SAP Sapphire 2024, AI/Joule, WalkMe, Move to Cloud and More

[00:00:01] Hi everyone welcome to the podcast today trying something a little different here using video in this platform Riverside. So having done this before but I do have a returning guest, Sharey and Maya, I share you Hey, happy to be here getting paid with us

[00:00:17] No, yeah, you're super collaborative and you know, within the experiment so I appreciate that for sure This one is going to be all about Sapphire so I'm going to rely on you, Sharey, I couldn't attend

[00:00:31] I was actually at a different event in San Francisco and so I wanted to be at Sapphire but I was reading all the announcements and following all that type of stuff so I'll provide my point of view of oh this is what I felt from the outside in

[00:00:44] but you know I'm going to rely on you to give us what it felt like to be there at the showroom floor in Orlando I'll give you the feeling as best as I can All right sounds good. I know there were some pretty big announcements going on

[00:00:57] I'm sure there was AI talk everywhere, right? I saw that there was the whole WalkMe acquisition Right, those pretty big deal I think 1.5 billion which you know these numbers are always just so high You were the one that invented that product

[00:01:16] X number here's out that they would buy So you know about that because it's always tough to look at these at the time of acquisition right Because people go back and look at you know at the time people might forget the success factors people were

[00:01:30] Oh, that's way such a high price or you can look at the Walter's acquisition And you know other outside the industry Salesforce has done acquisitions and you know at the time I think people are like well that's super super expensive for it

[00:01:42] But I think it depends on how it fits in in the sweet I guess from from your point of view what was it like being at Sapphire and you know that acquisition

[00:01:50] Announcement kind of came out in the middle if I'm not mistaken. What was that like was it feel like were the questions or your thoughts? I feel like some of the partnerships and acquisitions they did really were settled last minute But the offer was wonderful

[00:02:07] One of the cool things they did was the day which would usually be pre conference day the day before Usually I don't much is going on unless you go there for a pre conference or a partner showcase

[00:02:17] There's nothing going on they opened the show or from one to five And that was the best time for customers to walk through because there was no conflicting presentations or meetings So there were the partner discussions on the show four, which was interesting

[00:02:34] And mind you like this isn't the Safffire of Old right where every booth you stop at you got to give to get a pen or piece of candy Or the engine and the drawing there was not a very plain show force of people were actually walking around having

[00:02:49] You know very good honest discussions that was nice because that was a nice way to really set off the networking for the day

[00:02:56] So typically we would just all barge into the opening keynote and then I'll final out from there rush to the bathroom and then go to the next session right But I feel like people chance to network that first day

[00:03:10] Then the second day with the keynote and the announcements The keynote was great they've taken the approach over the last several years of not having everyone have to pack into one theater They had lots of things all over the show floor

[00:03:26] Really so much more was contained on the show floor, which was really set up nicely You could very easily see where the SAP products were and what they were and how they've brewed But the theaters were mostly all around the outside of that

[00:03:40] Just walking to one theater to another Yeah, it wasn't so isolated like a theater in this is the BTP area, so this is the BTP theater. It wasn't quite that way Lots of customer stories about cloud public cloud Very interesting yeah

[00:04:00] But the announcement's like walk me and mentioned walk me that was really interesting to me because I remember looking at that as a customer And thinking this is years ago. This is really cool right because what customers want most is just in time help

[00:04:15] They don't do these transactions all the time we had a ESS and MSS as early adopters years ago And you put a manager and say change the position, put change person's position They don't know what they're doing they hardly ever do that You never do that

[00:04:30] That helped real time next to you on the screen I thought was really cool So that was their sweet spot then but if you think about it now with them taking AI forward First of all, they can have so much more help and so much more cross references

[00:04:44] But they can also attach jewel onto that Now I don't know what SAP's plans are for walk me But I could just envision you're sitting there at your desk and you can virtually ask for anything you want I'm stuck

[00:04:59] I'm on this field and I'm stuck. How do I do this? And that as walk me would have been there to help me with some words that I had to read and plow through I would get an answer That's what the helping it is

[00:05:12] I'm helping it really is just in time help like that So I think that's a good fit I don't know if you look at enterprise software If you look at the full SAP state of course you have the success doctor you may roll

