Can we keep growing without leading people? (Episode 26)

[00:00:00] So let me ask you, do you think some people avoid it not just because it's tough but because

[00:00:05] it they don't want the responsibility or the mental.

[00:00:10] Yeah.

[00:00:11] The weight that comes with it.

[00:00:12] Yeah.

[00:00:13] Heavy is the crown.

[00:00:15] Heavy is the crown and your castle could be a four people team, but it's tough.

[00:00:22] Welcome back folks.

[00:00:24] This is episode 26.

[00:00:26] It's about your paycheck.

[00:00:28] Today we're asking can you lead without leading people?

[00:00:33] Can you grow in your career without leading people before we get into that?

[00:00:38] How are you doing today Walt?

[00:00:40] Man, that's a good topic man.

[00:00:42] I love that you came out with that one.

[00:00:44] I'm good.

[00:00:45] It's another happy Sunday man.

[00:00:47] Happy to be here.

[00:00:48] How about yourself man?

[00:00:50] Likewise man.

[00:00:51] Likewise busy weekend, busy but it's just good.

[00:00:54] Finding a new balancing act of it all and just working it'll get there.

[00:00:58] I'm really glad about the next few Sundays.

[00:01:01] We're going to take some time off and trying to just get organized.

[00:01:04] Don't worry folks, we're still putting out content.

[00:01:07] We'll still have stuff.

[00:01:08] We got stuff in the vaults that we're going to share some lost tapes and things like

[00:01:11] that haven't been put out yet.

[00:01:13] So it gives us a great opportunity to just me and Walt need to reset and get our

[00:01:18] life together.

[00:01:20] I don't remember the acronym you.

[00:01:22] I thought about you when I read it and you know how we always say we need to get our

[00:01:25] ish together, SHIT together right?

[00:01:28] Somebody broke it down.

[00:01:29] S was like strategy, H was something.

[00:01:32] I was like oh man, thinking about Walt.

[00:01:36] Walt loves some acronyms.

[00:01:38] That's what I do.

[00:01:40] So let's jump right into it.

[00:01:42] We got some cool pay news today to share folks and Walt's going to start us off.

[00:01:47] Yeah.

[00:01:48] Excuse me, bro.

[00:01:50] I'm sorry man.

[00:01:52] You OK?

[00:01:53] Nah, I'm feeling a little sick which reminds me crap man.

[00:01:57] I need to put in my my sick time.

[00:01:59] Oh, what system do you use?

[00:02:02] Oh, TimeTrak Go.

[00:02:04] The simply better employee time clock software that is going to make your life easier.

[00:02:11] I don't know if you know man, but it already has a unique graphical employee time

[00:02:16] card and it's awesome because it helps you quickly identify and fix the mistakes.

[00:02:21] That's right.

[00:02:22] Now that you say that they just announced the addition of automatic PTO accrual earnings.

[00:02:26] So you can say goodbye to those manual calculations.

[00:02:29] TimeTrak Go's new automatic PTO accrual feature takes the hassle out of tracking those earned

[00:02:35] in accrued times, assuring accuracy and consistency for both employees and HR teams.

[00:02:43] That's golden.

[00:02:44] That's awesome.

[00:02:45] You know what?

[00:02:46] That's right.

[00:02:47] I remember that.

[00:02:48] I read that you can choose from various rules like yearly, monthly, pay period, hourly

[00:02:56] and hourly percentage to seamlessly align with your company's policies.

[00:03:02] It includes new state sick leave.

[00:03:04] Awesome because I'm not feeling that that's going to help.

[00:03:08] And you can do vacation hours that automatically increase with length of service.

[00:03:14] Man, like how could someone find out what a simply better solution could do for their business?

[00:03:19] Oh, to learn more.

[00:03:21] They're always doing a 14 day free trial.

[00:03:25] Someone should go to their website at www.TimeTrakGo.com.

[00:03:32] That's T-I-M-E-T-R-A-K-Go.com.

[00:03:39] Or if they want to call, the number is 888-321-9922.

[00:03:47] Let's go.

[00:03:48] Let's go.

[00:03:49] So my article is from Yahoo.com and it's a news article.

[00:03:55] And so there's 11 legendary ways that employees have left their jobs.

[00:04:00] I'm not going to go through them all.

[00:04:02] I'm just going to go through the five that I like.

[00:04:04] So the article link will be in the show notes.

[00:04:08] So yes, the first one is somebody quit their job.

[00:04:12] A Twitter employee quit their job by trolling the president.

[00:04:16] So former President Donald Trump, they deactivated Donald Trump's Twitter account.

[00:04:22] So even though it was only down for 11 minutes, they just decided to do it themselves.

[00:04:26] And so when Twitter found out or ex found out, they let go of the employee after doing

[00:04:33] that investigation because it was unprompted.

[00:04:36] Like the employee did it without being told to do it.

[00:04:39] So that was one.

[00:04:41] There was another one where someone sent a cake to his job to start his, because he wanted

[00:04:49] to start his own baking business.

[00:04:52] So why not bake a cake and say, Hey, here's my resignation in the form of a cake or

[00:04:57] a resignation letter in the form of a cake?

[00:05:00] Yes.

[00:05:02] Yeah, so he said it to his baker now.

[00:05:05] I hope so.

[00:05:06] Another dude, another manager quit his job by at a fast food restaurant by performing ice

[00:05:13] ice baby with the I quit shirt on top of the counter.

