How am I the best me?

[00:00:00] If authenticity derives from the Greek for personal achievement, it's useful for us to examine not just what authenticity looks like, but how we go about achieving it. I've proposed that authenticity consists of integrity, humility, and liberty, being genuine and trustworthy, possessing deep self-knowledge, and being free from artifice. Today, we're going to do a deep dive on the central component here, humility.

[00:00:28] And I'm very fortunate to welcome Melissa Norcross to the podcast, who dedicated her doctoral research to understanding humility in teams. Melissa, thank you so much for joining me on The Well-led Podcast. As I've shared, I like to ask my guests to introduce themselves. I am the co-founder of AdLuchem Group. I'm an executive moderator at Collaborative Gain and the co-author of The Intentional Executive,

[00:00:55] which is a purpose-driven playbook that helps executives transform leadership. I leverage about 20-plus years as a strategy executive, coaching and developing leaders to deliver extraordinary results while building highly engaged and collaborative teams.

[00:01:15] I think in short, you can say, I've been living in the trenches, and I have been an observer of other people who have done an extraordinary job and sometimes a terrible job living in those same trenches. Yeah. Yeah. We learn from both, don't we? Absolutely. Which is kind of, I think, a good bridge, a wonderful natural bridge to this first thought question I have.

[00:01:43] You know, humility, I believe, has sort of two sides. That there's understanding my abilities and my strengths, but then humility also allows me to become very intimate with my gaps or my weaknesses as well.

[00:02:00] So before we really dive into that, I would like to know how you have in your work, how you've defined humility before I go rushing down a particular topic.

[00:02:15] I have defined humility, I think, as a solid and healthy understanding of both strengths and weaknesses and being able to prioritize, at least at a team level, superordinate goals above your own individual considerations and performance. And so it's a combination.

[00:02:41] When we think of individual humility, it's one thing. When we think about how humility shows up in a group setting, it's a little bit different. And I think we recognize it more when we watch a sports team where no one's hogging the ball.

[00:03:03] And you see right away the teams where the star players are focused on team performance rather than their own performance and not their own stats, but the team's performance. And I think that's how humility often plays out in the greater world and causes us. It's built on individual humility, but it is built on it.

[00:03:31] That individual humility is the first step in what can be a much bigger impact at a team level too. You've got the knowing your own ability and strengths and gaps and weaknesses exactly the way I would define it. But so I wouldn't disagree with any of it. But I would also build on it when you're thinking about the team level.

[00:03:56] I want to highlight something, Melissa, and kind of thank you for having already modeled this for me. Before we started recording, you were sharing a little bit about some of the things your family has going on. Which one? Thank you. But the way you talked about that is exactly the type of humility you're discussing. You shared, and the words you used were, you know, these people in your life are doing all these extraordinary things this summer.

[00:04:25] And you're excited to be witness to it. Yeah. That's the humility that you're sharing, that you've defined for us. And I like that a deeply personal example like that, like a parent being excited for a child or a child being excited to see what a parent's going to do with their time.

[00:04:51] That's something that even if we don't have formal leadership or depending on the nature or makeup of our team, many of us have that experience. So it makes what we're talking about very real. So thank you for having already been a really good role model of that. Well, I think we see it at work and in teams, too. You know, leadership isn't about the position you're in.

[00:05:17] It's about the impact and the ripple effect you can have on others. Yes. And the ultimate judge of whether your humility is playing out is, are you good at giving the assist for other people? Are you good at helping them achieve their best or nurturing sort of the greater collective by how you show up?

[00:05:45] Can you identify their strengths and play to them? Can you appreciate their strengths and weaknesses? Can you collaborate together to create that? And for me, the big thing is being able to make the most out of your very limited resources. And that's what requires humility. And that's the ultimate gain from humility. Yeah.

[00:06:14] I like that a lot. I like that very much. So let me be wise and redirect us back to this idea of abilities and gaps. How do we go about discovering both of those? Those can be challenging.

[00:06:30] And I think it's much easier to assess someone else's gaps and weaknesses and strengths than it is to reflect on your own. Often they're invisible to you. You don't know. You think what you're doing is extraordinary or normal. Yes. Depending on and it may not be like the things you think are not even a thing.

