Spilling the Tea on HR Tech: Cliff and Stacey weigh in from the conference circuit on industry top leadership moves, new partnerships, and intriguing AI tech roll-outs.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the HR Huddle podcast presented by Sapient Insights Group, the ultimate resource

[00:00:09] for all things HR.

[00:00:12] It's time to get in the huddle.

[00:00:21] Welcome to Spill in the Tea on HR Tech where we focus on the hottest HR tech news everyone

[00:00:26] needs to know to be in the know.

[00:00:28] We break down the news of this week and help you make sense of what it means for our

[00:00:32] industry and how it can impact your organization.

[00:00:35] We're recording today on April 23, 2024 just after tax day if you were working on your taxes

[00:00:42] bringing you all the news that you can use this week.

[00:00:44] I'm your host, Stacey Harris, Chief Research Officer and managing partner for Sapient

[00:00:49] Insights Group and our research and advisory firm and joining us today is Cliff Stevenson,

[00:00:55] my Director of Research and Principal Analyst for Sapient Insights Group.

[00:00:58] Welcome Cliff.

[00:00:59] You and I have been running all over the place this last couple of weeks.

[00:01:03] We got a little bit of a break from events earlier this month but now we're back on the

[00:01:07] road again so hopefully this is sort of coming through loud and clear because we're on our

[00:01:11] on the go recording devices today but it's been a couple of weeks hasn't it?

[00:01:16] It has been.

[00:01:17] I mean you've definitely clocked some miles in I believe you've crossed half the

[00:01:21] Pacific twice that's a full Pacific run.

[00:01:25] You've been mostly on the West Coast so a little earlier for you but I know I've been

[00:01:30] cut in the middle right at Austin.

[00:01:31] I'm in Miami now so it's been pretty good but in that time we have been able to learn

[00:01:39] about all these new things that are happening with these organizations and at the same time

[00:01:43] we've been able to stay updated thanks to our friends and the hard work you do

[00:01:47] keeping these stories going.

[00:01:48] A lot of people news, a lot of movement in organizations but also some partnerships

[00:01:54] some new product rollouts and if we have time we'll talk about some big stories coming

[00:01:58] out of the FTC actually they could have a big impact on HR and of course we'll do a little

[00:02:05] recap of what we were able to learn from these conferences and sessions that we were

[00:02:10] able to go to and we can pass on to you.

[00:02:14] It's been a busy couple of days but like you said there's also a lot of news going

[00:02:17] on it probably is just before we get started to let everybody know sort of where you

[00:02:21] and I will both be at over the next couple of days so you're still in Miami right now at

[00:02:26] the Workforce Software event correct?

[00:02:29] That's right I'm at Vision 24.

[00:02:31] I think they're calling it Ignite this year covering workforce software.

[00:02:35] When we last spoke I was heading off to Austin, Texas for Work Human.

[00:02:40] That was very interesting I think they'll be very you know just getting started at

[00:02:44] Workforce Software I think they'll be very different in terms of the culture but

[00:02:49] both have a lot of kind of exciting news in terms of the tech that we're seeing out there

[00:02:53] and we're going to talk about.

[00:02:55] Yeah and I just got back from WorkDays Innovation Summit that they had last week

[00:03:00] and now this week I am at Oracle's application event and we'll have updates

[00:03:05] probably on the next call on that because we haven't gone to any of the sessions yet

[00:03:09] this week for the first week in May full week in May I'll be at Chicago for the

[00:03:15] Cornerstone Regional Conference Connect and excited to be delivering some sessions there

[00:03:21] and then I think after that our travel slows down a little bit I'll be taking

[00:03:26] some vacation time I'll be back at a Cornerstone event in June that'll be

[00:03:30] in Orlando so if anybody's going to the Orlando Cornerstone Connect event

[00:03:33] in June we know we have a lot of friends who are going to be out at

[00:03:37] the Unleashed conference that's taking place in the upcoming couple of weeks

[00:03:40] we know Phenom had a big conference as well as Walkme we couldn't attend

[00:03:43] those we just didn't have enough arms and legs to get to everything this week

[00:03:46] and I know right now I think this week is the HR Tech Europe event it's a new one

[00:03:52] that HR Executive Magazine is putting on and then I think about two weeks ago

[00:03:56] they had the Epic conference from HR Executive Magazine so lots and lots of

[00:04:00] stuff going on people are kind of all over the business events I know

[00:04:04] there's been a couple other vendor events as well so we'll cover ones that

[00:04:07] we have insight into. The other thing happening this month which I'm very

[00:04:11] excited about is that we just wrapped up our second session for the month of our

[00:04:15] first module of the HR System Strategy Building a Strategy that Works

[00:04:21] Cohort Education Series program that's been really exciting our 10 cohort

[00:04:27] participants who are participating in our beta session going over the next

[00:04:31] six months have already completed this first module lots of good insight I'll

[00:04:36] probably be putting a blog out about that sometime in the next week or two

[00:04:38] about what we're learning and what we're seeing together so exciting stuff going

[00:04:42] on lots of education lots of events but Cliff where we want to start the

[00:04:45] conversation so that everybody gets a chance to sort of weigh in on topics

[00:04:49] that we know are impacting everybody else. Yeah well I'll tell you one that

