[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the HR Huddle podcast presented by Sapient Insights Group, the ultimate resource
[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: for all things HR. It's time to get in the huddle.
[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Spilling the Tea on HR Tech where we focus on the hottest HR tech news everyone
[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_01]: needs to know to be in the know. We break down the news of the week and help you make
[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_01]: sense of what it means for our industry and how it can impact your organization.
[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: We're recording today on January 3, 2024. Welcome to the new year, bringing you all the
[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_01]: news you can use this week. And I'm your host, Stacy Harris, Chief Research Officer and
[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Managing Partner for Sapient Insights Group, a research and advisory firm. And joining
[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: me today for the conversation is my co-host, Cliff Stevenson, Director of Research and
[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Principal Analyst for Sapient Insights Group. Cliff, what a year to get things started off.
[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We're in 2024 already. How did this happen? How did the holidays already come and go at
[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: this point?
[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Right. I still have not yet written 2024 or 2023 incorrectly on the check yet. Not that
[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: anyone writes checks anymore.
[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Can we break checks anymore? I was just going to say, yeah. I don't know that my kids
[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: wouldn't even know what those are anymore.
[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. But yeah, I thought-
[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We decided this was going to be a fun week because there's not a lot of business news,
[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: but there is a lot of news still going on in the tech space. So I think the tea is going
[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to be a lot of interesting stuff that happened last year and some new stuff this year. Right?
[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. I thought we'd bring out some of the vintage flavors, talk about what some
[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_02]: of our favorite cups were earlier in the year. Some of the fun stories, some of
[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: the bigger stories I found a couple that I found were pretty interesting going back
[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: to the archives, just sort of recapping what a year it's been, both for the HR tech world,
[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: but also for us. I just come off a meeting when we were talking to some of the people
[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: to handle our marketing as you'll hear at the end, Kelly Kelly and everyone at Brand
[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Method Media, and just the really sort of explosive growth that we've seen. And
[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that's thanks to you, the listeners. So thank you so much for that. Over 10,
[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: 15, 20% growth in some months. We're reaching the 100 or the 10,000 download mark.
[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I like the 100,000 where you're heading, but I'll take 10,000 right now. Yeah.
[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Challenge to everyone out there. Speaking of that, one of the big challenges
[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: that we had for the HR community really for the last few years, even before
[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I joined, this has been my first year. So that was pretty amazing. Great year
[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_02]: to be in was this whole idea of the 55 by 25 and seeing that larger percentage
[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: of HR groups at their organizations that are being seen as strategic partners.
[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And we finally saw huge growth that this year reaching a 50% mark going up
[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: 4% from a previous high. So just amazing, all of you out there both supporting us
[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and just doing what you do. I think that was kind of my biggest
[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: exciting moment of the year. I mean, obviously we have our big paper and lots
[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_02]: of stuff to go through, but that was one that stood out to me for sure.
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 2023 was really quite amazing when you think about it.
[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Not only is just the podcast has been fun, right? This is our fourth year,
[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: your first full year, right? So it's we've really been, I think, on this
[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_01]: journey of understanding what's happening in the HR tech space, but also
[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of understanding who Sapien Insights is, right? We started off
[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: in 2020 during the pandemic, both with our organization and as a doing
[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: our podcast and sort of trying to sort of understand how we were taking
[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the research paper that had been done for so long under a lot of other
[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: brands and building it into the organization with my partners, Terry Zipper
[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and Susan Richards. And it's been exciting to sort of travel this
[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: path of developing sort of an approach to how we want to gather
[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: data and share it and support the HR technology community and support
[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_01]: the HR community as a whole. I think that's been the exciting thing is
[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: we've broadened the scope of what we're talking a lot about.
[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you joined last year, really this was almost like your first
[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: week last year because you think you joined like the week or two weeks
[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: before Christmas last year, didn't you?
[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: That's exactly right. In fact, I was looking in my first podcast
[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: would have been this one because although I joined, yeah, there was
[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of just ramping up doing this sort of HR stuff, right?
[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Getting the paperwork in order, learning the culture.
[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, I was doing, I was thinking of those sort of Spotify
[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_02]: wrapped sort of things that everyone gets and thinking about our podcast with that.
[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was looking and these are sort of rough estimates, but we talked
[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: about over, let's see, over 125 stories last year.
[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: A give or take, yeah, because we cover about five to ten per, right?
[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: We do about two per month.
[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But there's somewhere if there's a really big story, we'll talk about just that
[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: for a while. And of course, there's kind of slower times like now,
[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: but still going through all that, which means we're mentioning
[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: just about the same number of companies.
[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes there's multiple companies in one and sometimes we're talking
[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: about the same company over time, but over 100 different companies
[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: talked about over 35 to 50 people that we sort of linked to on LinkedIn
[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: or on Twitter or now X. That was something that happened this year.
