Making Remote Work, Work with Special Guest Rick Hammell

[00:00:11] 2.0, I'm Pete Tiliacas and as always, I'm joined by the legendary Julie Fernandez.

[00:00:16] Welcome Julie.

[00:00:17] Thanks Pete.

[00:00:18] I'm glad to be here again.

[00:00:19] We've been recording quite a bit lately, so excited for a really cool conversation today.

[00:00:24] Yes, and our guest this week is really long overdue.

[00:00:26] I've been dying to have him on.

[00:00:28] Please welcome HR Tech Executive, Global Workforce Expert, the founder of Adless, and more recently

[00:00:33] the founder and CEO at Helios Mr. Rick Hammell.

[00:00:37] Welcome Rick.

[00:00:38] Welcome.

[00:00:38] Welcome to the speaker.

[00:00:39] Thanks Julie.

[00:00:40] I'm super excited to be here and we can't wait to jump into this conversation.

[00:00:44] Yeah, yeah, I'm excited.

[00:00:45] I want to learn about what you guys have been building.

[00:00:46] I know there's been some really interesting topics in the news around remote work and maybe

[00:00:52] global workforce challenges and wanted to dig into some of that and see how you guys are solving

[00:00:56] that and what your thoughts are on these things because I think there's a lot of controversy still around this.

[00:01:00] But one of the things we ask all of our guests Rick and it's interesting.

[00:01:04] I feel like a lot of the answers are very, very similar is how did you get into HR and why in the world do you stay in HR?

[00:01:10] Thankfully that you do.

[00:01:12] Well, I'll tell you my journey started actually pretty young, so I was working in actually a hotel chain and I was working in front of us

[00:01:20] and while I was going to school.

[00:01:22] And I realized there were a couple of things that were happening at that particular hotel that I felt like employees needed to be protected

[00:01:29] with that makes sense.

[00:01:30] And as I've gotten promoted through other avenues within operations, I realized that I really want to have a focus in HR.

[00:01:38] And my HR focus was really to help people and be able to support it to make sure companies were doing things the right way.

[00:01:44] So I always say my QLU's heel is nothing that drives me within business is a way to help people

[00:01:51] including at what we'll want opportunities for them.

[00:01:53] If that's in expanding their businesses or if it's just making sure that they are in the safe environment within their work environment, that was really important to me.

[00:02:01] So I've gotten HR that way and it just evolved over time over the years but the core foundations really just to help.

[00:02:08] Yeah, yeah, and so staying is the helping people part right?

[00:02:11] It sounds like that is correct.

[00:02:13] A man on a mission.

[00:02:14] I know I love it.

[00:02:15] You get the feel good bug, Rick.

[00:02:18] I think we find a lot of folks enjoy the challenge, right?

[00:02:22] And they find that this isn't what maybe the external world thinks they have HR and the impact it can have.

[00:02:28] So love that you made your way here and really appreciate that you've managed to stay or intended to stay.

[00:02:33] A lot of folks I feel like they try to escape and it pulls them right back in so awesome man.

[00:02:38] It's a good day HR is, you know, it's not for the faint heart but I will say that we are able to accomplish a lot.

[00:02:44] It's not just the people department.

[00:02:46] I mean, I'm not just pushing people or really creating strategy and I think that's fulfilling.

[00:02:51] Yeah, driving business outcomes I think is so important and any of these business functions but for HR right people is where you know kind of the rubber meets the road if you will.

[00:02:59] So yeah, I love it.

[00:03:00] Look, Rick, I wanted to talk to you about some other recent sort of hybrid working headlines right?

[00:03:07] It feels like there's been so many lately.

[00:03:08] One of which is the recent I'm sure you probably saw it right Google's ex CEO Eric Schmidt made the statement in a I think he was presenting in front of Stanford University.

[00:03:19] And he mentioned, you know, this idea that Google has been hindered by remote work right and that their ability to compete with some of the more emerging startups like maybe an open AI has more or less suppressed their innovation right and he actually quoted as saying that Google decided work life balance going home early and working from home was more important than winning.

[00:03:38] Which is a very very controversial statement. I don't I don't agree with it, but Rick what do you think about this?

[00:03:44] I mean, I think this is very indicative of some of the trends that we've seen coming out of the C-Sweets in the attitude towards remote work and I have a theory about it, but would love to just hear your thoughts on this.

[00:03:54] Of course, so far, let's talk about the elephant in the room.

[00:03:56] This is how to change since 2021. They have to figure out what type of culture they're going to have, what's worked in the past may not work in the future.

[00:04:06] I remember when we got into the COVID kind of error and we had to inform employees at the work from home and it was fighting tooth and nail if you remember that people did not want to work from home at that point.

