HR, We Have a Problem - In this episode, Teri and her guest, Christine Albert, talk about the complexity of defining the evolving role of a CXO in organizations today and the diverse business goals they are expected to achieve.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the HR Huddle podcast presented by Sapient Insights Group, the ultimate resource

[00:00:09] for all things HR. It's time to get in the huddle.

[00:00:21] Hello everyone and welcome back to the HR Huddle. I'm your host Terry Zipper, CEO and

[00:00:25] managing partner at Sapient Insights Group. And I'm back for another exciting episode

[00:00:31] of HR We Have a Problem. This is the show where we break down the big and most relevant HR issues

[00:00:37] of the day. We help you make sense of what they mean for you. And we talk about what you might do

[00:00:42] about them. Joining me today is Christine Albert. Christine is the founder of Adam Street Consulting.

[00:00:47] She's formerly the CXO, the Chief Experience Officer at LCMC Health in New Orleans. She's

[00:00:53] also on the board of the American Hospital Association. So she's got a lot going on.

[00:00:58] I first met Christine on a project that I worked on with her and her team. Welcome Christine,

[00:01:02] I'm super excited to have you on the show.

[00:01:05] Thanks Terry, happy to be here.

[00:01:06] How are things in New Orleans? I feel like it's been a while now since I've been down there, but I

[00:01:11] really enjoyed my time in the area.

[00:01:13] You know spring in New Orleans is the best time to be here. It's like a perfect 75 and sunny.

[00:01:18] And it's our festival season and there is a festival for any and everything. So it's just kind of

[00:01:23] one of those reminders of why we choose to live here. It's that connection to kind of creativity and

[00:01:27] culture and food.

[00:01:30] Yeah, I love it. I hadn't been there in years. And when I got back down there, I was like, now I know

[00:01:34] why I like this place.

[00:01:36] It's so fun. I just saw Rick Steve just voted or said that in his opinion, New Orleans is the most

[00:01:41] fun city in the United States. So it's not just you and I that think this.

[00:01:45] Oh wow, that's official.

[00:01:47] Yeah, it's official. Well, we're gearing up here for the Kentucky Derby. So Louisville

[00:01:51] tends to be an exciting place in May.

[00:01:55] That sounds incredible. Do you have your hat ready?

[00:01:57] I do. I do have my hat. I am super excited. I haven't been in years and this is the 150th

[00:02:03] running. So I cannot wait to go.

[00:02:07] So I know you happen to catch my recent podcast of where I interviewed the CMO of I

[00:02:12] Solved and we were talking about how to bring marketing and HR closer together.

[00:02:18] I think I even mentioned some things that we had done at LCMC that I thought would really

[00:02:23] resonate with people. I was actually excited to know somebody listens to the podcast. So

[00:02:27] thank you. But this kind of led to you reaching out and saying, hey, let's go deeper on

[00:02:32] this topic. And I was actually thrilled about that because we, you know, I did see

[00:02:37] a lot of this at my time there working with you guys. So anyway, I thought that's

[00:02:42] what we would do today is go a little deeper on this idea of the customer and

[00:02:46] employee experience and how to make that better. Does that sound like a good plan to

[00:02:51] you? Yes, this is one of my favorite topics. I'm excited. Awesome. Then let's get

[00:02:56] into the huddle. So over your tenure, you'd been in an executive level

[00:03:02] marketing and comms row for a while. How don't you end up with HR? I mean,

[00:03:07] this whole chief experience officer is very nascent role still at this point. A

[00:03:13] lot of organizations haven't really figured out how to fully define it. How did

[00:03:18] this come up at LCMC? Was it opportunistic? Was it something that you

[00:03:22] guys really thought a lot about and built into or, you know, tell me a little

[00:03:27] bit about that. I'm just very curious. That's a good point too. But the

[00:03:32] that CXO role being kind of a nascent role and also by discovery or my

[00:03:36] finding is that when I talk to peers and colleagues, kind of each organization,

[00:03:40] even though the title may be the same, the scope, the portfolio, kind of the

[00:03:43] purpose for that role, there can be some common threads. But oftentimes how it

[00:03:47] comes to life is really different or distinct to the organization. So in the

[00:03:51] case of LCMC health, it really was opportunistic. We are now a hospital

[00:03:56] system, a dual academic system based in New Orleans about 14,000 people. And I

[00:04:01] was lucky enough to join the system actually before being a system. So

[00:04:04] I've been there as a single individual hospital up into where it's grown to

[00:04:08] the present day, which has been incredible. But in many ways, it's almost

[00:04:11] like being an entrepreneur. So it's a large organization that just this

[00:04:14] constant change and growth and acceleration. And so as you mentioned,

[00:04:19] I started really in a more calm leadership role built up that

[00:04:23] function that didn't exist previously at a system level. And part of that

[00:04:26] was creating a brand or a cohesive brand strategy for our system, which

[00:04:31] previously had been a portfolio approach of a variety of hospitals with

[00:04:35] different mission vision values, verbal and visual identities. So New Orleans

[00:04:39] is a pretty small market. Our hospitals are located within eight

[00:04:42] miles of one another. And just from a kind of logo perspective, you know, at

[00:04:46] the most surface level of brand, I think we had about 580 different

[00:04:51] variations of visual identities in the market. So we really were

[00:04:54] lacking both the Christmas and the clarity that, you know, here's who

[00:04:57] we are, here's what we stand for. And here's what we do. And so that

[00:05:01] brand work took about three years. And then once we launched, it

[00:05:04] really delivered a lot of business results in terms of come the

[00:05:07] top of the funnel, people actually knew us. So awareness, leading to

[00:05:11] preference, which then converted to business to the bottom line.

