HR like a BOSS: Loosing to Tiger Woods & Building Success in HR with John Bernatovciz

[00:00:00] , I literally was selling million dollar deals in EP back in the early 2000s and I was more concerned about how do I get more people to put quarters in these water vending machines because I own the business.

[00:00:15] I didn't own ADP, I mean I was a shareholder, I shouldn't say I didn't own APA as a shareholder but I was part of that large behemoth animal that is corporate America and I loved it.

[00:00:27] But at a certain point I realized that it wasn't the right place for me for the rest of my life.

[00:00:34] And I started my business, I did that for about two years on the weekends quite frank.

[00:00:40] I didn't take any time away from ADP, I wasn't stealing time.

[00:00:43] I just I had a side hustle before it was called a side hustle but I just realized how much I loved it.

[00:00:50] All right, I want to talk to you for a moment about retaining and developing your workforce is hard recruiting is hard retaining top employees is hard.

[00:00:59] Then you've got onboarding payroll benefits time and labor management, you need to take care of your workforce and you can only do this successfully if you commit to transforming your employee experience.

[00:01:11] This is where I saw comes in they empower you to be successful we've seen it with a number of companies that we've worked with and this is why we partner with them here at work defined we trust them and you should too check them out at I solved H CM dot com.

[00:01:30] This way of thinking about it right and where this is inside the sweet we've got John on we're going to go into his story is journey.

[00:01:37] We're going to learn a bunch of things so John would you do us a favor and introduce yourself.

[00:01:42] Sure, well primarily I'm Will and Mao's dad they're my 16 and 14 year old children and I'm also happily married to my wife Emily will mostly happy happily married for 26 years you know how that's going.

[00:01:55] Let's give them a little bit.

[00:01:57] Yeah she just walked by and looked at me funny but but she'd say the same thing which is good you know how that is married 26 years two kids life.

[00:02:07] I am very much an avid golfer I love to golf that's my free time when I'm not spending time with my kids or working in I own two businesses currently one is a reverse osmosis water bending company and I started back in 20 2003 with a business partner mine.

[00:02:24] And then I also own willery which is a HR and payroll staffing firm and we also have a unique unique specialization in client side HR tech advisory and consulting.

[00:02:34] And oh by the way I did write a book that came out in October of 2023 and I've been on the speaking podcast tour and current stop is Ryan and William that's a little bit about me I'm 50 I just turned 50 in October.

[00:02:50] And I like the 50s 50s is good they're good 50s and 40. Yeah I agree. I only had a couple of months let's come back. No no it really is 50s and 40s 100% when you say Ryan asked me in a decade if I like the 50s and I think that would use 60s 60s to do 50 right.

[00:03:07] It might be the new 40 by that time 60s to do 40 so willery is a combination of your two children's name if I remember correctly.

[00:03:18] Right will have a will 16 year old son and Mallory my 14 year old daughter that was the convincing part to my wife in the next of the recession.

[00:03:29] I want to quit my firm and start a business on my own you're crazy. I'm not working right now.

[00:03:36] We have two we have two kids that are under the age of two and my next sales pitch was I'll name it after the kids and she I think she said yes I think I heard yes in my mind I don't know if she actually said yes but I just I went with it.

[00:03:49] That's fantastic so where did you start what did tell us a little bit about where you grew up.

[00:03:58] I grew up in a small town called Doyle's town Ohio it's it's south west of Cleveland by about 35 to 40 miles is probably a crow would fly.

[00:04:10] And I was the youngest of four kids my mom called me the gift my dad called me the mistake that was an interesting conversation love them both very much and I have an older oldest brothers 10 years older Tony lives out west.

[00:04:25] Great great person love him to death my sister sister trees she's eight years older lives in Kaga Falls not too far away and then my brother Andy lives in Buffalo six years older.

[00:04:36] Hence my mom joke with me when she had to tell me a very intimate story about how I came into the earth.

[00:04:42] The method just didn't quite work out.

[00:04:47] Every three years I grew up Catholic yes and I learned very awkwardly what the rhythm method was I asked her.

[00:04:54] I regretted asking my mom that question never ask that question ever ask it I grew up Catholic same thing my parents were Catholic and I'm Catholic my kids Catholic wise Catholic the whole bit but I was six years after my oldest brother my two oldest brothers so six and seven years respectively

[00:05:13] and I was a gift or the state depending on your purpose perspective.

[00:05:20] Yes same literally the same bit same bit funny it's funny it's my mom told me that story because when when she got pregnant with me my dad was apparently pretty upset.

[00:05:33] I was like how we were done with this three kids within four years of time or whatever the math was.