[00:05:17] Yes.

[00:05:20] Then another one, another situation happened at Chipotle in State College,

[00:05:24] Pennsylvania, where the entire staff quit and they put a note on the door saying that

[00:05:33] Hey, ask our corporate offices why employees are forced to work in borderline sweatshop

[00:05:39] conditions and stuff like that.

[00:05:41] They left it on the door and then they just nobody worked.

[00:05:44] So it's pretty interesting.

[00:05:45] There's some other stuff on here, a lot of fun stuff on here and everything.

[00:05:50] That's a good one.

[00:05:52] Yeah.

[00:05:52] And then the last one I liked was this former Taco Bell employee in 2011.

[00:05:58] This employee, sometimes they have the signs out where you put the letters on and

[00:06:02] so different words like coming to this one special.

[00:06:06] Yes, like something like that little lit up signs with the little letters you can

[00:06:10] remove, you can always change them out.

[00:06:12] Oh, yes, but fast food places.

[00:06:13] Yeah, got it.

[00:06:13] Yes.

[00:06:14] So he put I quit.

[00:06:17] I quit Adam, which is a manager's name and he put FU.

[00:06:21] Oh, dang.

[00:06:23] Yeah.

[00:06:25] That's hilarious.

[00:06:27] Yeah, just check that out.

[00:06:28] Yeah, I want to see the other ones now.

[00:06:30] Yeah.

[00:06:32] Check that in the show notes, folks.

[00:06:34] Got some thinking about segue into why some folks are living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:06:41] Because you quit in your jobs in a legendary fashion.

[00:06:44] No, it's no connection.

[00:06:45] It's just we've been talking about this so much right?

[00:06:49] What again, the new stats on it are 80% of the US population are now living

[00:06:54] paycheck to paycheck.

[00:06:56] Yeah, like you said, 70 and then 10%.

[00:07:00] Yep.

[00:07:01] Okay, I think the number 78, like to be exact in the survey, but still closer

[00:07:07] to 80 than not.

[00:07:08] And it's like you said, and how you articulated it, if you're

[00:07:11] standing in a room with 10 people, eight of those folks are living paycheck to

[00:07:15] paycheck, to give folks an easy visual and check out.

[00:07:19] I don't think it's the last episode of the one before that.

[00:07:21] We really talked about that a little bit more and we defined what paycheck

[00:07:26] to paycheck is and things like that.

[00:07:28] So this article is highlighting based on how much you make where you fall.

[00:07:35] And what was shocking is that a third of folks that make 200K or more, a

[00:07:42] third of them are living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:07:45] That's crazy.

[00:07:46] Yes.

[00:07:47] If for again, for ease of understanding, how we'll put it for us, right?

[00:07:51] A third is would be one in three people, right?

[00:07:53] Yeah.

[00:07:53] Third one third.

[00:07:55] And let me make sure.

[00:07:56] Yeah.

[00:07:56] A third of those earning 200K live paycheck to paycheck.

[00:08:00] And then if we use the same example, sorry to cut you off.

[00:08:03] Yeah.

[00:08:05] Out of 10 people that would be three out of 10 people.

[00:08:08] Oh, a third.

[00:08:09] Yeah.

[00:08:10] See, 10 people making 200K, three of them are living paycheck to paycheck.

[00:08:14] And there's this article breaks down different categories between if you

[00:08:17] make less than 50K, if you make 500 and 100, between a 550 and 100K more, 100

[00:08:23] to 200 and then over 200 or 200 and more rather.

[00:08:28] And then what it does is what I like real quick is the last thing.

[00:08:31] And then we move on is that it breaks down the wise out of eight categories.

[00:08:35] The top four are insufficient income, a large amount of debt.

[00:08:42] And paying for family members and then non-essential spending.

[00:08:47] Large amount of debt you can control and non-essential spending you can control.

[00:08:52] Living, paying for family members could control twos in some respects.

[00:08:56] Go ahead.

[00:08:56] What's up?

[00:08:57] Were those ranked?

[00:08:59] The way you read them out or those like and say, OK, this is the number one reason.

[00:09:04] No, the number one reason was large amount of debt.

[00:09:08] Okay, OK.

[00:09:09] OK, OK. Yeah.

[00:09:10] I just gave the top four out of the eight categories.

[00:09:13] Yeah. OK.

[00:09:14] Wow. Large amount of debt and paying for family members pretty much the top two

[00:09:20] and then insufficient income and non-essential spending.

[00:09:24] So look, so see that there's other people are struggling

[00:09:28] and those people that make 200K or more like some of them

[00:09:32] have big hearts and scenes and they're paying and they're helping

[00:09:36] their members who are also struggling to live in paycheck to paycheck.

[00:09:39] And that's putting them in that same category.

[00:09:42] Yep. Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:44] Because exactly a lot of us, you said it, we want to help family.

[00:09:48] Think about a lot of US folks that have family overseas, like back in their home

[00:09:53] countries, they probably send them bread bag.

[00:09:55] That's very common.

[00:09:57] Why is whatever.

[00:09:58] Yeah. And I've seen that.

[00:10:01] I've seen that become a sticking point in relationships where folks are

[00:10:04] like, I have to send X amount of money back to my family and like, why?

[00:10:08] What do you mean?

[00:10:09] And I'm just being planned that was advocate.

