The People-First Approach at Southwest Airlines: Building Relationships in Talent Acquisition

[00:00:10] Hey, this is William Tinkup and Ryan Lerry and you're listening, hopefully watching the Practitioner Quarter Podcast.

[00:00:16] Today we have Greg on. Ryan, how you doing? How's your day?

[00:00:20] I am fan-tastic, I'm super excited for today's call.

[00:00:24] Okay, here we go. Greg, would you do us a favor, the audience of favor and introduce yourself?

[00:00:30] Absolutely, my name is Greg Muccio. I am the head of Talent Acquisition at Southwest Airlines.

[00:00:36] I just celebrated my 23rd anniversary with them on Tuesday, so I'm out right?

[00:00:43] Is that even great?

[00:00:45] No, I told my boss it's like I took the under on my side and told him to let me off.

[00:00:49] I lost some money there but it was still a smart bed at that time.

[00:00:54] You need to get to a correct fairies.

[00:00:58] Wow, you know who's at Southwest, you probably didn't push across.

[00:01:03] Libby's are tamed.

[00:01:05] Yeah, she was a huge R.O. 100 years ago.

[00:01:08] Literally I started probably within three months or so after she left my code, her role was still open at the time that I started.

[00:01:19] She's absolutely lovely, lives down in central Texas and she's on the board of manpower.

[00:01:26] So I just recently got to reconnect with her and because she was in a board meeting that I was presenting in.

[00:01:33] And she's just like, she's Texan.

[00:01:37] So she's like, one of my answers she fought for the Republic of Texas.

[00:01:41] So I've got that stuff going on as soon as she actually her answers to the fought for the Republic.

[00:01:49] They gave him like 600 acres.

[00:01:52] Their cargo has been with bought the 600 acres.

[00:01:56] Wow, that was like a fluke.

[00:01:58] That was the key.

[00:01:59] Right, for sure.

[00:02:01] And so yeah, wonderful person.

[00:02:04] And one full HR strategist, just that's cool.

[00:02:08] So 23 years?

[00:02:09] I think it's Jenny, I think it's very with her from everything that I'm known right or been able to see.

[00:02:13] You know, very genuine and I don't think it's changed.

[00:02:18] No, you know, through her journey or whatever, which is that that's nice to see with anybody right where there's this core thing that you can sort of count on I guess.

[00:02:28] Yeah, yeah, it's predictable.

[00:02:30] She's that person whether or not she's at Yahoo or at Southwest or wherever she is.

[00:02:36] Same person.

[00:02:37] Same person.

[00:02:38] So what's your current.

[00:02:39] What do you do at Southwest again?

[00:02:41] What's the title?

[00:02:42] Yeah, so I'm the managing director of Palinacquisition or I'm the lead head of Palinacquisition.

[00:02:49] So yeah, okay, I've been in TA the whole entire time.

[00:02:52] I started out as a recruiter and just kind of worked my way up.

[00:02:57] And at this point in time, I've been really blessed with some really good leaders and the last two.

[00:03:04] I've really gave me a lot of freedom to sort of kind of create an organization.

[00:03:10] And so I have approximately maybe 250 people in my TA org and really have built it.

[00:03:18] So that it's the way I like to describe it is we're a full service staffing company with one client.

[00:03:27] And that client ended up in the year determines whether or not to renew our contract.

[00:03:31] And that's really how I want us, how I like us to approach the work so that it's not about handling a wreck.

[00:03:39] It's about a service that you provide right if that makes sense.

[00:03:43] And then we also do something what I call full service.

[00:03:50] Full service staffing or full total talent staffing, if you will, which is we do a lot of silver and bronze medals.

[00:04:01] If you will, right. And so just more of an approach where we're trying to, you know, I may talk to you, William and go man, he's in great, great Southwest fit.

[00:04:14] And maybe we had, you put him for a role and we chose Ryan, but we're like, wow, you know, and so now part of what we do and even some part of our text up.

[00:04:27] So text up helps support us to go, he will even hear three other roles that you're actually a match with and and and and be able to do that.

[00:04:36] So it's just excited to be able to build I've been gotten to build a program and we said we do, we have a curmability team, we have a campus team we're literally in elementary schools talking about aviation.

[00:04:51] And I have a huge recruitment marketing candidate experience team. So just really excited about all that.

[00:04:59] A couple of things are great, but one, I want to understand how, because it's very rare that we talk, I think we maybe talked that of the 100 in some episodes we've done already.

[00:05:10] One person that's been with the company for two years.

