Lost Tapes Episode 1 - CPP or Not to CPP!

[00:00:00] Welcome back folks. This is our new, we haven't named it yet, but this is a new show.

[00:00:08] We're getting through with it. By the time we go live, we'll have a name for it.

[00:00:12] We promise it will be something where we're like unfiltered, uncensored, safe talk, mindful moments.

[00:00:18] I love it all. I don't know what it's going to be yet. What about Walt? What's good tonight?

[00:00:23] Yeah, I'm excited for tonight. I'm excited for tonight's conversation. Look forward to it.

[00:00:28] We're really looking to really get into it and have a healthy dialogue, maybe even a little bit of debate about self-man, self-like that.

[00:00:36] The debate with ourselves, but yeah. Because we both feel the same way, so it's...

[00:00:43] But boom, let's get right into it on this episode. We're going to talk about this controversial topic of

[00:00:52] to get the CPP or to not get the CPP. I think as payroll professionals, we all struggle with it

[00:01:00] and like where I think where the longer you go without it, the more you feel like, I don't need it.

[00:01:10] But then you have those days, right? What do you think? Well...

[00:01:14] Well, absolutely. It definitely has an impact when you're applying or looking for

[00:01:23] investment, right? But how do you know that? You don't know.

[00:01:29] What do you mean? Impact on your own psyche?

[00:01:32] Or... I think in multiple ways, right? Because like I know we had someone...

[00:01:38] I forgot. What are our guests? We were talking about this. I think maybe behind the scenes,

[00:01:44] we were talking about this aspect and she would say like how one of her friends was applied for a job

[00:01:49] and it wasn't getting anything and then she got to her CPP and all of a sudden, Adelaange.

[00:01:56] Yeah. Yeah. So that's my standpoint is...

[00:02:03] Yes, there's definitely some benefit to it. But when I look at us, neither of us are certified.

[00:02:12] We've taken the test. Unfortunately we didn't pass it. I've taken it twice and failed it.

[00:02:19] And so I've known other people that we've talked to that have taken it a couple of times or a few

[00:02:25] times and failed it. And they're still successful. Yeah. This room. They still know their stuff.

[00:02:34] They're still on top of the gate. Their stars in their craft. Yeah.

[00:02:41] Yeah, like I think it's almost like back in the day. Well even now, they say hey you need to have

[00:02:50] a degree in order to... That's also a good debate. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's

[00:02:56] fucking the same vein in my opinion, right? Well yeah it's in the same vein. It isn't the same

[00:03:02] vein but not as... I think the degrees they've made it more of a barrier in the past like you said.

[00:03:12] That's a lot. But that was a hard barrier, right? Like with payroll jobs, I've seen in my past like

[00:03:22] when it's time for me to start looking again and when I moved and all these things,

[00:03:29] I would see some jobs go from CPP required, right? To CPP preferred because look at the end of the day,

[00:03:39] there's millions of payroll jobs. And I think we tried to capture the number one time and it's only

[00:03:46] in the thousands, within the tens of thousands of CPP folks that are certified, right? Because

[00:03:54] that information is available and we know so there's a huge gap between certified and uncertified.

[00:04:04] So the jobs, if you're not finding talent because you have that CPP filter or FPC, I don't want to

[00:04:15] discount the FPC. Just know folks that we're talking about both, right? Let's go ahead and certification.

[00:04:21] It's both... I'm not disrespecting either. Like then do you see that feel like it opens up the pool

[00:04:30] when they take that filter... When it's preferred, it's boom, now the pool is open and whoa,

[00:04:36] you know what I mean? So it's such a tough topic to talk about because of that. You have so many

[00:04:44] people that are successful without it. And then yet we get these horror stories and these scary stories

[00:04:53] and we talk to folks and we feel a certain away. We feel away because they're certified or

[00:04:58] they're having trouble finding work because they're not certified or whatever. I took it to

[00:05:03] and I failed but in my defense, like I just walked in on and I didn't really do the practice that

[00:05:12] they recommend via all of the guides. Like even Lindsay when we talked to her, she was like three to

[00:05:19] six months that she studied for it and that's the norm that I hear. Three to six months of studying

[00:05:26] in preparation for the test. And as soon as you finish studying, you need to take the test. You have

[00:05:30] to time it that as soon as you finish studying, you take the test. I just anyway, I just walked in and

[00:05:39] took it. I got a 270. You needed 300 and that was painful and I've heard other people get 295.

