Earn Before You Burn: Understanding Earned Wage Access Benefits

[00:00:04] Welcome to our podcast, It's About Payroll. We're your hosts, Brian Escobar and Walter William Duncan III. Whether you're new to the payroll game or a seasoned veteran, we have something for you.

[00:00:19] Welcome back, folks. It's About Payroll, episode 132. We're talking Earned Wage Access. But before we get into it, how are you doing, Walt?

[00:00:33] I'm doing good, Brian. How about yourself?

[00:00:36] Man, I'm good, bro. I love that we, I really feel good in my soul about breaking up the episodes back to their-

[00:00:44] Or back to their original state.

[00:00:46] What we focus on. Right. Back to the original state, yeah. Cause we, again, folks, we're doing tests. We owe you guys. If you've been listening to us from the beginning, you've seen the whole evolution. OMG, right? And we just felt for this audience, they always got something because we were always saying,

[00:01:04] regardless of the show, we are still teaching payroll people something.

[00:01:08] Yeah.

[00:01:08] But it's the other show that we really wanted to focus on the employees. And I felt like they were getting short sticked from it. They were getting the short end of the stick, how people say.

[00:01:47] Yeah.

[00:01:49] It's a bunch of things, a bunch of things. As we'll get into it on this show right now.

[00:01:54] Yes, sir.

[00:01:55] Plus my little fidget toy over here. Oh no. There we go. All right. All right. We'll, as always, we'll start us off with pay news updates. What you got for us today, sir?

[00:02:04] I have an article from payroll org and a shout out to pay org, by the way, um, and talking about holiday incentive pay. Um, so there's an article that they put out on the 8th of November.

[00:02:21] And it said, it stated that the Colorado Supreme Court ruled that holiday incentive pay must be included in the calculation of the regular rate of pay.

[00:02:34] There was, and they referenced a case, I guess, an employee Hamilton versus Amazon. And in this case, incentive pay was additional compensation for any work that the employee did on a company holiday.

[00:02:49] And it was supposed to be paid at any over at an overtime rate at the hourly, at the employee's hourly rate for any hours worked. The employer unfortunately did not include holiday incentive pay in the calculation of overtime because they refused to.

[00:03:08] And so this employee sued and the court ruled in his favor or their favor.

[00:03:13] So what is holiday incentive pay? So is it formal compensation that employee employers offer to employees who work on holidays and it can take the form of time and a half where employees receive 150% of their normal hour, your hour hourly rate on it for working on a holiday.

[00:03:37] So it can be paid as a holiday. It can be paid as double time and it also can be paid in the form of a bonus as well. So it's, it's, it's, you know, money on top of, uh, what you normally would get a holiday.

[00:03:51] That's why it's called incentive.

[00:03:53] So, so that you may see a UPS person working on a holiday, more likely they're getting holiday incentive pay.

[00:04:00] A FedEx person might be getting a holiday incentive pay. Amazon person, like in this case, might be getting a holiday on incentive pay.

[00:04:08] Now there's not mind you, this is in the state of Colorado, the Colorado Supreme Court said, this may be different in a different state.

[00:04:14] So you want to do your research as a payroll pro or the HR pro, or if you're an employee listening to this, you want to do that research as well.

[00:04:21] You know, that's it. What about you?

[00:04:23] Yeah. Interesting. As we continue on the holiday season and talking, a lot of companies are increasingly offering earned wage access as a benefit to attract and retain employees.

[00:04:35] For example, retailers are enhancing holiday hiring incentives by providing on demand wage access.

[00:04:43] They're saying, right, Hey, come work for us for the holidays.

[00:04:47] And you could probably pay yourself daily, weekly, whatever, cause there are guardrails on it.

[00:04:52] So be careful.

[00:04:53] Right.

[00:04:54] So yeah, they're using it as an incentive.

[00:04:57] You know? Yeah.

[00:04:58] Check out, check it out, which probably going to drive our payroll peeps crazy because if you don't, they must already have it in place.

[00:05:06] So that, and that's, and that's the, that's one of the questions that I want to go over later.

[00:05:11] Right.

[00:05:11] That you saw my notes.

[00:05:12] Yeah.

[00:05:13] Um, cause it's curious, right?

[00:05:14] Any who, but before we get into earned wage access,

[00:05:17] let's pay the bills.

[00:05:18] Yes, sir.

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[00:06:36] Let's go.

[00:06:37] All right.

[00:06:39] So we're talking about earn wage access, EWA pay on demand.

[00:06:45] I think one company hit it on the mark when they named their company called daily pay.

[00:06:49] And it's the reason why I really wanted to talk about this subject is because I think it's a great product.