[00:05:14] So after that successful kind of brand process, which was really

[00:05:19] emotional for a lot of the organization as well as intellectual

[00:05:22] just set the change management component, along with the creation

[00:05:26] of something new about loss of individual identity. The CEO of the

[00:05:30] system said, I really like that so much. Perseverance, persistence,

[00:05:33] great strategy delivered results. I'd love for that kind of effort to

[00:05:37] go into the people side of the business. So I want us to be known

[00:05:40] for our culture and our brand because those are two distinct

[00:05:44] things that we can kind of lean in and own and do differently or

[00:05:47] uniquely. And so it goes kind of like whatever you did there,

[00:05:50] can you kind of transfer that kind of thinking and approach to

[00:05:54] learning and development initially followed by recruitment, then

[00:05:58] HR operations and well being. So it just kind of evolved that way.

[00:06:01] Yeah.

[00:06:02] Over about three years, but just kind of the rate of change

[00:06:05] and the growth of the system really necessitated that and then

[00:06:08] kind of the tech stack sitting behind it helped to accelerate

[00:06:11] that. In our case, that was an ERP implementation with

[00:06:14] Workday, which is how we met.

[00:06:15] Yep, exactly. How did you so it kind of evolved, which is

[00:06:20] good because sometimes those things just as they happen over

[00:06:23] time, people learn more, understand it more. I'm

[00:06:27] curious though, because one of the things I read that I read a

[00:06:30] Deloitte article recently about what some of the challenges

[00:06:33] were for the CXO. And one of them was just that the role was

[00:06:38] not really well socialized within the organization. Did you

[00:06:43] ever feel like people just didn't understand what you were

[00:06:46] trying to accomplish with bringing these two things

[00:06:49] together? Just didn't understand the idea of the

[00:06:52] experience.

[00:06:53] Yes, I'd say defining it and creating understanding and then

[00:06:58] buy in and support and advocacy for the organization for the

[00:07:03] teams which I managed those five umbrella teams as well as for

[00:07:07] executive peers. So to me, the beauty was it wasn't defined,

[00:07:09] you get to write your playbook, the job description, the

[00:07:12] strategic plan, the vision for this function at the same time,

[00:07:15] it isn't just kind of a clear cut. You're an HR

[00:07:18] generalist, you do XYZ every single day, for example. So I

[00:07:22] think the first part of that was even the teams themselves

[00:07:24] bringing them together to say as a team, as a group, this

[00:07:28] experience team, what are we trying to do together? What do

[00:07:31] we stand for? How do we anchor to an employee experience in

[00:07:35] this case that is based on our brand and our mission vision

[00:07:38] values that also brings to life differentiation, who we are

[00:07:42] as an organization that's distinct and really create

[00:07:44] something compelling. So that that process in itself

[00:07:47] before you even kind of began to do the work to define it was

[00:07:50] a really important step.

[00:07:52] Yeah, did you actually reorganize the team? So you

[00:07:56] literally had marketing rolling up to you and HR rolling up

[00:08:01] to you in this role. And so it was all of a sudden you've

[00:08:06] got these sort of super creative people working with

[00:08:10] these very analytical individuals. How did you, I

[00:08:15] don't know, organize these two teams or think about and

[00:08:18] there's probably more than that. But I'm just thinking about

[00:08:20] those two major players in this, you know, talk a little bit

[00:08:24] about how you kind of operationalized that and brought

[00:08:27] these groups together.

[00:08:29] That's a great question that actually when I started to

[00:08:32] lead this group, I was asking the same question of myself. And

[00:08:34] I thought, let me go ask and talk to peers and colleagues

[00:08:37] that I know and then ask them if they knew anybody is

[00:08:39] doing something similar. So I kind of had this great

[00:08:42] colleague conversation going for probably five months off and

[00:08:45] on and I spoke to maybe 40 something people who are CHROs,

[00:08:49] CXOs or CMOs. And each conversation was as different as

[00:08:52] the person which is we haven't figured it out. We've done

[00:08:55] this but I'm not sure I'd love that we've tried this before.