[00:05:47] Yeah. That's the worst. I feel better at my 270 because I knew like they were

[00:05:55] there was a whole gap and it was good. Like it told you where you didn't do well and I

[00:06:02] literally, I still have it on my phone like the sections and this is in many iPhones later

[00:06:09] but I pulled it through all my notes always and it's like my main note. It's still like my main note

[00:06:14] that I use in life and it's in the header of CPP but it's not it's just like a reminder constantly

[00:06:22] but it's that double-edged sword because we get to a point where we're really pretty successful

[00:06:29] without it. Look, we prepared some stuff. We're going to play both sides. We're going to touch on some

[00:06:39] of the reason what is it? Benefits of having it as opposed to how you still can be successful without it.

[00:06:48] So go ahead, we'll take us through a couple of these and we'll bounce back and forth here.

[00:06:56] So we're going to talk about the benefits of having it. So the number one is just

[00:07:03] getting and acknowledge the skills. The oral certification is provided comprehensive understanding

[00:07:08] of payroll processes, laws, regulations and best practices. It's probably such as payroll calculations,

[00:07:15] test compliance benefits, administration, record T-pealian payroll software. By acquiring this knowledge

[00:07:22] you become better equipped to handle complex tasks and navigate legal requirements. So when it says

[00:07:30] that I feel like if you're good at your job as a payroll professional, you're going to develop

[00:07:38] those skills anyway. Yeah, that one is very matter of fact

[00:07:49] and the flip side of that is on the other side of this when we talk about how to be successful

[00:07:57] without it because you're right. Like the next one, you get perfectional credibility, right?

[00:08:05] But I have problems with this one because it says, a payroll certification demonstrates your

[00:08:14] commitment to your profession and validates your expertise. Fagnos, I don't believe that

[00:08:22] to be true. And the word valedays would catch me up. Now you're saying I'm only validated in my

[00:08:31] skills. Right? Well, I look for their personal experience as saying it validates the person who

[00:08:42] looked at the test or passed it and obtained the certification. That's on them reading it.

[00:08:49] I don't read it that way. So I'm offended by the next one too. It says employers often value

[00:08:56] certified professionals as they can rely on their up-to-date knowledge and adherence to industry

[00:09:03] standards. Again, I think that's true. But I didn't know. But see, yes, it's true. But

[00:09:12] what are you saying? That non-certified or not? That's not what I'm saying. We're talking about

[00:09:19] the benefits of being certified. So what are we saying? If you're this then you're not.

[00:09:24] Let me finish. So what I'm saying is that employers, I'm saying that employers often do value that,

[00:09:33] which is what the point I made earlier about the person who wasn't getting any traction with their

[00:09:39] applications all of a sudden got her certification and then the floodgates opened.

[00:09:46] That's what I, and my opinion that's because those employers value that.

[00:09:53] Fair. But I could discount that too. The tie, it could be just coincidence in the time frame

[00:09:58] that she looked without it to the time frame she looked with it. Different employers would,

[00:10:06] you know what I mean? Again, this is why this is a good conversation.

[00:10:10] The last one I did agree with it can help you stand out from non-certified candidates and

[00:10:17] boost your credibility among colleagues, clients, and stakeholders. Now that is a fact.

[00:10:22] Okay. There's no, it's matter of fact. The other things are opinion to me.

[00:10:29] That's all I'm saying. Like the other things are opinion to me. And that's what gets me

[00:10:33] to get offended. Yeah, I get what you're saying. I can see your side of it, but I can also see

[00:10:44] the other side of it through it. It is more of an impeninated statement for the first two.

[00:10:50] And the last one is more kind of concrete. Yes, it can help you stand out from non-certified candidates.

[00:10:55] Absolutely will. It not can. It will. Right? That's a fact.

[00:11:00] Real good. But I got you real quick, it doesn't last day me kind of coincide to what

[00:11:08] is why employers will often value certified professionals because it helps you stand out against

[00:11:16] the non-certified ones. No, having it makes you stand out. Companies valuing the CPP, the separate.

