Moving HR & Payroll Forever Forward with Special Guest Cristina Goldt

[00:00:09] Welcome everyone to a very special episode of the HR Amparell 2.0 podcast. I'm Pete Tiliakis and as always, I'm joined by the legendary Julie Fernandez. Welcome, Julie.

[00:00:18] Thanks, Pete. We say we're in a very special episode because we are actually in a place we are usually not on the Workday Podcast bus.

[00:00:25] That's right. We are on the Forever Forward, Workday Forever Forward bus. We are here with Cristina Goldt, a close partner of mine that we work with very closely and I love having conversations with her. I'm excited to have her on the show. She is the General Manager of Workforce and Payroll.

[00:00:38] We were just saying two very, very difficult and complex things for the Workday organization. So welcome, Cristina.

[00:00:44] Yeah, no, happy to be here and happy we could do this on the Forever Forward bus. Yes.

[00:00:48] The Rockstar bus. The Rockstar bus. Yes, yes. This is awesome.

[00:00:51] This would be the big RV tour bus that you see Workday bringing to its client events and other events.

[00:00:56] And to say that it is state of the art would be an understatement. This is probably the nicest podcast studio we have ever set foot in.

[00:01:04] So thank you so much for the hospitality. This is such a privilege.

[00:01:06] I appreciate it. Yeah, excited to have you here, Cristina. And I know I had a burning question just even about your title. It is the stickiest of stuff in Workday. But also I was I found it very interesting that workforce management comes before payroll in your title. And I wanted to ask you about that. Why is that?

[00:01:23] So, yes, it does. And you're right, Julie, this is the stickiest stuff. I like to say it is all the foundational pieces of Workday.

[00:01:29] So I feel very privileged, but also a huge responsibility. Right. In terms of making sure that all of this works and works well.

[00:01:37] And so the reason it's workforce and payroll is when we think about workforce and workforce management overall, core HR, HCM is very important.

[00:01:48] And that is the foundation. And so you got to have that first. And so that's why workforce comes before payroll.

[00:01:55] So, OK, but but in that context, then workforce management isn't meant to mean time. Right. It's meant to mean really all of work.

[00:02:02] It's really meant to mean to mean all. You're exactly right. So it means core HCM. It means time absence. It means total rewards.

[00:02:09] Actually, HR service delivery fits in there as well. So we've kind of put a lot of things in that one basket.

[00:02:15] Look at that. We got the mech mommy of payroll.

[00:02:19] So I've never been called that before. So trying to make it memorable for you. All right. I will not forget that.

[00:02:26] So you make a great point about the foundational element of all that. Right.

[00:02:30] I always say I like to use a sports analogy. It's like football. It's the blocking and tackling that has to happen to set up the touchdowns.

[00:02:37] And I think that there is still a tremendous opportunity for us to do a lot of work in that space to make that easier and better and more effective.

[00:02:44] I could not agree more. Yeah. We can't keep our I like to say again, sports analogy.

[00:02:48] You can't take your eye off that foundational ball because you're never going to set up these other great things.

[00:02:52] And that's that's what I want to dig into. Well, ultimately, you have to get to, you know, because they are the foundational elements, you have to get to foundational excellence.

[00:02:59] Yeah. Right. And that's really our vision of what we strive for. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:03] So, Julie, you want to do the honors after the question we ask all of our guests?

[00:03:06] All right. Oh, we always ask our guests, how did you get started in HR?

[00:03:11] And that can mean HR technology here. Right. And why do you stay?

[00:03:16] So I started my career in HR technology in when I graduated from college.

[00:03:23] I went to work for Accenture as a consultant and I worked on a payroll implementation.

[00:03:29] Oh, my. You were green, weren't you?

[00:03:32] Trial by fire.

[00:03:33] So, yes. So that's sort of how I started. And then then I ended up, you know, going to PeopleSoft and then here I am at Workday.

[00:03:43] Wow.

[00:03:44] That's awesome. I didn't even anticipate that we would hear you started in payroll of all places because usually that's the question we're asking our guests is, why?

[00:03:51] How did you fall into payroll? Yeah. Yes.

[00:03:53] But you actually did start in payroll.

[00:03:55] I did actually start in payroll.

[00:03:56] Interesting.

[00:03:57] Rolled your way up to other things.

[00:03:58] It never lets you leave. It never lets you leave.

[00:04:00] Apparently, you just can't leave the family.

[00:04:02] Yeah. It does. It does stick to you. But thankfully that we always say this, like thankfully, those that do come, they stay.

[00:04:07] And what we've got to do, and this is a whole other episode, we've got to work on getting more people to start their careers there or want to start their careers there.

[00:04:13] Yeah. Because we've got some real special athletes, as I like to say, out there in the space, but they're not necessarily been empowered the right way.

[00:04:20] And they haven't been, you know, they haven't been seen as rock stars.

[00:04:23] Yeah. I think that's entirely true.

[00:04:25] And I definitely feel that we're at a point in time where that whole function is transforming.

[00:04:31] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:33] Yeah. And I hope that people who listen to our podcast start to hear all the different places that you can go, you know, when you start in payroll.

[00:04:41] How many towers of each other are there?

