HR, We Have a Problem - HR as the “bad guy” in the workplace and adopting improv’s ‘yes, and’ approach as a fresh way to deal with challenges.

[00:00:00] It's an interesting thing because it's this technology that is kind of being thrust upon us as well as people adopting it.

[00:00:13] It drives me insane.

[00:00:17] I'm linked in, they're like, rewrite with AI and every applicant tracking system out there is like,

[00:00:25] now we're AI powered.

[00:00:28] Like, we didn't ask for this.

[00:00:30] I don't know what we wanted.

[00:00:31] I mean, heaven knows I don't want linkedin to be powered by AI.

[00:00:36] I don't.

[00:00:37] I don't want to know what chatGPT thinks about something.

[00:00:41] I would like to know what Terry's ever thinks about something.

[00:00:44] You know, it's like, I don't want that there and I don't think that I'm alone on that.

[00:00:52] Welcome to the HR Huddle podcast presented by Sapient Insights Group,

[00:00:58] the ultimate resource for all things HR.

[00:01:02] It's time to get in the Huddle.

[00:01:11] Hello everyone, welcome back to the HR Huddle.

[00:01:14] I'm your host, Terry Zipper, CEO and managing partner at Sapient Insights Group.

[00:01:19] And I'm back for another exciting episode of HR.

[00:01:22] We have a problem.

[00:01:24] This is the show where we like to break down the big and most relevant HR issues at the day.

[00:01:29] We help you make sense of what they mean for you.

[00:01:32] And we also talk about what you might do about them.

[00:01:35] Our guest today is some, someone many of you know as the evil HR lady.

[00:01:40] Her Facebook page has, I don't know, 30,000 or so members.

[00:01:45] The face behind that name is Suzanne Lucas and I'm excited to have her on the show today.

[00:01:50] Welcome Suzanne.

[00:01:52] Thank you so much Terry. I'm super happy to be here.

[00:01:55] I know you had a lot of corporate HR experience and then decided to come at HR problems from a different

[00:02:02] perspective and sort of doing things like coaching and training HR departments.

[00:02:06] So that's some of the things I want to talk about today.

[00:02:10] The title of the show, as you know, is HR we have a problem.

[00:02:13] I feel like if there's anyone that can speak about that, it's you.

[00:02:19] So I thought we'd cover the gamut today like who is this evil HR lady? How did she come to be that?

[00:02:26] And maybe more specifically what's the state of HR today and where might we be going?

[00:02:33] Does that sound right?

[00:02:34] Plan sounds very broad. So let's do it.

[00:02:37] Let's get into the huddle. So what I guess one of my first questions for you, I've heard

[00:02:43] you talk a lot about how you kind of got started but I'm really interested in what was the

[00:02:49] impetus or what was the thing that made you want to get out of corporate HR and get into the consulting

[00:02:54] world? I mean I think some could argue that that's a lot harder like coaching and training HR

[00:03:00] departments is a lot harder. What was it that sort of drove you there?

[00:03:06] Well the answer won't be terribly exciting. I didn't. I fell into this world.

[00:03:14] I was I was working in corporate HR when my husband got a job offer and switched to lunch.

[00:03:22] And so who's going to turn that down, right?

[00:03:25] Right. So we came here for two to three years, 15 years ago. And when we came I quit my corporate

[00:03:35] job and because we were going to only stay here for two to three years we decided that I would

[00:03:40] stay on what the kids it was a new country, new language, new culture, blah blah blah. The kids were

[00:03:46] little, daycare is crazy expensive. So you know for two to three years I was going to be the

[00:03:53] stay at home mom and then like I said that was 15 years ago. And so I left the corporate world

[00:04:01] for a Swiss adventure. And then while I was here, I just started I was writing a blog. I've been

[00:04:09] writing a blog for three years. And then CBS News reached out to me and said hey would you like

[00:04:16] to write for us? We'll pay you and I was like what? Some of the things for us?

[00:04:23] And so I started writing for them and I never looked back.

[00:04:29] That's awesome. You know it's funny that's usually how a lot of people end up in things.

[00:04:34] I mean they're not necessarily trained in it, they just decide to do it or you know the skills look

[00:04:42] like they match your skills right? Say you say hey I'm going to give this a whirl.

[00:04:47] And now I personally didn't end up in HR in the space that I'm in now on purpose either.

[00:04:54] It kind of just sort of fell into it because I had some technology experience and then

[00:04:59] this HR department that was trying to launch or you know implement a new payroll system was like oh

[00:05:06] well you know something about technology come come help us. So yeah yeah it's interesting how that works.