[00:11:30] Yes, separate. So we can come back to it, but the next one because of now we'll get stuck on this

[00:11:38] show all night. Career advancements. This I thought was a fact. Paral certifications can open doors

[00:11:46] to career advancement opportunities. Yes, they can provide a competitive edge when applying for

[00:11:51] promotions and seeking higher level payroll positions. Yes, certified professionals may access,

[00:11:57] may have access to a broader range of job opportunities and may be eligible redundant. Same

[00:12:02] shit again. Yes, yes, having it is better than not having it at the end of the day.

[00:12:10] But it doesn't mean that it doesn't guarantee success. And I think that's what some of the stuff

[00:12:18] that kind of leads to that is what bothers me. You know what I mean?

[00:12:21] You know what I mean? Because it because I get what you're saying. It makes you seem like everybody else

[00:12:26] who doesn't have his is in a way some par. Yeah, yeah. So I get what you're saying.

[00:12:35] This next one networking opportunity was meh. This is just filler nonsense. Okay,

[00:12:42] but you're open. Sure. Now, networking opportunities is what you make it

[00:12:48] just because you have something doesn't. Yes, okay, it gets you in the door at CPP only things.

[00:12:55] Well, look at us. We can use ourselves for examples as two payroll professionals.

[00:13:00] We have a podcast for a starting-to-own business. We're connected with multiple contacts and

[00:13:08] people throughout the payroll industry. Yep. Oh, lower. So I think it's about getting out.

[00:13:17] Reaching out to people was up. No, I'm gonna write it down. Go ahead.

[00:13:24] Like it's about taking the initiative and just reaching out and like actually

[00:13:30] going out to people and like trying to connect with them. You know what I'm saying?

[00:13:39] Yep. Yep. Fine. Have it. Look, again, I think it was just a fluff thing for why you should have it.

[00:13:46] The last one, I have my, I have set a bunch of things I'm having trouble with here to

[00:13:52] professional development, maintaining a payroll certification often requires ongoing professional

[00:13:58] development through continuing ed and recertification. Facts. It forces you to do it. You have

[00:14:04] to get recertified. So that's a cool thing. You have to keep getting recertified.

[00:14:10] That's really all it does is it forces a little bit of professional development, whatever.

[00:14:16] What else does it say? This ensures that the certified professional stays up. This ensures

[00:14:21] that they stay up to date on the latest changes and pay. No, it does not. Does not ensure

[00:14:27] that because you can go through these, you can just go through the motions on the certification

[00:14:31] stuff. All you have to do is take classes like you can get on a webinar for an hour,

[00:14:37] go on autopilot, watch TV, click. Yes. And boom, you're through your class. It doesn't get you didn't

[00:14:44] absorb that shit, right? You got to be good at what you do to absorb. So that's why I have a

[00:14:50] problem with that statement. Fake news, continuing learning and professional development can contribute

[00:14:55] to your long term success and keep your keep you relevant in the field. Facts and must be done

[00:15:02] regardless of certification. That's my ad to it. Like yes, but you got to do that any way to

[00:15:07] be a good payroll professional. So I get it. It's almost getting to the point where like everything

[00:15:13] they say is to be to have you have it, you have to do it anyway regardless. So to be successful,

[00:15:20] right? You have to to be good. Yes, to I don't even know if you to be successful. I don't know

[00:15:26] but to be good at it because what you just said me the other day about confident spoken

[00:15:35] these people who are the most confident and not always the most competent. Yeah, that's true.

[00:15:41] So it doesn't guarantee you say it doesn't mean like it does. What is a relevant success keep you

[00:15:48] relevant long term? I was saying I was saying like to be have success just in general as a payroll

[00:15:56] professional. You got to be yes, you're exactly now saying that oh, you'll be successful because

[00:16:04] we had a conversation with someone and I forget who it was but they said that they know people

[00:16:09] who have this sort of occasion. Yep. And they're struggling. Yep. And they can't do basic payroll stuff

[00:16:15] thing. Yeah, you really book smart and then we're going to get to this. We're going to get to that

[00:16:19] concept too. And then before we leave this area, my comment is it doesn't even exist in other

[00:16:25] countries. It doesn't exist in the UK. The CPP is American based. And so what happens to the person

[00:16:37] I don't know, I'm just saying it's getting angry. No, no,

[00:16:41] just get well. I get it because the way that this some of the stuff that they worded

[00:16:48] could have been taken like hey, let my chop liver over here. Yeah, as a payroll professional,

[00:16:54] I've been in this like two plus decades and stuff. Right. Have I not made changes? Have I not

[00:17:01] come highly recommended? Have I not excelled and stuff implemented payroll systems?