[00:08:57] Here's my org chart. Let me know what you do and how it

[00:09:01] goes and gets back to me, you know, get back to me

[00:09:03] really excited or interested in what you're doing. So the

[00:09:05] lesson was there like nobody had a magic wand or

[00:09:09] structure or process. So that was both reassuring and also

[00:09:12] at the same time is like, okay, it's a blank slate. We kind of

[00:09:15] deconstructed actually the HR function a little bit and so

[00:09:17] became HR operations, recruitment, the learning and

[00:09:21] development piece and well-being. So rather than all of

[00:09:23] those things rolling up through HR, kind of put them side by

[00:09:26] side so that those leaders became colleagues working

[00:09:30] together and then we're anchored to this kind of

[00:09:32] employee life cycle vision. So you may be somebody

[00:09:35] operates in payroll, but that is what you do. But

[00:09:38] you're anchored to at this stage of the experience. I

[00:09:41] helped this person. Yeah, you know, be sure that they get

[00:09:44] paid and understand their compensation. So so that's

[00:09:47] a little bit how we how we brought those things

[00:09:49] together and it's interesting because both sides are

[00:09:51] they think differently about similar things. But I found

[00:09:56] the commonality there was how do you take the data

[00:09:58] that we have and distill them to something you

[00:09:59] can use to not get lost in the volume but just how

[00:10:02] do we start to elevate some headlines that can drive

[00:10:04] action? And HR folks are good at that. They have

[00:10:07] a lot of data and it turns out to our marketing

[00:10:09] people who are really oriented to qualitative

[00:10:11] and quantitative. So when you bring those things

[00:10:13] together, you know, those things have been kind of

[00:10:14] happening in parallel and this really created some

[00:10:17] collaboration so that there was lift for both.

[00:10:20] Marketing got more credit as a business function,

[00:10:23] not expense and HR we're trying to reposition

[00:10:26] that function not just to be super tactical but

[00:10:30] also be strategic. And so having a win and

[00:10:34] win there with that structure. Yeah, well,

[00:10:37] and it also because it's such a new area, I mean,

[00:10:40] it's probably been around for almost 10 years, but

[00:10:42] the reality is a lot of people aren't haven't

[00:10:45] really embraced it. So there's not a ton of

[00:10:48] people out there with specific experience around

[00:10:51] doing this. So did you have trouble recruiting or

[00:10:54] were you really just very focused on recruiting

[00:10:57] within the individual areas? Not really recruiting

[00:11:00] somebody specifically for employee experience?

[00:11:05] That's what we were more focused on the recruitment

[00:11:07] and just alignment of existing people around

[00:11:10] what is our vision and how do we execute this

[00:11:13] as a team and it might look a little bit

[00:11:14] differently. We might be doing more different

[00:11:15] things because our system has grown, it's

[00:11:18] evolved into a different kind of different

[00:11:20] tech stack. So the things of everyday life

[00:11:22] are changing but also how do we view the

[00:11:24] same work differently? So how do we put a

[00:11:26] different lens on things we've been doing to

[00:11:27] think with fresh perspective and found that

[00:11:31] for the some of the leadership roles that

[00:11:32] we did have naturally turnover during the

[00:11:34] last two years or so that was kind of a

[00:11:36] differentiator for several candidates who

[00:11:38] are like I like this holistic orientation to

[00:11:41] people and this is really what I'm looking

[00:11:43] to be a part of. I'm excited about how

[00:11:45] you're thinking about the building this

[00:11:46] and so that kind of structure or

[00:11:48] philosophy of the experience team also

[00:11:49] became a recruitment tool as well.

[00:11:52] Yeah, I know I saw some of this in

[00:11:55] action. So I know recruiting, recruitment

[00:11:57] marketing in particular was one of the

[00:11:59] things that was high on your list just

[00:12:01] in that environment and hiring people

[00:12:03] fast and furious. Obviously, that's at

[00:12:06] the top of the list of business

[00:12:07] challenges. Was that something that you

[00:12:10] focused on, had a vision for in terms

[00:12:13] of how you were going to approach that?

[00:12:15] Like how did you bring the marketing

[00:12:18] and the employee value proposition

[00:12:19] together on this recruitment marketing

[00:12:22] component? And I saw some of the

[00:12:23] numbers they were fantastic.

[00:12:25] Yeah, we had great results and

[00:12:27] thank you. That's a big question.

[00:12:29] We'll dive into some of that detail.

[00:12:31] Definitely had a vision but also

[00:12:32] recognized it probably was going to take

[00:12:34] two or three years to actually

[00:12:36] get there so in a world of like we

[00:12:38] want results yesterday.

[00:12:39] Yeah, how do we create and communicate

[00:12:41] effectively like here's what we've done,

[00:12:43] here's the impact you should come

[00:12:44] next and set this kind of

[00:12:45] cascading inconsistency compounding

[00:12:49] really led us to better results on

[00:12:50] the recruitment side. Like many other

[00:12:52] healthcare systems just agency nurses

[00:12:55] specifically was a real pain point

[00:12:56] for us. We had a tremendous amount

[00:12:57] of vacancies, a thousand plus full

[00:12:59] time part time at any one time.