[00:10:11] I know why, but that's tough because somebody from the US and their families

[00:10:14] been in the US don't have any family in the old country, so to speak.

[00:10:18] They may not understand that and connect to that.

[00:10:20] And they're like, what do you mean?

[00:10:21] We send money back to the country.

[00:10:22] Tell them to get their butt over here again.

[00:10:24] It causes the issues.

[00:10:26] But a large amount of debt is the one that's stuck out to me

[00:10:30] because it's such an easier.

[00:10:32] No, I'm sorry. It's a controllable variable.

[00:10:35] It's a variable you can overcome with intent, with intention.

[00:10:40] If you're proactive about it and I think a lot of us we manage.

[00:10:44] We learn that debt is a tool.

[00:10:46] You talk to if you read like rich dad, poor dad ideology, he leverages debt.

[00:10:51] And if you don't know how to leverage that, you just get stuck with debt.

[00:10:55] Right? The rich are leveraging debt to make money.

[00:10:59] They go buy another home and rent that home out.

[00:11:02] They're buying leasing buildings because they're rent.

[00:11:05] They're subletting the rest of the building exponentially off to other companies.

[00:11:10] Like like we said about recently, actually, I was it was saying it

[00:11:14] on a podcast that I was a whole guest on.

[00:11:17] I'm like, I'm a host of this one.

[00:11:18] I'm not used to being a guest.

[00:11:20] And we got into talking about rich, poor, medium class and middle class,

[00:11:27] rather, and the rich, their ideology, the way they look at money

[00:11:31] is to send one the way I saw the post.

[00:11:33] And I'm sure we shared it, one of us shared it between each other

[00:11:37] about how the rich put money as soldiers going out to make more money.

[00:11:42] Every dollar is a soldier that I'm sending to war to make more money for myself.

[00:11:46] You know what I mean?

[00:11:47] Whereas middle class looks at it like it's leveraging debt

[00:11:50] and poor just look at money as to pay bills.

[00:11:53] We've got to work hard, pay bills, work hard, pay bills.

[00:11:56] Right. It's these ideologies that get us stuck in those buckets.

[00:12:00] So more to come on that as we keep talking about these subjects and things like that.

[00:12:05] But yeah, man, this is just stuck out to me like, wow, dang,

[00:12:09] it's agnostic of their income.

[00:12:11] Right? It doesn't matter how much you make.

[00:12:13] You could live paycheck to paycheck.

[00:12:14] I've seen broke millionaires like I've known broke millionaires

[00:12:17] like paycheck to paycheck and their millionaires.

[00:12:19] But it's tough.

[00:12:20] Yeah, it's we got to have a healthier relationship with money

[00:12:23] and finance and financial wellness.

[00:12:26] It's got to really be front of mind,

[00:12:29] especially if we want to have some breaded retirement.

[00:12:32] Right? We want money every time.

[00:12:33] Yes. That's a saying.

[00:12:35] Right. The retirement age has increased.

[00:12:38] Yeah, it keeps increasing.

[00:12:39] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:12:41] And it's because of that.

[00:12:42] They said I read another something that said you have to save a million

[00:12:46] dollars, no, 10 times your salary by the time you're 67.

[00:12:51] And that's even late.

[00:12:52] I don't want to retire earlier than that, man.

[00:12:55] That's late to start.

[00:12:57] Oh, my here's my retirement now.

[00:12:58] That's like a second phase of retirement for me anyway.

[00:13:02] Yeah.

[00:13:03] Anywho, let's get into it.

[00:13:04] We're talking about can you lead without leading people?

[00:13:08] And as we grow in our career, it just it's like a question

[00:13:11] because especially in HR, when you're evaluating positions

[00:13:15] and evaluating things and compensation,

[00:13:17] you think about, oh, this person's a manager.

[00:13:19] Ah, is he a manager of people?

[00:13:21] Or is he or she or they a manager of people

[00:13:25] or they a manager of a process?

[00:13:28] Yes, because yes, the job title can have manager in it.

[00:13:31] I've been in that position myself where I had the title payroll

[00:13:35] manager, but the company was like, oh, you managed the payroll.

[00:13:40] Not there was nobody else.

[00:13:42] I was the only person.

[00:13:43] Manage yourself and you're not going to be able to do it.

[00:13:47] And the process.

[00:13:48] Yes, yes.

[00:13:50] So can you grow in your career without leading people?

[00:13:55] Or is leading people a must?

[00:13:59] What was going to take us through some five ways

[00:14:01] you can lead without being in leader?

[00:14:04] Well, without leading people, is that what it's meant?

[00:14:06] Right.

[00:14:07] OK.

[00:14:07] Yeah.

[00:14:09] So these are different ways that you

[00:14:11] can lead right without leading people.

[00:14:15] And if you start to do some of these might set you apart

[00:14:18] and people might start to realize a Brian or Walt

[00:14:22] or Jane lead do these things, they

[00:14:25] might be in a position to lead people.

[00:14:28] And it may consider you for a leadership role.

[00:14:31] So these are some things that you can do to help you get

[00:14:33] to that place.

[00:14:35] So number one, and I agree that this is the top one,

[00:14:38] is you lead by example.

[00:14:40] So you lead by example with your peers, your cohorts.

[00:14:44] You lead by example in meetings through the organization.