[00:04:17] The employees basically realized that they had more time to submit their families, they were able to get more things done and they were able to that hour hour and a half of their community.

[00:04:26] They can get started and they can end their days in the early or so that eight hour day was always felt like a 10 hour day and now they're actually operating in eight hour day and they're seeing their dreams done.

[00:04:36] On the flip set of that organizations, both positive measures, they've had to figure out how to make sure they call us the teens to be able to understand the vision, the goal, things that were a lot easier to do.

[00:04:47] As you already know, you can do a lot more in person than you can do on a Zoom or a teens call.

[00:04:52] But organizations have been the most successful and have been able to look at other opportunities to bring together teams to make sure everyone's on the same page.

[00:05:03] I've never seen technology to be able to do that.

[00:05:05] So I think there's a there's a poem called What He's Saying, but in the fact that he said look they're going to choose work like balance over winning.

[00:05:14] I don't think that's a good statement.

[00:05:15] I think the statement should have said look we're going to invest into our teens and our teens are going to that return investment into the team.

[00:05:22] It's going to allow us to win on in the long run.

[00:05:25] I think that there's a way that you can do that through cooperation.

[00:05:28] I think there's a way that you can do that through innovation and technology.

[00:05:33] I don't think you have to have one for the other.

[00:05:35] I think you can have both the most strategic or the most innovative organizations are going to be successful in both.

[00:05:42] They're going to find a way to balance up their stuff and then be able to do that and still be innovative and expand my organization.

[00:05:48] We were very much in offices in the past pre-COVID and then we had to figure out how to be successful outside of that.

[00:05:56] And during COVID, we continued to grow.

[00:05:58] We grew 48, 68, 70% over time being remote.

[00:06:03] We realized this success behind that.

[00:06:05] So it's just how are you going to be able to catch up and be able to be able to transform your organizations at that moment.

[00:06:14] I think the most successful in something it would do successfully.

[00:06:17] The ones who feel like it's a challenge, I think they need to really look at and tag into their people and ask questions and how you think they can give people to be successful.

[00:06:27] And I will not environment.

[00:06:28] Yeah, I think that's perfectly said.

[00:06:31] And I don't think that there are, I think what you're alluding to there was that one size fits all really isn't a great idea.

[00:06:36] It's got to be very, I mean, you can't be agile if you don't think agile.

[00:06:40] I suppose in the beginning, right?

[00:06:41] So you've got to kind of have that what's best for our organization, our environment, our culture.

[00:06:47] But I think this idea of like drawing a line in the stand is really, really dangerous.

[00:06:50] And we've seen some firms doing that, right?

[00:06:52] I think IBM did it.

[00:06:53] I've heard some others are doing it.

[00:06:55] And I actually think that there, some of this is rooted in the fact that I think that many of the leaders that are out there,

[00:07:01] especially ones that are in the latter generations for the lack of the other ways to say it,

[00:07:09] lack the skill set to actually run and manage and successfully lead a hybrid workforce.

[00:07:15] I actually don't think it's all the workforce's problem.

[00:07:18] I think some of it is the leadership aren't positioned with the skills to lead in this new hybrid environment.

[00:07:23] And I think it's something that we, it's like we know it but we don't want to talk about it, right?

[00:07:27] And no one ever calls out the executives for that, it's just, well, you know, it's not right for us or it's this or it's that,

[00:07:33] but it's never, it's never the skill set of leadership, right?

[00:07:35] Do you think that's a gap out there?

[00:07:37] Look, let's, let's be frank about this.

[00:07:41] As a leader, I go by a playbook that I'm used to.

[00:07:44] I've learned, I've evolved and I know it works well for me and how I want to run my organization.

[00:07:51] And so yes, I think to your point is it's fun, it's new, the ability to evolve sometimes,

[00:07:58] especially depending on where you are in your career, but that could be a challenge.

[00:08:02] Look, I think that the data has shown that a lot of businesses that have been a lot more successful with remote work.

[00:08:10] They've been able to be a dollar scale investment piece of office pieces.

[00:08:13] They've been able to reinvest into the business and you know increase profits behind that.

[00:08:18] You know, bringing a really good technology, automater, things get more work done.

[00:08:22] But you're actually right, I think it's an, it's an mentality that this is, this is my playbook.

[00:08:26] I've always had this playbook. This is how I want to operate and this does not, this is not fit within that kind of criteria.

[00:08:33] I think leaders have to look at that and go, okay, I'm going to look at a mirror and say what can I do to be better or what can we do as a leadership team to see how we can support that and still be successful.