[00:04:41] Dr. Seuss, oh, the places you'll go.

[00:04:43] Oh, the places you'll go.

[00:04:44] Yeah.

[00:04:44] Yeah.

[00:04:45] Like, look, you could end up on the workday bus.

[00:04:47] Yeah.

[00:04:48] You could.

[00:04:48] Yeah.

[00:04:49] And you asked me why I stay, because so much changes.

[00:04:53] Like there's been, when we think about technology, how much has changed over time.

[00:04:58] You know, I feel like, you know, one of the things I always stay because I learn and I feel like I continually learn more and more.

[00:05:05] Yeah.

[00:05:05] Yeah.

[00:05:06] That's a big hook for me too.

[00:05:07] You know, it's not static at all.

[00:05:09] The target keeps moving.

[00:05:12] And that makes it fun.

[00:05:13] I love it.

[00:05:13] For those of us who are crazy.

[00:05:14] It is.

[00:05:15] Yeah.

[00:05:15] So, look, obviously we are, we're here live at the HR technology conference, probably the biggest conference in HR technology broadly for the industry.

[00:05:25] But I know you've been here before, Christine.

[00:05:27] I know this is not your first rodeo, but what are you hearing?

[00:05:29] What are you seeing?

[00:05:30] What's got you excited?

[00:05:31] What has you buzzing this week?

[00:05:33] Yeah.

[00:05:34] You know, I think, you know, one of the most exciting things is, you know, no surprise, AI.

[00:05:40] And not just that we're talking about AI because we've been talking about it for a little bit, but I feel like that we're making that move from talking about it to how we're actually going to use it.

[00:05:51] Yeah.

[00:05:51] You know, and that it's becoming more real.

[00:05:54] And I think just seeing that is what's exciting to me.

[00:05:59] Yeah.

[00:05:59] Yeah.

[00:06:00] It is.

[00:06:00] It is, right?

[00:06:01] It's like, it's so refreshing.

[00:06:02] I was telling someone on stage, I was like, had I had this as an HR leader, you know, 15 years ago or whatever, I could have taken over the world.

[00:06:08] You know what I mean?

[00:06:09] With just any of this.

[00:06:10] So, super exciting.

[00:06:10] I mean, it is changing the way we work.

[00:06:12] It is changing the way HR works.

[00:06:14] Yeah.

[00:06:14] Right.

[00:06:15] And how HR serves the business, really, I think is, like you said, taking over the world.

[00:06:21] Yeah.

[00:06:21] I love the way that it's a topic starter, right?

[00:06:25] But really where it becomes most interesting to people is when you embed it into the client stories or the use cases.

[00:06:32] And so, you know, it's just a thing.

[00:06:34] It's a tool.

[00:06:35] It has a potential to just be that hyped conversation of the year, right?

[00:06:40] Right.

[00:06:41] Until you start to see it working its way into things that are processes that are happening all the time.

[00:06:47] Yeah.

[00:06:47] And you realize, like, oh, this is integral, really, to what we're delivering.

[00:06:51] Absolutely, right?

[00:06:51] I think it's the term has been, you know, bandied about where you hear us talking about agentifying.

[00:06:58] And that really is what it is, right?

[00:07:00] It is about the process and how you're solving the problem with it.

[00:07:04] Yeah.

[00:07:04] Yeah.

[00:07:04] Yeah.

[00:07:05] You should almost not recognize it, right, when it's being done right.

[00:07:07] Well, exactly.

[00:07:07] Right.

[00:07:08] It should be just part of what's happening.

[00:07:11] Yeah.

[00:07:11] Yeah.

[00:07:12] I mean, you know, it's interesting.

[00:07:13] Someone a little while ago, a leader said to me something about, I can't remember how they said it,

[00:07:18] something about how organizations need to start looking at their human capital as an appreciating asset

[00:07:24] that actually gets more valuable over time.

[00:07:26] Right.

[00:07:26] I never thought about it that way.

[00:07:27] Yeah.

[00:07:27] But that's a really good point, right?

[00:07:28] With, you know, skills, obviously, and opportunities for employees to learn different things and make

[00:07:34] contributions, I don't know that every CHRO or, excuse me, every business leader necessarily

[00:07:40] knows that.

[00:07:40] I think the CHRO knows that.

[00:07:42] Yeah.

[00:07:42] But like, what are your thoughts on that comment?

[00:07:43] Well, I think, you know, traditionally, you know, businesses have looked at their customers

[00:07:47] and think about customer lifetime value.

[00:07:49] Yeah.

[00:07:49] But you really do need to look at your employee lifetime value.

[00:07:52] Right.

[00:07:52] You know, where, how does that actually help the business and growth?

[00:07:56] And so, yeah, I do think it is looking at them as assets.

[00:08:01] Yep.

[00:08:01] But, you know, but it's so much more than that, right?

[00:08:04] Yeah.

[00:08:04] Yeah.

[00:08:05] I mean, I think everybody's just afraid to say that because it's sort of like, oh, then

[00:08:08] I'm just making it about dollars and cents, but I'm talking about people here.

[00:08:12] People.

[00:08:12] Yeah.

[00:08:12] Right.

[00:08:12] Yeah.