[00:05:38] I figured out white picket fence and everything and then along I along comes John and the cool part is my siblings would probably tell you if they were on the show that I was blessed to have the closest relationship with my dad because he mellowed as he got older 100%

[00:05:54] he was way into golf and I played a thousand rounds of golf with my dad and my siblings would be jealous of how much time I got to spend with my dad because while they were growing up he was working his tail off running a regional hospital in the stress of all that

[00:06:12] he liked to have fun play golf and work in his garden and I got a lot of time with I got more time with my dad I would say than my older siblings did even though they're older than I am.

[00:06:23] Yeah same thing my dad went back to school when I was at Alabama and we drive in together so he quit after 35 years will be with warehousing and said he wanted to be a teacher.

[00:06:39] So we went back and got a teaching certificate and it was at the same time I was good man to grab.

[00:06:43] And so literally we just drive in together because we were both there all day so it's like why use two cars to park in spaces so we drive in together and he go on his way to education I'd go on my way to art and it was hilarious because then we talk later in the day just come by where I worked or to work to the library and he just come by and say hey what are you doing?

[00:07:03] Check it out and check it out books.

[00:07:08] Not a real different setup here dad.

[00:07:10] My dad might agree to work at that.

[00:07:13] Not a big thing but I can relate because my dad both well I would say both he mellowed but also my brothers had completely beat them down.

[00:07:24] You know they'd worn them out just completely worn them out and so he was mountain more mellow but also by the time I came around he was like okay you know what I've been through this to with a two other boys.

[00:07:37] Go do the things you have to do and you know we'll figure it out later so that's cool that's good that's good.

[00:07:43] You remind me of a funny story my dad while I'm actually looking at how I misspelled my own name at the bottom of the Riverside app.

[00:07:51] I would just say that I would really want to say that no it's okay literally I'm listening to you and I'm just and I pick my name up like wait a second.

[00:08:00] It's okay William Orion and I'm like wait a second they didn't misspell it I did my dad had had a had a had a so sorry if you want to know how to spell my name you can hit me up at john wily dot com nobody probably really cares but at our family reunions my dad would have all of us individually pronounce our last name.

[00:08:19] And we would get around seven different variations 100% and and we asked my dad which one is right and he said I don't know whichever.

[00:08:29] I was Bernada vitz Bernada witz Bernada bitch it was it was it was a lot of different variation what's the ethnic background what is the Polish Polish yes and it used to be Bernada witz the V.

[00:08:43] It's an Alice. Yeah there's a couple Bernada witzes and eerie PA I saw them in a phone book.

[00:08:50] Right today I'll hold I am about 20 years ago exactly what's a phone book.

[00:08:55] And I heard there were Bernada witzes and then I didn't I didn't I didn't want to creep on them show up but I've never the only Bernada bitches are literally related to to me there.

[00:09:05] Right you've read you're probably haven't visited Cleveland but on the west side well both sides it's it's like New York there's an east side in the west side basically they'll have added by the river.

[00:09:17] And on the west side the ethnic communities there's pockets likes like slow box and like literally there's Polish community there's all kinds of it's fantastic and it's obviously changed over time.

[00:09:32] But it's like you can drive over there and well I said you're in a Polish neighborhood or you're in a Czechoslovakian neighborhood you're in this neighborhood like on the east side where I was there was little Italy.

[00:09:44] It was actually real close to case and so you could go down the little Italy and it was little Italy like back I can see it be even more little way back in the day but it was it was fantastic.

[00:09:56] For me being able to drive over to the west side and actually just go go we would go pub to pub and just kind of see different people hang out with different groups of people is fantastic.

[00:10:08] My parents are both from Parma that's that's that's yeah predominant Polish hangout and known for the pierogi's Ryan if you ever if you ever want.

[00:10:17] Love me some don't dole potatoes with some water onions oh my gosh like I think dying and going to Polish heaven I can tell you that oh yeah that's legit and my kids like to that's probably the best thing about them.

[00:10:31] So where did you go to caught would you do is there a lot of pressure go the Ohio State or would no yeah the story goes I we grew up in Doyle town my oldest brother Tony went all the way through Doyle town high school my dad decided then to send.

[00:10:46] His my two middle siblings to a private school and turns out that's they they were a dominant basketball football program my brother had a great time there.

[00:10:58] And so being Saint Vincent St Mary the home of LeBron James oh yeah knows actually yeah watch it on TV and my dad my dad had a buddy of his that would own the big lumber yard in Doyle's town Ohio called Gail House and Gail House decided very interesting as I look back

[00:11:15] as a CEO what a unique pivot they were in the business of construction supplies they they provide all the wood and the materials for all the construction companies.

[00:11:25] Primarily in Ohio in Northeast Ohio well they decided that they were going to get into the construction business let's compete with our customers was unique and my dad was buddies with the owner and I assume over some bottle of something my dad was in the house.