[00:13:01] We had 20 plus percent turnover

[00:13:04] and we had a lot of agency

[00:13:05] expense triple digits millions of

[00:13:07] dollars. So it was it was a real

[00:13:08] business priority. It was also a

[00:13:10] cultural priority. It was also a

[00:13:11] quality priority. It drove all of

[00:13:13] those things. So we redesigned

[00:13:15] the recruitment team and

[00:13:17] because we are a little bit of

[00:13:18] an entrepreneurial organization,

[00:13:19] we did not have a value proposition.

[00:13:21] We had this great brand work

[00:13:23] in the community but then we

[00:13:25] had not yet developed,

[00:13:27] implemented and operationalized

[00:13:29] as an employee or provider.

[00:13:31] Why should I work here?

[00:13:33] Why should I stay here?

[00:13:35] And kind of that rest of Prostee

[00:13:37] of what's in it for me and what's

[00:13:38] in it for you. And so we really

[00:13:39] took advantage of that time to

[00:13:40] do the employee value proposition

[00:13:42] work and to have our teams really

[00:13:44] lead that and to help translate

[00:13:45] to business leaders like this is

[00:13:47] what we're saying has to match

[00:13:48] what we're doing. Here are

[00:13:49] examples when we started with

[00:13:51] the recruitment journey of here's

[00:13:52] how it starts to come to life.

[00:13:53] We are going to start

[00:13:55] having a compelling recruitment

[00:13:56] journey. We're going to be using

[00:13:57] that marketing team where it had

[00:13:59] an insights team that was a CRM

[00:14:01] email marketing and marketing

[00:14:02] automation experts.

[00:14:04] They then started on the HR

[00:14:05] tech stack since they already

[00:14:06] have the capabilities and

[00:14:08] orientation and mindset.

[00:14:10] And so we started to kind of

[00:14:11] baby step into redesigning

[00:14:13] the web platform using Workday

[00:14:16] and in our case, Phenom as

[00:14:17] that tool using email marketing

[00:14:19] using AI chat bots come just

[00:14:21] starting all of those things

[00:14:22] going. We started to turn those

[00:14:24] things on and just

[00:14:26] organically just saw the candidates

[00:14:27] increase in addition to what our

[00:14:29] recruiters, the human individuals

[00:14:30] were doing in terms of talking

[00:14:31] about reach.

[00:14:32] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:34] Having participated in the

[00:14:36] acquisition journey of

[00:14:38] the Tulane hospitals, I saw

[00:14:41] firsthand there were other major

[00:14:42] initiatives that you guys were

[00:14:44] working on. And I thought that

[00:14:46] was and that was a lot

[00:14:48] of your brainchild, right?

[00:14:49] Like how do we make this a

[00:14:50] journey for these people that

[00:14:51] are going to come into the

[00:14:52] organization? There's a large

[00:14:54] group of them.

[00:14:55] It's not just a, you know, on

[00:14:57] boarding exercise for 20 people

[00:14:59] next week. It's an on boarding

[00:15:00] exercise for 2,500

[00:15:02] people, you know, just that

[00:15:04] whole process.

[00:15:05] And I saw the way that worked

[00:15:07] around this idea of the journey

[00:15:09] and very baked into

[00:15:12] the value proposition.

[00:15:13] And really, it was

[00:15:15] a huge marketing initiative.

[00:15:17] I mean, I thought it was very

[00:15:18] powerful and there was a lot of

[00:15:20] great feedback on that in

[00:15:21] terms of how people felt about

[00:15:23] that process.

[00:15:25] No, I appreciate you saying that

[00:15:26] certainly there was a lot of sweat

[00:15:27] equity that when it's

[00:15:29] planning, you know what?

[00:15:30] When people showed up, when they

[00:15:32] had that lived experience as a

[00:15:33] new employee joining our system,

[00:15:35] kind of the architect sitting

[00:15:36] behind it had taken all of this

[00:15:37] and our data research and our

[00:15:38] EDP to create these touch

[00:15:40] points that were some

[00:15:41] automated, some in person, but

[00:15:43] just continuous, consistent

[00:15:45] and in that brand voice

[00:15:46] and that brand look so that

[00:15:48] every step of the way people

[00:15:49] understood or aware

[00:15:51] had clear communication, but it

[00:15:52] was done and developed and

[00:15:53] delivered in such a way that

[00:15:55] it felt celebratory, inclusive

[00:15:58] and helped to give those

[00:16:00] new to our system employees

[00:16:02] an understanding of what their

[00:16:04] lived experience of our

[00:16:05] organization is and should look

[00:16:06] like and what that culture is.

[00:16:08] So I think those are nice kind

[00:16:09] of on-ramp touch points,

[00:16:10] especially in acquisitions of that

[00:16:12] ultimately your brand and your

[00:16:13] employee value proposition like

[00:16:15] when employees show up to work

[00:16:16] every single day, they should be

[00:16:17] able to live it and feel it

[00:16:18] in their everyday life.

[00:16:19] And this is how we started to do

[00:16:20] that.

[00:16:21] Yeah, have you been able to

[00:16:22] translate that to just the

[00:16:25] regular onboarding process?

[00:16:28] We are in the process of doing

[00:16:29] that. So that was kind of right.

[00:16:30] This is our pilot, which is great.