[00:08:44] And in some cases, look, and this is going to be a controversial statement I say this.

[00:08:49] Sometimes you have to say, is the business, is the business evolving past my level of leadership? Is it the right time to pass the baton.

[00:08:58] Yeah, to make sure that business we take into the next level.

[00:09:01] We see that a lot, right?

[00:09:03] Do anything anything you thought on this, what you see out there on the front lines?

[00:09:06] Yeah, you know, as Rick was talking, I thought of all sorts of things, right?

[00:09:10] One of the things that I've, I think I've mentioned before even is doing work remotely and doing something that is an established process.

[00:09:19] One thing, COVID tested everybody in that respect.

[00:09:23] But then doing work that involves change, change management or rejiggering how things go, you know, that's not everybody's capacity and some folks have it in their DNA.

[00:09:36] You know, a lot of consultancies do, you know, where used to doing those things and being agile.

[00:09:41] But agile is something that there's a lot of resistance to and being able to actually change how you do work and do it without much face to face.

[00:09:50] I think it's the bigger element of challenge.

[00:09:53] Yeah, so that's the first thing you made me think.

[00:09:55] And then I do think there are elements of, you know, fairness in the workplace.

[00:10:01] So, you know, how do you address the obvious ones are, you know, manufacturing books have to be on the shop floor.

[00:10:07] Usually to do their jobs. Other folks don't, but what if somebody has a work style that is really amenable to remote work and someone else just doesn't have that in our discipline.

[00:10:17] They work best when they're not remote, you know, you have to be able to protect yourself from unfair practices.

[00:10:24] Let's say or figure out how do you navigate that and how do you navigate the fact that, you know, I know I'm seeing an increasing number of folks that are employed full time somewhere.

[00:10:34] And yet you know them to be doing gig work on the site and I think if they're employers for to know, they would be rather disappointed with that because it's probably not relegated to evening hours.

[00:10:46] So there's just so many angles right to discuss about working remotely or working in the office.

[00:10:52] And I think Julie, we need to tie that. I agree with that 100%. There's there's never going to be a right size if it's all for businesses every business has its own culture and every time you add a new person on new country or that kind of thought you put your house out of all from that.

[00:11:07] I do agree that creating equitable opportunities for all employees. So there are organizations, for example, like manufacturing that are going to require employees to be physically there and so how do you allow the office staff to work remotely and not the manufacturing staff.

[00:11:27] And you have to have policies and procedures and and honestly frank conversations with teams and poll your teams to see what, you know, how they feel about that.

[00:11:36] There are to your point there are people who work better in office sites.

[00:11:41] Yeah. And so that hybrid work even with my within my own organizations we sort of individuals that come into offices.

[00:11:48] And because they, you know, they don't either have a space at home or they have children at home or they just need to space. They want to get out. They want to have that disconnect from their home and work like so I think looking at it from a objective perspective where employees can help choose that hybrid component will be very successful.

[00:12:09] But I do think that we may have one size fits all. I think that's the organization. I think being up front with that manufacturing right, we're just in the office all day and that's just what we do.

[00:12:20] I think you have to, you know, as a culture, it can question yourself, does that make sense for us? Does it make sense for the staff if it makes sense for everybody how do we make sure we implement that in this very crystal clear our policies and procedures.

[00:12:31] How much this culture play a role Rick? I mean, in what you're doing when it comes to that right. I mean obviously it has to fit the culture has to fit the mission but any thoughts on that.

[00:12:41] It really just making sure that everyone's alive with the culture. I mean there are a lot of studies out there that employees have maybe felt disconnected because the typical forms of communication on vision mission has our was, you know, in a form and a lot of Monday morning.

[00:12:57] And now it's an email and some people don't really connect to emails the way they would do with someone in person.

[00:13:04] And so just I think organizations are having to find a way to better communicate and make sure employees are involved and understand what's going on.

[00:13:12] And we went from having a town hall on once a quarter to having them every other week just to make sure employees were very much involved and understood what's going on.

[00:13:23] We also created forms where employees asked anonymous questions and then we brought that to the forum when we had our town halls.

[00:13:30] And that's what really successful for us and that's got our employees engaged and connected to the business.

[00:13:37] But again, not a re-business as a ball from that but getting that feedback from staff of what's your best way of communication.

[00:13:45] What's the way that you want to be communicated to? We have to ask those questions and I think leaders also have to be open to criticism and better approach as well.

[00:13:54] No, agreed. Agreed. Yeah, and I think it what bumps me out is I think firms should be looking at remote work is more of a flexibility enable me.

