Empowering Women in Leadership: Kendra Cato’s Journey to Authenticity

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[00:01:11] We're back and we're ready to roll.

[00:01:14] I dropped Ryan off the airport yesterday at like 15 minutes before the flight was taken.

[00:01:20] It was like 30 minutes.

[00:01:21] It was like 30 minutes.

[00:01:23] And then I didn't look at my phone, I'm like, eh, I hope it worked out.

[00:01:28] Meanwhile, my camera's in his car.

[00:01:30] That's where I found it.

[00:01:30] Not joking, by the way.

[00:01:32] Not joking.

[00:01:33] So, so, can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[00:01:36] What are you doing these days?

[00:01:38] Yeah, so I'm keeping myself busy.

[00:01:41] I just accepted a new role with Advanced Partners, leading our strategic partnerships program,

[00:01:46] building it actually, which I'm really, really excited about.

[00:01:49] My inner artist and inner nerd loves creating and building.

[00:01:53] And so working with Advanced Partners to launch that program and leading women of

[00:01:59] color and staffing along with Deliber Wesley to just continue to uplift women of color

[00:02:04] and just get our industry out there as really a viable choice for women of color.

[00:02:10] And continue to work with my fellow co-authors from Together We Rise.

[00:02:15] And yeah, we're starting on a second book.

[00:02:18] So working with the publisher to make that happen.

[00:02:21] I love that.

[00:02:22] So first of all, Advanced Partners, what do you do?

[00:02:25] What does the company do?

[00:02:26] Yeah, so Advanced Partners, what was so appealing about this opportunity to me is that it really

[00:02:32] champions next level staffing firms growth.

[00:02:35] So whether it's through payroll funding, whether it's through back office solutions, strategic

[00:02:39] business coaching, they're just 100% dedicated to the staffing industry.

[00:02:44] And so I'm really passionate about putting people to work.

[00:02:47] I'm passionate about the power of people.

[00:02:49] And in order to do that, we need to have the funding so that we can have that confidence

[00:02:54] to say yes to those real opportunities that firms have.

[00:02:57] In your position in strategic partnerships, what type of partnerships are you looking

[00:03:01] for?

[00:03:02] What's the goal there?

[00:03:03] Oh my goodness, the goal is just to, well, one, to enhance Advanced Partners product

[00:03:08] and service offering, right?

[00:03:10] That's one.

[00:03:11] We really want to up-level the client experience.

[00:03:14] And I want to just bring together a kind of diverse and innovative set of partners

[00:03:20] that can answer questions and provide solutions for whatever our clients are facing.

[00:03:27] That is definitely the goal.

[00:03:29] And to help up-level our industry again, to be, you know, so folks understand that we

[00:03:33] really are a vital contributor to the economy.

[00:03:35] So let's go backwards.

[00:03:38] All right.

[00:03:38] What did you, in high school-ish, what did you want to, what did you want to

[00:03:43] bake?

[00:03:43] What was the dream?

[00:03:44] Oh well.

[00:03:46] I always wanted to be an interior designer.

[00:03:51] And a news anchor.

[00:03:52] Those were my two, and I was convinced I was going to do both of them at the same

[00:03:55] time because what?

[00:03:56] Of course, yeah.

[00:03:57] Yeah.

[00:03:57] I need an interior designer.

[00:03:59] Yes, he does.

[00:04:01] So feel free to take a snapshot and tell me what to do here.

[00:04:04] Yes, absolutely.

[00:04:05] You send me the space and I will send suggestions.

[00:04:08] He looks like he's in an interrogation room.

[00:04:10] That's what I am.

[00:04:11] I am.

[00:04:12] I basically am in a...

[00:04:13] Full-width set program.

[00:04:14] Exactly.

[00:04:16] That's actually funny.

[00:04:17] I'm going to use that now.

[00:04:19] That's so true.

[00:04:19] It is.

[00:04:20] How's what's that?

[00:04:21] How you doing?

[00:04:22] You okay?

[00:04:23] Good.

[00:04:23] I'm going to tell you what, I'm going to send you a photo and we'll hold it to this.

[00:04:27] Yes.

[00:04:27] We're not publishing this until you send me a design.

[00:04:30] No, no, no.

[00:04:32] So interior design, and that came first?

[00:04:36] Yes, that came first.

[00:04:38] I'm always an artist.

[00:04:39] I still paint.

[00:04:40] Right?

[00:04:40] I still have friends send me photos and ask for advice or call me, FaceTime me from Creighton

[00:04:47] Barrel because they need help on picking a sofa.

[00:04:50] So it's just a passion of mine that I continue to love.

[00:04:53] And I even went back and got my associates probably 10, 15 years ago so I could understand

[00:04:58] why I loved it.

[00:04:59] I'm a big believer of understanding and knowing your why and took me years to understand

[00:05:05] that that's what it was but I paid thousands of dollars to understand that.

[00:05:10] No regrets there.

[00:05:12] And then being a news anchor, I just thought that it was such a glamorous role and that

[00:05:18] we were seeing more and more women.

[00:05:20] You know, I'm in my mid-40s so seeing more and more women on the television screen

[00:05:24] and in their power suits and talking about the problems and issues that the world

[00:05:28] is facing, I wanted to be a part of that and try to make a difference.

[00:05:33] Did you make it to TV?

[00:05:36] Were you on TV as a reporter or anchor?

[00:05:39] No actually.

[00:05:40] I studied journalism off through school and the closest I made it to television was on

[00:05:47] HGTV for a single episode of a competition show.

[00:05:52] Oh you got to tell us about that.

[00:05:54] You can't just drop, I was on a competition show.

[00:05:57] No it was called White Room Challenge and we didn't know what we were exciting up for

[00:06:04] and that day we discovered we had to design rooms around candy.

[00:06:08] I think Hershey sponsored it or something.

[00:06:10] And yes, so yeah we each designed a room and I was really proud of my design.

[00:06:16] I didn't win but it was an exciting experience for sure.

[00:06:21] No news anchor for me.

[00:06:23] Those things are rigged.

[00:06:24] You know how it is.

[00:06:27] No, the fellow that won did an amazing job.

[00:06:32] That's hilarious.

[00:06:33] Have you found the episode on YouTube or anything like that?

[00:06:36] No but one of my mentees did and then shared it with us.

[00:06:40] Now I'm going to have to go look.

[00:06:42] I didn't know it was out in the ether.