[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Almost forgot about that one.
[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I couldn't even tell you how many topics, although certainly AI was a big one.
[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That was one of the stories I was mentioning that we'll talk about a little
[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_02]: little bit is that it started the year as like, oh, here's a little
[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: interesting story about AI to think about regulating it back in February.
[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And by December, we had full executive orders
[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_02]: coming from the White House and full EU regulations.
[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Well, and it's funny because in February of every year is when
[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: we actually really sit down to redesign any questions that are going on
[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: for the research and the big annual survey.
[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And I can remember last year in February, it was just an inkling.
[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Chet T.P. was out there, but it still wasn't like mainstream news yet.
[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It was this thing that you were hearing kind of on the edges.
[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember us sitting down going, we need to add some questions
[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: about artificial intelligence this year.
[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: We've always had questions about adoption and a couple of things,
[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: but we needed to add some questions about ethics and how people were
[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: managing it and what they were using with it.
[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And then by the time the survey was out in May of that year,
[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it was a full blown on sort of the market was shifting as we were talking about it,
[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: basically, right? Every week you would come out and there'd be something new
[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_01]: to talk about in the space.
[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, as much as I think that I hate to sort of label what one whole year was about,
[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say that that 2023 was the year that AI changed its trajectory.
[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It was no longer just a future vision, a conversation about what we could or might be
[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: doing. I think, yes, last year it really came into something where
[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: it was something we could see in our day to day lives.
[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was unique.
[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's going to be a year that we'll look back on and say,
[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_01]: boy, this is really when things shifted, right?
[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. I think back as we were talking about this, it really does show
[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: some good prescience on your part and on our part as well.
[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: When we were sitting there in that February meeting talking about the questions we need to ask,
[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: because as you and I were going out there after we had gathered this data,
[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: we were able to talk about things like what is your organization's
[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_02]: code of ethics around AI as opposed to what I saw and no offense to anyone else.
[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But just it was very surface level.
[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the data I was seeing around AI because they hadn't really anticipated
[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: how much it would grow.
[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of us are you using AI organization?
[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting, of course.
[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm also thinking about we were able to gather data of what is your plan?
[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: What is your strategic plan for AI?
[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: What sort of rules and regulations are you following?
[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_02]: How are you using it?
[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: What specific applications rather than just do you have it?
[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to take chances.
[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_02]: There's plenty of questions in that survey.
[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It's certainly not short and some things come to life.
[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: But I was really glad we were able to capture that because it allowed us
[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_02]: to have more in-depth conversations with all of you when we are doing these
[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_02]: live events and doing these webinars.
[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's really just amazing to think back on as we're starting 2024,
[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: what's it going to be this time?
[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, that's a good question, right?
[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And February is just around the corner and we'll be looking at the questions.
[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So what is the topics that we're going to need to be focused on next year?
[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Got some inkling about it.
[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll probably talk in a little bit about it.
[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We're getting ready to do a webinar on January 24th with our good friends over at IMA
[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: who were distributors of the survey had hit enough numbers
[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: in their distribution process to get a webinar through the process.
[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we decided to do a joint effort with them called HR Tech State of the Union.
[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: That's, I think, going to be January 24th that week.
[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It's at 1 p.m. Eastern.
[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're going to be talking a little bit about what we saw in the data
[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and what we're planning on sort of looking at this year.
[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So just if anybody is kind of looking at where they can get some insight into maybe
[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: looking forward, I would recommend attending that webinar because I think you and I both
[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_01]: are going to be brainstorming what are the topics we're going to talk about in the survey this year.
[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. And of course, we'd love to hear from you anyone listening to this.
[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: If you've got some ideas of things you would like to know, things you
[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: are curious about or things you think you will want to know about in terms of data that we gather,
[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: come to the webinar, ask us live or just you can email us here.
[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: We always have all of our socials and all of our email, which is easy enough, right?
[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just either of our names Cliff or Stacy at SAPI and Insights Group.
[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We'd like to hear what you think will be big in 2024.
[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. But yeah, there was definitely the AI.
[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Another thing that it wasn't as big, but there was a lot of deals going on.
[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: We talked a lot about it in sort of bits and pieces.
[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So much so, I think Stacy, we were laughing in the green room beforehand
[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that we'd almost forgotten about some of these deals,
[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_02]: even though they were just absolutely massive.
[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Probably I think the biggest one,
[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is again, my memory can be a little hazy going all the way back,
[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to go through all the notes.
[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But Silver Lake Capital buying Qualtrics,
[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: acquiring Qualtrics for $12.5 billion USD,
[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe is the biggest one in the HR tech space.
[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_02]: There were a few others, $1 billion for Reward Gateway being bought by Eden Red
[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: when Zoom bought Word Vivo.
[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember us talking about that for a while.
[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Bequam buying analytics, higher view, acquiring modern hire,
[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: which certainly didn't lead any confusion.