[00:14:47] So that's by demonstrating punctuality, meeting your deadlines,

[00:14:52] maintaining a positive attitude, irrespective

[00:14:55] of your position or your age.

[00:14:58] An employee becomes a beacon of reliability

[00:15:02] and professionalism within the workplace

[00:15:05] by doing that.

[00:15:06] And your actions can inspire colleagues

[00:15:08] to emulate such behaviors, fostering

[00:15:11] a culture of accountability and dedication

[00:15:14] throughout the company.

[00:15:16] So lead by example.

[00:15:18] Number two, you can offer support and mentorship.

[00:15:21] So you can have all the experience

[00:15:23] and then you can help mentor other coworkers, other people.

[00:15:27] So proactively extending guidance and mentorship

[00:15:30] to newer colleagues, regardless of the hierarchy there,

[00:15:35] showcases a commitment to collective growth

[00:15:37] and development, which is something

[00:15:39] that we have to do as leaders anyway.

[00:15:41] We have to make sure that our team grows

[00:15:43] and our team develops so they're the best at their job,

[00:15:46] which is best for the company.

[00:15:48] So you can do that by sharing knowledge

[00:15:50] and offering assistance.

[00:15:52] And this helps cultivate a supportive environment

[00:15:56] where individuals of all ages feel empowered

[00:15:59] to excel and learn from one another.

[00:16:02] So number three, you wanna promote

[00:16:04] collaboration and communication.

[00:16:06] A good leader collaborates and communicates, right?

[00:16:10] So by actively facilitating collaboration

[00:16:14] and communication among team members

[00:16:16] that can encourage the exchange of ideas

[00:16:20] and foster a culture of inclusiveness

[00:16:23] and mutual respect, which creates platforms

[00:16:26] for open dialogue and idea sharing

[00:16:29] in this collaborative environment, right?

[00:16:31] So that will value diverse perspectives

[00:16:37] and this contributes to overall productivity at work

[00:16:40] and innovation across all the different age groups

[00:16:44] or people groups, right?

[00:16:46] So another thing that's important

[00:16:48] and something I learned number four

[00:16:50] is taking initiative and ownership.

[00:16:54] That means you're willing to jump out there

[00:16:57] and do something without being told

[00:16:59] knowing that it needs to be done.

[00:17:01] And if you make a mistake,

[00:17:03] you're willing to take ownership of whatever happens,

[00:17:07] good or bad.

[00:17:08] So you do something good, take ownership.

[00:17:11] You make a mistake, take ownership, no matter what.

[00:17:14] So being proactive, taking proactive measures

[00:17:19] helps address challenges or improve processes

[00:17:22] within their sphere of influence

[00:17:25] and demonstrating the sense of ownership

[00:17:27] and accountability, like I said,

[00:17:29] will really help you out

[00:17:30] and why you're trying to strive to lead

[00:17:34] and having these characteristics

[00:17:36] will help you along the way.

[00:17:37] And the number five before I pass the baton here

[00:17:40] is to advocate for change and for innovation.

[00:17:42] So recognizing the importance of adapting

[00:17:46] to evolving trends and technologies

[00:17:49] will help you advocate for change,

[00:17:51] innovation within the organization

[00:17:53] through proactive engagement with management,

[00:17:57] proposing new ideas or participating in pilot programs

[00:18:01] or beta tests.

[00:18:02] Something's another word that you might hear.

[00:18:04] This can champion a culture of continuous improvement

[00:18:07] forward thinking and inspire your colleagues

[00:18:10] of all ages, groups, race, whatever

[00:18:13] and help them embrace change

[00:18:15] and pursue innovative solutions for shared success.

[00:18:19] So those are the five things that I wanted to share

[00:18:22] that can help you lead without being in leadership.

[00:18:27] And then by you doing that and leading by example

[00:18:31] in all these different cases,

[00:18:33] I think that will propel you to being in a position

[00:18:36] to where you be considered really considered

[00:18:38] for being in a leadership position

[00:18:40] or either as your company at another company.

[00:18:43] So that's my thoughts.

[00:18:45] So let me ask you a question

[00:18:46] because this is a question really, right?

[00:18:48] So do you feel that you have to lead people to grow?

[00:18:52] Eventually, yes.

[00:18:53] It comes to,

[00:18:54] I don't think, I think there's a certain point

[00:18:57] that you can do these things that we're talking about

[00:19:01] and just be growing at the same time

[00:19:03] without having people report to you

[00:19:05] or having direct reports.

[00:19:06] You know what I'm saying?

[00:19:07] Like you have to answer to someone

[00:19:10] and you have to like think about it.

[00:19:12] If we're in a position that has customer service

[00:19:14] where we offer customer service to employees

[00:19:16] and this is just my opinion, right?

[00:19:17] You may agree or may not agree

[00:19:19] but we have to sometimes instruct those employees.

[00:19:22] We have to sometimes lead those employees

[00:19:25] or teach those employees what they need to know

[00:19:27] about the system or their paycheck

[00:19:29] or whatever it may be, right?

[00:19:32] So that is a way that you can lead

[00:19:34] and that will help you be successful

[00:19:36] and you can successfully do it

[00:19:38] and improve your job and grow in that way.

[00:19:42] That's why I got to,

[00:19:43] I feel to answer your question,

[00:19:45] I feel that I got there.

