Workplace Mental Health and Wellness Sorted with Karaconnect

[00:00:00] Oh my goodness, bad touching, harassment, sex, violence, fraud, threats, all things that could have been avoided. If you had Fama, stop hiring dangerous people. Fama.io You know what I like about I Solved? Everything. I Solved is People-Centric. And in a People-Centric world, you need a People-Centric solution.

[00:00:31] I Solved People Cloud is a comprehensive human capital management solution that helps you employ, enable and empower your workforce throughout the entire employment life cycle. From tracking to recruiting to onboarding and clients from payroll to benefits to

[00:00:44] time and labor management, transform your employee experience for a better today and a better tomorrow with I Solved. For more information go to isolvedhcm.com Hi, this is William Tinker, and I'm Larry and you're listening to the Use Case Podcast.

[00:01:01] Today from I Solved, we have Tobah on with us, that's her nickname by the way, she's going to pronounce her full name so pay attention. We will build, there goes there's going to be a quiz at the end of that.

[00:01:15] So kind of feel like she's going to say it nicer than you did though. Oh, 100%. Are you kidding me? She knows English a hell of a lot better than I know Icelandic. So there's that.

[00:01:27] Tobah, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself properly and tell us a little bit about your company? Yeah, thank you. Hello guys. Hello everyone. Hello. And so I think you did it quite well. It's Toppa. My real name is Torpe Ur Calca Vifustofta.

[00:01:43] You can try that later. No, let's try it now. So later I want to try it now. I'm not a fan of the word to my parents that I might be working outside of the island.

[00:01:57] They didn't, you know, but yeah, so I am the founder and CEO of company called Karakonect and we are giving access to the right kind of help in mental health and wellbeing. Yeah, you got to tell us how'd you get into this bit? How'd you start this company?

[00:02:20] I don't know how short it will be, but I started out studying in the University of Washington in Seattle. I loved it. I was doing my master's there in educational psychology and I was studying metacognition, which is your ability to think about your thoughts.

[00:02:38] It actually crossed a little bit with philosophy. And then I learned about the deviations of the brain quite a bit on that because this is something that people don't have when they're autistic or have some kinds of brain problems.

[00:02:54] So I just accidentally, you know, started studying about the deviations and the development of the brain basically. I went back home after a stop in France and started working in politics and you know,

[00:03:09] or maybe you don't, but in the in the inorex we pay everything as in access to help with the taxpayers money. So you have to do politics and you want to change systems. So I went in there and I wanted to change how the children were getting help,

[00:03:28] what kind of help they were getting. And you know, it didn't go really well. I have to make that request. Needle and I started the discussion and all the parents that had these kids were with me,

[00:03:42] but it's hard to change, change the school system, all these welfare systems. Then I left. I started a speech therapy company that was just using Zoom in 2015, 2014.

[00:03:57] And I realized that we needed an Uber model kind of a setup for because it was payment was different than users and users different than professionals. And we needed somehow to give access to different types of professionals to get the right help through.

[00:04:15] So I started to connect with more people on 2015 and we've been building like for a few years, we've been building a secure workstation to get these professionals online and now we have around 3000 of them doing 60 kinds of professional services

[00:04:33] and in 35 languages, you know, we have to do that in Europe. And we are building well being hubs for companies to access these different people for different reasons and different kinds of employees. And it's just really nice to wake up every day to do this job.

[00:04:51] That's an interesting story talk more about so you just mentioned it well being hubs talk more about that I that's interesting to me. Yeah, so if I go back a little bit I started out thinking special education hubs.

[00:05:08] Right and I wanted these hubs to be in the schools accessible to these professionals. As I said market was not there and the kids all of a sudden were at work. And I thought well, I mean the same problem is going to move up the ladder.

[00:05:25] So we started introducing well being hubs in the same form. We, for example, go into a retail company where the average age of employees is 35 or 45.

[00:05:37] And we produce well being that actually has what they need different languages different kind of maybe communication skills problems maybe anxiety, nutrition sleep. And then we go into university and we have more for older or elder people.

[00:05:56] We have menopause, we have all these things and we just cater to the company's needs. And of course white label the well being hub. And then like I said in the beginning the pay is always different. So the companies are paying credits basically.

[00:06:13] If you're an employee of the retail company get six credits to use the hub and you can use it, you know, go forth and back.