[00:10:40] Yeah.
[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember being at HR tech.
[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: That was pretty amazing this year.
[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll jump to that topic in a second, but just being like,
[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: okay, who bought whom?
[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Because so many companies either have the word pay
[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're more hire in their name.
[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: If we can ask one thing of all the vendors out there,
[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_01]: be a little more innovative in your naming conventions.
[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That's your New Year's resolution we're giving to you.
[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You know your new pay, you don't have to put it in the name.
[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting you talk about the investments
[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and the any acquisitions and everything.
[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Anita Lankin, who is a good friend of ours,
[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_01]: she writes a future of work
[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and has a new book on payroll
[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and a new book on pay equity.
[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And she does sort of analysis every year
[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: on basically how much spending has been taking place
[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: on investments in the HR tech space.
[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And she found that 2023 was 45% less than 2022.
[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We knew 2021 and 2022 were just big years
[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: for new HR tech investment.
[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: We came out of COVID, I think the whole world
[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_01]: was sort of we're going to invest a lot.
[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And I wasn't surprised by that.
[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I told her, I said, what I saw from investors
[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think this is something to be aware of
[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: is that people got into HR technology
[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: because they saw the problems
[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and they said, oh, we can fix that.
[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And then almost all the investors generally kind of,
[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_01]: we would find them afterwards
[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_01]: coming to sort of talk to us,
[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_01]: hit that wall of, oh, HR is more complex than I realized.
[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just a sales tool or a marketing tool.
[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's different regional issues,
[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: different country issues, different state issues.
[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you just started to see quickly then sort of
[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: now I think what we're hearing more of
[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: is that yes, the market's softening a little bit,
[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_01]: but not that much.
[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It really is that I think the investors are becoming
[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: more savvy or at least they're asking better questions
[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and those companies who are doing better
[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_01]: or those who come with are basically people
[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: who have some experience in the HR space
[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: so they understand what they're getting into.
[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So that Silver Lake acquisition
[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: is a really good example of that.
[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's a huge investment they made in Qualtrics.
[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: They purchased the last remaining shares
[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: that SAP owned after they had sort of sold off part of theirs.
[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's important to know that Silver Lake is not,
[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_01]: they actually also have some other big names
[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: in their portfolio, including Achievers,
[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: one of the largest rewards and recognition tools
[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: in the market, as well as Siegid.
[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm never going to sure if I say Siegid's right.
[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, you're taking fridge listeners.
[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they are sort of a combined payroll talent suite.
[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: They have a bunch of brands under them.
[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Talent software was purchased by them.
[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, lots of industry specific
[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_01]: softwares in the HR space.
[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So they already had some experience
[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_01]: when it comes to came to the HR space.
[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: They had a couple of other solutions
[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that they also had offloaded recently,
[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I think for Silver Lake.
[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's interesting, I think,
[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to see how this space is changing a little bit
[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that having experience in HR helps a lot, right?
[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. I was thinking about this.
[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't mean to spring this on you,
[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_02]: because I know this wasn't in our, when we talked before,
[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_02]: but I was just thinking about the stat
[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you were talking about in terms of investment.
[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember right, I had left for vacation listeners.
[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: What I'm saying, before I left,
[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what I'm referring to.
[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But you had been doing some analysis
[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_02]: on organizational spending.
[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember we were kind of racking our brains
[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_02]: to wrap our heads around organizational spending in 2023
[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and sort of predictions for 2024.
[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_02]: A little different than sort of institutional financial firms
[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: buying HR tech.
[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But do you remember what the sort of outcome of that was?
[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: What were we looking at the increase
[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: in spending in HR tech overall
[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_02]: at the organizational level?
[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's sort of an interesting sort of dynamic
[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: because if you looked at our data,
[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: it felt a little bit,
[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and we definitely saw this,
[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: like you said, pulling back, right?
[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But not a huge pulling back
[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and not in all categories, right?
[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll have some,
[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_01]: we're actually getting ready to put a small paper out
[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_01]: to a little bit of an announcement about some of that data.
[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So watch for our press release on this
[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's really, I think the thing about data
[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and understanding any kind of data
[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: that you get in the market is understanding
[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_01]: how to read it and in what context to read it in.
[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And so in this particular case,
[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: us being able to slice and dice by companies
[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_01]: of every size made a big difference.
[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_01]: What we really found is that large companies actually
[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: will actually be spending a little bit more next year.
[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01]: They're still on this increased planning space, right?
[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And mid-market organizations as well
[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_01]: are either staying the same or sort of increasing slightly
[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: in a lot of areas of their HR technology spending.
[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: SMBs are definitely holding
[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and dropped their investments quite a bit
[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: in the previous years.
[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And SMBs for us is under 500 employees.
[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And we even went down to 200 employees
[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and it didn't change much.