[00:05:25] It's complicated, right? The business processes are complicated And it's not just some small consumer activity where I'm just ordering food and that's three buttons I'm done, hiring someone Even Microsoft Teams complicated today, right? Yeah, it is

[00:05:40] More we have public cloud products, the more they're changing all the time Sometimes what you did yesterday just as a work today So to have that real time help I think is that's pretty untarget

[00:05:53] Yeah, I think the AI stuff is cool and we're going to talk about that We're going to talk about jewelry and talk about the adoption But I think different people and organizations will be at different points in that journey And I think that's why the success doctor strategy

[00:06:07] Where you have different possibilities to interact with system depending on what you're doing So you have like teams integration Or I can do things like you know, block out or block out on teams But you know, submit feedback and teams which you also have a jewel Right?

[00:06:25] Merak and interact with things that way And so like if you've been in HR for 30 years unless you're just innovative Thinker and you've been using a system and a desktop for a long time And using your phone is a very difficult thing to ask of some people

[00:06:39] I think we've all been there In fact, even me I prefer to use my desktop in many ways So I think there's always a proper there So I think with that just in time help You know, I think it could definitely be useful

[00:06:51] So it'll be interesting to see how kind of the rest is in changes for sure Yeah, I think it's going to be rapid. I really do I think we've seen a lot of progress over the last year with jewel kicked off for success factors really

[00:07:06] And I thought it was really Really an amazing accomplishment for that And could see so many use cases for it But now it's totally expanding to the rest of the platform And in fact that SAP will give you some AI and that it with

[00:07:19] The software is really, really cool I think so with jewel and teams And walk me and things like that If you think about it like all these tools are really cool But what was always irritating was like having a jump to another screen

[00:07:36] Or another part another map to get that information Right? What their intent seems to be Is comes to fruition that's cool If things could be more integrated so on in my team And I can ask my team how do I do this and it opens up

[00:07:54] The SAP Transaction We've gone way beyond having to think about transactions Then right Transaction codes, you know I still got them ingrained back here So remember, I'm going to spin them up that way But here I get your time coming in Yeah, I'll tell that

[00:08:14] But now it'll be interesting to see the progression of that And you're right It's I think it becomes really valuable When it's cross products and cross sweet Right? Because what if you said If I'm managing people I might only hire one person in a year

[00:08:29] Something like that right? Very empirically And how often do you go and update your address You know like HR is not something that you're doing every single day For most people who are on the HR team Right? And so yes, it's awesome It's great functionality and success factors

[00:08:46] Absolutely led the way But now how can I do other things? I'm a financial controller How can I do aspects of my job there and have the same user experience So I did see you know when I was reading some of the announcements On the outside looking in

[00:09:01] About some of the new AI capabilities Right? You look at the first half release I think they said there was 25 new AI capabilities Which you know I have to say this is definitely a time where I feel like Just looking at it and success factors

[00:09:15] This is ahead of the competition Right? I think that was really first ones to kind of talk about this And and release it into production And it's cool to see So is that what you heard all over the Sherroon floor

[00:09:28] Was that in all the demos and the keynotes You know what was that? I was talking about that I mean, I could walk through the show floor without talking about AI And surprise Which I don't think that was surprising

[00:09:41] I think most of us would have expected that right I think the story That we have to tell about business AI is still a little bit weak Because yeah, there are 25 or however many applications that they're rolling out

[00:09:54] But they're not really new. We really don't have the use cases to talk about I have heard nothing. I don't know faith that they're going to come to fruition They will But right now like there what you'd like to hear case studies How things really work

[00:10:08] Like it's nice to know that it can work But how did it really work and how did companies apply it? That's the big thing And we are talking about going from one system to another If Joel can help manage your entire platform What an amazing user experience

[00:10:27] That was always the problem that I was tackling Was the user experience It's a thing You know, trying to figure out where to navigate What if you could ask in natural language and be taken through To the right System whether it's finance or HR or purchasing

[00:10:43] Or concur for travel That's cool Right It is In some ways I think you're right I think jewels also But Me personally I'm actually more Instit in some ways In the generative AI parts of this So you know that use cases where

[00:11:04] I'm an employee filling out my performance review And I know the button can help me draft that stuff Right That stuff that exists today So I'm really interested Because I think that has some really cool use cases Or some creating a requisition