[00:11:44] My dad was convinced to subsidize and got it as he called it a great deal to build a house three times the size of the house that I grew up in although my siblings had all gone to college.

[00:11:57] I told you the math six years is right around the time I was in eighth grade and eighth grade my my closest brother and age was at Miami University my dad comes to tell me hey we're we're moving to bath Ohio.

[00:12:10] Okay we start building a house it was cool that whole experience it was I was just along for the ride and as we he was literally drove me to very first day of school November first 1987 I remember it because it changed my life for a couple reasons number number one I asked him in the car ride I said I'm still going to St. V right because that's that's where my brother went who I idolize and I had some buddies that were on the golf team

[00:12:35] and he said no matter if there was no discussion no you know how much I pay in taxes in bath I'm getting the best use out of that tax money okay well it was really there was really it was not there was no no just it was just it was it was a one it was a question with an answer there's no no rebuttal

[00:12:56] you asked I asked he answered yeah and that as it turns out that very first day two two things happened at that first day of school I sat at the popular kids table at lunch because I didn't have any friends and as you milled around between periods everyone was BS and with their buddies I went I went B line to the cafeteria and I just sat down I sat down at the popular kids table

[00:13:20] and the most popular kid in our school his name is Khan Pran tonight is I hope he's listening because he changed my life he made the choice to put his arm around me and say hey welcome to our new school who are you what your deal go ahead and stay otherwise he could have had his three buddies

[00:13:35] easily throw early in the in the toilet and my my life would have gone you know south from there I tried out for the basketball team a few months a few few weeks after that but the second really cool thing that happened

[00:13:47] I got on the school bus to ride home that very first day of school when I met my wife didn't know it at the time but sat next to what I described as the cutest tallest blonde that was my general age range and I plot my butt right down next to receipt and five six years later she she came around

[00:14:05] to the idea of tolerating me as a friend and yes I I wore her down later to date me and then like I said 26 years later here happily married most of the time wow that is fantastic did you play on the golf team in high school

[00:14:19] I did I played in the golf team of revier four times we went to state I get to see the because my kids go there they have the banners up in the right in the high school for our state

[00:14:28] participation I was all state golfer and then I got a scholarship to play at Kent State University for her page who is a legend legendary golf coach Canada he recruited Ben Curtis and there's a number of other players that are on the PGA tour now from Canada Corey Conner's Mackenzie Hughes

[00:14:48] and John Mills John Mills is actually the new golf coach at Kent but I played there had a blast was an academic all American thought about being professional golfer for about a week

[00:14:59] and then did you go to school did that was a humbling experience I want to turn them in Indiana I beat a bunch of

[00:15:08] yes his dad is that answered it said no no I asked my if I asked my dad he was said yes absolutely that that was that that would have been history that that was yes yes yes but I I want to turn in Indiana beat beat some pretty prominent players and for about well for the car ride home

[00:15:28] I was thinking of turning pro and I had a again a lifelong buddy of me the buddy of mine that's that I still hang out with today was went with me to Indiana and he he said you're capable but I don't think I don't think it's I don't think it's a good choice you're going to spend a ton of money and

[00:15:46] ton of resources and a ton of time and then how I ended up making the decision to not be a professional golfer is I asked every my junior and senior year at Kent we played with the best schools in the country or

[00:16:00] top 20 program played against Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson David Duval and you name it top top shelf golfers Hall of Famers now and every person I asked Ryan and William every player that I asked what are you doing after school

[00:16:15] I'm going to try I'm I'm I'm turn pro I'm gonna try turn a pro and I did the math on my head after that same response is always so it's not

[00:16:25] that I was better than about 50 of them right and I wasn't better than 79 of them which I knew I had to be better than everyone I met everyone I played with

[00:16:36] and I wasn't right my closest comparison there's a buddy of mine who's on the PGA tour Ryan armor we played high school and college golf he went to Ohio State he's the only guy comparing my talent

[00:16:52] to his same stature general just a grinder good good iron player he won a PGA tournament when he was 40-ish wow he grinded playing golf his entire adult life right and he made it

[00:17:08] and I'm sure he's super happy I see I see him on Facebook and all this stuff but it's that that is a absolute 1000 percent grind I don't know if you watch full swing on Netflix oh yeah the greatest players in the world are actually they are so fragile because of the game

[00:17:25] oh 100% Rory Scotty Sheffler Joel Damon especially I mean he's a total fat the case I mean I love to watch him because he's a genuine but the game you remember you remember Ian Baker Fitch right oh yeah he got the Yips and putting and just never was the same but before that dude he was a top 10 like you could count on him because he was just he was a not robotic but he was just good and then he lost his butter

[00:17:53] and David do all at one point same thing but again I guess when people are planning it's tiger especially that first first decade that had to be so intimidating that you could show up with your a game and still lose