[00:06:20] And what's important to say here that most of our competition is paying is monetizing the professional side just like the discussion but we are not we are paying the professionals the right fee. They're almost 85% women and they're not very high that charging not very high anyway.

[00:06:42] So we're changing the game there with paying the right fee to the professionals and that's how we can grow our aggregator of professional services basically.

[00:06:54] You listed off a couple of those services. Could you go a little bit more into as you talked about nutrition, you talked about sleep. What other what what's the array right now? What touches mental health I guess is a broader.

[00:07:08] Yeah, so the percent of the bookings are mental health professionals. Right. They're all kinds and they have tags. So if you are gay you can figure out who to see right. You can also, you know, tag the language or whatever it is that you need.

[00:07:25] So we have a diverse profile of psychologists or psychotherapist on it because that's the most needed service. But then we have financial support, nutrition, all kinds of nutritionists. We have people that help you breathe coaches. We have people that help you with communication skills, all kinds of coaching.

[00:07:51] We have fertility. We have like I said, menopause. We have just a whole range of services that we would in Europe say we're in between you being healthy and the hospital services. Right.

[00:08:06] Yeah, so it's like a territory kind of group of people that can be preventative on some things but can also help you if you're in trouble already. What's the company profile that you're targeting with Care Connect? Good question.

[00:08:27] We are all over the place, which is a little bit of a problem. So we have hospitals, we have law firms, we have consulting services, we have the big four, we have all kinds. We have retail universities, like I said, we have energy companies, aluminum plants.

[00:08:47] And just, you know, we now know that we can service a lot of different companies but the focus now is actually consultation services and law firms because they are really quick at figuring out if they can save a couple of sick days.

[00:09:04] This will be very good for them only wise. And then the second tier is actually companies that have a high security protocol. So energy companies, construction companies, they all have a liability to make sure that their people are safe and this is a part of it.

[00:09:28] So these two seem to be a very nice niche. Markets very different but seem to be our effect right now at least.

[00:09:38] I think they go to market on a lot of these types of plays has been historically incorrect in that they've marketed as a good thing to do. You know, this is moral.

[00:09:52] This is just the right way to treat your employees, treat them like the whole human care about them. A lot of empathy steeped in this I should care, you should care, etc. I actually think all that shit's just incorrect.

[00:10:10] I think that the way to market this company is about productivity. It's like, yeah, you could talk about all that stuff till people are bullied in the face and they're either going to care or they're not going to care. But they're always going to care about productivity.

[00:10:24] They are. So if you talk to them about productivity and just say hey listen, whether or not it's the right thing or the wrong thing or the moral thing or whatever. Here's the deal. Yeah, less sick days.

[00:10:38] We can definitely show that and we research shows it gives you 4 to 600% back, but our first cases are 800% back. You don't have to get a lot of sick days away from your sheets to miss payoff. That's for business leaders and board members. That's all they care about.

[00:11:06] Well, no, I wouldn't say all. No, all's the wrong word. 90%. I think what we are up against is that we talk to HR managers and they say, oh my God, this is exactly what we're looking for.

[00:11:21] And then they go to the CFOs and then that's the argument. Absolutely. Yeah, because the CFOs and the CEOs often and they say this to my face. Oh, HR always wants to do good with the people. Yeah. Yeah. And it does.

[00:11:41] You're a CEO that shouldn't be a CEO. That's the response right there. But the but the but the it does do good. It's just that shouldn't come up in conversation. No, it should be a win-win in all these. Right. The business leaders care about the business, which is.

[00:12:01] Their job care about profitability and you're either you're either you're either an extra profit and loss comes from revenue. And expenses. So you're either adding revenue, which this is if. If you're adding back performance. So if you're helping someone with mental health.

[00:12:21] And now they're producing more are a high level. Easy to work with, etc. Everyone wins. So yes, it's the right and moral. Maybe even ethical thing to do. But it's also just a great business move. Like this is just good business. True.

[00:12:40] Yeah, the thing that I was surprised about, you know, knowing what I knew about the children and their needs and the increasing needs and increasing autism and ADHD and all this. Is that I didn't.

[00:12:53] I didn't see until a little bit in an after sight that digital tools have changed. The actual access. 100% help. I thought you were going to go the route of the digital tools have changed their brain. They have both.

[00:13:08] Okay, have they changed our generation that is coming to work. Right. Also eliminated church neighborhood things. Yep. Go to the bank anymore. Don't go to the post office anymore. Social interactions social interactions have just been deleted by default because of technology.