[00:06:57] When I first heard, saw the demo or heard the demo and the intro for it all and the pitch and all that for it a few years back, it was from daily pay.

[00:07:06] And I was just like, wow, this is amazing.

[00:07:09] And I did have questions, right?

[00:07:10] I was like, how does it work?

[00:07:12] What are the fees?

[00:07:13] How does the things?

[00:07:14] And again, all the, it checked all the boxes.

[00:07:18] It seemed like it was the right thing to, to offer your employees.

[00:07:22] The employer can put guardrails around it.

[00:07:25] It does, um, require payroll intervention.

[00:07:28] Like you would need to get your payroll team involved to, to build an integration.

[00:07:34] And it doesn't sound like it's a lot of work.

[00:07:36] I haven't worked anywhere that we've had it yet, but it doesn't sound like a lot.

[00:07:41] Thing is there's some amendments.

[00:07:44] There are some laws changing and shifting.

[00:07:47] Cause that in the beginning, it just, the way they pitched it was you get earned wage access.

[00:07:53] You have to earn the wages.

[00:07:54] Think about gig workers and how they, and this is why it really blew up is because of the advent of the gig worker,

[00:08:00] because the gig worker, they can get paid daily, right?

[00:08:04] You can get your funds quicker.

[00:08:06] Earned wage access companies piggybacked on that and said, Hey, how do we,

[00:08:11] we also do it?

[00:08:12] All right.

[00:08:13] So fast forward a couple of years down goes, and now there's a ton of earned wage

[00:08:18] access companies out there and government is starting to take notice and starting to really shift how they feel about it.

[00:08:27] And effective January, 20, 24 Connecticut, small loan lending and real related activities act regarding earned wage access advances.

[00:08:38] And there was another one from May 10th, 20, 24 department of labor guidance on third party.

[00:08:46] So let's see what they're saying.

[00:08:47] So what they're saying is that Connecticut small loan act is saying that a small loan includes loans with the $50,000 limit and an APR over 12% and transactions like advances on future wages.

[00:09:03] So they threw them in the bucket.

[00:09:05] So they threw them in the bucket.

[00:09:05] Sorry, folks, I need to get a little drink of water here.

[00:09:10] So they're saying government is trying to say that it's a small advance loan and it's really not.

[00:09:18] But that's just my opinion.

[00:09:21] What else are they saying?

[00:09:22] Advances to consumers for future wages that are under 50,000 and have an APR exceeding.

[00:09:26] Okay, I said that already deal well guidance on EWA products.

[00:09:31] They're saying voluntary agreements between workers and EWA providers.

[00:09:35] Yep.

[00:09:36] These arrangements for outside the deal well jurisdiction unless the employer is involved.

[00:09:44] Here is where the problem is.

[00:09:46] If the employer integrated model exists, the state wage payment laws may apply.

[00:09:53] And as the deal well maintains jurisdiction over employer employee relationships.

[00:10:00] Folks, we're just sharing info, right?

[00:10:02] We don't have no idea how all this is going to play out.

[00:10:05] What's going on.

[00:10:06] I absolutely know for a fact that these companies have lobbyists in DC trying to prevent it from becoming a advance loan anything.

[00:10:17] Because it's really not access to your wages.

[00:10:21] Okay.

[00:10:22] But again, that's just our opinion.

[00:10:24] I don't know if wall agrees, but that's just my opinion on what this is.

[00:10:28] The employer responsibility.

[00:10:30] Employers must obtain written authorization from employees for payroll deductions related to EWA service fees on a deal well approved form.

[00:10:40] DOL reviews authorization to assure fees are nominal and inflectable as the service costs.

[00:10:46] Deductions do not lower employee wages below minimum wage.

[00:10:50] Impearl with time.

[00:10:52] I want to take a break real quick just to let you know about a new show we've just added to the network up next at work hosted by Gene and Kate Akil of the Devon Group.

[00:11:04] Fantastic show.

[00:11:06] If you're looking for something that pushes the norm, pushes the boundaries, has some really spirited conversations.

[00:11:13] Google up next at work, Gene and Kate Akil from the Devon Group.

[00:11:21] It says that impact overtime pay or lack financial disclosures.

[00:11:27] As I read through the things it's in.

[00:11:30] And I think that's all I'm going to share.

[00:11:31] I'm going to speculate because the rest is it gets into more legalese and things like this.

[00:11:36] But my take on it is that it is not a loan.

[00:11:42] It is not an advance.

[00:11:44] I guess you could say that in advance, but it's not a loan.

[00:11:47] I don't even know if it's an advance either.

[00:11:49] We'll talk about it, man.

[00:11:50] We'll talk about that.

[00:11:51] You got more?

[00:11:52] Yeah.

