Redefining Financial Wellness: The Acquisition Shaping DEI and Employee Wellbeing

[00:00:00] Part of why I started this was because I wanted to build what I wish I had when I was navigating corporate America. I had worked at big companies, small companies, and I saw that pretty much across the board they struggled to support employees of color. It's not so long ago that employee resources were rare. Employee resource groups were fairly rare.

[00:00:27] Right. But what I saw and what I experienced was that even if you achieve pay equity, even if you pay two employees the same, and one is of color and one is not, right, there's likely to be a big difference in how much salary a black or brown or Asian employee can keep because of things like maybe being the first in their family to get a solid job, right? We know the data is clear here on Student.

[00:00:58] Hey, this is William Tincup and Ryan Leary. You are listening and hopefully watching the You Should Know podcast. We've got Liz and Yimmy on today. We're going to be talking about the acquisition of color of financial finesse. So financial finesse actually acquired Yimmy's company, and we're going to be talking about the acquisition. Pretty simple stuff. Easy. Perfect. When I say simple, absolutely complex. Oh, complex. So Ryan, how are you doing?

[00:01:28] I'm great. First off, congratulations. 100%. Across the board. Thank you. Thank you. Never an easy thing, but always exciting for sure. People don't understand how much it takes to acquire a company. It's not an easy process, and it's a lot of lawyers, a lot of paperwork, a lot of stuff that has to be done. No one wants to see how the sausage is made on that deal. Definitely helps when you have a relationship previously, as Liz and I do. 100%.

[00:01:56] And when you're very comfortable with where you both stand on a lot of issues. So it makes it a lot smoother, but yes, very complex. Well, while we do this. Yeah, at that point, we were invested in Of Color. We have a venture arm. So we were investors, and we're working with them also to incubate and support them and integrate them into our client base. And so it made it a lot easier, I think, to do this effectively.

[00:02:24] Because, yeah, we knew each other really well and had a very strong working relationship. Good. Well, let's do introductions. Yemi, do us a favor. Introduce yourself. Sure. Give some context for folks. Yemi Rose, like I said, the easy way to remember it is Yemi. Like you're celebrating yourself. Well, I guess quick background on me.

[00:02:45] I worked, you know, at a senior role at BlackRock and left it and took a position a few levels down in order to learn as much as I could about financial wellness. Prudential Financial at the time was working on some really interesting stuff. They had a really large data set that they gave me the opportunity to work with. And then I jumped at the chance, produced some really good work there, the financial wellness census, the cut.

[00:03:13] When I left, I was VP of financial wellness enterprise initiatives. The back story now is I kind of had a shift towards purpose in my life, and I really, really wanted to lean into this work. Had always been really obsessed with racial wealth gap, done a lot of writing and publishing. I left Prudential in November 2019, but stayed on until smack in the beginning of the pandemic, right? It's scary.

[00:03:38] But put my head down, kind of focused on what the end goal was, like the racial wealth gap was with North Star and got to work. You know, ultimately set out to build a comprehensive financial wellness solution designed to help people of color improve their financial lives. And, you know, that's our mission. And everything we do is driven by that mission. And now we get to add the firepower and resources of the financial finance center team and really, really amplify this work. Love it. Love it.

[00:04:07] Liz, would you do us a similar favor and introduce yourself? Yeah. Liz Davidson, founder and CEO of Financial Finesse. And started the company back in 1999. So dating myself a lot. You know, my background came from the asset management world. So I ran a hedge fund and we had independently managed accounts. And great business, great business to be in.

[00:04:36] But helping wealthy people become wealthier was not fulfilling, you know, just kind of that larger life purpose. I think both Amy and I probably had those moments where it's like, why am I here? What am I meant to do? You know, how do I make the most of what I can give the world?

[00:04:56] And, you know, that turned into really a quest on how do we help people that don't have a huge amount of investable assets build them, right? And at that point in time, in 99, you know, the financial services industry was very, very much focused on the very affluent.