[00:04:54] I found very interesting and they did a sort of I don't want to call it an emergency

[00:04:59] but it was a last minute announcement obviously because it was under NDA at

[00:05:04] the time but UKG gave us some news and I'm actually going to be out there for

[00:05:09] their analyst event in mid-May as you were talking about that's when we're going

[00:05:13] to start wrapping up I'll be in Las Vegas for that but before that and now

[00:05:18] this is no longer under NDA UKG has hired a new president and I should point

[00:05:23] out that they did not have a precedent before so the CEO Kristad is still

[00:05:28] there but now they have a new president Rachel Barger who comes from Cisco

[00:05:32] where you know she was the head of sales there

[00:05:36] vice president but she'll be doing more than that UKG obviously is a president

[00:05:41] specifically the president of their go-to-market so that's sales marketing

[00:05:45] and the customer relationship management so you know I think this is a real

[00:05:51] positive move for UKG you know of course women leadership you love to see it

[00:05:57] but also it shows that they know they need to take a more specific and direct view of

[00:06:05] those sort of activities right those sales and customer relationship management

[00:06:09] activities and have some oversight for that so that's pretty exciting stuff

[00:06:15] yeah this one I think is important and not only so it's a bit of a backfill almost

[00:06:20] to some extent so Kristad who was president then moved in to CRL for

[00:06:24] Erin not to now I think more than a year ago at this point they hadn't really filled

[00:06:28] what was the shoes that he had been playing we do see this a lot more in these large

[00:06:33] enterprise application we up at workday you know we have a couple co-presidents and now with

[00:06:39] Carlos Caban being this sort of primary CEO you do see people sort of really trying to

[00:06:43] figure out how do I balance all the leadership needs of an organization and so I think this

[00:06:47] is a good move for UKG I think one it's great to see more women in leadership as you and I

[00:06:52] have talked about but it's even more important I think to make sure that you have the balance

[00:06:56] and leadership across an organization and Kristad I think is an excellent job of doing

[00:07:02] the transition over the last year into his new role and I was really impressed last time we

[00:07:06] had the conversation about sort of his expansion into sort of the partnership conversations and the

[00:07:11] focus on sort of the customer needs and the broader things that a CEO has to think about

[00:07:17] but it does leave things sometimes a little bit harder sort of to keep your tabs on which is the

[00:07:23] go-to-market strategies and the sales areas and the operational elements and the financial elements

[00:07:29] and so an organization off times has to figure out how to split some of those loads for various

[00:07:33] organizations and this is a good way to do it so I'm interested in seeing what she brings to

[00:07:37] the table and her experience which it seems pretty extensive in this sort of go-to-market

[00:07:43] aspects of how she's going to sort of really engage I think a little differently with the UKG

[00:07:48] current audience and probably the UKG prospect audience right? Absolutely and we're going to talk

[00:07:55] some more people news but that was a big one that I was thinking about and both of you and I've

[00:08:00] been talking about so you know the true the true hottest tea right there but we also see

[00:08:06] something you know I don't know how what are we about 10 minutes in we haven't mentioned AI

[00:08:11] but no longer we've got some AI news of course Paycore they're going out with a use of Vizier's

[00:08:19] AI technology their V technology that's one of the proprietary AI tools that Vizier has and Paycore

[00:08:26] is going to be using that to provide those analytical insights into organizations you

[00:08:34] know specifically around pay and all the things surrounding that but just being able to give that

[00:08:41] sort of large language model ability to answer questions and find the information that you're

[00:08:48] looking for using natural language. Yeah this is going to be an interesting one I think because

[00:08:54] one Paycore was one of the first organizations to take advantage of Vizier's embedded analytics

[00:09:02] tool set right so when Vizier for the longest time was really just a tool for the largest companies

[00:09:07] the most complex global companies right as a HR analytics and people analytics solution

[00:09:12] and what they I think to reach what is I think now seven to eight thousand customers

[00:09:18] what they end up doing is sort of figuring out a model of how they could embed what their

[00:09:21] their capabilities inside of many of these tier mid-market is a better way to put a core

[00:09:27] HRMS payroll solutions that had a lot of the talent solutions had a lot of the sort of basic

[00:09:32] things but they hadn't built out their own analytics particularly in the people space

[00:09:36] and so Paycore had taken advantage of the Vizier's tool that had gone very very well for both of

[00:09:41] them this sort of V technology I think adds on to that so that when you can in natural language

[00:09:48] ask questions about things you need of your organization from an HR metrics and HR perspective

[00:09:54] the idea is that in that sort of natural language processing and that large language model that

[00:09:58] you'll be able to get a response back sort of in an easier way I think also it's probably worth noting

[00:10:03] that Paycore didn't have a help desk they don't think this is going to replace the help desk solution

[00:10:08] case management all that stuff but it was always one of those challenges for us whenever we would

[00:10:12] ask organizations about the help desks they were using inside of their organizations

[00:10:17] us meaning employee help desk we had to clarify that many people would put down pay course

[00:10:22] help desk solution because it was a HR help desk tool so it was basically there

[00:10:28] an open server environment where they would basically allow people to sort of go in and

[00:10:31] find data and information about how to do things from an HR perspective so it was an HR specific