[00:16:32] So we kind of got to test and learn

[00:16:33] with those 2000 plus employees

[00:16:35] and get some feedback and like,

[00:16:36] OK, this worked.

[00:16:37] We'd refine this.

[00:16:38] We're going to think about this

[00:16:38] differently.

[00:16:39] And now that's the work that's

[00:16:41] happening this year, which is

[00:16:42] looking at the entire system

[00:16:44] now that we have kind of that

[00:16:45] beta, which was wonderful.

[00:16:46] Yeah.

[00:16:47] And how do we bring that to life

[00:16:48] or in person?

[00:16:49] What needs to be in person?

[00:16:50] And then how do we use things like

[00:16:51] our workday technology to

[00:16:53] automatically deploy and deliver

[00:16:55] some onboarding or some training

[00:16:57] things we need to do in person?

[00:16:58] You have to do it.

[00:16:59] You don't necessarily have to have

[00:17:00] it done day one.

[00:17:02] What do we need to do and when?

[00:17:03] So that how do we you know, how

[00:17:04] do we create that experience as

[00:17:05] you join the organization?

[00:17:06] So we're re recruiting you from

[00:17:08] the start and you aren't say

[00:17:10] just showing up and sitting through

[00:17:11] the 10 hours of the

[00:17:12] recitation of PowerPoint policies,

[00:17:14] which is not a moment of

[00:17:15] connection or community

[00:17:16] or culture.

[00:17:17] Yeah.

[00:17:18] Yeah.

[00:17:19] Speaking of culture, I thought that

[00:17:21] was the other thing that I

[00:17:23] really loved the way you guys

[00:17:24] organized around the brand

[00:17:26] culture with your culture

[00:17:27] leaders or the crew, as you

[00:17:29] call them.

[00:17:30] I just that was a very

[00:17:32] powerful connection point

[00:17:34] for people getting

[00:17:36] communication.

[00:17:37] But also, you know, these are

[00:17:39] people out in the field, right?

[00:17:40] They're not people sitting in the

[00:17:42] offices and the staff.

[00:17:43] They were people in the field who

[00:17:45] could welcome people

[00:17:47] at the local level.

[00:17:49] I thought that was really powerful.

[00:17:51] Well, thank you.

[00:17:52] Yeah, that activation has really

[00:17:54] served as well and I'll be honest

[00:17:55] that came from our brand launch

[00:17:57] gosh five years ago, which is we

[00:17:59] had this KREW, the crew

[00:18:01] in New Orleans, that's kind of a

[00:18:02] parading cruise.

[00:18:03] We just took that vernacular

[00:18:04] and applied it for, you know,

[00:18:05] a city that likes to have fun

[00:18:06] and celebrate.

[00:18:07] So these are like things to

[00:18:08] celebrate.

[00:18:09] And so we engaged people in that

[00:18:11] brand process and we found people

[00:18:12] excited.

[00:18:13] They wanted to be part of

[00:18:14] something.

[00:18:15] And it wasn't just people with

[00:18:16] different heads of titles.

[00:18:17] It was more like who is a leader

[00:18:18] who really is excited and engaged

[00:18:20] in treating this as something

[00:18:21] that was a little something extra

[00:18:23] that was kind of like a point of

[00:18:24] pride to be able to participate

[00:18:26] in and you don't have to do it

[00:18:27] forever. So in that case, a lot

[00:18:29] of folks did for brand launch.

[00:18:30] It was amazing.

[00:18:31] And then we did kind of a two

[00:18:32] point where people are kind of

[00:18:33] helping us sustain and then

[00:18:35] acquisition, engaging different

[00:18:36] people. So it also helps us

[00:18:38] keep things fresh and keep it

[00:18:39] meaningful and alive for a lot

[00:18:40] of the organization.

[00:18:41] Yeah, yeah, that came in really

[00:18:43] handy in the change management

[00:18:44] work too, because you've already

[00:18:45] had people out in the field that

[00:18:47] kind of were the people who

[00:18:49] were talking about

[00:18:51] things at the water cooler.

[00:18:52] Right?

[00:18:53] Exactly. Yeah, they can amplify

[00:18:54] that message. They can come back

[00:18:56] and be like, you know, you put

[00:18:57] this up and hear the three

[00:18:58] questions I keep hearing it

[00:18:59] again and again. So they have

[00:19:00] different eyeballs and ears

[00:19:01] at that really grassroots level

[00:19:02] that even just from a

[00:19:04] you know, a calm system wide

[00:19:06] perspective, you're not walking

[00:19:07] the halls every day. So that

[00:19:07] was a great that's a great way

[00:19:09] for us to here in sea times

[00:19:10] a couple hundred.

[00:19:12] Yeah, were there some other

[00:19:14] big initiatives that you were

[00:19:16] working on behind the scenes or

[00:19:17] that I didn't see these were

[00:19:19] things that, you know, I was

[00:19:20] witnessing. So I was excited

[00:19:22] about those. But I'm sure there

[00:19:23] were some other things going on

[00:19:24] that you guys were doing that

[00:19:26] we haven't talked about.