[00:13:29] And we've been doing it like this, but with that's not the same thing. And now we have like a whole generation that grew up in their most sensitive brain development phase. Scrolling and change the circuits.

[00:13:45] And you guys in the US have been talking about it more than the Europeans. But this is basically what all the HR managers say that they're just welcoming a different type of generation. They are more stressed, more anxious about things.

[00:14:03] They're, they have a hard time with social interactions. They don't want to make a phone call. Right. Pick a fight, you know, and they just, you know, along with this, they also are over protected of our, you know, us. The family, the parents.

[00:14:21] So they don't go to work as young as we did. They don't have those interactions where we had to learn how to be, you know, rude to someone or whatever, you know, we learn. Yeah. And then you are at work.

[00:14:35] So basically they're coming in almost needing a bit of parenting. And then they need support as well. Yeah. So question on, on the, I guess, the buying process. Yeah.

[00:14:50] Where when you're talking with a company, where, where are they, where are they disconnecting from you if they're not going to be a buyer, they don't see a value in it.

[00:15:01] Where's the disconnect and kind of the reason I asked this question is I think we're talking about a lot of different people within an organization. HR, you already said cares about the people, the CFO, the CEO. They're more about the bottom line. There's probably crossover somewhere in there.

[00:15:23] But I'm curious, where is that disconnect? What did they truly, if they don't buy from you or they don't buy from another solution similar? Where's the disconnect from the CEO or CFO level? So there are two things at play, in my opinion.

[00:15:38] One is that many of the CEOs, so the HR will present to the CEOs or the CFOs and they will say, you know, this is not something that the company has to do. This is supposed to be done by the...

[00:15:54] It's a nice to have, not a need to have. So if we start doing this, you know, then everybody starts doing this and what about the tax money that we're paying for? This is supposed to be. And this, in my honest opinion, is very old fashioned view.

[00:16:11] And we will never get through there. So we'll just back out. So the second one is yes, I know we're going to have to be a part of the safety net to help people. We need people at work. We can't just dump the health insurance.

[00:16:26] So they have a... The stopper there is the budgeting. So they've never paid or maybe, you know, a little bit, but they've never really paid for help like this. So there's a new budget. So that's our challenge. And that's why our safe cycle is pretty slow.

[00:16:46] But everybody agrees that this is coming and this is something that they need to go for. So we have offers. I mean, we can produce a well-being hub only for women if they think that's a problem.

[00:16:58] We can do a neurodiversity hub in the beginning and we can step in a little more lightly for lower usage or for a budget that just, you know, just like... We plan a budget with them and try to limit on the credits when they're through.

[00:17:14] And it's just, you know, the ATAR manager and NPS score is 100. And I'm waiting for it to fall down. But they really like that all the line managers have something to show them open up and say, you have choices. They're all within this week.

[00:17:32] You know, there's plenty of things. We also have leadership hub, which usually is a good opener so we can start with only the leadership team. And that, you know, shows the usage and the need. And then they will say, hey, this is great.

[00:17:50] And then we have also an option for companies that are not ready at all. But we say, you know, if you have a crisis, talk to us. We'll send you help immediately. And we have a crisis hub as well. So we're very versatile in trying to get in.

[00:18:08] But I think the actual stopper is the budgeting. Yeah, and I think the... So Mike tells me... So was that, right? Yeah. Yeah, it is. But the thing is, some of this, whatever you're dealing with an enterprise sale and the sales too long,

[00:18:28] it's been my experience that we're talking to the wrong people. Right? We're talking to... Well, in this case, let's say we're talking to an HR director. We don't have access to the CHRO.

[00:18:40] We don't have access to the benefits people where some of this is going to come from their budget. So it takes long because we're talking to the wrong people. But what I love about what you're doing is it's highly personalized kind of performance or achievement.

[00:18:59] And again, it's helping employees meeting where they are and helping them with bespoke specific things that they need at that moment. Which if that's not... If that doesn't lead to performance, I don't know what does. Because if you think about the whole system in play,

[00:19:20] you want to have the right connection between the right professional and... 80% of the results of therapy is the connection you have with your therapist. So we are trying our best to have enough of options so that people can pick and choose

[00:19:38] and be responsible for their choice because that's their journey they're embarking on. But the company is actually supporting them both giving access and paying their way to start. And these are the two biggest barriers for getting help. Access and payment. Right.