[00:05:14] So much I tell people you know that your effort and all of that absolutely affects your

[00:05:23] career but don't dismiss random life events. You know there's a lot of luck involved

[00:05:31] in career and there's a lot of talking with everybody you know and these chances for different things

[00:05:38] pop up in weird and weird ways. So do you have to be ready to seize opportunity when it appears?

[00:05:46] Yeah that's very good advice. So when you were in HR in your formative career what did you see

[00:05:55] as some of the challenges then are they still the same challenges today or are you seeing a lot

[00:06:01] of new challenges? I mean there's I've been an HR for 25 years now oh boy.

[00:06:10] It's scary when you start measuring it in number of years. I think that was like since 1999

[00:06:14] and it's 2024 that's 25 years yeah I've been an HR for 25 years and so there's been you know a lot

[00:06:23] different things have happened you know my very first salary exempt salary exempt role in HR

[00:06:31] was as an HR analyst and I was the very first HR analyst for a company called Wegmans your

[00:06:43] East Coast viewers will know it's the best grocery store on the planet. Yep they are the best

[00:06:48] ever. Anyway I still love them but I was there very very first HR analyst like

[00:06:58] HR I asked is were new that was a new thing my very very first HR job was as a

[00:07:06] temp I was a temp administrative assistant in an HR department where they were implementing

[00:07:11] their very first HRIS and they were keeping all of their employee information on cards that

[00:07:19] they starting shoe boxes. I mean this is this whole thing is within the last 25 years so you know when

[00:07:26] you start out with that and then come today where of course you have an HRIS and you know we're talking

[00:07:34] about different systems technology and it's remote work it's artificial intelligence

[00:07:40] you know there's all these very very different different things and there's a lot of

[00:07:45] different attitudes of people as well like the the current push towards this work life balance

[00:07:54] which is more life than than work is a very very different and these concepts of the things

[00:08:00] that people want and expect in a job now are completely different from what they wanted

[00:08:05] and expected in a job 20 25 years ago. Yeah that very much has changed and it's changing

[00:08:11] the whole way we work. Yeah. The where we work when we work how we work it's fascinating really

[00:08:20] and I want to talk about AI a little bit but I think HR is that's an area HR struggling with.

[00:08:28] It's an interesting it's an interesting thing because it's this technology

[00:08:34] that it's kind of being thrust upon us as well as people adopting it like it drives me insane

[00:08:44] you know on LinkedIn they're like every right with AI and every applicant tracking system out

[00:08:52] there is like now where you know AI powered like we didn't ask for this I don't know that we wanted

[00:08:59] I mean heaven knows I don't want LinkedIn to be powered by AI I don't I don't want to know

[00:09:07] what chat GPT thinks about something. I would like to know what Terry's ever thinks about something you

[00:09:12] know it's like I don't I don't want that there and I don't think that I'm alone on that

[00:09:18] and it you know gives you suggested responses and it's it's super annoying but it's being forced

[00:09:25] on us and it's making it's dumbing us down so it's like oh I can just click this button and it'll

[00:09:30] give me this response and that's not helpful. On the other hand AI is helpful for a lot of things

[00:09:39] I mean one of the things that it's most helpful for is you know our auto-correctant or phone

[00:09:46] is simply an AI algorithm it learns from what you've said before and predicts what you would say

[00:09:52] in the future and then it also figured out what you meant to say and while we mock it it's actually

[00:09:58] really good you know when it makes mistakes it makes mistakes and they're funny but most of

[00:10:06] the time it's actually correct and if you turn the the auto-correct off on your phone and you realize

[00:10:13] that you really have fat fingers and you're not hitting those keys exactly like you mean to

[00:10:18] because the auto-correct is fixing it. Yes so there are things that we really really do like it's

[00:10:24] scary to me the concept of these algorithms helping an applicant tracking systems because

[00:10:31] AI is full of bias and you're full of bias I'm full of bias everyone's full of bias we're

[00:10:36] all full of bias it's not like like oh I'm perfect in your perfect in AI is biased we're all biased

[00:10:43] but the problem with AI is that it brings that bias magnifies it and then it makes everybody

[00:10:53] that uses it biased in the same way whereas now you have your biases I have my biases we're both

[00:11:01] hiring someone you're going to be biased this way I'm going to be biased that way everybody gets

[00:11:06] a job if AI is choosing it's going to start at the same person for both of us. Yeah not a good