[00:19:47] I got to a leadership position by doing these things

[00:19:51] and by doing all the things I just said,

[00:19:53] those five things leading by example,

[00:19:55] by offering support and mentorship,

[00:19:58] by helping people grow, collaborating, communicating.

[00:20:02] Yes, so you don't need to be in a leadership position

[00:20:05] or leading people in order to grow in your career.

[00:20:09] I don't believe that you need to lead people

[00:20:11] in order to grow.

[00:20:14] What about you?

[00:20:15] You disagree?

[00:20:16] Because for me it depends on the phase of your career

[00:20:19] that you're in.

[00:20:20] Because if you're strictly always a manager,

[00:20:23] if you're in this manager title,

[00:20:25] manager phase of your career,

[00:20:27] then yeah, you got to definitely lead people,

[00:20:30] know how to lead people and stuff like that.

[00:20:32] But if you're still the junior,

[00:20:35] I don't think that you need to lead people

[00:20:38] in order to grow to the senior position.

[00:20:42] Okay, I think the evolution of your answer

[00:20:45] tells us how difficult it is,

[00:20:48] the question, because you started off saying,

[00:20:50] yes, I think at some point you have to.

[00:20:52] And then you ended by saying no, you don't.

[00:20:56] I'm just saying it's not an easy answer, right?

[00:20:58] It's very debatable.

[00:21:00] It's in my research, I found folks that grew

[00:21:04] to high levels without having to manage people.

[00:21:08] But it is, I think the easy answer

[00:21:12] is that it's a quicker way to grow.

[00:21:14] It's an easy way to grow because people don't like,

[00:21:18] people don't often like dealing with people and others.

[00:21:21] And some people don't like the customer service parts of it.

[00:21:25] I hate dealing with people.

[00:21:26] I don't wanna deal with people, blah, blah, blah.

[00:21:27] That forward facing retail, something just don't like that.

[00:21:31] So when I think it's an easier way or a faster way

[00:21:35] that you can grow because it's undesirable

[00:21:37] for the most part for some folks

[00:21:39] or whatever it's considered, whatever it might be.

[00:21:44] I do like the points that you had

[00:21:46] because doing those things, it's like either way,

[00:21:49] you're developing a good skill.

[00:21:51] Even if you stay as a manager of a process,

[00:21:54] the things that you pointed out would lead by example,

[00:21:57] offer support, collaboration,

[00:22:00] taking ownership of your things

[00:22:02] and advocating for change and innovation in your process

[00:22:05] will absolutely help you grow, right?

[00:22:09] And it depends, you're right.

[00:22:10] It depends I think on what you're doing,

[00:22:12] what level you're at, what business you're in,

[00:22:15] whether you hit a wall or not on leading people or not, right?

[00:22:20] Now my points cover some,

[00:22:23] if you do wanna go in that leader leading people role

[00:22:28] or why or maybe you're on the fence,

[00:22:30] I don't know if I wanna be a leader of people.

[00:22:32] There's some folks who we've known them, right?

[00:22:35] They actively reject promotion

[00:22:39] because they don't wanna lead people.

[00:22:42] And if you're on the fence, yeah, they're okay with it, right?

[00:22:46] They're managing a process.

[00:22:47] Their individual contributor is what they call it in HR.

[00:22:50] We call it an individual contributor

[00:22:52] and which is fine.

[00:22:53] I think there's room for everyone, right?

[00:22:56] I think a good organization understands,

[00:22:59] tries to let people do and grow

[00:23:01] and where they're comfortable, right?

[00:23:04] But again, if you're on the fence, right?

[00:23:06] Think about some of the things that what this can do,

[00:23:09] if it can help you your career in ways,

[00:23:15] so it can improve motivation, right?

[00:23:17] Effective managers can motivate their team.

[00:23:20] It can improve productivity.

[00:23:22] If you're good with your team,

[00:23:23] if you're really good at connecting with your team

[00:23:26] and you're a good manager of people,

[00:23:29] then it can help your productivity

[00:23:31] because one of again, a very important HR ideology

[00:23:35] is that if you take care of your people,

[00:23:37] the people will take care of the business, right?

[00:23:40] It can improve the work environment.

[00:23:41] If you know, let's say you're in a little corner

[00:23:44] and you actually, you and your team are in your own space

[00:23:47] and hey, you're able to create

[00:23:49] a comfortable safe place for yourselves

[00:23:51] and hey, this is how we get down,

[00:23:52] this is how we are productive, so that's awesome.

[00:23:55] If you're like a good host,

[00:23:57] you're probably a good people manager as well.

[00:24:00] I didn't say leader because that's different.

[00:24:02] That's a whole another conversation.

[00:24:03] Leading and managing is different.

[00:24:06] It can improve the communication, right?

[00:24:08] If again, if you're in this place

[00:24:12] where you have the minion over your team,

[00:24:15] you give them a safe place to talk,

[00:24:16] you can improve that communication.

[00:24:18] And as we mean, we're subscribers of Ray Diallo's

[00:24:22] transparency and the more transparent you can be

[00:24:25] and about your errors, about what you're not doing well

[00:24:29] and all these good things,

[00:24:30] it's the better environment you can have to succeed

[00:24:33] and more productivity can be born from that.

[00:24:36] It improves teamwork, it improves employee development.

[00:24:39] If you're really good at being a people manager,

[00:24:42] you can see where your folks,

[00:24:45] because not everybody gets motivated by money,

[00:24:48] not everybody's motivated by a title.