[00:18:09] yeah no he was well they they talk about all the time how just uniquely special I do have a tiger wood story probably would appreciate oh let's go when I was 18 he was 16 I'm two years older than him and we played we played an

[00:18:23] tournament together called the western junior it was 75th anniversary of the western junior which it's the second largest other than the amateur

[00:18:32] yes yes you know you know you know when you're you're you're there no my well my brothers on the board of the southern which is right after the western

[00:18:40] yes we've talked about this before that's right and anyway tigers in this tournament and I heard of them but it was the first time that I felt like I played in a tournament

[00:18:52] because most of the terms were on the west coast and I was from Ohio he came to the western junior because it was the 75th anniversary

[00:18:58] and the finals of the tournament were being hosted at Chicago golf club which is a top 10 or 15 golf course in the country it's an incredible incredible play I didn't I didn't sign up for the tournament

[00:19:11] because of that I just signed up because it was a great tournament anyway the way they do it is they get 250 kids and you play two rounds of golf on two different

[00:19:20] courses one of them was at cog hill which they've hosted a pga tour event and then the final six the top 64 players get seated in just like the NCAA tournament like March madness

[00:19:31] and I get seated in I qualify so does tiger and we go to Chicago golf club and I just found my game and I won my first match second match third match

[00:19:43] I'm in the elite eight technically third or fourth match can remember can remember the exact number and it's in between rounds we were playing 36 holes

[00:19:53] morning round was was one match and then we played in the afternoon and it's there's 20 people on the property there's eight golfers their caddies parents didn't go to these things

[00:20:04] not like modern day they didn't get in code because they sent me to shakago to live in a hotel and go figure it out the long behold a guy that I knew was buddies with tiger

[00:20:16] and said oh hey tiger you want to have lunch with my friend John if you win your match you're going to play him in the semi finals

[00:20:25] and on it's a god I sat there for 20 minutes with tiger woods and he didn't look at me or say a word to me oh it was all psychological warfare I mean it was just bizarre

[00:20:38] his dad his dad back then especially his dad was so much in his his ear and it was also psychological warfare I mean it was but on that tournament William I won my next match this semi finals Tiger lost

[00:20:54] I do have the so you be tiger woods in a golf tournament once yeah done and the funny part is the funny part is people say well were you eight and was he six I said do you know how good of a golfer Tiger Woods was it's your goal

[00:21:10] doesn't matter if he was 8 18 or 28 he was better than everybody else that is by a mile oh yeah it was pretty cool fun fun story

[00:21:21] so how'd you get from that to your first kind of leadership ownership kind of first kind of even management position what do you do how did you get from golf to that

[00:21:33] graduated from Kent yeah and I got a job with ADP right out of college and cried myself to sleep many a night wondering how in the world

[00:21:44] I get into this from college to making cold calls 70 80 90 of them a day oh yeah and I wasn't good at that at all I I second guest my choice I thought golf being a professional golfer seems easier than this

[00:21:59] I eventually figured that out had a had a cool run at ADP was in management and got promoted into their their national counts count space but about probably six years into my career at ADP I got bit by the entrepreneur bug I started my water vending company

[00:22:15] and I can say this now because I don't work there anymore but I was doing very well I was the top performer made their president's club but all I cared about was the first conversation with your wife where I'm going to do this or I'd like to do this thing

[00:22:31] and she looks at you a little bit crazy yes I literally was selling million dollar deals on the back in the early 2000s and I was more concerned about how do I get more people to put quarters in these water vending machines because I own the business I didn't own ADP I mean I was a shareholder I shouldn't say I didn't own AP as a shareholder but I was part of that large behemoth animal that is corporate America and I loved it

[00:23:00] but at a certain point I realized that it wasn't the right place for me for the rest of my life and I started my business I did that for about two years on the weekends quite frank I didn't take any time away from ADP I wasn't stealing time I just I had a side hustle before it was called a side hustle

[00:23:20] but I just realized how much I loved it I left the left ADP to start to join a boutique search firm and I did that for about four years and the midst of those four years we had both of our kids and then that's when the story I told my wife

[00:23:37] I really liked it I really liked it oh go ahead no no what were you specialized in the search were you specialized in HR

[00:23:45] we were an executive search firm yeah my partner we really did any kind of executive level search but I realized that the easier part for the business for me was HR and payroll

[00:23:58] because I had a network and that's where that's where my connections were that's where my community was and I did most of that work

[00:24:05] and I don't know if my partner was really into that he was more IT and sales and engineering and we very very amicably separated in roughly 2010

[00:24:16] and that's where I convinced my wife I got this great idea I can work from home I can be around the kids

[00:24:24] I can not I can be around to see the major events and if you know Ryan if I have told the same lies to our wife so we're going to log out or what I'm going to say

