Getting Inclusive AF with Christina Blacken

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to Inclusive AF with Jackie Clayton and Katie Van Horn.

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Jackie.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Katie.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing in Arizona?

[00:00:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It has to be what, 200 degrees?

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_03]: It's about 200, but I want to actually have you refer to me as the Crazy Cat Lady, actually

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_03]: the Crazy Cat and Dog Lady or single, whatever my name is now.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I think it means doesn't care about America child, Liz.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Pet owner.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: To be more inclusive.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_03]: But all of those things, but still has a vote.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But it doesn't count, I think.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't count.

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't count as much as yours because you have babies.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think actually yours counts as double because you have babies, but then they take

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_03]: some away because you're not white.

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, I, it's, you know, it's a whole thing.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of math involved with JD Bantz.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So 24 has been great.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So far so good.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Inclusive AF Podcast.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So what that great intro, Jackie, how is everything going for you today?

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I have to say every morning that I wake up as a is a good day.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be a good day, but I can tell you like it really has felt like the

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Twilight Zone lately.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: It has been surreal.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Those of you who've listened to our last episode and we were talking about

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_02]: people going back on their word and then going back on their go back is

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: happening.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We're seeing some things, but I would like to tell everybody this has

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_02]: been after the first week after Kamala Harris was announced that they

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: were going to be the Democratic nomination.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And this week we have seen Southeast Asian for Harris, white women for

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Harris, white dudes for Harris, you know, the women for Harris, the

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Boulay has been activated and I have to imagine if you don't know

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: like Google it, but I have to imagine some of the DEI training

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_02]: that we have been doing in the last couple of years actually sunk in

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: because we've never seen anything like it.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we have to give a little bit of a clap to all of our DEI

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: practitioners that had to work through that because it sunk in like

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: for the first time, we saw people saying, yeah, we are white dudes

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's okay.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And we can still support Harris and we need to help together.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And the other part that has been giving me hope has been

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_02]: people saying and recognizing.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But once again, we're asking all of these black women to come in

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and save the situation that happened so many times for people

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: to acknowledge that in the world has been great.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Now if they can start acknowledging that at work, I mean, we're

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: getting closer though, but I mean, North Star, right?

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: That's just North Star goal.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: We will get there.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I have hope after this week.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I will tell you, you know, I was on the white women for

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Harris call and that was repeated probably five or six

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: different times by pretty much every speaker acknowledging the

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_03]: fact that black women help us to organize this black women

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: helped us to get here.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, and exactly we're saying the burden that we've

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_03]: always put on black women.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_03]: We need you to acknowledge that.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And also we need to come together.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_03]: But I want to keep this conversation going, but I also

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_03]: want to introduce our guests.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So Christina would love for you to introduce yourself and

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: share a load about who you are all that good stuff.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And then we can continue talking politics if you'd like

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_03]: or wherever else we want to go.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm Christina Black and I live long walks in the beach.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I live in Brooklyn, New York.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And originally from Utah, which is a long conversation for another day,

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: but I've been in New York City for 14 years.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And I run a company called the new quo, which does leadership

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: development and behavior change work really focused on using

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_01]: neuroscience and narrative techniques and equity principles

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: tell people build deeper trust and collaboration in their

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: relationships.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I've mostly worked with corporations, nonprofits and

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: universities.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And over the last five years, I've trained 14,000 leaders

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: across nine industries.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And I've designed a change model, which essentially helps

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: people to disrupt automatic patterns of negative stories when

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: it comes to bias and change and difference so that they can,

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, navigate change in a more effective aspirational

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and collaborative way.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And we're in a time right now where we need some of that

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: more than we ever have.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And seeing all the news and the hope, the hope scrolling I've

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: been doing the last week with seeing the new narratives

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and stories that people are creating about the future

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: of democracy and how we can collectively organize and how

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: leadership is something we all can take a part of has been

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: really affirming to me.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm hoping that that just leads us to better outcomes

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: because we need them.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: We're in unprecedented times.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, when does it stops?

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been unprecedented since 9-11 at least.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's been unprecedented for how many decades now.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's interesting to see where things are going to evolve.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_03]: So I want to touch on what Jackie just said and say 14,000

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_03]: leaders.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So you are part of this change and you are part of, you know,

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_03]: the work that is happening now and the kind of everyone coming

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: together and actually acknowledging that we need to come

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: together to make good happen and to beat down evil.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know how else to describe that because it truly

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_03]: is just evil that we're seeing and that we're facing right now.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: So the new quo, first of all, where'd you come up with that name?

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was sitting at a lunch with an ex of mine.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: This was in like 2014.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And I kept saying, oh, the thing I want to build is about

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: changing the status quo and how we're essentially approaching

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: it when we're thinking about it.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are throwing words around.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think he was the one that said the new quo

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: possibly.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, wait, that's got a little ring to it.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: The new quo.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Because we're about changing things and we're creating this new

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: status quo.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I quickly Googled to see what websites, because you always

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: got to check the URLs, you know, people be squatting on the

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: URLs.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't available.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I grabbed it right away.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was all the way back in 2014 at the earlier stages

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: of my career before I was an entrepreneur.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, just stuck.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's always been a pretty accurate expression of the

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_01]: things that I care about and the work that I want to do

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: in the world with just helping people to understand the

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: status quo is changeable.