[00:24:50] Some people are motivated to lead other people

[00:24:53] where others aren't or some people want

[00:24:55] just like a flexible, comfortable schedule.

[00:24:58] So it's your job, the bigger your team,

[00:25:00] it's your job to figure out what motivates each person

[00:25:04] and then trying to drive that for them

[00:25:06] because that's how you get the best out of them.

[00:25:09] And again, they'll develop from there.

[00:25:13] It improves employee retention.

[00:25:15] If you're a good manager, what do we see on Facebook?

[00:25:17] I was gonna say on LinkedIn so much,

[00:25:20] I didn't leave my job, I left my manager.

[00:25:22] You see it on there so much.

[00:25:25] Benefits, of course, yeah, there's good benefits too.

[00:25:28] The benefits are countless.

[00:25:29] Being touching a person is forget about it.

[00:25:31] It could mean the, it could change your life.

[00:25:35] And it can change their lives.

[00:25:36] Oh my gosh, this manager really,

[00:25:38] I've had managers in my life where I was at companies

[00:25:40] that I was just invisible and it was fine.

[00:25:43] I was getting along, I was making my earnings,

[00:25:45] but then these new managers came on board

[00:25:47] and they gave, they were like,

[00:25:50] I was able to shine differently and succeeded from it.

[00:25:53] It was like, oh my gosh, wow, it changed my life.

[00:25:55] And then at the end of the day,

[00:25:56] it improves brand, right?

[00:25:59] How we say we gotta build your brand,

[00:26:01] so it improves your brand,

[00:26:02] but it also improves the company's brand.

[00:26:04] And if the company recognizes those things,

[00:26:07] then it's both, it's improving your brand

[00:26:10] and their brand and your brand and their brand

[00:26:12] and then it elevates the brand, right?

[00:26:14] Yes.

[00:26:15] Being yours or theirs.

[00:26:16] So those are some of the things that

[00:26:19] the benefits out of, if you're on the fence,

[00:26:22] I don't know, I'm getting these opportunities

[00:26:24] to be a manager, but I don't wanna do it.

[00:26:26] I don't wanna do with people.

[00:26:27] I've had managers that left it,

[00:26:29] that came in, they were veteran in the field.

[00:26:33] Amazing professional, but they never managed people

[00:26:36] and then they came in, managed people

[00:26:38] and then left and was like,

[00:26:39] I don't wanna manage people anymore

[00:26:40] because it's tough, it's tough, it's not easy.

[00:26:43] So let me ask you, do you think some people

[00:26:45] avoid it not just because it's tough

[00:26:48] but because they don't want the responsibility

[00:26:53] or the mantle, the weight that comes with it?

[00:26:56] Yeah, heavy is the crown.

[00:26:58] Heavy is the crown.

[00:26:59] And your castle could be a four people team,

[00:27:03] but it's tough, you have to now deal

[00:27:05] with the human dynamics of people

[00:27:08] and what they're going through.

[00:27:10] Remember when we talked to Brad Voorhees,

[00:27:12] he was, we talked to an HR expert on the other show folks

[00:27:14] and it's a good show, I got one day we'll find ways

[00:27:17] to drop these clips over on Cross Polyne

[00:27:20] and make sure everybody's getting the content.

[00:27:22] But if you go check the show with Brad Voorhees,

[00:27:25] it's about your pay-per-view

[00:27:27] it's about your payroll, it's about payroll, sorry.

[00:27:29] This is, it's about your paycheck.

[00:27:32] And he mentioned how HR is evolving

[00:27:35] to a place where HR may have to deal

[00:27:38] with personal problems of employees.

[00:27:40] Yes, they are dealing with personal problems.

[00:27:43] You see, and that's front line,

[00:27:44] where do you think that starts with their manager?

[00:27:46] They go to their manager first.

[00:27:47] Oh, hey, manager.

[00:27:49] And it could be a multitude of things

[00:27:51] and one of the thoughts and sentiments that I like

[00:27:55] is as a good manager, you gotta meet your people

[00:27:57] where they are, right?

[00:27:59] You have to allow for them to have personal lives.

[00:28:02] Cause if not, then what are they doing this for?

[00:28:06] You know what I mean?

[00:28:06] Yeah, I remember back in the day,

[00:28:09] I worked at places that felt,

[00:28:11] it felt like you couldn't even have a sick day.

[00:28:14] Like you couldn't go to,

[00:28:16] there was language in some of the HR handbooks.

[00:28:18] If there was a family member

[00:28:20] that unfortunately got for biz, more bit here

[00:28:22] but they passed away,

[00:28:24] but they want your immediate family.

[00:28:26] Bereavement?

[00:28:27] Yeah.

[00:28:28] Yeah, you can't.

[00:28:29] Bereavement, yeah, I was just talking about that somewhere.

[00:28:31] I don't know, we talk so much about this stuff.

[00:28:34] But yeah, I was talking about how

[00:28:36] I had lost my uncle at a job

[00:28:38] and my mom's brother, like my uncle, right?

[00:28:41] And I couldn't, I took the days

[00:28:44] but I couldn't take it as bereavement.

[00:28:45] I had to take it out of my PTO

[00:28:47] because it was the family member wasn't close enough.

[00:28:51] Right?

[00:28:52] And then it's like, what?

[00:28:54] Who's to say?

