Spilling the Tea on HR Tech - HR Tech leadership shakeup, including UKG's new C-Suite, PageUp's acquisition, and ServiceNow's bold moves.

[00:00:00] I will say that is something UKG seems acutely aware of because it was all of their messaging. And I'm talking about their broad messaging, not just for the analysts when they're talking to the group. And one other thing, I think you had originally pointed this out, I hadn't thought of, but UKG I believe now is the only one of the players in this market, speaking of, that has a completely female leadership team. I find that amazing and that they should be given a lot of props for that.

[00:00:24] Yeah, I am. I'm excited to see that because, you know, when Jennifer was over at the piece of the space, she wasn't, anyway, she was on a very senior leadership role for just a hot minute. I'm excited to see what she does here and how far she can take it. Her background in this space is really strong. So, so all good, exciting things. Very aware, though, that there were a lot of changes and a lot of changes causes a lot of challenges for the people who were there who are no longer there, as well as for the people who, the customers who are sort of looking for some of the similar problems.

[00:00:53] processes and similar expectations, but I'm heartened by what we're hearing. That's always a good thing, right?

[00:01:00] Welcome to the HR Huddle Podcast, presented by Sapient Insights Group, the ultimate resource for all things HR. It's time to get in the huddle.

[00:01:19] Welcome to Spilling the Tea on HR Tech, where we focus on the hottest HR tech news everyone needs to know to be in the know.

[00:01:25] We break down the news of the week and we help you make sense of what it means for our industry and how it can impact your organization.

[00:01:31] We are recording today on November 12th, 2024 and bringing you all the news you can use this week.

[00:01:38] I'm your host, Stacey Harris, Chief Research Officer for Sapient Insights Group.

[00:01:42] And joining me today on the road is Cliff Stevenson, our Director of Research and my co-host for our Spilling the Tea on HR Tech podcast.

[00:01:50] One of the things is that I was not here a couple weeks ago. Terry filled in for me, did an amazing job.

[00:01:55] I am back and just starting to get back into all the things from work.

[00:01:59] So if you haven't heard from me for a while, please know that I am running through all my emails, getting them all caught up.

[00:02:04] And Cliff, you've been on the road for the last couple of weeks, right?

[00:02:07] It's been, it's, you've been, you've been taking on a lot of the road trips for me.

[00:02:10] So I really, yeah.

[00:02:11] So, so where are you at today and what event are you at?

[00:02:15] I'm beautiful Las Vegas, as we can see.

[00:02:19] For those of you that work in the industry, you know that a lot of the events are here in Las Vegas, but it all looks the same, right?

[00:02:26] It doesn't matter where you are.

[00:02:27] And I was just in Philadelphia the week before.

[00:02:30] Very nice to sort of get out of just the Las Vegas trip, but I'm here for the UKG Annual Spire Conference.

[00:02:37] Terry Zipper's here as well.

[00:02:38] She's in the meetings right now, but we're on break.

[00:02:41] So this is perfect timing.

[00:02:43] Plus we've got the brand new breaking news, right?

[00:02:46] Announced an hour ago, one of these stories.

[00:02:49] So it's pretty exciting to be right on the forefront being able to share that with all of you.

[00:02:53] Yeah, I'm actually, I mean, it's rare that we get to get the news bright as it's happening.

[00:02:57] So we'll, we'll get some updates today.

[00:02:59] And also too, like you said, I think it just for note for all the people who are planning events out there,

[00:03:05] if there's any way to get us out of Las Vegas and out of Orlando, those two places, we are all for it.

[00:03:11] Let us know what we can do.

[00:03:12] We'll, we'll, we'll make the pitch for it for you because it's great to be outside of those two areas.

[00:03:17] We get a lot coming up both news-wise.

[00:03:19] Part of why we're kind of doing an off-cycle session is because we were running some great interviews that we've been having from the HR Tech Conference.

[00:03:26] We wanted to get all those played out over the last couple of weeks and you and I have been sort of off-sync from our own schedules.

[00:03:31] And so we just wanted to make sure that we got a chance to talk about some of the upcoming news.

[00:03:35] Also, that we'll be at some other upcoming events.

[00:03:37] So as you said, you were just at the Unit 4 event last week.

[00:03:39] You're at the UKG event.

[00:03:40] You're also going to be at the Dayforce event, I think, tomorrow, right?

[00:03:44] That is correct.

[00:03:45] Yeah.

[00:03:45] Just going down the street, literally down the street to the other end of the Las Vegas Strip to the win for the Dayforce event.

[00:03:52] Very exciting.

[00:03:53] Yep.

[00:03:54] And Terry's there with you.

[00:03:55] She won't be doing the Dayforce event, but she's been doing the UKG event.

[00:03:58] And Terry Zipper is our CEO and she's standing in for me as well and doing a fabulous job.

[00:04:02] Also on the road this week is Susan Richards, who is our founder.

[00:04:07] And she's doing a great session up for the HR Executive Magazine at their Leadership Strategy Summit run by Madeline Loreno.

[00:04:13] And so I'm excited to hear the news that came back from that.

[00:04:16] I think that's going to be really exciting.

[00:04:17] One of the senior executive sort of retreat kind of events.

[00:04:20] So we did get a picture of her hotel room.

[00:04:22] I am slightly jealous.

[00:04:24] Nowhere near our hotel rooms and in Vegas, Cliff, I will say.

[00:04:29] They're always lovely, but they're a little same-ish.

[00:04:32] Yeah.

[00:04:32] There is.

[00:04:33] Yeah.

[00:04:33] Yeah.

[00:04:33] But she's talking about change leadership there.

[00:04:35] So that's really exciting.

[00:04:35] I'll be interested to see how that works because we know it's a big topic for a lot of leaders right now.

[00:04:40] Right?

[00:04:40] Well, I'm at the UKG event.

