What am I missing here?

[00:00:02] You're listening to The Well-led Podcast, where professionalism meets imperfection. I'm your host, Kate Johnson, owner of 123 Limited. Each month, alongside longer conversations and my own reflections, I make space for other voices, short contributions from multiple leaders, practitioners, and thinkers.

[00:00:25] I believe hearing a range of perspectives deepens how we understand what good leadership really looks like. And this month, we're exploring feedback. In this episode, you'll hear brief reflections from two contributors, each sharing their perspective on what typically prevents us from embracing feedback and ways of approaching feedback with confidence, what it looks like in practice, where it gets complicated, and why it matters.

[00:00:54] You'll hear each voice one at a time, different experiences, different perspectives, one shared focus on the leadership responsibility that is feedback. Hello, I'm Mary Tatenhorst, founder of Impact Talent Strategies, where I help organizations grow their people in ways that support their business growth.

[00:01:21] Through coaching, workshops, team development, and talent strategy, my work sets at the intersection of people development and business, really helping leaders strengthen teams, build confidence, and create clear paths forward for growth. One thing that I've seen time and time again is that growth doesn't just happen in these formal programs or training sessions that we have.

[00:01:48] While they can be a great platform for starting to build skills, growth happens in these everyday conversations, especially through feedback that we deliver and that we get for ourselves. And that's why I appreciate this topic so much. Feedback is one of the most practical ways that we can help people grow. It helps us strengthen trust, clarify expectations, and improve how we work better together.

[00:02:17] Yet even though most of us know feedback matters, both giving it and asking for it, it can still feel uncomfortable. So today, I really want to explore two questions that were posed. The first, what typically prevents us from providing feedback or asking for it? And secondly, what practices or mindsets can sometimes help us become bolder

[00:02:43] and more thoughtful and even more effective in those conversations? To begin, one of the biggest things that prevents us from giving feedback is fear. Fear of a lot of things. We fear hurting someone's feelings. We fear damaging the relationship or creating tension. And often that hesitation, it really comes from a good place. It's ultimately that we do care about people.

[00:03:12] But when we avoid feedback for the sake of kindness, we may actually be withholding clarity from someone that they really need to know this in order to be able to grow. And it really connects to the whole idea from Kim Scott's book, Radical Candor. Great book. Check it out. She talks about the importance of being both on the fact that you're caring personally and challenging directly.

[00:03:42] I love that balance because feedback shouldn't be harsh or careless or critical, yet it also should not be so softened that the real message gets lost inside of it. Care without challenge can become avoidance. And challenge without care can feel harsh. Yet when we bring both together,

[00:04:08] that feedback really becomes a really cool tool for growth to happen. And I've seen this show up in some of my client work. As an example, I worked with an executive leadership team. They had incredible expertise around the table. Their desire was really to be able to tap into that experience and that insight of leaders across all of these different functions. And really be able to share insight outside of their individual areas of responsibility.

[00:04:38] In my one-on-one interviews with each member of the team, this clear theme emerged. They all recognized the expertise that others brought. And they also recognized that sometimes there were places where they had valuable insight or valuable feedback and perspective based upon their own personal experience. But they were not having the conversations that they needed to.

[00:05:07] And it wasn't because they didn't care. And it wasn't because they didn't like expertise or experience. But this team, they were newly formed. They didn't want to come across as a know-it-all. They felt like they should stay in their own lanes. And when you think about that, there's so much missed opportunity and potential. The insight was there and the experience. And there was also even the shared desire. They wanted to help the business succeed and to move forward.

[00:05:36] But the trust and communication patterns really hadn't been set up and hadn't been earned yet through their experience together as a team. And that's where I often think about the work around team effectiveness, like the five behaviors of a cohesive team or five dysfunctions of a team, Patrick Lencioni's book. Trust is really the foundation for that.

[00:06:01] When trust is low or if it's still forming, feedback can feel really risky to us because people are wondering, you know, how is this going to be received? Will I overstep? Could this damage the relationship? But as that trust grows, feedback can really be seen and heard through a different lens. It becomes less about criticism and more about shared commitment.

[00:06:31] And then it starts to sound like, hey, we're all trying to get better together. Here's some insights that I would like to share. And then even better when you ask for it for yourself. Strong organizations really recognize that the more open dialogue, both positive and constructive, because feedback is both, it really helps everyone rise better together.