[00:10:37] sort of help solution my bet is that this is sort of part of that dialogue is that

[00:10:42] people really value I think especially mid-market SMB a vendor who helps them navigate what is

[00:10:49] very complex sort of highly regulated industry of HR and so I think this will just add to that

[00:10:55] picture that people had that pay core was a really great help tool for them and will now

[00:11:00] sort of be an even more sort of improved help tool with the LLMs the large language models

[00:11:06] built into there I don't know Cliff though do you think is there any concern about this crossing

[00:11:13] across various systems whether you know we're using embedded large language model tools or

[00:11:19] we're not do you think that's going to have an impact on some of the decisions people are making

[00:11:24] I mean it could that's sort of the danger although I will say that one of the sort of positives

[00:11:30] that I'm noticing is this use of AI and ML and all large language models and these ideas in

[00:11:39] these sort of more specific use cases like you said rather than going across everything like

[00:11:44] trying to make this help desk just using it to answer kind of specific questions that keeps the risk a

[00:11:50] little lower yeah of course you know as you're pulling data from different systems a lot of

[00:11:54] that's going to be in those early stages you know there's not sort of classic implementation anymore

[00:12:00] but that step is still very important meaning setting up the integrations you could almost

[00:12:07] consider that the modern world of implementations right so it's just mindful of what are what is

[00:12:14] the information you're trying to get from these systems and if so are you able to provide the

[00:12:19] right data right the classic garbage in garbage out and that all needs to be thought of in that early

[00:12:24] sort of integration implementation phase even for a cloud-based technology so that you're able

[00:12:30] to get you know the right insights because if there isn't a good connection between those

[00:12:35] disparate systems you're not going to be able to get the answers you need and no amount of fancy AI

[00:12:39] technology is going to help solve that right this role to play as a human to make those decisions

[00:12:46] and it's also a good segue into the next story we saw which was from equate now that's spelled

[00:12:52] with just three three characters there little literally big Q number eight so if you're trying

[00:12:59] to find this story that's how you have to spell it but they're using an interesting

[00:13:04] case of using AI for strategic workforce planning which I really like this idea of right there's a lot

[00:13:10] more concerns and regulatory aspects of using it for things like compensation or hiring but strategic

[00:13:18] workforce planning I think is really good right of trying to find all those gaps trying to do

[00:13:25] predictions for the future you know just a sort of supply and demand you know picture that can

[00:13:30] be very complicated I'm not making it sound easy but that is a place where I think AI could

[00:13:36] play a role in taking very large data sets and sort of predict models and putting it all together

[00:13:43] to create something neat so I'll admit that I've not seen any demos beyond what's publicly

[00:13:48] available we will if equate if you're listening to this schedule it with us we're actually in

[00:13:54] the process of that right now so I actually have seen equate I saw that this would have been

[00:13:59] prior to you joining cliff equate I got a chance to review their solution about a year and a half ago

[00:14:05] now so just before you had gotten here they are a smaller station out of Australia I really had

[00:14:13] a good time sort of talking to their team they were one of the few work strategic workforce

[00:14:19] planning solutions that I had viewed that had the ability to start with a series of questions

[00:14:25] and use a technology to work backwards from that to a strategic workforce plan because

[00:14:30] one of the challenges you see in strategic workforce planning and if you talk to people

[00:14:33] who really do this for a living there's no two strategic workforce plans are like right and

[00:14:38] they oftentimes don't even start with the same question and so and that is one of the challenges

[00:14:42] a lot of times with some of the larger firms and larger HR analytics and planning tools is that

[00:14:47] they're often try to sort of think of strategic workforce planning sort of a standard process

[00:14:52] but what we know from I did about 20 or 30 interviews on this topic not too long ago and

[00:14:59] what we hear over and over again is that thing about strategic workforce planning is every company

[00:15:04] is unique so every company strategic workforce plan is unique and then they often start with

[00:15:09] very unique questions things that have to do with various things like where our employees

[00:15:13] are located or where warehouses are located or where business models are those kind of things

[00:15:17] which don't lend themselves to a standard model and I do think this is a good place like you said

[00:15:23] for artificial intelligence particularly the large language models because what it is is

[00:15:28] it's a contextualization issue right you've got to understand the context of where those

[00:15:33] questions are being asked to be able to do a really good job of giving scenarios and modeling

[00:15:39] capabilities and that is exactly to some extent what this you know so the current state of

[00:15:45] these AI models are is that they're doing a better job at contextualizing of doing a better job of

[00:15:51] having some natural questions that you can ask and get natural answers of what they aren't really

[00:15:57] great at oftentimes is knowing the difference between a right or a wrong answer to some extent

[00:16:03] right so you know where the analytics and planning tools will give you well 80 percent

[00:16:08] will do this and 20 percent will do this AI is taking that next step and saying based off

[00:16:12] of what we know here's what you should do I do think there's a lot of opportunity there to really

[00:16:18] sort of refine what these tools are doing and I haven't seen this newest solution of equates

[00:16:23] but I'm intrigued to see this we'll be getting a briefing here soon and we'll give an update on it

[00:16:27] but I do think that this is a space with the tool set that I had seen that they had a year and