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And usually storytelling is one of our fastest ways to do it.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm going to ask a question.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Totally off topic.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll get back because it was in your bio.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you know so many ways to use Jello?

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to forget.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to know too.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: We need to talk about that.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we'll get into it in a second.

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is probably an old joke about Utah, but Utah one point.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: The state food was Jello.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it was because of the amount that people were

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: consuming.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's just like a cheap and malleable food for

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_01]: big families or something, but we had for a long time, we were

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: like the top consumers of Jello in the country.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I used to make fun of that because I would show up

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: to like classmate events and people would have these wild

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_01]: looking Jello castle rolls with savory pieces and stuff in

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: them.

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, this, I love creativity.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I love DIY, but this is going too far.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_01]: We're pushing the limits of what we should be doing with our

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: food right now.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's just kind of a funny nod to the quirkiness of

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_01]: different parts of the culture that's in Utah.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they're still consuming Jello as much as

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: they did, but I'm probably keep saying that till the day I

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_01]: am no longer on this planet because I just thought it

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: was funny.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And at some point offline, we'll get more into the

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: conversation with Jello now.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, we'll bring it back.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, I'm thinking so I come from a big Catholic

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: family and I think we had a similar situation where it

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: was.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: What Jello can do and what you can add to it to make

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_03]: kids eat it.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so I think it's absolutely that like the big

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: family piece is definitely a part of that.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_03]: But so when you think about, you know, kind of the

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: work that you are doing and how you actually change

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_03]: the story or help people tell their story.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_03]: What are the things that come to mind?

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Or what are the things that really help people that are

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03]: new to this work or people that are new to thinking about

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_03]: equity and inclusion and how to kind of frame that in

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: their own heads with their own story?

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a really great question.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I really start with the concept that leadership is

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: just the act of storytelling around goals.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And then when people understand that they're like,

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: well, I'm doing that all the time because you tell

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: stories constantly.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the status 65% of all of our daily communication is

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: the story, whether it's with family or friends or

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: lovers or coworkers.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: You're always using stories to model change and to

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: demonstrate events and experiences.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I start there.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You have stories are already telling and which one of

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_01]: these stories are helping you to move things further

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: along and to create better understanding and trust.

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And which of these stories might be getting in the

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: way of your beliefs around leadership and power?

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Because we all have sets of narratives we picked up

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01]: from family and media and education and schooling.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And some of those can be inaccurate and not necessarily

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the full picture of history or culture and how it works.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I help people to really examine first their

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: self narratives.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So what are the narratives they believe about leadership

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and power, where they come from?

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: How are they showing up in their current decision

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_01]: making and goal setting and communication?

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And then also getting them to attune to other

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: people's stories and ask better questions so

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: they can have a better picture of the people

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_01]: they're interacting with.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And because typically we project whatever stories

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_01]: we believe onto people based on their appearance,

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: how they carry themselves, how they speak,

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01]: what they may wear and those stereotype stories

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: can really create a lot of issues in groups as we know.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I walk people through that model.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of what I call it is awareness,

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_01]: attunement and then action.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you have awareness of your own stories?

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: How do you attend other stories?

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And then how do you create a new narrative

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and vision around goals in a group so that everybody

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: feels brought in like they're actually being

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: delegated and improved and supported in the right ways?

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And then using that process over and over again,

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: because stories are always being developed and made.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We have this automatic process in our bodies,

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: prior from evolution of just putting things

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_01]: in a narrative format so we can recall them

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and pass them on.

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that process is always ongoing and we can refine it

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and get better at it and use it as a tool

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: for better understanding and collaboration

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_01]: instead of disruption and negativity,

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: which we see right now in the political sphere.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: There are people who are using narrative to spend lives,

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to create myths, to further perpetuate stereotypes,

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_01]: which leads to measurable, pretty significant loss

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: in terms of life, in terms of trust,

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: in terms of resources.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So getting people to do the positive side of storytelling,

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_01]: which is self-insight, awareness,

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and then persuasion is really the work that I'm doing.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And teaching people that anybody,

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_01]: regardless of title status appearance,

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: has power through the types of narratives they create

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_01]: around their ideas and their goals.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's really important.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of times when we're talking about imposter syndrome,

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but then when we're talking about imposter syndrome,

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_02]: but then for black and brown folks,

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of times it can be internal stereotyping

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: of themselves based on the narrative

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that they've been fed, based in their communities.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was curious how,

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_02]: when you get started, I imagine there are some people

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_02]: that may not realize that they have

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: some of these stories.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_02]: How do you help navigate that piece,

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: like with the self-identification or self-awareness

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_02]: within stories?

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I think practice is really important.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of my trainings, I design them

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: to be engaging and dynamic and entertaining,

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and also in real time they're practicing the concepts.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So one of them is essentially learning about

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the story of other people's names.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And when they're doing that in real time,

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: they're kind of examining some of the assumptions

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and ideas they may have attached to people

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: they've known for a very long time.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, I didn't know this fact about the history

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and your family chose this and your ancestry is that.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And I learned all of that from the simple question

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of learning the story of your name.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And so my sessions, I really want people

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_01]: to practice things in real time because

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: they challenge a lot of the time in equity work

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: as it feels very abstract and it feels like

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: it's an external thing.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like these boogeymen and these bad people,

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: but really it's a process of personal development.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you become more conscious

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and aware of the ways you show up in conversation,

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: the ways that you interact with people

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and then do it in real time as you're learning the concepts.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So they're like, oh wow, okay I get that.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: If I ask more meaningful questions

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm more curious and open,

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I can learn stories about people

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and also examine my own before I make decisions,

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_01]: before I move to the next step.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I see that being the most effective.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Like an example is I did a project with Nextdoor

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: which is a large social media platform.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: They helped to connect neighbors across the country

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and they had gotten a lot of backlash

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_01]: around people profiling their neighbors on the platform.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: They'd be like, hey who's that black man in a sweater?