[00:07:00] We all have colleagues we work with. If your project is in trouble, you know they are the master of figuring out how to make it work. You go to them because that's their superpower. Often they think that's not even a thing. They're busy working on other things. They don't realize that superpower is a thing.

[00:07:20] And I think that's why the things we need to identify those gaps, strengths, abilities, weaknesses, and make that assessment. We need a few things. We need solid peers around us who can be a good mirror for us. Not a fun house mirror that sort of shows us a skewed perspective, but a good mirror.

[00:07:48] And we have to be able to look into that and see that, to respect their opinion, to understand. My favorite adage is, you know, I don't know who discovered water, but it certainly wasn't the fish. You know, we're not going to discover our own strengths and weaknesses in the same way that others see them. So we need other people around us.

[00:08:08] We've also, in the book, I've given a couple of frameworks that are sort of a five by five matrix that allows you to facilitate some of that self-reflection and discussion with other people. But ultimately, I think it comes down to whatever framework you use, you still need outside people who can look at you and see the things you can't. Yeah.

[00:08:35] Well, I think this is, if I pull back a little bit and pull us out of the deep dive into humility and think about it as a component of authenticity, this is part of the reason that authenticity is so important.

[00:08:48] Very much like the skill of being vulnerable as a leader, there is a balance for people to meet, to achieve when it comes to authenticity between being real and overexposing. I said when we started the year with vulnerability, that vulnerability is not nakedness, but it's willing to show like I have soft spots.

[00:09:16] I feel like authenticity is vulnerability dressed up and moving through the world because it's, I've acknowledged that I have these soft spots. I've also allowed myself to accept that maybe I have superpowers and I'm going through the world in a way that I hope to be trustworthy and humble.

[00:09:42] And not burdening myself with having to pretend I'm something different. To pull this back, I think that that bigger picture of authenticity matters because if we hope to gain humility through the insight of others, there has to be this trust that we're all real and that we're all serving the same goal and purpose.

[00:10:08] And without that, any feedback that you receive, any reflection that people give you of what you're doing well or where you have opportunities, it can't stand because I don't trust that you're being honest with me or that you're doing this for my good.

[00:10:28] And I would say the leader has to be the person to start with that modeling of authenticity and openness to gaining the knowledge that leads to humility. I think that's right.

[00:10:44] I think sort of step one isn't necessarily authenticity, but it's trust and its intentions. We have to start from a place that's sort of, to quote an overused phrase, that's psychologically safe.

[00:11:09] But sort of beyond that, we have to start with, I know you intend the best for me and you're focused on that, that you want us collectively to be better together. And that trust builds up slowly over time. There is no fast track to that. And it's everything you do, everything they observe.

[00:11:38] It's not what you say. It's how you show up every day. And the more consistent you are, the faster that will expand. And that, you know, if my mom, who God love her, is my absolute best friend, but who has really navigated the worst of my years, which were my teenage years, as people might imagine. You know, teenage girls are not the easiest thing to navigate.

[00:12:06] And she was incredibly gracious during that time, but never failed, both leading up to that point and beyond, to demonstrate that she's showing up first and foremost with my best interest in mind.

[00:12:31] And that I can trust her in every action to do that. And when she makes a commitment to me, she honors that. And there's never any backtracking on that. And if there is, she's very forthright.

[00:12:48] I think the other thing that I notice about leaders, which is a good litmus test about whether they're able to do this, is the phrase, I don't know. If you hear that phrase, then it's a good indicator. It's not the final test. But if you never hear that phrase, you know, you could have a problem.

[00:13:16] It's sort of that caution light, that engine light that goes on on your dashboard that says, beware. This is not. But you have to admit when you know and when you don't know, when you can discern when you don't know and when you can't discern.

[00:13:35] My favorite person who talks about this is Warren Buffett, because he talks about the levels of in his circle of confidence versus his circle of competence. And he is very clear on what he is and is not an expert in. What is he competent at?

[00:14:00] And he sets that bar high and he narrowly defines what his benchmark is for competence. And he intentionally never gets out over his skis or assumes he is knowledgeable about something that he's not really sure he's knowledgeable about.