[00:11:52] See, that's why I'm getting caught.

[00:11:53] All right.

[00:11:54] Walt's going to share.

[00:11:54] And then as we close, we'll speculate a bit more.

[00:11:57] So look, I'm just going to get into some specifics about California and about what they're doing.

[00:12:02] Different states are chiming in.

[00:12:04] They got opinions.

[00:12:05] Yeah.

[00:12:05] So look, like there's new regulatory requirements in the state of California.

[00:12:09] So they're leading the charge with specific EWA regulations.

[00:12:14] So beginning in February 15th of 2025, California will require direct to consumer EWA providers to register under the California Consumer Financial Protection Law, CCFPL, rather than requiring full licensure under the California financing law, which is CFL.

[00:12:37] This new framework treats EWA advances as income-based advances, aligning them with lending regulations without equating them to traditional loans.

[00:12:48] This change impacts, this change impacts providers who operate outside employer-sponsored programs.

[00:12:55] It's introducing new disclosure reporting and legislation obligations to ensure transparency with consumers.

[00:13:02] So it looks like California is trying to do this to give more protection to the consumers and more to the employees.

[00:13:08] They always say California is one of those employee-centric states.

[00:13:11] Yep.

[00:13:11] And so because of this, California's regulations, A, to protect consumers from those hidden fees that are requiring those disclosure about any fees, such as gratuities or expedited payments.

[00:13:27] The providers must clearly state these charges, and it is now accepted.

[00:13:34] When this passes, it will be considered a deceptive practice to imply that registration equates to the state endorsement.

[00:13:41] So it's really going to hold these third-party EWA providers to a certain standard to keep them honest in this case.

[00:13:49] Okay.

[00:13:49] That sounds good at face value.

[00:13:51] Yeah.

[00:13:51] Yeah.

[00:13:52] And so, because they're going to be telling them, hey, you got to tell them the cost upfront.

[00:13:55] Okay.

[00:13:57] So that's cool.

[00:13:58] So there's going to be some federal oversight that complies with this as well.

[00:14:03] At the federal level, the regulatory bodies like the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau have started to define EWA under lending laws, such as the Truth in Lending Act.

[00:14:16] TILA.

[00:14:18] TILA.

[00:14:18] Yeah.

[00:14:19] They, the CFPB rescinded no action letter from 2021, send those in growing federal interest in defining the consumer rights and disclosures associated with the EWA programs.

[00:14:32] So employers who are offering EWA, you need to stay informed about what's going on with this, the federal regulations to avoid potential compliance risks.

[00:14:43] Right.

[00:14:44] And so you just want to be careful as the employer, right?

[00:14:47] Because this is the reason that the EWA, it was started was to offer flexibility, the employee to get early access to those earnings.

[00:14:57] So they want the employee to understand, hey, potential fees and ensure that, that these advances do not become a recurring debt-like tool, which is crucial, right?

[00:15:11] Look, I don't know if anybody's ever in the back in the day.

[00:15:14] I know I have, I'll tell them myself, I'll be honest.

[00:15:16] When I was younger and I wasn't making much money, I had to do some payday advances.

[00:15:21] Me too.

[00:15:21] Back in the day.

[00:15:22] Right.

[00:15:22] And so I think they're, in my mind, it sounds like they're trying to prevent EWA from becoming that.

[00:15:29] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:30] Right.

[00:15:30] I agree.

[00:15:31] I agree, but I didn't hear that.

[00:15:32] I'm not, we talked to these folks directly and that's never the case with the, and I'll even, if we have time, I have some of the fees that are involved and it's not that.

[00:15:43] By 2025, the EWA landscape will likely have more formalized protections and responsibilities.

[00:15:51] Yep.

[00:15:51] Which help employees access their earned wages in a more transparent and share environment while that employers and EWA providers adhere to these new compliance standards.

[00:16:03] That sounds better.

[00:16:04] That, I like how Kali's framing it, but still, and where are, where's my leg at?

[00:16:11] Where's my leg at?

[00:16:12] Where's my leg at?

[00:16:12] Oh my goodness.

[00:16:13] I looked up some of the fees that are involved.

[00:16:17] I got a million screens of.

[00:16:19] All right.

[00:16:19] So some of the fees that they're saying, and this is ChatGPT, but it is searching the data.

[00:16:25] We're getting good at prompting.

[00:16:27] It is checking against resources on the internet for current knowledge.

[00:16:31] They're saying the per transaction fees, which you should be aware of, it's not, it's free to the employer.

[00:16:36] Earn wage access is usually free to the employer.

[00:16:39] The employer has to endure the process of integrating it with their payroll and agreeing to do it.

[00:16:45] Like you got to sign off.

[00:16:46] Right.

