if I would have had a coach during that time to help me kind of mirror and take a step back and see and reflect and get, you know,

[00:11:28] and to also let me know that it's normal, this like scale, this scaling stage is normal and you can have tools to go through it. You know, a little more gracefully, I should say that I just feel so passionate of seeing others in that same situation that I was in and how I want to just give back and help and provide now the knowledge and the resources that I have.

[00:11:55] So, yes, it did help me and bring me along that journey. And I just kept on. And I say journey because I do think it is. It's all part of a path and a journey. And it always is, you know, this journey that I continue to go on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just like they say, everything happens for a reason. It's part of your journey to get there. And it's just, you know, a natural part for the course.

[00:12:23] But you can't see me. I've been talking like a – Hello. I am. I was going to ask, like, if you had any mentor along the way. Like you had mentioned, I wish maybe I had a coach. Yeah. But was there anyone, any female leader that you could champion through that process? Yeah. You know, I – another lesson is a great question.

[00:12:52] Another lesson for myself would be to reach out and ask for help. Yes. You know, I did have and still do and talk to this day like a mentor on the talent acquisition side. Fantastic. Fantastic. Yeah. She's – shout out to you, Kelly, if you ever see this. You know, it was fantastic and, you know, was always there for you. You know, I would call her as I was scaling, you know, going through, trying to figure out,

[00:13:22] okay, headcount planning. How do we plan for this? How do we do that? Yeah. Um, and would – she would always be there and help me. And I don't think I reached out enough on, um, just kind of a little bit more of, like, the vulnerable side of just how I was struggling and how to handle all of it. I think I could have reached out more. Yeah. Yeah. And gotten that support. An advocate for yourself. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yeah. It's hard when you're in the thick of it.

[00:13:51] You're like, I want to be confident and I can do it all myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not always that easy. Yeah, definitely. And I think it's just always learning or being aware, right, of slowing down. I feel like so often, at least in the startup space and in the tech space, we're just – it's so fast, right? And it's just go, go, go, go, go. And sometimes, you know, it's just that slowing down to really, like – I guess to speed up.

[00:14:21] I don't know if that sounds cliche, but it's just, like, that slowing down so you can be aware, even to be aware of, like, wow, I think I need, you know, some time. I think I need some help with this. I think, like, the best path forward is not thinking that, you know, I can figure this out on my own. I can do this on my own. I can do this, you know, and it's relying on other people. But, you know, first being – at least for myself, I should say, first being aware, really,

[00:14:48] like, pausing and just noticing where I'm at and choosing a different path. And a different path would have been, you know, to reach out to my mentor, you know, to ask for that help there. And it probably plays such a huge role in how you run your business now. Differently, like, oh, I don't want to do things like I used to. So in my own business, I'm going to do it differently. Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely.

[00:15:12] I think in my own business, I, you know, I, first of all, will, you know, have worked a lot on, you know, when I'm working – well, first of all, when I'm working with individuals, really focusing on, you mentioned, their values and their strengths so they can bring that into the workplace. And then for myself as well. You know, looking at companies that – where I feel aligned with them and, you know, their mission and their values.

[00:15:37] But also, I'm not like a go, go, go, go, go, grind into the night, you know, type of a person with my business and I'm still able to get in there and look at, you know, the overall – I don't want to say problems, but I'm going to say problems – of a company and really helping and figuring out this employee engagement and – or retention and looking at burnout.

[00:16:05] So it's like kind of this bigger picture as I am bringing in maybe leadership development. It's, you know, yes, we can learn like, okay, what are the competencies of a leader? You know, but – and there – I believe there's just so much more to it than some of that tactical work there. Yeah. And that's how I definitely approach things differently from there, for sure. Love it. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, of course.