[00:06:55] Another barrier that I often see is that we just don't know how to say feedback clearly. We use labels instead of behavior. So oftentimes we'll hear, you need to communicate better or you need to be more strategic. Or those comments, you know, really needed to be clear in terms of your messaging. And all of those may be true, but sometimes they're a little too vague to be useful.

[00:07:24] And a practical tool that I often like to see and use is a simple approach, intent plus SBI approach or situation behavior impact. You start with your intent. So why are you sharing the feedback? Is it to help the person grow? Is it to strengthen the relationship, improve the work, support the team? And then you use SBI, situation behavior impact.

[00:07:54] What was the situation? What behavior did you observe? And what was the impact? To get a sense for how this may look in a conversation, it may be instead of saying you need to communicate better. You might say, in yesterday's project meeting, there was a timeline change that really wasn't shared until the end. And several people were kind of unclear about some of the next steps.

[00:08:23] I'm sharing this because I know you care about leading the project really well. And I think some earlier communication will help the team make some better decisions together. That's clear, more specific, and more helpful. When we take a look at the other side of the coin in terms of asking for feedback, I think sometimes we hesitate because asking for feedback requires vulnerability.

[00:08:53] We have to admit that we may not see ourselves clearly. We may worry about what they're going to share and what we're going to hear. Or we may think that sometimes by asking for feedback, it makes us look uncertain. I believe the opposite is true, though. Asking for feedback is a sign of maturity. It says, I care about my impact. I want to keep growing. And I value your perspective.

[00:09:21] And this is one of the reasons that I love and I value 360 assessments. When they're used appropriately and thoughtfully, they can be a tremendous growth experience for leaders because they require a person to put themselves out there, ask for feedback, and then really reflect on that feedback and use that as a piece of information for their own development. That's valuable, but it isn't always easy.

[00:09:49] I have seen 360 feedback really be helpful to highlight strengths that leaders maybe didn't fully recognize in themselves. It could also surface some opportunities or some blind spots that were important for them to understand. And sometimes that feedback can simply reinforce something that they were already self-aware enough to know. And that is still a win as well.

[00:10:16] When we think about feedback, whether it reveals a strength or uncovers a blind spot, or even confirms what we already suspected about ourselves, it really gives us useful information. And it helps us make more intentional choices about how we show up, how we lead, how we communicate, and how we grow. The challenge that I often see coming up is that we ask for feedback too broadly.

[00:10:43] We might say, hey, do you have any feedback for me? And most of the time people are going to maybe say, no, you're doing great. Keep it up. Instead of that, really be thoughtful and ask specific questions about what you're wanting or needing to know. Some of those questions may be like, what is one thing I could have done to make that meeting more effective? What is one thing I should continue doing because it helps the team?

[00:11:14] What is one thing I may not realize about how my communication is landing with people? Specific questions like that really help make it easier for people to give useful feedback. Lastly, how do we become bolder in our feedback journey? And I'm going to give you four key pieces here.

[00:11:37] First is to reframe to ourselves and to others that feedback has care and clarity. Feedback isn't about criticism. At its best and in its best way, it is an act of respect. It says, I believe you're capable of growth and I care enough to be honest with you to let you know what that could look like.

[00:12:03] Secondly, really think about preparing for the conversation. Check your intent. Name the behavior. Understand the impact. And think about what you want the person to either continue, adjust, or just simply understand. Thirdly, really think about how do you make feedback timely in just a normal part of your conversation.

[00:12:29] If feedback only happens during performance reviews or when something goes wrong, then feedback is going to always feel heavy, both to you and the person that you're delivering it to. But when it becomes part of the regular rhythm of work and conversation, it becomes far less intimidating. And lastly, receive feedback well. The way that we respond when others provide feedback teaches people whether it's safe to be honest with us again.

[00:12:57] So it's important to listen, maybe ask some clarifying questions and say thank you and really reflect before we think about defending. Feedback doesn't have to be perfect to be valuable, but it does need to be thoughtful. At the end of the day, feedback is one of the most practical tools that we have for growth. And it can help individuals really understand their impact.

[00:13:25] And it can help teams build trust and clarity and accountability. And it can help organizations really create the conditions where people can do their best work. When feedback is rooted in trust and really guided by clear intent and it's focused on the behavior, not a personal attack.

[00:13:48] And when it's offered with both courage and care, then it becomes more than a difficult conversation to have. It becomes a way to grow your people. And when you grow your people, you grow your business. Hi, my name is Frank Sawyer and I am oh so excited today to get to participate in the Well-Led Podcast.