[00:05:14] You didn't come in as a recruiter there, so I'm going to be there for 20 years.

[00:05:19] What kept you there? Let's start there and then we'll get into some of the funds.

[00:05:24] First up was a recruiter. You're just saying you're a recruiter.

[00:05:29] I was always a role so you're a recruiter.

[00:05:32] My own department, so HR and then that was where I started and then got to support the finance department internal audit.

[00:05:43] And then what we called a time they were called network planning that brought through much bigger now or whatever but so a lot of those businesses really really good.

[00:05:53] And then just I'll get to your clients your question Ryan, but one of the things that I don't know why I like to share this with people but I do think it's before I got my first leadership role at Southwest.

[00:06:05] I interviewed seven times and didn't get whatever within the same organization.

[00:06:11] So sometimes when I have that person that gets upset about them, I'm like you got six more.

[00:06:15] Six more questions for you could let me know when you at least get the four and I can we can start congratulating.

[00:06:22] But yeah you didn't get your first one in a year and a half of being here. It's like yeah let's let's talk a little bit but yeah you know right I was laughing this week when people were we were talking about you know being here 23 years and I said yeah I'm like the next closest competitor.

[00:06:41] Nineteen and a half years or whatever is the next thing into your point it's not there and you know I think where I work it's it's certainly about the people I think the culture at Southwest.

[00:06:52] You know what I always tell people is.

[00:06:56] You know the things that you read about it can't do it justice until you're here they just really can I mean it's like that's really good.

[00:07:03] I got ten other stories that are better than that right and what those pieces are and and so you know I've had opportunity and you know I've answered that question before Ryan or said hey it's just literally when you go to bed.

[00:07:18] You know on Sunday night and you're not dreading going to work on Monday or going to bed any night and the hooch,

[00:07:25] I think you're not getting ready for bed any day and you're not even getting ready to work on Friday or not that it's easy or already that kind of stuff but you're not dreading it and you begin just thinking of the people that you do to work with or whatever.

[00:07:34] And so that's just always been my piece is like okay and I love it and I get to do these things.

[00:07:42] So that's what someone has to come offer me right I can't just be a better title or more money.

[00:07:48] It's got to be am I gonna am I gonna feel that same way about another job right and that's and so that's that's one of the really big reasons.

[00:07:57] It seems like her created it that way it's a people first business yes it's transportation and yes it's it's aviation etc but.

[00:08:10] People are at the heart or at the center of what Southwest it's easy to as an outsider at least it seems like it's always been that way.

[00:08:20] Yeah no for sure and I think what's fun as well is you know through our history so many of the really innovative and creative and and money making things that we've come up with.

[00:08:34] Come from an individual person they are not necessarily some you know executive top down or whatever that said this is what we're going to do so many of our historic ideas.

[00:08:51] I think that's a really you know huge piece and of course obviously in my role and whether I'm talking to candidates or talking to folks like you or my own team and just kind of go hey those are just things you've got to.

[00:09:07] I mean you're looking at it and I don't sometimes people don't do that I think this fascinating I don't we have a really large probably of our well over 4,000 probably even higher than that of employees that we call boomerangs right that left and came back and I think that always says.

[00:09:29] I'm a lot just because they've had this it goes someplace else and there's like okay wait a minute I miss out and I'm really kind of go back so yeah.

[00:09:41] Yeah I think if you asked Ryan if he would go back to connect the old connects a pretty I mean if he would go back and work with Rudy and all that stuff he'd go back he leave he'd leave.

[00:09:55] Say bye William.

[00:09:58] There's a nobody there's a host building.

[00:10:01] You can see behind me I've got this red photo here I've got a green one there now eventually they'll get up on the wall.

[00:10:08] Yeah.

[00:10:08] They're from 2008 to 2007.

[00:10:11] They're connects the posters.

[00:10:12] They're connected they were the the the the the EB the core values of connect.

[00:10:18] Yeah.

[00:10:19] They were the connections and I was like I really liked them and they sent them to me and that was it and I've had him ever since they've been on the wall they just been down for a while.

[00:10:30] Yeah.

[00:10:31] You go back again you might get tempted with the grass as greener you get into the to the boomerangs you get tempted more money a title you know whatever more travel whatever.

[00:10:41] Yeah.

[00:10:42] But it is and I'm saying you go do that they're like yeah the money's not worth out.

[00:10:46] Yeah always say it's like yeah the grass is greener still has to get mode.

[00:10:50] Yeah.