[00:16:33] So you've shared a lot about what you're currently doing with your company. And we'd love to hear if you have any future plans for the direction you'd like to go or just what's on the horizon. Yeah, for sure. Sure. So I want to – I will definitely continue to work with organizations. You know, it's a part that I, you know, I love going in there and really working on,

[00:17:01] in a sense, transformation at scale, you know, instead of the individual. So really trying to build that transformation there. So to continue to work with and partner with organizations for, again, like you mentioned earlier, like leadership development, retention, employee engagement. And then another part that I'm really, really excited about is in Q1 of next year. I can't believe we're already getting there. But of Q1 of next year, I want to introduce a conscious leadership accelerator.

[00:17:30] You know, it's been just so – as you guys have heard – just so pivotal in myself and bringing that work with my clients that I want to have more of an impact with that work. And I mentioned earlier, you know, like it is a path and it is a journey. So I'm hoping for like, you know, more community-based there because I am finding with this work

[00:17:56] that there's a difference between really like reading about something. Yeah. And then doing it and practicing and living it. And I have also found this might be a bold statement, but that as you're living and practicing, this work is best done in community. And so I really want to bring that work into community. So I'm looking to introduce that beginning of next year. So Q1, very excited.

[00:18:26] And then a vision or a dream. So I don't have or know when I want to do it. But that's another part that I'm really excited about is I want to host, launch a leadership retweet – retweet? Retreat for – yeah, for women. Really bringing in neuroscience, the mindfulness, breath work, and some of the leadership principles and again just build that community there.

[00:18:56] Well, tell Natalie and I when that is because we would love to be there. Yeah. I'm curious about the Conscious Leadership Accelerator. So your idea – correct me if I'm wrong – but is it sort of bringing together almost like a cohort of women or just leaders in general and have them go through it together? Is that – Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah. So there would be like modules of teaching, right, just to understand some of the work of

[00:19:23] neuroscience and how do you resource yourself when you are in that like stressful situation? Let's say you're with a hiring manager. You know, things are just crazy and it's really, really stressful. So giving you the tools there and then going, like you said, cohort-based and really doing that work in community and live calls. Yeah. Yeah. Exciting. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, of course. So it sounds like you're looking to make a big impact on women in leadership.

[00:19:51] Do you have many clients or what would be the balance of clients that are men versus women? You know, the majority of the clients that I work with are women. Okay. Yeah. I would say almost most who come to me are women. When I'm – the reason I hesitate a little bit there is when I'm in an organization or working in an organization, you know, I'll work – I work with any of the leaders. But a lot of times outside of it, it generally is women. Okay. Yeah.

[00:20:20] And what are like some general themes that you're hearing from specifically the women in terms of like leadership challenges they're experiencing or how things are different for them versus men? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and kind of, you know, starting to think about some of the challenges that I'm seeing are, you know, and I can just see myself in some of it of like of that, again,

[00:20:45] that taking that to that scaling aspect and really like letting go and perfectionism comes up a lot there as well. Um, but what I've seen like the difference, I would say, from the men and women, and while this is not – I just want to preface by saying it's not universal. Um, you know, I do think that society and expectations do shape a little bit of how women like approach leadership, um, you know, different than men, but I wouldn't say it's universal.

[00:21:15] But a lot of times, um, which I think can be an advantage is I, you know, see more, you know, women who are more – they're more collaborative in their leadership style there, which then I'm seeing, you know, it does – there can be some hangups there, but really the advantage of it is, um, just more of an inclusive team, like really fostering a sense of belonging as well, which I think is just so imperative, um, you know, as you are growing as a leader there.

[00:21:43] Um, and then also, you know, there has been some research that, um, a lot of times women, I don't know if the right word is score better, but – or just – they have higher emotional intelligence as well. And, um – sorry, man. Um, but, um, but that, um, and really that can just show up as, like, empathy and just bring

[00:22:07] that empathy and, um, into the workplace and into your leadership style, um, you know, can have just so many advantages there as well. You know, but one thing I – you know, as I'm saying this and as I'm saying this out loud, one thing that I – you know, I always like to work with my clients on, though, is, like, yes, there are these, like, themes, right, for women leaders.