[00:14:16] I am a former colleague professionally of Kate's and we worked together for many years starting when I was a young leader. And some of the feedback Kate gave me was really transformational in my leadership development. And I've carried it with me through many, many years.

[00:14:35] So a wonderful opportunity today to share some of my perspectives on feedback and the role it plays in development and in leadership. And so thinking about what typically prevents us from providing feedback and asking for feedback. Three key points come to mind. Fear, work and effort.

[00:15:01] I think first starting with fear and asking for feedback, we're afraid of what people might say. We're afraid of the gap between what we think we are doing and who we are and what the outside world is seeing and not always being prepared to grapple with that cognitive dissonance. So fear is thing one. Thing two, from the leader's perspective and giving feedback, is work.

[00:15:30] If you're going to give somebody feedback, you're going to have to put in some work thereafter. You just can't leave it hanging and not do the follow-up and circling back and development that comes with providing that feedback. The constant following to track progress. The third word I used is effort.

[00:15:54] Before one can give meaningful feedback, you actually have to know the subject that you're evaluating. You have to spend time engaging with them and watching them and thinking of real criteria and putting in the work on the front end or effort on the front end so that the feedback that you give is actually meaningful.

[00:16:17] Whether you are giving feedback or asking for feedback, it takes effort and it takes work and it takes overcoming fear to make all of that worthwhile and meaningful. Second question of what solutions do you recommend to others to help them be bolder to give feedback?

[00:16:39] Feedback is all about showing up to me and being willing to put yourself out there and call the ball and call it out in terms of what you're seeing. For me, I could only give feedback if I was fully emotionally honest and willing to put myself out there in a vulnerable space as well.

[00:17:03] As they say, no one wants to be critiqued from someone who's not self-aware themselves. A tactic I would use is I would often subtly ask for feedback in our work setting the stage for my ability to give feedback. I would ask the question often of what am I missing here? Where are my blind spots? What could I do better?

[00:17:28] What are the things that you need from me as your leader that I'm not providing? And through authentically being able to open yourself up and receive feedback from others, oftentimes the door is open to provide feedback. Within that same vein, another favorite question or statement I would say is it's more important that we get it right than I be right. So again, subtly saying I can be wrong here.

[00:17:57] I'm not infallible. And creating a shared vulnerability, trying to break down the potential power dynamic given leader to a more subordinate role, putting on even playing fields so that you can both give and receive that feedback. You know, as I think about some closing thoughts, you know, feedback is essential for development. Receiving feedback is essential for development.

[00:18:26] And giving feedback is absolutely essential for being an effective leader. And when we think about or when I think about my career and the best leaders I had, they're able to sit me down and say, Frank, dot, dot, dot, provide real meaningful feedback. And I had to receive that through the lens of this person is investing in me to make me better and is giving me this feedback to make me better.

[00:18:51] And then on the flip side of that, as a leader, arguably the most important thing I could do is provide real meaningful feedback to those team members that reported to me. It was an investment in making them better. It was an investment in establishing great communications between us. And I would do it in such a way where it was never personal. It was never intended to be cutting.

[00:19:20] It was from a place of reverence where I want you to be the best member of our team that you could possibly be. And this is why I'm going to communicate these things to you in an authentic and honest way. And it was never a one-way conversation.

[00:19:37] I always opened the conversation up so that it could be a dialogue because oftentimes by providing feedback, there's a loop where you're getting feedback and you can get to the best place possible for the individuals and myself. And I pride myself on being a leader that's always learning from the folks that work for me. So really, really interesting topic.

[00:20:05] Thank you, Kate, for raising this to the surface. And I look forward to hearing the podcast and what everyone else has to say. And I'll close with just again saying thank you for the opportunity to share some of my thoughts on this topic. Thank you.

[00:20:57] Or by sharing it with someone who's navigating similar questions. And to help you implement what we discuss here, the latest companion toolkit is now available. Check the show notes for a link to request your copy. and when you subscribe, you'll receive new tools automatically as they're released. We'll be back next week and I'm happy to share that this month's guest for a deeper conversation

[00:21:23] about feedback is Kim Rohrer. Kim joined me in the comfy chairs in 2024 for a conversation about culture and storytelling and over the last year we've been collaborating on a project focused specifically on feedback. We're nearly ready to release It's Giving Feedback, the ultimate guide to supporting performance with confidence, kindness, and precision. So listen in to hear

[00:21:50] from two people who are passionate about feedback and what it can do for your team. I'm Kate Johnson. Thanks again for listening.