[00:10:50] It's going to get mode like you so you know there's that piece and you know Ryan I think that you know talking about those values I think that that's really important because I think one of the things that we always you know what we will tell people a lot of times in the interview is to be your authentic self right that's who we want to see coming into work every day now.

[00:11:11] Sure you know we have some values as well and they're not negotiable but we're looking for that and who we're hiring and also just hoping that people identify with that and then you can also show up in that way right and and so you know people is you know have somebody it's like you know I flew on you know the other day it was really great but the flight of tenant wasn't it's funny is it normal like well you know that's they don't have to be

[00:11:41] funny right like they have to be I have to keep you safe number one that's their main job.

[00:11:48] It's just the reality.

[00:11:50] Yeah it's just an excuse.

[00:11:52] So jokes are optional and jokes are optional and the ones that do that they're not told to do that that's there you know just the same and how they do it and you know I'm sure some get more comfortable or confident over time but it's but it's it's piece of that that's right like yeah you could do that but.

[00:12:11] You could maybe never tell a joke over the microphone you know if you will and still be you know one of the greatest flight attendants that we've ever had because of how you're individually taking care.

[00:12:23] Yeah customers and obviously keeping them safe and and that's that way for for all of our roles I think right is like hey okay.

[00:12:31] That Southwest fit if you will or whatever that is it's about those values but people can show them in different ways.

[00:12:39] I wish you are more flight satellite like I mean there's nothing I can't do anything and it used to be a ton of things that used to be the airline now I'm on American but because we don't have the options.

[00:12:50] But I just I I've always loved the branding the commercials the colors everything it's always been very iconic from.

[00:12:59] Yeah well it's again I think it comes from the heart I think it's not contrives like I think old baby did this big years ago where they did all their unknowns.

[00:13:09] They did all their advertising internal yeah and so they did do it with an agency and so they used real associates and it was just like it was them.

[00:13:18] Yeah even your commercials anytime you see somebody in a uniform that's a Southwest employee we there's never.

[00:13:26] And actor that's all been that particular piece such as really kind of cool and fun and then it's fun when you you see him out or whatever it may be as well and and do that piece but it's yeah it's really cool.

[00:13:38] I'd be asking for autographs just for you.

[00:13:42] Yeah.

[00:13:43] It's a little celebrity.

[00:13:44] So you're on the safety video on.

[00:13:47] Can you get your autograph from me here?

[00:13:49] All right so let's go.

[00:13:50] It's going to be good right.

[00:13:51] It's going to be a good flight.

[00:13:52] I was a little bit nervous.

[00:13:54] I was just always what they're doing.

[00:13:55] Yeah.

[00:13:55] There I was there on the safety video.

[00:13:57] I was reading a script relax okay.

[00:14:01] If playing goes down I'm out first.

[00:14:03] I'm not so.

[00:14:06] No no no.

[00:14:07] So let's go back to high school college.

[00:14:10] What did you want me?

[00:14:11] What was the ish dream?

[00:14:14] Yeah you know probably thanks so many others right you kind of build that up you know who's in your life and around you.

[00:14:22] And so my dad and my brothers who are all in sales.

[00:14:27] And so that's what I knew the most of right what was that particular piece.

[00:14:31] I had a had a had a brief fantasy around.

[00:14:38] Well okay.

[00:14:40] That's good.

[00:14:41] It's going to be magnum PI because that's okay.

[00:14:43] So it's like okay.

[00:14:45] It's true.

[00:14:46] It comes out.

[00:14:47] It comes out.

[00:14:48] Come on now.

[00:14:49] It's coming out.

[00:14:50] So there are like I'm going to go into the Navy and being a Navy and Colitan.

[00:14:54] And so then you know I had a family member in the service that's like let me explain something to you.

[00:14:59] Okay.

[00:15:00] That's a good call.

[00:15:02] Then then you know a brief moment of you know I could be a really good lawyer and then learn like how much reading was involved.

[00:15:09] That's like probably not a good call as well.

[00:15:12] And so that's what literally that's what turned me off to it too.

[00:15:16] I talked to a pre-law student.

[00:15:20] And they were like oh yeah when you get to law school you're literally going to be reading about 1000 pages of night.

[00:15:26] I'm like take it.

[00:15:29] I heard that same thing in the mic.

[00:15:31] That's more than I've been up to this point in time and my father is an assistant.

[00:15:36] So I don't know anything.

[00:15:38] But he does summarize.

[00:15:40] I feel like we've got him from the same clock here.

[00:15:42] I literally asked the counselor in college.