[00:24:32] I was very convincing my wife as a tough customer but she didn't want any part of it until the at least in my mind I can name

[00:24:40] I found there's a domain willery dot com because what's willery it's it's will and Mallory's names merged together

[00:24:46] you have a one by my name exactly and that was that was roughly 14 years ago this year

[00:24:54] that's so hard to believe what did you see as a market opportunity at the time like what was not being done in your mind

[00:25:00] because when you create a venture you're looking for a hole what is that market opportunity something that's being unmet

[00:25:07] or it's being done but it's not being done in a shot a shot away

[00:25:11] two main things number one having worked at any P I was in sales and it was interesting how great of a rapport

[00:25:20] and relationship we built with our prospects in the sales process and then they sign the contract

[00:25:26] everybody's excited we kick off and then as soon as implementation starts and they realize how much work they have to do

[00:25:33] and how much yes how much this is going to be an additional part time job on top of my full time job

[00:25:41] I did that enough and had people so frustrated with me enough that I realized that the formula doesn't work

[00:25:49] and it's still it's still that case some 20 years later and was obviously 20 years before what before I was doing it

[00:25:57] that combined with my experience in the executive search business when I was doing the HR and payroll related work

[00:26:03] there were no specialized firms no specialized firms at all in payroll none

[00:26:08] right and then there were just a few and when I say a few I mean two or three in the country

[00:26:14] that were hanging their hat on HR and I decided to combine those two experiences to build our firm

[00:26:22] we started off first as a search firm search contract staffing firm and then the consulting part came as we were doing more and more

[00:26:30] contract projects

[00:26:32] to success based after you do something well they're like hey what else can you do it it's like it leads to something else

[00:26:39] which led obviously probably to vendor selection because you didn't start there

[00:26:44] no one points someone says hey we're looking at let's just pick somebody ultimate or or seridian and ADP what do you think

[00:26:53] and you now have to walk them through the pros and cons of both

[00:26:57] I feel like you were there you were you were in the car at the time that I drove that appointment way

[00:27:02] yeah yeah yeah that's exactly how it happened we got our first vendor selection

[00:27:07] and then we were intimately involved in a number of implementation projects we've since become certified partners with a number of the large scale

[00:27:16] HR tech providers and the most unique part for me is is when they're asking us to be their partner

[00:27:23] not the reverse that was an arrival moment for me from a business standpoint you got these large global brands

[00:27:30] that you see sponsoring golf tournaments and you can do multi multi billion dollar businesses

[00:27:36] asking my little boutique firm to be a partner of theirs and in summer guards I'd say the tech partners have a variety of

[00:27:45] flavors of how they do that sort of partnership relationship I think one it shouldn't be as complimentary because they're asking everybody

[00:27:53] and in another end it's really complimentary because they're really vetting out a select few partners

[00:27:59] and that part's been really unique for us for me to observe as a business owner and see that that tech space evolve

[00:28:06] well it's in everybody's best interest if done well the client their client your client their the client gets used to it

[00:28:15] and if they get used to it adoption they get consumption and they get the most out of the software

[00:28:22] so it's it's everybody's best interest like there is an alignment here where there doesn't have to be

[00:28:27] and most of the staff software companies don't want headcount because that's the antithesis to Wall Street

[00:28:35] like that's not a good thing if they ever care about that

[00:28:38] so they need somebody to actually take care of their customer and get them to this place where they adopt

[00:28:44] and use the software that dare I say even love the software so that they remain sticky

[00:28:51] so if they can keep that lifetime value of the customer so that extends to whatever it extends to

[00:28:57] so like it's in everybody's best interest I think that the rub has historically been who pays for it

[00:29:04] but you know I'm saying like that's the story I don't know if it's still the same way

[00:29:09] no 100% correct it's it's fascinating to me it's it's really a resource constraint issue on both ends

[00:29:17] right partners as the as the as the HR tech software providers grow

[00:29:22] they get this scalability number that they end up reaching a point where they can't do it

[00:29:28] we can't keep up with the volume of implementations or the clients that we're acquiring

[00:29:34] and as a result we can't service you customer the same way we could when we were small and mighty

[00:29:40] right we just don't need started nine months

[00:29:42] yeah exactly we need a certified partner to help you

[00:29:46] and the client so like great is that part of our service arrangement and fee

[00:29:51] you know you got to pay extra for that and then on the client side same goes

[00:29:58] they've already shot their ward with the CFO at that point yeah yeah yeah

[00:30:02] and the and on the client side pre pre selection or even once they've selected it and they're an implementation

[00:30:09] okay we're going to put our project team together it's not like a group of people come from out of the

[00:30:14] in the parking lot that weren't did have nothing to do to do and then all of a sudden so oh you need a project