[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't until you got to under 100 employees
[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that we saw that there was a real dramatic change
[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: in some of that spending plans.
[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think when you look at it,
[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: people kind of like, yeah, the market's tough, things are...
[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's interesting.
[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same kind of language I hear being used
[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: about the economics right now, right?
[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_01]: That with the interest rates,
[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of where they're at and where the market's at,
[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: even in other countries versus the US,
[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: it's not just us,
[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: is that the economy is having a soft landing
[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_01]: is the term I hear a lot.
[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's where...
[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel that that's kind of what we're seeing
[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: in the HR tech space.
[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Look, you probably aren't going to be seeing this rapid growth
[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: that we saw coming out of COVID in some cases, right?
[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You're definitely not going to see
[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: like double-jit growth in any area
[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: unless you're in a green space market
[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01]: or like an Asia Pacific market
[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_01]: where you're primarily going to see sort of doubling
[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: of what is smaller investments originally.
[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_01]: But you are going to, I think,
[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_01]: continue to see investments this year at least,
[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: especially in the large and mid-market spaces
[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: on the HR tech investments.
[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's important for buyers
[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_01]: to realize because I think there's oftentimes this...
[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Headlines drive decisions.
[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Perception oftentimes outranks
[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01]: what is really happening behind the scenes.
[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's important for the HR buyers
[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_01]: to be able to explain to their executive leaders
[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_01]: that even though you hear the HR companies
[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: are downsizing,
[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: HR tech is...
[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Or not, but technology companies are downsizing
[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and technology companies are having a rough time right now.
[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_01]: The market as a whole isn't
[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and we're definitely seeing that
[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: there people are still investing heavily in the HR space.
[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it goes along with that whole idea
[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: of becoming more strategic too.
[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And it remind me of something that I was thinking about
[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: when thinking of the year was...
[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember being somewhat surprised
[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that the ability for HR tech, the event,
[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: the HR technology expo,
[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: to have really rebounded in the last few years.
[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean obviously like all live events
[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: hurt very badly by the pandemic years.
[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But was quite pleased to see the activity,
[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the sort of energy on the floor.
[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And we had some great video kind of everyone coming in at once
[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: from when we were on the floor,
[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_02]: but also seeing all the startup pavilion.
[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And it'll be interesting to see that momentum
[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and what that sort of looks like for next year.
[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Or for this year I should say,
[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm down.
[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I've already made the first mistake.
[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: 2024 this year.
[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would agree.
[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I think live events are definitely back
[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_01]: based off of what we saw last year.
[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Every conference we went to was pretty well booked up.
[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I went to an event where I heard,
[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_01]: oh, we just didn't get as many people as expected
[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_01]: in vendor events or the industry events,
[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_01]: the HR technology conference,
[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: or some of the smaller SHIRM events,
[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: those kind of things, right?
[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But...
[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: There were some global political problems
[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that were causing events overseas
[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: to not see the attendance being as high.
[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But there's no way to predict that.
[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So...
[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was good to see, I think, people back in person.
[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the reasons that we made the decision
[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: to, well, next year,
[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: that again same thing this year,
[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_01]: to take what was a short sort of virtual workshop
[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that we'd been doing for quite some time
[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and turn it into sort of a six month cohort workshop
[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: on building an Adaptable HR system strategy
[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: because we had been getting a lot of requests
[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_01]: for people who wanted to participate
[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: in something where they can connect with people
[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and have more interaction, right?
[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And also that was something directly,
[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: because we always ask you as listeners
[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: to give us feedback that some of the feedback
[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_02]: we got from our events, like we want more.
[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02]: We want more chances to interact.
[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_02]: We want this to be longer
[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and have more opportunity
[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_02]: just into our particular organization.
[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's part of why we created this new event.
[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_01]: The workshop, yeah.
[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_01]: It works.
[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited about it.
[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if anybody's interested in it,
[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_01]: let us know, drop us a DM
[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_01]: or send us an email
[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and we'll send you the details on it.
[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01]: But it's also in our newsletter this year.
[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So Cliff, we've talked a little bit about the hot topics.
[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked a little bit about
[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: so the biggest deals.
[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked a little bit about spending
[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and what we saw both the survey and events.
[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think also you had pulled a list of
[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_01]: just the quirkiest things
[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that we talked about last year, right?
[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And I say that with the truth.
[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully it isn't dating me,
[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_01]: but you know, maybe quirk is a word, right?
[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe it doesn't ever use.
[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's exactly, I think, the term
[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: when we started looking at this.
[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like there was some unique stuff last year, right?
[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we did.
[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: As I mentioned, a couple of the stories that set out to me
[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: only because of how funny it was to look back,
[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: not that the stories themselves are funny,
[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: that on as early as March 7th,
[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was the first time we started mentioning AI,
[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: at least in 2023, of course, we brought up before.