[00:15:47] He was like hey I'm like which major has the least amount of science in it?

[00:15:51] And they're like a good business.

[00:15:53] You only have to take six hours and you can take a strong amount of money and I'm like let's go with that one.

[00:15:59] But yeah I was you know I did go it was you know marketing and you did those kind of tests that you would do in high school.

[00:16:06] That's kind of where you know it shot out and you know I'll be honest.

[00:16:11] I you know my first I think either three or four roles out of college was in sales and I was actually at a staffing agency in sales.

[00:16:25] And finally just had that moment where I was like man.

[00:16:30] Not only do I really hate this.

[00:16:33] Really bad at it too.

[00:16:34] And I'm like that's just a root.

[00:16:37] That's not a good combination for real for your longevity and I mean and the thing was is that was at my at least third different type of sales or fourth even.

[00:16:48] And so it's like yeah it's not the product it's not that and then how many years.

[00:16:55] Maybe from graduating class I was probably maybe 29.

[00:17:00] Yes, 30 at that I would say yeah.

[00:17:03] Like right quit a staffing firm is staffing job after his honeymoon he gets buried because only this money means come on back goes.

[00:17:13] Enough of this right well now there was it wasn't that simple great.

[00:17:19] I came in and my manager said something to me and I lost interest and I said I'm not in.

[00:17:26] That was an interaction before I said I wasn't in the office.

[00:17:31] So you know the interactions you know those interactions right yeah.

[00:17:37] There there.

[00:17:38] So one of the things that they did is they were like hey the one thing that we see from you what you do sell and seem to be able to explain really well is per placement.

[00:17:49] And we don't actually have anybody in the office that knows how to recruit for that or do that would you would you be interested in you know if we created that as a role and you know you had to fund your own stuff but you could do this and I was like sure.

[00:18:06] And so you did both sides of the desk yeah they both sides of the desk for a long time fast up my time at the agency just to kind of grow was.

[00:18:17] You know an on-site person at one of our larger clients here in the area and you know that was some really great you know experience just being able to do that but.

[00:18:29] It.

[00:18:30] What drove me ultimately to then Southwest I was okay, but it was it was right during the dot combat and you know William I know you're from this area there's a whole corridor.

[00:18:42] It's a company and and you know we had probably 80% of our pants were in that overnight you know we're within gone on and so I'm watching people kind of get laid off for you know not their own doing and I just was like you know.

[00:19:01] You've been in that environment even if you're safe being left behind is not sometimes the greatest thing either and and had a good friend from church in a Bible study that.

[00:19:13] We were just talking and she was like hey I know one of the creators there and I think they have an opening and pass the resume along in.

[00:19:21] 23 years ago and you know here I am so yeah.

[00:19:24] So for the audience real quick.

[00:19:27] Greg and I both grew up in Arlington Texans he went to a rival high school there I say a better high school at the time.

[00:19:34] In the 80s and one of my fights in high school many many fights but one of my fights in high school was in the Lamar parking lot school park on a Friday night.

[00:19:48] I for whatever reason me and friends were hanging out with a bunch of girls from all mar and the football team came back from a loss.

[00:19:56] And I had cult stickers Arlington I had my high school stickers on my car and all this said it's like there's all these people that are very angry.

[00:20:07] Very angry and we're talking to the girls from the school on place.

[00:20:14] Bad bad bad bad bad bad bad.

[00:20:16] You don't have thought since that if they would have won like it was supposed to if they would have won probably would have to have what happened.

[00:20:24] Yeah yeah well that's you before we started recording and we were trying to and we were educating Ryan on just you know Friday night lights and you know if you're not you know the movie is real like just you know we actually.

[00:20:40] It was two years maybe three after I graduated that team that's portrayed.

[00:20:48] Lamar played them in the playoffs or whatever because.

[00:20:51] Oh really that's part of me and that was one of the things is their school that school is okay.

[00:20:59] So yeah the kids.

[00:21:02] Right we when I went to that playoff game I kid you not and this you know figure.

[00:21:07] That's a text city of yeah they had no penalties and from this from an I view make no mistakes no blocking mistakes no no assignment mistakes.

[00:21:19] It was a part of it was a place in the college team and I think maybe that team might have had one or two kids that went to D1 ball but it was because they just played.

[00:21:31] So much like a unit and you truly had to beat them to beat them so yeah.

[00:21:36] I was with Wal-Mart and in the 90s late 80s and 90s I lived out in Odessa and Midland so I lived in Midland open a store there and went to Odessa and open a store there and that stuff is real like.