[00:06:45] I thought it just lived on a DVD.

[00:06:46] That's how long ago it was.

[00:06:47] No, everything is out there.

[00:06:53] So walk us through this.

[00:06:55] You wanted to interior design, you wanted to be a TV anchor, news anchor.

[00:06:59] Where did you go from here when you realized I'm not going to make it as an anchor?

[00:07:04] Where did you go?

[00:07:05] Well I didn't, I hadn't even decided that.

[00:07:07] I just wasn't sure if the environment was for me and as like you know sounded good

[00:07:15] when I was 18 and as I got into my early 20s I just realized that maybe I wasn't

[00:07:19] cut out for that environment.

[00:07:21] And so I wanted to continue to learn and I wanted to get my MBA.

[00:07:27] So that was my next decision and I remember calling my dad all excited.

[00:07:31] I had a list of three or four schools I was going to apply to and his response,

[00:07:34] and again my father was the best cheerleader.

[00:07:38] Definitely not a dream killer in any sense of the word but when I said this he said

[00:07:43] baby do you have MBA money?

[00:07:48] No, no I do not.

[00:07:50] Daddy that's why I'm calling you.

[00:07:52] Yeah exactly right.

[00:07:54] So no, that's what I realized I was best just getting a gig in business and learning

[00:08:01] business that way which I did and so glad I did.

[00:08:05] What was the first gig out of college?

[00:08:09] So gosh my first rollout of college was for a PR firm.

[00:08:14] Hated it.

[00:08:14] That makes sense.

[00:08:17] Hated it and wanted to work more directly with people versus brands and figured that out pretty

[00:08:22] quickly and then I got into M&A work.

[00:08:25] I had moved to Chicago and thought I had a job, didn't.

[00:08:29] That's not a story for this podcast we can talk about that offline.

[00:08:33] Did not have a job and then turned around and...

[00:08:37] But hold on you can't just drop that.

[00:08:40] You thought you had a job?

[00:08:42] Like a lit?

[00:08:43] Like you thought you had a job?

[00:08:44] The moving truck was pulling out of the driveway.

[00:08:46] I just like an interview with the Nigerian Prince and then got there and they weren't there?

[00:08:51] Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:52] That would be even, that would be a thing.

[00:08:55] What did you do your PR stunt?

[00:08:57] Did you do it?

[00:08:57] In Cleveland.

[00:08:58] Yeah I was in Cleveland so I lived at home for just under a year to save money.

[00:09:03] I knew I wanted to move to Chicago.

[00:09:05] That was decided.

[00:09:07] So I saved money.

[00:09:09] You know I probably had three or four grand in the bank and you couldn't tell me

[00:09:12] anything.

[00:09:13] I thought I was ready for the real world.

[00:09:17] I got the same.

[00:09:18] Yeah I got the same.

[00:09:19] Now what, because I did internships at Ligastash Hour, Wise Advertising and I actually did an

[00:09:28] internship at Ogilvy and Gray.

[00:09:33] I think it was Gray Advertising at the time.

[00:09:35] So was it a boutique or was it fully integrated?

[00:09:40] It was fully integrated.

[00:09:43] You know what you should know?

[00:09:45] You should know that you should know podcasts.

[00:09:48] That's what you should know because then you'd be in the know on all things that are timely

[00:09:53] and topical.

[00:09:54] Subscribe to the You Should Know podcast.

[00:09:58] Thanks.

[00:09:59] Interesting.

[00:10:00] We might know some of the same people.

[00:10:01] We probably do.

[00:10:03] Interesting.

[00:10:04] It's small, I mean it's a big city but it's a small advertising in PR community.

[00:10:10] Agreed.

[00:10:11] Agreed.

[00:10:12] I hated PR but for different reasons.

[00:10:17] Only I couldn't pull the levers like it wouldn't work and you got above the fold, the Wall Street

[00:10:23] Journal right?

[00:10:25] It was life changing.

[00:10:27] Yeah.

[00:10:27] But I couldn't make that happen.

[00:10:31] Like I could put up a billboard.

[00:10:33] Yep.

[00:10:34] But I couldn't, that's the frustrating part for me in PR is I couldn't actually make

[00:10:41] the levers work.

[00:10:43] So it was frustrating so anyhow I got out for that reasons.

[00:10:49] So I understand that bit.

[00:10:51] Yeah, I tried it though.

[00:10:52] You tried it?

[00:10:53] You're in Chicago.

[00:10:55] You think you have a job?

[00:10:56] You don't have a job?

[00:10:57] Now what?

[00:10:58] So now I go take a smile and dial sales roll for a boutique M&A firm and they really

[00:11:05] did valuation work.

[00:11:06] It was really their gig.

[00:11:07] And I was terrible at it.

[00:11:13] But I knew that across the hall they had two sections right?

[00:11:17] The cross on the other side of the building that they had the valuation team and they

[00:11:22] had editors, you know what I mean?

[00:11:25] I was sniffing around understanding how the business was built and so I kept striking

[00:11:30] up conversations with folks by the bathroom in the kitchen because I was the only space

[00:11:34] we shared.

[00:11:34] And was able to have someone interview me and take a chance on me and let me come on as editor.

[00:11:42] And so I started business writing.

[00:11:45] And that is where my career really began.

[00:11:48] Actually my career began when I realized I was terrible at smiling and dialing.

[00:11:52] I think most people don't like that.

[00:11:57] That's all rejection management.

[00:11:59] That's the people that are really good at consuming rejection.

[00:12:02] Yeah.

[00:12:03] 22 year old me was not really good.

[00:12:06] So this is where the career kind of shot off.

[00:12:11] So before we go forward there, I want to go back a little bit to when you called your

[00:12:15] father.

[00:12:16] So he said I want to go get an MBA.

[00:12:18] So before we get to the good part of everything, how did you handle that?

[00:12:23] So you're kind of like okay, my idea.

[00:12:25] Just the next step.

[00:12:26] No good.

[00:12:27] How do you process that?

[00:12:29] Yeah, because I'm sure a lot of people that are listening now may or may not be going into

[00:12:32] but we do have somewhat of a younger demographic that listened to this.

[00:12:37] And I think curiosity on their part would be should I invest in an MBA or should I just

[00:12:43] go forward and get experience?

[00:12:44] So maybe talk about that a little bit.

[00:12:46] I think there's no right answer there.

[00:12:49] I also am incredibly grateful that I went and got life experience because I was working

[00:12:56] at that firm, the doors closed and I went and started interviewing.