[00:19:29] That is a great question.

[00:19:30] I think there's always a lot

[00:19:31] happening behind the scenes

[00:19:32] that then it comes out and

[00:19:33] people like, oh, that's

[00:19:33] fantastic. We've been working

[00:19:34] on that for nine months.

[00:19:35] Yeah, here it is.

[00:19:37] We're launching into the world.

[00:19:39] It's really easy when it

[00:19:40] comes out right on paper,

[00:19:41] but it's like, that took a lot of

[00:19:43] blood, sweat and tears.

[00:19:45] Yes, and a lot of kind of

[00:19:46] collaboration. So I say one

[00:19:47] thing that's bearing a lot of

[00:19:48] fruit that took us kind of

[00:19:50] consistently about 12 months

[00:19:52] to really have that on ramp

[00:19:54] and have it work well is

[00:19:56] what you're talking about kind

[00:19:57] of the HR connection of in our

[00:19:58] case, recruitment to fill our

[00:19:59] highest need. So how do we

[00:20:01] recruit nurses or allied

[00:20:02] health professionals? And that

[00:20:03] is about recruitment, but

[00:20:04] it's also about hiring

[00:20:06] managers and others who are

[00:20:07] receiving those candidates

[00:20:08] looking holistically at this

[00:20:10] process and just being

[00:20:11] curious because a lot of times

[00:20:13] if this is your job and you've

[00:20:14] done it for years, some of

[00:20:15] the things become like wallpaper

[00:20:17] to you. And so we kind of

[00:20:18] get that fresh lens to say,

[00:20:19] okay, if I'm an applicant, what

[00:20:21] does this actually look like

[00:20:22] and feel like? And is it great?

[00:20:24] Is it good? Is it hmm?

[00:20:26] And so just having that

[00:20:27] curiosity, you know, a lot

[00:20:29] of our recruiters are

[00:20:30] others like, well, I don't

[00:20:30] know, I've never actually

[00:20:31] applied. It's like, let's

[00:20:32] do it. And so out of that

[00:20:34] kind of just like map all

[00:20:35] these things came in a

[00:20:36] realization that the

[00:20:36] recruitment process was not

[00:20:37] awesome for our candidates.

[00:20:39] It really took a long time.

[00:20:40] It was hard. So the teams

[00:20:42] on the recruitment side, HR

[00:20:43] side, hiring managers, I kind

[00:20:45] of redesigned all those

[00:20:47] processes. We kind of have

[00:20:48] some standard operating

[00:20:49] procedures on that side and

[00:20:51] some SLAs. And so those two

[00:20:53] things together are what we

[00:20:54] initially had to do before

[00:20:55] we even had to talk about

[00:20:56] recruitment marketing. So it's

[00:20:57] like, we need to be sure that

[00:20:58] when you apply it, it does

[00:20:59] not take three weeks for

[00:21:00] someone to get back to you.

[00:21:01] If you're a nurse, it should

[00:21:02] be like that day. It should

[00:21:03] be instantaneous. This is

[00:21:05] really our priority.

[00:21:06] So we got that done. But

[00:21:07] really it's that recruitment

[00:21:08] marketing is kind of that

[00:21:08] always on invisible marketing.

[00:21:11] So for us, two things that

[00:21:12] really yielded a lot even in

[00:21:14] the first four months for our

[00:21:16] chatbot on our website, which

[00:21:18] does take a little bit of human

[00:21:19] finessing once you start to see

[00:21:21] those questions and themes.

[00:21:22] And then people just signing

[00:21:24] up for our community and then

[00:21:25] receiving email messaging from

[00:21:26] the organization again, we

[00:21:28] framed really creatively in that

[00:21:29] brand voice and value

[00:21:30] proposition. So it kind of

[00:21:31] broke through your email

[00:21:32] clutter. So there was always

[00:21:34] somebody, the virtual, you

[00:21:35] know, LCMC health recruiter

[00:21:36] was always sending you jobs

[00:21:38] roles, updates. And so we

[00:21:40] started to see that funnel

[00:21:41] turn on and strong engagement

[00:21:42] and so on the HR marketing

[00:21:45] recruitment side, we could say,

[00:21:46] you know, in our pilot in the

[00:21:47] first four months, just for

[00:21:49] roles that had vacancy

[00:21:50] positions, we saw

[00:21:52] applications and hires come

[00:21:54] out of that that were the

[00:21:55] equivalent of say $250,000.

[00:21:57] And that was that totally

[00:21:59] said it forget it, but kind

[00:22:00] of automated and just tweak

[00:22:01] it. And so that's the work

[00:22:03] we started to pilot and scale

[00:22:04] that started to yield

[00:22:06] significant business results.

[00:22:07] Yeah. Yeah, I think that

[00:22:09] took a while to get all of

[00:22:10] those things working together.

[00:22:12] Yeah. And it's a perfect

[00:22:14] example of, you know, what was

[00:22:15] the required business need

[00:22:18] so that you were focused on

[00:22:19] a business outcome, right?