[00:21:50] We know go like like the Walmart you could just like sales on a Friday night yeah there's nothing there nobody you almost shut down the store.

[00:21:57] That's six because everyone's going to the game or everyone's going somewhere to the bus.

[00:22:03] That was a bus full of kids right that you know they were angry and upset on their own but what they were thinking about is the next day a practice and how because you always came in on Saturday and try to you one.

[00:22:17] You had donuts and watched film and maybe a small little job you lost you were in the bleachers until you couldn't block anymore but then also it was facing your parents who had a friend this case traveled or whatever.

[00:22:32] And so yeah you were wrong place wrong time for folks to get some frustration out.

[00:22:39] Yep, yep, yep, they do well for me.

[00:22:42] So where did you go to school?

[00:22:43] So you can you can you can you can stay local and you know funny story on on the connection and I you know.

[00:22:55] For where I am now as a leader of this and I didn't spot it at the time so so luckily you can see that I've learned and grown but but when I was in college I was also in a fraternity and participated in a lot in rush and I and I when I was there.

[00:23:12] I really re branded our rush.

[00:23:15] I was you know when I was selected to do it I thought ours was really boring and we just did a lot of things to the point where even afterwards even after I graduated.

[00:23:25] I would get asked to come back and I'll rush to everybody else and how to do this and I always tell everybody about when you're looking for work don't get hung up on the titles because they don't make sense and I said when I graduated college.

[00:23:42] I had companies listed jobs at a city of recruiter as Rust chairman.

[00:23:47] I would have known exactly what I would have done and I would have been in this a recruiter since I was 23 years old right because I knew that that's what it was and where it was and it wasn't really till towards the end of my time at the staffing company.

[00:24:04] When I was talking to somebody else about it and they were like, of course you are good at it.

[00:24:08] It's the same thing as recruiting and you're good at that and it was just like the light bulb just like oh yeah I saw that too.

[00:24:16] I just was testing you if you and so that's just you know so and I and I like to tell that I like to tell you the people that are listing because.

[00:24:25] Most likely there are a lot of things like that that are who you are and being developed at a average younger age than what then what we maybe give credit for it just looks different it's called something different or whatever but.

[00:24:40] There is so much of that and you know one of the reasons why I'm real passionate about one of the things that we do at Southwest where we are now and.

[00:24:50] You know I have a campus team and we do a really great internship program but we also now have a high school internship program.

[00:24:58] We do a summer camp for high school age employees kids to teach them about the ways of work at Southwest so they've grown up being excited about Southwest whatever their mom dad or but but that may not be what they want to be right and so.

[00:25:14] Show them all these different opportunities but we go into junior highs as well and when we do 88 days for third to eighth grade and then we're in elementary schools and a big piece of that and one of my huge beliefs is.

[00:25:29] We don't have as big of a skills gap in this country as we do and awareness gap that's where the real problem is at that age is you look at it you know if you go talk or three or four years ago if you would go talk.

[00:25:47] You know, to an elementary school kid you know what do you want to be when you grow up right firemen.

[00:25:55] You know, you know, those types of things because that's either what they know and maybe you know what their parent does or whatever and so I think it was just really really important to be able to do that and then.

[00:26:08] We certainly know as you as you begin to do things with either you know in diversity or female the younger they get planted a seed for something that is stem the better right there so the early you can get into that and so that's one of the reasons where really I'm really passionate about it and we are.

[00:26:27] It's just to create that awareness and then help them begin to show them the way that they can get there right and what that is and in part of it for me is just as truly that.

[00:26:37] I own personal journey that it's like man if somebody would have been able to set down a go man you know you're really like doing this and you excel at it and here's the job or jobs at that connects to.

[00:26:50] Greg your danger say close too converting me to the leaving.

[00:26:59] I don't know.

[00:27:00] Okay.

[00:27:03] Okay.

[00:27:06] I'm more polite.

[00:27:11] Yeah, make me hit the play button people.

[00:27:15] So I have.

[00:27:18] I generally have a problem believing when organizations do good things like going to the community and do things I always feel again there's a business reason they're doing it now from my own experience it's been that way.

[00:27:35] With the exception of I was with enterprise run it are they completely are involved in.

[00:27:42] Love it connects the same way everything else not so much over my career.

[00:27:47] I get the feeling I feel genuinely that you are in the connects and the enterprise kind of round of company that want to be.

[00:27:58] Yeah, they really truly want to do something and in this story around.