[00:17:07] I get the QD payroll properly kept it under a certain era level. Yes.

[00:17:16] All right, but I get why it fuels your fire made it pushes your buttons. I get it. Yeah,

[00:17:22] I run yeah, so it's just without a payroll certification. While the certification can provide

[00:17:30] certain assess several bossing certain advantages, it is possible to succeed in the payroll field

[00:17:38] without one and retest them to that people. Absolutely. Here are some of the factors that can contribute

[00:17:44] to success. Success even without a certification number one, experience.

[00:17:53] Yeah, meaning ethical experience in payroll management is highly valuable,

[00:17:57] demonstrating a track record successfully handling payroll responsibilities,

[00:18:03] managing complex payroll systems and insuring compliance can be just as can Ellie

[00:18:08] to employers as a certification as it should be. Yeah, see what people should be able to look at your

[00:18:15] CV or your resume and wow, look at all the stuff this person's done. All the experience that they have

[00:18:23] all the implementations, all the different systems, all the different functions that they

[00:18:28] the C suite concentrations, all these different things that you've done over your career

[00:18:33] and be really impressed. To people. Yep, yep.

[00:18:39] The over two transferable skills, skills such as attention to detail and analytical thinking,

[00:18:46] problem solving, time management, effective communication or crucial for success in payroll management.

[00:18:53] Building and showcasing these skills through work experience and accomplishments can help you

[00:19:00] succeed with garless of certification status that goes back to the point that we were talking about

[00:19:06] developing those skills. Yep, no matter where you go in life in the payroll world universe,

[00:19:14] you are going to wreck it. Yep, you're going to kill it. You're going to kill the game,

[00:19:20] you're going to be like wow, this person really knows their thoughts. Jeez,

[00:19:26] make sure you go about aging and rest though when he said that manager told him how to do

[00:19:32] not only do payroll where you are, do payroll where you're going. Yep, yep.

[00:19:38] So the transferable skills piece because how many juniors have we come across that? Oh, I do

[00:19:44] payroll, I do payroll, I do payroll and then we put them to the test and they're like,

[00:19:48] do you show you the bill? Yep. And number three, this is the part for me that I guess out of all

[00:19:56] of these, all of them are important but if you do this one, you're going to, you're going to

[00:20:03] yes, this isn't the key to the job. Yes, continue what's learning. What were you going to say?

[00:20:09] That's the key to the job, right? Regardless of certification,

[00:20:14] you can't, you can't, right? You can't stay unlearned on learning.

[00:20:22] You cannot. Yeah, I learned it. I didn't know learning was a word when I heard my boss say

[00:20:28] one time, I was like learning. I had to look it up and out. I was like, oh, she's really speaking

[00:20:31] right. Any who that to me, these. Yeah, concern. Consigne was learning is that's the whole key to

[00:20:41] this, right? If you want to be good at this, you have to stay learning about stuff. You have to stay

[00:20:46] researching the states, research and compliance. We talk about what makes a well-rounded payroll

[00:20:52] person all the time. Yep. That has to be maintained regardless of certification.

[00:20:58] You've, you've had to in a way and maybe you can describe it in a better way but I feel like no matter

[00:21:07] what level you get to in payroll, you have to remain teaching.

[00:21:12] Whether that's teachable to yourself, you have to be able to receive that knowledge no matter

[00:21:19] what the whose source is whether that's you reading something, whether somebody's talking to you

[00:21:23] or at you, whether you're listening to a webinar or it's a TED talk, you're going to payroll

[00:21:29] congress or you're going to unleash no matter what it is, you have to remain teachable. Yep. Yep.

[00:21:38] Number four says professional professional network against the same BS. They guess

[00:21:45] you're in a club. There's a brotherhood of non-profession. There's a brotherhood of not certified

[00:21:50] as a brotherhood of certified. Okay. I've they know their stuff and you're connected with them.

[00:21:57] It's going to be beneficial for you. Exactly right.

[00:22:00] No professional. Exactly right. You don't have your certification. A lot of the people that

[00:22:06] that we've had on his guests are helpful of them one or two, I think a couple of them have had

[00:22:11] this CPP. Oh yeah. At the end of the day folks there's no conclusion both paths are still realistic

[00:22:17] for now. When you say that what is what do you what do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean?