[00:28:56] You know what I mean?

[00:28:57] Say you had a best friend that is not blood related

[00:29:00] and you're like brother, sister, your people

[00:29:03] and then they pass and their job tells you

[00:29:05] you gotta use your PTO or you don't have any PTO.

[00:29:08] Sorry.

[00:29:09] Gotta tell you, yeah.

[00:29:10] Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:11] And in the moment, we may not care

[00:29:14] and we shouldn't, I probably wouldn't even care.

[00:29:15] I would be like, look,

[00:29:17] heaven forbid that happened.

[00:29:19] I probably at the point where I'm willing

[00:29:20] to lose the job to pee there from,

[00:29:22] because like your brother like that, your family member,

[00:29:25] the family who be the friends who become family,

[00:29:27] any who it's just again, we as a,

[00:29:30] those are the complexities, right?

[00:29:32] About like dealing with people.

[00:29:35] What's that?

[00:29:36] Write that down, that's the show right there.

[00:29:38] Which one?

[00:29:39] About bereavement, family.

[00:29:41] Oh yeah, for sure.

[00:29:42] But yeah folks, we wanted to just touch on that

[00:29:45] and so the answer is really it depends

[00:29:47] can you lead without leading people?

[00:29:49] Can you grow without in your career?

[00:29:51] It depends.

[00:29:52] All right, as you can see, Brian called me out.

[00:29:54] I said yes and no, just Brian called me out for it.

[00:29:58] All right, we're gonna go to the safe talk right now

[00:30:00] before we close out this show.

[00:30:02] And the safe talk question is,

[00:30:04] which is the more important skill to have as a leader?

[00:30:08] People skills are technical skills.

[00:30:14] What is more important, Brian, as a leader?

[00:30:17] It's not an easy question.

[00:30:20] Okay, so do you mean leader as now you have to lead people?

[00:30:27] Yeah, leader, yes that's how I meant this question.

[00:30:29] Okay, if that's how you meant it then yes,

[00:30:31] people skills are the more important piece

[00:30:38] because yeah, that's what I think.

[00:30:41] Yep, because the technical skills got you there

[00:30:44] but the people skills are gonna keep you there.

[00:30:47] As a leader, I think it's the technical skills

[00:30:49] more in my opinion because if you don't know

[00:30:52] how to do your job, how are you gonna teach

[00:30:54] other people how to do their job?

[00:30:57] That's fair but there are plenty,

[00:30:58] there's managers schools of thought, ideology that says,

[00:31:04] I don't have to know how to do your job

[00:31:05] I just know how to have to get you to do your job.

[00:31:09] It's one of the bait you keep throwing doozies

[00:31:12] at us here because...

[00:31:14] Just like the president, right?

[00:31:16] The president is the president of the United States

[00:31:18] but he's not managing all the different.

[00:31:21] That's why there's a secretary of defense.

[00:31:23] That's why there's secretary of transportation

[00:31:25] or whatever all these different departments

[00:31:27] and they all report to the president

[00:31:31] but the president is not in front facing them

[00:31:33] on all of those every day like that.

[00:31:35] And so like it's just...

[00:31:38] So I see your point from that skill point

[00:31:40] from that place about the people.

[00:31:42] So I guess at the end of the day it might be both

[00:31:45] which both skills are important.

[00:31:47] Yeah, it's tough.

[00:31:48] Again, it's what side of the fence you fall on, right?

[00:31:50] Because this is the debate.

[00:31:54] You're falling on the side of I prefer managers

[00:31:56] that know what the F they're doing.

[00:31:58] You know what I mean?

[00:31:59] Whereas I'm like, if they're a good people person

[00:32:01] they don't have to know that.

[00:32:02] Yeah, because this is what somebody said to me

[00:32:05] as a leader when I first became a manager

[00:32:07] and I was like, oh the people, the people, the people.

[00:32:09] But Walt, yeah, for the people

[00:32:11] that's a lot of fluff though.

[00:32:12] You gotta teach them how to do their job.

[00:32:15] So that's what stuck out to me is just like,

[00:32:16] hey, you know me, I'm all for the people.

[00:32:20] I'm all for my team.

[00:32:21] People's team.

[00:32:21] But they were like, you gotta level up

[00:32:24] on these technical skills.

[00:32:25] Yes.

[00:32:26] No, there you go.

[00:32:27] So that manager was probably a proponent

[00:32:30] of the technical piece, right?

[00:32:31] Nope, this is what the job is.

[00:32:34] And again, and I think it just falls

[00:32:37] on one side of the other.

[00:32:40] You come up in the place.

[00:32:41] So really it's like a tightrope.

[00:32:43] You're walking the type of thing.

[00:32:45] Yeah, it's a balancing act.

[00:32:46] You're going to know it.

[00:32:47] I don't even know if it's that.

[00:32:48] You're just going to have people on both sides

[00:32:50] where it's people skill.

[00:32:52] It's technical skill.

[00:32:53] It is people skill.

[00:32:53] And it's probably both.

[00:32:56] Yeah, it is a tightrope.

[00:32:57] It's the balance of both.

[00:32:58] Gosh, man, we got some.

[00:33:00] See this is why it's a good show

[00:33:01] because it's like, it's a good topic

[00:33:03] because it's like, what's the right answer?

[00:33:05] And so much in payroll and each other

[00:33:08] right answer is it depends.