[00:19:57] What are you seeing in terms of adoption and usage when you go into a company and you... If you're starting in the leadership with the leadership team, let's say they have 50 people, whatever that number is. Are they... Are you finding that they're using this because it's available?

[00:20:18] Or do they still shy away from it because they're afraid that if they use it, others will know on the leadership team. Is there... Is there some privacy? Yeah, good question. So the leadership hub is usually pushed quite heavily to say,

[00:20:37] guys, you have options of leadership coaching here. We're all going to be using it. So it's quite close and personal and it's pushed for usage. And usually they have more sessions also to spend. The other type, the well-being hub,

[00:20:56] we are dependent on pushing it out and introducing it of course, but our average usage rates is 25% of the employees using it or using it for a whole year, which is way higher than the next AP that is in service in Europe, which is like 1 to 2%. Wow.

[00:21:14] What do you attribute that to? I think it's the choice and also what you were, you know, coming at Ryan is the security part. So everybody... Oh my goodness. Bad touching, harassment, sex, violence, fraud, threats, all things that could have been avoided.

[00:21:39] If you had Fama, stop hiring dangerous people. Fama.io. I'm going to talk about companies that we've worked with and this is why we partner with them here at WorkDefined. We trust them and you should too. Check them out at isolvedhcm.com.

[00:22:26] Seize that this is like all kinds and you can use it and you can even say that you are using it, but you don't have to say who you are seeing. So I have one case that actually is a biotech company. We're actually helping them increase the usage.

[00:22:42] So they have only psychotherapists and psychologists and we see only 3%. So I said, well, you guys have to flush this out. It doesn't matter for you because it's just the usage rate that you're paying anyway, but let's have more variability and show that there's...

[00:23:01] You can use this without telling anyone who you're going to see because Stichnitis is around. 100%. And it's real. It's real. And you don't want to, you know, out of maybe 10 psychologists,

[00:23:15] it's easy to figure out if you're seeing someone and then it's a hush-hush and nobody talks about it. So if in an environment in an office they've shown that there's 50% more usage if a colleague says they used it. Yeah.

[00:23:30] So it's super important that they are not afraid of it and say, did you use the Wellbeing Hub? But we are also just trying really hard to remind them that they have credits and also that there's a new professional on board.

[00:23:45] We just added two more nutritionists and trying to get to the end user, which is a little bit hard in your GTBR world. Right. We are looking at some ideas to do that. Well, the company would have to turn over communications and allow you to communicate to them.

[00:24:03] Yeah, no. And they'd have to have the permission of the employees to be able to do that. It depends on the company, but some of them are just like, no, we're not handing you the English. Right. No, that's fair. That's fair. That's fair. So two things.

[00:24:18] You mentioned credits. So I want to explore or understand kind of that. And the second thing is I want to talk a little bit about what you do talk a little bit about reactive versus proactive. Yeah. And so take us into those two walls.

[00:24:34] Yeah, so credits are just the kind of the note that the company sends out. They're going to be taping 10 like police forces are paying more than a regular retail companies paying three. You know, it's all diverse.

[00:24:51] So we don't come in with any claims that this should be X, Y or Z. We say the professionals demanded to be three or more. So we're listening to the professionals there and the company really listens to those arguments.

[00:25:08] So we if somebody is doing poorly, the professional will flag that that person needs more credit and that goes to the HR manager. Sometimes it's by name, but some most of the time it's just anonymous and they trust the professional in that respect.

[00:25:27] So we're working with a hospital and you know the status of our hospitals. So we're continuously giving added credits to people there, which is not a very nice story to hear. But that's that's the case. Well, we do a lot. Is some of that COVID related? Sorry.

[00:25:44] It's some of that. It's not just COVID related. It's just. And there's so many problems in the hospitals and we're not we're just kind of silently not talking about it. It feels right. Do you feel like we're talking about it? Yeah, we talk a lot now. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:04] Horses are horrible. So everywhere. Yeah. And we just what was we're talking about it like in the news talking about it or not talking about 10 years of a plan.

[00:26:16] Yeah, it's probably the same. I mean, I would I would hope I assume I hope that the administrators in those organizations are. I don't know that they are but yeah, we it's a lot of complaining and not a lot of solutions. Yeah.