[00:14:26] As a result, he often uses the phrase, I don't know. This person knows more. I don't know about that industry. I'm not willing to invest there. And that is a good reminder that as smart as he is at some things, he is so willing to admit the many, many things that he is not at all an expert in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:54] I think the, that line of expertise and being able to kind of segregate, this is what, this is what is effortless for me, where I have joy and flow. Here's where it takes a little bit more challenge. Maybe I am competent, but I'm not expert. And then the whole wide world of everything else. And I think that's part of humility is recognizing that that third bucket is going to be expansive.

[00:15:25] No one person can, can know it all, can drink all of the well of knowledge, if you will. Yeah.

[00:16:01] Yeah. And it's, if you're interested in gaining humility, both for leaders and for teams, looking at what is our whole makeup, where do we have strengths and where do we have opportunities. But to your point, not doing it in isolation, that you want to be able to validate this stuff with trusted, candid people in your circle. Absolutely.

[00:16:26] And I think sometimes the easiest place to start is further from home. So humility sometimes is created when you recognize the greatness in others and you can recognize that that doesn't exist in you. And so when, and this starts long before you become a leader. Yes.

[00:16:53] It starts at, at the very beginning. And if you can look around you and do those assessments and get people to talk about those assessments and their skills and what they think they're good at and what you see them being good at. And appreciate the greatness in each of them.

[00:17:15] It gives you a much healthier perspective about what the greatness or lack of greatness is in you. It doesn't have to be, you know, well, I'm not as good as all of these people. The reality is you're not as good as anybody at at least one thing. Right. You know, everybody is better at something than you are.

[00:17:42] And I think the joy in leadership and in working with other people is getting to know the extraordinariness that they bring. And that helps you figure out, you know, if you want to create a great team, if you want to get something done, all of a sudden you can crowdsource. Greatness. You can get help to do that.

[00:18:06] You can't self create as an individual, a superhero. Superheroes happen at an organization and a team level. And if you're a leader who can appreciate that greatness and build your superhero team or organization, man, you've got it going on.

[00:18:28] A thought that occurred to me listening to you is that a large part of the humble, authentic work of leading and being a member of a team. Yeah. And frankly, I think that we are all leaders of ourselves. So we all have a leadership responsibility, even if it isn't formal. So it applies across the board. But.

[00:18:54] The starting point for this is recognizing intrinsic worth. So even if even if I'm not great at. I can't dance. I'm a very clumsy human. Amen, sister. Right there with you. Yes. Just because I lack that ability or skill. It doesn't mean I'm worthless.

[00:19:19] And reminding ourselves of that about ourselves, but also about the people around us, even if we find them frustrating or they're not performing to our standard fill in the blank. We all have a baseline of being worthy because we're here. And even if that's even if your humility, you're being humble or coming low. Gets you to that point. You can't go deeper than that.

[00:19:49] You have worth. And I think that's an important place for us to always start in these conversations, especially when we're talking about skills, because we do tend to do a comparison across all the things, whether it's education or past experience or how well you know you can do a spreadsheet versus what mine look like.

[00:20:17] Because we play this game of comparison, we have to remember that we all come with the same like serving of worth. Yeah. And even in the face of being great at something or really struggling or failing to do another thing. Part of humility is recognizing the reality of who you are.

[00:20:44] Authenticity is being that person out in the world. Leaders need to acknowledge that they and their employees are valuable. Intrinsically, their humanity gives them worth. And the other stuff is just trappings around it.

[00:21:06] So if somebody is not performing well, you can still be authentic and humble and bring them that difficult feedback without detracting from who they are as a human. Absolutely. I think sometimes people confuse humility with worthlessness. Yes. And they are not the same things. Exactly.

[00:21:34] I also believe that everyone is extraordinary. Period. Full stop. If you don't see how an individual is extraordinary and what their superpower is, you need to keep looking. Yes. Because you've missed it. Now, it may be that that individual or person isn't a good fit for this role, skill set, whatever.

[00:22:02] Our job as peers, as leaders, as sort of co-journeers in this life is to identify that in others and do what we can to make sure that we're playing to their strengths. Yes. You know, I think about Michael Phelps is, you know, arguably one of the greatest swimmers of all times. And we would say he's an Olympic athlete.

[00:22:32] He's an extraordinary athlete. But if you were a basketball coach, you would be incredibly disappointed in Michael Phelps. Yes. If you were a volleyball coach, you would think you would, but you would be rating him on the wrong scale. Mm-hmm. And so as a leader, if you see someone who's working for you who is not extraordinary, maybe the fit is wrong.