[00:16:47] But the fees are usually to the employee.

[00:16:50] And this is what everything you said is good because it's protecting the employee from these, from what could become harsh fees.

[00:16:58] So the first thing was like per transaction fee, but it's only in the instance of it says flat.

[00:17:05] Let's see.

[00:17:05] Many EWA providers charge a flat fee for each advance.

[00:17:09] For instance, some services may charge between $199 and $499 for instant transfers.

[00:17:15] Okay.

[00:17:15] If you want to get paid today because you work today, or if it's a weekly thing, because again, the employers should be able to put guardrails on how often and how much can be accessed.

[00:17:29] So if you allow a daily thing that could be $2 a day or $5 a day, that could get expensive.

[00:17:35] Well, you got to pay attention.

[00:17:37] You, the employee has to be like, okay, look, I'm not going to do it daily.

[00:17:40] I'll do it once a week.

[00:17:41] The sidebar is one of the surveys that I came across out there.

[00:17:46] Most folks did it.

[00:17:48] They made themselves weekly paid.

[00:17:50] They didn't do it daily.

[00:17:52] Most employees that were used to a semi-monthly or a bi-weekly, they made themselves get paid weekly.

[00:17:58] So that's a nice flow, right?

[00:17:59] You ever got paid weekly.

[00:18:01] Ooh, that's nice.

[00:18:02] Yeah.

[00:18:02] Every Friday is a check.

[00:18:03] Yep.

[00:18:04] Um, some of the other fees are subscription fees.

[00:18:08] Certain, some of these platforms offer a subscription model.

[00:18:12] Another fee is expedited fees.

[00:18:14] So if you want to get it quick, cause again, you could do $2, but it doesn't hit till the next day.

[00:18:20] Or are you going to pay them?

[00:18:21] Or three business days, one to two business days.

[00:18:24] It can't.

[00:18:25] Yeah.

[00:18:26] I get it.

[00:18:26] If that's the case, then it could be a piece of purpose, but you pay the expedited fee and you get it very quickly.

[00:18:31] But now here's, here's where that California stuff comes into play because you want to get protected from all this.

[00:18:36] And then, and then they said some of the platforms suggest you leave a tip for the support service.

[00:18:44] Yeah.

[00:18:44] Like, come on.

[00:18:45] That's ridiculous.

[00:18:46] That's like the, when you go buy food now, some places they turn the screen around and it's a tip thing.

[00:18:51] Like you ain't doing nothing.

[00:18:52] You ringing me up.

[00:18:54] Any who.

[00:18:56] So those are some of the fees.

[00:18:57] And what do you think about all this?

[00:18:59] Well, like what?

[00:19:00] Oh, look, I think that this is.

[00:19:04] And that there's going to be some definite pushback.

[00:19:08] I think that one of the key things that we did talk about, I think that California was trying to do is just have transparency.

[00:19:15] Right.

[00:19:16] What's going on and keeping these companies honest with everything.

[00:19:19] Look, and if the employee look at the end of the day, it's the employees chose that they want to do this.

[00:19:24] If their employer offers it, or if they use a third party provider and the employees like, Hey, this is what I want to do.

[00:19:30] Then the employee should have better understanding.

[00:19:35] I was the one.

[00:19:36] What goes into this, right?

[00:19:38] Hey.

[00:19:38] Hey.

[00:19:39] So if I get a hundred dollars now and I get it expedited and I mistakenly hit the tip too, I'm going to be paying back more.

[00:19:47] And my next check, they'll what I potentially borrowed.

[00:19:51] If you think about it, so I can borrow a hundred dollars and end up paying back one to one 25, one 30.

[00:19:59] You know what I'm saying?

[00:20:00] If that's how it works.

[00:20:01] I don't think that's how it works though.

[00:20:03] I think it, I think if you get a hundred and you get fees, you're going to net out $75 and you can still pay the a hundred back.

[00:20:11] No, I don't think it's how it works.

[00:20:12] How do you know what you.

[00:20:13] I don't think that's how that, I think they added on top of what you're getting.

[00:20:19] Cause why?

[00:20:19] Cause I don't think they're going to deduct those fees from what you're getting.

[00:20:23] We don't know.

[00:20:24] So yeah.

[00:20:25] Cause, cause that would, if it was that case, then it would make no sense to do at all.

[00:20:29] What?

[00:20:30] And I want a hundred dollars.

[00:20:31] Either way you got to pay it.

[00:20:33] Yeah.

[00:20:33] Either way you got to pay it.

[00:20:35] But I think it's going to be the other way you're going to pay more.

[00:20:38] Because think about the only reason I say that is because the way that earned wage access is you're getting against a hundred dollars.