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, Karen, that is your neighbor

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_01]: who has lived here for 40 years.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Why are you acting scared?

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And so they were really concerned.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Like how do we arm our moderators

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: with techniques and tools to manage conversation

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in a more effective way.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And some of the pieces of the training that I designed

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_01]: that we ran for three years was them examining self-stories

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: around how do they react to change and difference.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And how does that affect how they moderate content

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and also what are some tools

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: to deescalate microaggressions and conflict.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And we got a lot of really great feedback

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: where people were like, this is the first time

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I've ever thought about how am I affecting this issue

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and doing it in a way that feels aspirational

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and positive versus shameful.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Where it's like, oh I can show up in a better way

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and create a neighborhood that feels more civil

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: when I'm conscious of how I'm entering these conversations

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: when I'm bringing to them

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and how I'm also moderating them.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think connecting that piece of your inner stories

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: can help create better outcomes versus shaming people

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: is such a powerful step.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Because most people avoid the work because they're afraid of shame

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're afraid of blame.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, it's not about shaming and blaming.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's how do you reach your fullest potential as a leader,

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: as an individual by examining those stories

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that might get in the way of how you interact with people

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and doing it in a way that doesn't feel like

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a detrimental labeling thing.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Like all of us can do that work no matter what our backgrounds are

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: or no matter what we look like.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like so many people do feel that shame and blame.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting because that's part of the narrative

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and I think part of why we've seen such a backlash.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Part, I mean there's a million reasons it's not just one

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: but part of it has to do with you hear of that shame

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and blame or you don't like America

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: or you are making us feel bad because we're white

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and men are straight and now it's all of our fault.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's why that was like so powerful this past week

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_02]: when you saw people like sitting in their identities

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and being able to be like, no, we're not, nobody's shaming you.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like you're bringing up these things of where it is.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like it's interesting that you said,

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I love the example of next door because you're working with moderators

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: that were dealing with like it wasn't even their neighborhood.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like they, it wasn't them doing it.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But they had to get on top of it before you see like a full riot

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_02]: because of profiling on this app.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I imagine that people were really surprised

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: of how did they internalize that?

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: What was something that, what do you think was the best outcome of that

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and what do you think was one of the shocking things

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that you might have picked up on maybe any surprises

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that came out of those three years

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and with so much as you can share, I don't want you to share any.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So one of the interesting things is their moderator model

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: was actually by volunteers.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So the people who first started their neighborhood forum

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_01]: became the lead moderator first

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and then they have internal moderation teams

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that then check the content from there.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And so most volunteer moderators won didn't feel like leaders.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So that was interesting where they're like,

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what impact I'm going to have is just a little on me.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I can really step in and manage this.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So there was a significant shift in people feeling actual leadership

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: like, oh, I have a way I can make an impact

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_01]: even as someone who doesn't normally consider myself a leader.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that shift is important because we have this old

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: antiquated narrative that leadership is about title status appearance

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and a certain amount of money.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So people felt more commitment and accountability to leaning change

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: in their neighborhood conversations.

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: The other part that was fascinating to me is so we had around 43,000

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: people sign up for it and about a third completed the full training.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And half of them were moderates and conservatives,

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: which was shocking to me because it was by volunteer.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't required to do the training because this is a volunteer

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: moderation role.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But I was surprised that, you know,

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_01]: people who aren't already kind of bought into the idea of equity were like,

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_01]: let me see what this is about.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: How am I going to be more of a moderator in somebody who facilitates

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_01]: respectful conversation?

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think because it was positioned as we all want the outcome

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: of a respectful civil neighborhood where we feel safe and everybody

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_01]: can agree on that.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And the tools to get us there is to learn how to reduce the ways

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_01]: that we might have bias in our conversations,

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: the ways that we might show up in these instances so we can

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: have better outcomes.

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that was appealing to people that didn't expect

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_01]: quite honestly to be open to it.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the third thing that was surprising for me is people were

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_01]: saying, oh, this work that we're learning around relationship

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_01]: dynamics and psychology and bias and story,

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I could use this in my family.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I should use this in my dynamics in my personal life because

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: we're not taught how to navigate differences in general.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we definitely aren't taught how to have healthy

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: relationships across the board.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: That's something people learn through trial and error.