[00:30:19] done I'm going to do that I have resident expertise in HR payroll and benefits and time and recruiting no it's

[00:30:25] it's the recruiting manager it's a payroll manager it's the HR manager and then oh by the way hey you

[00:30:32] town acquisition lead you're good at project management right you can be the project manager

[00:30:36] and then all of them have a way we're not going to pay you any more money however and you don't have any

[00:30:41] experience however and you're not going to have any resources you good luck

[00:30:46] you can put on your resume and you can add it you can add it's a stretch assignment we can sell

[00:30:51] it as a stretch assignment and and you can do that job and then all of its

[00:30:57] nothing I was wondering why three to four to six weeks into this project

[00:31:02] were what sideways everything's coded yellow or red we're behind oh yeah and we don't know what to do left

[00:31:08] or they've left they've turned over got you yeah oh no they've got a better

[00:31:13] better job with no stretch goals Ryan this is this is very much a Jinx for Ryan's at the very

[00:31:18] end of Jinx so he's a he's a 78 so so but still a Jinx sorry

[00:31:26] you this is very much a Jinx thing I stretch a stretch assignment if you said stretch

[00:31:32] assignment to Jinz they'd look at you and literally say yeah no we had

[00:31:38] stretch assignments at IBM you did yeah well that makes sense that tracks actually I

[00:31:45] shouldn't I shouldn't be surprised by that's not sure not sure I did well or took

[00:31:51] them so okay so we're getting that we're getting a sense of where you're going because a lot

[00:31:56] of this is client lead you be successful at something then they say John can you

[00:32:01] and then you're like well let's take a look at it let's see if we have the people

[00:32:04] okay then you do that and you're successful that and you just kind of move around

[00:32:07] and just you have success if you don't have success the clients are gonna continue

[00:32:11] to ask you do stuff so I like I get that why why I would say in the hell but I won't

[00:32:18] would you write a book like what what first of all what's wrong with you and why do you

[00:32:27] I have really bad friends in Asia he wanted to go to William yeah you you I hang out

[00:32:34] with you first in stack it and then you banks and Steve Brown and I see all these people

[00:32:41] that I know it's this yeah yeah yeah really really bad friend picker that's what

[00:32:46] I am I think that that's that that's the immediate answer but the genuine true answer

[00:32:52] is in all sincerity I saw I saw all of you doing what you were doing and it's

[00:32:58] it's what it wasn't jealousy or copycat it was just if they can do it I can do

[00:33:02] it too and I looked at writing a book as being the ultimate professional challenge

[00:33:08] that's all there is to it I tell the story from the age of 20 I should say 19 my

[00:33:14] junior year of college till I was 47 I read one book and I went the two years of

[00:33:20] college in that I read who moved my cheese that's success right there because it was

[00:33:25] this all and it was 42 pages and read the bathroom we get it exactly I could

[00:33:31] someone told I could read it in less than an hour I'm nice like a most clean

[00:33:35] kid blanchored books done yeah I can do that okay I can't read I can't really

[00:33:40] read I don't read I don't like it my friends have done it which I think I know

[00:33:45] them well and they're regular guys and gals nothing special they're no different than

[00:33:50] me and then the the heartfelt part of the story is both my parents passed away

[00:33:55] in a short compressed time from about a year and you had one of those at 47 I

[00:34:00] had what am I going to do when I grow up what what have I not gotten accomplished

[00:34:04] in my life that I wanted to do that I didn't see your doing being being playing

[00:34:10] in a professional golf not being a professional golfer playing playing in a

[00:34:14] professional golf tournament was one of those things probably I know I want to make

[00:34:19] the sheer tour event William I'm going to try I'm trying my tail I could just

[00:34:23] turn 50 I'm going to try I don't know if I'm going to make it but I'm gonna try

[00:34:26] I have three attempts this summer okay and then I'll keep I'll keep at it that

[00:34:32] was one thing that was really more selfish for me that was that was the my

[00:34:36] dad would have loved that but it was I really love golf golf is my escape

[00:34:40] people think I'm weird I go I go to I relax when I golf I don't get stressed I'm

[00:34:44] the opposite of most golfers and then the other thing was I want to write a

[00:34:49] book because my mom was an artist she painted the mural behind me my dad was an

[00:34:54] executive in a hospital for 30 years a CEO and I thought to myself what's the

[00:35:01] unique what's the unique tribute I could do to both of them and I can't sing a

[00:35:05] song I can't dance a lick I can't play a musical instrument to save my life but

[00:35:11] I could I can write a wicked wicked email that's what I told myself I can write a

[00:35:15] really wicked email and if I could write thousand wicked emails I could turn it

[00:35:20] into a book and more or less what I did was I spent one year every weekend

[00:35:26] seven thirty to about nine thirty before my kids got up and I just wrote and