[00:16:32] a half ago I'm intrigued to see how they're going to pull these two things together because

[00:16:36] I do think it was one of the more interesting workforce planning tools that I'd seen in a

[00:16:41] long time pretty bit bare bones at that point in time they were still doing some development work on

[00:16:46] it so I'm sure they've sort of gone through some updates and changes as all small businesses do

[00:16:52] and we know they've gotten a much larger number of customers who are using them but what I think

[00:16:57] is going to be interesting is how they pair that idea of not starting at the same point

[00:17:01] starting with different questions and then context and then a workforce plan I think

[00:17:06] that will be the differentiator here for this one yeah that's a great point and you know you

[00:17:10] mentioned not be able to tell right from wrong but it's also right there we always talk about the

[00:17:14] role of humans in this new world of AI and knowing which questions asked is still a very

[00:17:20] important skill that almost relates to what we were talking about prior to knowing which data

[00:17:25] you need to pull because you need to know the questions you're going to ask and the things

[00:17:28] you need to know exactly speaking of AI and sort of you know it's broader impact and

[00:17:36] the regulatory environment surrounding it there was a pretty interesting report that came out

[00:17:41] the artificial intelligence and democratic values report which has been going on for a few years

[00:17:47] three or four years but what they're really looking at is understanding how different

[00:17:52] countries and their regulatory and cultural framework approach AI and the sort of safeguards

[00:18:00] around it pretty interesting stuff because you know we live in the US and I think most of our

[00:18:06] listeners are us but it may or may not surprise you I don't know to find that United States America

[00:18:12] you know when they were looking at these rankings didn't even make the top 10 in terms of the use

[00:18:19] of AI and support of democratic values right Canada and Japan South Korea top three all tier one

[00:18:26] us in a separate tier in fact in tier two and for some of these countries it's interesting

[00:18:33] since we're talking about travel too having been in Japan and South Korea specifically

[00:18:40] they always seem to be a little ahead I remember seeing video phones in the early 2000s things like

[00:18:46] that so there's this interesting balance of being ahead on these technologies and these

[00:18:52] emerging technologies while at the same time crafting a governmental policies and cultural

[00:19:01] talking points and sort of at you know support of these technologies so you can use them in ways

[00:19:06] that actually help people's lives rather than cause any harm and again I do want to point out that

[00:19:11] doesn't mean the United States America is doing poorly you know when I say they're not top 10

[00:19:15] I think they're around 12th or 13th in this index but it does reinforce the idea that

[00:19:21] there is a broader impact of these AI tools and when we were talking about equates

[00:19:27] strategic workforce planning I can see there's a lot of potential for good there and I love seeing

[00:19:32] when AI is used in these ways that can help people's work lives better while minimizing any

[00:19:38] possible harm some of that you know comes from the how the governments are looking at but it

[00:19:44] also has to do with how you as someone who as an HR person who's in charge of selecting

[00:19:50] and deploying this technology has to think about the broader impact so that's just something

[00:19:55] to see you know as always the links will be in if not the show notes then in our LinkedIn post

[00:20:01] so you can take a look at that yourself. Yep definitely and I think we're gonna see more of

[00:20:08] that sort of assessment of how open or how connected or how like people are going to be

[00:20:14] basing a lot of judgments off of the approach regions industries countries take to AI

[00:20:22] I don't know there's a right or wrong answer here like right is it better to be

[00:20:27] more open or less open I have this conversation with my son this week about TikTok he's an avid

[00:20:32] believer in the fact that you know TikTok should be available to everyone freely and so we had some

[00:20:38] conversations about where the data was at and all those things so I think these are

[00:20:41] conversations where yet to be had right yeah absolutely so I want to talk a little bit

[00:20:48] because you know since we're on this AI talk and I know this came up quite a bit in both

[00:20:52] of our recent trips both to work day and work human but I did want to bring out a couple

[00:20:59] you know just moves though he's seen from people John Machado who is the chief technology officer

[00:21:05] I think at the time of his retirement and that is the news that he is retiring after 17 years

[00:21:11] at UKG John Machado will be stepping down unrelated to the earlier UKG news but a true

[00:21:18] retirement yet very nice things to say really showing the culture that's so strong especially

[00:21:25] you know he'd come from the years at ultimate as well so that's a sort of a bittersweet to

[00:21:32] see someone leave but also the fact that it's after a long time a successful career

[00:21:39] and I guess on maybe the other side of the coin Travis Burke is going to be joining

[00:21:44] the executive team at DeChebo as the EVP for corporate development and partnerships so

[00:21:52] really kind of exciting stuff from two industry leaders really DeChebo and more in the learning

[00:21:58] space right UKG as HRM but just interesting stuff going on in the world of people so

[00:22:06] congratulations to the both I think right yeah I think it's worth noting I mean John is I think

[00:22:13] enigmatic of what we're seeing across the market there are a lot of changes going on SAP success

[00:22:17] factors right as we noted Amy Wilson had just left there not too long ago as well I think we are

[00:22:23] seeing a bit of a shift there are people who they were taking early retirement or

[00:22:28] taking the next pivot Lexi Martin who was my mentor and colleague who used to do the survey

[00:22:33] for me and gone on to work for Vizier had recently left is taking a pivot in her career at