[00:20:44] Your company only has a certain amount of pay to give you.

[00:20:49] It doesn't matter what fees and all this you're talking about.

[00:20:53] They're going to pay you.

[00:20:55] Let's say you get, let's make the numbers easy and let's do it in a weekly thing.

[00:20:59] So it's a thou let's say I get a thousand dollars.

[00:21:01] I'm getting a thousand dollars net on Friday.

[00:21:05] Net.

[00:21:07] Right.

[00:21:08] And I take, and your company only allows you 80%.

[00:21:13] So now I can only get $800.

[00:21:15] Mm hmm.

[00:21:16] That $800 is going in the bucket.

[00:21:19] They don't care how you feed it up.

[00:21:22] It's only that $800 that's going in the bucket.

[00:21:25] So I get, we probably we're saying the same thing, but doing the math and a different timing because it's only $800 that's going into that bucket.

[00:21:35] I hear what you're saying.

[00:21:36] You're on your own wages.

[00:21:38] I hear what you're saying.

[00:21:41] There's no extra.

[00:21:42] They can't say, Oh, $800 plus I owe them a hundred.

[00:21:45] Your company's not giving it to you.

[00:21:47] They're only putting $800.

[00:21:49] You missed what I said about third party.

[00:21:52] You're talking to them.

[00:21:53] You're talking about the employer.

[00:21:54] I'm talking about if they did it with a third party.

[00:21:57] But that's how it works with third party.

[00:21:59] I know people that have actually done it.

[00:22:01] Done what?

[00:22:03] Did earn wage access.

[00:22:05] I got in their money early.

[00:22:06] Okay.

[00:22:07] Through a third party.

[00:22:08] Okay.

[00:22:08] I'm telling you, that's how it works.

[00:22:09] They get a hundred dollars.

[00:22:10] Now you know, you just said you thought, but now you know.

[00:22:12] I know how, how, how it works because I know people that have done it.

[00:22:17] Okay.

[00:22:18] So how does that work then?

[00:22:20] How do you, how does the company.

[00:22:21] I just explained it to you.

[00:22:22] I just explained it to you.

[00:22:23] The third party, if a person requests a hundred dollars.

[00:22:28] You know what you should know?

[00:22:31] You should know the, you should know podcast.

[00:22:33] That's what you should know.

[00:22:35] Because then you'd be in the know on all things that are timely and topical.

[00:22:40] Subscribe to the, you should know podcast.

[00:22:43] Thanks.

[00:22:44] They're going to add the fee on top of that a hundred dollars.

[00:22:46] The person is going to get a hundred dollars.

[00:22:48] Okay.

[00:22:49] But they're going to pay back the same thing.

[00:22:51] This.

[00:22:52] So we're saying the same thing.

[00:22:53] So it just, the way you do $800 quicker.

[00:22:56] So instead of me actually putting $800 in my pocket, I can only put in, I'm only going

[00:23:01] to get, I'm only going to get seven.

[00:23:05] I I'm taken away from what I could take tomorrow.

[00:23:08] If I do it.

[00:23:08] That's how you meant that thing.

[00:23:09] Yes.

[00:23:10] It, we both saying the same thing.

[00:23:11] It's just the timing of the math.

[00:23:13] What I'm saying is the company is the employee is limited as to how much they're getting period.

[00:23:22] So fees or no fees.

[00:23:24] It's if those fees are high, it's eating into how much they can pull out in advance.

[00:23:30] The company's not going to pay them more to cover fees.

[00:23:34] Is what I'm saying.

[00:23:34] You're pulling against the check.

[00:23:36] That's not what I'm saying either.

[00:23:37] I'm not saying that there's no more you would.

[00:23:39] I know, but what I'm trying to say is it's limited still, regardless of what timing of

[00:23:44] it all is.

[00:23:45] It's limited.

[00:23:48] I agree with you.

[00:23:50] Look, like you'll be taken away from your next check.

[00:23:54] Or your paycheck.

[00:23:55] You're not going to get paid.

[00:23:56] You're literally taken away from it.

[00:23:57] It's all.

[00:23:58] I looked for real quick.

[00:23:59] What we at?

[00:24:00] Oh, we got a couple minutes.

[00:24:01] I looked up quick stats.

[00:24:02] See what stats were out there.

[00:24:04] It says by 2023, approximately 24 million individuals were checked to utilize EWA.

[00:24:12] Data indicates that EWA uses has tripled over the recent years, reflecting significant increase

[00:24:17] in employee engagement with these services.

[00:24:20] The majority of EWA users are under 40.

[00:24:25] Interesting.

[00:24:29] And employees using EWA services save an average of $50 per month on overdraft fees.

[00:24:36] Okay.