[00:35:31] lo and behold seventy some thousand words later in a sign contract with

[00:35:35] Schirm Books and a book launch in late October that's that's the answer of the

[00:35:41] question way most it was a very unique winding path to get to that point

[00:35:48] I have an S a Ryan I know you have questions hey why I do I do I'm just listening

[00:35:54] to the conversation today the I want to I want to go backwards a little bit

[00:35:59] and up until this point it seems like at least in our story it's all been success

[00:36:05] but I'm sure you've hit bumps along the road ran into a few walls here

[00:36:11] you guys snowman snowman on on on on on the eighth

[00:36:16] you talk about that type of success yeah success

[00:36:20] that you were talking golfing I made a snowman or two but it's painful when I do

[00:36:26] at the one during that's an eight yes on a golf which is which is a

[00:36:31] which is a band the bang anything higher than an eight is a bang of any any good

[00:36:34] golfers existence that's usually if you're playing with friends that just pick it

[00:36:37] up yeah just take your taking too long that just is not embarrassing yourself

[00:36:42] and slowing us up yeah to answer your question I made so many mistakes in my

[00:36:49] life and I've been fortunate to have a fair amount of success and I think I'm

[00:36:55] highly competitive yeah and I'd say the number one thing that I challenge

[00:37:01] have challenged with myself personally a profession I have a very short

[00:37:05] attention span and I have a complete lack of I

[00:37:10] complacency to me is is another C word cancer word and a business person's mindset

[00:37:17] and that's that's caused some unique personal challenges I have a psychologist

[00:37:24] psychiatrist therapist that I see about every quarter and I work through the

[00:37:30] challenges that that I deal with and trying like trying to keep my attention

[00:37:34] for the I've been 50 minutes is a lot yeah we're talking about stuff you like

[00:37:40] so you're asking me questions that I don't want to it's it's gonna be recorded

[00:37:44] and people are going to listen to it and they may say hey John I heard you on

[00:37:47] the show but if I'm in a meeting and and I can lose my attention span so fast

[00:37:53] and as a result I have maybe set a few things done a few things that in my

[00:38:01] life and how I treated people that I regret that's that's probably been my my

[00:38:05] biggest my biggest personal professional and then I'd also say that the

[00:38:13] one that probably stands out the most of just making making a mistake is that

[00:38:19] I was always willing to try things and I was I was I was willing to take a risk

[00:38:27] and with that risk I lost $150,000 on a deal that I was involved in an

[00:38:34] company that I started and would I like to have the $150,000 back and would

[00:38:38] that be $450,000 now if I had invested it the right way well yeah but I've

[00:38:44] I've never been a William brought it up early on I think before we even got to

[00:38:49] recording this idea of being a child at heart and I don't I'm not having

[00:38:55] regrets I don't want to I don't want to live my life and say I shoulda woulda

[00:39:00] coulda I I don't want that and as a result of that sometimes I will do some

[00:39:06] some regretfully stupid things that turn out to be bad decisions and maybe

[00:39:12] could have been thought through better but I don't live with regret

[00:39:17] currently which is a beautiful place to be any of those hiring decisions there

[00:39:24] were few there were few that we that we had and I think to to our credit in my

[00:39:30] firm we have done an incredible job as I see other companies that we work with

[00:39:35] we've really defined our culture what the purpose of our businesses the

[00:39:41] services we provide we're clear about what our core values are and we hire

[00:39:46] and recognize to them and we will also fire to them on occasion and I just

[00:39:52] don't see enough employers doing that with I'll call it steadfast just this is

[00:39:56] who we are these these are the rules of engagement and we're looking for

[00:40:00] people that of all walks of life that can play within the confines of our

[00:40:05] rules and I think that we're clients as well or partners oh yeah because I

[00:40:12] can see that applying to all aspects of the business right so if you're with a

[00:40:16] software vendor and they start to treat you in a way that is outside of your

[00:40:20] value system some people will hold on to this for a long time same thing with

[00:40:26] you know with a client and they'll stick with a client they're paying them a lot

[00:40:32] of money my good but it's toxic employees are going sideways we had a client

[00:40:39] 100 years ago we had a client that at one point or another my entire team came

[00:40:48] and sought me out that's probably drinking somewhere but yeah they sought me

[00:40:52] out and they're like we can't work with this person I'm like we is that the

[00:40:58] French Victorian we wait what are you talking about we they're like no none of us

[00:41:05] in the firm we've already done a poll we've talked to every single person and

[00:41:09] the interns no one's working with this client I'm like all right okay I'll take

[00:41:15] care I called the client I just said hey I love you I mean you and I are great

[00:41:22] because like we both operate the same way but none of my staff will work with

[00:41:27] you so like we've got to figure out a different way to do this because right now