[00:11:13] thing I think this is some of the reasons that you know HR is spreading over it and I think

[00:11:20] there's a role for them to play right now I think there's a lot of things that it could do on the

[00:11:25] on the compliance side to sort of take away all that sort of basic HR related compliance work like

[00:11:35] serve up information which we've already been doing anyway to a large extent but when it comes

[00:11:41] to people in the interactions I feel like we're going to forget how to talk to people at some

[00:11:49] point if we can't even write a performance evaluation with our with our own words you know and

[00:11:56] yeah this is a huge concern of mine because AI is really good at the basic stuff but it's not

[00:12:06] good at advanced stuff but the problem is when you use it for the basic you never advance yourself

[00:12:15] because the only way to become a really good writer is to write a lot of crappy stuff at first right

[00:12:21] as I think if you're using AI to do your essays do all your emails do all this that's

[00:12:28] rate and it's efficient but you are not developing the way that you need to your stock

[00:12:37] and you're going to get worse and one of the things that I know for sure living here in Switzerland

[00:12:42] and the software for translating has gotten so much better in the 15 years that I've been here

[00:12:50] and I've become lazy with my German because I can just use default to translate it and so

[00:12:58] I've had people compliment me on my grammar when it's written and I'm like no no I didn't

[00:13:04] that's not me I wrote a new letter translate it's German it's my German has gotten worse as the

[00:13:10] technology has gotten better and that's going to happen to humans in all areas if we're letting AI

[00:13:18] do this now it kind of reminds me of the days of the calculator remember when

[00:13:23] I don't know you can't have a calculator to do your work and your homework and in school

[00:13:30] and all these kinds of things because you'll never know how to do math and

[00:13:34] it's not like you can just pull this out every you know anytime you need it and say well let me see

[00:13:40] what chipi t says I should say about this right after you say something I'm like type

[00:13:46] into my phone okay and this says yeah it's like yeah hold on a minute

[00:13:53] yeah it starts to become really impersonal you know we'll see how it evolves right and we'll adapt

[00:13:59] to it but it is an interesting dynamic especially for HR and I think a lot of people look to HR

[00:14:07] oftentimes with anything new like well are you gonna are you gonna go first

[00:14:14] well and and we become these like de facto company regulators of things and we're put in charge

[00:14:22] of the new you know when if you want to go back to 2020 which haven't forbid none of us want

[00:14:27] to go back to 2020 but um no I don't know about you but prior to 2020 I had never

[00:14:37] ever ever once thought about taking an employee's temperature when they came into work

[00:14:44] I had never never never once thought about a vaccine policy for employees I thought about it

[00:14:52] at school because you have to have your shot records for schools and all that back I I had never

[00:14:59] ever thought about asking employees for their vaccination record like it had never come

[00:15:06] into my head and then suddenly it was on HR shoulders and suddenly I am training thousands

[00:15:15] of people on how to follow CDC guidelines where did that come from why was that on my head like

[00:15:23] yeah I'm happy to take something on I like to do new things but it was like

[00:15:29] what in the heck and then the same thing is with HR who's making the the time for HR with AI

[00:15:36] who's making these policy decisions well HR is who's deciding how we use this and all of those things

[00:15:44] it's it's coming back on our heads which is great but are we equipped yeah that's that's the big

[00:15:52] question I think we're not and it's not it's not an HR issue to me it's a it's at the executive level

[00:16:00] HR is maybe one of the ones that has to carry out some of the things related to it but it's

[00:16:07] definitely an executive level decision and conversation right it absolutely is and it needs to be

[00:16:22] on our desks because what do we do about Bob right he's suddenly suddenly there's a yeah

[00:16:29] well the stuff what do we do about it is this evaluation of policy is this we don't have a policy what

[00:16:33] you mean exactly yeah yeah comes back to policy one that you know we do have some fanboys and

[00:16:40] girls here at sapient by the way stacey Harris is a big bandgirl of yours was very excited to know

[00:16:46] I was gonna be talking to you and do it a podcast with you one of the things I love about what

[00:16:53] you do is how you use comedy I've often thought that HR the business of HR can be too serious right

[00:17:03] I mean of course there are a lot of serious issues that we have to deal with in HR but

[00:17:08] I think most people know when it's not okay to laugh but I'm not sure they know

[00:17:15] in HR when it's okay to laugh right so I'm very curious about how you came up with this improvs

[00:17:23] on HR idea and just sort of the you know perception of HR in general because we can be very

[00:17:32] we can't take our ourselves pretty seriously absolutely and and we do take ourselves way too