[00:22:58] Maybe you're, you know, maybe their fit is wrong. And part of your job is to help get them into the right spot. Maybe it's in your organization. Maybe it's not. But everybody is extraordinary in some way and not extraordinary in other ways. Warren Buffett is a financial genius, but not someone I would take marriage advice from.

[00:23:25] You know, Michael Phelps, I would pick him first on my swim relay team. Track? Basketball? Not so much, you know. And that goes over and over again. I worked with an extraordinary chief technology officer who, if I had a technology problem, he would be the first person I would call.

[00:23:46] But if I had a different kind of problem, like, say, a leadership challenge, not the first person I would call, that makes him no less extraordinary. It makes me a good individual and authentic if I can understand what that is and use it to its right strengths.

[00:24:10] You know, a hammer isn't a bad tool because it doesn't screw in a screwdriver, what a screwdriver will. But I also can't use a screwdriver, what I use a hammer for. I need both tools. Exactly right. And I need to appreciate that. I like the not everything's a nail, right? You don't need a hammer for every single approach.

[00:24:34] And when you're struggling, when you are struggling or when you see a team member struggling, not leaping to the, this person is bad at their job or they're just trying to make my life difficult by not doing things on time. Asking that question, is there something in the circumstances around them? Is this job not the right fit? Right. Where are their skills going to be best used?

[00:25:02] And not having, again, not doing that in isolation. You need to be having that conversation with the individual. Absolutely. You know, it's always in partnership as you're trying to figure it out. And I'll be honest, that leadership journey starts when you're a peer.

[00:25:21] When you are on a team, you look at sports teams, the leader, the manager, the coach is not on the field. In most cases, they cannot communicate with the team. People on the team are not in the same place in the field. So you get lots of micro leadership emerging and ebbing and flowing over time.

[00:25:50] That's how we work in organizations and in operations. When you're in, you know, rolled up your sleeves and you're knee deep in solving a problem, you're often working with two or three other people to figure it out. And there's no team leader there. It's just you and your peers trying to figure it out. But there are leadership moments that happen all along and you each have to step up to that.

[00:26:16] I love that way of thinking about those moments of leadership. So we've been re-re-watching Ted Lasso recently. I see it. Yep. It's also, it's a good reminder when we think about authentic humble leadership. Sometimes you are leading not because you are necessarily the star, the ace, the striker.

[00:26:44] You're leading because you're there in the moment and you have the right perspective to take the lead, to do the thing. And recognizing that your circumstances, sometimes things over which you have no control, are what put you in that position as opposed to your own capability or even your own choice.

[00:27:07] One, it can be very humbling, but it also clears away your ego so you can focus on the task at hand. Well, absolutely. And, you know, I can think, going back to your example, you've got Jamie Tartar, who's a great, great striker, right? Imagine him in goal. No. That is a disaster waiting to happen.

[00:27:34] And yet you need an extraordinary goalkeeper in order to have an extraordinary team. In order to win games, you have to do that. You put him on defense, same problem.

[00:27:45] So what your role is, if you are the leader on that team or even other players on that team, is to make sure you keep your peers and your teammates in places where their extraordinariness contributes to the success in aggregate. And you figure out how to best compensate. What is it, Gallup says?

[00:28:14] Compensate for your weaknesses so much so that, well, no, focus on your strengths so much so that your weaknesses become irrelevant. Nobody cares that Michael Phelps is not the best volleyball or basketball player. No. Could not care less. We don't care that, you know, out of the pool, he's a fish out of water. That's okay. Yep.

[00:28:37] You know, he's, but that means we don't put him on a track relay team. Yeah. We don't do these things with him. We don't put the striker in at goal. We, you know, understand where things break down and that's, that is our role. And sometimes where you are depends, what you see depends on where you are and where you stand.

[00:29:05] And we're all climbing mountains, right? Yes. We're at different spots on that mountain. We're in different places. And how we show up has to evolve sometimes. So our strengths aren't static either. They evolve over time. What I was terrible at three years ago, I might be great at now. What I was great at two years ago, you know, other people might have since passed me.