[00:04:42] You best believe it is the front and center main topic right now.

[00:04:46] Yeah.

[00:04:46] The other things that we'll be doing is now that I'm starting to get back on the road again after being off for a little bit, I'll be doing the Workday European event.

[00:04:53] That's the second week of December.

[00:04:55] You and I will be doing a couple customer events the first week of December.

[00:04:58] And then we'll also be starting our registrations, if you're interested, for our brand new cohort education session starting next year.

[00:05:06] We have a change leadership session starting in January, February.

[00:05:10] That's a much shorter session.

[00:05:11] It's an opportunity to get and talk about change leadership.

[00:05:14] So if you're interested in that, visit our website.

[00:05:16] But also for those who are really interested, because we get a lot of requests on our adaptive HR system strategy program, building one, we start our next cohort session in March.

[00:05:25] So if you've got some end of the year budget and you're interested in sort of getting that signed up, let us know.

[00:05:30] We are starting our registrations for that this week and very excited.

[00:05:34] We had 10 great members go through our cohort last year.

[00:05:38] We've got wonderful feedback from them on the program.

[00:05:40] We're getting ready to start the next program in March.

[00:05:43] I think it's if you're looking at all the details you need to build a HR system strategy, that's the place where we kind of pack it all into one event and help you actually get it accomplished.

[00:05:50] And then I think we got one other webinar coming up.

[00:05:53] Well, we've got several webinars.

[00:05:55] We've got two iSolve webinars coming up.

[00:05:56] Cliff, I've got one in the next two weeks on HR strategy.

[00:06:00] You've got one coming up on HR analytics, correct?

[00:06:02] That's right.

[00:06:03] On December 12th, I'll be doing that one.

[00:06:05] Speaking of travel, I'll be doing that one live from Paris.

[00:06:07] So it'll be nice for any of our listeners.

[00:06:09] If you happen to be in the area, look me up.

[00:06:12] Yeah, we've got another colleague who's going on her honeymoon in Rome.

[00:06:16] So we've decided that we're going to be all through Europe.

[00:06:19] I'll be in Amsterdam.

[00:06:20] You're going to be in Paris.

[00:06:22] She's going to be in Rome.

[00:06:23] We have another colleague who just got a surprise trip to, I think, Milan, wasn't it?

[00:06:27] Right?

[00:06:28] That's right.

[00:06:28] Yeah.

[00:06:29] So if you're in Europe and you want to talk to a Zapient Insights team member, we're going

[00:06:33] to be all over Europe this week or this December.

[00:06:36] So it'll be great.

[00:06:37] I'm looking forward to Christmas shopping in Europe.

[00:06:40] That's one of my favorite things.

[00:06:41] That's brilliant.

[00:06:41] Yeah.

[00:06:42] We're going to have to get that extra luggage allowance on the way back, all of us.

[00:06:45] Oh, I know.

[00:06:45] I had to do that coming back last year, and that was only in November.

[00:06:48] It was really bad.

[00:06:50] I remember the guy looked at me, and he's like, what are you taking back?

[00:06:53] I'm like, Christmas decorations?

[00:06:56] So it was bad.

[00:06:57] But then the last thing I think we're going to be wrapping up this year is we are going

[00:07:01] to be doing a repeat of our Zapient Insights annual HR System Survey key findings event.

[00:07:06] That's going to be with Irem on December 18th.

[00:07:09] And so I think, Cliff, you and I will both be doing that.

[00:07:10] That'll be...

[00:07:11] So if you didn't get to see it at HR Tech and you didn't get to hear it on our October 31st

[00:07:15] big launch session, that'll be there.

[00:07:17] And then just as a reminder, if anybody hasn't been listening to us, our big white paper was

[00:07:21] launched October 31st.

[00:07:23] So over how many pages was it, Cliff?

[00:07:25] Cliff?

[00:07:25] Well, I'd love to tell you it's 248 pages, 183 figures.

[00:07:30] Don't ask me how I know these things that exact.

[00:07:32] 88,000 words.

[00:07:34] Yes.

[00:07:35] I think...

[00:07:36] Oh, you did tell me it was as big as...

[00:07:38] Which Harry Potter book was it?

[00:07:40] The second one, which I believe is Chamber of Secrets.

[00:07:42] It's all to the same length, almost down to the word, as George Orwell's 1984.

[00:07:46] 1984.

[00:07:47] Don't draw any conclusions from that, dear listeners or viewers.

[00:07:51] Yeah, not right now.

[00:07:52] Yeah.

[00:07:52] So I was kind of...

[00:07:54] I was like, oh my gosh.

[00:07:55] So if we get to meet...

[00:07:56] What is it?

[00:07:57] What's the really big Harry Potter one?

[00:07:58] That's like the last one, right?

[00:07:59] I can't remember the name of it.

[00:08:00] Yeah.

[00:08:01] But we were pretty much threatened by Tammy, who does all our dating analysis, that if we

[00:08:05] got that big, she was going to basically revolt on that point.

[00:08:08] So we're going to have to stay within the range that we're in.

[00:08:11] But yeah, no, it's out.

[00:08:13] Plus, if you ever haven't had an opportunity to in the past, we do sell the full report.

[00:08:18] With that, you get some other kind of fun things that go along with it.

[00:08:21] But we also, on our research marketplace, sell now segments of the report.

[00:08:25] So if you're interested in just one segment, that's available too.

[00:08:28] And then anybody who has a subscription to our research center, obviously you get all

[00:08:31] access to all of it.

[00:08:32] So just a plug for that, because it gives us a chance to talk to you more and you get

[00:08:36] some time with the advisors.

[00:08:37] So we got a lot going on this.

[00:08:38] I mean, we've been, while I was out, you guys were working hard to get all the done.

[00:08:44] We've got lots of strategy sessions going on with organizations, a lot of conversations

[00:08:48] going on with organizations about skills and where we're at.