[00:11:17] And it can help me do it based upon something I can imagine Just sit there and write a job description That is the most painful thing Aside from your appraisal That's the most painful thing to do in HR Have you used The Gen Chive AI

[00:11:33] And the HR applications like that Yeah, I played around with it I really like it I know there's some actually click through demos that they also have To me like yeah jewel is cool But this is like this is my use case of I can use this

[00:11:46] I can show this and this is going to help me today So depending upon who you are You know some people will absolutely love working with Chatting in your face Other people's probably Our years away from that if ever Right I think I'm a little bit suspicious

[00:12:03] About the data where it's coming from What's right, what's wrong But I still use it because Even and I think this is a smart way to use it You have to be a critical thinker You have to look at what it's giving you

[00:12:15] And not just copy and paste So I will use it to do someone's performance Praisely to get started But then I'll try to make sure that I elaborate upon that person Right What was good about that person That's you can't replace that human element today Yeah

[00:12:33] I don't know I don't know Knowing the person This is really important I think the good news with that part is At least the way success factors is implemented It makes it pretty clear right I'm going to tell you that this is AI-generated

[00:12:47] And then it allows you to say Okay, let me elaborate on this more Let me do this And I think it always Or at least from what I've seen of the use cases It's always we are generating text for you But then the user has to do something

[00:13:01] So it's not like I'm just behind the scene Creating 20 job description No, it's like I'm creating this for you And then you have to approve it Or change it or add to it Or in the case of a forms for you Like personalize it

[00:13:15] And how you have a conversation I am talking to Sherry as a person And yes, this actually gives me a great job Give me a head start And as a matter of fact That's what I use AI for in my non-work life too Right

[00:13:27] So I use Gemini within Gmail So when I'm yesterday I had a draft a letter to a homeowner association So I use Gemini and say hey Drap me this letter to the HOA saying Love a little blah And then I press that And it gave me 95%

[00:13:44] And then I added like a couple things And then I set it on the slate Right So those are the ones that I think Could you as a vendor So SAP in this case Has to put it in a place Where it built into that process

[00:13:59] That you're already doing So I'm doing my performance review Or I'm filling out a requisition Cool It's right there And I think they've done that right I have it in the application right there Press button It does it I can change it I can add it

[00:14:15] It feels very much And I think this is the first time I can remember Saying this That the use cases here are pretty similar to what we're seeing in the real world Right So the business AI With the consumer AI Like with Google and in Gemini

[00:14:31] That's not that far off And usually you see things progress a lot faster And it's kind of an unusual share What's interesting is that HR is always so cautious and protective about its data And anything that we'll tell you to use

[00:14:45] And I feel very confident that SAP as a company Is the same in general I feel like they wouldn't Yeah, there's a lot of small companies are rolling out really cool things Really rapidly But I feel like it doesn't go out the SAP door

[00:14:59] Unless it's been thoroughly dotted And they're pretty responsible about that So they have to be right there They're two hundred people They're a smart cat But what you're right I think it's scary for me Because I've actually played around with AI And I've done stuff

[00:15:16] And it's very easy to just work with OpenAI ChadGPT Connect a API to it And then get a layer of GenAI And I've seen some hilarious use cases I've seen I think a car manufacturer Let's say someone who sells like four vehicles

[00:15:34] They attach a tent to PP thing And then I just saw someone joking around And it was asking non-car related questions How do I do Bob of OpenBlood And pick up like it It is like answering the question about like some technical Wolk or something like that

[00:15:49] Not related to the use kit And so I think the scary thing is if you're working with a vendor Who doesn't do that Doesn't put the business in the business AI Because anyway we can add it Then layer of generative AI By using KSTPT

[00:16:07] But the problem with that then You data goes into the model I think what the first thoughtable And that took us a whole different conversation But you know, at least being responsible for the data privacy SAP is also a European company So European companies have a lot more

[00:16:24] And the European GDPR and things like that That you're cautious that that data is not going into a broader model Right? That's one of the scary things I think we could see in the upcoming years You know, scary is the thought of I don't know

[00:16:39] At big companies with a lot of privacy In terms might be loading things into a child In the public domain Without it being obvious It's not like it's in a Google search But it's in a data model But theoretically someone could ask a question