[00:08:13] Well, I feel like just like there's an expectation of technology that you're constantly upgrading

[00:08:18] and enhancing and bringing out new things, there should be an equivalent expectation of

[00:08:23] our talent that is constantly upskilling and shifting and becoming more agile and more useful.

[00:08:31] And they're learning more and more in higher level things because the technology, the onus

[00:08:35] is shifting to the technology.

[00:08:36] I mean, you make a good point there with skills, right?

[00:08:38] It is really about when you think about the value to the business and looking at assets,

[00:08:43] it's what's the combination of skills that we've accumulated over time, right?

[00:08:49] Because that's the value that you've added.

[00:08:51] Yeah.

[00:08:51] Yeah.

[00:08:52] I've always kind of wondered that, like even before all this skills talk, I think about

[00:08:55] times in my career, like in consulting and other things where it was like, I knew there

[00:08:59] were things going on, but I was like, did anybody know that I've done that before?

[00:09:03] Like no one asked me or asked my, did they know Julie did that?

[00:09:07] And now I feel like there's, you know, I know you guys are doing a lot of great work

[00:09:10] and there's great point solutions that are helping companies sort of draw that out and

[00:09:14] understand what they have and what they don't have and what they need.

[00:09:18] I think that's probably still the conundrum.

[00:09:20] It's supply and demand.

[00:09:21] Yeah.

[00:09:22] Yeah.

[00:09:22] It's like, I mean, I just think that there's such a, you can have such a better awareness

[00:09:26] of what your workforce is and isn't now than ever before, but I don't know that everybody's

[00:09:30] really taking advantage of that.

[00:09:31] I think you're probably right.

[00:09:33] You know, I think people are maybe trying to get there.

[00:09:36] Some of them maybe don't exactly know where to start.

[00:09:39] And, you know, I think it is the, yeah, that having that knowledge really does allow you

[00:09:44] to use things in more strategic and different ways.

[00:09:47] Yeah.

[00:09:47] Yeah.

[00:09:48] And while I think it's natural for folks to want to think about and explore kind of the

[00:09:53] bling of a standalone new thing, you know, that does something very niche and something

[00:09:57] very useful where they're really going to adopt and pick up is when they find it embedded

[00:10:01] in the foundations of what they're using already.

[00:10:05] Because, you know, it just, it just becomes a part of what you're doing and you don't have

[00:10:09] to go searching and you don't have to, you don't have to go finding that next cool thing

[00:10:13] and make a business case and do something very one-off.

[00:10:16] Well, what it does.

[00:10:17] And, you know, I mean, I could not agree more is that, you know, it provides the context around

[00:10:21] what you're doing.

[00:10:22] And when you think about your data and data being the thing that fuels, you know, giving

[00:10:27] you the information that you need for decision-making, et cetera, fueling AI to help with the process

[00:10:32] to make it better, solve the problem.

[00:10:34] It's that.

[00:10:35] It is, has to be embedded and within context so that you really are able to get something

[00:10:39] out of it.

[00:10:40] Right.

[00:10:41] Right.

[00:10:41] So, you know, look, there's a lot of optimism for what AI is going to do, the augmentation.

[00:10:45] Like I think it's, and I want to get on this in a minute, but I think it's going

[00:10:49] to be a blessing really to that frontline leader.

[00:10:51] And I know that's somewhere that you guys are really focused.

[00:10:53] You've leaned in a lot to that because I think, I mean, I know we've all been a manager

[00:10:56] at some point, you know, in our careers.

[00:10:58] Hopefully you get that opportunity if you haven't.

[00:11:01] And it's scary, right?

[00:11:02] Because you're like, well, I know the most about the thing that I do, but, but I don't

[00:11:06] know if I'm really ready, you know, and, and having that information and help because

[00:11:10] I mean, so much of the engagement and the coaching and the, the, the pulse of the worker

[00:11:15] is now on the manager at the frontline, right?

[00:11:17] They know better than anyone what's really going on.

[00:11:19] Um, but talk about that a little bit, what that means, you know, for you guys and, and

[00:11:23] the way that I, that you see CHRO is kind of looking at that, that group of the, of the

[00:11:28] population now, the backbone of the, of the leadership.

[00:11:30] You know, you think about, um, our frontline managers and people leaders, managers in general.

[00:11:36] We're asking a lot.

[00:11:36] Yes.

[00:11:37] They're kind of at the nexus of all the change that's been happening.

[00:11:40] And we've asked a lot more and more of them to, to deal with, you know, uh, safety and

[00:11:45] health is a thing that they've now had to deal with that they didn't have to deal with

[00:11:48] before.

[00:11:49] Mental health being another thing that they need to think about with their teams.

[00:11:52] Right.

[00:11:52] Like, so, so all of the, all of the people things and then productivity, like how do they

[00:11:56] optimize for the business?

[00:11:57] How do they keep people on the floor?

[00:11:59] How do they make sure they have the right people coming in and people aren't working

[00:12:02] overtime, right?

[00:12:03] People aren't getting burnt out, right?

[00:12:04] Like they're, they're actually managing all of that.

[00:12:07] Um, and I think that's where we are asked, as you said, we're asking so much of them,

[00:12:12] you know, how do we give them the right tools so that they don't have to worry about some

[00:12:17] things?