[00:05:21] And pretty much everyone else was either left behind or, you know, in some cases, subject to very high expensive fees on different, you know, insurance policies, annuities, etc. And really wasn't wasn't being given the the unbiased guidance they needed to make good financial decisions. So left the hedge fund industry, started Financial Finesse.

[00:05:46] Today, we are the largest independent provider of workplace financial coaching in the U.S. And recently acquired the Of Color business and are thrilled to have the enhanced capabilities that Of Color brings. That's wonderful. So, Liz, let's talk about that a little bit. So, I mean, I think it's obvious why the acquisition happened. But let's let's talk about that. What what drove the acquisition? How does this align with Financial Finesse?

[00:06:15] Yeah, I think, you know, what we have discovered just over time and this is such a simple statement, but I think it's it's often forgotten is people's favorite topic. When you are consuming financial education, it's not annuities. It's not the 401k plan. It's not asset allocation. It's themselves. Right. We all want a better life for ourselves and our families. Right.

[00:06:43] And the way to really get the best results for people is to personalize the experience as much as possible and really recognize that, you know, your workforce or workforces are extremely diverse in all ways. Right. Right.

[00:07:04] And of color services are, you know, exceptional at helping employees of color based on really culturally nuanced content and coaching, helping reach employees of color in a way they feel heard, understood, feel that sense of trust and community and, you know, take action as a result. So it's an incredibly important population.

[00:07:31] It's, you know, a population that tends to suffer from disproportionate financial stress. And it's a population that we've long been servicing, but we felt like we could do better here with better together than, you know, simply holding up color as an investment in our venture portfolio. Yeah. I mean, what did you see as you started? Because, I mean, leaving BlackRock couldn't be easy.

[00:08:01] Leaving Prudential couldn't have been easy. Starting a company couldn't have been easy. So you did a bunch of stuff that was hard, but what did you see when you first got into it as the differences in, let's say, financial literacy? Yeah. You know, between, you've obviously studied, you know, you're well-traveled, all that stuff, so you've seen a lot of different things. But what did you see in the of color audience that was really different, really not taken care of?

[00:08:31] Yeah, so it's a great question. I mean, part of why I started this was because I wanted to build what I wish I had when I was navigating corporate America, right? I've worked at big companies, small companies. And I saw that pretty much across the board, they struggled to support employees of color. I mean, it's not so long ago that employee resources were rare, right?

[00:08:59] Employee resource groups were fairly rare. Right. But what I saw and what I experienced was that even if you achieve pay equity, even if you pay two employees the same, and one is of color and one is not, right? There's likely to be a big difference in how much salary a black or brown or Asian employee can keep because of things like maybe being the first in their family to get a solid job, right? We know the data is clear here on student loans, right? Folks of color tend to take out larger student loans, and those student loans tend to be really durable.

[00:09:28] Up to 20 years later, they're still paying them back. You know, if you're the first in a family to get this good job, you may feel a certain responsibility to take care of others in your family that may not have been as lucky. We know in the Asian American community, there's a big emphasis on ensuring that you take care of your parents' retirement as well. Right. Right? So there are a lot of cultural nuances. There are a lot of pulls on your money, on capital.

[00:09:54] There's a really unique, what we call the minority money experience, that folks go through that. Frankly, a lot of coaches, advisors may not be as attuned to as they probably should be. And that really does impact that experience. So you want to make sure, you know, and Liz touched on this as well, you want to make sure that you're, you know, it's a little bit of a cliche in that which you're meeting folks where they are,

[00:10:17] and you're appreciative of all the different levels of intersectionality that put them in a position to take action in regard to their money. I've said this for years about HR practitioners, that it's hard for them to raise their hand and say they don't know something. It's very difficult because everyone looks to them to know everything. They're in the, you know, they know stuff business.

[00:10:42] And so like at conferences and everything, I usually I'll start off by you came to the session for a reason. You've got some questions. Let's go. Let's just get them out there. Well, I'll get to the presentation, but let's go. It's okay. We're in a safe environment. I can see that. I can see that with the community that you serve where they might, there might be reticence like to ask questions.