[00:13:01] And next thing I know I was helping build a business.

[00:13:03] I would have never had that opportunity.

[00:13:05] I would have been reading and learning and researching about building a business had

[00:13:08] I not just knocked on doors and took a step forward.

[00:13:14] So again no right answer.

[00:13:16] I still daydream at times like oh maybe I'll go back or do one of those executive

[00:13:20] programs something like that which is always an option.

[00:13:24] And so yeah I say if you're in your 20s just go out there and figure shit out.

[00:13:29] You can go back and add more education.

[00:13:33] I got a lot of time.

[00:13:35] A lot of time in your 20s to make a decision.

[00:13:38] Exactly.

[00:13:39] Exactly.

[00:13:39] One of the three or four schools, who are you looking at?

[00:13:42] Oh my goodness I was looking at Kellogg, looking at DePaul again I knew I wanted

[00:13:47] to be in Chicago and Loyola.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:52] Okay.

[00:13:53] You wanted to be in Chicago.

[00:13:55] I wanted to be in Chicago so it was very straightforward.

[00:13:58] Right.

[00:13:59] I originally when I was younger I thought I wanted to move to New York and I love

[00:14:03] New York for my New Yorkers out there.

[00:14:05] I visit a couple times a year.

[00:14:06] I would have, it would have eaten me up, swallowed me whole.

[00:14:10] Same thing.

[00:14:10] This whole girl from Ohio yeah it wasn't, I'm so glad I landed in Chicago.

[00:14:15] Yeah in Chicago it's still a tough city.

[00:14:18] It is a tough city as well.

[00:14:21] That's fantastic.

[00:14:23] So business writing was easy for you because of your journalism degree you learned how to

[00:14:29] you learned how to write fast.

[00:14:32] Yeah it was and it was easy in a sense too that the CEOs that I was talking to in interviewing

[00:14:39] for the valuation reports they didn't know they were talking to a 22-23 year old

[00:14:43] little black girl.

[00:14:44] They had no idea because this is before LinkedIn or social media so I you know

[00:14:49] you have great phone voice.

[00:14:51] I was able to execute on those interviews and I was really effective in that role.

[00:14:55] What I wasn't so great at was when they, when I earned a promotion and was now senior editor

[00:15:02] and had a small team it was like another writer and two analysts and that I wasn't

[00:15:10] so great at management.

[00:15:11] I had to figure that out.

[00:15:12] Thankfully my team loved me because I was fiercely protective of them and their

[00:15:16] time and so as far as our bosses went I was always representing them and sticking

[00:15:22] up for them and you know passionate about it.

[00:15:26] So I had that going for me but I didn't understand how to bring the best out of the people

[00:15:32] that I was leading and I had to learn that.

[00:15:34] I really had to learn that.

[00:15:35] I wanted people to do things the way I wanted them done because I thought my way made

[00:15:39] the most sense and sometimes it still does make the most sense but that's not the point.

[00:15:44] In your mind it always makes the most sense.

[00:15:47] No sometimes.

[00:15:48] Sometimes.

[00:15:49] I see, I tell this to William all the time like why don't you understand what I'm saying

[00:15:53] and he just like he gives me the look and I'm like, yeah, all right.

[00:15:58] I'm just going to stop talking.

[00:15:59] I don't understand the words coming out of your mouth.

[00:16:02] Yeah.

[00:16:03] But this is actually a real challenge that we have a lot of conversations about this

[00:16:08] Kendra where the I guess battlefield promotions or you do really, really well you get promoted

[00:16:15] but you're not always going to translate into a great manager of people.

[00:16:19] Right?

[00:16:20] And that's kind of what you were experiencing and so I think some of the challenges a

[00:16:24] lot of the challenges people face is how do I learn?

[00:16:27] What do I do?

[00:16:28] Right?

[00:16:28] So how did you do that?

[00:16:29] How did you learn?

[00:16:30] What did you do?

[00:16:31] What position did you put yourself in to get better at this?

[00:16:34] Well before I knew what the term 360 was I don't even know if it existed then.

[00:16:39] I had had an issue with one of my people and I sat down and asked them for feedback and he

[00:16:46] was a little bashful about it at first.

[00:16:48] Because you wanted to give him feedback?

[00:16:51] No, no, no.

[00:16:52] I just could tell he was frustrated and I was like, you know, he's my top performer.

[00:16:57] This was an incredible analyst.

[00:16:59] Okay.

[00:16:59] I thought she was looking for a way to get rid of him.

[00:17:02] 100%.

[00:17:02] She just like, that's it right there.

[00:17:04] That's the reason.

[00:17:05] Give me feedback.

[00:17:07] So that you open that door.

[00:17:09] I'm gonna do you a fire hose.

[00:17:11] No, that was not it at all.

[00:17:14] Okay.

[00:17:14] So I asked him for feedback and he was very bashful at first and so I said how about you

[00:17:20] just give me three pieces of feedback in an email and I'll ask everyone else to do

[00:17:25] the same.

[00:17:26] So that way he didn't feel like it was just him.

[00:17:29] And I still wonder some days if they had like a little meeting after work that day

[00:17:34] over a beer.

[00:17:35] 100%.

[00:17:35] Let's tell her some things and it was wonderful because there was a pattern and it was so fixable.

[00:17:45] It was so fixable.

[00:17:47] And I remember one of the things was that I didn't let them think things through themselves.

[00:17:54] You know, we feel like you give us some autonomy and then you start what is it called nitpicking

[00:18:00] or micromanaging?

[00:18:02] Micromanaging.

[00:18:03] Thank you.

[00:18:03] So and it was true.

[00:18:05] You know, I'm a very particular person, especially when I was younger, you know, grief and things

[00:18:11] have helped me expand my perception about control.

[00:18:16] But at that time, I felt like I was helping and not realizing I was preventing them from

[00:18:20] putting their ideas out there or growing.

[00:18:22] And I wanted that.

[00:18:23] And so that was that that one really stuck with me.

[00:18:27] It still does because I realized that I also had was micromanaging my own life.

[00:18:31] And I took that inward and sort of applying it there to like personal life.

[00:18:37] So yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:18:39] Yeah, got it.

[00:18:40] And so I was like, I have to release some of this need for that control.

[00:18:46] And my father had a sermon that you can't accept your blessings when you're at this

[00:18:52] is holding on tight to what you think you have or what you need.