[00:17:39] seriously sometimes but how it came about is I took an improv comedy class just for fun just just

[00:17:49] for fun and the more I learned about improv the more I was like oh my gosh there are so many applications

[00:17:58] real life it in HR and the more I studied improv and the more I practiced in train

[00:18:04] the more I just saw overlap after overlap after overlap and the biggest thing is this concept of

[00:18:13] yes and which is the foundation of improv which is you accept what's ever thrown at you and you

[00:18:28] what a beautiful hat you have on you don't say I'm not wearing a hat say oh yes thank you my

[00:18:35] grandmother gave it to me you know just you just build on it right yeah and that sums up the

[00:18:43] role of HR so perfectly because so often we aren't the decision maker but we have to just build on it

[00:18:51] the CEO says everybody back to the office and you can have your discussions behind the scenes

[00:18:59] and you can say your your piece but once that decision is made you've got to just accept it

[00:19:06] or you've got to get out it's super destructive if you're like yeah everybody the CEO says

[00:19:12] everyone back to the office but I think that's a stupid thing and he's gonna probably change his mind

[00:19:17] six months and that is completely destructive for the company completely you have to end it

[00:19:25] CEO says everybody back let's come back let's find the best solution let's do this let's do that

[00:19:31] let's you know work on these things how can we make it better for everybody you've got to do

[00:19:36] the end part if you were like oh it just it falls apart it's it's super destructive to the company

[00:19:44] yeah well and that's what they did when they came back right they said yes and oh we're gonna come

[00:19:50] back three days week and two days we're gonna you know work at home and you know or we're going to

[00:19:55] give people the option or you know they they came up with all sorts of sort of creative and innovative

[00:20:00] ways to to solve that problem but it's a great way of looking at things I think you know people

[00:20:07] don't want to say no most of the time in HR but they also sort of can accept things in the box

[00:20:16] and not and in the end helps you get outside of the box the end helps you get outside of the box

[00:20:22] and it gives you power over it and it also improves things it's like one of the the things

[00:20:33] that one of my improv team members always says is today is the day and show us as

[00:20:39] the before we go on stage which is this idea of whatever happens out there today is the day it is

[00:20:46] the you know this is the day where it happens so whenever the scene is this is it this is the day

[00:20:51] where it happens and and it's this empowering thing and if you think about that and that makes me sound

[00:20:57] like very much a rara you know motivational speaker which I'm not but today is the day what you do

[00:21:05] today you can make it better you can make it worse if you yes and things it will be better

[00:21:14] if you know but things then you don't move forward and this is something I see in so many areas

[00:21:25] of my life not just within within HR you know the the husband that I came here with is is now an

[00:21:32] ex husband and so one of the groups that I made and one of the things that I'm passionate about is

[00:21:38] I am in a group of of stuck mothers we are women that move abroad who are now divorced

[00:21:47] and cannot move back to our home countries because of custody issues so I I'm very happy here in

[00:21:54] Thailand I like it a lot but I can't take my children back to the United States and tell my

[00:22:00] youngest is 18 which is there's in two more years but I see so many women in this group who instead

[00:22:07] of just saying yes I am stuck here and now this is what I'm going to do they just say I'm stuck here

[00:22:14] and my life is ruined and and I can't do anything I can't I don't have any friends I am like you can

[00:22:21] make a friend anywhere but they're so in this my life would be good if I was back home okay but you're

[00:22:31] not you're not you're here and your options are to stay here with your kids or to go home by yourself

[00:22:38] because you can't you can't take the kids back and so what are you going to do how are you going

[00:22:46] and that okay I am stuck here in a place I don't want to be and now what and we can do that

[00:22:54] in our careers too so many people why I have a terrible boss okay so I have a terrible boss and

[00:23:01] and what oh but I can't find a new job I did not ask you I said and what what are you going to do

[00:23:08] now are you going to be angry and complain and focus on those bad things or are you going to treat

[00:23:14] your job like okay get a compartmentalized I'm going to do this and then I'm going to be done and

[00:23:19] I'm going to turn off my phone and I'm going to work on it or are you looking for a new job so many

[00:23:24] people that are like I have the worst job ever what was last time you applied for your job three years ago

[00:23:33] okay okay so bad the job market is terrible so I haven't tried the job market is terrible it's

[00:23:39] sucky I mean I know because I run in a different distance to evil nature I like to have

[00:23:44] evil nature jobs where people that are posting or are looking for jobs you can can post and there's