[00:14:03] And I hate to say it but I think there's this idea that there's a lack of productivity when people are remote and from mention the research that I've done that's not entirely true.

[00:14:12] Yeah, people can abuse it sure people can kind of get lost out there.

[00:14:15] But the reality is like you said, there are people who fundamentally thrive in that sort of I know I do. I've worked remote for now close to I was thinking about it yesterday over 15 years in some capacity and I really have learned to thrive in that but you're right. It's not it's not for everyone.

[00:14:29] But rather than look at as a flexibility enable it's almost being used as kind of like for example we saw an article recently about maybe return to office or layoffs in sheet clothing, right? You know just a false flag so to speak, right.

[00:14:42] But what do you think about that, right? Like balancing that sort of flexibility enable with needing to manage what the business needs are and at the same time accommodate, you know, the outcomes that the business has to have and make everyone happy.

[00:14:54] What do you think about that is return to office a layoff and sheet clothing and how do you bounce that with flexibility?

[00:15:00] Yeah, I think it's a really good question to ask and I think I'm not going to be a blanket statement on that.

[00:15:06] Every business is a little bit different. I think business is also being strategic as well of how how do we get people back in the space and if they don't want to be part of that vision mission.

[00:15:15] There's a look with this is what we, this is the culture that we're looking at building. If you don't want to be part of that we understand but this is where the direction we're going and so does that feel like layoffs.

[00:15:25] You know, look I think every business is looking at the inside of me in a certain way, but I also think that if a business is looking to build a vision and mission within your organization they're going to say very clearly we need everyone on the boat.

[00:15:38] Everyone in the boat is going to be going north and so if we have individuals who are not looking to be part of that culture or be part of that overall strategy.

[00:15:48] We're going to be way that we'll intending it to be and we can't have you as part of that so I can understand from that perspective where there is something turnover from that person there but I'm not sure that a business is being malicious from that.

[00:16:02] I think that we understand that hey, we're going to have some turnover from that and if you have some turnover it may be beneficial for the business but I'm not sure it's actually possibly awesome.

[00:16:13] Yeah, yeah, well hopefully not right.

[00:16:15] I know you'll post in the link to the article that you're mentioning but yeah, this folks maybe haven't seen it like it literally was a short article that was written that said our companies using our return to office in hopes that folks will leave because they don't want to do that.

[00:16:32] And then it had a couple of interesting other trends that it called out as well from certain large organizations like Google just going to factor in their willingness to be in person into their performance evaluation right or just kind of like all these different positions that are being you know spoken and of course we know oftentimes they're retracted to or hate.

[00:16:55] I'm like a great idea but then they're not and so just for that alone I would just encourage folks who just want to see some of this stuff to look at your notes you show notes and check out here.

[00:17:06] Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely share it.

[00:17:08] I mean, I think it's a good idea for everyone to kind of look at these things and see what you know what sort of being out there and how companies are going about this and you know the interesting thing about return to office.

[00:17:16] I've talked to some, I would say earlier career folks like just anecdotally in some you know what's this is called research.

[00:17:23] And I find that a lot of folks are saying like well I'm coming back to the office but I find it's just a few of us in the office and we're largely just communicating on zoom right well what's the point of that if you're coming into the office right you ought to be together and make the most of that.

[00:17:37] So I almost wonder if there's a there's a management layer and a process there certainly should be for return to office because to me that's a bit of a change right there's to be some change management to that.

[00:17:47] But I think you have to give people the tools to be able to be successful in that environment and Rick I know this is near and dear to your heart.

[00:17:53] This is something that you're you know I believe is your mission over there at Helios right like.

[00:17:57] How does technology help with this you know how do you how do you use technology? How do you guys seeing companies use technology to support them in this way.

[00:18:04] Yeah, I think that one it's just engagement as well. I think you know when we think about Helios and what we're doing here is we don't want employees just to log in just to look at the pace lip or to you.

[00:18:16] You know put their PTO in place but we want is that you know this is a true little workforce management platform where your communication your community building your your languages are there so that you're fostering this engagement with your role team.

[00:18:32] And all aspects of kind of the life cycle from an employee perspective. Yeah, and so we think that look the biggest challenges that we found with Google Mountain work it are making sure everyone knows you know when someone's working.

[00:18:46] Make sure that they're respectful those hours especially when a global perspective you know US companies working with individuals in the European Asia or other other other time zones.

[00:18:55] They were expecting them to work their business hours and so you know we brought some technology into this where it's you know identifying you know employees say look I'm working but this is these are my hours or it's language as hey these languages they speak.

[00:19:08] So if the companies communicating mission vision goals that can be translated directly to platform and display to be played and their local language as well outside of English.