[00:22:21] Getting people in the door,

[00:22:23] but also that balance between

[00:22:26] the business outcomes and the

[00:22:28] employee impact. And you

[00:22:31] really saw a lot of impact.

[00:22:32] I mean, that's where you

[00:22:33] start to see these decisions

[00:22:35] and these things start to

[00:22:37] make a difference when you start

[00:22:38] to see the impact at the employee

[00:22:39] level. I think that's just

[00:22:41] that's critical.

[00:22:43] Totally agree. And it's exciting

[00:22:44] to see because it's making a

[00:22:45] difference to the organization,

[00:22:46] to the individuals who are being

[00:22:47] hired, you know, to everyone

[00:22:49] is just an accelerant of

[00:22:51] the mission and also people's

[00:22:52] careers. Yeah. Well, and then

[00:22:53] they become ambassadors for

[00:22:55] the organization, right? And

[00:22:57] talk about their onboarding

[00:22:59] process and coming to work

[00:23:00] there. And it just it

[00:23:02] changes the whole dynamic and the

[00:23:04] way people think about their

[00:23:05] work. Totally agree. And it's

[00:23:07] one of those things too, you

[00:23:08] can't, you know, we keep kind

[00:23:09] of checking back in. And so

[00:23:10] sometimes it surveys that

[00:23:12] folks who have recently been

[00:23:13] hired is touching these of those

[00:23:14] hiring managers and we're

[00:23:15] starting to formalize a lot of

[00:23:16] those qualitative and quantitative

[00:23:17] data touch points to

[00:23:18] understand how are we doing

[00:23:21] and what are the strong or

[00:23:22] weak areas in this onboarding

[00:23:24] journey or whatever we really

[00:23:25] need to focus on so that

[00:23:26] people feel ready for day one

[00:23:27] equipped and ready to just

[00:23:29] join the organization. I feel

[00:23:30] excited about it.

[00:23:32] Yeah. What were some of the

[00:23:34] learnings that you had,

[00:23:36] especially as somebody new to the

[00:23:37] HR function, right? That really

[00:23:40] wasn't your background. It was

[00:23:41] marketing. Did that have I'd be

[00:23:44] curious to know what if you had

[00:23:46] any learnings and then did it

[00:23:47] have an impact on your approach

[00:23:49] to marketing going forward?

[00:23:51] That's a good question. I

[00:23:52] think I learned so much. And

[00:23:55] I'm kind of curious that I

[00:23:56] always I feel like I'm a

[00:23:56] good student. I always happen.

[00:23:58] And so I didn't know what I

[00:23:59] didn't know on the HR side

[00:24:01] of things. And so I really

[00:24:02] asked a lot of questions and

[00:24:02] learned from so many people and

[00:24:05] the hundreds of people on that

[00:24:07] team. I'm aware of a lot of

[00:24:08] respect for the complexity of

[00:24:10] those roles and that function

[00:24:11] and of course, the just how

[00:24:13] essential it is. And so I was

[00:24:15] always impressed with that.

[00:24:17] And I think for me, the thing

[00:24:18] that I also took away that I

[00:24:20] borrowed a little bit from

[00:24:20] marketing brought to HR and

[00:24:21] vice versa in this case was

[00:24:23] how do we elevate these

[00:24:24] things to be have that seat

[00:24:26] at the table and to be a

[00:24:27] strategic mindset because

[00:24:28] people and FTEs are not

[00:24:29] things you move around and

[00:24:30] excel spreadsheets to try

[00:24:31] minimize the cost. So how do

[00:24:32] you start to think about

[00:24:33] people as your greatest asset

[00:24:35] as your investment? You will

[00:24:37] see the human balance sheet

[00:24:39] side of things. You'll also see

[00:24:40] that reflected in the

[00:24:41] financials. So unless you

[00:24:42] change some of this

[00:24:44] holistically or unless we

[00:24:45] respond to one employees and

[00:24:46] prospective employees are

[00:24:47] seeking, we're not going to

[00:24:49] be successful. So a lot of

[00:24:50] what we did was kind of

[00:24:51] borrowing that marketing

[00:24:51] mindset of let's seek to

[00:24:54] understand. And so we did a

[00:24:55] lot of nurse workforce

[00:24:56] research. We did a lot of

[00:24:58] research with applicants on

[00:24:59] the journey. We did a lot of

[00:25:01] cultural typography research

[00:25:02] with our entire workforce to

[00:25:03] say what do you care about?

[00:25:04] Where are we doing? What are

[00:25:05] we doing well and what are the

[00:25:07] gaps? And how do we start to

[00:25:09] elevate an idea around that?

[00:25:10] And some of the themes

[00:25:11] there consistently were, I

[00:25:13] want you to invest in me as

[00:25:15] a professional person. I want

[00:25:17] to have access to internal

[00:25:18] mobility and growth and

[00:25:20] roles. And those were two

[00:25:22] things that in our world we

[00:25:24] could do something about and

[00:25:25] then it was a matter of

[00:25:26] sharing that communicating

[00:25:27] it and making that

[00:25:28] investment be truly an

[00:25:29] investment not be pursued

[00:25:30] by other companies. And I

[00:25:32] think it's a great idea to

[00:25:34] look at the importance of

[00:25:36] investing in the community

[00:25:37] and how do we spread that

[00:25:38] to the people that are

[00:25:39] working in the community

[00:25:40] and what is the impact

[00:25:42] on your own health?