[00:24:37] And then 89% of employers offering EWA have observed a decrease in employee turnover.

[00:24:45] See, it's the stats are in favor of earned wage access.

[00:24:50] That's why I get mad at the stop calling it a loan in advance.

[00:24:54] Now I get it.

[00:24:54] If there's some companies out there being predatory with the fees, then yes, that's the problem.

[00:25:01] But I like it, man.

[00:25:02] I think they, I think I hope it stays around and I hope that they regulate it properly so

[00:25:08] that employees could take advantage of it.

[00:25:10] And now like us back in the day, if you, you, that advance loan, if you didn't pay that advance loan on your paycheck date,

[00:25:17] when you said it, you got a double, triple.

[00:25:20] It was ridiculous.

[00:25:21] Question of the day.

[00:25:22] What do you think the impact is on payrollers?

[00:25:26] I think that we definitely should care.

[00:25:29] I, I, if, because we want to make sure that the employees are getting paid properly.

[00:25:35] Right.

[00:25:36] Whether that's, whether that's.

[00:25:38] Because look, I don't know who runs the EWA program with your employer that they use.

[00:25:46] If it's offered as a part of the service.

[00:25:48] So maybe that's automatic and they'll deduct it.

[00:25:51] Maybe there's automation to it and you, that employee, the payroll person doesn't have to worry about anything.

[00:25:56] Or anything like that.

[00:25:58] You know, I think from that standpoint, we should care because we naturally care about making sure.

[00:26:05] We can want to make sure the employee gets paid correctly and that things are done correctly, but we may not have to do anything because they're in these cases, I'm, I'm guessing.

[00:26:15] That there's automation with this, these services.

[00:26:18] There is.

[00:26:19] That's the news, right?

[00:26:20] So.

[00:26:20] Yeah.

[00:26:22] There is.

[00:26:23] Doesn't mean your company gets to take advantage of it because even though there's a ton of automation in the world, doesn't mean every company's ready for it.

[00:26:29] Because my thing is the reason why I asked that whether payroll or should care or not is.

[00:26:38] Again, the model that I was presented only requires a daily feed of hours.

[00:26:50] And rate, of course.

[00:26:53] So whatever EWA company you have has to get a daily feed of the hours and rate that an employee is working.

[00:27:01] That's simplified.

[00:27:02] I'm sure there's a little bit more.

[00:27:03] I'm sure social employee ID, the demographics, these things have to be fed over properly.

[00:27:10] But as long as they have that, the employee can pull wages.

[00:27:16] And the payroller only processes payroll just the same.

[00:27:23] But.

[00:27:25] The employee, the employee has to add.

[00:27:31] I think like a, their direct deposit.

[00:27:34] To their profile.

[00:27:37] And the, that, that money goes to them.

[00:27:40] So like the portion that they had taken that this is where the advance comes in.

[00:27:44] And the loan speculation is because I'm giving you taking money on Monday, but whatever company is not getting it back to Friday or the following Friday.

[00:27:53] So that's where that part is, but the pay roller processes pay to my knowledge.

[00:28:00] The same.

[00:28:02] Somebody has to, to your point, somebody has to.

[00:28:07] Recon.

[00:28:08] Somebody should be reconciling.

[00:28:10] That's a good call out who reconciles that.

[00:28:15] And that's it.

[00:28:16] That's all I could think of.

[00:28:18] Well, but I'm sure that there might be some payroll pros who play a key role in implementing that and managing it.

[00:28:24] Yeah.

[00:28:25] Well, for sure.

[00:28:26] For sure.

[00:28:27] But to that point, should we care that whether an employer gets it or not?

[00:28:34] Do we have any skin in the game?

[00:28:36] Is that what you meant?

[00:28:38] Yeah.

[00:28:39] Should we care?

[00:28:39] Should we care if my company gets it or not?

[00:28:43] You know what I mean?

[00:28:44] As a pay roller.

[00:28:47] Is it going to make their job harder?

[00:28:49] Easier?

[00:28:50] I think somewhere we just should care.

[00:28:54] I think we should care.

[00:28:55] To what extent though?

[00:28:55] Why?

[00:28:56] Because it makes my job harder, easier?

[00:28:58] Um.

[00:28:58] Or is it just from the human aspect you're saying like.

[00:29:01] It depends on all of that, right?

[00:29:03] It depends on.

[00:29:04] Look.

[00:29:04] I feel like if there was a way for the people that I service now currently in my current role to have access to their funds sooner.

[00:29:13] Sure.

[00:29:14] What?

[00:29:14] Right.

[00:29:14] Benefits deal.

[00:29:16] Yes.

[00:29:16] Right?

[00:29:17] So like that, that I do care about that.

[00:29:20] I do care about paying them, right?