[00:08:51] But let's talk a little bit about the travels, Cliff.

[00:08:53] Since you've been out and about, what are you seeing?

[00:08:56] What are some of the new things that everyone should be aware of, both from the Unit 4 event

[00:09:00] and the UKG event, since you're at them this week?

[00:09:02] Yeah, it's interesting because we're talking about almost two different, maybe not philosophies,

[00:09:08] but kind of different takeaways.

[00:09:10] What I found great and interesting about the Unit 4 event was that they are staying focused

[00:09:15] on what has been successful for them in the past and just refining and getting better.

[00:09:20] What do I mean by that?

[00:09:22] Well, you know, they are in the mid-market.

[00:09:24] For them, that's 500 to about 10,000.

[00:09:27] And they have no plans, no desire to change that.

[00:09:30] They also are very vertically focused, professional services, public sector, non-profit, higher

[00:09:37] educational, that's mostly in the UK.

[00:09:39] They may take on another vertical, but what they've really said is, look, we are, and if

[00:09:46] you don't know them, and that's understandable, but they do finance ERP as well as HCM.

[00:09:51] So they do differentiate themselves quite a bit like that.

[00:09:54] I know we have talked, and we'll probably end up talking today about how the whole world

[00:09:59] of HR tech is slowly blending into a gray area of, right, other types of software and other

[00:10:06] types of services that can be provided.

[00:10:08] And it's getting really hard to tell what fits in.

[00:10:11] You did such a good job on the HR systems blueprint.

[00:10:14] And now it's like, well, where did some companies fit in?

[00:10:20] But it just shows that people have needs, you know, for these things.

[00:10:23] And so I really found it fascinating.

[00:10:25] I think their approach to AI, Unifor's approach to AI is really good.

[00:10:30] They went with ethics first before capabilities.

[00:10:33] They made like an entire ethics sheet.

[00:10:35] And they also had this idea where they think, you know, the importance of the underlying data

[00:10:42] is what's important and that there are different kinds of smart.

[00:10:46] They understand, just as we've talked about, and I'm sure our listeners and viewers have

[00:10:49] heard too, that, you know, AI has just got to be a blanket term, right?

[00:10:53] So they think of it as smart technologies and that there are different kinds of smart,

[00:10:57] and that's their approach on going to AI.

[00:10:59] So they use different kinds of things in different ways rather than just saying, oh, yeah,

[00:11:02] we've got the thing, you know, some new term, some new proprietary license AI that

[00:11:08] we're just going to make everywhere.

[00:11:10] And the final thing I thought that was really fascinating is they did a customer story.

[00:11:16] And normally when you are a person attending one of these events or even an analyst, the

[00:11:22] customer is going to put in you, it often sounds like a commercial.

[00:11:24] This was not the case.

[00:11:25] She wasn't trashing Unifor, but she was very realistic.

[00:11:29] And one of the questions of Unifor, and she said, I wish we'd spent more time in change

[00:11:34] management, especially from the people side.

[00:11:37] But understanding how the implementation was going to affect people and not just systems,

[00:11:42] which, again, we talk about, you know, we look at data, but we always try and focus

[00:11:47] on what is the impact on people, right?

[00:11:50] It's one thing just to say 67%, but what is the customer story?

[00:11:53] What is the use case?

[00:11:54] So I just found that fascinating.

[00:11:56] I love to hear it.

[00:11:57] With UKG, obviously a much larger company, there's a whole lot going on.

[00:12:02] They're very excited to have all the new AI agents.

[00:12:05] They're one of the first to go to market with this, talking to Hugo Sousen that works here

[00:12:09] at UKG, I mean, and really talking to him about all the new stuff that they're doing with

[00:12:14] AI agents.

[00:12:16] Also some pretty interesting, I had a private conversation with him about some of the work

[00:12:20] they're going to do in increasing, like, for instance, benefits.

[00:12:23] And, you know, they have their own product and they are seeing more and more uptake on

[00:12:29] that along with other things like performance and just sort of weaving it in.

[00:12:33] They're very careful.

[00:12:33] They don't want to do employee journeys, but they do want to find all those different touch

[00:12:37] points.

[00:12:38] About, I want to say almost a year ago, Stacey, I know you did a bunch of work, well, both

[00:12:43] of us with Workday and talking about how sometimes these transactional moments, like just

[00:12:47] receiving a paycheck, can be a moment that matters and, you know, really, you know, finding

[00:12:53] those things where you can turn the tactical to the strategic.

[00:12:55] And it's a lesson they also are interested in.

[00:12:58] And of course, the big news going in was all the new leadership.

[00:13:03] You mentioned some of that change leadership, right?

[00:13:06] Yeah.

[00:13:06] They are in through a lot of it between Jennifer Morgan coming over from SAP and Rachel Barger,

[00:13:13] and we finally got a chance to meet in person, all wonderful, of course.

[00:13:16] And then just the news that we sort of teased about an hour ago dropped by now.

[00:13:23] And of course, when you're listening to this, it'll have been a couple of weeks, but Arlen

[00:13:26] Schenkman is going to join UKG as president and CFO, chief financial officer.

[00:13:31] He'd come directly from Boomi, but before that was with SAP as well.

[00:13:36] So a lot of synergy between the people that have worked together between Rachel and Jennifer

[00:13:40] and now Arlen.

[00:13:41] Yeah, there's some real interesting dynamics there, right?

[00:13:44] And I think we can see this happening in all the big ERP organizations, right?

[00:13:48] Is that they're bringing leadership in from other very large enterprise cloud solutions,

[00:13:55] right?

[00:13:55] Salesforce, a lot of people moving over from Salesforce to different organizations, right?

[00:13:59] Interesting Boomi, that focus on integration, right?

[00:14:02] With Boomi, right?

[00:14:03] That I think will be interesting to have someone who's in a president's role who understands the

[00:14:08] power of integrations for the UKG audience.