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And then maybe personal development and therapy and whatever

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: other choices you make.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But people are like, wow, I might take these tools around

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_01]: microaggressions and conflict escalation and narrative making

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and use this in my personal life.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And I wish people could see this outside of a moderation role

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_01]: because this is something you can do whether you're a

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_01]: moderator or not.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think those three things were really interesting.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we had Stanford University evaluate the work.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And they saw that people changed their behavior for six

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_01]: months past the course on the platform.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So we were seeing real change behavior over time.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So for me, it's the small tweaks, you know,

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_01]: giving people tools on how you can show up slightly

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: differently in terms of questions, conversation,

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_01]: communication tactics, storytelling tactics.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And it feels accessible in a way that anybody of any

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: background can do it.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: All those things were really powerful and it gave me hope

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that this sort of bigger societal work we're doing

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: around our relationship dynamics or group dynamics

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: can change because we have never successfully had a

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_01]: multiracial society.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We've never successfully have a multiracial democracy.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And our microcosms of group dynamics are a reflection

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: of that.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think people being able to come into groups

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and be, you know, accountable, positive, proactive

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and trying to create better outcomes was really

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_01]: inspirational for me and really helpful because I

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_01]: think some often people are like, this work doesn't

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: matter.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: People don't care about it.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: They hate it.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's reactionary.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a check on the box.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And all that can definitely be true.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think most people, if you ask them, do you want to

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_01]: have healthy, trusting relationships with people and

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_01]: be able to engage with and communicate with anyone?

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Most people would say, yeah.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I think most people want that skill but they don't

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: realize that this work that's been shamed and

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: falsely maligned is a way to get there.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like really, it's been really, it's scary.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We have, there is a point where there has been

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: some real fear, especially for people doing DEI work.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Am I going to have to do it tomorrow?

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Are we really taking it seriously?

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_02]: What's going to be the overall impact or not being

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: able to see things go to fruition?

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: How have you been able to, I don't want to say

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_02]: make the business case.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But if when things come up or if there has been

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: a fear of pushback for DEI, how are you able,

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_02]: what have you been able to do to help people

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: stay positive if they feed another story about

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: why this is maybe a bad choice?

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've always positioned this work as

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_01]: change management work and leadership work.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think people are always open to that

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: because leadership is never going to go away,

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the function of it.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But baking in DEI principles makes you an effective

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: leader.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Not doing that means you will not be an

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: effective leader.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think when people realize that it's just

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_01]: a best case skill to collaboration, innovation,

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: problem solving, managing groups and conflicts

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: that may come up in it, they're open to it.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_01]: So I just bake it in as a best practice.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the interpersonal communication that we have

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and the ways that DEI can help us to have better

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: outcomes makes people more open.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I think if it's anything that's been a little

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: bit more punitive, so people who come in

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: saying like, hey, we really messed up.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Our culture is jacked.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We are trying to course correct.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Those people tend to have a bigger struggle

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_01]: with committing to this because they see DEI as a

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: separate function and not a core function of a good

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01]: business organization.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And I typically don't tend to work with those clients that much

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: because they're not committing to longer term work

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_01]: or behavior change work.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Because a lot of my programming, it's courses

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and workshops and coaching.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a full program that you go through to create

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: longer term behavior change versus just a one off thing.

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So those organizations were never committed to begin

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_01]: with like even before this moment, you know,

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_01]: in 2020, which I called the black rush because

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_01]: everyone was like, black people help us.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_01]: We're learning about these things.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I was getting so many emails and there was kind of

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: a 50-50 split of people who were like, we need to do

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_01]: this one big thing one time so that we don't look

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_01]: bad in public and so we don't get sued.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And those people, I was like, this is not a good

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: idea.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a good decision.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to change much.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It might actually create more harm.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would turn them down versus people who were

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: like, you know what, we're really interested in

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_01]: incorporating equity principles into all of our

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: business goals.

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_01]: How do we do that?

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_01]: We're really interested in upscaling people's

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: leadership skills before they are in leadership

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: positions.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_01]: How do we do that?

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where this work is more effective and

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: where it lies is like this longer term behavior

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: change work that is just doing good business

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: versus I got to do this because I'm afraid of

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: the public.

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, that's not going to last

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: anyways.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're in that moment now where people

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: are afraid and the ones who are backtracking

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: saw this as a glamor kind of performative

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: thing similar to what we've seen in the

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_01]: environmental sustainability portion of

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_01]: business work where people are like, I'm

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_01]: agreeing, watch this and that so I don't get

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: in trouble with the public.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And then as soon as it gets a little

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_01]: challenging they roll back their

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: sustainability commitments.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I need people to make and connect the

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: dots and understand that whatever choices

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: you're making in your business, whether

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: they're for the right reasons or not do

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: have an impact.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you aren't committing to long

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: term change or probably creating more harm.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Katie, I've been monopolizing the

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: conversation.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't want you to, I'm sorry.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I'm listening.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_03]: I was fascinated.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I love this concept of just

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_03]: baking stuff in because I think that's

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_03]: also something that, you know, being in HR

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_03]: we have so many of these compliance

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: trainings that we have folks do.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And so when, you know, HR is introducing

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: DEI training they go, oh, this is

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_03]: just another compliance thing versus

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_03]: no, this is just part of leadership

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_03]: training.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_03]: This is part of being a good team

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_03]: member.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: This is, you know, part of just being a

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_03]: part of this group or this team or

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_03]: whatever you want to call it.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I think that's the part

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_03]: that also I love that you called that

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_03]: out because I think that's just such

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_03]: an important piece to the puzzle that

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_03]: people don't think about.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I would love to shift a little bit

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_03]: just talk about, you know, the

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the uproar or the

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_03]: thoughts that you might have

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_03]: on the Olympics and the opening

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_03]: ceremony and all of the kind of

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_03]: I loved it.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Loved it.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Love the ceremony.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Ten tens across the board.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: The best one I've ever seen.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It was so, I don't know, I like it.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's funny. So I caught it at

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: the end. So I got home from like a dinner

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: or something, turn on the TV and

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the first thing I saw

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: was the masked guy that was carrying

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: the torch he's running all through the city

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: on the roof. So I'm like, what's going on?