[00:22:23] No, I'm not saying you're because good. I know you were both paths both paths have realistic

[00:22:30] sense. Yeah. In them what you mean? Yes. Yes exactly what I'm sorry. Yes that's what I mean.

[00:22:36] You can be successful either way because at the end of the day let's not forget the APA created

[00:22:43] the CPP. Right it's not that this is a an entity that just made it up at the end of the day folks

[00:22:53] right? It's not like the bar to get you to do practice law. It's not like a MD to practice medicine.

[00:22:59] Those things you have to get to practice that right? This is we don't have to get it to practice

[00:23:07] though I think until that changes will this argument still exist? This conversation will stay relevant

[00:23:15] or it goes away. I'm not neither for against it is just a matter of fact in our world

[00:23:25] and like you said AI is going to continue to impact this stuff so what happens then? How does that

[00:23:31] change the plane? The cyber security has to be rolled into this CPP?

[00:23:39] It's not aging well. The CPP has to age a little bit it has to update for that.

[00:23:46] Yeah AI I think. Asperger. Yeah. That's right. Yes.

[00:23:51] Yep. It has to be rolled in. Yes. Because everybody's on his AI kick and it's just going

[00:23:58] to listen AI explosively now that's going on. There's a neck there. I

[00:24:03] explain this going on and all this stuff is just going to be expanding. I think we've only seen

[00:24:08] the tip of the iceberg. Oh heck yeah. We're just starting to train bots and train AI, machine learning

[00:24:16] and all that stuff like it kind of the tip of the absolute tip of the iceberg. But they're well

[00:24:22] so politicians are already trying to counter that and they're state by state they're having

[00:24:28] issues with AI and they're trying to limit how it's progressing. We'll see. We'll see we may not

[00:24:36] be allowed to do certain things going forward because of the fear of SkyNet, the fictional SkyNet.

[00:24:42] We're talking about Terminator folks. It's in for those fans yeah for those of you who know what it is

[00:24:47] if not it's the fictional SkyNet and the robot stakeholder. So one thing here that is worth

[00:24:55] talking about is the test taking abilities right because some of the folks that we hear they say

[00:25:04] I'm a bad test taker and okay sure but it's worth noting that labeling someone as a bad test taker

[00:25:13] may not accurately reflect their overall knowledge right I think that's what we got to keep in

[00:25:18] mind some individuals may excel at alternative forms of assessment and different ways to take tests

[00:25:24] in these skills. So if they if they made the tests go along with standardized testing then yeah

[00:25:33] the same folks who have trouble with the SAT and all this stuff are going to have trouble with this test

[00:25:38] yeah but because everyone learns in a different way right and everybody tests in a different way

[00:25:47] doesn't mean that you somebody else can kill somebody else's test score when it comes to the aspect

[00:25:54] but you send them down in front of a payroll system and tell them to figure out

[00:25:57] you have the person might be able to figure it out more than the book right you know what I'm saying

[00:26:03] so like it just appears on the individual right and then in the day so yes I love that point

[00:26:10] that you put in there just because you might be a bad test taker does it equate to you being a bad

[00:26:17] payroll profession exactly exactly yeah something that's I felt at twice I think I did better the first time

[00:26:25] did I did the second oh well I'm going in around the Richard yeah for real but again because it's really

[00:26:37] yeah I have trouble with it because it really is just one of those things where

[00:26:46] there's some most of the stuff that I took on that test like you don't even use in day to day practice

[00:26:51] but it's nice to know the concepts and understand that and I guess but you're going to get good anyway

[00:26:59] if you want to be good at payroll you're going to get good at payroll regardless of the test absolutely

[00:27:04] and I can understand your frustration I don't know what they got shared this with you there was

[00:27:09] an interview that I went to one time I think it was a Pittsburgh for a payroll position

[00:27:15] and I had to meet a bunch of different people a lot of the board means and they just kept

[00:27:20] all that one time yes they were all asking me questions and they the top of the certification came

[00:27:27] up and I was like no I'm not sort of rotating me just I have a passive but I have you know extensive

[00:27:33] payroll experience stuff like that as my resume shows and the only response that gave was like oh

[00:27:41] that's unfortunate yeah I didn't get the job yep because they wanted that filter

[00:27:49] they wanted that potential so that's the thing that kind of resonated with me when it says

[00:27:55] the benefits of getting the certification or anything maybe I would have been considered

[00:28:02] I made the hub got in the job still bright but you would have been more considered yep