[00:19:19] We you know we're very much focused on automation tears. So how do you make sure you're building culture by building trust within your teams.

[00:19:27] So as you're onboarding your employees making sure that they are confident in the technologies solutions that you're choosing and that it's really compliant and you're explaining benefits or contracts or just information is collectively within the platform and it's not happy to create a back and forth with employees.

[00:19:45] So what was the automation we really focused on that we got a lot of feedback from beta testers and analyst groups who basically came back and said look.

[00:19:55] Here are the challenges that the global workforce is seen and companies who have hybrid or global or remote teams.

[00:20:01] How do you automate this how do you shoot mine doesn't make it feel like one organization like they how they would feel they were onboarding in office.

[00:20:08] Yes, you remember how that is. You know pretty now talking from long where you have you make sure they feel the one fuzzy that processes so we were very much focused and bringing that together building community with our systems and allow companies to really focus on what they do best which is going to be a business.

[00:20:25] Yeah, no absolutely it's a dead to the outstanding you know you mentioned earlier about you kind of made the comment about firms that are doing it right like what what do you what are the key characteristics that you see if companies that are getting remote work right and actually are

[00:20:38] driving you know we heard the comment by Eric Schmidt about you know the innovation is being suppressed but like how do you see companies what what are kind of the key things you see for those that are successful in maintaining that innovation and.

[00:20:51] Yeah, I think here's a thing I think you can't a leader cannot say I think there's already come earlier from the article earlier and it gave me chills on my body which was.

[00:21:01] The employees won't get promotions if they work remotely. Yeah, that's not right.

[00:21:06] Right. Yeah, you know you need to build a culture where everyone has an equity for opportunity for success.

[00:21:12] The person that's working remotely tends to begin with data shows this that they are working more they're getting things done faster.

[00:21:20] They're not focusing on I have to be ready for work I have to go to you know take a train or take a car and not going to be for now and I have.

[00:21:28] I can wake up I can be refreshed I'm not stressed out and now I can get right into work and get things done and I can do it in a more accurate time frame and I have the ability to do that and spend time with my family.

[00:21:41] That you're seeing the success that comes out of that so when you hear leaders say look they're not going to get promotions or those employees would not give up which you need to look we know we understand that the advice that comes with that it's always easier.

[00:21:56] When you are connected to someone any office space and you work with them on a day to day basis and you see what they do.

[00:22:02] But there is technology out there and by the way also just common sense like one on once with your leadership team or your team's to really understand what they're doing.

[00:22:13] But I hear leaders say those type of statements it tells me that they don't have the right fundamental they don't about the right foundational aspects of how they manage and work with their teams to find out what they need to find out to make sure the teams are supported and operating correctly.

[00:22:29] And again that that bothers me a little bit but I think that what is our building these different cultures they need to be able to say what are we looking to accomplish what tools do we need to make sure we're setting ourselves up.

[00:22:41] Yeah agreed yeah I like where you said that I mean I think again I think it comes back to the leadership right it's like creating that environment that process that you know methodology for how we're going to engage people and allow them to you know accommodate their flexible needs but also make sure we get down what we're doing.

[00:22:59] Or you know achieve our goals but like what advice would you give I think part of it is having regular communication.

[00:23:05] Having that open dialogue understanding each other because I think you're right like sometimes you you think of like front of mind back of mind right if someone's never in the office I never see them.

[00:23:14] Are they going to fade to the back of mind well that's my fault is the leader for not staying engaged with them but like how do you maintain a personal connection in this new world right if everybody's in and you know all over the place.

[00:23:24] It is hard on the leader right I mean you're already struggling a lot many of our front line leaders are how do you do that I had how do you keep that personal connection.

[00:23:32] I'm giving this advice from the many many mistakes and cuts and dreams that I have.

[00:23:37] Yeah in my career I've never been a perfect leader I've had I challenges to start my challenges but what I realized is that you walk in with respect you also give the time.

[00:23:48] Even today I had we had a new employee start here here as on a product team and she had reached out and said hey I looked at you know it's been you know talking for 10 minutes.

[00:23:57] I was absolutely thrilled for that I can I can act it I asked a little bit about herself and I found where we had some connection and I said this is how we're going to make sure that we can leverage she's from she's from Columbia my fiance's from Columbia so I was like oh that's how we're going to connect we were able to engage that way.

[00:24:16] And then build trust and another great foundation of how we're going to operate going forward but it's just building those relationships.

[00:24:23] I think sometimes if you look at sometimes people look at employees as members and not look at them as human we have to remember that they're human.