[00:22:38] as she sort of takes what's the next step in her world I think we're just going to hear more about

[00:22:43] that right like this is the conversation and I think we need to be aware of it we are losing a

[00:22:48] lot of history we're losing a lot of long term I think skill sets in the market people who

[00:22:54] understand sort of the reasons why so the decisions were made around the technology that

[00:22:59] exists and then I think on the other side you're seeing people making pivots you know Travis Burke

[00:23:04] is a really good example I had the chance to meet Travis boy I want to say it might have been

[00:23:13] I'm looking back to see you know where I would have met yeah I think it was UKG that's where I am

[00:23:18] but it would have been ultimate at that point in time he was their partner advisor he was their

[00:23:23] partner head of global partnerships and probably one of the first people I ever met who really

[00:23:28] walked me through the value of these partnerships that was early on in my analyst career and sort

[00:23:34] of really showed me sort of how companies could do a win-win versus sort of just who's selling

[00:23:40] what products to what prospects that we have all in each other's market so him joining Dottay boy

[00:23:46] I think is a really good indicator of what we're going to see in the market at Dottay

[00:23:50] boy is probably going to be a little bit more open about partnerships my sense would be that

[00:23:54] they're looking to break more into the US market with that so all these hires and people sort of

[00:24:00] retiring they lead to different you know outcomes that we're going to see in the market and I think

[00:24:05] that's kind of the more interesting conversation here was what does that sort of new person

[00:24:10] new persona inside of an organization lead to right absolutely yeah I do think a lot about and

[00:24:17] I think we've talked about it before when we talk about losing that history and just the fact

[00:24:21] that you know we talk about demographics because of the nature of the work we do and knowing that we are

[00:24:28] losing something special with sort of an end of a generation that isn't at work anymore

[00:24:35] it's certainly AI is no replacement for them and I wish there was some way though that it could

[00:24:41] be right that we could use these powerful technologies to harness the importance of

[00:24:48] experience you know and all the things that it brings and those insights and those connections

[00:24:54] those people connections which I guess I will use to transition into what I saw at work humans

[00:25:02] conference which is just called work human live that was in Austin and if you know work human

[00:25:08] listeners then you'll know that they are they were previously global force it's been quite a

[00:25:13] while though and they are they would say they're an employee experience organization you might know

[00:25:19] them from rewards and recognition although they definitely do more than that now and they're

[00:25:23] always a more interesting conference to me only in that they tend to talk a lot more about

[00:25:31] you know the importance of just friendship and togetherness and sort of broader topics

[00:25:37] that I find just as fascinating as the architecture of these AI systems and where those things

[00:25:44] interact I was specifically thinking of Eric Mosley their CEO who kicked off the conference

[00:25:50] and it's filled with a lot of celebrities and still he was bringing up stats like 20% of US

[00:25:57] 1.0 saying they have no friends at all you know talking about friendship and connectivity and

[00:26:03] how this plays into the world of work and what does it mean if AI can do more and more of our tasks

[00:26:09] and we have this free time does that just mean we're being more productive or does shouldn't

[00:26:14] mean and he literally called his speech the end of work so you can talk about some really broad

[00:26:18] topics you know that was pretty wild but I would be remiss if I didn't also talk about

[00:26:23] the fact that the project itself they've added an AI assistant they are really trying to

[00:26:30] be open and upfront about their use of AI as is fitting to their culture and where AI plays a

[00:26:38] role in helping you know prompt and helping write messages of recognition and feedback

[00:26:45] they have a performance management system as makes sense for the role that they're in

[00:26:51] and what does AI's role play in that how can it assist and just make people's lives

[00:26:55] better but also create those moments of connection and doing that network analysis

[00:27:01] that is the sort of technical side to a very human problem but it's always very invigorating

[00:27:09] and great to hear those sort of things and you know for a company that could be seen as

[00:27:14] touchy-feely they really do have a lot of impressive tech and a strong understanding of

[00:27:20] integrations and where they fit in and how they can use HR technology to improve lives and you know

[00:27:29] in a sort of broader way so that was really neat I had a really good time talking to you

[00:27:35] Stacy during that conference because happening at the same time you were at work day and they were

[00:27:41] although different conversations around AI and new technology in a way they're the same thing right

[00:27:47] just one is a little more I will let you go on because you definitely sent me a lot of screenshots

[00:27:53] and a lot of this discussion highly technical but at the same time ultimately making people's lives

[00:27:59] better yeah it's interesting because I used to attend many of the work human events back in

[00:28:06] the path back when it was back boy when it was called global force right yeah just back ways

[00:28:11] she was my age but you know work is always one of those events that we people like they

[00:28:16] wanted to go to I mean again vendor events at least for the analyst it's oftentimes for us

[00:28:22] viewed as work which is good during that's that's what you know we're there to learn to take the

[00:28:26] information bring it back to our audiences you're really spinning to you now give them the real

[00:28:30] gossip I know yeah it's your yeah yeah it's not all about concerts and good food let me tell

[00:28:36] you because you're you're on from 7 a.m to 7 at night trying to capture as much information

[00:28:41] as you can work human was oftentimes a little different right like where human was like

[00:28:45] oh we all want to go because we're hearing new things because they always brought some really