[00:11:09] Like maybe it's assumptive that they already know these things about how their credit rating impacts whatever else. Like they might not know the relationship between certain things and they might not want to ask questions or they might not ask questions because they don't want to the perception of like, I don't know that. I should probably, I'm 40 years old. I should probably know that. Yeah. It's very personal, right?

[00:11:32] All with all things around money impacted by, geez, you know, your upbringing, the community that you're raised in. And very often folks feel embarrassed. They feel alone in their struggles. And even just the act of showing folks that they're not alone and they're part of a larger community. And I'm talking about whether it's the community of employees that have this year's struggle or even HR practitioners. Right. And, you know, it can be very, very helpful in getting people to take that first step.

[00:12:03] Yeah. We've had, this is a timely conversation for us as well because we've had a number of these conversations where from a retirement, planning for retirement and, you know, growing up in a certain era where your parents said, go to college, graduate college, get a job, put into the 401k.

[00:12:25] And then yesterday, we were having a conversation where, I mean, we kind of knew this, but she really went deep into it where it was the 401k wasn't built for the average American. Right. It was built for the wealthy to get wealthier. And here. She said it in a nicer way. In a nicer way. Yeah. But essentially, that's what it said. And here our parents, right, are saying, get a job, get out of college, get a job, start putting in, putting in, putting in.

[00:12:54] And it was bad advice. And that bad advice has continued for decades on end. And so my question here is, how do we bring people out of that bad information? I think I called into Susie Orman or something or other. You did call her. I did. How do we bring people out of that era and into real, meaningful, impactful knowledge and training?

[00:13:25] Liz, why don't you take that one? Yeah. So I'm curious because I think I know why you're saying it was bad advice. But is the concept that it's easier said than done, right? That's it. Take this amount out of your paycheck. And yes, we all know it's pre-tax. It's tax deferred. Like, this vehicle is constructed in a favorable way, right? 100%.

[00:13:49] However, it's so, yes, this is something that thankfully I feel. Like, the market has shifted a lot on. Which it used to be. We do these enrollment meetings. And this was, you know, back in the day. Oh, no. And those participants didn't enroll. It was pre-auto-enrollment and auto-escalation. I'm talking about this. And you would have this irritation about it. And it's like, well, it's money out of their paycheck. That's right.

[00:14:17] And they're probably struggling to make ends meet. And they're not. Correct. You're not providing them with the guidance around these fundamental issues. And especially at lower income levels, you know, okay, cut your expenses. All right. Well, what am I going to cut when I already feel like I'm, you know, so tight, right?

[00:14:38] I can, you know, just, it is a, I think, you know, often can come off almost offensively, right, to be talking about these issues. Right. When you may be talking to people that, you know, they wish they had the ability to. And now we are auto-enrolling and auto-escalating. And we're seeing more retirement plan loans because they don't have the ability to afford it.

[00:15:06] So it's starting with, like to Yemi's point, meeting them where they're at and helping work on those foundational issues. And one thing I would say to all HR practitioners is you may have employee benefits these people don't know about that if they were able to take advantage of could make a meaningful difference

[00:15:28] in slack in their budget that then would allow them to even be able to afford to save for retirement. And that's after they deal with debt issues and establishing emergency fund and all the foundations. So, yeah, I will stop. Yeah. And you bring up an interesting point because part of that conversation where it led to is

[00:15:55] the question of is HR responsible for their employees' financial wellness? What hand should they play into that? And, Liz, you make a good point here. And, Yemi, you said it earlier. People feel responsible to do certain things based on culture and, you know, upbringing and, you know, if you're an immigrant versus not and so on and so forth. And, Liz, when you say, you know, if you would have done this, it would make a big difference

[00:16:25] 20 years from now, 30 years from now. But they're not getting that guidance, right? They're not getting that one little piece of guidance, that coaching to get them to that level that could make a huge difference in someone's life. And that's kind of where that conversation led to, which is always interesting. So, Yemi, I loved your point on that. Yeah.