[00:29:32] And now that's not a strength anymore. That's okay. Okay. You've brought up a couple of metaphors or mental models that. Yeah. I'm going to use as a way to get to my next set of questions. This idea of us. Sometimes we're alone on the journey. Sometimes we have partners. And I've stated that this quarter, third quarters, leadership essential.

[00:30:03] That essential responsibility that leaders have is to choose grace. And I believe that the competencies, the skills that we're talking about this quarter, they are what allow us to navigate the reality of working with humans. People who are extraordinary but also flawed. Who have great capabilities and sometimes make bad choices. That's all of us. Yeah.

[00:30:29] In this context, I see authenticity as the roadmap. It's a starting point for successfully managing people and their flaws. I'd like to hear your thoughts. And if I can stretch that metaphor even further, what function specifically does humility play in our journey?

[00:30:57] I think authenticity, you know, and authenticity can be used and misused in any number of ways. When I think about authenticity, if someone says to me, I am, you know, this is just who I am. Period. Full stop. You know, I usually call BS on that one. Mostly because we all show up differently.

[00:31:25] I show up differently with my mom than I do at work, than I do with my kids. With my kids when they were five versus my kids when they're teenagers versus my kids when they're grown adults. I show up differently. My husband is a retired army officer. Okay. And we have, you know, kids. And those kids have grown up.

[00:31:49] If he shows up in the field, in the height of battle, in the same way that he shows up at home, when we're trying to decide with our teenagers what we're doing for the weekend, that's not going to go well in either place. No. But he can show up authentically in both situations. So there's that aspect of authenticity also acknowledges, you know, it lets you be you,

[00:32:19] but it lets you be the you for the situation. I also think part of authenticity is being real about what your own weaknesses are. Yes. Part of that humility is owning where I'm just terrible. Like, it's not my strength. And making myself vulnerable in that situation to say, I'm not perfect. And this is where I know I fall down.

[00:32:49] We all are, you know, good at things. But nobody ever gets up in the morning, takes a shower and says, I'm going to go out and be a jerk today. Everybody leaves their shower, gets dressed, has their coffee and thinks, I'm going to be the best version of me I can be. Sometimes we do well. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we do as well as we can, but it's not a situation that we're strong in.

[00:33:16] And that authenticity and humility combination allows us to be open to the fact that we may trip. And if we do, we're going to figure out what are our plans to do it. But we also have to have demonstrated enough grace with other people that we know they didn't get up every day to do a terrible job or to be a jerk.

[00:33:43] They get up every day trying to be their best and do their best. And that benefit of the doubt that, you know, you call it grace. You can call it benefit of the doubt. You can call it assuming the best or coming from curious. All different ways of thinking about that. So many different ways to say the same thing. Yeah, exactly.

[00:34:04] It's that is always how you then shape how you interact with them, which is their model for how they will interact with you. And it allows you to flex as a team. It allows you to flex as a partnership to get better, which unlocks your ability to operate at the very maximum of your capability because we all are on a journey.

[00:34:29] Curiosity and eagerness to learn are such great indicators of authentic, humble living just in general, but especially in leadership. A leader who doesn't just say, I don't know, but then goes on to say, can you teach me? Can you explain this to me? That's somebody that will, one, I'll follow.

[00:34:57] And two, is doing that work to know themselves and to put what the goal is, what you're trying to accomplish first. Absolutely. And I think that's superordinate goal. Yes. Matters more than anything else. Exactly. There's nothing like, what nothing unifies a team more than a common enemy. Yes. But if a common enemy is a problem to be solved.

[00:35:27] You know, you want to get, I started out as an engineer, you know, sort of developed in the workforce and at college in this pile of engineers who were, who fell in love with solving problems. And when you are excited about solving a problem and working together with other people and no one knows what the solution is, it unifies you.

[00:35:53] And you have that humility and you find that the humbler you are about your approach, the more likely you are to solve harder problems, faster, better. And what's more fun than that? It's fresh on my mind because I don't record all of my guest calls in order. So we're, we're speaking to the future. This episode will come out in July.

[00:36:22] It's currently May. And my April focus was on clarity. And I believe there are some key facets of clarity that are important for leaders to examine, understand, be able to speak to. And the first of those is clarity of purpose.