[00:16:53] How does XYZ build a lot And it could spit back You know, an answer Using their actual data That's terrifying That's what you want to avoid Anyways, I digress You know, every time we talk about this I talk about this with someone

[00:17:07] I'm reminded of the first Jurassic Park movie Where the computer tech Sabotage the system And Sabotage the whole park And I just keep saying like someone like him Sitting there feeding in bad data Purpice It's like a funny system I mean it could happen

[00:17:26] That's where the protocol thinking comes in And that's where I think we're also developing apps That check to see if you use Gen AI You know, I know schoolers And that to see did you use Gen AI right this paper Yeah Yeah, that's the whole different

[00:17:42] A whole different time than anything else It's true It's true that what we did using Google Right and looking things up You remember using the go they used to say Oh, Wikipedia is not a criteria It's global source You can't sight it I don't know that sight

[00:17:57] Yeah, and now it's a super credible source Because it is a correct And so that same thing is going to happen With the data that AI is using Yeah It's just so cute Smartly I think what the SAP is doing Holds the best possibility ever

[00:18:16] For an enhanced user experience Simplifying things and really getting Work out of the hands of the operational people Yep, it'll be interesting to say Progressive So back to the Sapphire What were some other things? Anything else from like a main Showroom floor keynoten announcements Or if not

[00:18:37] We're some of the other interesting sessions Did you mind if I'm gone to Well, I'll tell you what my AOSI overall put everything Together that I heard because I was like Hmm, I expected to hear about AI I expected there to be announced What did I really learn?

[00:18:53] I learned that SAP is not a standalone company At all anymore And we saw it heading in that direction But partnerships definitely form the basis of its success So the announcements weren't like all about acquisitions It was about the thing With other very talented companies like Nvidia, Apple

[00:19:14] Amazon, you know, Microsoft To deliver the best product possible to the end user That's a very interesting economic Partnership model right? I mean, that's something companies didn't do in the past Like you didn't do partnerships like that And HR is interesting HR is not a standalone process

[00:19:38] That's also be very obvious Nobody is out there selling just HR at Sapphire Or focusing on that There wasn't It wasn't a lot of talk about any of the There are components really like that like Compare or Aureba But more talk about the holistic system and how things

[00:19:57] Off it together Like there is one ERP But it's modular You're saying you get to the modules That part I don't think is really clear yet Is how you get to that Bringing the modules together to one ERP But it is definitely a vision that they're working on

[00:20:13] And then the other thing is having come from HR Was if there's things we have to share data We're going to realize success in any of this And in HR and payroll, we always like, oh no Don't touch my data

[00:20:26] Yeah, clear that there's going to have to be greater sharing of data The Nvidia thing Partnership I thought was really interesting I really liked that conversation And if you saw they did it virtually That's the Ebb and all Yeah, he was remote And they did it Beginning

[00:20:48] Is there a record? No, live This is going to work And at some point like midway through when they switched from Their Congress Christian Klein's conversation With him to a video on the stage and a discussion on stage And they switched back They did lose him

[00:21:06] He must have been there anymore But they just kept going But that was a no minor achievement Right? I thought he was really interesting Talking about everything they do Because I had no idea I had no idea I had no idea about Nvidia It was in the background

[00:21:22] Really? Yeah, I really didn't pay attention to what they were doing I think it's a pretty cool company And what they're going to do Between that And other things that are going on with SAP It's going to be so much easier to program these systems

[00:21:38] And faster, which is interesting The other things that were not on stage And as I said, but I mean, talked about in stage But massively crowded on the show floor We're a signal bio and lean I x Which you know

[00:21:52] If you know like they're really about process management It's kind of like a threat or a threat Generation solution manager for those of us who knew about that I don't know But people are really really interested in the possibilities of those two things

[00:22:05] And I think part of it is because now we're not just sitting down mapping out our processes anymore We actually have tools that can map them for us Yeah, I wonder how Walk me might fit into that too Because I'm not clear on how that fits with

[00:22:21] Signabio right signal bio with the process You know show some of that stuff but It's good to be interesting It'd be interesting for sure A big escape and technology And when we first implemented SAP ERP The whole goal was to just