[00:24:31] And that there's always a way that you can engage with your teams find out what they're doing I'm not saying the front of your staff I don't think but well you have to have a line between that.

[00:24:42] But I think really understanding the human factor of who if they are what they may be going through and how you can leverage them to be a partner not just an employee in a manager but a partner in doing that this.

[00:24:55] The regular chat games if you want to one on one that's weekly or every other week start the conversation off by just checking how are you.

[00:25:02] How are you doing you know that extra five minutes and doing that you know I've seen it be more successful.

[00:25:08] I have been in the past that manager that jumped in said we're talking about business and that's what we're talking about and there is a it was very cold.

[00:25:15] I've had to learn about to be about a leader I have to make sure I invest in for the time of my teams and if I'm investing how my teams and my team's are going to invest in time.

[00:25:25] And that is always worked out very well since I changed that mentality years ago.

[00:25:30] Yeah, that's great advice. I love that you're right and I think you know I said I don't know if everyone's a fan of Gary Vee but I was listening him one time in a speech and he was saying as leaders you have to know what motivates every single one of your what what their lenses right what is the lens that they're bringing to work with which their.

[00:25:44] What you know the things they're trying to accomplish and helping them accomplish that in in context of what you're trying to accomplish I think it's it's a it's a give give take right a win win.

[00:25:54] Yeah, and I think thinking I have an idea that all the best talent is in your post.

[00:26:00] Yeah, we're going to get over those biases as well.

[00:26:03] You know when we talk about remote work you know allowing employees at the freedom to work wherever there are tools and solutions out there.

[00:26:11] I can employer for that solution like a global payroll or even contract or pay solution where employees now have the ability to truly work anyway at any time.

[00:26:21] And if a good leader can manage that team they can manage our specutions and the management's expectation for job it's done.

[00:26:28] I don't believe you have to have someone clock in and clock out that doesn't work for every and not every employer.

[00:26:33] But if you're talking about those who are working remotely the clocking clock out have to watch the clock from eight to five that's that's really old school mentality.

[00:26:43] If an employee is able to do the eight hours or work in work that I asked them to get done they got it done in six hours.

[00:26:49] Yeah, and you're the best of day you did exactly what I needed you do and I may give you more work going forward.

[00:26:55] But I know that I'm not going to hold them to the fire for six you know two extra hours if they already get that eight hours of work.

[00:27:03] Yeah, so it's just really you've got to be better about these leaders have to evolve to the world that we're getting in and if you certainly cannot even get to the gym.

[00:27:14] And if you don't change we don't involve those businesses are going to fail because the new generation that's coming in they came into the workforce with remote work.

[00:27:25] They came into the workforce having more flexibility and if they feel like they don't get that you're not even about a tough time finding talent to support your role.

[00:27:33] I'm not always the first to evolve but I think I have a whole pretty decently but I have to tell you you know they there's something about the concept of, you know, what should be gig work if you're really looking at bidding work by the job and you know your comment was if I give them six hours of work.

[00:27:50] There are eight hours and they get it done in six and you know like hey to a new right.

[00:27:55] And that might be okay if they're a gig worker but hey you know where that becomes really problematic for me is where then you and I think we do have a generational issue where there are generations growing up saying well this job's not that hard and so I can actually maintain two jobs and I'm going to get to be either one of them my full time and attention.

[00:28:14] And there have to be ways for companies to protect against that I'm not expecting somebody to take part of my full time salary you know work world and apply it to finding or doing full time.

[00:28:26] I'm not going to work for somebody else and that's balanced to me there's yes folks have to evolve and think more flexibly about work but I like to think that that's you know maybe it's flexible enough that when then that employee comes to and says my kids you know like Valentine's.

[00:28:43] Class thing is tomorrow at three and I have to leave well like isn't that good for that enough you know.

[00:28:51] To not be the the clock pound so you know that it goes both ways and to me that's the challenge of the new world in the new way of work is.

[00:29:00] Being flexible without either party taking advantage and how do you either each managers to be able to do what's right and what's fair and feel like they're getting a full shape.

[00:29:13] For the salary and yet you know move off of the you know clock it's clock time dying where they need to.

[00:29:22] I think we have to understand that some work especially with technology is getting done a lot faster you can see the data.

[00:29:29] I'm just a research from chat to you.

[00:29:32] Organizations who were allowing you know people are getting things done a lot faster with chat to you or even be I reporting then they essentially do manually like in itself I was actually waiting at reports and so this is half the vote but doesn't mean that you penalize the employee because they found better way to get it done.

[00:29:50] I think this is where that communication comes in and say okay look now we know that what historically may have taken for hours to do.