[00:26:35] So the credits are driven by the the person on the other end that basically says, actually we can get this done in two or they get in and go.

[00:26:46] This is this is going to take at least six or eight or 10 whatever the bit is before I even can unravel to know what it's actually going to take. Okay. Okay.

[00:26:57] Well, on that same breath, as you're entering what happens if the therapist says we're going to need six for person a and HR says yeah, we can only do four. Well, I don't think we've had that problem. I think that's not that the bad company to work for.

[00:27:21] I guess so the APs right now are you know that you finish your credits, the competition is there. You finish your credits and then the the AP will say oh you will have to find a new psychologist.

[00:27:36] So we will never kick anybody out but they have to bring the credit card in. You know, that's right. But we haven't had that problem yet that the HR says no.

[00:27:48] If they're working with a provider that they feel like they're getting that it's working out and they're getting something out of there. They're not going to want it to stop.

[00:27:58] No, we've acted everyone and of course you're not going to endlessly pay to a nutritionist so it's usually a psychologist right? Right. Right. But I want to say on the note of resources in the mental health pandemic that we're in.

[00:28:15] We do need to think about their health as well so we are really here also we have support for them. The professionals as well. So if they help. They're consuming all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the proactive reactive tell us a little bit about the.

[00:28:36] So what I've heard through working with all these professionals that you know if you ask them how many people are seeing you for a very long time and how many are not.

[00:28:49] So it's, it's, you know, I don't have a, you know, a researched ratio but many of them are saying sometimes I can just help people with one session. Right.

[00:29:00] And they're going to sleep better. I only tell them that these are all natural feelings that they have and they should not worry about the feelings and just breathe a little bit and talk to me again if they have overwhelmed them in another setting or something like that.

[00:29:16] So it's just like I have one user study. Of course we don't have access to the people that are getting help but I have one because I know that person and it was, it was related to the volcano activity here.

[00:29:28] And as the whole town had been moved, the person just had family in that town, but was really affected by it. Had to help out and was very stressed. And, and that person said I just needed one session to understand that this was all normal.

[00:29:47] If you don't get that talk that is normal to have stressed feelings, they can turn into lack of sleep or anxiety, change of behavior and get really, really sick. So it's super important to try and that's why I'm proud of the 25% usage.

[00:30:05] It isn't about a lot of sessions per person. It's just about the access to talk to someone. And you know people are not calling anymore. You know, they've just researched that eight minutes of talking to a friend actually gives you a lot of calm and relaxation.

[00:30:26] Just talking to a friend and not alone. So we're leaving this behind and I don't want necessarily everybody to see a professional. I would love for people to start calling their friends. I think that was helpful.

[00:30:40] And I think the company should actually take that on and just, you know, make the call to your friend and feel better. It's funny as you say that thinking when to last time I just picked the phone up. I know. Did the same thing.

[00:30:56] Yeah, not even and I'm not talking like zoom right like just done hitting somebody on or text like when did I just say, you know what? Let's just call somebody without the text first first first. Last, last first time in years.

[00:31:12] We should get those numbers of calls decreasing. I mean, right? And how often do you answer the phone if you don't know the number? You know, zero, right? Yeah. Russian roulette. We don't want to say it right. But it might be somebody interesting.

[00:31:31] You know, we were supposed to learn about tech on this call. And now I'm second. They're seeing my, my day to day. I am therapy. I'm learning a bunch of stuff. I'm a little hot right now. I wouldn't be in this job. Yeah, of course.

[00:31:54] I'm an amazing program team, but I love tech. I mean, I love it. I love being able to browse and Google my things to the end than the API. Now the AI now and everything. It's amazing. So you're using Google lens? No, I'm not doing that. Right.

[00:32:17] You are using Google lens. No, no. I'm not doing that. I'm just going to Google, Google's go to Google play or go to the Google store. Download it. Yeah. What you, well, basically it's attached to results search results. Oh yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Sorry.

[00:32:35] I thought you told us to take a yes. Now Google lens. You take a picture of something like a spider. I'm used to it. Yeah. Sorry. No glasses. No, no, no, no. Google glass. Yeah. My eyes company from Denmark. Have you heard about that? Yeah.

[00:32:51] No, it's part of the, I think it's part of chat to be now. So I, it just such a wonderful story. It's like, it's probably six years old now that you could pick up, you would sign up for network for people that were blind.