[00:28:49] interesting things to the forefront right it's interesting I think AI has changed a little

[00:28:54] bit of that conversation in the sense that you have to have it attend all these events right

[00:28:59] even some of these events that oftentimes we're talking more leadership or more recognition

[00:29:04] or more wellness right that actually makes me a little bit sad but but I know it's needed

[00:29:09] I know it's necessary right and the workday innovation summit is one where it is just for

[00:29:15] analysts right it didn't have any other sessions that meant went for customers it was all about

[00:29:20] getting the analysts into a room and sharing kind of the message about where workday is at with

[00:29:25] the goal of making sure that message got out and very similarly very much you know they kicked

[00:29:30] it off with Carlos Caban who's the CEO and I think is taking on his new role as CEO

[00:29:36] really seriously and it's been a nice transition between him and Neil but it was very clear that for

[00:29:42] him there were really a couple of big topics and one was AI the other one was partnerships

[00:29:47] and relationships and the other one was kind of the model and the infrastructure the platform

[00:29:52] enterprise platform conversation that we haven't heard as much maybe from from workday for a

[00:29:57] little while they use the term one data model which we got a lot of attention on our LinkedIn

[00:30:02] posts because if many of you remember back in the day workday was really pushing the fact that you

[00:30:08] know they were sort of an all-in-one solution that didn't have a lot of acquired applications

[00:30:14] brought in through integrations that's changed a little bit actually workday was very open about

[00:30:20] the fact that they probably will be acquiring more solutions and bringing them into full because

[00:30:24] and maybe even doing more partnerships with other organizations as well as a lot of investment

[00:30:31] in their platform as a service which is their extended platform model where they want people to

[00:30:35] sort of build on their platform platform is a much open more open concept and they were definitely

[00:30:40] having that conversation but I think they're also and they sent me a definition which I'll be

[00:30:45] putting today on my LinkedIn posts around this about what they consider the one model and

[00:30:49] they still feel like they've got the most I think unique and single data model particularly

[00:30:55] for finance and HR where some other things are feeding into it but it is for them a big

[00:31:00] part of why their artificial intelligence conversation is maybe different than what we see in some other

[00:31:06] entities. Workday has been probably one of the longest standing artificial intelligence

[00:31:12] conversations in the market their customers were twice as likely as any other vendor's

[00:31:17] customers that includes the SAPs, the Oracles and the Enforcers and those bigger enterprise

[00:31:22] applications to know that they were using artificial intelligence even before the big

[00:31:27] news came out about everybody using artificial intelligence because that was our survey last

[00:31:31] year so they've been having this conversation for quite some time and this innovation summit

[00:31:37] was really just showing us that that's paid off they have 200 plus places where artificial

[00:31:43] intelligence is now embedded across the enterprise application in ways that I think again they

[00:31:50] were already working on before the big release of chat GPT they definitely sort of

[00:31:55] reiterated their what I call distributed model of AI where basically they start with a model that

[00:32:03] they've developed design taught with data that was from the workday environment they are not

[00:32:10] using sort of open web data particularly in these in these and the teaching or in the training of

[00:32:16] their models so they're basically doing cleaner data sets smaller data sets with a focus on

[00:32:21] getting better answers out of their artificial intelligence and then they basically package those

[00:32:26] up and distribute them to the various tenants across their customers and then the customers

[00:32:31] basically then put them behind a wall and now that model gets altered and updated and taught in

[00:32:37] your environment that data does not go back except in a few areas like skills and that's

[00:32:42] again anonymous but it's sort of metadata that's being passed back and forth and generally

[00:32:47] that's how they're sort of running all their artificial intelligence and that's

[00:32:49] that's a really important distinction the other thing they really highlighted at this

[00:32:53] innovation summit which I think goes back to this conversation where you and I were talking

[00:32:58] about the difference between what we're seeing at work human versus what we were seeing at workday

[00:33:03] workday had two their chief responsibility officer as well as their VP of artificial

[00:33:10] intelligence strategy Kelly and Kathy I believe their names and I'll get their names we'll

[00:33:14] get their links and put them in the bios but what was really great is they did a whole session on

[00:33:20] how workday has a framework for what is sort of how they're going to decide what artificial

[00:33:28] intelligence they're willing to work on based off of high risk and high opportunity and outcomes

[00:33:32] for the HR population so some things like sort of monitoring employees high risk not a lot

[00:33:40] of benefit to organizations right other things like performance feedback low risk

[00:33:47] or medium risk but a really big opportunity for outcomes learning and development recommendations

[00:33:53] low risk and really great opportunities and those kind of frameworks that they had put in place

[00:33:59] allowed them to move faster with innovation because they didn't have to always re

[00:34:04] go over and over again over the governance conversation because they had made that sort

[00:34:08] of upfront decision about it and I think that was the some of the stuff that I think

[00:34:12] it's common sense it's just really good ethic ethical business modeling but it is it is something

[00:34:19] that I think every company has to go through the process for themselves and it's good to see a

[00:34:23] vendor sort of saying this is how we're doing it so we were seeing some real concrete

[00:34:27] places where they said we're going to draw the line this is not where we're going to

[00:34:30] spend our time on AI which I don't know that we heard that as much from organizations