[00:28:02] The awareness versus the skills gap is really fascinating to me because my oldest is 16 and she's in that in that area now saying right what do I want to do I'm starting to look at colleges.

[00:28:14] I don't know what I want to be I want to be in in criminal investigations or I want to be a lawyer I want to be just and it's she's picking those big titles right because that's what we know about.

[00:28:29] And she doesn't feel on a lot of things I feel like she feels there are others feel they don't have the skills to do all the other things are not glamorous enough to do that.

[00:28:40] So curries get your thoughts there how do we how does you're starting to explain how the south west.

[00:28:48] How do how to corporate organizations how do they what's the responsibility to help with that.

[00:28:54] Well it's funny you said because you know twice the summer I talked to kind of a high school group organization with lots of teachers and people that help and then I went to a little small conference.

[00:29:06] That that was a bunch of 50 60 associate deans and kind of the business schools of a lot of colleges and I opened both of them up with the same thing and like.

[00:29:18] Yeah, there's there's a lot of philanthropic of what you're hearing from me in this and what we wanted to do but don't mistake the selfishness of.

[00:29:28] I got to stand 10,000 people a year and they got to come from some points I'm a consumer so like don't don't mistake that it's just that it's like.

[00:29:40] And and at times I'm telling you we need to do better and so if I can help you if I can help be.

[00:29:46] I care for you for one right so that whatever age the kid begins to understand away what am I you know I can really be a pilot okay great well what do I what do I need to be good at right and then you they begin to understand that and so now there's a.

[00:30:03] The math becomes not just math math becomes the the means to an end that they might be very interested in it's very intent I.

[00:30:13] You know I remember the very first summer camp we did and we one of the sessions we had was the scheduling group and so this is really the folks that.

[00:30:23] No we're all the planes are and have to move them around and then as you can imagine.

[00:30:29] Whether or whatever and so you have to start thinking through all those things because the the the you know there may be bad weather and filly right and so we avoid but but there were people in filly that we're going to get on us and go one place and it and so how do you work all that and we they would do sessions and and they had.

[00:30:48] They were given a plane if you will and said okay you got to get it from here to here but here's your limitations to playing can't fly this many hours you've got to crew and all that and I remember talking to the kids as they come out as I quote us that like.

[00:31:02] And this one girl just look at me and she goes that was math and I said okay she goes and then she goes but it's the coolest math I've ever done and I'm like okay that's that's that's the that's the positive right is is where that kind of comes from so I think it's really I do think it's really important and I you know I do think that there's.

[00:31:54] really mass opportunity for.

[00:31:54] college college college college for everyone there's no other way through life through college or whatever and so you have literally a generation of folks that of students that don't understand that.

[00:32:06] or made or can't get through college don't like it and then they don't have anything else and you know what I like to tell them.

[00:32:17] You get out with dad what she's either worse they get out with dad and no directions I was I was talking to this whole school or this conference and it was.

[00:32:25] teachers high school teachers across the country and I said in a lot of them had you know.

[00:32:34] some lower income you know schools that they were representing and I said here's a deal.

[00:32:39] I can we can take 10 of your students said you give me one of them and that one student has to come work for me at Southwest when they graduate high school working on the ramp which is below the wing.

[00:32:54] and I said the minimum the one minimum requirement is they have to stay with us for five years.

[00:33:02] I said that person will out earn and I said you're other nine get to go to college I said my person will out earn seven of those nine and it was just like that because I was like well here's the thing they're going to get raised here's the healthcare here's the 401k here's all these things oh yeah I told you they had to stay with us for five years

[00:33:23] I didn't say they had to stay doing that job I have seven or eight vp's that started off throwing bags at the company right and so to your point that debt and all those things are all talk to engineers and it's like we need engineers and that's great.

[00:33:37] We also need mechanics and guess what at nineteen you can graduate with an AMP license and start doing that and I go I've got within five years.

[00:33:47] I think it's actually four you're making six figures as an AMP mechanic for an airline and then as it grows they'll all every mechanic for us will retire as a multi-millionaire right.

[00:34:00] If they just will and so then you get into what kind of life do you want to live right do you want to because guess what as they move along that pathway not only are they making really really good money and being well taking care of but now they have a schedule that if coaching their kids soccer team or whatever it is is really really important to them.

[00:34:23] They built it around that as well and I think that's just one of the things that that we miss in that process is to go is to understand the kid or under your case understand your daughter to go okay how are how is she wired and what's important to her and and and and

[00:34:41] I think through all of those things in the choice of what it is that she might want to be.