[00:12:17] Yeah.

[00:12:17] Meaning, you know, uh, people can, you know, swap shifts easily without them having

[00:12:22] to get involved in every last thing, you know, being able to communicate out to their,

[00:12:26] their people if they're, they haven't shown up or haven't checked in.

[00:12:29] Right.

[00:12:29] Like, like those things to help them do their job better and for them not to have to leave

[00:12:34] where they are, to meet them where they are.

[00:12:36] So it has to be mobile.

[00:12:37] They're deskless, right?

[00:12:38] So how do you, how do you provide that in a, in a manner that, um, is easy for them,

[00:12:42] giving them the right tools so they feel also invested in, um, to be able to do their jobs

[00:12:47] well.

[00:12:48] Yeah.

[00:12:48] I'm hearing a lot of like, like employees really want to be heard, right?

[00:12:52] And, and empowered and engaged, right?

[00:12:53] And it's not just, it sounds anecdotal, like, oh, engagement.

[00:12:56] But like, I think people want to be, I think, I think people, workers really want to know

[00:13:00] that you understand their needs and you're also working to help them meet, meet their

[00:13:04] goals.

[00:13:04] And I think that that's, I don't know that that's something that a lot of organizations

[00:13:07] see as a responsibility of the employer, but I believe that they do in some ways because

[00:13:11] work is so much a part of these people's lives, all of our lives.

[00:13:14] Um, so yeah, it worries me that we might be missing that in some ways for some organizations.

[00:13:19] Yeah, no.

[00:13:19] And I think, you know, particularly as, as we're talking about the frontline workforce, I think,

[00:13:23] you know, they've sort of been underserved in terms of tools and, you know, like feeling

[00:13:27] like they're heard.

[00:13:28] So, you know, we feel that, you know, you want to get feedback, you want to understand

[00:13:33] the sentiment, but you want to actually show how you're doing something based on that,

[00:13:37] that, you know, you hear it and how do you like come back to them and let them know that

[00:13:41] we hear you.

[00:13:43] And we know that when employers invest in tools such as, you know, tools for engagement,

[00:13:49] um, you know, what that does is it improves profitability and improves productivity.

[00:13:53] So it does affect that.

[00:13:55] So to your point, like, yeah, it might sound fluffy.

[00:13:57] Like, oh, it's about engagement, but it actually has a direct effect on productivity for the

[00:14:02] business.

[00:14:02] So are there special tools or techniques that you've used to kind of put that laser focus

[00:14:07] on the frontline worker as you're thinking about, you know, making that, making experience

[00:14:13] better, embedding AI and other things?

[00:14:15] Like how do you, how do you reach them?

[00:14:17] Really focus is always on the salaried workers because they're kind of easy.

[00:14:20] Before we move on, I need to let you know about my friend, Mark Pfeffer and his show

[00:14:25] PeopleTech.

[00:14:26] If you're looking for the latest on product development, marketing, funding, big deals

[00:14:32] happening in talent acquisition, HR, HCM, that's the show you need to listen to.

[00:14:39] Go to the WorkDefined network, search up PeopleTech, Mark Pfeffer.

[00:14:43] You can find them anywhere.

[00:14:47] They're definitely easier.

[00:14:50] It's funny.

[00:14:51] It's sort of a balance between they are, seem simpler, but there's also complexity.

[00:14:59] Like how do you, how do you come to the balance of that?

[00:15:03] And so techniques that we use, I think definitely we look at making sure that we are looking

[00:15:08] at the persona and making sure that, you know, we're looking at what's the job to be done,

[00:15:13] you know, because at the end of the day, what are you trying to do to help them?

[00:15:17] Like, are you, are you trying to help them get through it faster?

[00:15:20] Are you trying to help them just, you know, you know, what is it that they are trying to

[00:15:24] get done?

[00:15:25] And we were very focused on that job and then figure out like, what is, where should it

[00:15:30] be?

[00:15:31] Yeah.

[00:15:31] And where do we meet them?

[00:15:32] Because that's where they're going to be.

[00:15:34] Where do they need the information?

[00:15:35] How do we communicate to them?

[00:15:36] You know, what do we need to give them so that, you know, in many cases, like they get

[00:15:41] in and get out, right?

[00:15:42] Like, I mean, the process of HR and that work, how much time do they really need to spend in

[00:15:48] there?

[00:15:48] Right.

[00:15:49] Yeah.

[00:15:49] And that's where I think the tech and the data and the information can help them figure

[00:15:52] It definitely speeds up the process.

[00:15:55] Yeah.

[00:15:55] And also just the process design and optimization, because so often when folks are deploying a

[00:16:02] technology, they think about the job the way the jobs have always been defined.

[00:16:06] Right.

[00:16:06] And they don't think about job architecture and they don't think about work structures

[00:16:09] and they don't think about the things that drive.

[00:16:12] Back to the foundation.

[00:16:13] Exactly.

[00:16:14] The foundations you're trying to, you know, build and deploy.

[00:16:17] So they have these visions of doing things the way things should be done.

[00:16:20] But foundationally, they're not set up.

[00:16:23] You know, they haven't thought about it.

[00:16:24] You have to have the framework.