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Who stole the torch? I'm like, what's happening?

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I had no context.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm watching this. I'm like, okay, now they've got this cool little still

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: horse going down the scene

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and then they have like these

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_01]: dancers of fireworks and then I got to see Celine

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm like, oh, this is getting good.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So I ended up going online

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and I saw the outrage, the, you know,

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: evangelical claim that this was disrespectful

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: to the Last Supper

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: because of the fashion show that happened

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was really actually the Greek Dionysus dinner.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So they were missing cultural references.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is why equity is important.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_01]: DEI actually helps people to

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: expand the set of stories that they know

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_01]: about culture and history so that they

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_01]: can respond to change in difference more accurately.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? If people had a more

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: accurate picture of French history,

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_01]: they would know that all of the art

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and all the performance art across the city was an expression

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: of their history, how they

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: fought against erotocracy,

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: how they just fought against a really extreme

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01]: right wing group

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: recently and why they're celebrating

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: inclusivity and genuinely

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: all the different demographic expressions

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: of French people. And that's what the whole

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: story was about. And so I was like,

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: oh, this makes sense now that people were confused

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: because they didn't have a historical

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: context, they didn't have that cultural context

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and they think the world revolves

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: around the US. Sorry y'all it doesn't.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't even thinking about us. They were like, this is cute.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to try to celebrate Marie Antoinette,

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, and her

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: heading with metal music

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: as a marrying to it, which was

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_01]: really interesting. I also

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: went and watched part of the documentary

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: about how it was made afterwards. It's on

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Peacock

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was interesting to hear that they were like, we

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_01]: really want people to see

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that we want to celebrate what makes

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_01]: France different and we have to look at

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody who's

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: a French person and you know regardless

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_01]: of disability or, you know, sexual

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_01]: expression, gender identity,

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: race. So I think they did

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: an incredible job. Now as a viewer

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: if you were there in person on the

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_01]: river, that might have been a little challenging

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: because it was raining and all you could see

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_01]: was the boats going by and

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: you only saw the performances on a

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: little like, you know, jump

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Otron. It was definitely made for

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_01]: TV first and I think

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the TV experience was incredible

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but being in person, I would have been a little

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_01]: tight while sitting there in the rain and I'm like

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: we can't even see nothing because it's spread

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_01]: out. Yes.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But the thing is

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_03]: even when the rain like I did love just

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_03]: going back and looking

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_03]: at the highlights too of like all of the cool

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_03]: things and then all of the

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_03]: meaning of all of it actually because

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of those references

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_03]: either so to be able to see, oh

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that's not a horse of the apocalypse.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_03]: That's actually, you know, whoever

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and some of these things that were

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_03]: just so ridiculous now like

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03]: okay and again to your point

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_03]: guess what folks it's

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_03]: not all about Christianity and it's not

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_03]: all about the United States. It's

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: weird. Also I had such a great muscle

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01]: to build because I tell people

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and so one of the things I talk about is

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_01]: narrative intelligence. So it's understanding

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: how story effects bias, belief and behavior

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and also being aware of your internal stories as well

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_01]: as external and this

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: response so people who have a more

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: amplified response to change

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and difference typically have a stronger

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: reaction in their amygdala they think it's

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely a threat and that can

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: lead to so many inaccuracies and missteps

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you're missing out on really great

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: collaboration, conversation, creativity

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and innovation when you are always jumping

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_01]: to the worst case story or the worst

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: case scenario about what's happening

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and so I think that's an important

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: reminder here where it's like wait let's take

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: a beat. Let's not jump to the most

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: derogatory

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: stereotype story I associate with this event

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_01]: what are other things that could explain it? Let's expand

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: the set of narratives that we know

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: about this thing before we make a decision

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: before we say something and that process

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_01]: slowing that down for people because

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it's an automatic process and it's one

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_01]: based in fear and one based

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: in survival is

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: such a big part of the work because I think

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: when people slow that process down and don't jump

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: to a stereotype and then jump

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to anger and fear they're more likely to be able

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01]: to have better conversation and collaboration

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and now we spent how much energy do we waste

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: explaining stuff

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_01]: to people and reducing

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: their iron anger when that could have been

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: spent having better conversation and dialogue

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_01]: about what this means and what it inspired

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you know we waste I don't think people also

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_01]: know the cost of

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: bias and the cost of

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: distrust and it's literally

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_01]: stalled innovation it keeps us from

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: solving problems it doesn't help

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: us to get to the safety that we

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: want because when we have lots of distrust it's very hard

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_01]: to feel safe so it doesn't fix anything

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: it just slows everything down and makes it

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: worse so people who are defaulting

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: into that pattern out of fear are actually

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: creating more instability in their lives

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and more unsafe conditions

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: than they are actually creating that stability

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and security that they're craving

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: so I hope people learn from these moments