[00:34:48] All right, I got to ask about the agency within the within the last one because when you first I was going to but I was going to just load up then but I'm like I'll let a lot of brave we're getting towards the end of the show.

[00:35:03] I have to know how this works because I think this is the first time I've heard someone say they run it like that and first of all I think it's the right way to do it.

[00:35:13] I think just like we could stop there but I think it's probably some change management that had to go along with that to get people to stop thinking about kind of the historical way of corporate recruiting.

[00:35:24] Right, I think of it as a full service agency.

[00:35:29] So tell us a little just take us into that world.

[00:35:31] Yeah, no well it started out in one of my mid roles where I we were actually running the contingent program within Southwest right so I had this little team and we created it internally and then.

[00:35:48] Which in that at that time when we did this this as well over 10 years ago that was rare like that didn't happen it was always being.

[00:35:56] Vendor down by somebody that you know and a manded service provider that would do it and so when we started that you know I just kind of told the team at the time like here's who were competing against.

[00:36:06] And and I go so we have to act the same way and part of that is we're blessed because we are internal which means we have better information and we're getting this but we can't act entitled.

[00:36:20] That we're owed the wreck to work on or that we're owed this stuff we've got to we've got to earn this business and so at that time I said just like any other MSP that comes up for contract or renewal that's going to be our approach.

[00:36:34] But it was also but it is also to the agencies I was like I want to be because I come from that background I go I want to be whoever the recruiter is for the agencies that we're choosing business.

[00:36:45] I want their best recruiter to want to be on the southwest account because they get feedback in 24 hours.

[00:36:52] They all these clear things and that we're actually in place of them and and we're kind of startable you know those groups get paid based on how much money is running through their program right and how much all the billing and I.

[00:37:08] One of the times to a couple of the VPs are like well you know great why are you doing how's it different or whatever and I go hey.

[00:37:17] I get paid the same on the fifth and the 20th whether there's one dollar or 100 million dollars going through our program for me my best it's what's in the best it's sort of southwest and that might actually be me telling you that we need to increase our bill rates because this is a really hard group.

[00:37:36] And we want to make sure we're getting the best but I'm not doing it because it's going to make my commissions go up I get nothing from that right and so.

[00:37:45] That's where it started and then I just as I kept you know saying yes to opportunities and growing I just kept doing it and part of it is.

[00:37:54] You know just even in talking to peers.

[00:37:58] I do think corporate recruiting at times can get very there's just there can become an entitlement right because I don't have to go work for the wreck and so.

[00:38:10] And I just said man when you have to place people in order to like eat pay your rent those things you have you have a different hustle factor and.

[00:38:24] I think that's the kind of thing that I have now in the recruiter space spent a little bit of time in agency now my perfect is an agency corporate blend but if I had to choose one or the other.

[00:38:35] I would choose agency because there's just this inherent hustle this inherent.

[00:38:41] Well guess what you love the customer to sleep because we took so long you know versus hey you've got this house faster we present in candidates right how are we doing that how are we creating.

[00:38:53] That sense of urgency but what's cool then too is as a full service I could sit down if you're the hiring leader and go well you my here you need to get work done.

[00:39:04] We can go here's a different ways that we can go right here's here's data that I have on the market so let's talk about if it's going to be full time the level but I could also put a contingent person there either for this or maybe a temp to hire or you got a longer play what if we started getting you in terms.

[00:39:22] That we can ultimately convert and so just being able to do all of those things but also know oh wow right now we've got a really hard we've got a really hard to fill roll.

[00:39:35] That's normally done as an individual basis but the group is growing so much that I said we're going to take a volume hiring approach to it because we will never get you staff if we keep trying to do it one at a time and like everybody's like well you can't do that with you know and I'm like yeah you can it's just how you do it it's just it's just there's more at the top of the funnel and you just have a different approach and everyone's got to be in well.

[00:40:01] You know in a three week span we staffed more for them than what we did in the previous seven months type of deal and everyone's excited everyone's working hard and we're tweaking it but it's that kind of thing right and and it the biggest play for me will you was just on my own teams mentality that it's just like it's not about.

[00:40:21] Just filling a wreck right I tell any new hire that comes on my team you know here's what success will look in the recruiter space is I'm like I'm not interested.

[00:40:33] And how many reps you've filled or you know I kind of think I'm going to want to know how many relationships you build because that's what will be the key to your success on our team on your peers and your customer group or whatever if you do that.