[00:34:33] like working because they don't know if they all know where they're going to draw the

[00:34:35] line at I don't know from your perspective Glyph right no no that's exactly the case also you

[00:34:40] know just due to the reach and their ability right they have to kind of make those decisions but I

[00:34:45] like that distributed model too and like you know any any talk about governance will always get my

[00:34:51] ears perking up and I just love to see I think in a way we have been talking about that right

[00:34:55] because we've talked about data distribution earlier too the only one I would I would

[00:35:01] mention from this event that I think people should be really paying attention to for what

[00:35:05] Workday is doing and then I know we'll jump into sort of what's going on with the other

[00:35:08] events we know Workday hired hire or Workday acquired hired scored just recently with Athena

[00:35:13] or there was a lot of conversation about how their approach to skills matching and AI analysis

[00:35:21] of sort of again data inside of a closed environment could be used across the platform

[00:35:27] not just in recruiting but also in workforce planning as well as learning as well as

[00:35:32] that was very heavily sort of discussed I think that's going to be something you should

[00:35:36] organization should be watching I think the other thing that I was really watching is what

[00:35:41] they call their intelligent job architect to hub this is a tool that's going to design it's

[00:35:45] going to basically take job descriptions and help organizations redesign them based off of

[00:35:50] what they're seeing both internally and externally and that is a really big change yes we see

[00:35:56] all the time that the reason organizations till they can't implement AI or job skill

[00:36:00] match you know type of things is because their job profiles don't work they don't make sense

[00:36:06] they're not updated quick enough they don't have enough data so those are the two things I think

[00:36:09] are probably worth watching that came out of this event along with all the partnership updates and

[00:36:14] the really good solid data around AI that the organization talked about so sorry Cliff not to

[00:36:19] not to take up your time on other topics no no it's important and I and I think it's

[00:36:24] something we've been talking about the need for this sort of mass personalization that

[00:36:28] that's definitely a role that AI can fill you know of doing this sort of customization

[00:36:34] and hyper personalization at scale that includes job descriptions different communities and

[00:36:41] different people in different regions all and as you said you know with new skills there's so

[00:36:46] many different factors and it no one person can do it all and this is where you can really

[00:36:52] leverage the power of these models kind of seeing what works see what's local see what fits your culture

[00:36:59] and all those type of things that is such a good case which again doesn't have too much of a downside

[00:37:06] right there's not as much risk as when you're using AI for selection and price setting and

[00:37:11] things like that so I you know just really interesting stuff I do you know I know both

[00:37:18] you and I are just starting you at Oracle and me at workforce software but I'm excited to see

[00:37:24] where the kind of conversation goes at these events too right you know in this sort of thing

[00:37:30] obviously we'll be talking about strategic workforce planning here Oracle you're gonna be

[00:37:34] talking about all sorts of exciting stuff I know that a lot of the conversations since we did

[00:37:40] mention recruiting and you're talking about job descriptions this just came out today so

[00:37:46] Stacey mentioned the date of a recording the FTC the the American Federal Trade Commission

[00:37:52] announced the rule banning non-competes and this even so this if you're not familiar

[00:37:58] non-compete is pretty much what it sounds like in the title in that if you leave an organization

[00:38:04] you could be sort of not allowed to go to a northern organization with similar the main

[00:38:10] case I'd say that was pushing this forward was a Jimmy John's case there a sandwich chain

[00:38:16] and they're saying if you leave you can't go to another sandwich chain within three miles

[00:38:20] that's really tough if you're a worker that's like your only thing and you

[00:38:24] you know you just don't have that option it's just too limiting you know non-competes

[00:38:30] traditionally already had to be reasonable in terms of scope and distance you know there

[00:38:35] are all these rules around it FTCs just said you know what these are no good they suppress wages

[00:38:42] when they they made all these sort of estimations on how much this will help business growth now

[00:38:48] already the U.S. Chamber of Commerce which sort of is like a trade advocacy group for just

[00:38:56] business in general has said they're going to challenge it in court and get judges to block

[00:39:01] this ban finding it very harmful to what they're trying to put forward but it was a big enough news

[00:39:08] and although it's not directly HR tech it is such a big story especially for any of us that came

[00:39:15] through the recruiting world where you know you're regularly asking people so do you have

[00:39:19] an oncoming place because I need to know these things ahead of time and have that discussion

[00:39:23] so you know just really really a major major news for those of us in the U.S.

[00:39:31] Yeah this one is yeah I mean it's gonna it's probably gonna be challenged like you said right

[00:39:38] and it's gonna have an impact on tech definitely in the recruiting space right there might be

[00:39:43] we might start to see some things you know sort of show up in different ways people are being

[00:39:47] asked about non-competes or not down the road because the challenge about something

[00:39:53] like this where you get attention to it and it says no it's not sort of something that can be done

[00:39:58] well then someone's going to try and take it too far the other way eventually right so I mean I think

[00:40:05] the non-compete conversation is sort of the same way of the data privacy or not even data

[00:40:09] privacy but the data kind of as we're dealing with sort of the the tick talk and where the

[00:40:14] data sits challenge when you've got no borders to where data flows and you've got no borders

[00:40:20] as to where people can work that non-compete gets really really messy right it does yeah it'll be