[00:18:55] But you got to let it go so you can get those blessings.

[00:18:57] And I remember calling him on the way home from work and I cried a little bit.

[00:19:02] Like I could be cool about it 20 something years later, but I cried a little bit.

[00:19:06] And I was like, I think they hate me.

[00:19:08] And he's like, let's talk through the feedback you got again.

[00:19:11] And that's what he said.

[00:19:12] He's like, I think you have an amazing team, Kendra.

[00:19:15] It sounds like you really care.

[00:19:16] They know you care.

[00:19:18] And now you know what they're asking for me.

[00:19:20] So if you just let go, maybe the blessings will double.

[00:19:24] And he was right.

[00:19:25] Like I watched them flourish to and I also had to accept that we were doing so

[00:19:30] well, my top analysts moved on to a bigger, better firm.

[00:19:34] And I, you know, was really proud of that and retrospect.

[00:19:38] Right? At first it was so scary, but I was super, super proud of that.

[00:19:41] Some managers are they want to keep that talent.

[00:19:44] Yeah.

[00:19:45] Right.

[00:19:45] They want to keep that talent.

[00:19:48] But you really do the great managers, great leaders, they want them to go on.

[00:19:53] So true.

[00:19:54] Great things.

[00:19:55] And you know what?

[00:19:56] If our paths cross again, great.

[00:19:58] If they might, they very well might.

[00:20:00] They very well might.

[00:20:01] Yeah.

[00:20:02] That's fantastic.

[00:20:03] It's the conversations that we have around individual contributors,

[00:20:08] especially the best ones transitioning into leadership.

[00:20:11] It's usually wrought with peril mostly based on training.

[00:20:17] Yeah.

[00:20:18] Like the company doesn't step in and go, yeah, coaching.

[00:20:20] That's it.

[00:20:21] Actually mentoring, coaching.

[00:20:23] People don't step in and go, hey, listen, you're about to go through a transition

[00:20:26] from caterpillar to butterfly.

[00:20:28] By the way, you've never flown before.

[00:20:31] So let us put these things in order so that you are surrounded

[00:20:36] with people that have led and they can help you.

[00:20:40] Yeah.

[00:20:41] Yeah.

[00:20:42] So true.

[00:20:42] So you didn't have that?

[00:20:47] Was there was there was there a guess by the way?

[00:20:50] No, good guess.

[00:20:51] Was it was there a sense of I have to prove myself?

[00:20:54] I'm a woman.

[00:20:55] I'm a woman of color.

[00:20:56] I'm stepping out now.

[00:20:58] All eyes are on me.

[00:20:59] Yes, I had a sense of trying to be one of the fellas.

[00:21:02] I actually just shared a story about this recently because I think

[00:21:06] a lot of young women do this like this desire to fit in and be one of the guys.

[00:21:12] And that's you can interpret that any kind of way.

[00:21:16] But for me, it was being super assertive, you know, wearing black

[00:21:21] suit jackets every day and making sure my voice was heard and all of those things.

[00:21:28] And those are important.

[00:21:29] Being assertive, making sure your voice is heard.

[00:21:32] The suit jacket is not so much, but I really had to embrace who I was.

[00:21:39] And that was tough, you know, especially when you're young

[00:21:42] and you're figuring out who the hell you are anyway.

[00:21:43] Right.

[00:21:44] But but I'm definitely grateful for that experience.

[00:21:47] That that went right there.

[00:21:48] I learned a lot.

[00:21:49] I learned a lot more that first year as senior editor than I would have an MBA.

[00:21:53] I'm convinced of that.

[00:21:55] Oh, 100 percent.

[00:21:56] Probably probably true.

[00:21:57] No, 100 percent.

[00:21:59] True as an MBA.

[00:22:00] I could I can tell you 100 percent.

[00:22:03] I learned I learned most.

[00:22:04] Ryan does this.

[00:22:05] I learned most of what I know about business through I worked for Sam Weldon.

[00:22:11] For oh, wow.

[00:22:12] Yeah.

[00:22:12] Yeah.

[00:22:13] So I learned more about business there.

[00:22:16] Like, I didn't need to go to business school, especially I'd already had a master's degree.

[00:22:20] So business school was just an additional master's degree.

[00:22:23] I did. I didn't need it.

[00:22:25] I felt like I needed it.

[00:22:26] Once I got into business, I'm like, this is easy.

[00:22:31] It goes back to Ryan's question, though, that need to prove

[00:22:33] like having something to prove.

[00:22:35] Like, oh, yeah, that just just makes sense.

[00:22:38] But actually, yeah.

[00:22:39] Well, guys don't guys don't have that.

[00:22:42] Guys don't have that.

[00:22:44] They're like come out of the womb already aggressive

[00:22:47] and already feeling like their voice is going to be heard.

[00:22:49] So they don't they don't run into that most of them, at least in business.

[00:22:53] They don't run into.

[00:22:54] Have other challenges, clearly, but they don't have that challenge.

[00:22:57] No, they definitely do.

[00:23:00] So the world served on a platter.

[00:23:03] Yes. Yes. Exactly.

[00:23:05] Especially white men that serve on a platter.

[00:23:08] So I get to find the great ones to work with that don't have

[00:23:11] an ego behind it, right?

[00:23:13] How are we? What was that moment for you?

[00:23:17] Have you ever been to a webinar where the topic was great,

[00:23:19] but there wasn't enough time to ask questions or have a dialogue to learn more?

[00:23:23] Well, welcome to HR and payroll 2.0, the podcast where those post

[00:23:26] webinar questions become episodes.

[00:23:28] We feature HR practitioners, leaders and founders of HR, payroll

[00:23:32] and workplace innovation and transformation sharing their insights

[00:23:35] and lessons learned from the trenches.

[00:23:37] We dig in to share the knowledge and tips that can help modern HR

[00:23:40] and payroll leaders navigate the challenges and opportunities ahead.

[00:23:43] So join us for highly authentic, unscripted conversations

[00:23:46] and let's learn together.

[00:23:48] Hey, this is William Tynkup, work to find.

[00:23:51] Hey, listen, I'd like to talk to you a little bit about inside

[00:23:53] the C-suite, the podcast.

[00:23:55] It's a look into the journey of how one goes from high school,

[00:24:00] college, whatever, all the way to the C-suite, all the ups and downs,

[00:24:03] failure, successes, all that stuff.