[00:40:47] Not only the grace that you'll get because we will make mistakes and stuff will happen but but the insight that you'll get because they'll.

[00:40:56] They'll want you to be successful right and begin thinking that way and so I really love it and so then what it's allowed us to do is like oh well now I need a curimability because how do we help our internals and I have this right recruitment marketing can experience because yeah everybody can lose candidates through the process or how do you attract and so oh yeah well.

[00:41:16] You know I can you know back to the going to an elementary school I can go to an elementary school in the metroplex area and.

[00:41:29] And they say I'm you know hey great new show from southwest airlines is going to be here I promise you every single kid will think I'm either a pilot or a flight attendant they will not think that there's all these other roles and then to be really honest with you if.

[00:41:45] If it's if it is a economically disadvantaged they may not even because they've never flown before they may not even understand who we are and I mean I've done this there's an LMS closest elementary school to low field airport which is where our headquarters is in their Dallas airport and the planes fly over them all day.

[00:42:04] I've been to a third grade class in there and they literally did not know who we were and it's like you know that really loud sound when you're outside of recess and that thing that's that's you know what we do oh how that's cool.

[00:42:16] And so just all of those things are so important so that's what I say like we're really a full service and and what we say is it's.

[00:42:25] We know that.

[00:42:29] Or a vision if he will is that it's it is a business imperative that southwest airlines is staff both now and in the future and so that's what my team that's what our job is to do is to be making sure that happens.

[00:42:43] Drops the next score Ryan today.

[00:42:45] Oh my god.

[00:42:48] I'm a believer Greg.

[00:42:50] I'm a believer in southwest and you.

[00:42:54] I'm not going to go.

[00:42:54] I'm saying that it's great.

[00:42:56] Yeah.

[00:42:57] I don't understand.

[00:42:58] I can take it.

[00:42:59] We got two times to prove that to you this year.

[00:43:04] So we could we could have a second episode.

[00:43:08] Oh my god.

[00:43:09] Everything you just spoke about and even though that was that there's a ton of talk out there.

[00:43:13] Greg you do.

[00:43:14] I mean just you're doing great great work and thank you for coming on the show educating our audience because I love the approach.

[00:43:21] I just think it's a great way to keep the hustle in there because it's natural to get stale.

[00:43:31] Yeah, everybody got luxury vehicles, mortgages and all the stuff.

[00:43:35] So you can kind of just kind of become and get it by the.

[00:43:39] Well and I tell my team I'm you know I believe this for myself personally but for the team and you know you always try and get better and you know and I'm a big believer always kind of.

[00:43:51] I try to use sports analogies when I can you know, um, I don't think that I hire based on that on my own team but it does help a little bit that I don't have to think of something different to give them or whatever but I always talk about.

[00:44:04] And basal it's like you know what you can score run by hitting a home run.

[00:44:08] You can also do it by hitting four singles in a row and I think sometimes it really will lose sight.

[00:44:13] Oh yeah everyone's just trying to make a big move and would love to come back and talk to you because we are under that vein.

[00:44:19] We are sort of reinventing ourselves a little bit with what the market is and we're we're doing a big thing what I call is we're moving really heavy left of the rack and and we're also.

[00:44:31] Approaching we really kind of flip the script on the approach of our work so it today it's it's really a tutor centric if you will.

[00:44:41] Right and and and and they're still really important but it's like oh I've got all these really great tools now we need to think about when the work comes how can I absorb it and I want to be able to make sure.

[00:44:52] That we can scale up to the work without without just constantly adding head count or putting us in that jeopardy and I always tell people I might you know.

[00:45:02] Most companies including ourselves at time for the most part.

[00:45:05] You start your work when you get your wreck and I like no, no we're going to get to the point where the wreck is the beginning of the end the wreck is the is the activity that has to happen to get the person.

[00:45:19] On board that we've been talking to for however right they get you speed.

[00:45:25] Right speed quality it's like those people took the right there's no you know y'all know this from the space I'll joke and like I've been doing this between the agency and Southwest almost 27 years I'm like still waiting for a higher and later to your telling me slow down.

[00:45:42] Right I'm moving too fast or or.

[00:45:46] Yeah you're sending us too many good people could you go the bar on what you're sending like when that happens that may be my time to say it's over it's.

[00:45:56] Yeah armor get his on its way and I'm out here but until then how do we keep trying to make that better.

[00:46:03] I love it.

[00:46:05] Thank you so much for coming up and show spending time with us and spending time with our audience.

[00:46:09] We're going to a lot of fun thanks for having me.