[00:22:30] And, um, so often, you know, what I'll work with, um, these women on is just finding your unique strengths, your unique values, so that you can then approach leadership, um, you know, as an authentic leader, you know, as yourself. So you're true to yourself and to your core. And there might be some parts that, you know, generally are universally – universally a little bit more, um, masculine or this or that, but it's just really working with, um,

[00:23:01] working with these, uh, leaders to find their own authentic leadership style. Yeah. And that's just something I'm really passionate about there. I think I need your assistance. But on the reverse, like, I often feel like I want to be more aggressive than I come across. Like, inside, I just want to, like, cut you to the chase and I don't want to have to, like, dance around things or be delicate, but I feel this internal struggle as a woman.

[00:23:27] Like, no, I should probably come at it a little bit more delicate, stay in my feminine energy, all the things. And it just, like, is always a struggle for me because I feel like I'm wasting time or, like, it just doesn't resonate with me. And so I'm curious if you have any women that you work with that are kind of in this more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I mean, I think, yes. I mean, almost I want to say, like, yes, myself. No, I'm just kidding. But yes, no.

[00:23:57] Um, definitely. And I think, um, like you mentioned, like, what you want to, like, just get, speak up more? Is it kind of like that? Or? I think I speak up. Okay. Confidently. But I, um, what's the word? I struggle with the, the niceness of it. Like, this is why Kristen and I work so well together. As I always joke, she's the nice one. Ah, okay.

[00:24:22] And, um, not that I feel like I'm mean, but I don't have the same type of patience to be kind. Um, I can handle it up to a point, but then I'm like, I'm just done. And I don't want to deal with it anymore. Um, so anyways. Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. No, that makes sense. And, you know, it makes me think about, um, sometimes that can be like you said, it's

[00:24:49] just like an impulse or you just want to be done and you just want to do this and like kind of starting to look at and think about and inquire into like, when is that reactivity or that reaction just doing more harm than good? Um, and, you know, reflecting on that. And, and honestly, it starts to become, to become more aware, um, you know, pausing. And it sounds like you do notice, but whether or not, if you notice in the thick of it, um, and then like, again, choosing that different path, but yeah, we definitely, you know,

[00:25:18] there's, there's the, I don't speak up enough. I see that a lot with the women. I see that side. I'm not confident enough. Women, I read my email 10 million times before I hit send. I do all of this versus, yeah, I, I am like quick, quick and sharp and this, and, you know, and there's no right or wrong. It's just starting to look at, I think starting to look at, again, when is it doing more harm than good? And, or like, where do you want to be, right? Yeah. And who do you want to show, how do you want to show up as a leader?

[00:25:48] Yeah. Who do you want to be? Some people don't care about, you know, sharp and direct, but anyways, not to make this a coaching session. Yeah, I was going to say, I just turned into a little coaching session. Um, I love it. I love it. Well, is there, you know, anything else that you want to share with the audience? Like, you know, ways that you could be of assistance to them? How can you best support companies? Where can they find you? Yeah. No, awesome. Well, first of all, thanks again for having me. This was like, this was great. Uh, it was fun.

[00:26:16] It was, um, quick, short to the point. Quick, short to the point there. Um, yeah, I, you know, I'd say the best way to connect with me is on LinkedIn. Um, yeah, connect with me on there. Feel free to message me, reach out to me. Any, you know, that's probably the best way. And, um, I'll stay in touch with Talent Collective too. If you're interested in hearing more about, um, this Conscious Leadership Accelerator, when

[00:26:42] I do introduce that, um, you know, maybe I'll even work with y'all to put out a wait list or something because it's not announced yet or the dates and, um, but we can put something together there. Yeah. That'd be great. Yeah. Well, in the meantime, we'll be sure to feature you in our partner marketplace. And so people can find you and, you know, have time with you. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you everybody for tuning in until next time. We're going to have a little bit of a holiday break. As you can see the Christmas lights here.

[00:27:11] Um, but in the meantime, uh, stay tuned, follow all of our channels, um, iTunes, Spotify, Apple music, all the things, um, and like, and subscribe. And we'll see you next time. Thanks everybody. Bye. Bye.