[00:24:05] Good. Listen, subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

[00:24:09] What was the moment when you realized, yeah, I actually do belong here.

[00:24:14] It's a great question.

[00:24:15] It was when so our doors were closed.

[00:24:18] I went on was interviewing for

[00:24:22] another business writing role and one of my analysts was as well.

[00:24:26] And we had a conversation and I was like, we should go do this.

[00:24:31] What we were doing with another firm,

[00:24:34] a more reputable firm, a more reputable name.

[00:24:37] And that's how I got to meet Richard Hulhan and start working with them.

[00:24:41] And there were five of us, I think, to start.

[00:24:45] And a year and a half or so later, we threw our first holiday party

[00:24:49] and there were over 50 people there.

[00:24:52] I think it's over 60, but I want to make sure I'm more accurate.

[00:24:56] And my feet hurt.

[00:24:58] I kicked my shoes off and I was sitting on top of the table.

[00:25:01] It had a glass of champagne in my hand and I was like, mama, I made it.

[00:25:05] I made it. And I was only 25.

[00:25:09] But that's because I knew I had helped and made

[00:25:12] all of these people have a different career path or different opportunities

[00:25:16] than they would have ever had had we not open those doors.

[00:25:20] And so that is when I felt like I had done the thing.

[00:25:24] It was years later that I realized that there's so much more than that.

[00:25:29] And so, Ryan, fast forward, I think really understanding the power of community

[00:25:33] and the power of connecting with other women and especially other women of color.

[00:25:39] That's really helped me mature and grow in my forties in ways

[00:25:43] that I didn't even know I could experience.

[00:25:46] So yeah.

[00:25:47] Is is is it was it at the beginning?

[00:25:51] Was it just shared stories?

[00:25:54] Yes, yes.

[00:25:55] What you've been through what someone else has been through.

[00:25:59] Into the same shit.

[00:26:00] Yes. Yeah.

[00:26:02] What is it? And I'm big on that.

[00:26:03] I think that when we share when we share our stories

[00:26:06] at work, outside of work, it gives folks an opportunity to see you

[00:26:11] to feel empathetic empathy, right?

[00:26:13] To feel empathetic toward whatever you've experienced.

[00:26:16] And if they've experienced something similar or could at least relate,

[00:26:20] it gives you an opportunity to have a real connection.

[00:26:23] Right. And do that connection we can actually influence.

[00:26:26] And I think it's really important for women leaders to understand

[00:26:32] that leadership doesn't always come through authority.

[00:26:35] That a lot of it can come through influence.

[00:26:37] The fellas, too, definitely the fellas, too,

[00:26:40] and really connecting with your people and your clients

[00:26:43] and having those conversations.

[00:26:44] So that's been the last 10 years, though,

[00:26:47] had a lot of bumpy roads before that.

[00:26:49] Last time I was in New York, I met through a friend.

[00:26:52] I met Minda Hart and she's an author in the space.

[00:26:57] Oh, OK. I think she's three time, maybe four books in.

[00:27:01] Oh, wow. She talks.

[00:27:02] She talks to she talks about this very thing.

[00:27:05] Oh, wow. Yeah. Thank you for sharing.

[00:27:07] Yeah. No, she's yeah.

[00:27:09] Yeah. She's worthy.

[00:27:10] I think she's actually got one of her books

[00:27:12] that's going to be made into a TV show or a movie or something like that.

[00:27:16] That's incredible. Yeah.

[00:27:17] Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

[00:27:20] So let's talk about what what happened.

[00:27:21] What came after the next stage new career?

[00:27:26] So I was building a business and the

[00:27:31] oh, gosh, this one was building a business and

[00:27:36] decided to go back to school.

[00:27:38] I was doing well enough that I decided

[00:27:40] I was going to go to school for interior design

[00:27:41] and stay on as a consultant.

[00:27:43] Did that even lived in London for a year.

[00:27:47] My you know, I was married and we lived in London for a year

[00:27:50] and experienced trying to open office there

[00:27:53] and expand the business there and all of the failures

[00:27:55] and wins that come with that.

[00:27:58] And

[00:27:59] the market was just getting worse and worse.

[00:28:01] And so I said, all right, I'm going to go find another full time role.

[00:28:07] And it ended up being in corporate law.

[00:28:10] And I was like, you know, I had to beg for the role, frankly.

[00:28:14] And Jack Cummins, rest in peace.

[00:28:15] One of the top contract attorneys in Chicago.

[00:28:19] He was wanting to hire a receptionist.

[00:28:22] But once I got in there for the interview,

[00:28:24] I saw that he needed a lot more than a receptionist.

[00:28:26] And he said this, he would always say this.

[00:28:28] And so we made a deal if he gave me gave me a chance.

[00:28:32] And in six months, he felt like he could continue operating without me.

[00:28:37] Then so be it.

[00:28:39] Otherwise, you're going to have to, you know,

[00:28:41] damn near double my pay and we, you know,

[00:28:44] he's an attorney and a contract one.

[00:28:46] So that's six months turned almost a year.

[00:28:47] But he made good on his promise.

[00:28:50] And I began managing a lot of our clients.

[00:28:53] And so and it was a wild time for me.

[00:28:55] I had just gotten a divorce.

[00:28:56] I had lost my father all in that year,

[00:28:59] lost my father and got a divorce within six months.

[00:29:02] And it was a really low point.

[00:29:04] So just being able to hyper focus on this new opportunity

[00:29:08] and still having design clients, right?

[00:29:11] I was had just finished design school.

[00:29:13] So I was doing that on the sides in the weekend.

[00:29:14] And I just kind of buried myself into those things.

[00:29:19] That's I was on HGTV during that time.

[00:29:22] I mean, it was just it seemed like everything was going really well.

[00:29:26] But inside I was a mess.

[00:29:28] And I worked there, started seeing these kids come in.

[00:29:33] Literally the kids in my book with Farragamo loafers

[00:29:37] and half a million dollar contracts.

[00:29:40] And I'm like, I like Farragamo.

[00:29:41] And I haven't seen contracts like this cross Jack's desk before now.

[00:29:46] What are they all doing?

[00:29:48] And the thing they had in common with software and I was like,

[00:29:52] I'm there.

[00:29:53] And then some of these other kids.

[00:29:55] Yep. These other kids are walking in trying to sell us on new software.

[00:30:01] And the yeah, law firms are they know

[00:30:05] I'm not going to hurt anyone's feelings here.

[00:30:06] They know they're a bit of dinosaurs and slow move.