[00:14:12] You know, and interestingly, right?

[00:14:13] Like you've got also that conversation with SAP SuccessFactors.

[00:14:16] And you were just talking about Unit 4.

[00:14:18] And Mike Ettling, who is CEO over at Unit 4, had a longstanding relationship from the SAP

[00:14:24] SuccessFactors day as well, right?

[00:14:26] So I think what we're seeing in these senior leadership roles is this sort of shifting around

[00:14:31] of people who have been in certain organizations for quite some time.

[00:14:37] And as they're getting leaner in some other areas, they're beefing up other areas from a

[00:14:43] leadership perspective.

[00:14:44] Because I think the expectation is that they're going to be more global.

[00:14:47] They're going to be growing faster.

[00:14:49] They're going to be expanding.

[00:14:52] And there is an out and outright competition coming, right?

[00:14:56] I think we are, you know, it used to be pretty clear that, you know, who is going to be the

[00:15:01] primary solution for anybody over 10,000 employees?

[00:15:04] You know, you really only have three choices.

[00:15:06] If you were global, that cut it down even more.

[00:15:09] That is not the case any longer as our data is starting to show is that we're probably by,

[00:15:16] I'd say by the end of next year, we will have solidly maybe four or five players who could

[00:15:22] be real options for organizations over 10,000 employees in the HR space and the payroll

[00:15:28] space, which that has not been something we've talked about in quite some time, right?

[00:15:32] And vice versa, as we're watching that happen, as people move up in the enterprise area, we're

[00:15:37] seeing that same thing happen in the mid-market.

[00:15:39] So I know we have a lot of other news stories this week, and we're probably not going to get

[00:15:42] to all of them, Cliff.

[00:15:43] But I think that it's great to hear some of those changes at the organizations.

[00:15:47] I think part of what we'll have to watch is, does any of this leadership change in any of these

[00:15:53] sort of rearrangements?

[00:15:54] And we know the layoffs that came, right?

[00:15:56] Do they impact the customer care, right?

[00:15:59] The movement and growth, I think, is exciting.

[00:16:01] But we also have to be very careful that as organizations are doing all those changes,

[00:16:06] that they're truly thinking about the customer care.

[00:16:08] So that'll be the thing to watch, I think, in our data set is growth matching what we need

[00:16:14] from a customer perspective, right?

[00:16:16] Yeah.

[00:16:16] And I will say that is something UKG seems acutely aware of because it was all of their messaging.

[00:16:21] And I'm talking about their broad messaging, not just for the analysts, but when they're talking

[00:16:24] to the group.

[00:16:25] And one other thing, I think you had originally pointed this out, I hadn't thought of, but

[00:16:28] UKG, I believe now is the only one of the players in this market, speaking of, that has a

[00:16:33] completely female leadership team.

[00:16:35] I find that amazing and that they should be given a lot of props for that.

[00:16:40] Yeah.

[00:16:40] Yeah.

[00:16:41] I am.

[00:16:42] I'm excited to see that because, you know, when Jennifer was over at to be successful,

[00:16:45] she wasn't doing it.

[00:16:46] She was on a very senior leadership role for just a hot minute.

[00:16:49] I'm excited to see what she does here and how far she can take it.

[00:16:52] Her background in this space is really strong.

[00:16:54] So, so all, all good, exciting things.

[00:16:58] Very aware though, that there were a lot of changes and a lot of changes causes a lot

[00:17:02] of challenges for the people who were there, who are no longer there, as well as for the

[00:17:06] people who, the customers who are sort of looking for some of the similar processes and

[00:17:10] similar expectations.

[00:17:12] But I'm heartened by what we're hearing.

[00:17:14] That's always a good thing, right?

[00:17:15] So I know we have a lot of other topics today, Cliff.

[00:17:18] So do you want to maybe just highlight the ones you think we're going to try and get to

[00:17:20] before we wrap up today?

[00:17:22] Yeah.

[00:17:22] I want to talk about some of the other things that I found interesting, just kind of hot

[00:17:26] off the presses.

[00:17:26] Like you said, we don't get to do that a lot.

[00:17:28] So another one that was about eight hours ago and the time difference will make more sense

[00:17:32] when you realize it's an Australian company we're talking about.

[00:17:35] So EQT, they acquired, and I want to make sure, because I at first thought it was Equate,

[00:17:41] which is a different group, but they acquired PageUp.

[00:17:46] We know the people at PageUp very well.

[00:17:48] I'll admit I don't know the people over at EQT, which maybe is not surprising.

[00:17:54] But another seemed majority of the Asian and Australian firms that they work with.

[00:18:00] And I'm going to actually be talking, and maybe both of us will be talking, too,

[00:18:05] PageUp in December.

[00:18:06] They just scheduled something, actually, right when this was announced, to chat with us and

[00:18:10] get us some more information on it.

[00:18:12] But, you know, it really builds upon what EQT has been doing in that region.

[00:18:17] There's a whole lot of different companies that kind of fall under their investment portfolio.

[00:18:23] Some of these I know, some of these I don't.

[00:18:25] Clinch, ERQ, PathMotion, all within the last four years.

[00:18:29] And then they also have investments in Pecan, Unmined, Hume, which I do know, SANA Labs,

[00:18:35] and HR Brain.

[00:18:37] So, you know, you know, it really, again, I, it's sort of in that thematic space of,

[00:18:42] you know, really expanding the footprint of what you can expect from your people platform,

[00:18:48] regardless of what it is.

[00:18:50] Yeah, PageUp's an interesting one, because it was one of the kind of talent suites that

[00:18:54] came out of the Asia-Pacific market more so than the U.S. market.

[00:18:57] And I think they had a really good handle on what was happening in the Asia-Pacific market

[00:19:01] from a talent perspective.