[00:40:28] like you said it'll be interesting to see where it goes but as of now it's in effect although

[00:40:33] speak to your business attorney before making any decisions don't just take my word for it read

[00:40:37] it over because I know there's some exceptions I think although existing non-competes are banned

[00:40:43] they do stay in effect for executive level people that have an existing non-compete

[00:40:50] but you couldn't put one in later but again not an attorney not legal advice just

[00:40:55] very could be a landmark ruling and even if it is struck down the fact that it's being banned and

[00:41:02] these things are being challenged does show a change in you know as we were talking about

[00:41:07] earlier with the sort of these generational changes we've got a new world of work where

[00:41:12] as Stacy you just said it's getting pretty borderless and the probably the rules need to change

[00:41:20] reflecting how the world has changed yeah definitely we're like all things technology

[00:41:26] requires its own new technology requires its own set of thinking and its own set of regulations

[00:41:31] that's going to come eventually and how it happens is probably going to be very different

[00:41:35] from what we're thinking about today right well said yeah well Cliff we have been through a

[00:41:41] whirlwind of topics already before you know but we'll have more to come in the next couple of weeks

[00:41:46] I think just a reminder to everybody that not only have we been on the road and we've been opening

[00:41:52] up our first cohort education session and building an HR system strategy that works

[00:41:56] but we also have been launching the 27th annual HR system survey cannot understate that that

[00:42:05] because the great team that we have this has been one of the first years in ages where

[00:42:09] I've been involved but I haven't had to manage the day-to-day business around it so kudos to you Cliff

[00:42:15] and to Tammy who is managing that process and our whole team but May 1st I believe is the date when

[00:42:22] it's going to go live to the public but we might have a few people who are seeing early surveys

[00:42:25] right now coming out from early distributors right that's 100 right and we are very pleased

[00:42:34] with the changes have been made as mentioned before we really take the feedback seriously

[00:42:39] that could be as small as writing in the system you use if you don't see it on that list

[00:42:44] or it could be you know longer form feedback in general we take every single comment into

[00:42:52] account you could seem like it could get lost in thousands but we really do and we want to make

[00:42:56] sure it is perfectly reflective of the work you're seeing and the sort of feedback you want

[00:43:00] to give as a listener to this podcast if you for whatever reason are not receiving this survey

[00:43:07] through you know a tech provider of whomever feel free you can go to our website you can

[00:43:12] reach out to us and we'll be happy to provide this survey and you know you can get your voice

[00:43:18] of the customer heard yeah and this is the only way just a reminder for those who maybe

[00:43:22] haven't been paying attention as much that the full report is now behind a firewall with

[00:43:27] a fee for accessing the full report which is a newer thing for us at a safety insight

[00:43:32] screw but important for us to keep this business running because we're not sponsored we're one of

[00:43:36] the few organizations that don't have a sponsored research model but if you participate and take

[00:43:41] the survey then you get access to the full report we don't just give an executive summary

[00:43:46] give me the full report and as you're saying Cliff what you give back to the community comes

[00:43:50] back to you in this space so may first be sure to make sure you're on somebody's list

[00:43:55] to get the survey if not go to our website at www.sapientinsights.com and you will find a button

[00:44:01] there that will take you to a place to sign up to participate in the annual HR system survey

[00:44:06] 27th version and as we have done in the past big findings will be coming out in September and

[00:44:12] October one of the big release dates will be at the annual HR system and annual HR

[00:44:18] technology conference in Las Vegas held by HR executive magazine and then for everyone else

[00:44:24] we will have some virtual events as well where people can get some of the updated data also just

[00:44:29] a reminder that if you are not receiving regular updates on sort of our research and the work that

[00:44:35] we're doing because we have a lot of stuff that goes out besides just the big annual report

[00:44:39] you want to make sure that you sign up at our website for a newsletter to get ongoing updates

[00:44:43] on research launches where we'll be speaking or visiting and when you can participate in

[00:44:47] our annual survey as well as when it will be coming out to the public be sure to listen

[00:44:51] to our sister HR huddle podcast HR we have a problem hosted by our CEO Terry zipper these

[00:44:57] HR huddle episodes if you really like them if you find value in the data that we're sharing

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[00:45:05] and review wherever you grab your podcasts stay up to date with immediate breaking each

[00:45:10] or tech news and getting all the behind the scenes content you can follow us at sapient

[00:45:13] insights on linkedinx or instagram it's also a great place to connect with cliff and i

[00:45:18] and ask us some questions and cliff thank you for once again right now on the road it's always a

[00:45:22] little bit hard to get these things moving and getting them in the can in time so thanks for

[00:45:27] all your work and pulling everything together thanks to our production team including brand

[00:45:30] method media group who helps us produce our podcast run by their amazing founder kelly

[00:45:35] kelly our marketing team lisa renko and samarileno who make sure that you guys have

[00:45:39] access to this content thanks to you our listeners and community we couldn't do this

[00:45:44] without you cliff i think that's it for this episode of spilling the tea on hr tech we hope

[00:45:49] it's been just the brew that everyone needed to start the engines running this week and we'll be

[00:45:53] back in two weeks with another pot of boiling hot hr tech updates and insights thanks everyone