[00:22:33] Get one platform, get your data in one platform And we get all this data And then it was like how do we get it out Can we get us more help? I don't know, just real time data And it's like a miracle right

[00:22:46] And now we're on to even bigger things To be able to actually extract that data real time And use it And decision making and calculations real time And feed it back When it starts with a clean core right Wasn't that a emphasis then you hear that word

[00:23:01] That word that word That word is just also interesting because You know that's just to the page I was success factor of this book right Yeah, no we'd be talking about that long time That's not a lot I had to be clean We didn't call it clean core

[00:23:15] The words we used but I had to be implement plain vanilla And whatever the words were that we used to And they've taken a page right out of that book It's absolutely true But the secret sauce today is BTP Now success factors had some of that

[00:23:31] Not calling it BTP But you could do extensions with success factors I don't know People know about You could do that And you could do some minor changes BTP is just That is the hope for the future Because why would SAP become an expert in everything

[00:23:48] In every single industry They've got to prioritize it You can't You can't Right You just can't I mean that's why also back to your earlier point of Where partners play right so you can build a beautiful Courage our system and have a clean core and clean Data

[00:24:06] But then if you're going and selling into an industry If I'm going into You know a retail or hospitality They're very specific requirements Especially if you look at Time as one use case Right They are heavy emphasis on like scheduling Right

[00:24:21] So you can't build for that and manufacturing in that So that's why these partnerships Have to have a possibility where you know You have let's say employees central for this But then I can go to this vendor for Retail Time scheduling Right

[00:24:39] And then still be easy to get Very easily Yes Yeah So at the end of the year You have to have that data being able to come out Sharing that in some cases with partners Obviously do it in a modern way With you know APIs and good integration

[00:24:54] And whatnot But that is a key to success And you see that with vendors outside of SAP too Right You see more and more talking about their After And I do And I do that And you know that's Definitely a Difference from From past years for sure

[00:25:11] I think SAP's kind of been on that On that boat for a little longer Than others Which is starting to see I do remember even You know when I was at SAP That was kind of And I think the last year maybe in the magic quadrant

[00:25:27] They were looking more at App stores partners and not just to coordinate Builds of that because When you're in HR buyer that does matter Right Am I going to this vendor then just you know I salated Or when I have a need for XYZ

[00:25:43] Do I have a solution that I can buy You know I guess is nice to be able to buy From the same vendor But outside of that Is it going to be integrated Or do some of your things To use cases

[00:25:54] You know I touch one of my friends Who's at makeshift Timekeeping company schedule and company That is the biggest one of the biggest areas for companies To watch their labor costs And see how they we always manage labor cost As oh we have too much head count

[00:26:09] Let's reduce head count Right But if you really manage people's schedules and the work hours In plant scenarios or hospitals You know Yeah exactly that's very niche Yeah it's very very niche What SAP would never be able to I've been they could spend the time Can that but

[00:26:28] Turn value wouldn't be there For them to partner someone like makeshift Is really important because That's all they have for sure To point into And the interesting thing is They're not just talking to HR people They're talking to the business people

[00:26:42] So it's not time and payroll in HR It's time and business Right I think that's what those kind of scenarios Hold a lot of hope for business for the future too For sure Yeah I guess it all starts with a clean core Right Yeah Awesome Poor

[00:26:59] Yeah and people have had success with that I listened to a lot of good stories on the show For I think I mentioned to you In the ASA corner You always hear I will say you always hear a lot more direct stories

[00:27:13] In the ASA theaters than you do on the SAP theaters That's a huge pleasure And those other theaters you get Very honest, very talented people But they're primarily The executives And they tell a ten-minute success story Right And they don't really Deep drill into

[00:27:33] What they learned about how to optimize SAP Of course They're good stories But in the ASA sessions There was very frank conversations Yes You should be moving off of ACC Why are you still on it That as you move there are different ways to move You know

[00:27:51] Don't let SAP tell you you have to pick up everything And move we talk to anything If the company was jable They said they mapped out their systems And then they mapped out their processes And they decided what they would move first

[00:28:07] So it made it more affordable for them And also, you know, quicker They could move quicker They could leave other components where they were And then just integrate the data later That was an interesting approach And those are the kind of stories you hear from the ASA team