[00:30:09] And so I realized like I could stay here with my suits

[00:30:14] or I could go figure out what these kids are talking about.

[00:30:17] And I was 31.

[00:30:18] But when you're 31, you feel like you're so grown and this is a huge risk

[00:30:23] and you don't understand that you have the time to make that pivot.

[00:30:27] And I did. And I did.

[00:30:29] Yeah, that was the scariest thing I've ever done in my life.

[00:30:33] It was. Yeah. Where did you pivot to?

[00:30:36] So I took a role.

[00:30:39] I had applied for a writer and editor role for a procurement tech

[00:30:43] research analyst firm and they had a startup mentality, Chicago based.

[00:30:48] And I thought, I'll just get in and learn about it, writing about it.

[00:30:53] And then my third interview was with the CEO

[00:30:57] and he started asking me more about my experience.

[00:30:59] And he's like, you know what?

[00:31:00] I think you should be a client manager.

[00:31:02] I was like, OK, I still didn't even understand that I had a pattern at this point.

[00:31:07] I did not realize, OK, working with executive level clients is my sweet spot.

[00:31:10] I just wanted to get into software and whatever you think, Mr. CEO.

[00:31:16] And that's where I discovered contingent workforce

[00:31:17] because they had just hired an analyst to cover it.

[00:31:20] It was new in the sense of, yeah, we need someone covering this full time

[00:31:25] as part of procurement.

[00:31:28] And I didn't even know what contingent workforce meant.

[00:31:30] And field glass was based in Chicago.

[00:31:35] Yeah, yeah, I still have a couple of dear friends from field glass.

[00:31:38] Yeah. And so I did that.

[00:31:41] Didn't know how to use a MacBook.

[00:31:43] I stole it all.

[00:31:46] You're you're definitely ahead of us.

[00:31:48] I'm just saying.

[00:31:49] No, trust me, it's the way.

[00:31:52] And yeah, and I remember my first meeting

[00:31:56] at 31 I was, if not the one of the oldest folks at the round the table.

[00:32:02] Right? Right.

[00:32:02] Other than the senior leadership and I remember I pulled out my notebook.

[00:32:06] I was ready. You know, I'm like, all right, let's get into it.

[00:32:09] And I look around and everyone just has Google Docs up.

[00:32:12] I didn't even know.

[00:32:13] So you're a tech company.

[00:32:15] I didn't even know you could do that.

[00:32:17] I'm like, wait, I can write in the same document you could write in.

[00:32:20] This is crazy.

[00:32:21] I'm telling you, it was a huge leap.

[00:32:23] I was up late every night to figure it out.

[00:32:26] So you got legal path flipped over the page.

[00:32:30] They're looking you like.

[00:32:32] Yes, that's exactly how they are.

[00:32:34] I'll fact you my notes after the meeting.

[00:32:37] Pretty much right.

[00:32:38] Pretty much.

[00:32:39] Mm hmm.

[00:32:40] Yeah, so that was that.

[00:32:41] It's fascinating that the CEO saw that in you.

[00:32:44] I mean, you've done it at the law firm.

[00:32:46] That's OK.

[00:32:47] It makes sense, right?

[00:32:48] It tracks.

[00:32:49] Yeah, that you could interact with clients.

[00:32:51] You could obviously take care of them and kind of be intuitive

[00:32:55] around what they needed then, but what they were going to need later.

[00:33:00] But, you know, it's so easy as a by that time that he was a third,

[00:33:04] fourth interview, whatever the other team had already had you

[00:33:07] slotted for something else.

[00:33:09] Yeah.

[00:33:10] So he basically said, no, that's we're going to she's better.

[00:33:15] She'll be better once she understands what we do and all the other stuff.

[00:33:19] She'll be better over here.

[00:33:20] Yes.

[00:33:21] And he was running a long play on me because he tricked me into sales.

[00:33:29] So I'm so grateful.

[00:33:30] I'm so grateful.

[00:33:31] That's what a good leader does, right?

[00:33:32] They see something and they kind of lead you there gently.

[00:33:36] It was like, you know what?

[00:33:37] And he could tell us passionate about clients.

[00:33:39] William, he knew that he let me run with that for about six months.

[00:33:43] And then it was a small renewal.

[00:33:45] It's time for like a small program renewal.

[00:33:48] And he said, I think you should take the lead on this.

[00:33:51] 100 percent.

[00:33:52] Because you know the client best.

[00:33:54] I'm like, I sure do.

[00:33:56] I'll take it next to get to him in sales.

[00:33:58] If he would have thrown you in sales.

[00:34:02] Oh, I would have hated it.

[00:34:02] Yeah. Failed.

[00:34:03] Miserable.

[00:34:04] I would have failed miserably.

[00:34:05] I had the wrong attitude about it.

[00:34:06] I didn't understand what sales actually is

[00:34:09] because of my smile and dial experience.

[00:34:11] That's all I had to lean on, right?

[00:34:13] And so.

[00:34:14] But this is more relationship based.

[00:34:16] Yes.

[00:34:16] And so you're having a relationship with the person

[00:34:19] and taking care of them and take care of it, et cetera.

[00:34:23] It's it's not sales.

[00:34:25] I mean, it is sales, but it's just extending the relationship.

[00:34:29] And if you have the right to the client, it's not even a thing.

[00:34:32] Yeah, no, this is so true.

[00:34:34] So she's what?

[00:34:36] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:38] Yeah.

[00:34:39] Would you go for him for that?

[00:34:41] Would you do after that?

[00:34:43] So I was working there maybe a year and a half or so.

[00:34:47] And again, start at mentality.

[00:34:49] I was wanting to negotiate.

[00:34:52] This is for all my young folks out there.

[00:34:53] I wanted to negotiate my salary

[00:34:55] and was told to give them another year.

[00:34:58] And so wanting to be good on my word,

[00:35:01] I said, OK, because I saw the growth, I saw the potential.

[00:35:04] I saw how I was growing this client base

[00:35:06] around just contingent workforce.

[00:35:08] So I said, all right.

[00:35:09] And about four or five months into that year,

[00:35:11] one of my former clients, she had moved on to Bullhorn.

[00:35:15] And she and I bumped into her at a conference.

[00:35:18] And I thought she was just being nice.

[00:35:20] I always tease her about this.

[00:35:21] She was inviting me to these dinners and to this private event.

[00:35:25] I'm just like, this is so thoughtful of her.