[00:29:21] Gotcha.

[00:29:22] I do care about those things.

[00:29:22] That's just a personal thing.

[00:29:24] Yep.

[00:29:24] My standpoint is it's, it's, you take it as it's your deal.

[00:29:29] You may not necessarily care whether your company has it or not from as at, as a payroll pro Ryan.

[00:29:35] But me, I had my job offered it.

[00:29:38] Are they within my offer?

[00:29:39] And I would say, yeah, let's do it.

[00:29:41] Now, on the other hand, you may be in a role as a payroll pro where you don't have that much bandwidth.

[00:29:48] And people are relying on you to be the one to implement and manage this.

[00:29:53] So you got, it's another way that you shouldn't care whether or not you do it.

[00:29:57] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[00:29:59] Yeah.

[00:29:59] So yes.

[00:30:00] I think either way, there should be some level of care that goes into it.

[00:30:06] Right.

[00:30:07] It just depends on you and your scenario as the payroll or HR pro.

[00:30:12] And, oh, we're over, but we gotta, we can, there's some stuff to shave down in here.

[00:30:17] And as you pose, do earned wage access programs, help employees manage their stress, their debt, or do they risk becoming a cycle of reliance that undermines long-term financial stability?

[00:30:31] Yeah, it depends.

[00:30:32] It depends on the employee in that situation.

[00:30:34] Right.

[00:30:36] The statistics say that it's helping.

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:40] I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure it does.

[00:30:44] Like you said, improved recruiting and retention, improved employee satisfaction.

[00:30:48] Turnover.

[00:30:48] Just turnover.

[00:30:49] Yeah.

[00:30:50] Faster filling of open position.

[00:30:52] Like all those things.

[00:30:53] Hell.

[00:30:54] What?

[00:30:55] What do we say in our episode of?

[00:30:58] It's up to the employee.

[00:31:00] Every individual employer is a different case.

[00:31:02] Yeah.

[00:31:03] And so it was up to them to have some type of.

[00:31:05] Yeah.

[00:31:05] They're not good with money.

[00:31:06] Yeah.

[00:31:06] It doesn't matter.

[00:31:07] Right.

[00:31:07] It doesn't matter how often they're getting it.

[00:31:09] Right.

[00:31:10] They're going to be broke anyway.

[00:31:12] Yeah.

[00:31:12] But I think, again, I think it's a really, it, I think it's a good program to monitor.

[00:31:21] If you have your, if you're skeptical, monitor it and adjust it accordingly.

[00:31:27] Meaning if, cause again, you can, you, the way I was pitched this one company, the employer

[00:31:34] can control how much they're allowing the employees to pull out.

[00:31:40] So they could say, well, 80% is too much.

[00:31:43] My employees are struggling.

[00:31:44] So let's do only 50%.

[00:31:48] Who knows?

[00:31:49] Monitor.

[00:31:49] I don't know.

[00:31:50] I don't know.

[00:31:51] I think it's eager to see how it plays out.

[00:31:54] I think it is a great tool for employees, especially coming from a semi monthly frequency

[00:32:03] where that semi monthly can get a few days apart, further apart than that you could be

[00:32:12] comfortable with sometimes.

[00:32:13] Sure.

[00:32:13] I think about my folks in the UK, like in Europe and the rest of the world, they get paid monthly.

[00:32:18] If you don't know any other way, you're, it's just your way and you're fine with monthly.

[00:32:25] You know what I mean?

[00:32:25] Yes.

[00:32:26] What do you think overall?

[00:32:29] Overall about EWI?

[00:32:30] I think it's good.

[00:32:31] I think it's good.

[00:32:32] I think that honestly, again, like I was saying earlier that what the benefits that you mentioned

[00:32:38] and ongoing work to make it more transparent, to have those employees protected, to make sure that they're educated about what the purpose is and why they should.

[00:32:50] And employers too.

[00:32:51] Right.

[00:32:51] You know, why they should probably do it.

[00:32:54] Man, I think it's a win, right?

[00:32:56] Like the, the payroll landscape is ever changing.

[00:33:01] And there's going to be some new stuff that rolls out there on the future that we're going to have to worry about.

[00:33:06] So I think honestly, I think it's good for the employer and the employee.

[00:33:12] What do you feel?

[00:33:15] I think you nailed it with the future's coming and it's going to change.

[00:33:18] I thought right away, crypto.

[00:33:19] They're already paying in crypto.

[00:33:21] There are some companies, there's a crypto token that pays, does runs payroll.

[00:33:26] And then what about bricks?

[00:33:30] Have you ever been to a webinar where the topic was great, but there wasn't enough time to ask questions or have a dialogue to learn more?