[00:28:07] you know the person for the person to say that in the interview well that's unfortunate later

[00:28:14] yeah you knew there shit there you go I lost this yep

[00:28:19] how do you how did they say that you stack your chances you you know you increase your chance

[00:28:23] sure absolutely it increased your chances

[00:28:28] but look just the way is my degree or not degree did that help me you know what I mean I don't know

[00:28:38] well we've gotten to the same point in payroll don't have a degree I have a degree

[00:28:45] how did I didn't make a difference doesn't seem like it I know I went I went to a

[00:28:54] a payroll school in the military for six months when they taught you how to do that's pretty cool

[00:29:00] you could that that's on your resume right yeah yeah see that looks pretty cool then see that's

[00:29:06] how you you know what I mean what's up payroll school and it literally taught you for

[00:29:10] months before that you went what do your main station they taught you for months there

[00:29:18] everything is different right I mean you had the past test and you had the past class

[00:29:24] why you had to stay there so I passed see you should have in the end of you you should have been

[00:29:29] like no but I was rigorously trained during the military and block you should have good end

[00:29:35] that would do they would have been like oh wow yeah maybe you know look if they have the filter

[00:29:41] they have the filter you know what I mean like I was at a I was at a I worked for a human resource

[00:29:46] director once and we would open the a job surgeon he was like they must have a bachelor's and I was

[00:29:51] like why he's because I just want the filter I don't want to do with anybody else without

[00:29:56] what you could you could bypass a lot of good people that way thank you a ton what about

[00:30:03] what they got the associates and they're working on the bachelor's but if they just been doing it

[00:30:07] for 20 years with that we're gonna pass up on it it's arbitrary that that's annoying you know

[00:30:16] what I mean it's annoying I knew I knew this mechanic guy that I was friends with back of the day

[00:30:24] his dad worked on cars and he was great everybody came in came to him to fix their car because

[00:30:30] he knew how to work on corners yeah what the car was he like you knew hey you need this part you

[00:30:35] need this you need that you need this but I think even mechanics now as sort of vacations or schools

[00:30:41] like trace school type of situation you can go to the reason I'm braiding that was because he had

[00:30:46] trouble because he was trying to he don't have any certain agents and have any type of official

[00:30:52] school and he was like yeah my dad taught me no dollar than the garage yeah that's all so just

[00:30:59] it was good for you that's good so good story but

[00:31:04] and a nutshell for the show if you feel like you want to get your certification because you feel

[00:31:09] like it'll be beneficial to you go ahead and do that yes the damn thing then right yes absolutely

[00:31:16] but absolutely if you feel like you want to progress without it and you've been doing well

[00:31:22] without it keep progressing keep learning that was as we say so even if you don't have the CPP

[00:31:29] continuing education is a must like we said here continuing learning regardless of category

[00:31:36] is the that is the one mandate for payroll professionals you must continue to learn

[00:31:43] whatever it is you take your webinars all of your vendors give free education so you get take

[00:31:50] advantage of that company should be paying for your continuing education so you should not have

[00:31:57] to come out of pocket for it there are a ton of webinars out there to take with us yeah there's

[00:32:06] there's some episodes on our podcast you can learn from oh thank you oh gosh if you listen to the

[00:32:11] show you will learn a ton got people that come on and teach us though stay on LinkedIn and read

[00:32:17] because everybody in payroll like there's always sharing information you know so that's the good

[00:32:22] thing about it because we are a sharing bunch but there is no one resource you have is a cultivating

[00:32:31] and curating a combination of resources I think somebody said that I forget who it was I have an

[00:32:40] idea but I'm not no don't blow them up anyway that's fine but they said Google yeah Google

[00:32:51] well it is it's tons of stuff but you got to make sure it's legit of course you gotta know

[00:32:56] you gotta validate your sources but any research through Google really even on YouTube you too

[00:33:04] you gotta validate all that stuff because there's tons of fake stuff out there right

[00:33:07] and again you just you have to stay continuous learning and that's it folks that's it very very

[00:33:15] good debate very good yeah yeah seeing both sides and people were able to hear how you thought about

[00:33:22] it how I thought about it now that you heard that what are you thinking as a listener what do

[00:33:29] share your thoughts let us know send us some stories that's it folks yeah man thanks for joining thanks

[00:33:38] for your time sir as always peace we love you peace