[00:16:25] You have to think about it and make sure that you're connecting the things you really need

[00:16:29] to be able to, like, you know, are your skills connected to your job?

[00:16:34] That's right.

[00:16:34] And then how does that fit into what your structures look like?

[00:16:38] And then how do I deploy work?

[00:16:40] Even as basic as viewing data, right?

[00:16:42] And what you should be able to view and what you shouldn't.

[00:16:44] There are a number of ways to make people view data.

[00:16:46] But if you don't do it in a way that's foundationally sound, you may have to redo it later to really

[00:16:51] leverage the tools the best now.

[00:16:54] So, Christina, you're obviously on the front lines as Julia is out there helping companies

[00:16:58] transform.

[00:16:59] And you're building.

[00:17:01] You're really, in some ways, I feel like Workday and their peers are really sort of

[00:17:04] shaping what the future should be for work.

[00:17:06] What's the lens right now of the CHRO heading into 2025?

[00:17:10] I mean, what do you hear?

[00:17:11] You just came from rising.

[00:17:12] I know you're here.

[00:17:12] Like, what are you hearing?

[00:17:13] What's the pulse?

[00:17:15] Yeah.

[00:17:15] I think, you know, for CHROs, you know, their world has definitely gotten more complex,

[00:17:20] right?

[00:17:21] And I think it's very much they really need to operate much more cross-functionally,

[00:17:27] where it isn't just like, well, I'm responsible for the people stuff and the development stuff,

[00:17:31] you know, where now, you know, they're really connected to the CIO, right?

[00:17:36] Because technology is so important in terms of how it works.

[00:17:40] And then to the CFO, right?

[00:17:41] Because at the end of the day, it's their responsibility to bring in the talent to drive the business.

[00:17:46] Right.

[00:17:47] And that gets harder and harder.

[00:17:48] Yeah.

[00:17:48] You know, there are, you know, talent shortages and finding people to do jobs.

[00:17:53] Like, how do we, you know, how do we attract people and how do then we retain them?

[00:17:58] Right.

[00:17:58] And that's a, it's a team sport, right?

[00:18:00] Yeah.

[00:18:01] Everybody needs to be part of that.

[00:18:02] And so for CHROs, I think there's that.

[00:18:04] I think the skills conversation is also a big one.

[00:18:07] And, you know, when you think about having the right talent to do what you need to get done,

[00:18:12] you know, thinking about it from a skills landscape is super important.

[00:18:17] And so talent practices are changing.

[00:18:19] Yeah.

[00:18:19] To be more skill-based.

[00:18:21] And I think that's the, you know, making sure you have the right talent with the right skills

[00:18:24] at the right time.

[00:18:25] Yeah.

[00:18:26] So it's, it is skill-based planning.

[00:18:27] I'd love to have you check me a little bit on this, but I feel like CHRO conversations

[00:18:31] for years have always been inclined to focus on learning and talent.

[00:18:36] And of course, it's often more senior teams or salary teams and some of the, some of the

[00:18:41] folks that are coming up the pipeline and up the ranks.

[00:18:43] And, and I feel like I'm seeing more of a move in the CHROs to acknowledge the foundational

[00:18:49] and think about all of these things from a broader based perspective.

[00:18:54] Are you feeling that too?

[00:18:55] And definitely seeing that as well.

[00:18:56] And, you know, when I talk about kind of cross-functionally, I mentioned the CIO and

[00:19:00] the CFO, there's also the COO who, you know, is very linked with the CHRO in terms of making

[00:19:06] sure that your operations are as efficient as possible.

[00:19:10] You know, companies are looking to like, how do I drive business growth?

[00:19:12] But it was also like, how do I make sure I'm managing margins?

[00:19:16] Right.

[00:19:16] And so how do I optimize from that perspective?

[00:19:19] And so there is the, if your foundation isn't, isn't right, then you can't actually apply

[00:19:24] AI in ways to actually gain efficiency.

[00:19:26] Yeah.

[00:19:27] Yeah.

[00:19:27] You know, you know, along that lines last week, one of your customers said on stage something

[00:19:32] that I hadn't really, I thought about, I knew it, but I didn't, it's like, you need

[00:19:36] someone to say it to you.

[00:19:37] And I thought he said it really eloquently.

[00:19:38] He said, you know, HR, and I think he said in their organizations or really all the

[00:19:42] HR needs to be thinking, like, you're a business leader who happens to sit in HR, but has HR

[00:19:49] really sort of stepped up to that realization?

[00:19:53] I don't know that they have.

[00:19:54] I don't know that that's the way we were treated as practitioners coming up.

[00:19:57] It wasn't, you weren't business leaders, you were process owners.

[00:19:59] And, you know, but now that, that's so true though.

[00:20:03] You, you really are business leaders and you have a real responsibility.

[00:20:06] I mean, the ultimate, you know, uh, asset that is going to power the company forward,

[00:20:11] you know, technology aside, we're going to need humans and, and, and, and in emotional

[00:20:15] intelligence to, to, to achieve any sort of transformation of any kind.

[00:20:19] But do you think HR really has realized that or even leaned into it yet?

[00:20:24] Cause I don't think they have.