[00:35:27] This is only my second conference.

[00:35:28] And little low behold, I didn't know she she had asked her personal board

[00:35:32] of directors. She asked two or three people she really trusted.

[00:35:35] Hey, I want you to talk with her because I'm thinking

[00:35:37] about giving her a job offer.

[00:35:39] Yeah.

[00:35:39] And so that's another lesson learned.

[00:35:41] Like you just never know.

[00:35:43] And so I used to think about it as always being on,

[00:35:46] but that's not it because on isn't genuine and like it's not as authentic.

[00:35:50] You know what I mean? It's just really being present.

[00:35:53] Right. And so I had that was my favorite conference one to this day.

[00:35:57] It's still one of my favorite conferences.

[00:35:58] And which one was it? Was it?

[00:36:00] It was the MSA live, actually. Yeah. Of course.

[00:36:03] Yeah. So it's small intimate, but that experience with with her

[00:36:07] with the meeting everyone, it was just exhilarating.

[00:36:11] I like, you know, usually I had only been to one before this.

[00:36:15] And so that when I was probably just a nervous wreck and trying to meet

[00:36:18] with as many clients as I could, this was a different experience for me.

[00:36:22] And the last day she made me an offer.

[00:36:26] And before we move on, I need to let you know about my friend, Mark

[00:36:30] Pfeffer and his show, People Tech.

[00:36:33] If you're looking for the latest on product development, marketing,

[00:36:36] funding, big deals happening in talent acquisition, HR, HCM.

[00:36:43] That's the show you need to listen to go to the work to find network,

[00:36:47] search up People Tech, Mark Pfeffer.

[00:36:50] You can find them anywhere because we had a great friendship

[00:36:55] or great relationship with her as a client.

[00:36:58] We weren't friends yet. We got there, but we weren't friends yet.

[00:36:59] But she'd been a client. There was trust.

[00:37:01] And so when she made the offer, I trusted her not to tell her.

[00:37:05] I don't know, because I gave them my word that I would wait waited out a year.

[00:37:11] And she leaned across the table and she said, don't be stupid.

[00:37:15] This is what I was going to go back.

[00:37:19] You're not friends like that.

[00:37:20] You're not friends like that.

[00:37:21] You do.

[00:37:22] You do. Yeah.

[00:37:24] She was like, don't be stupid.

[00:37:25] These type of opportunities do not come around every day.

[00:37:29] And I had to make a tough decision for me at that time.

[00:37:32] I'm a person of principle.

[00:37:34] So it was tough to go back and tell them, thank you for, you know,

[00:37:38] thanks for the ride and the experience.

[00:37:41] But I'm going to take this chance and go over here and join Bullhorn

[00:37:45] and actually work for a software company.

[00:37:47] Wow. So two things here.

[00:37:49] Sorry, William. God.

[00:37:50] No, no, no, you got it.

[00:37:51] So two things here. One, there's there's two stories here

[00:37:54] that I want to kind of dig into.

[00:37:56] One is the fact that they asked you to wait for a year.

[00:37:59] Right? That's I've done that before myself.

[00:38:01] I've gotten that same answer.

[00:38:03] And it's like a pin to the head, like you're deflated, right?

[00:38:06] And you start counting down the 12 months and something comes in

[00:38:09] between those 12 months, which it did.

[00:38:11] I was going to ask you about that, which it did.

[00:38:14] Now you're in a situation where you need to make a decision.

[00:38:17] So I want to talk about that a little bit

[00:38:18] and what that company that you were with previously

[00:38:21] maybe could have done better for you

[00:38:23] because I think this is a situation a lot of people are in.

[00:38:25] But secondly, give you a raise.

[00:38:28] You said you're well, yeah, that would probably make sense.

[00:38:31] Right? Like, well, but I mean, that's a good answer.

[00:38:35] I agree. I agree.

[00:38:36] I agree. Yeah.

[00:38:38] But then you said pay you what you were.

[00:38:41] You thought it was about being all all the time.

[00:38:44] And I say that all the time.

[00:38:46] So we got to be on.

[00:38:47] We're at the event. We've got to be on.

[00:38:48] Like maybe talk about the difference between being on and authentic

[00:38:53] in your mind on kind of what that means to you.

[00:38:56] Because I think a lot of people say that I've got to be on.

[00:38:58] Yeah. And I don't think I don't know.

[00:39:00] I don't think they mean it in a bad way.

[00:39:03] No, no, not at all.

[00:39:04] It does bite them in the ass a little bit

[00:39:06] and they don't realize that.

[00:39:08] Yeah, it's it's that focus right of external factors

[00:39:11] of making sure I say the right thing.

[00:39:13] Make sure that I talk to the right people.

[00:39:15] Make sure that I'm paying attention

[00:39:17] and if someone needs something,

[00:39:18] I'm able to dive in right there and in there.

[00:39:21] It's all comes with good intention, right?

[00:39:25] Because you want to represent yourself.

[00:39:26] You want to represent your company well.

[00:39:28] And so it's that idea of just making sure I am together.

[00:39:32] Yeah, that's not the human experience.

[00:39:34] And so is it is that pressure?

[00:39:38] I mean, self inflicted, right?

[00:39:40] Is that pressure? Does it do you see that more

[00:39:43] when women or in women of color?

[00:39:46] Do you see that like as some type of theme that goes through?

[00:39:49] Because like your as you're speaking,

[00:39:52] I'm ticking off the box that I do none of that.

[00:39:55] But you're also your own character, right?

[00:39:58] Well, you've got you you're your there.

[00:40:00] So there are plenty of young men out there,

[00:40:02] plenty of grown men out there who before a client meeting

[00:40:06] or sales meeting, they think they need to be on.

[00:40:08] They have to make sure they say the right thing.

[00:40:11] They have to have it.

[00:40:12] They practice their lines.

[00:40:13] They make sure they're prepared.

[00:40:15] They want to impress the client instead of being present.

[00:40:19] Because yeah, yeah.

[00:40:21] When you were present, you can

[00:40:24] that's when your intuition and, you know,

[00:40:26] your years of experience can kind of take over.

[00:40:29] And you can trust that you know what's

[00:40:31] happening in front of you in the moment.

[00:40:33] So that way, if you need to pivot that sales conversation

[00:40:35] or you need to completely go down a different route of questioning,

[00:40:39] you're ready to do that because you caught something.

[00:40:43] And that I mean, it's a muscle, like you have to practice that.