[00:29:59] Now it only takes you know 20 minutes to do so now I have a different expectation with my staff and in this role what they can actually accomplish having those strategic conversations.

[00:30:10] But also helps you go well do I need to have you know five people be the job I do I mainly to now because there's you know we have technology that you know make the job you don't want to.

[00:30:20] I agree it's it there's these to be a balance you don't want to please take advantage of you from that I've actually seen that happen before where I had an employee who.

[00:30:30] I was working for me and we found out they were also working another job as well that we communicated with them like hey you're supposed to be working join these hours for us.

[00:30:41] Now if you were taking off your family or your chicken off for everything and if that would be an opportunity to actually working at a job.

[00:30:47] We didn't come to the conclusion with that particularly that they were using a system and we had to let them go.

[00:30:55] Yeah but outside of that you know I don't want to penalize an employee for you know finally a better way to do it.

[00:31:02] I'm going to say now and I'm going to how to leverage you to do more because I still want that eight hours or I wanted to be closer to that but now I know that job that I expected maybe took four hours only you can has gotten down to 20 minutes maybe.

[00:31:16] I'm going to figure out a way that we can we can leverage you and your talent is your finding ways to do things more effectively.

[00:31:22] Yeah and even maybe initially right times the employee finding some of those tools in ways but generally it's the organization that's paying and investing in technologies and training and putting things in.

[00:31:33] And their the premise of that investment is absolutely that it makes the workers more efficient so.

[00:31:40] Bearn employee that's you know gotten tools or have tools or even found yourself how to use tools differently you can't perpetually expect that you know that that is a four hour book of work like your car mechanic right and so if I can now get it done in 15 minutes then I got a four hour give me food that you know for perpetuity.

[00:32:01] reasonable.

[00:32:03] It costs a lot to get into something things right yeah Rick what when you think about is you we talked a little bit about some you know how firms what is seen what the characteristics are of firms doing it right what are some of the mistakes you think companies make with remote work and how do you how do you measure that to make sure that you're doing it right.

[00:32:20] I think having to make it right keep you guys are okay hours in place I think it's important and then and then evaluating kind of what's been done we we felt in the studio so they've kind of a top down and bottom up gold management part of our platform.

[00:32:33] I'm where you can you come up with your company policies and goals with you for the year and then you're able to tie all of your organization and apartment goals to those people so for example.

[00:32:45] When I'm presenting to my staff and I say I need to do XYZ myself as you can see how that actually from a tree perspective how that actually ties up.

[00:32:54] If it doesn't tie up we actually tell our teams to challenge that and we say.

[00:33:00] Tell us you know that we have actually tested a salary to you a couple of them he goals and then what we're going over the staff and see how they were respond and it was exactly what we asked for yes is it's it hey.

[00:33:10] How does this time to my north star.

[00:33:13] My bonus is tied to the company you know success and my this goal because I'm going to do with my bonus right now focusing on this.

[00:33:20] I mean anything that we're doing is going to the north star so it was really the feedback map but we were able to manage that and visualize that.

[00:33:27] I mean keep that to our teams so they are this at how it's going to connect and then we were to measure that on a quarterly basis with them.

[00:33:34] Where we're at as a company and so what we saw that is started to spark within our organization was when if you weren't hitting a particular goal.

[00:33:43] Our staff were asking what are we not doing to make sure that we're that goals moving.

[00:33:47] So then they started to look at the goals that they were tied to that and then we started to see that that push to make sure that goal was going to be.

[00:33:56] So it's communicating having the right tool sets to it's a valid it which you're doing and then make sure that you check points if it's monthly or quarterly.

[00:34:05] And what those of all goals are to make sure you're something yourself.

[00:34:08] Yeah absolutely I love it it's good stuff man I appreciate the appreciate the insights I could keep asking you questions all day man.

[00:34:15] Just to kind of round this out I wanted to ask you one other thing because I actually think you know just seeing what you guys have been building and what you've been doing.

[00:34:22] I think you're doing a really interesting job of what I would call localizing culture right you put some real emphasis on the nuances of each country.

[00:34:31] You know holidays and our obvious are obvious but there's other things too but like how do you how do you do that how how do how does technology sort of help.

[00:34:41] To influence and shape culture and can you localize it entirely right is that a I don't know if that's the right way to say it right localizing culture but there is a certain localization element to every culture in a business and the experience of each employee but.

[00:34:53] But how does that where come in what your thoughts on that yeah the biggest feedback that we were getting a case days and I are data taskers and new to my analyst was that most of the HR technology out there is very US focus.

[00:35:06] Yes and so when you go abroad you're having to have employees take their culture and put them to the US box yeah square peg round home.