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: where they're like yeah you know it's okay

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: to take a beat it's okay to not always

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: attack and try to police and control

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: the things you don't understand maybe

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_01]: take a beat to try to understand it first

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and also get a passport

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and travel and actually go

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_03]: experience hey you're muted so you can't

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: yell at me right now.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Get a passport

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_03]: and go travel would be my other

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_03]: you know I think that's

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_03]: it's fascinating because I think that's the

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_03]: other piece is that if you start to go

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_03]: look in other countries

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and other places and start to see

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_03]: all of the differences

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_03]: it also just opens your eyes and to your point

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the exhaustion

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_03]: of just having to go

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_03]: let me defend this thing that really

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_03]: isn't mine to defend but I just

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_03]: the ignorance is

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_03]: so startling that you're like

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_03]: how

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: why does it all a why does it always have to be about

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_03]: you but b why does it always

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_03]: have to be the worst story

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: when you see it you say

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_02]: oh that's something new

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: right wonder what that is

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_02]: like leading with curiosity

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: like and I'll take

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll click it one step further

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: what if it was the last suffer

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: like why don't you just

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: accept that maybe somebody

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_02]: sees something in a way

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_02]: different than you

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and try to find out more

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: about what

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Jackie I did hear

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_03]: or see one comment that was like let's be really clear

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_03]: the French would never highlight an Italian

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: artist

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that's hilarious

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: that's very accurate and true

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe that

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: it also points to something I talk about often

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: in my trainings is this idea of a culture

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_01]: of autopilot versus a culture of curiosity

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: because autopilot is

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_01]: immediate assumptions stereotypes

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: fear when you are confronted

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_01]: with changing difference but a culture of curiosities

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: you stop and ask questions

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_01]: first and so the questions might help

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you to assume and or get to a point

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_01]: of oh actually this is unsafe and we need to do something

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_01]: about it or it might be like

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm learning something new this is different

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: this is interesting let's see what

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I can explore and to build on to what you were saying

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_01]: about the passport you know a lot of people don't

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: necessarily have the income to travel but even if you

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: don't books and stories

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and narrative podcasts

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_01]: movies are an incredible way to travel

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and experience other people you know

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a concept called narrative transport

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_01]: which means when you are listening to a story

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: you experience it as if it's firsthand

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and so that's a really great

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: way to explore other cultures and experiences

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and ideas when you expand the set of stories

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: that you're consuming and so I tell

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01]: people often do a story audit you know

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_01]: expand what you're listening to reading

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: watching and curating

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and that can make you more creative it makes you

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: more interesting in conversations it helps you

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to relate to people who are different there's lots

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: of groups and places I've never been but I

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: can damn sure look them up and learn about them

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even have to necessarily get on a plane

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's the first time in human history

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_01]: we've had this much information at our fingertips

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: where before it was just through

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe the leader of your community the

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: pressure their church goer or whatever

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: so we're at a really incredible time of

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: there's not an excuse to not expose yourself

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: to new ideas you have so much ease of

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: access to information it's just

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: feeling like it's a priority and it's

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: something that's beneficial to you I think there are

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: people who have learned not doing

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: new things not being exposed to difference

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: is makes them safer and I

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_01]: fundamentally disagree

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that actually creates a lot of instability

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and why we're facing so many problems

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate that that

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_02]: is really smart because that's

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_02]: what I've seen so often

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I live in Waco, Texas

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_02]: my mother-in-law is here in Waco, Texas

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: it is the home of Dr. Pepper

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a fun fact

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_02]: we were in New York City

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and they went and asked

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_02]: for a Dr. Pepper like at McDonald's

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and they were like we don't have

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Pepper but we have root beer

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: so then it was like two things like

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02]: number one why don't we have number

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Pepper and number two

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_02]: why are you suggesting that root beer is even

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_02]: a close second to Dr. Pepper

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_02]: it was like a brown soda

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: that's not code and

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_02]: she like fell

[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_02]: then we go to the next place and she knows

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to ask for Dr. Pepper so I'm going to

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_02]: ask for sweet tea again we're in the northeast

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and like could not

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: wrap the brain around

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and then immediately

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_02]: wants to go home and how

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_02]: many times have we

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: where that is the opportunity of learning

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and expanding so that you can get

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_02]: you know go some place

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and have that

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: mindset I don't know

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I yeah

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_03]: the caveat to that

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I will say Jackie is when we've been traveling

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_03]: somewhere like in Vietnam and we were there

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_03]: for about two and a half weeks

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_03]: we did go to McDonald's and it was

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_03]: literally I just need something I understand

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and know

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and you know that I

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_03]: all the food there was phenomenal

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and then we found like a Mexican restaurant

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_03]: in no man's land in Vietnam

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_03]: which was also hilarious but

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_03]: McDonald's is always your go to if you can't

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_03]: find what you need you know

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I always ordered Pad Thai

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I was in Barcelona and ordered Pad Thai

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and my husband was like what are you doing

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's not me

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: like where are the top best I was like I don't know

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_02]: it was a panic situation

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_01]: things are the thought for me too this idea

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: it's a false belief

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that ignoring

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_01]: differences and change means that they go away

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_01]: because the only thing guaranteed in life

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_01]: is change we're constantly changing

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean change is inevitable it's

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and you know it's a part of the nature