[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Just saying EOC is going to draft some guidelines of saying,
[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: hey, if you're using AI for hiring,
[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: there should be some regulations around it.
[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You should have some transparency.
[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And by the end of October, the story was
[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Biden signs AI executive order
[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: of most expansive regulatory attempt yet.
[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's how quickly things move.
[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: We make a lot of jokes about government moving slowly,
[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: but you just shows how big AI had become
[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: that it went from EOC, sort of one of the more
[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: minor departments to the president is getting involved here.
[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So there was that.
[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But along with the AI, some fun ones that I
[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_02]: was looking for and that I pulled up was Artifact,
[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: the news app.
[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: They had some AI text to speech stuff
[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_02]: where you can have the news read to you by Stubb Dog
[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_02]: or Gwyneth Paltrow.
[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I made the joke at the time that these are things
[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you just don't expect to hear on an HR Tech podcast.
[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: McDonald's also using AI, using Google's
[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: garden, their cloud for their AI assistant,
[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_02]: create an AI chat bot named Ask Pickles,
[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: which I don't think I'd mentioned at the time,
[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: but since then they've created a YouTube video
[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that you can click on and it's just as off-putting.
[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: McDonald's we love you.
[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. That's a challenge everybody.
[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Go out and do look at the Ask Pickles YouTube show
[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_01]: because now I want to see everybody's reaction to that
[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and send us the pictures.
[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And then at the time, this was probably my favorite
[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_02]: phrase that I ever got to say during the year.
[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_02]: This is my own fun on the podcast.
[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We were talking about the layoffs at Epic Games in McFortnight,
[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: so they're probably the biggest.
[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And as you mentioned earlier, Stacy, each industry
[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: is sort of beholden to its own rhythms.
[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Right? And gaming industry was destroyed by layoffs last year.
[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: That was definitely the biggest story anything.
[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Gaming, which right now is the biggest
[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: entertainment sector, was just wiped out.
[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And during that whole thing about Epic Games,
[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_02]: writing these layoff letters and it just didn't really
[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: jive and people were really happy.
[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_02]: At the same time, a maker of a game called Had a Full Boyfriend,
[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: which is a pigeon dating sim,
[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_02]: said she had not been receiving royalties.
[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, since December 12th this year,
[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: she has received her royalties.
[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank goodness that the people making the pigeon dating sims
[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: are getting paid.
[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I can keep saying pigeon dating sim.
[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Next year we definitely got to do this.
[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Updates on the stories that we talked about,
[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_01]: what really happened afterwards, right?
[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01]: My imagination is that her...
[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Because now I'm feeling better that the pigeon dating sim lady
[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: got her royalties that she deserved, right?
[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there you go.
[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone was probably worried.
[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Hadamola, that's the name of the woman that made it.
[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_02]: She has received her royalty payments
[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and she's owed for the last two years.
[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I can only assume that they heard our podcast,
[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: got nervous and immediately paid everyone.
[00:23:04] Right.
[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Were there any...
[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I know that you and I talked about some that sort of...
[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We remembered through the times,
[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: just any of the big stories or anything.
[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Any just memories that you have.
[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I know I remember going with you and I,
[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_02]: seeing a chin blossom's live in the home desert.
[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: That was pretty fun.
[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That was really awesome.
[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I will say that.
[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So we had a lot of good events last year.
[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Most of them towards the fall, I will say.
[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: We did a great dinner in New York City,
[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: which was fabulous.
[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Where we had an opportunity to meet with quite a few organizations.
[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: That was a cornerstone event where they asked us to come
[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and just talk a little bit about what's going on
[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: with skills management and learning.
[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: That was a great...
[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: I think, first of all, it was a good venue
[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: that we got to go to with some really amazing drinks.
[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But more importantly, the conversation got really deep
[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and really interesting, I think, about how learning organizations
[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: were handling this shift to online learning
[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: was still a thing that organizations had been trying
[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_01]: to work towards but hadn't quite gotten there.
[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And then overnight with COVID,
[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_01]: they went from face-to-face to online learning almost immediately.
[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we were having some real interesting conversations
[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: about how that was now coming back to different layers of learning models.
[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So that was really fun.
[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And then yes, we did do...
[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I think HR Tech Conference was a blast this year.
[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: For me, not only was it amazing to get a chance to see everyone
[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and have the event be such a big conversation point,
[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_01]: but I think our team was there in full force
[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_01]: with our pink and our logos.
[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And everywhere we went,
[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: we got compliments on the pink bags
[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and the pink pocket thing.
[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think this year we might show up
[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_01]: with some shoes with pink on them this year as a goal.
[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I've already bought mine.
[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So that was fun just because as a team,
[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: we got a chance to do our first client and customer dinner event
[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: at the really good sushi place in the Mandalay Bay event there.