[00:33:36] Well, welcome to HR and Payroll 2.0, the podcast where those post webinar questions become episodes.

[00:33:41] We feature HR practitioners, leaders, and founders of HR, payroll, and workplace innovation and transformation, sharing their insights and lessons learned from the trenches.

[00:33:50] We dig in to share the knowledge and tips that can help modern HR and payroll leaders navigate the challenges and opportunities ahead.

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[00:34:02] Bricks was bricks.

[00:34:03] That new currency.

[00:34:06] Brazil, Russia, Indonesia, China.

[00:34:09] Yeah.

[00:34:10] Oh really?

[00:34:11] Yeah.

[00:34:11] What, like the Euro?

[00:34:13] Yeah.

[00:34:13] They came up with their own currency.

[00:34:16] Word.

[00:34:16] Yeah.

[00:34:17] Okay.

[00:34:17] We'll try to give competition to the dollar.

[00:34:19] Look, I know the dollar is out there and is king right now, but.

[00:34:23] Not always.

[00:34:24] No, the Euro gets ranked higher in value.

[00:34:26] Sometimes the Euro's higher.

[00:34:28] Okay.

[00:34:28] Yeah.

[00:34:29] So it's the Euro and the dollar top two and then bricks.

[00:34:33] I love it.

[00:34:34] They gonna bring a whole new meaning to moving bricks.

[00:34:37] I love it.

[00:34:38] I gotta see.

[00:34:39] I gotta look, we gotta look that up.

[00:34:42] Currency for, but see.

[00:34:44] Yeah.

[00:34:44] So to that point, I think that, and when we first asked about, oh, we over, but when we first asked about paying in crypto.

[00:34:55] Well.

[00:34:56] Some of the legal feedback I got was you can pay in whatever you want.

[00:35:03] If you, if your employee agrees to get paid in oranges, guess what?

[00:35:06] You can pay them oranges.

[00:35:08] It's between the employer and the employee.

[00:35:10] So if the employee says, yeah, I'll get paid in crypto, then you can pay them in crypto.

[00:35:16] You can pay them in bricks.

[00:35:17] You can pay them in euros.

[00:35:18] It's then it's up to the employer to actually want to do that though.

[00:35:21] I can go through the jump through all the hoops and the legalities to actually do that.

[00:35:27] So that's where I think it becomes a bigger issue is the company's willingness to pay you in a different.

[00:35:34] Currency or meth, whatever it is.

[00:35:38] And just, and circles all the way back to EWA, because one of the big feedbacks that we got at the conference at PayCon last year was that.

[00:35:48] It's their biggest friction, their biggest obstacle is actually the sign off from the company that the CFOs or the CAEO just don't want to implement the system.

[00:36:00] And they tell their, they like, why do I have to help with their financial wellness when they can deal with it on their own?

[00:36:07] And that's super insensitive to your workforce because 80% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

[00:36:13] So why wouldn't you help them?

[00:36:17] All right, folks.

[00:36:19] I hope you enjoyed this invigorating episode of it's about payroll.

[00:36:26] As me and Walt battle out EWA technicalities, we need to get some of our EWA folks online to, to clear us up.

[00:36:36] Yeah.

[00:36:38] Brian's a stickler for what you say.

[00:36:40] So gotta be careful.

[00:36:41] That's right.

[00:36:42] But I'm learning that.

[00:36:45] Yeah.

[00:36:47] Do what you say and say what you do.

[00:36:49] Learning is actually might be a mental disorder, but we'll cover that on a different episode.

[00:36:54] Maybe with Keenan over at Francis.

[00:36:57] It's a preference.

[00:36:59] It might be a disorder, but we'll talk about it.

[00:37:02] Talk about that offline.

[00:37:04] Well, it's a quirk.

[00:37:07] We all got our quirk.

[00:37:08] We all got our quirk.

[00:37:09] Quirk.

[00:37:09] Sure.

[00:37:10] We got our quirk, bro.

[00:37:11] That's what they call it.

[00:37:13] Yeah.

[00:37:15] Oh, no, man.

[00:37:16] It was a good debate, man.

[00:37:18] All right.

[00:37:18] Yeah.

[00:37:20] We love you.

[00:37:21] All right.

[00:37:22] Peace.

[00:37:30] Before we sign off.

[00:37:31] Here are a couple of quick things.

[00:37:33] Don't forget to follow.

[00:37:34] It's about payroll on LinkedIn and it's about your paycheck on Facebook and tick tock.

[00:37:40] Thank you for being part of our payroll community.

[00:37:42] And thank you for being a part of this journey with us until the next time.

[00:37:47] Keep learning.

[00:37:48] Keep growing.

[00:37:49] And most importantly, keep going.