[00:33:11] Yes, it depends.

[00:33:13] It depends on the environment.

[00:33:14] It depends on people.

[00:33:15] It depends on the nature of the job.

[00:33:17] It depends on so many things.

[00:33:19] And it's so annoying, but at least hopefully

[00:33:21] we're giving you some tools, some things

[00:33:24] that are helping to prepare.

[00:33:27] Yeah.

[00:33:28] And what do you as an employee prefer?

[00:33:30] Right.

[00:33:31] You prefer a leader that is nice to you.

[00:33:35] Or do you prefer a leader that's, hey,

[00:33:36] this is what you do?

[00:33:37] Boom, boom.

[00:33:38] And that's how you receive your leadership

[00:33:40] because everybody's different.

[00:33:41] Just like when it comes to these coaches,

[00:33:43] like they say, oh, he's a player's coach.

[00:33:45] Yes, exactly.

[00:33:47] Or is he like, check him on how many coaches

[00:33:50] in all professional sports never played the sport?

[00:33:54] Yes.

[00:33:55] It's so.

[00:33:55] But there are great coaches.

[00:33:57] I think of Van Gundy family right out the gate.

[00:34:00] Right.

[00:34:00] Yes, Nick's.

[00:34:01] He was a next coach for a lot through successful

[00:34:04] Nick's seasons.

[00:34:05] Yes.

[00:34:06] Right.

[00:34:06] He never played basketball.

[00:34:07] Maybe he played a little, but not on a professional level.

[00:34:10] He shot hoops.

[00:34:11] But you know what I'm saying?

[00:34:14] But it's such a here's a really good.

[00:34:17] Here's a good advice as we end the show.

[00:34:20] Right.

[00:34:21] If you have a manager that leans one way or the other,

[00:34:24] you know that you need to supplement some other way.

[00:34:27] Right.

[00:34:28] So if you have a manager that's a great people person,

[00:34:30] but you're not learning the skill that you want.

[00:34:33] Now you know, you have to supplement some other way

[00:34:36] to get that skill set you want.

[00:34:37] And then vice versa, you may have the skills.

[00:34:40] You may have all the skills you need.

[00:34:41] But man, I just need a good people person

[00:34:43] to manage this team so we can be successful in that.

[00:34:46] Again, that might be a little tougher to supplement

[00:34:49] because but you may want to then talk to your man.

[00:34:52] Hey, look, we got the skills, man.

[00:34:54] We need you person to just help us get to this point.

[00:34:59] We don't you don't have to worry about our skill set.

[00:35:01] We're there and let us prove that.

[00:35:02] And we need you to be an advocate of us to get, hey, better PTO.

[00:35:06] Or, you know, we need a different break room.

[00:35:09] We need to work from home days.

[00:35:12] We need this.

[00:35:12] We need that's what we that's what we need you to go fight for us for.

[00:35:16] You know what I mean?

[00:35:16] Yes, because I've been in that.

[00:35:17] Four ten hour days.

[00:35:19] Yeah, we need one.

[00:35:20] We want four 10s, three 12s, whatever the case.

[00:35:22] I've been in that situation as well where my team was stacked with skills.

[00:35:27] And I'm like, I don't need to teach you all anything.

[00:35:29] Let me just what can I do?

[00:35:30] How can I help you in other ways?

[00:35:32] How can I be a tool?

[00:35:34] Because that's the part I don't think people tell folks say when you become

[00:35:37] a manager, it's it almost becomes it.

[00:35:40] It's almost like a cycle.

[00:35:42] Right.

[00:35:43] You start off supporting people.

[00:35:45] Oh, I'm going to grow because I'm going to be a great supporter

[00:35:47] in the team and this and grow.

[00:35:48] Well, when you get to man, you're never the same thing again.

[00:35:52] It becomes you got to become a cheerleader.

[00:35:55] You're never not in a support role.

[00:35:57] That's it.

[00:35:58] Right.

[00:35:59] So like you graduate as a manager, you graduate to another level of it.

[00:36:03] Well, now instead of just supporting your manager or supporting the company,

[00:36:08] now you got to support your employees and you got to support the higher ups

[00:36:13] as well.

[00:36:14] Yep.

[00:36:15] And and your counterparts across the departments.

[00:36:18] Man, this is a great topic, man.

[00:36:19] It might be a good show for us to do.

[00:36:24] Speaking of shows, next show, as Brian said, we're going to take

[00:36:28] a few weeks off, but we have some things in the vault for you.

[00:36:33] Some lost tapes and we're going to start off that next week with some

[00:36:38] interesting stuff and everything and give you some stuff to really think about

[00:36:44] and everything.

[00:36:45] So anything before we close out?

[00:36:47] No, man, that's it.

[00:36:48] I think it was a good one.

[00:36:50] Thank you, folks.

[00:36:50] We love you.

[00:36:53] Peace.

[00:36:54] Peace.

[00:36:56] Before we sign off, here are a couple of quick things.

[00:36:58] Don't forget to follow.

[00:36:59] It's about payroll on LinkedIn and it's about your paycheck on Facebook

[00:37:03] and TikTok.

[00:37:05] Thank you for being a part of our payroll community and thank you

[00:37:08] for being a part of this journey with us until next time.

[00:37:11] Keep learning.

[00:37:12] Keep growing.

[00:37:14] And most importantly, keep going.