[00:19:02] Clinch, I think, was one of the solutions they were partnering with or were part of

[00:19:06] their, so I think that this acquisition may have been sort of taking what was a small

[00:19:10] investment and making it a bigger sort of relationship with EQT, right?

[00:19:14] But I also think it's good.

[00:19:16] You know, one of the things that we're seeing in our data is this idea of organizations

[00:19:19] sort of really, that idea of best of breed versus all-in-one solution, those concepts.

[00:19:25] Buyers aren't interested in that and they really don't want to hear about it anymore,

[00:19:28] right?

[00:19:28] What they're really interested in is the idea of what's your network of systems, right?

[00:19:34] And that this idea that we're highlighting that's called platform clusters or anchor

[00:19:39] systems, right, is another term that we've been using.

[00:19:42] Because organizations are really trying to figure out how do I think about this from an

[00:19:45] integration perspective?

[00:19:47] And so I do think a lot of these smaller solutions, and I say small in the sense of,

[00:19:51] you know, not a full platform itself, it's going to be starting to be sort of either investors

[00:19:55] will be picking up or they'll be picked up by larger platforms, and then they're going

[00:19:58] to start to figure out what's that ecosystem that they're creating.

[00:20:01] And it's not like we haven't seen this.

[00:20:02] This has definitely been something we've seen historically.

[00:20:05] The last time I think we saw some really big rounds of this was around the 2010 mark when

[00:20:10] sort of organizations were getting through the last changeover.

[00:20:13] And then around again in that 2012 mark.

[00:20:15] This is not the last time we'll see this.

[00:20:18] I do think that it's going to be a little bit different because I think buyers now are a

[00:20:21] little savvier about how they're creating their architecture, right?

[00:20:24] So I'm excited to see this.

[00:20:26] Penny's been who sort of handles their communications and marketing has been a long time friend of

[00:20:30] ours.

[00:20:31] Dominic, every year we brief with him.

[00:20:33] He's always got an interesting take.

[00:20:35] Again, another organization very highly connected to higher ed, similar to the Unit 4 conversation.

[00:20:41] I'm interested in seeing some of these organizations that have different industries that they're

[00:20:44] focusing on too.

[00:20:45] It's not just healthcare and manufacturing and finances we always see, right?

[00:20:50] And different regions, as you mentioned, a lot of Australia, a lot of Asia.

[00:20:53] We're going to be talking about some Europeans.

[00:20:55] And you know, as our research spans more and more and we're getting more and more responses,

[00:21:00] we'd love to hear it.

[00:21:01] If you're one of the listeners or viewers that really follows us, we see the metrics.

[00:21:05] We know there's a lot.

[00:21:06] Australia is the second most represented after the US.

[00:21:09] So if there's some companies you're like, oh, you guys never talk about them?

[00:21:12] Please write us.

[00:21:13] Let us know.

[00:21:14] Probably by next year, we're probably going to have enough responses to feel that they're

[00:21:17] statistically significant.

[00:21:18] We want to make sure that we really understand that market.

[00:21:21] So then switching over to Europe, more acquisition news as SDWorks closes, finishes their acquisition

[00:21:28] of F2A.

[00:21:29] We reported on this.

[00:21:31] Well, you know, we talked about it on the podcast.

[00:21:33] It's not exactly reporting, but we talked about it in July of this year.

[00:21:37] So that's been going on.

[00:21:39] And so that brings in SDWorks, which already had a whole lot of European footprint, but

[00:21:44] without Italy and now brings in Italy.

[00:21:47] You know, there's, you know, a lot that's important because of the legal and compliance

[00:21:52] regulations that can be different.

[00:21:54] People think of the EU as a block, but there is a lot of difference between the states

[00:21:58] members, I should say, of the EU.

[00:22:01] They're not as monolithic as you might suppose if you haven't spent some time there.

[00:22:06] And, you know, it also increases their customer footprint as well with some capabilities.

[00:22:11] So that has kind of cleared all the regulatory and financial hurdles to close that out.

[00:22:17] Pretty big in Europe.

[00:22:18] Yeah.

[00:22:18] And we're going to be talking to Luke on this, who reached out to us to give us an update

[00:22:21] on SDWorks.

[00:22:22] I think actually it's not in the next two weeks.

[00:22:24] It'll be at the 1st of December.

[00:22:25] So we'll have some more update on SDWorks because I'm interested in hearing a little bit

[00:22:29] more about sort of what their plans are for growth and change as they sort of create, again,

[00:22:34] this sort of platform of mixtures.

[00:22:37] It reminds me a little bit of what we're seeing Seagind do, right?

[00:22:39] Over in there in the European market as well, right?

[00:22:42] Yeah.

[00:22:42] Yeah.

[00:22:43] In fact, we'll be talking to them Friday, I believe it is.

[00:22:45] It's always the time zones, right?

[00:22:47] So it's quite early, but we're happy to go through that for you, our listeners.

[00:22:51] Now, this is an interesting one that you sent to me, Stacey.

[00:22:54] This was some news about ServiceNow and another acquisition that doesn't necessarily fall within

[00:23:00] the HR realm, but you pointed out that it really leads into something we've been talking about

[00:23:04] a lot, even on this podcast.

[00:23:06] So I'll let you introduce this because you've obviously given this a lot of thought and read

[00:23:10] through this.

[00:23:11] Yeah.

[00:23:12] So ServiceNow acquired Mission Secure.

[00:23:14] They're an operations technology asset management tool, basically.

[00:23:19] And what's really interesting, I think, about that is that...

[00:23:23] ServiceNow, as many of you know, is sort of a conglomerate of sort of front-facing and

[00:23:28] systems management and workflow tools that now they have created a pretty successfully

[00:23:33] practices across operations, IT, as well as some areas of finance now they're embedded

[00:23:39] in and definitely in the HCM space with their onboarding and their front-facing applications

[00:23:46] and HR help desk solutions.