[00:16:49] I mean, look, you, at the most basic level, right, businesses, companies, it's really just a collection of people in contracts, right? We have agreements that we've made with each other. Folks are, you know, you're going to dedicate half of your waking life to the shared mission of the company. You're going to put everything in it. And in exchange, you're going to hopefully get the satisfaction of the work that you're doing, but you're also going to get some kind of financial reward, right?

[00:17:19] And so it makes sense for companies to want to ensure that their employees are stable and happy, right? They're more productive if they are. I think one of the things that people forget very often is that companies are really just collection people and contracts, right? You know, we agree to dedicate half of our waking life to the mission statement of the company. And in exchange, we get some kind of financial reward and hopefully the satisfaction of doing something that we love, right? Love it.

[00:17:48] Liz, the acquisition itself, do you see because you invested and you obviously have a clearly have a great relationship, is it turning on the sales or integrating it in a way and then going back out to your established customers already and saying, oh, by the way, you know, we have this other service and kind of turning it on like that? Yeah. Yes.

[00:18:13] So it's, the response has been incredibly positive. This is our first acquisition. Oh, well, congratulations on that. So, you know, it's, it's, it's the first time. And I have a strong feeling any subsequent acquisitions are going to pale by comparison in terms of a couple of things. The ease, right?

[00:18:39] Because Yemi and I had such a strong working relationship and our teams had such a strong working relationship and our clients were already integrating the of color services into the broad based programs we provide to all employees as an employee benefit. It just, there was so much glue already there. And so I think, you know, our client base felt delighted because we're deploying all the content

[00:19:07] to all our clients. We have 20,000 companies that use financial finesse. All the of color content is being provided. And this is the content, not the coaching free of charge as part of their existing contracts. So they're delighted with that. But, and then, you know, new opportunities are emerging because I think people just see the, that this is an amplification of our existing platform and program, you know, that is going

[00:19:37] to allow us to move the needle in a bigger way among especially, you know, financially stressed employees. It is, so yeah, it's been, it's been great. Now it's the honeymoon period. This was what we're, how far in Yemi, week three, week four? Yeah, no, we are, we are four weeks in, I believe. Four weeks. Okay.

[00:20:02] So where, so where do we go in, in 25, as we move into 25 and 26, where do we grow from here? So, so we're bringing both companies together. Your clients are already using both, right? You have a massive client base. How do we grow from here? What can they expect? Yeah, I think what you're going to see, I mean, we, even prior to even investing in of

[00:20:28] color, had a very strong practice in terms of really helping financially stressed employees, then working with employee resource groups to help employees, you know, of color and, and really partner with them to create content and curriculum was culturally relevant. And I think this just is going to amplify our abilities to do this at, you know, at scale, right?

[00:20:54] And drive, reach more people more deeply and drive better results. You know, we have the ability to measure, you know, hundreds of different actions people are taking through the aggregated data on our online platforms. So already, you know, we've seen what our existing efforts have done, but the ability to look at these programs and say, okay, where do people start?

[00:21:23] Then they go through coaching, education. Where do they finish? And I think we're just going to see, you know, continually stronger results and be able to evolve our personalization and our AI capabilities to deliver, you know, much more relevant content to people, you know, on all levels. Quick question.

[00:21:49] I know you've probably answered this for me before, but you're selling into both HR, finance and benefits, right? The typical buyer is the head of benefits. Got it. However, you know, every company is a bit different. Sometimes it's a CHRO. Sometimes it's, you know, HR director. The CFO is sometimes involved. It just depends on the structure of the company.

[00:22:17] And is that, and you'll play market-wise above 5,000 employees or where in the market do you play? Now, we have a custom business where we're developing these programs in a very customized way and fully integrating all the employer's benefits, as Yami mentioned. That is primarily Fortune 1000. Right.