[00:23:49] so many people that are looking for jobs man it sucks it really does but it's not going to get better

[00:23:55] if you don't try you know have you had a professional look at your resume no okay maybe try that

[00:24:02] you know if you're not getting interviews do something and did yeah I love that I you know I'm

[00:24:10] yeah I kind of got goosebumps when you've talked about it because I was like you know that just

[00:24:13] every day we have things that get in our way and you can either stop and just let the road

[00:24:24] blocks stay there or you can push through it and it might not be what you dreamed it would be but

[00:24:32] it's better than staying behind the road block right it's better than staying behind the road block

[00:24:38] and it's better than giving up and thing like this is what my life is now it's this is what my life

[00:24:44] is now and now what that's the and now okay let's let's add to it let's let's move forward let's

[00:24:56] do something if if I don't like where I am then I can make changes I can make changes in me

[00:25:05] I can make changes in what I do you know it's it's that stuck when you feel stuck that is

[00:25:13] is sucking the life blood out of you it's okay this is my crappy situation this is my bad job

[00:25:20] this is the dumb policy this is the E okay I'm up with this is the you know it's a pretty

[00:25:25] hard decision that I hate okay not reality and and now it yeah a Gishie a lot to think about

[00:25:35] if you can put that in front of in front of every every conversation it's a powerful tool

[00:25:41] and I honestly recommend for everyone for their own personal growth and development taking improv

[00:25:50] class I know it sounds ridiculous but there's so many of those skills that make a difference

[00:25:57] in your life first you know the philosophy of you as an but it's also learning how to think on your

[00:26:02] feet which is the exact opposite of what AI is doing to us like it's something that that makes

[00:26:08] your brain go it's brain stretching a few weeks ago I took a seven hour improv class on a Saturday

[00:26:19] I came home I fell asleep at eight o'clock that night you know that's not me I'm a night

[00:26:28] hour usually go to bed at midnight I was so exhausted from the brain work that seven hours of

[00:26:35] stretching my brain while six because we took an hour for lunch but it's a lot but it's really good

[00:26:41] and people are like oh but I'm not funny yes you are everybody's funny

[00:26:46] everyone is funny I teach beginning improv I've never once had a student for that wasn't funny

[00:26:53] I was thinking about that coming into this conversation I'm like I'm not very funny like

[00:26:58] I can be funny at certain points but it's like some people are just really good at

[00:27:06] the moment right and always know that that funny thing to say like I used to work with a guy

[00:27:12] at Mercer who recently just learned he passed away and all I could think about was all the

[00:27:20] fun times with him where he was always he never took himself or the work too seriously like no

[00:27:28] matter what we were at you know he was always laughing cutting jokes taking funny pictures like

[00:27:36] he'd bring those noves in those glasses with the mustache and everybody put him on so he could

[00:27:41] make picture and I don't know he was just a cookie monster he brought cookie monsters and would run

[00:27:47] around and have everybody hold it and get your picture with cookie monster I mean that's just like

[00:27:52] kind of person he was he always you know he just didn't take things so seriously and I mean again

[00:27:59] I hate you know HR is a serious business sometimes but you know it doesn't always have to be

[00:28:06] it doesn't always have to be and even when it is the way we approach it if we approach it like

[00:28:14] the world is coming to an end that's a very different approach then hey here's a problem how can I

[00:28:21] solve it let's let's fix this and I was I was talking with one of my moderators on my

[00:28:28] even HR group which she's brand new and we're not announcing the new moderators until

[00:28:35] next week so I can't say her name but she was saying that that attitude when employees come to

[00:28:43] her she's like do you want to just why to me are you want me to help you fix it can we fix it

[00:28:50] and they're like oh I thought you'd be mad at me and she's like well it was a dumb choice but

[00:28:54] yeah let's fix it right yeah and and even though I hate this idea on an intellectual level

[00:29:06] because so many people think of HR is like the school principal or all this the mom that's the

[00:29:12] and I admit that I am far too motherly and you know I'm a cookie baker and you know I'm always like

[00:29:18] here have a cookie but your mom is always going to be looking to help you even when you make

[00:29:27] dumb choices now we're not motherly in that we will fire you but I you know I have no problem

[00:29:34] and you won't fire child you know exactly you know occasionally ground them or take away their

[00:29:40] phone or whatever whatever you do with children these days I don't know might have an adult child

[00:29:48] a teenager so that's very old teenager so it's like whatever you guys live your thing but they're

[00:29:54] always looking for what's best and what you think is insurmountable as a child your mother can fix