[00:20:24] Well, you know, as, as you mentioned, right, your people cost is your biggest, is your

[00:20:28] largest cost.

[00:20:29] So as an HR leader, you're responsible really for managing that and, and driving that.

[00:20:36] And, uh, I do think that HR is, has been transforming over, over time, or maybe transforming

[00:20:42] isn't the right word.

[00:20:43] Evolving is probably a better, a better word, you know, where, you know, I think, you know,

[00:20:48] traditionally it was like, well, that's finance's job, you know, but now they're just as, um,

[00:20:53] uh, you know, I would say as sharp or, um, spend time with data.

[00:20:59] You know, I think the, um, understanding how to put data to use, um, I, I see that evolving

[00:21:05] and that that's a, you know, back to the skills conversation, a skillset that we're making sure

[00:21:10] that, that we're seeing more and more, um, of an appetite for, uh, in HR.

[00:21:15] They're realizing that to your point, they're a business leader who happens to sit in HR.

[00:21:19] So you need to understand your business and your business is your people, but it is all

[00:21:23] the aspects of that.

[00:21:24] And it isn't, you know, growth, just growth and development.

[00:21:27] Right.

[00:21:27] Right.

[00:21:28] Like that's important because then you're building skills, which then allow you to do other things.

[00:21:31] But it is, it is the like, okay, do I have what I need?

[00:21:34] How do I, how do I manage that?

[00:21:36] Right.

[00:21:37] Right.

[00:21:37] Yeah.

[00:21:37] To the most effectiveness too, right.

[00:21:39] To the best outcomes.

[00:21:40] And then I think the other piece too, that, that is important for is that, you know, in

[00:21:43] HR sits a lot of the compliance and regulatory things that they have to manage.

[00:21:47] And so that's, that's another piece of the business that I think, you know, you have

[00:21:51] to get better, you need the data and you have to have more maybe business acumen to, to, to

[00:21:57] manage.

[00:21:57] Yeah.

[00:21:58] Yeah.

[00:21:58] Sometimes I wonder if HR doesn't organizationally limit itself because, you know, we're very

[00:22:03] familiar with the idea that you have a business partner for HR and, and already you're, you're

[00:22:10] slotting yourself into a different, into a, a different part of the organization, somewhat

[00:22:15] limited and viewing yourself, you know, as HR as something, you know, a little bit more

[00:22:20] niche than having that big responsibility as, as you were describing.

[00:22:25] So maybe organizationally, there's some things to think about that might possibly impact the

[00:22:29] culture or the way that we approach.

[00:22:31] I think it is a bit of a mindset, you know, and, and I think you're right.

[00:22:35] It's like, how did we, you should have a little more swag, right?

[00:22:38] Yeah.

[00:22:38] Right.

[00:22:38] Yeah.

[00:22:39] Yeah.

[00:22:41] Can't be elevated if you don't elevate yourself a little bit.

[00:22:44] Yeah.

[00:22:44] Yeah.

[00:22:44] Well, I want to see the HR practitioners and payroll practitioners really display their skill

[00:22:48] because they have rich skills.

[00:22:50] They're incredibly adaptive human beings.

[00:22:52] They have gone through the hardest of things for organizations with the limited, limited

[00:22:58] tools to do so.

[00:22:59] And now it's all here.

[00:23:00] But what I worry about is, is HR has always been slow at adopting and now the innovation

[00:23:05] is coming so aggressively fast.

[00:23:07] It is coming really fast.

[00:23:07] It's almost head spinning.

[00:23:09] Yeah.

[00:23:09] How, how, like, how do we reconcile that?

[00:23:11] How do we, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:23:13] Just how do we get everybody in the, you know, on a modern solution and, and, and really

[00:23:16] in that opportunity space?

[00:23:17] I think first of all, you need a strategy, right?

[00:23:20] Yeah.

[00:23:20] Like you need to understand like what, like, how am I, how are my, are we going to approach

[00:23:23] it?

[00:23:24] Why are we doing this?

[00:23:25] Yeah.

[00:23:25] Yeah.

[00:23:26] You know, cause I, I think everybody needs to be bought into the why rather than, you

[00:23:30] know, we talk about skills conversations, but why are you, why do you need to be a skill

[00:23:33] based, you know, organization?

[00:23:35] So I think, you know, I think that's the first piece.

[00:23:38] And then I think there's the kind of a, like, how do we shift the mindset?

[00:23:42] You know, how do we get people to, to sort of understand where we are?

[00:23:45] Then there's a, you know, an operational readiness that needs to happen.

[00:23:50] Like, you know, where are you from a data standpoint?

[00:23:53] Like, are you, are you ready to, to take this on or what, what do you need to do to get that

[00:23:57] in order?

[00:23:58] And then from an operational readiness, like what frameworks do we have in place to, to

[00:24:02] make this work?

[00:24:03] So it's a multi-step process really to get people in there, but you're absolutely right.

[00:24:09] It is moving so fast.

[00:24:11] It's head spinning.

[00:24:12] It is head spinning, but I think this is also an opportunity for organizations to make sure

[00:24:18] they're really taking advantage of their partners, you know, the people who help them.