[00:33:06] And then they would just push a button on their phone and the one that was available with answer and be their eyes. So they would hold their phone. And I would say, oh the tax, the bus coming stay away from the curb back up to steps

[00:33:23] or genius and I could say, Oh, the milk is running out. Don't drink that one. You know, so simple. So simple. Just genius. Yeah. And I think it's now part of the chat to D.P. kind of when you can talk to the phone. Right.

[00:33:43] That is so cool. We got to get back to you. I took us off track buying questions always important for us because it was practitioners to listen to the show. What should they be asking of you or providers like yourself?

[00:33:59] What you can probably get pulled into different questions that probably that you don't care about, like how much does this cost? What should they be asking you? They should be asking on the grounds of their information about what they're

[00:34:15] doing right now, which usually is not existing when we come in. Right. How it's used and how the usage is because the current solutions are either very little used or paid quite heavily like calm and all these headspace apps that are not being used either.

[00:34:32] So, you know, be ready for the meeting and then ask me the questions of usage. And then secondly, I would think security, you know, are people sure that their information is not going anywhere to a database or meta or whatever? Right.

[00:34:52] That would be the second question I would think. And the third question is how do you measure, you know, the if people are getting better? Yeah. Do you do you blend? Not that you're using a synonym, but do you use privacy and security simultaneously?

[00:35:11] Well, because they mean different things. They are. But security is what I think is that I'm responsible for. So privacy can be, you know, where you take the session. I can't be responsible that somebody sees who you're talking to.

[00:35:30] But we try to remind people about thinking about privacy. But I take care of that nobody knows the second name of the professional when you're email, text and, you know, I never mix sensitive information so that you can connect the ones to two together. Right.

[00:35:48] And then every single professional is an asylum and they get a very secure workstation for their material. Question about the along the buying process. So earlier you had said that HR will go and pitch it to the CEO and they just don't know how to do it.

[00:36:10] What is the way that they should be pitching? And I know you've answered this throughout the conversation, but just so we have in one spot, if I'm an HR, an HR leader, CHRO, I'm going to the CEO and saying look, I've been through this, I've spoken with

[00:36:24] this company. I think we need this. This is why. What is that story they need to tell? Three points really. It's, this is good for business and the ROI numbers. This is good for our line managers which are taking on all these

[00:36:42] conversations and many of them cannot do it or some of them take them home and really look at it. And third, this is good for recruitment because the young people are going to ask this.

[00:36:57] These three are like the key but we try to kind of help them with understanding what the problem is in the company. We try to say, okay, I think this could help and maybe for example, communication problem that the young ones have if you

[00:37:11] have a big group of Gen Z, we might want to, you know, over extend a lot of coaches that are working on that and then the line managers can say, hey, I want you to see someone on the

[00:37:22] car hub but I would want you to see somebody that works with communication skills. So we try to kind of help them with more arguments than less but we always have these on hand. Yeah, what I love about that, William, you're probably like

[00:37:38] this as well is that she went right to the business side. It wasn't just this is good. It's good for human nature. It's good for humanity after all valid points. We all know that and we all believe. Well, you've got to, you're climbing up the mountain of

[00:37:56] historical failure with EAPs. So EAPs have been a lot round for fucking 300 years. Who cares? But they've also been historically not used. Yes. And so leading, right, leading with the business and then behind that and say, hey, listen, it's not like we haven't had

[00:38:15] some of these programs before. We have had some of these programs from the problem with them is we haven't been able to drive adoption. We haven't worked with a partner that that's the they lead with adoption again. It's a features and a feature if no one uses it.

[00:38:33] So a service isn't a service if no one uses it. This is a game of consumption and usage. And so if you have a provider like yourself that basically says, listen, we can have the greatest communications expert or psychologist, et cetera, work with you.

[00:38:52] But if you don't know that they're available, which is one thing that communications from benefits to employees, if they don't know they have it available to them, that's a fail. Or if they don't consume the service, that's a fail. Yeah.

[00:39:06] And what we do as well as let's say it's in a hold pattern in the company. We just leave the conversation and say, hey, you will probably have an incident that the AP will not solve. Just call us just we're here.