[00:36:42] When we are clear about our purpose, whether it's a particular purpose, like what are we trying to accomplish with this one project? Or what are we trying to accomplish by the end of the day? Or a big defining purpose, like what is my leadership story? What do I want for the people that work for me? That purpose lets all the other stuff fall away.

[00:37:10] And it's, you can set ego aside. You can put your players in the right roles. If everything is driving toward, this is what we're here to do, whether it's solve a problem, you know, manage contact with the enemy, to have a great day, to throw an amazing party, whatever your purpose is.

[00:37:35] Because that lets you come at the work when it is the first thing in a way that is just you, just yourself. And invite everyone else to do the same.

[00:37:52] I would be interested, you've done it somewhat already, but thinking about your book, The Intentional Executive, and the idea of authenticity. What does intentional authenticity look like in the day to day? I think, I think you nailed it a little bit with the purpose.

[00:38:21] For, for all of the other factors, if you peel everything else away, ultimately purpose is the most powerful thing you can have. Because you can tolerate a lot of misery if it's in service of a greater purpose. You can tolerate a lot of hearts, a lot of unknowns, a lot of questions, a lot of challenges.

[00:38:51] I mean, we see it with Olympic athletes. We see it with parents every day. We see it with anything. I mean, there's a story about, you know, John F. Kennedy walking into NASA and walking up to the janitor and asking, you know, what are you doing? And the guy's mopping the floor. And he says, I am sending a man to the moon. Yes. You know. And that connection to that bigger purpose is important.

[00:39:22] There's research that's been done in hospitals as well with janitors who are, you know, when they're asked and they answer with, I'm helping people become healthier. I'm helping them get better and recover. They do lots of discretionary things that they don't have to do.

[00:39:43] And being connected to that purpose and knowing that you have an authentic set of people around you also connected to that purpose, it creates what I like to think of as the most powerful pronoun in the world. We. It's a we that shows up.

[00:40:04] And when I listen to leaders and teams, the thing I notice first is what's their pronoun usage. If it's we, you know, they've got purpose. You know, they don't track their individual stats as much as they track the organization or the team stats. They're more likely to be passionate about that and more engaged with that.

[00:40:32] And that does require that sort of safe and authentic space. It requires your ability to work together. But it has this sense of this greater purpose and this community. And you create this kinship around you, which is this lockstep you all get into around this greater mission.

[00:40:59] And then it matters less what you do on a moment to moment basis. What happened in a moment to moment? Because you know, it's all just noise. It's easier to neglect that stuff and sort of live in your authentic space with that clarity of focus on where you're heading. Without purpose. It's not just that the hard stuff becomes onerous. The easy stuff loses meaning. Exactly.

[00:41:24] And I feel like in the workplace, that is the thing that we should meaning is the thing that we should really white knuckle onto. Yeah. Because work is work.

[00:41:39] And even if the meaning for you is a paycheck so that you can have the life you want, being able to be grounded back in that, it makes work less worky, I guess, is the silly way to talk about that. Yes, it does. And, you know, while purpose is often collective, meaning is different for every person a little bit.

[00:42:08] And, you know, we can have, you know, the same paycheck at any number of organizations. But when we have meaning, two things happen. You know, we can choose to be at a place where we have meaning or choose to create that meaning for ourselves in the space that we're at is how I like to do it.

[00:42:34] But it also gives us sort of satisfaction and joy in those moments. And you spend too much time at work. Yes. Doing work to be miserable. And why not make it extraordinary for both other people and ourselves if we can?

[00:43:00] You know, it's authenticity. Even humility. It's one of those things that I feel the effort involved is is so ironic. Because you are who you are. Right. Like, yes, sometimes people use that as an excuse. But the fact is, it should be the easiest thing in the world to be yourself.

[00:43:29] Should be negative effort. Right. However, for all the reasons, it has become something that is effortful for people, particularly in the workplace and in leadership roles. That we've adopted, actively embraced this idea of perfection, never let them see you sweat, always right, always have all the answers.

[00:43:58] Which means that we're now in a position where the easy thing, authenticity, is a challenge. Every part of it carries some sort of effort, a cost for people. I think it's important to acknowledge that for people who are working in those environments where, you know, showing your weakness can come with punishment or worse circumstances.