[00:24:22] So like Workday, you know, they take advantage of what we know, the customers that we've worked

[00:24:26] with, you know, because I think there's a lot of questions too, when we think about AI,

[00:24:30] you know, ethical and responsible AI, there are concerns.

[00:24:32] And so you need to make sure you're working with a trusted partner who will help guide you

[00:24:38] in, in those aspects and also share what, what we've seen that works and doesn't work so that

[00:24:42] we can take on, like, you don't have to do everything on your own, right?

[00:24:46] Take advantage of the expertise that's out there.

[00:24:48] And that includes the risk too, right?

[00:24:49] I think that's some of the attraction of having things embedded and part of the foundation

[00:24:53] is there's some innate risk there.

[00:24:56] And you're looking for your partners to, you know, step up to the plate in the areas of risk

[00:25:01] that correspond to them so that you can manage the other areas of risk, right?

[00:25:05] Exactly.

[00:25:05] Yeah.

[00:25:06] So that's a beautiful, you brought up a beautiful point here to kind of round things out and

[00:25:09] that's AI, right?

[00:25:10] Like obviously it's the buzz.

[00:25:12] Yes.

[00:25:12] You guys put out some amazing stuff.

[00:25:14] We're going to break down on our show soon with Workday Illuminate.

[00:25:17] Very cool.

[00:25:18] I thought you guys were very transparent and you always have been really incredibly transparent.

[00:25:21] Yeah, you have to be, right?

[00:25:22] You have to be.

[00:25:23] Right, yeah.

[00:25:23] I love that.

[00:25:24] Especially when we're talking AI.

[00:25:25] Yeah.

[00:25:25] Right?

[00:25:25] Yeah.

[00:25:26] It's all about setting the bar.

[00:25:27] Yes.

[00:25:28] I know.

[00:25:28] But what would be, say your advice to those that are out there kind of like starting the path,

[00:25:33] right?

[00:25:33] I mean, like I said, a lot of cautious optimism, a lot of opportunity.

[00:25:38] Yeah.

[00:25:38] But where do we start?

[00:25:39] Like I've seen a lot of companies.

[00:25:40] I've interviewed, you know, firms that are, bigger firms obviously, that are already maybe

[00:25:44] using it in their customer or their product experience, but not maybe necessarily yet

[00:25:48] in the back office.

[00:25:49] And that's probably next for them, which would be great because they've had some learnings.

[00:25:52] They've failed and tried and, you know, done some things.

[00:25:55] But what would be your advice to leaders that maybe are a little, we like to call them

[00:25:59] paralyzed, you know, with what to do?

[00:26:01] Yeah.

[00:26:01] Like, do you need an AI roadmap?

[00:26:03] You know, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:26:05] Yeah.

[00:26:05] I think there's a, it's hard to know where to start.

[00:26:11] Right?

[00:26:11] And I think that's sort of the, I would say you have to figure out how to get started

[00:26:16] because it is moving so fast that if you just like, you can't wait for it to be like,

[00:26:22] let's see how this thing goes.

[00:26:23] Right?

[00:26:24] Because you will be left behind.

[00:26:26] And so I think it is the, you know, make a plan to figure out like, how do we get started?

[00:26:30] But it does have to be rooted in a strategy.

[00:26:32] Yeah.

[00:26:32] Right?

[00:26:33] Into like, what are the biggest things that we're trying to solve and start there?

[00:26:37] Yeah.

[00:26:37] You know?

[00:26:38] And why?

[00:26:38] I think the why is important too.

[00:26:39] The why really matters.

[00:26:40] Yeah.

[00:26:40] It is.

[00:26:40] And the why matters not just for how you're going to get it done.

[00:26:43] Yeah.

[00:26:44] But it matters from a cultural readiness too.

[00:26:46] Like your organization, like where are they?

[00:26:48] Like, are they ready to do this or not?

[00:26:50] And it is a mindset.

[00:26:51] You have to like be willing to, you know, do things and do things quickly and experiment

[00:26:57] and fail.

[00:26:58] Yeah.

[00:26:58] And then try again.

[00:27:01] But, you know, I think the back to, you know, make sure you work on your core competency

[00:27:07] and you take advantage of the others to get that right.

[00:27:12] Yeah.

[00:27:12] And in the end, AI is a tool, right?

[00:27:14] Exactly.

[00:27:14] It's a tool in the tool set.

[00:27:15] Yeah.

[00:27:15] And, you know, you can obtain that tool or tap into that tool yourself directly or via

[00:27:21] partners or, you know, like many, many different ways.

[00:27:24] So, so the things that we've done with practitioners have absolutely said, figure out what it is

[00:27:29] you're trying to achieve first.

[00:27:31] Exactly.

[00:27:31] As you said, Christina, and then, you know, let's look at and explore what, how you can

[00:27:37] get to that.

[00:27:37] And then there's maybe one other thing I would add to like the cultural readiness is

[00:27:41] you need to make sure your partner has kind of the same values that you do, right?

[00:27:45] That's a great point.

[00:27:46] There's trust, you know, where I think particularly as we think about the fear and risk around AI,

[00:27:52] responsible and ethical AI is absolutely critical.

[00:27:55] And so making sure that you are comfortable with that.

[00:27:58] Yeah.

[00:27:58] For sure.