[00:28:25] They also had a really good Women can accession in the ASA Both which was really nice Lots of women showed up for that That was a big idea I think that's a picture of that Yeah Was it just like a small thing For like 30 minutes

[00:28:39] Or what was that background? Was it in the main of the conference? It was a great funness to an hour And they really did This is where the event gets really valuable Because it was a great networking opportunity Because they did something to encourage Conversation and networking

[00:28:55] And pick somebody else and talk to them about this Then let's forget all that together And then that's how we met people in the old days And I said, I think I said to you that I really missed the ASA sessions

[00:29:08] That we had by special interest for you Because you have HCM Like two or three rooms in one corner And you came out of sessions All the HCM people could see each other And networked together And it was a little community home

[00:29:24] But I think I said did a really good job With the booth downstairs I just love the city, the ASA To talk more about the individual products In the future Yeah for sure I mean you worked on those ASA things too I was a volunteer back then

[00:29:39] You were leading the show I mean that was an amazing conference You're right I think a lot of the value was That you speak away from the keynotes To be breakout sessions And now you get to the practitioners Who are actually there in the weeds and the details

[00:29:58] And then the value of being able to hear What went well But also what were the challenges How you overcame them Because you're our peer talking about your success But not everything happens Over night Or super easily And everything else I think

[00:30:15] Also there were a lot more developers With on premise Where I don't know the numbers And I'm just guessing I think there were a lot of developers HCM practitioners and HCM users And all those sessions We learned a lot about the whole process end to end

[00:30:34] In those sessions And today I don't think there's this main developers So when you go to the experience on the show floor I don't think there really developers That are attending those I think it's more decision-makers That's what they're after I feel like that change

[00:30:51] It's kind of post-COVID So like free COVID I mean, Zephyr was a much bigger show I've heard numbers all over the place But in some cases, I don't know 30 or 40,000 people I've heard now this is This is the biggest Sapphire After COVID But still I don't know Maybe 10,000

[00:31:09] There's something like that I think that was number I heard I heard all different numbers And I'm not sure what's true Some of the numbers are Who always there What's based we take up with the partners And then really come any customers Where they do strictly limit attendance

[00:31:24] They do I was going to introduce you that the evolution of that Because you're right That used to be more of a heavy emphasis on IT for sure Right And then as a part of that The developers But that's also an evolution of space

[00:31:38] I'm going to show people A little way from having to do About development in six projects About development to cloud native products Which kind of brings me to the last point I mean, is What was the feel and thought about moving to the cloud Because that's a conversation

[00:31:57] I'm still hearing a lot Just because you have 20, 27 coming up soon I decided to make this 20, 30 So what was you mentioned in a little bit When you earlier commented What was the feel from talking to others Conversational that? Much more enthusiasm for cloud Especially in private or public

[00:32:17] But I mean surprisingly to me Much more trust in the public cloud these days And you know people don't manage your CIOs Of course, who we were talking to Don't really want to have the infrastructure costs And worries under their thoughts anymore

[00:32:34] One of the presentations that we did for rising in Whipbro Was in Bepda which was a spin-off of Bepda in Dickinson And they We went out and said like we wanted to focus on our core product Which was to make the lives of people living with diabetes better

[00:32:50] And so we focused on a clean core Bepda system And a lot their whole structure The whole design from the outset Was to have external providers providing services And different pieces of the system support Which is a very, very different thought process

[00:33:11] Then what we had even 10 years ago I would say I'm sorry I was a good one I was a good one Yeah, right That was definitely different for sure All right, well I think we're running up on time I enjoyed this conversation very much

[00:33:29] I think it'll be useful for others too So just to hear what it was like there You always feel a little bit you know You can see the messages on LinkedIn and see the pictures What is different to be there So I appreciate you joining me

[00:33:41] I just wanted to see fellow colleagues and connect with people again And I know I miss it I miss it I always cherish those a little more I think I didn't appreciate it I know pre-bendemic I've been playing about Haven't we got a Vegas or something

[00:33:55] Or you know Orlando or whatever the case But now you know you won't hear it from Can play from me I don't have to go somewhere Okay, good. I hope I see you I don't think we'll be careful I'm going there A little too far. Yeah, I don't

[00:34:11] Well, let's see though maybe maybe Maybe you don't change your mind I'm not sure if thank you very much Appreciate it