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the law of nature you know things are always changing

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and regenerating

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: dying and birthing and so there's

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_01]: no resistance to that and I think when people get

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_01]: a healthier relationship to uncertainty

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and change they can have a healthier

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01]: relationship to other people and I think

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: that's the main struggle most humans have

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_01]: is how they react to uncertainty is

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: deep fear and deep anger

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's like well if it's uncertain and different

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_01]: take a beat let's let's get some information

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: first we can make informed decisions

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_01]: instead of knee jerk reactions

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_01]: that lead to just more instability

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and more harm but I think

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that's also

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_03]: your spot on and I think that's also

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_03]: the way that the media

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and certain folks

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_03]: prey on

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_03]: people that are uninformed

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_03]: it is you know let me tell you all the bad

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: things about this thing why we don't want

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_03]: to have any progressive

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: ideas or new types of

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_03]: jobs that we haven't had before or

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_03]: move away from coal or

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_03]: any of these things

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_03]: the fear factor

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_03]: you know

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Jack and I have talked about this a lot

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_03]: of the you assume positive intent but also

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_03]: have to understand the impact of your words

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think that's the piece that's most

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_03]: frustrating right now is the impact of the words

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that people are using

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and the way they're talking about progress

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and innovation and where we need to go

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_03]: to keep the United States

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_03]: at the forefront of so many things

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_03]: it is like well no we either

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_03]: have to go back to the

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_03]: 1800s or

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_03]: that's it we're all going to die and it's all over

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01]: we control all the human rights

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like no you can't do that

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's also this

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_01]: interesting idea that like

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: tend to struggle with the concept

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: we're in a time

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: period where whatever myths

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and narratives that we make can explode

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty quickly and a lot of that

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: is a distraction and I think they don't realize

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_01]: that people in positions of power

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_01]: who want to hoard as much resources

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: as possible have an incentive to create

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_01]: myths that are untrue

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and to blame your problems on others

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: quote unquote or people who are

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: the enemy quote unquote as threat

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: to distract you from the reality of them taking

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_01]: your resources and that's been a strategy

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that's been used for centuries

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and there's like lots of really great books about this

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and the zero sum games that have been created

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01]: in economic and political policy

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_01]: so it's a distraction it's a very old

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_01]: narrative making strategy

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and sometimes I'm like I wish people would just come up with new

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: oppressive tactics it's just getting kind of

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_01]: boring and predictable at this point like

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Rosalda's list with your bigotry at this point

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: if you bebis the same old shtick

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: over and over again like

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the immigrants are taking your things

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the no transgender you know whatever

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_01]: enemy or group that they're pinpointing

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_01]: when in fact if you follow the money

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: you follow the policy it is a very

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_01]: small percentage of privileged

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: elite people typically

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: owner class or you know

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: very wealthy individuals

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_01]: who are making circumstances harder

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_01]: for a lot of people so I'm like

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you know it's a distraction

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you know since before the slave trade but then you also see that like if we

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_02]: actually get together

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_02]: then people are going to take over like if we actually

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: see ourselves

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: as being able to partner and we don't

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_02]: other each other

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_02]: what's going to happen and it is amazing

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that we are still

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: seeing that and I think that's why

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: um

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: like the past week or some of the things

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that we've been seeing lately has been so

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_02]: amazing because you're seeing a

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: slight shift it can that happen

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: for ever I don't know

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but it is good to see a different

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: outcome than what we've seen

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: in the past over and over

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and over so that is

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: positive and I hope it starts

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_02]: the beginning of new

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: narratives and new

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_01]: stories. I think people are seeing

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: you know there's really great

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_01]: people who've written about this before me but the

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: cost of white supremacy

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and sexism and all the isms

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_01]: is on everybody you know and I think that's

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the thing people are realizing like oh this is bad for everybody

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_01]: so it doesn't

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_01]: this isn't good for anyone so why should be

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_01]: upholded why should be protected and

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: people are getting close to literally almost losing

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_01]: their rights to vote in democracy

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and they're like well maybe we shouldn't fight back

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit I'm like you shouldn't have to get to this

[00:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: point of extreme but it

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: takes for people to see that the systems around

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: us isn't just you work hard

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: enough and you pick yourself up by your bootstraps and you'll win

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the game and you'll be fine

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: it's rigged against most people regardless

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: of what they look like and so when people

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: recognize that and see that we need to build

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_01]: new systems, new ways that we relate

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: how we set goals, how we make stuff, how we share resources

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I think people are

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_01]: waking up to that it's been through

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty significant

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: social unrest you know the pandemic

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: our climate change issues and our political instability

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_01]: shaking people and waking them up that these

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: systems need to change and we all

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_01]: have a contribution to

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: creating that change or not

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_03]: absolutely and I

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_03]: think that's the piece that also has

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_03]: been

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_03]: really cool to see

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_03]: all of these groups that have come together

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and you know the last week, week and a

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_03]: half I just

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: my hope is that

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_03]: it continues and that there isn't

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_03]: some derailment like

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I that is my biggest worry

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_03]: is that there's going to be some sort of derailment

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think you know the momentum

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_03]: is going such way that people are going away

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_03]: this does impact me

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_03]: this does impact my world

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_03]: versus those other people

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_03]: over there that I don't need to worry about

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's like how did you not see this