[00:30:00] most of the time or your father can fix and as an employee things that you think are insurmountable

[00:30:05] a lot of times there's a solution and you just don't know at HR knows it oh well did you know that

[00:30:12] you can get a go to your doctor and get the sperm filled out and then we'll go to this interactive

[00:30:19] process and we'll get you the support you need to do your job oh I didn't know that was possible

[00:30:23] I thought they were just really exactly with people who are blind or in wheelchairs no it's for

[00:30:27] everybody that has any sort of disability oh you know oh well you can take FMLA to help you

[00:30:34] deal with your wife's cancer oh I can yes you can take this time off to tell you if you're

[00:30:42] know what we know oh here's a phone number for the employee assistance program they can help you

[00:30:49] find a mortgage get a lawyer get therapy just all of these things that are available to employees

[00:30:57] that they don't know about they think their role is coming to an end and they're really like here's

[00:31:03] a 100 number they can fix it oh I didn't know yeah yeah yeah and the choices are not always binary

[00:31:11] right they you know like they come and say well I can either do ARB yeah and I don't like either

[00:31:16] choice well maybe there's a sea yeah right maybe there's a sea maybe there's a D you know there's a

[00:31:23] cube we're a lot of people there's a cube like let's keep going I hate my boss okay you know

[00:31:30] what don't you like about your boss well maybe it's possible to transfer oh really yeah or you know

[00:31:37] well maybe maybe maybe the reason why you hate your boss is because your boss is always on your

[00:31:43] case because you're doing crappy work so let's increase your level do you need training and

[00:31:49] something do you need support do you need an accommodation under ADA you know do you need a flexible

[00:31:54] schedule there's so many things that we can do for people that people are not aware of let us

[00:32:01] help you and and that is a very powerful thing that HR can do do does every HR person do know

[00:32:11] is every HR person good no some are terrible some are absolutely terrible and I'm sure in your

[00:32:17] career you've encountered them oh yes yeah and I'm sorry if you have terrible HR I really am but not

[00:32:26] every HR person is terrible and a lot of very good yeah they are that's the question I had for

[00:32:31] you what do you think the perception of HR is I know you know in our study and the research

[00:32:38] that we do a number of years ago we looked at the strategic focus of how how HR was viewed

[00:32:47] or whether they were even viewed as strategic and one compared to other groups like finance and supply

[00:32:55] HR was was pretty low less than 50 percent it was about 45 percent they were just hovering

[00:33:01] there for several years we started a challenge that said hey we're going to get to 55 by 25 we

[00:33:08] want to we want to move the needle we want more we want to be viewed as strategic so what is it

[00:33:14] that we're not doing what are the things that we need to be practicing in order to you know

[00:33:20] be at the table right and be making the decisions not just focused on compliance but be focused

[00:33:26] on business outcomes and so yeah I'm curious what your thoughts are in terms of you know how

[00:33:32] people perceive HR HR as long as I've been in HR there's always been negative attitudes towards HR

[00:33:41] and part of that is the nature of the game right when you're in trouble you know if your boss calls

[00:33:48] and says you know hey Terry come coming for meeting you walk in and sitting there is the HR manager

[00:33:56] you know you're in trouble because they don't bring the HR manager in to be like you have

[00:34:01] so great we're going to you know give you this new project no no so a lot of employees

[00:34:07] they're only interaction with HR is when they're hired and you know there's a lot of

[00:34:18] we are separate and there's a lot of HR people are like no recruiters is different I think it's critical

[00:34:23] that we realize we are all the people team that what a recruiter does affects what I do and what you

[00:34:31] do 20 years down the road you know we are all part of the team but so people know HR and when they

[00:34:37] think of HR they think of recruiters and everybody's had about experience with a recruiter

[00:34:43] everybody I have you have everybody has never met anybody who hasn't never met anybody that

[00:34:48] hasn't been ghosted never met anybody that hasn't had multiple job interviews and then nothing

[00:34:55] like it's it's not even that I didn't get the job it's that nothing I didn't hear back I see

[00:35:01] all the time people that will submit their application at two o'clock in the morning and within five

[00:35:07] minutes they get a rejection notice that's not a human doing that it is my some AI and

[00:35:13] or not AI even it can be like there's a checkbox thing that you have to have you know

[00:35:19] you have to be fluent in Japanese and you're not so you're thrown out right you have to

[00:35:23] have a degree in finance you don't you're throwing out but they see it as this real

[00:35:29] impersonalization and then we're also the people that are the face behind we had a really great