[00:22:39] However, we also have a business where we work through benefits brokers, record keepers, asset managers to attach to their products and services. And that's where we're able to reach, you know, tens of thousands of organizations. Those are not custom programs. We wouldn't be able to do that scalably. But the same content and all the of-color content, you know, is a part of that now.

[00:23:08] Last question or real quick, Liz. Any verticalization for y'all right now? Have you found yourself like in consumer packaged goods or in like any industries? Is there anything kind of in the data where you're like, you know, this industry really cares about financial wellness more than another industry per se? Ah, you know, it's we get that question all the time.

[00:23:32] And I think, honestly, the most common thing, it's more of a psychographic because we're very broad. You know, we're tech, healthcare, consulting, manufacturing, very, very broad. It is companies that really, really pride themselves on their employee brand. Most of our clients are household names. And so I think they really recognize that what happens internally in the walls of their

[00:23:58] company increasingly influences their external brand. I mean, really, if you look at our client list, I mean, you're dealing with some of them on almost an hourly basis and, you know, weekly for sure. And so and daily for many of them. So I think that's really the biggest common denominator.

[00:24:24] You know, it really, you know, to Yami's point, I think it's also companies that are quite innovative and really recognize because, you know, we've heard, is it is it the employer's responsibility to do this? And I actually would say at this point, since employees, we don't live in a DB world anymore. It kind of is, you know, I wouldn't have said that as we were going through the transition.

[00:24:53] But at this point, it's really employees have to fund their health care and retirement at a level that I think it is. But even if you don't agree with that, the reality is for everyone, your company is your best financial services partner. It's where you make your income or the bulk of your income, if not all of it. And it's the benefits. So this is the place where the money comes from.

[00:25:19] And again, it's we've seen the uptick in the recent years, as y'all have, from health to financial wellness and during COVID, obviously mental health, et cetera. And the brands that care that they have that more and they can be B2B companies, but they have the mindset of our brand means something. We've seen those folks. It's they're an extension. They're they're an extension. They're going to go out and talk to people at gatherings and whatnot.

[00:25:49] This is going to be not a difficult question, but more of a deeply personal question. Ryan and I do a new show on Sundays. Anyways, that's not the difficult question part. The in the last probably three or nine or six months, we've seen a lot of corporations distance themselves from DEI. They tear down their programs, quite frankly. The tractor supply, Harley Davidson, most recently Boeing last week.

[00:26:19] They just dismantled everything in DEI. And so for us, it's disheartening because we see us taking our step back in time, not a step forward. Do you, does, does that impact y'all at all with that happening? I don't know if it's a phase or if it's something that we're going to, or we're going to wake up and hopefully that goes back to normal. Does that impact y'all and your customer or the way that you interact with your customers in any way?

[00:26:48] Yeah, I, you know, it, I think we felt in this environment, this becomes more important. The work becomes more important. Here's the deal. You don't have to call it DEI. You can call it helping people that need help in a way that is relevant and personalized and deeply connects with them.

[00:27:13] I mean, it's not, you know, we do across the board, we do targeted education for pre-retirees because they have generally similar issues and are going through that phase of life together. And there's a sense of community and safety by having sessions for them, right? The same thing applies for people of color. It's not, and, and when you look at the stats, it's just, it's just the stats.

[00:27:42] It's the reality of the situation. They are disproportionately financially stressed by virtue of having lower incomes. It is what it is. So you want to tackle the problem of financial stress. You cannot ignore employees of color. I would also say you could not ignore women. And the way to reach people is to acknowledge where they come from, who they are, what they

[00:28:08] need, hear them and connect with them. So I think it's more important. And I think, you know, if you're a company that, you know, is challenged by the term DEI and okay, we'll look at it as simply helping your employees in a much more personalized, effective way. Amy, I'd love to get your thoughts here. Yeah, no, I think you, you nailed it, right? It's, it's personalization, right?