[00:44:27] But what are the benefits that outweigh the cost? If there's a friction point in being your authentic self, ask and start problem solving that looking for, is this really the barrier or is it something else? Is it, have I not looked for the third path where it's neither this nor that, but some third way of being?

[00:44:51] Because 99% of the time, it's that you haven't been creative enough in looking for the solution. And my favorite story about creativity and innovation is the story of Dr. Seuss being challenged by this colleague of his who was trying to teach young people how to read.

[00:45:15] And at the time, the only readers available for kids to learn to read were these terrible books that were, and the best ones were the Dick and Jane, but they still weren't that compelling.

[00:45:26] And this guy said, look, I challenge you to write the most compelling book you possibly can using only these 50 words that are the most common 50 or 100 words in the English language that is so compelling that a first grader learning to read cannot put it down. It's almost addictive. And that's how he began writing the books the way he did.

[00:45:53] That's how we got Dr. Seuss, because they upped the level of innovation. And arguably, it helped him become his better authentic self. It wasn't the kind of things he was drawing or writing before. But when he constrained the problem even more, he got innovative. And lo and behold, it was a much better solution.

[00:46:20] So that's where I think we need to engage our creativity to figure out how do you be your authentic best self. And sometimes that's when the challenge for us comes into play.

[00:46:34] And that's where I've seen my team members really shoot through the roof in terms of their performance, their happiness, their ability to scale to the next level is they were being artificially stuck by something that when they shifted their way of thinking a little bit, all of a sudden they were happier. And when they were happier, their performance was better and the organization was happier and they fit better, too.

[00:47:03] I think back to what you shared about your husband, this idea that an army officer isn't necessarily going to show up the same way at home as he will in battle. And both of those things are true. Both of those are authentic to this person. And when we find ourselves in those moments of, I fear I can't be authentic.

[00:47:29] One of the things that we can ask, I can ask of myself is, am I being inflexible? Have I decided that I should be able to show up at work the way I show up Saturday night at my best friend's? And because I don't have that, I don't feel that that's appropriate. Am I, have I just gotten rigid because I want to feel more relaxed and carefree where the circumstance may not call for it?

[00:47:56] And the advice, the answer is not to shift yourself. It's to recognize that you need to be flexible and open to bringing different parts of yourself forward depending on the circumstance. How am I me in this context? Yes. How am I the best me in this context? That same husband, bless him, he gets to be an example everywhere, is, you know, even in uniform.

[00:48:27] In the heart of battle versus at a desk in presentation with senior leadership arguing for a project or negotiating with an external supplier. Guess what? He shows up differently. I show up differently as a leader.

[00:48:42] When I'm counseling somebody who's had an incredible failure or loss and is struggling with that versus someone who needs me to roll up my sleeves and solve a problem or needs to come along beside them for something else. I show up differently in every single space that I am.

[00:49:05] But the question I'm asking about being authentic is how am I the best me in this context? Yeah. I'll use my, I'll use my husband as an example. Um, Nate served in the nuclear Navy. He was a submariner, but he also has served as, um, a Boy Scout leader. Mm-hmm.

[00:49:29] And one of the things he talks about is when new families would join the troop, he had this little kind of speech that he would give the parents. You know, the boy would be sent off to learn with the boys. And Nate would tell the new parents, um, you know, I'm, this is my experience. I've, I was a scout myself. This is, you know, how long I've been with the troop.

[00:49:52] Look, and I've got, I've got to let you know, um, I try to always be the scout master, but sometimes the submariner comes out. And if that's going to be a problem, I want you to be aware of it. And you can choose whether or not this is the right troop for you. And it's, he's, he's himself. I mean, he is an Eagle Scout. He is the scout master. And sometimes the submariner comes out.

[00:50:17] And my guess is he has also spent a lot of time working on being a better version of himself in that scout master role. So he's not, it's not a one way. Hey, I just need you to understand who I am. Exactly. And I'm not, I'm going to be inflexible. It's, I'm leaning into the scout master role.

[00:50:42] And occasionally this comes out in me sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Yes. But it, but that's the reality. And my guess is the scout master that he is today is not the same one he was two years ago or, you know, six months ago even. Yeah. And that's true for all of us. Right. And if we are resisting that, what is it?