[00:23:48] Interestingly enough, we did quite an analysis this year on, you know, is the user experience

[00:23:53] better if I have my HRMS or a non-HRMS system as my front system.

[00:23:58] And we found there was really no big difference in the data this year, which is whether or not

[00:24:03] they had a more cohesive user experience based off of that.

[00:24:07] What did make a big difference this year, if you look at the data, is whether or not they

[00:24:11] had a person or a role who was overseeing that employee experience.

[00:24:15] That made the biggest difference.

[00:24:17] Which goes to show that I think organizations can take a lot of different tools and create

[00:24:23] an employee experience that really works for them if they have someone architecting it.

[00:24:26] And ServiceNow has really taken advantage of that conversation.

[00:24:29] What I really think is interesting about this one is that even though this isn't HR related

[00:24:34] per se, is that the operational technology and HR technology are more and more interconnected

[00:24:39] than they've ever been in the future.

[00:24:41] And what I'm seeing, and this goes back to some of the early days of Internet of Things

[00:24:46] that people remember, right?

[00:24:47] When you're looking at operational technology, you're looking also at the data that's inside

[00:24:52] of those systems.

[00:24:53] Access, information about who's working on it, information about where it's at in buildings

[00:24:58] and where people are at.

[00:24:59] It's treasure troves of information that are sitting on those operational systems.

[00:25:04] My dad used to be a PLC programmer.

[00:25:06] So back in the day, that was a big part of the work that he did.

[00:25:11] And what I think is interesting is that I think ServiceNow is getting slightly ahead of what

[00:25:15] the rest of the market is probably going to start to feel, which is that I need to be able

[00:25:20] to access my business systems and pull data from them and use that more environmentally.

[00:25:25] So I don't have to keep asking people, where are you at?

[00:25:27] What was your performance?

[00:25:28] What were you doing, right?

[00:25:30] If I want to pull it directly from the system, I think that's going to be where ServiceNow

[00:25:33] is going.

[00:25:34] It's interesting to note, ServiceNow also just put out a, I think it's their fourth

[00:25:37] quarter update on their financials, or third quarter, sorry, 2024 financial results.

[00:25:43] And it was really, really telling.

[00:25:45] You know, they had 22%, I think, year over year, 23% year over year growth in subscriptions

[00:25:49] this year.

[00:25:50] They are just killing all of their metrics and upping sort of where they were at.

[00:25:54] I think part of what we're seeing in the market is that when we ask organizations,

[00:25:57] particularly the enterprise organization, about who's their largest competitor, ServiceNow

[00:26:01] comes in pretty clear as a big competitor for many of those enterprise platforms at the

[00:26:06] HRMS side.

[00:26:08] Not payroll, but the HRMS and front door perspective.

[00:26:12] And so I think it's interesting for us to just to watch this.

[00:26:15] Which systems are going to have access to the business and operation systems?

[00:26:18] And what is that data going to provide for them?

[00:26:20] So that's where my head's been at with this conversation.

[00:26:22] Yeah, I like that.

[00:26:23] And that's interesting too, because I think, I don't remember if we had a chance to talk

[00:26:27] about it, but about a month ago, I think ServiceNow announced they were putting in about a million,

[00:26:32] a billion and a half into UK data centers.

[00:26:35] So tying in the sort of European aspect, but also just proving to what you said is people

[00:26:40] need access to an immense amount of data and we're going to make that investment in it.

[00:26:44] So, I mean, that's a significant investment to really harness the sort of data that they have.

[00:26:50] Because like you said, they have a lot of different kinds of data than some of your more traditional,

[00:26:55] I guess you'd call them HR tech.

[00:26:57] Even though, like I said, that's getting really hard to define.

[00:27:00] It's definitely getting harder to define.

[00:27:03] In case you're wondering why the report keeps getting longer, it's not because we just love

[00:27:07] writing.

[00:27:07] We really don't actually.

[00:27:10] Our team, so our leadership team is often like, well, can't we just make it shorter?

[00:27:14] And I'm like, well, we could, but people keep asking us questions about these systems

[00:27:17] that aren't in it.

[00:27:18] Right. So benefits is a really good example.

[00:27:20] Talking about our next conversation here with PlanSource.

[00:27:23] As you mentioned, UKG sounds like they're investing quite a bit in benefits.

[00:27:26] PlanSource has been a longtime partner with on benefits.

[00:27:30] So I'm not sure how that will.

[00:27:32] I don't know if they mentioned that.

[00:27:32] Well, I don't know how much of what I talked about with Hugo is under NDIS.

[00:27:36] I don't want to get him into trouble, but it certainly isn't a plan of replacement.

[00:27:39] That's clear.

[00:27:40] What they are trying to do is serve more customers than they were able to before.

[00:27:44] And, you know, they had this sort of, and because UKG in general is really interested

[00:27:49] in the SMB space in a lot of different ways.

[00:27:52] And so with that, they're kind of trying to find ways that they can serve them and give

[00:27:57] them things that they didn't have before.

[00:27:59] So.

[00:28:00] Well, we know from our data that the mid-market, the number one place they're planning to invest

[00:28:04] more, if they're investing more in HR technology, that's about 40% of them are this year.

[00:28:10] It will be number one of the number one places will be in their benefits platforms, right?

[00:28:13] And SMB, it's like third or fourth on the list, right?

[00:28:16] Like it's right there.

[00:28:17] There, we know that the SMB market, even those who are 50 and below, even though they may

[00:28:22] not have traditional benefits, if they're not offering healthcare benefits, they are

[00:28:26] offering something in the wellness sector for a lot of their employees too.

[00:28:30] So this is a conversation we're seeing across the market.

[00:28:32] And I do think that we're seeing a lot of conversation.