[00:35:36] year this year and everyone's gonna get a 2% raise right it was not our

[00:35:43] decision I've never been the budget person I ran the annual budget increase for several years

[00:35:49] for a fortune 50 company and it was never my decision finance gave me the percent yeah

[00:35:56] that's been a thankless job I helped organizations do that as well and that was

[00:36:01] a very thankless job was running that process yeah it's fun in that I love a project because

[00:36:08] there's a beginning of it all in an end and like you're done you were like

[00:36:11] and then the next year starts up again but yeah it's a thankless job and people blame HR oh

[00:36:16] well HR didn't do this and managers blame HR oh I'd love to give you your promotion but HR won't let

[00:36:22] me yeah instead of saying you know what we didn't have the numbers this year the business didn't

[00:36:28] you know it wasn't as profitable as we expected to be or we didn't make enough of these widgets

[00:36:34] you know badly or your poor performer that's why you're not giving the promotion yeah I'd

[00:36:42] love to promote you but HR won't let me I mean in every HR person has had a manager of

[00:36:46] parent and their office saying I want to fire this person and you say why and they start

[00:36:50] spouting off to you about how horrible they are they're like where is your documentation oh I

[00:36:53] have don't have anything you pull out their last employee annual review and their rated you know

[00:36:58] seeds expectations you're like exactly the part of it that's the long way to say part of it

[00:37:04] is just the nature of the job that people have this negative attitude the other part of it is as I

[00:37:10] said some HR people are absolutely terrible terrible horrible people who have no business in being

[00:37:18] in HR and the thing is if you are a terrible horrible person in finance or marketing or operations

[00:37:24] everyone just kind of accepts that oh you're horrible but we're supposed to be the people person

[00:37:32] so if we're not good it makes the whole profession look bad no one says oh my gosh my marketing

[00:37:39] manager was such a narcissistic jerk I hate marketing right but the HR manager was such a narcissistic

[00:37:51] HR sucks right that's the that's the thing and and we bring that on ourselves we don't

[00:37:59] police ourselves we put up with things and and then we devalue ourselves and that makes companies devalue

[00:38:11] us another one of my moderators this one I can say your name because she's been moderator for

[00:38:17] I don't know how many years one zillion she's amazing Marie Lobezoo she just posted she's had a

[00:38:22] post-to-go viral on LinkedIn like 2.5 million views and where she posted some some salary combined

[00:38:31] with job descriptions of HR job postings $50,000 for a senior level HR that is fully in Spanish

[00:38:39] English you know that that is somebody in finance it's completely devaluing what they do and

[00:38:47] the problem with that is that they're going to be able to find someone that's willing to do if $50,000

[00:38:51] but that person's going to be terrible that person is going to be terrible you guarantee and

[00:38:58] and then that justifies in their head see HR sucks why would I pay any and you have sure the biggest

[00:39:07] HR organization probably in the world who doesn't pay their speakers they pay their celebrity speakers

[00:39:17] but they don't pay their other speakers they'll pay transportation for some not all if you're

[00:39:24] free ticket and people are willing to do it but if if the biggest HR organization in the world doesn't

[00:39:31] value HR expertise enough to throw them 500 bucks to come speak why should a CEO value

[00:39:42] HR ideas sure doesn't value them and now I'm never going to be allowed to speak it sure

[00:39:48] what they won't pay me you know it's like when our biggest organization says no you guys aren't worth

[00:39:58] anything we'll pay $400,000 to Jason's to deck as who will stand us up and that's the ball game

[00:40:07] but we won't pay an expert to come in and make you a better HR person yeah what to get point really good point

[00:40:18] yeah when our big body doesn't value us forget why should a CEO value us when when what's

[00:40:27] bucket Johnny I can't remember his last name that's terrible the you know the head of

[00:40:30] Sharon doesn't value us you have a value us if he valued us he'd pay the speakers yeah and now sometimes

[00:40:36] I forget that it's always somebody's first day in HR right you know maybe they studied it

[00:40:45] maybe they were like us they just got lucky they fell into it they had to record the skills I don't know

[00:40:51] but what advice would you give someone on their first day in HR goodness gracious my first advice

[00:41:02] was it would be you can't do anything that we can fix we can fix it right so don't panic

[00:41:13] we can fix it just about anything can be fixed and I'm not going to bring up things that can't

[00:41:18] but you know don't fire anybody and don't hire anybody without sign-offs everything else we can

[00:41:26] we can pretty much fix so make it okay to to make a mistake and then to learn as much as possible