[00:25:42] And so you start to feel

[00:25:43] very much the same way

[00:25:44] that you do for me as a

[00:25:45] professional person. And I

[00:25:46] also want to have the

[00:25:48] opportunity to go through

[00:25:49] the conversations with

[00:25:50] everyone that have been

[00:25:51] working on this project

[00:25:52] and share their stories

[00:25:53] about the impact of

[00:25:54] employers and the

[00:25:56] work and how do you

[00:25:57] start to think about the

[00:25:58] and impactful for your executives in the organization or your partners?

[00:26:04] I think there was like the executive kind of focal point and then more of the team detail

[00:26:10] and the team detail one led to the outcome that people were looking for.

[00:26:13] So the outcome always was how many people did we hire, how much money are we saving by not having agency for nurses,

[00:26:17] which has been our big priority.

[00:26:19] And so we had a, I'd say like a functioning but not really robust recruitment function.

[00:26:26] And so we added sourcing, we had a coordination previously recruiters that kind of done it all.

[00:26:30] And that really wasn't working.

[00:26:32] So building the case of we have to create this function to make it work.

[00:26:35] And if you spend this, you're going to get this.

[00:26:37] We invested a little bit over a million dollars in the course of a year.

[00:26:40] And then the impact to hiring was 130% increase in nurse hiring for those roles that had agency associated with them and about,

[00:26:47] we have arranged like 13 to 16 million impact net on that.

[00:26:51] And part of the variation is we were implementing workday during that year and had multiple financial accounting systems.

[00:26:56] And so clarity at the beginning of the year that didn't give us that like perfect precision we're looking for,

[00:27:00] but that was something our finance folks could be comfortable with.

[00:27:02] So with that kind of investment, we saw that kind of return and the best hiring we'd ever have.

[00:27:07] And so building the case and just continue to say, when we did this, we got this, we do this, we can do this.

[00:27:13] So that was a big both learning and a different way to demonstrate kind of how this people function can really deliver business results.

[00:27:20] Yeah.

[00:27:21] Yeah.

[00:27:22] No, I mean it's a great story and getting to witness some of that firsthand was, you know, really highlights what the value is right.

[00:27:31] And I think that's probably imperative to some of these leadership teams is get in on the ground floor like see what's going on,

[00:27:39] see what's happening be part of the solution on this if you want to understand the impact that it's having on people in the organization.

[00:27:49] Yeah, and it's hard to you know that I have so much more respect now on the HR and talent side now that I learned it so well as it always comes back to hey we're not hiring well or HR you're not doing this fast enough but like

[00:27:59] I think it's also the interview process. I mean like there are so many pieces here but it kind of is like, you know this function kind of gets left holding responsibility and accountability for what is really a collaborative function so our

[00:28:11] the hill to Diane for this whole team is like recruitment is really a team sport, and it's cross functional and collaborative like we're all engaged in kind of changing that like from the same team.

[00:28:23] So it really is and I think having support at the executive level is probably critical for making this happen right because that's where the investment comes from that's where people understand the cultural shift, and can start to take on some of those those

[00:28:41] attributes.

[00:28:43] Yeah, making people believers and also that you know the thing of if you want to keep trying to do the same thing expecting a different outcome so we're going to try some different things.

[00:28:51] Yeah, and we're going to because we need different outcomes.

[00:28:55] Yeah.

[00:28:56] Well, this has been a great discussion. Is there anything you would leave the audience with today as they're thinking potentially about how they start to think about the either the role of chief experience officer or really just working more closely between

[00:29:12] marketing and HR is there any guidance you would give them or something that you might leave them with today that would be something to think about ponder, get started on might help them.

[00:29:24] No, that's a great question and love that. And because there's so much variation I would just say that you're always stronger together.

[00:29:30] And so the organization of the function like all of there might be a lot of variation all of those things.

[00:29:35] But there is only something to gain if you have this partnership between marketing and HR we can really unify who you are as an organization what you stand for and how you bring it to life.

[00:29:45] And that lived experience in the most meaningful way with your employees those two things working together are what make your organization different distinct in the place people want to be people want to stay and people work.

[00:29:55] Now, now I think that's key. Well Christine thank you so much for joining me today this has been great. I also want to thank our producers the brand method media group and our marketing team who will get this podcast out to you

[00:30:09] and thank you the audience for tuning in. That's all the time we have for this week's episode of HR we have a problem. If you enjoyed the episode you can subscribe to it on your favorite podcast app.

[00:30:21] Leave us a review if you have a minute we'd love to know what you're thinking or if you have some topics that you'd like us to cover, and you can also drop us a line or schedule a chat on the website.

[00:30:31] We will be back in two weeks with another episode of HR we have a problem. Thanks everybody.