[00:28:35] As, especially as I said, we've become a melting pot of intersectionality. I mean, personally, I walk in every room as a black man, right? Race is a big part of my existence, but it is not the only part of my existence. Right. I bring a lens of an immigrant, right? I came to this country from Jamaica. I bring the lens of a man, right? And driving action, especially financial action, financial education, we know it's complex.

[00:29:02] We know the importance of getting the right information to the right people when they're most open to receiving it, right? And I think the more we can tap into to show an understanding of the lens that people are looking at the information we're putting in front of them through, the more open they will be to receiving it, the more open they will be to taking action on it, the more trusting they will be of it. So it's extremely important not to ignore the big rocks in people's lives, the big important

[00:29:30] factors or things that make them who they are. And I think this is a huge, huge part of why we're doing this. I think final question for me, Yemi, maybe since you just mentioned it, maybe I'll throw this one to you. Sure. What are the triggers that allow people to be more open or receptive to this advice? Great question. Yeah. So, you know, you touched on one earlier, right? Shame is a big part of it, right?

[00:29:59] Being able to say, hey, I'm not where I thought I would be in my financial life. I am 50 and I'm just starting to save for retirement. And I think you get people to open up when you show an understanding of where they've been, when you understand their lived experiences. Because, you know, a lot of the folks that are working with employees, they have been in the same spot as these employees. And I think sharing that experience, you know, helps to open up.

[00:30:28] And very often, even a coach or an advisor will share a personal experience that they've gone through and help to have that person feel more seen and more comfortable. And then you develop a real relationship and one that can really, really, really drive action. So let me, and I want both of y'all to answer this. So, Yemi, I'll start with you. In my mind, I'm a visual learner. So in my mind, I think of financial wellness somehow as levels.

[00:30:58] And maybe even spatially within levels. Like you have to get certain things done. And then you can ascend to then taking care of other things. So visually, I have it in my head. And again, tear all this apart. Because I'm not an expert. Clearly. But I have this in my mind that it's just like playing a game. And you're on level one and you complete level one. And it's like you go to level two and there's a series of things that you do in level two.

[00:31:28] And if true, like Liz said, it's just data. It's just looking at data and understanding that data of where they are. So am I right? Or am I on the right track-ish? I think you're right, right? I think the first step for folks is just taking a dispassionate view of where they are in their financial lives, right? Looking at it. Taking a 360 view. This is where I am in my life. And owning that and saying, okay, now what is the plan of action?

[00:31:58] Is that an inventory or an audit of themselves? It may be. And different coaches, different advisors have different tools and ways that they do this. But the bottom line is they're trying to say, okay, where are you right now? Where are the gaps? And look, especially with folks of color, the path to patch these gaps may not be traditional, right?

[00:32:22] You may have some debt, but you may – and a typical thing would be like, okay, get rid of all the high interest that you have. But you may not have any emergency savings. And we know that if your baby needs milk, the Amex card can wait, right? You need to take care of this. So it's figuring out where they are, where the gaps are, looking to fill those gaps, getting them very often, depending on where they are, settled in place. Now everyone is – I always say that people of color, we're not a monolith, right? So people are going to be at different levels.

[00:32:51] But for that individual, making sure that there's a solid foundation and then working to build on that foundation, right? And working to ensure that there's protection, making to ensure that they are not as financially fragile. You know, the existence of the racial wealth gap itself means that there's a fragility. And we see those numbers in the hardship withdrawals for retirement, for example, right? So you want to make sure they're not as fragile and that we are building.

[00:33:17] And then the final thing with that, and this is really important, is ensuring that the next generation, right? Because it's building a legacy. It's legacy building. If we want to really move the needle with this problem, it's not just a single generation thing. It's multiple generations. So you want to make sure that the next generation is on a better footing than you are. I don't know, Liz, do you have anything to add to that? Hit me.

[00:33:45] William, I think you're conceptualizing it as levels – you know, it's interesting because we have a virtual financial coach as part of our service, as part of our digital platform. And it's exactly how that works is, you know, there are key milestones that you need to achieve to go from, you know, crisis all the way to optimizing, which is when you're lucky enough that it's like, what do I do with all this money, right?