[00:51:09] The friction that makes us grow, that reshapes us to be better people. We miss out on those growth opportunities. Yeah. Well, it's, I think we need to be open to the possibility because we all contain multitudes. If I can be a little cliche that those elements of yourself that maybe aren't appropriate for the moment, you're not suppressing them.

[00:51:36] You're allowing them to take a backstage and they might, they might actually serve to support and make the other things better. Nate, your husband, for an example, that who they were in service, even if it doesn't show up. Uh, during the scout meeting or in the briefing that that version of themselves has improved what they're doing currently.

[00:52:06] Absolutely. It feeds, it supports, it means they can handle a crisis when it steps out. It's, you know, those same things. And we're figuring that out all the time. And that's, I think, and what I love about how you're thinking about all of these things is that it's a growth mindset.

[00:52:30] It's a real recognition that we are still growing as individuals. We get better on our journey. And if we stop exploring what is possible, what could be different, what could we lose out on a lot. And we are now living in a world that's evolving and changing rapidly.

[00:52:54] And the, the mental models, the approaches, the other things that we've used in the past, some will serve us well. Some needs needed new components to be added to some of them will need to be new entirely. And if we're not leaning into that and figuring that out as we go along and growing in it, we're missing an opportunity.

[00:53:17] And we will no longer be the extraordinary leaders that we could be. Agreed. I can't agree. Of ourselves, of other people, of our organizations, of our teams. Yeah.

[00:53:31] I, I love this as kind of the period on the sentence of our conversation that real authenticity made up of humility and other components of who we are evolves.

[00:53:51] That your authentic self today can, may, even should possibly be different a week, a year, a decade down the road. And you get. One would hope so. I would hate to be the same person I was at 16. Oh my goodness. Imagine. I've been at least like, I've been at least 50 different people since that time. Exactly. You know, or just starting my career.

[00:54:16] You know, every few years I look back and think, I didn't know anything then. You know, or, you know, my, you know, if we were stuck in who we are, we would all be very sad indeed. Right. One of my favorite songs when I was 16 was the Indigo Girls Watershed. And, you know, it's, I think about my 16 year old self thinking this was a poignant line.

[00:54:45] And I'm like, oh, you sweet summer child. Because every five years or so I look back on my life and I have a good laugh. And that's, you know, that's the ultimate humility in being able to look at yourself. And I think the more of those moments that you have, not just personally, but professionally,

[00:55:07] and you can look back and see the shortcomings, the sharper you can define the edges around your own confidence and your understanding of it, the smarter you get about how you can show up well and how you can help other people show up well and how you can lead in whatever role you're in

[00:55:31] to the extraordinary purpose delivery that you want. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, Melissa. This has been such a fun conversation. I've enjoyed learning from you and having the chance to put some ideas out there for you to work on and help me refine. Thank you. Well, me too.

[00:55:58] It's always great to talk to other people who are thinking about these things and sort of leaning in to helping us collectively think about how we show up for ourselves and for others and in our roles to get more out of the experience and to help other people get more out of the experience. Because that's ultimately the work. Absolutely.

[00:56:27] I call this quarter's essential choosing grace. The real secret is behind all of this is this idea that leadership is a love story. And it's that what leadership love looks like is showing up as your best self and wanting the best for others. Mm hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. There's a great book. It's called Love 2.0.

[00:56:56] No. And it's part of Fredrickson's book. Okay. Um, as micro moments of shared positive resonance and warmth and connection. Um, and it's, um, it started out, Barbara Fredrickson is, um, also someone who wrote about, um, followership. Yes. As an element of leadership.

[00:57:26] And so this love 2.0, um, I read it as a business book, um, on creating meaningful connection, not just with other people, but with your work life, with your organization, with other things. And so, um, that's something you might want to look at too and see if, um, it has any power for you. Yeah. As a model. Definitely going to thank you for that recommendation.

[00:57:55] Melissa, thank you so much for your time today. I've really appreciated it. Thank you. And thank you for making time for me. It's been a great discussion and a good chance for me to reflect on things that, you know, some of which I've thought about recently, others that, you know, are further developing in my thinking as I think about what's next. You've been listening to a WellEd podcast. If this episode was useful, you can support the show by following or subscribing on your

[00:58:25] preferred podcast platform or by sharing it with someone who's navigating similar questions. The latest companion toolkit is available. Check the show notes for a link to request your free copy. Thanks for listening.