[00:41:32] they're not going to answer your calls or emails because you're abusive and I

[00:41:40] abuse them but then again I pay them you can't you can't do that I mean if

[00:41:46] you want to pick another firm totally get it like I get it but like so I

[00:41:51] can see this being applied to all facets of the business I was told once by

[00:41:56] a entrepreneur buddy years and years and years ago you have not arrived as an

[00:42:01] entrepreneur until you fire a client it's paying you more than six figures 100% and

[00:42:07] where you put payroll on a visa or you've been or you've been you've been the

[00:42:13] lawsuit has been filed against you yes that's the entrepreneurship I'm not used

[00:42:18] to visa but I've put it yeah great financing yes all those things yes to all

[00:42:25] the money if we put it on our amics we're gonna get these many points I've had

[00:42:33] that's discovered yeah I've had to have that conversation with my wife a

[00:42:37] couple times that's a lot of fun so listen there's an upside here we should be

[00:42:41] doing this every month horrible just upside to amics are discovered not to anyone

[00:42:47] else no no it's a loss then so we got to writing a book what's next I mean I

[00:42:53] share money pressure you into like your next thing no no pressure from them

[00:42:58] they they have first read a refusal in the contract for the next book and I

[00:43:02] have actually I've actually storyboarded three other books that I want to write

[00:43:07] and I have about six presentation decks that and descriptions of presentations my

[00:43:14] my next thing William is is really to me the next book I'd like to write would be

[00:43:19] really centered on chapter 14 of H.O. like a boss which is the business plan for

[00:43:25] doing amazingly awesome HR and at the very top of it is having a

[00:43:29] purposeful commitment yeah I hate that I was scratch all that okay so terrible

[00:43:36] idea so here's what your next book should be about the relationship between golf

[00:43:42] and HR I've done a couple vlogs by that I've done a video stuff you got

[00:43:48] everybody then because you can go into you can go into talent you can go into

[00:43:53] recruitment you go into sourcing you can go into talent development learning like

[00:43:57] all the facets of HR applied through golfing how about we co-write that book I'm

[00:44:03] down well I got to check ppt there you go

[00:44:07] I'm not even writing seriously like who wouldn't love that book even people

[00:44:12] that don't like even people that don't love HR that they love golf that's an

[00:44:17] on-trade for them to understand what HR is so you got a whole audience that's

[00:44:23] outside of this that doesn't the fucking hate HR but now because they love golf

[00:44:29] you know like all the iconography can all be flags like all be famous flags from

[00:44:34] all the greatest golf courses around the world I love it all right I put that

[00:44:38] our storyboard that one too and you want outside of HR is probably not reading a book

[00:44:43] about HR regardless no but if it's about golf if you tie it back into the

[00:44:47] lessons learned about golf through the lens of HR they'll read it golfers read

[00:44:53] man not John but other golfers most golfers I read now I read now what I didn't

[00:44:58] before yeah yeah I'm just kidding of course to write whatever book you want

[00:45:03] you are love Ryan like he like put his hands over his eyes wait let's tell

[00:45:09] this guy to not write the book that he just tell you you let him cut him off and

[00:45:13] say no terrible idea because you said it you said I'm competitive I don't like

[00:45:23] complacently complacency and in those two things I thought those are the best

[00:45:28] great those are the best HR leaders of the world those two things they're

[00:45:33] competitive and are not complacent yeah if UKG or Workday's paying them a whole

[00:45:40] shit ton of money to write it and you're going to sponsor it on the tour all

[00:45:44] sponsors do go and look at their websites they all all of those folks that

[00:45:48] you just worked in UKG for sure but also other companies they sponsor golfers

[00:45:52] maybe not on the tour but they have different golfers man like this is a match

[00:45:57] made in heaven got you I'll work I'll work that great idea you can you can write

[00:46:03] the forward to it how's that when done done okay perfect I mean so you heard

[00:46:10] it here first people my brother is a scratch golfer and a high school golf

[00:46:16] coach and he explained golfing to me this way he said when you're out on a

[00:46:21] round there's gonna be a moment where you're telling yourself where you want

[00:46:27] this little ball to go and then you do it and then Elvis said you feel it in

[00:46:32] your if you in your soul it goes all the way through the club and it goes into

[00:46:36] your soul and you feel this feeling you might not feel that feeling again for

[00:46:41] that round you might not feel that feeling everywhere but once you feel that

[00:46:47] feeling you're addicted to it and I found that true I found that true John this

[00:46:53] has been fantastic thank you so much just for your personality and what you do in

[00:46:58] the market and Andrew book and all those things by the way Ryan and Ryan and I

[00:47:02] need to get signed copies all this stuff yes see you here no there thank you for

[00:47:07] being on the show this has been fantastic