[00:28:35] I just had some conversations this week with Aptia, who was another, that was the sort

[00:28:40] of spinoff of the Mercer benefits technology, where they were kind of moved that into an

[00:28:44] acclomerate.

[00:28:45] I think we're seeing a lot of organizations really having interesting conversations on

[00:28:48] benefits as it's no longer just benefits administration or even just cool, you know,

[00:28:55] selection tools.

[00:28:56] It really is a whole ecosystem around this total rewards conversation.

[00:29:00] And how do I provide tailored environments for my employees, which I think gets back to

[00:29:07] our announcement here on PlanSource.

[00:29:09] PlanSource has changed up quite a bit of their senior leadership.

[00:29:12] They've got a new chief marketing officer, Anna Perez.

[00:29:15] And what's exciting, I think, about some of that is that I'm excited to see, because they're

[00:29:21] like many of these firms are sort of headed up by what I would consider as either private

[00:29:27] equity firms or investment firms.

[00:29:29] And it's nice to see them investing in these organizations again there, because for the

[00:29:33] longest time, to be real honest, benefits administration platforms and benefits tools were kind of cash

[00:29:38] cows.

[00:29:39] They were easy ways to make money because everybody had to have them.

[00:29:42] They were just basic tools.

[00:29:43] And they just did the job and did integration.

[00:29:45] I think now they're realizing we've got to have these just as highly connected as all the

[00:29:49] other applications in the market, right?

[00:29:51] This is exactly it.

[00:29:52] And I think in a way, too, not only do you want to have that experience, have the data

[00:29:56] and the connection, but it goes back to this idea of what are the other touch points that

[00:30:00] we have with our people?

[00:30:02] And what are the ways that we can help drive organizational culture or change management

[00:30:06] or other areas, especially in a highly work-from-home environment?

[00:30:10] You know, as we said, that's not really going away.

[00:30:13] You hear some news, but as we saw in our research, it's still a lot more people working from home

[00:30:18] than there ever used to be in a way that probably isn't going to change.

[00:30:21] So what are the ways we can help them and affect them and also think about benefits in a different

[00:30:25] way?

[00:30:26] Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:27] I think it's a market that's going to be a lot of talk about it next year.

[00:30:30] If you don't have some strategy for it in your existence, if you're a vendor and you

[00:30:35] don't have a good strategy for it in your environment, I would get one soon.

[00:30:39] And if you are a buyer, this will be an opportunity this year, I think, to rethink your benefits,

[00:30:44] or at least maybe by the end of this year going into next year as many of these systems

[00:30:48] come up with new strategies, right?

[00:30:50] That's right.

[00:30:51] And then, you know, speaking of personnel, Rejig announced a number of, as we keep talking

[00:30:57] about, a lot of different kind of movement in the market, a number of senior appointments

[00:31:02] as they're looking to expand.

[00:31:04] So we get Nuno Gonchalves, the head of workforce strategy, who has been at Nike and Mars.

[00:31:11] So, you know, very large, known, well, you know, Nike and Mars, I don't even know what

[00:31:15] kind of companies those are.

[00:31:16] Amy Wilson, who was a product strategy and technology integration advisor, who was at

[00:31:22] SuccessFactors and Workday.

[00:31:24] And Lynn Oldham, who would be the advisor to the chief people officer in CHROs and was the

[00:31:30] chief people officer at Zoom, along with Driscoll and BNP Paribas Bank.

[00:31:35] So that's just really interesting, a nice mix of talent, really interested to see these kind

[00:31:42] of big moves from Rejig.

[00:31:43] And then I guess as we're sort of wrapping up, I did see one, I think you might have sent

[00:31:48] it to me, that LinkedIn is going to launch their first AI agent because I think it's the

[00:31:53] longest we've gone without doing a completely AI story.

[00:31:56] It is.

[00:31:57] But we did it.

[00:31:58] We did it.

[00:31:59] But they have an AI agent.

[00:32:00] We've talked about AI agents before.

[00:32:02] There's been a lot of talk here at UKG, as I mentioned, they were kind of the first to

[00:32:06] market, but they're really, they're, they're doubling down on that.

[00:32:08] And, you know, we're here in Vegas.

[00:32:10] So their AI agent will just be called hiring assistant and we'll be working directly with

[00:32:16] recruiters.

[00:32:16] So this is really LinkedIn recruit that's taking advantage of this, but they already have some

[00:32:22] customers using it.

[00:32:23] But it'll, you know, help on, you know, all your things that anyone that's been in recruitment

[00:32:27] will do getting rid of all of the sort of administrative tasks that can sometimes get

[00:32:32] in the way of helping you really connect to people and sell them the jobs, which is something

[00:32:37] that, you know, AI probably can't do.

[00:32:40] So, you know, again, focusing on what's best about people and what's best about AI, which

[00:32:44] you like to see when companies like this are doing this.

[00:32:47] Yeah, it's, I think it's an interesting thing when we, when we look at some of that around

[00:32:52] the idea of, of LinkedIn, because we know from our data that LinkedIn recruiters is heavily

[00:32:58] used across organizations of all sizes, right?

[00:33:01] It's not the primary tool.

[00:33:03] It's a, it's a supporting tool, more along the lines of a job work, particularly for those

[00:33:06] who have more office-based business recruiting needs.

[00:33:09] But what's interesting, I think, is that we are hearing more and more feedback about the

[00:33:13] cost of LinkedIn compared to what else is going on in the market.

[00:33:17] And so I do wonder, as they add some of these hiring assistants in this AI one, will that

[00:33:23] help them offset some of the costs because they can get more done more quickly, right?

[00:33:27] What is sort of LinkedIn?

[00:33:29] We don't know this because it doesn't really say anything about how much, you know, if

[00:33:31] it's, there's additional charge or where all of that is at, right?

[00:33:34] So I think it's an interesting thing to watch when we start adding these assistants and this

[00:33:39] agent-driven versus sort of more of a chatbot model, right?