[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was nice
[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_01]: because we generally have talked to a lot to our clients
[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: around the years,
[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but we don't always get a chance to host them all together
[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and give them a chance to talk to each other.
[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was really cool.
[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: We had a couple of clients from Canada
[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and a couple of people from Ohio
[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and a couple of people from Florida and Atlanta.
[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And they were all talking about the different regional differences
[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: they were seeing on the food and stuff.
[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a cool event.
[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think, yeah, I will have to say
[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that the keynote we did in Palm Desert Springs, right?
[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: That's where we were at.
[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: By far the Jim Blossom Concert,
[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: just because I felt like I was a teenager again.
[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And I can remember, it was really cute
[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: because there was someone who kind of came up afterwards
[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and said, someone told us they were surprised
[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: you were out there dancing.
[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I do enjoy having fun too.
[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I went to some, I went to an event in Denver.
[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I was 15-5.
[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me.
[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And they had a llama take photos with a llama.
[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And they put these moments in your like,
[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: you look back over the year
[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're like, I've got a really great job.
[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, this is really nice.
[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01]: We love to get to do it with people who are,
[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: like all the HR practitioners who are out there, right?
[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing is that you get into these rooms
[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and I know sometimes, oh, your whole job is just traveling.
[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And there is a lot of travel
[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and there is a lot of hard work in preparing for these events
[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and making sure we have the right content
[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and making sure that we have a message
[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that's of value to everybody who's in the room.
[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes it's just so much fun
[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_01]: just to sit down and have a conversation
[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_01]: with the, we had a great conversation
[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: with the head of HR and payroll for Mary Biddoe, right?
[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Who they had skincare product company.
[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was just when you get a chance to talk to them
[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: about the real life issues like compensation challenges
[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and challenges with onboarding.
[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the stuff that really I think
[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: makes all the hard work that we put in worth it, right?
[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's exactly it.
[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I got the chance to be on a sort of live podcast panel.
[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And Jamie, I'm forgetting your last name.
[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I find you've got your first one name
[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: but from TrustRadius and his head of HR there
[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and just hearing sort of when we talk about it as data,
[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: right? And as numbers and then hearing about
[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: these sort of things being implemented
[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and how you work with people and partnerships
[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_02]: that you have through the organization
[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and you talk about it all the times they see is that
[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the things we can, till we're blue in the face
[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: say 80% of organizations to do this, do this,
[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_02]: but it won't work unless you create relationships
[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_02]: with the people in your organization, right?
[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And make sure that you understand just as we do
[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: what's most important to them and what are they going to achieve?
[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: What are they trying to do?
[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And then together you can really achieve something great
[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: for your entire organization.
[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought 2023 really showed that.
[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And we saw it, we didn't see the data
[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_02]: from all those little individual qualitative anecdotal moments.
[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: We saw this big swell of all of a sudden,
[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah, there's a lot more strategic viewpoints.
[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot more of just a overview of doing
[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: what's best for the organization
[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and what's also just best for everyone
[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and without those two things being opposed.
[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was a really great year I thought.
[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously as I said, there are certain industries
[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that were hit hard by layoffs and my heart goes out to you
[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but I think overall we're poised really well
[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: for a great 2024 as a whole, I mean as an HR tech industry
[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: but of course we hear it, see it by the inside certainly.
[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We're excited about where things are headed
[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and maybe just to kind of wrap things up.
[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I know we want to talk a little bit about the stuff
[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01]: that we had sort of seen last year, what was growing and not.
[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said, the tech industry,
[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_01]: the industry overall that had the hardest time
[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: was the technology industry last year, right?
[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: They definitely saw downsizing,
[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_01]: we definitely saw layoffs.
[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_01]: At the end of last year we saw companies like Deloitte
[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and Accenture do quite a bit of layoffs
[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to Accenture in particular, laid off about 18,000 people.
[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a real thing that people are dealing with
[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and dealt with over the holidays.
[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But I also think there's a lot of positives
[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: like you mentioned that came out
[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: the work that we all put into surviving COVID
[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and more importantly making sure we did it in a human way
[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and my hope is that the AI conversation doesn't
[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: change how we think about our roles in HR.
[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the next couple of years are going to be hard.
[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_01]: AI is going to make our jobs harder
[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: because there's going to be a lot more risk.
[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be a lot more people pushing the envelope,
[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot more of our executives asking us to do things that
[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: are really changing how we think about our interactions
[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_01]: with our employees, our candidates and our customers.
[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think HR is going to have to sometimes
[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_01]: stand the line of what's the difference between being
[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: innovative versus being ethical versus being sort of just
[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_01]: in regulation.
[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a tough place to be for anybody,
[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: but particularly for someone who's already got a lot of
[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: regulations built into our jobs.
[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So I do think that it's important for us to acknowledge
[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that and what we're looking forward to in 2024.
[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_01]: But I also think if we get past these couple of years
[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_01]: they're going to be a little bit tough.