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_03]: already

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_03]: you know like all of the things that we've seen

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_03]: happening with Supreme Court with all of these

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_03]: different issues it's like no this impacts

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_03]: all of us and

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_03]: our kids and nieces and nephews

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and everybody else so

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: anyhow so

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to ask

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_03]: what is one thing you want to make sure

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I know we just like jumped around a little bit but what's

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_03]: one thing you want folks to

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_03]: hear in your message

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_03]: and you know make sure that they take away

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_03]: from what we've talked about

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_01]: the concept that everybody

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: has a leadership story I think

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that we all have these big

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_01]: inflection moments of our lives where we

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_01]: are expressing our best

[00:41:14] [SPEAKER_01]: skills and our values and then the stories

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_01]: we tell around those things become tools for

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01]: us to lead and to motivate and inspire

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: people towards goals and so I talk

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot about how to discover that leadership

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_01]: story for yourself and to define it for yourself

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_01]: because most people you know

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_01]: receive messages from society

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: through media education

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: institutions that they're not

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_01]: good enough or enough of

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_01]: something in some way and shouldn't

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_01]: take up space shouldn't have a voice

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: shouldn't have decision-making authority

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think when people flip that on its head

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and realize that leadership is a practice of

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: story making our own goals and we all

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_01]: have a leadership story of some sort that can

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_01]: inspire and help others we can

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_01]: move things forward I think we're seeing that right now

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_01]: with the organizing that's happening at this collective

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: level between all these coalitions

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_01]: people really feel like oh I have a story to

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: tell I have insights and skills I can share

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_01]: we have a shared narrative we can create

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_01]: together and I think it really

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_01]: comes from you know people

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_01]: understanding that leadership is practice

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and that we need new models of it so that every

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_01]: person feels empowered to make change

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and to express their values in the

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_01]: things that they make and the conversations they have

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and the ways they manage their relationships

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_01]: so if people listeners take anything away

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_01]: it's that you have extreme

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_01]: amounts of power and what you believe

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_01]: about your own leadership capability and

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_01]: how you express that in the stories you tell about

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the things you care about and when you could do

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_01]: that in an effective way you will build power

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_01]: in ways you didn't expect and I think

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_01]: more people they become storytellers of their

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: own lives and the ways that they create

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_01]: you know visions and goals they're going

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_01]: to create changes they didn't think were possible

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome Jackie anyway

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I was just hoping for some reason

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: that you were going to I thought you were going to just say ditto

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_03]: because I'm just going to say ditto

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I have another one

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that what I want people to

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_02]: start wondering is that that narrative intelligence

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and when they're going into these things leave

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_02]: with curiosity and see where the story came

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_02]: from and recognize that

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_02]: someone I Katie knows I'm like

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't see positive intent I'm always

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_02]: assuming negative intent I'm working on it with

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_02]: my therapist I'll get there pray for me

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: but

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_02]: what I want people to think

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: about is understanding that this is a story

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_02]: or a narrative that has a background

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: in history as well

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and not learn to not take it

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_02]: as

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_02]: fat or as personal understanding

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: there's probably a story behind that so that you can

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_02]: leave with more curiosity instead of

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_02]: feeling like

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02]: it's necessarily better an attack on

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_02]: on you especially

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_02]: at work when we're all trying to reach

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_02]: those same goals it's difficult

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_01]: exactly

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I think for me

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_03]: it's the framing

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_03]: of kind of that evolution or that

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: change

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_03]: that we all need to have to be able to ask those

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_03]: questions and be curious

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and learn other people's stories and really

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_03]: understand you know kind of exactly what

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_03]: you all are saying but also that

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_03]: mindset shift that every person has to

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_03]: make of I have a story

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: but also the person sitting across from me has a

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_03]: story and I want to learn

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that as well it's not just

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: let me tell you what I know or what I have

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_03]: experienced or what I have gone through

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_03]: being able to really listen and take that

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: stuff in so I love

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_03]: the idea though of you know changing

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of the mindset changing

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_03]: the behaviors through storytelling I just think

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that's such a great concept

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_03]: so Christina where can folks

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: find you

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_01]: they can find me in Brooklyn

[00:44:40] [SPEAKER_01]: actually online you can find me

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: at the newquo.com

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that's T-H-E-N-E-W

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: q-u-o.com

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you can also find me on Instagram and LinkedIn

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_01]: at just my full name Christina Blocken

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and yeah I have lots of resources

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_01]: courses you know things you

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_01]: can sign up for to learn more about how to find your

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: leadership story and learn more about that

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and I'm just excited to see more

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and more people seeing this work as

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_01]: a lifetime work for better relationships

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: because that's really what the goal is it's how do we have

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: healthier relationships with people

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_01]: particularly who are different from us and we all have a way

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of being able to do that it doesn't take

[00:45:13] [SPEAKER_01]: someone who's you know a

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_01]: super special like

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_01]: famous person or celebrity are very

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_01]: wealthy to do this work all of us can do it

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and it just takes small steps and commitments

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely although

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Christina I do have a lot of very

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_03]: special people that I work with

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing a different

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_03]: way than what you mean

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_03]: right

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_03]: well Christina

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_03]: thank you so much for joining us

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_03]: this is Katie Van Horn

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is Jackie Clayton

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_03]: bye

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