[00:41:36] and I'm just bad now sure which I will continue to do on that because that is my

[00:41:41] my hobby horse is this if you value HR you will pay them and you don't so anyway but it's okay

[00:41:51] you'll make them better you know criticism makes you better right so yeah that's my theory um

[00:41:57] but get your sort of occasions whether through Sherman or HRCI or AI HR is really coming up in

[00:42:06] prestige now I've worked a lot with AI HR just so they are good people like I know the

[00:42:13] people behind it and they're good people it's good material I wrote some of it so I know but

[00:42:17] get sort of occasions learn things ask to go to conferences don't worry about the key notes go

[00:42:23] to the breakout sessions and learn those things anybody that's like oh here's my big

[00:42:30] presentation on the future work forget it don't bother to go in there it's not going to help you

[00:42:35] it's not going to help you one of the things a few months ago Victoria Percer and I launched HR

[00:42:40] learns and we're an HR training company and our big thing is we don't want you to walk away feeling

[00:42:47] better about yourself we want you to walk away knowing how to be better how to make changes we're

[00:42:53] not a raw raw look at HR of the future we are real HR how and I help you today to make a difference

[00:43:02] and learn those things join the EVIL HR LATER LATER Facebook group and that's not just

[00:43:09] soft promotion it's a really great group it's really great it really is you will learn so

[00:43:18] much there from from the people in there and and you can get your questions answered and it's okay

[00:43:27] to have a stupid question and also stay away from chat to PT when you are new that is not the

[00:43:34] place to find your answers because you can't trust it you know I can go in and say hey what are

[00:43:41] the requirements for FMLA and it'll give me a nice list but I'm already an expert on FMLA so if

[00:43:48] it makes a mistake I know all I'm doing that for is just so that I don't have to retipe it myself

[00:43:53] right so that I can just copy and paste it somewhere but if you're brand new and it makes a mistake

[00:43:58] how do you know how do you know you don't know so make sure you're learning things yourself

[00:44:08] and yeah I think those would be my that's a lot of overwhelming for actually my first day advice

[00:44:14] is welcome at some point you're going to cry and it's okay we've all cried

[00:44:20] yeah I think that the two things that you were all about yourself yeah I will I mean I took away a

[00:44:26] couple of things from that one is you know learn be a learner look for opportunities and and learn

[00:44:33] everything that you can about this and if you're going to trust AI you'd have to trust but verify

[00:44:40] yeah you you have to trust but but verify and even the problem with verification is that if you don't

[00:44:46] know enough you can't verify it right you know one of the examples I use in my in my webinar is

[00:44:53] I will ask AI I'll ask touch TPP what is the law regarding nursing mothers in the workforce and it

[00:45:01] gives a beautiful answer without mentioning the pump act or the pregnant worker's fairness act why

[00:45:08] because the data in touch TPP is old and those are new laws and so you're like oh you know it says

[00:45:15] the Farley worst standards act gosh I don't remember the name of the act that was the thing before

[00:45:21] anyway it's part of that thought that they and if you Google that to verify it'll it'll tell you

[00:45:27] that it's correct but it doesn't tell you that there's new things on top of it you know you've got to be

[00:45:33] aware you have to you have to know what's going on now like if she a little bit of nervousness about

[00:45:40] future it's it's a huge problem it's it's a huge problem and we're gonna see the whole AI thing

[00:45:49] making employees worse with students not doing their own work and using AI to learn to write

[00:45:58] writing is thinking and you're not doing the thought and the process is when you're not writing

[00:46:06] and that's why universities have historically placed so much effort on writing it's not that we want

[00:46:10] to make you into a novelist so we want to teach you the thing and when you're copying and pasting

[00:46:17] out of out of AI you're not thinking you're not learning you're not stretching your brain

[00:46:23] and I get more and more of these people in whose skill is is not in thinking but maybe perhaps

[00:46:32] in beating the AI detectors that the professors are using. Yeah not really a skill that we need

[00:46:39] well I mean I would take an improv class because that sounds like a lot of fun.

[00:46:43] I wish it's so much fun it's so much fun. Love it. Well Suzanne thank you so much for joining me today

[00:46:49] this is a bit of great conversation I support to do it again we need we need to do another one

[00:46:54] I know we could find plenty to talk about absolutely it was delightful. Thanks to our producers

[00:47:01] brand method media group and our marketing team who will take care of getting this out there to the audience

[00:47:08] and thank you for tuning in that's all the time we have for this episode of HR we have a problem

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