[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that the AI explosion is really going to allow us
[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_01]: to, if we do it right, if we hold the line of ethics and
[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_01]: data integrity and those kind of things and understanding
[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: the biases and understanding the limitations of AI,
[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_01]: it can truly free us up to do the things that are
[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: most important, which is being humans with
[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_01]: other human beings, spending the time when someone's
[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_01]: lost someone to have the conversation while the AI
[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_01]: is taking care of all the paperwork in the background,
[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: spending the time with a new mother or with a new
[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_01]: father or with a new family who's adopted a child to
[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_01]: understand how their needs are changing while maybe AI
[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_01]: is handling all of the processes to get things
[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_01]: invested in their next steps that they need to take as
[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: a family.
[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Just spending the time talking to someone about
[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_01]: where they want to be in their career while AI
[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: is giving options in the background, I think
[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_01]: those are all things that are really opportunities
[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: in our world, but it's we're going to have to be
[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: diligent over the next couple of years to make sure
[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_01]: it turns into that kind of a powerful change.
[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Very well said. Good message to start to hear.
[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We had a couple of news stories, Cliff, though,
[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that we did want to touch on.
[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And was there, did you want to touch those or do
[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_01]: we want to hold those over till next week or the
[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: next time?
[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's hold those over. There was really, I don't
[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: believe unless you've got something specific,
[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I think nothing too crazy, right?
[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nothing on the HR side. I think it is probably
[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: worth noting if you haven't been watching what's
[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: going on with the chat GPT, there is a lawsuit that
[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: just got put out by New York Times, I believe it is.
[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's worth watching how that goes because it
[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_01]: is about content and content ownership.
[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we'll talk a lot about that when
[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_01]: we get together in the next two weeks and our
[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_01]: next podcast. I think there's also some updates
[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_01]: in Epic Games, that exact conversation we just
[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: had where they've actually won their lawsuit against
[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Google. And what does that mean for a company like
[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Epic and how that and for the ability to use
[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: its payments inside of these free technologies
[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: that are accessible through adoptions and
[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_01]: download tools and what are some of those risks.
[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And those are actually all things that are
[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: going to have an impact on the HR technology space.
[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the most important thing for all of us
[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: in HR to be who are on the development design,
[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the support side is to realize that the most
[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_01]: interesting innovations are probably happening
[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: in other areas because that's going to have
[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: the big impacts on us. And we need to be
[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: keeping an eye out what's going on beyond just HR.
[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So that would be... So maybe we'll have that
[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_01]: as our podcast in two weeks, Cliff.
[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that sounds wonderful. Get back into the
[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: swing of things, but I thought it would be
[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_02]: nice and where as we did kind of talk about
[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_02]: 2023 and what people can expect in 2024.
[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really looking forward to it.
[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you... Okay, so just as we're wrapping up,
[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_01]: do you have two things you think everyone
[00:33:32] [SPEAKER_01]: should keep an eye on for next year then?
[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Or for this year now, let's say?
[00:33:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah. Well, one thing and you mentioned it.
[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Last year before the AI sort of blew up,
[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: we were talking about what we thought was
[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: going to be one of the big stories.
[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And we both agreed that the idea of skills
[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_02]: just sort of skills management coming to the forefront,
[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_02]: rather than sort of being a side thing,
[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: but really getting involved in all aspects of HR.
[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And that did happen. It was just getting
[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: overshadowed by so much that was happening
[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_02]: with the AI story. But I do think that the concept
[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_02]: of skills and being able to inventory them
[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and being able to plan strategically
[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: with skills is still an ongoing conversation.
[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it'll rise back up sort of to the front of mind
[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_02]: as we go through this. And of course,
[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_02]: there's going to be some overlap, right?
[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be some AI usage of taxonomies
[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: of skills and that sort of thing.
[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Another thing that we talked a little bit
[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: about post-HR tech and I still see
[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: is this idea of the marriage of sort of
[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_02]: the functional day-to-day aspects of work
[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_02]: or your transactional work and how that is being blended into HR.
[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We talked a little bit about how tactical everyday things
[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_02]: like payroll and time management can actually lead to
[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: broader strategic movements within HR,
[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: but we're seeing like productivity apps
[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and new software come out.
[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_02]: That was a lot of that startup when we saw the HR tech expo
[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: where they're marrying these ideas of
[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: how do you get HR to the people doing their jobs at the moment,
[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: whether that be training, whether that be the documentation they need,
[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02]: compliance, just as you said,
[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: being able to look up something for their family.
[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: What are my benefits? I need this now with the item
[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that I'm using for safety regulations
[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: or for looking up inventory.
[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think those two things will...
[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They were already existing stories,
[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: but I think they're going to be
[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_02]: something we're going to see more and more of
[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_02]: because we're already seeing investments being made in those areas.
[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I agree with both those.