[00:40:46] I'm always talking about the power of the pause.

[00:40:48] You can tell I talk 100 miles an hour.

[00:40:50] And I think even faster.

[00:40:54] And I've really had to work on that because if I don't make that pause

[00:40:58] and get my thoughts together or think about what's happening

[00:41:00] right in front of me, I can totally miss the mark.

[00:41:03] And I really think that that's a big difference

[00:41:06] between being on and being present.

[00:41:07] I love that.

[00:41:09] I love all of that.

[00:41:11] So let me I got to ask you about the before we close up everything

[00:41:14] about your book.

[00:41:15] Tell me how that came to be.

[00:41:17] Yes, well, it's

[00:41:20] it's because well, I was hosting a CEO dinner

[00:41:25] at was going to be exact forum 2020.

[00:41:28] And I looked at the invite list and it was 20, 25 people.

[00:41:32] And there were maybe three or four women, three or four female executives.

[00:41:36] And at this point, I had recently been promoted

[00:41:39] and was now reporting directly to our VP.

[00:41:41] And it was the first time I told him I was going to do something

[00:41:44] instead of asking like I didn't run it by him.

[00:41:46] I just said, hey, I'm going to invite

[00:41:49] Leslie Vickery of Clear Edge Marketing and two other female executives

[00:41:53] to this dinner.

[00:41:55] And he rightfully so was like, OK, Kendra,

[00:41:57] but this is just supposed to be for our clients.

[00:41:59] I said, I understand that.

[00:42:00] But look at this list and we want more diverse representation.

[00:42:04] It's going to make it a better experience for everyone.

[00:42:07] And he gave me the green light.

[00:42:10] I was nervously, you know, text her,

[00:42:12] say, could you give me a call when you get a chance?

[00:42:14] Because we didn't have a really close relationship at the time.

[00:42:17] And she gave me a shout and I invited her to the dinner

[00:42:21] and her response was, are you sure like you got the OK on this?

[00:42:25] I said, well, I wouldn't be on your line if I didn't get the OK.

[00:42:29] And a day later, she called me and invited me to a dinner

[00:42:32] that she was planning for a few women

[00:42:36] to celebrate Joyce Russell's book, Cherry on Top.

[00:42:40] I was thrilled. I was so excited.

[00:42:42] You know, I hadn't had much time

[00:42:45] one on one time socially with a lot of these women.

[00:42:47] And so I couldn't wait.

[00:42:49] And then the world shut down and we decided to

[00:42:53] Leslie decided that we would still do a Zoom call.

[00:42:56] And it was an incredibly powerful hour.

[00:42:58] We spent some time absolutely celebrating Joyce and her book.

[00:43:02] We spent a good chunk of the rest of the time

[00:43:05] navigating what these new waters, right?

[00:43:07] These were all C-suite women and me, you know, and

[00:43:13] even having them text me or start calling me about what I was doing

[00:43:16] to help with the culture with our sales enterprise team

[00:43:19] and things like that, like building that trust and understanding

[00:43:22] that I had value to bring to this group in such a strange time.

[00:43:26] And all of our careers and our lives

[00:43:28] was really, really powerful for me personally.

[00:43:32] And we decided to keep meeting and let's meet every month.

[00:43:36] And then it's like, you know, we should invite some authors

[00:43:38] or just mix it up a bit

[00:43:40] as time went on and maybe six months in

[00:43:43] a woman came, an author came on and told us about the power of telling your story.

[00:43:48] That was what her book was about.

[00:43:49] And she said, you, you got you ladies should do that.

[00:43:53] And we're like, OK, like I thought we were just being polite, frankly.

[00:43:59] I did not think we were actually going to sit down and write a book.

[00:44:01] I'll tell you that much.

[00:44:02] And that is how it came to be.

[00:44:04] And so it was incredible.

[00:44:06] I mean, we've raised thousands of dollars for ASAs, women, leadership,

[00:44:10] scholarships. We've made a difference in the industry.

[00:44:13] And we have been able to speak at in so many events,

[00:44:18] like my proudest moment ever was doing the keynote at the staffing world,

[00:44:21] ASA staffing world in twenty twenty two.

[00:44:23] And I was able to do that because of this experience

[00:44:26] and because I trusted these women enough to create something

[00:44:29] and put it out into the ether with them.

[00:44:31] So I'm very, very proud of that.

[00:44:33] And even though my dad used to ask me what happened to me being on TV,

[00:44:37] I just have this feeling in my heart that he is incredibly proud of this.

[00:44:41] That too. Yeah.

[00:44:42] And any any group of people could do it, any group of women could do this.

[00:44:45] Right?

[00:44:46] We've had two different sets of women in other countries

[00:44:49] say that they're doing something similar now.

[00:44:52] And I think it's incredible because when we tell our story,

[00:44:55] when we have opportunities like this to sit with the Ryan's and

[00:44:58] Williams of the world who are giving us a platform, when we tell this story,

[00:45:01] we're able to really connect and help, you know,

[00:45:06] uplift others who are going through similar experiences that we've already

[00:45:11] persevered.

[00:45:11] Three hundred percent.

[00:45:13] Drops my walk-through stage.

[00:45:15] Ryan, do you have anything else? I'm sorry.

[00:45:17] No, I'm good.

[00:45:18] I just I thoroughly, Kendra, thoroughly enjoyed the conversation.

[00:45:22] I just kind of was hoping there was a I got on TV story at the end.

[00:45:28] Yeah.

[00:45:29] I mean, you've got your own video.

[00:45:31] She's got plenty of time.

[00:45:33] Do you want to do you want to take us out?

[00:45:36] Like, do you want to say toss it back to William?

[00:45:39] I mean, you can do that.

[00:45:40] Sure. Sure.

[00:45:41] I don't know how to do that, though.

[00:45:43] No, no, no.

[00:45:44] I took a class on it.

[00:45:46] That was a long time ago.

[00:45:47] Yeah. Back to you, Jim.

[00:45:49] Back to you, Jim.

[00:45:51] No, thank you gentlemen so much.

[00:45:53] This was so much fun.

[00:45:54] Thank you for, you know, helping me with my nerves last night.

[00:45:58] Those late night jitters.

[00:46:00] This was a lot of fun.

[00:46:01] I would I could talk to you guys all day.

[00:46:03] So well, thank you for coming on this show.

[00:46:05] Thanks for the audience for listening and we appreciate you.