[00:33:44] And, you know, and as they're, as they're sort of starting to roll these things out,

[00:33:49] you know, do they, do they really save the time?

[00:33:51] Our data is showing that organizations who are using AI at any level tends to get a little bit

[00:33:55] higher outcomes in the data set this year.

[00:33:58] We'll see if that holds true for the next couple of years.

[00:34:00] Usually early movers in any new technology get a little bit of a bump up.

[00:34:04] But yeah, I think it's really interesting to see.

[00:34:07] Honestly, I would have, I would have actually thought LinkedIn would have gone a little faster

[00:34:09] than this, but it's, it's good to see they took a little bit of time.

[00:34:12] Now the question will be sort of, how does this fit into the, into the bigger picture?

[00:34:15] Right.

[00:34:16] I think before we wrap up too, we just want to know there was some announcement this

[00:34:19] week by 15.5, they unveiled their latest platform evolution, which is another version

[00:34:24] of sort of an outcomes dashboard.

[00:34:26] I know we've talked a little bit about a version of this in the past, but I think they've really

[00:34:30] focused a little bit more on, on where they're heading with sort of meeting the needs

[00:34:34] of managers at this point, which is sort of interesting for them and, and really focusing

[00:34:39] on the performance management.

[00:34:39] So that was an announcement that just came out this week or we heard about it last week

[00:34:43] and we, we got the approval to sort of talk about it today.

[00:34:46] So that's something to keep an eye on.

[00:34:47] And then I know the other announcement that we should just make an eye on is ISOLV did

[00:34:51] an announcement about a partnership on the global payroll front.

[00:34:55] And I just wanted to note this because up to this point, ISOLV has, they've done some,

[00:35:00] some partnerships.

[00:35:01] They have partnerships in global payroll, but it looks like they're making a concerted effort

[00:35:04] to make more news about it.

[00:35:06] And these partnerships, I think the company's remote.

[00:35:09] We were actually looking for the press release and it wasn't pumping up real quickly.

[00:35:12] So we'll have to talk to Amberley and say, Hey, we're, we're missing a press release on

[00:35:15] this one.

[00:35:15] But I think it's worth mentioning because that mid market space is going to be highly

[00:35:19] focused on some of their global capabilities.

[00:35:21] And I think we should watch, watch the space carefully would be the thing, right?

[00:35:24] Who else is going to start coming out with more connection to remote and to, to global payroll

[00:35:30] and the ability to work remotely for this mid market space.

[00:35:34] Right.

[00:35:34] And UKG has done, did this much earlier and they've got it much farther down the pathway

[00:35:38] for them.

[00:35:39] Right.

[00:35:40] Yeah, exactly.

[00:35:42] So, so.

[00:35:42] I know you're wrapping up Clifford take, I know you're, I know you're like, okay, I'll

[00:35:46] be there in a minute.

[00:35:47] All right.

[00:35:48] Let's, let's wrap up so you can get back to your sessions.

[00:35:51] Thank you for joining us.

[00:35:52] I know it's a busy thing to pull you out of the sessions and to have the conversations,

[00:35:57] but we'll kind of wrap up today and get this session in the can.

[00:36:01] A couple of big things.

[00:36:02] Again, just a reminder that the full white paper is out now.

[00:36:05] Go be sure to go to our website and download it in our research marketplace, along with our segment

[00:36:09] reports, if you just want to get maybe something on payroll or on time management or on the talent

[00:36:14] management space.

[00:36:15] As we've noted before, Cliff told you all the stats.

[00:36:17] We had over 200 vendors this year who were mentioned in the research report, over 6,000

[00:36:22] people participated.

[00:36:23] And, you know, we had the 40% increase in usable data sets this year, which is just, just

[00:36:28] wild.

[00:36:29] Also go to our website to sign up for our newsletter for ongoing updates on our research launches,

[00:36:33] where we'll be speaking, who's going to be purchased when you can participate in

[00:36:36] the survey.

[00:36:37] The new survey will go out in May this year.

[00:36:39] So just be aware of that and be sure to listen to our, our other HR Huddle podcast,

[00:36:44] HR We Have a Problem, hosted by our CEO, Terry Zipper.

[00:36:47] And be sure to set, please mark like, and thank you.

[00:36:50] And I'm going to get through this ending here, by the way.

[00:36:52] I think you're killing it.

[00:36:54] You're doing great.

[00:36:54] I've probably been two or three weeks since I've been off, Cliff.

[00:36:57] All right.

[00:36:57] All right.

[00:36:58] Please subscribe and leave ratings because that is what's most important to us.

[00:37:01] To stay up to date with immediate breaking of your tech news and to get all the behind

[00:37:05] the scenes content.

[00:37:06] Please follow Cliff, myself and our whole team on LinkedIn at Sapient Insights on, and

[00:37:11] also on Instagram as well.

[00:37:13] We've got a lot of stuff going out there and Facebook these days.

[00:37:16] Thanks, Cliff, for joining us.

[00:37:17] I know you've got to get back to your audience.

[00:37:19] Thank you to our production team for including our brand method media run by Kelly Kelly,

[00:37:23] our marketing team, Summer Orlano and Mark Machetto.

[00:37:27] And thanks to our listeners and our community.

[00:37:29] We couldn't do this without you.

[00:37:31] That's it for this episode of Spilling the Tea on HR Tech.

[00:37:33] We hope it's been just the brew you needed to get the engine started this week.

[00:37:37] And we'll be back in maybe three more weeks.

[00:37:40] I think we're going to do a little bit of break or we'll do a repeat for the Thanksgiving

[00:37:44] holiday, which is one of the reasons we want to get this out with another pot of boiling

[00:37:47] hot HR tech updates and insights.

[00:37:50] And we'll see you all there.

[00:37:51] So thanks, everyone.

[00:37:52] Bye.

[00:37:53] Bye.