[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I think those are both big areas of conversation.
[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I would add my top two topics for that show that are going to be...
[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I think everyone should be paying attention to
[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and everyone should maybe be thinking a little bit differently about
[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_01]: is one is compensation.
[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're going to see a real shift
[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_01]: in compensation management and the approach
[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_01]: both the systems and businesses are taking to compensation
[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_01]: because of not just the pay equity conversation
[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and the pay transparency conversation,
[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_01]: which is sort of bubbling up because of all of the regulations
[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and requirements around that that are coming into fruition.
[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But also because I think people are probably underestimating
[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: how much data we have in the compensation space
[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: around our sort of benchmarking and tool sets
[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that is probably going to roll into this skills management conversation.
[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I think people who are in the Comp Space know and understand
[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_01]: that this is a real big opportunity
[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think we're going to see some changes there
[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think it's going to open the eyes of a lot of people
[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_01]: once that compensation data might be this next space
[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that really takes off and changes this year.
[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_01]: The other one probably that I would say is
[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_01]: not being talked about right now,
[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_01]: but I think based off of what we're seeing in the data
[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and where we think new to the conversations are going to go is
[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_01]: we know payroll was a big topic now and global payroll.
[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to see probably more investments in that,
[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: but I do think that the latter part of this year
[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to start to see some changes in the time
[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and attendance and absence and leave spaces
[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_01]: because those are areas that have not changed dramatically.
[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of new players in this space.
[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing some real interesting innovations
[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_01]: come out in this space
[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and as we become a global market,
[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_01]: more and more organizations are requiring
[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I think more wider capabilities,
[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: not just industry capabilities here.
[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that I think that's a latter part of probably this year
[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and early into next year, but those are the two areas
[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say that we're not talking about
[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_01]: what we probably should be though.
[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So cool stuff as we're getting into the next year Cliff.
[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. I could not be more excited.
[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know we're getting to the end of our time.
[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So I just wanted to, as we're wrapping up today,
[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_01]: a couple of big announcements pushes.
[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: For those of you who follow us on a regular basis,
[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you know that the big annual HR system survey white paper
[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: has been out since October.
[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It is available in the research marketplace.
[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great gift for anyone looking to assess
[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: or purchase new HR technology,
[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: building an HR system strategy
[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: or looking to understand the competitive
[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: HR technology landscape.
[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_01]: We covered over 200 HR vendors in this year's report
[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and had input from over 5,000 HR technology
[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_01]: and HR practitioners, largest we've ever had at this point.
[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're really proud of it and excited about it.
[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're still in the business of looking at that kind of data,
[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: you can download it off our marketplace.
[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, as I noted, we'll be doing this building
[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and adaptability to our system strategy,
[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_01]: what works workshop?
[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a six month program, Shelf to C-suite.
[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Please drop us a line.
[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're interested in participating,
[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to do a beta course on that
[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_01]: starting probably in the next few months.
[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is a really good opportunity
[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: to get in on the first cohort.
[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_01]: As I noted, we have January 24th,
[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the HR Tech State of the Union webinar.
[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to sign up for that, go to the IMA website.
[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be at 1pm Eastern on that day.
[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Both Cliff and I are going to be delivering that
[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and you don't want to miss it.
[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And then as also go to our website,
[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: sign up for a newsletter to get ongoing updates
[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_01]: on research launches where we'll be speaking or visiting
[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and when you can participate in the annual survey,
[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: which is opening May 1st to the public.
[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And be sure to listen to our sister,
[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_01]: HR Huddle podcast, HR.
[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: We have a problem hosted by our CEO,
[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Terry Zipper.
[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_01]: These HR Huddle episodes are important.
[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you like them and want to support them,
[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_01]: please be sure to subscribe and leave a ratings
[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and review where you grab your podcast
[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_01]: to stay up to date with immediate breaking HR Tech news
[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and get all the behind the scenes content.
[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_01]: You can follow us at Safiant Insights on LinkedIn,
[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: X now, not Twitter and Instagram.
[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And thanks Cliff.
[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for all the work that you do
[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: and pulling all the work together around this.
[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for our production team,
[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: including Brand Method Media Group,
[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: who helps us produce our podcast
[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_01]: run by their amazing founder, Kelly Kelly.
[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Our marketing team, Lisa Renko and Summer Orlano,
[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_01]: who make sure all of this gets put together,
[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: packaged and distributed so you can access it every week.
[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And then thanks to our listeners and the community,
[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_01]: we couldn't do this without you.
[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You are what make this a joy to participate in
[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_01]: and deliver each week.
[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And finally, that's it for this episode
[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_01]: of Spilling the Tea on HR Tech.
[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_01]: We hope it's been just the brew you needed
[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_01]: to start the engines running this week.
[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back in just two weeks
[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_01]: with another pot of boiling hot HR Tech updates
[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and insights.
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