[00:27:59] Are your clients looking to you for that sort of guidance on how to be successful with AI?

[00:28:05] Or how is that relationship going as buyers are out there, you know, having questions

[00:28:09] and saying, hey, what do we, you know, what does this mean for us in our industry?

[00:28:12] So they are, I would say our customers are at different ends of the spectrum, right?

[00:28:16] Right.

[00:28:17] Where we, I mean, it's like almost every company is a technology company today, whether or not

[00:28:22] they're in, you know, financial services or manufacturing or whatever it is, right?

[00:28:26] It's a great point.

[00:28:27] They definitely, healthcare, they definitely are more technology type companies.

[00:28:30] So, so we do hear a lot for, you know, like they're, as you said, they're using AI in

[00:28:35] other parts of their business and now they're trying to figure out where does this fit?

[00:28:38] But they're also trying to plan for if Workday is going to do it, you know, they want to

[00:28:43] know what we're doing and where we're going.

[00:28:45] Right.

[00:28:46] Because then maybe they'll just wait for us to do these, these sorts of things.

[00:28:50] Right.

[00:28:50] So they're looking new to lead them in a lot of ways in that way.

[00:28:53] So yeah, that's a, that's a huge responsibility.

[00:28:55] It is.

[00:28:55] You're shaping the future of work.

[00:28:57] That's back at the beginning.

[00:28:58] It is.

[00:28:58] It is a big responsibility.

[00:29:00] Super fun.

[00:29:00] Yeah.

[00:29:00] And of course, I mean, like you want to, you want to compliment.

[00:29:03] No pressure.

[00:29:04] Compliment and supplement each other.

[00:29:06] Let's not have a lot of overlaps, right?

[00:29:07] Hey, my team can build a killer payroll.

[00:29:10] So I'm like, we can do anything.

[00:29:12] We can do it.

[00:29:12] We can do it.

[00:29:13] Yes.

[00:29:13] You guys have, you have a great team.

[00:29:15] You have a great team.

[00:29:15] So look, I want to round this out.

[00:29:17] We are at HR Tech Conference.

[00:29:18] This has been fantastic, Christine.

[00:29:19] I could just go on and on.

[00:29:20] I know.

[00:29:21] I think we could talk for hours.

[00:29:22] I know.

[00:29:22] I know.

[00:29:23] I want to round this out.

[00:29:24] They won't let us.

[00:29:24] They're going to kick us out.

[00:29:25] I know.

[00:29:25] Yeah.

[00:29:25] Maybe a light prognostication.

[00:29:27] So one of the things that we, our audience really loves every year we do a where HR

[00:29:32] should focus for 2020, whatever.

[00:29:34] This is 2025 or heck coming up on.

[00:29:36] If you had advice for, for CHROs out there, where would you say you're going to want to

[00:29:41] focus intently in 2025?

[00:29:44] Well, I mean, AI seems like a big, big bucket, right?

[00:29:47] But I think, you know, AI from a standpoint of, you know, how does it help you to become

[00:29:52] kind of a destination workplace?

[00:29:54] So you're attracting the right talent.

[00:29:56] How does it help you to have more agile and fluid talent?

[00:29:59] So you have the right talent in the right place, internal mobility, using the contingent

[00:30:04] work.

[00:30:04] Like what's the right, you know, workers.

[00:30:06] So like a total, total talent strategy.

[00:30:10] And then you really, how does it help drive your bottom line?

[00:30:13] You know, cause we, everybody gets, is going to be held accountable to that.

[00:30:16] So I would say, you know, how do they think about using AI to help drive those things?

[00:30:22] Those things.

[00:30:23] Yeah.

[00:30:24] Exciting.

[00:30:24] All right.

[00:30:25] Neither of us have a pencil to start our list of our episode for 2025.

[00:30:29] We've got to prepare that.

[00:30:30] Interestingly, that's one of our most adopted episodes or downloaded, I guess you could

[00:30:33] say is that our, our prognostication on the next year.

[00:30:36] So we'll have to pull together some of that from all of our experts this year to help us

[00:30:40] out.

[00:30:41] So Christina, this has been outstanding.

[00:30:43] Thank you so much for joining us.

[00:30:44] Thank you for having me.

[00:30:45] This is great.

[00:30:45] And having us on this amazing bus.

[00:30:46] Thank you for joining us on the bus.

[00:30:48] Yeah.

[00:30:48] This is awesome.

[00:30:48] If anybody has the opportunity to check out the forever forward bus, uh, in your town

[00:30:53] or your event, I highly recommend it.

[00:30:55] And, um, yeah.

[00:30:56] How, how can we get in touch with you?

[00:30:57] If, if you'd like, uh, you and Workday, how do we reach out if folks want to, want to

[00:31:01] ask questions?

[00:31:01] Uh, well, uh, you could come to our, to workday.com and, and find information there and we can certainly

[00:31:08] point you to, uh, to the right place from there.

[00:31:11] Awesome.

[00:31:11] Awesome.

[00:31:12] I love it.

[00:31:12] I love it.

[00:31:13] Well, thank you so much.

[00:31:13] It's been great.

[00:31:14] Have a great rest of the show, everybody.

[00:31:15] All right.

[00:31:16] Bye.