[00:34:13] And, you know, so I think that's a good way to conceptualize it. But I think the challenge is, again, how do you connect with people in a way where they do feel safe and ready to do what Yemi talked about, which is that 360. I mean, like, we can compare it a little bit to health. I had years where I didn't step on a scale. Right. I knew I was not going to like what that number was.

[00:34:42] It's going to send you into a shame spiral. Exactly. And I finally, you know, kind of just said, all right, I'm ready. And that was the beginning of the, you know, the journey of my own physical wellness. So, you know, that's a different area, but there's similar psychological challenges.

[00:35:02] And I think what we need to do both as practitioners, but, you know, as, you know, a financial coaching company is figure out how we can get people to feel safe and comfortable and even potentially a little excited to begin that journey. And once they start, if you do this right, they do continue. Oh, yeah.

[00:35:31] And it is a really amazing thing to see. Progress is not linear. It's two steps forward, one step back. Life happens. Right. But it's amazing to see what can happen to an individual, you know, who really gets invested in this process. What both of you all said through the podcast is it's personal. It's personalized. Each person has a kind of different situation.

[00:35:55] And having a coach explain, you know, if you've got five credit cards, they all have five different balances. How do you tack that? You know, and if you don't know, then you're paying all of them evenly. You're not trying to take one of them off the board. The differences between leasing a car and buying a car, you know, like all these things that pop out of the womb. Some people were educated. Some parents educated. Schools did not educate.

[00:36:24] I can tell you that for sure. So I think I love the coaching and meeting them where they are and just have, again, when they're ready to step on the scale financially, I think you meet them where they are. I love it. I love it. Last question for me is what's success of this acquisition? So you all know each other. You've done stuff. You're out at dinner at some point.

[00:36:51] And you're like, okay, we're going to look back at a certain point. We're going to say, how do we know that this was successful for both parties? So take it in any – Liz, why don't you go ahead and take it first? Yemi. I mean, for us, it's – we call it breadth and depth. So it's reaching a lot more people in a much more deep and meaningful way.

[00:37:16] So there's the reach part, you know, which is the number of people that are eligible for our services, the number of people that then use them. And then there's the depth. And, you know, we have all sorts of metrics around, you know, what changes are they taking, 30, 60, 90 days, one year out, and seeing the amplification of that.

[00:37:36] So seeing that if 30% on a certain metric are, you know, tackling their credit card debt, you know, and dramatically reducing or eliminating it within one to two years, having that go to 50. You know, it's – we have a whole list of metrics and then the goals on those metrics. And to me, that's why we're both doing this. Yemi? Yeah.

[00:38:04] For me, it is – so I agree with everything you've said. It's – and this probably captures a lot of it too. It's sustainable impact at scale, right? So the sustainable part of it is you've got to create shared value, right? The employee needs to see real value. The HR professionals need to see value there. And, of course, the business needs to see value too, right? It's sustainable. Impact, and Liz touched on this, right, is how many financial lives can you change, right? Are you really moving the needle?

[00:38:33] And then I think, you know, we're in this not just for, you know, onesie, twosies, right? We are in this for scale. We are in this in order to touch as many lives, to impact as many lives, to create as much shared value as possible. So that's always been kind of the North Star, right? It's sustainable. It's impact, and it's at scale. Drops mic. Yeah. Walks off stage. Amy, Liz. You all have been wonderful. Yeah, this is – congratulations. Yeah. Thank you.

[00:39:03] Again, on all of this. This is a very interesting topic, very well needed and timely for today. And it looks like you'll like each other, so it's all good. It helps. We'll check in in six months. 100%. Yeah, yeah. 100%. No, no, no. We'll see. No, no. Anyhow, thank you all so much for carving out time for us in the audience. You all have been wonderful. We know how crazy busy you are, but thanks for carving out time for us. ka. You all have Weil? We'll see you all next time for today.