[00:39:21] We'll get you the professional that you need. And we've had that they are just right. Okay, you're you're you're just speaking to the choir here. It's not working because like, you know, they're bringing something to the AP and they're saying no, no, no, we can't

[00:39:36] deal with this because they are not, you know, it's a lunch basically. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, last question on for me today. And this is this is I think more for my own knowledge than anything. I forget the benefits that I have from previous

[00:39:57] employers that I still have. They still send me, you know, whether it's it's a flexible spending accounts that I have 500 literally $170 some dollars since 2006, I think is in there. I have never used it. I don't know how to use it.

[00:40:14] But every month they send me a thing that says, hey, here's how you use it at some point, I will use it right. Yeah. But direct mail right to me at my house is the best way for me to understand.

[00:40:28] And along with that, there are actually fidelity just send something which had something around mental health and because we do what we do, I looked at it. But it was there. I would not have thought about that in any other fashion.

[00:40:44] Like I wouldn't have looked at it in an email if it was a text, I would have blocked it as spam. But they just sent it. It was there on my counter when I came home. Yeah. And it was all about mental health and how to, you

[00:40:57] know, how to, you know, well being and stuff like that. And this is from fidelity. I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool. And could you easily access the services? Yeah. Well, if I need it, yeah, I mean, I don't know how to,

[00:41:10] I mean, because I don't use them anymore. It's just an old account that literally has my money to sit there. But I'm curious like what is, and I know it's going to be different here than it will be in Europe.

[00:41:24] But I'm curious, what is that communication to help drive engagement? What do you do there? Yeah. So basically you have to have a buy-in from, you know, they wouldn't buy us unless they have a buy-in. Right, right. So we launch with the whole company.

[00:41:41] Usually it's the CEO that says we're opening this up for you guys. And we see a peak usage. People have been waiting for something. And then when you've used it, we can communicate a little bit with you. But we're, you know, this is not easy.

[00:41:56] We're doing a lot of things. We're sending posters and flyers and things. People are working remote. How do you reach them without knowing their email? So we help the HR managers to send out stuff. We also say let's do a nutrition week,

[00:42:12] and then we'll have one of the webinars, the professionals do a webinar, and then we'll add some, you know, nutrition. And then we see that goes up. But basically, since it's 50% psychologists, it's just the actual knowing that you have access to it.

[00:42:27] And it's a link on whatever HR system. Super easy, but you can see as soon as you've booked, you've moved into another secure environment that you're speaking with a professional. And I guess, I guess it's a luxury problem right now for us.

[00:42:44] But I know going into 10,000 people companies will have to probably do a little more. And we're thinking about very clever moves, I think. And right now in the dev department, then I'm not going to tell you right now, but hopefully it's going to work.

[00:43:00] I think one of the things that hopefully, I mean, you probably have it on your roadmap already, or you're already doing it. It's if somebody hasn't logged in, let's say in a week, it's a do you know communication around.

[00:43:17] Yeah, but you can ask them about the benefits of this stuff. Yeah. Well, do you? Inside the system? If they're inside, they've claimed the credits. Yes. But the rest. So my kind of... You're trying to get the other folks. Yeah, I got it.

[00:43:39] So my North Star is the Vietnamese truck driver, a driving recycling bus. How do we get him to use that? The company has it. It's provided. Other people are using it. He's not using it. He might not even know it's available.

[00:43:57] I don't know if he is, but I really want to be able to say he can access it very easily. Right. Without it being a small link in a SharePoint site somewhere where they've got to click through to find it, right? It's just there.

[00:44:13] No, it's just one click and then you have the whole... Well-being hub. One. And then it's very easy to use on the phone, but we have lots of problems. So we have both online and offline services. The online is easy, but if you think about it,

[00:44:32] how does a hospital provide a space for the nurse to do? So 80% of the hospital is going out to see their professionals, right? All the remote companies are doing just remote. So we'll be able to see for different sectors how it's going.

[00:44:52] And we told the hospital, you guys really have to make sure that they have a private room. And they were like, of course, we don't even have the private rooms to tell somebody that somebody has died. I mean, they're just in a crisis.

[00:45:08] So they had to fall back and say, yes, they just have to go outside of the hospital to do this. We need to accommodate for different... Like we might be working with a big construction company that moves people around, right?

[00:45:22] Where do these men, almost all men take that call in the car? Or do we set up in the city close? Do we move them around the professionals? So it's a lot of things to make sure access is available. Right. I know Ryan feels the same way.

[00:45:45] This has been absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much for your time and your intelligence. And what you've built is just... Lights out fantastic. Thank you.