[00:35:18] Yeah that's that's not the best experience for employees actually feel like at least the feedback that we've gotten was a full-length second class citizens.

[00:35:26] Yeah because they realized that their culture sometimes are not being respected and how whether it used to in front of an employee on boarding perspective or even from just a utilization of how they actually leverage technology and that's a different market.

[00:35:39] And so what we were focused on was okay what's what similarities do all if most of the countries have regards to onboarding.

[00:35:48] So that 75 to 80% similarity and then we built that 20 to 25% delta that we focused on that and said how do we localize that so the way that an employee onboard is in Japan and then boy that employee onboard is in the UK can feel localized to them but it's still getting this kind of the essence from a.

[00:36:09] Business perspective from a administrator perspective of what that's going to how they can leverage data and how they can manage data within that within the technology platform but some employees felt very localized.

[00:36:20] Little things you know we were saying like even our announcements where companies can you know say happy birthday or happy anniversary in India we change happy birthday to happy returns day because that's what they say and then do.

[00:36:33] Right, so we made sure that little thing like little nuances like that were there so employees felt you know the coaches were respected languages are platform.

[00:36:45] Is launching 50 languages, but we can add a language within three days with an eye to find the final request is it so we built the other foundation pieces to us.

[00:36:55] And then also even with our AI we were very much focused on not AI not just being a tool or an HR assistant to our customers, but we were able to say how do we localize this for our client base.

[00:37:09] How do we make sure employees have access to that as well and ask questions so we've even we've got our foundational parts of our AI but we've also got our customizable pieces were clients can embed their own cultural nuances into our AI so that when employees have questions.

[00:37:25] It's within that same realm that the customer is used to communicating within their organization and then they've been localizing that as well it's language if it's kind of tone.

[00:37:36] We've been able to automate that within our AI environment as well so we really thought about the employee experience and even another thing people drew earlier even like our mobile app we decided not to launch a mobile app today.

[00:37:50] Because we wanted to see how our employees were engaging with the knowledge and what was important to them.

[00:37:58] And then looking at like that data on a global scale and in all the regional scale and then a country scale and then seeing what's going to be the best thing for a bug as we invest into our mobile technology.

[00:38:07] And also localizing some of the UI UX behind that as well for certain markets like Japan and China which you know it's very different than one of the West and kind of UI UX experience.

[00:38:19] So we really methodically thought about this a lot it's taken about a year, a little bit of a year to kind of build out our overall technology and other were launching in October we're super excited about even what the next evolution that's going to be as our clients get into the platform.

[00:38:35] Because we want to do one of the things that we want to make sure that we are working on it as well and continue to build on that local and local local experience.

[00:38:44] Yeah I love that HR is so local, it's so nuanced and it is so personal right I appreciate all that if you're taking there.

[00:38:51] So look what just kind of looking ahead like what can we expect from Helios and how do we connect with you guys.

[00:38:57] They can definitely look us up at the read of your dad, Philias.io and again that's Philias.io.

[00:39:04] You will also be able to read all of our very heavy on LinkedIn and we do these podcasts, we do a lot of webinars as well so they can definitely follow us on LinkedIn at Philias.io.

[00:39:15] And then you know just you know they can always reach out to me directly and I'm pretty active on LinkedIn as well.

[00:39:21] Again my mission is to help people so I always ask if anyone has any questions or anyone wants to reach out to me directly they can always do that to my LinkedIn.

[00:39:29] I tend to respond to everyone sometimes it takes a day or two to get back to you guys but it's really there I'm here to help people.

[00:39:35] I really want to make sure that we're creating a couple more opportunities and I've said that a few times but I think it's really important.

[00:39:41] You know when we built technology, we built structures and processes and procedures.

[00:39:46] I want to be able to have that first time founder CEO who's never hired a person in their life to that 20 year payroll professional being on platform being our solution and say I don't do this it's easy and it's made my job a lot easier.

[00:40:01] That's what I want to make sure we're accomplishing and but they actually have the ability to expand and manage the group.

[00:40:06] Yeah, I love it. I love it. I think it's an excellent mission and I appreciate your open door policy. I always love conversating with you and I learned something every time.

[00:40:15] Any okay so launching an October any sneak peeks for what we can what we can expect after that in 2025.

[00:40:21] Well there's there's a much to come.

[00:40:23] I will see that we've got some major integration partners that were going to be announcing at the beginning of the year so stay tuned to that but our goal here is to simplify global expansion global management of global team.

[00:40:35] So there are some major partnerships I'm not going to give them all away was still a step away and the integration's out but you will see that when we say we take into the next level we have taken this in the flow.

[00:40:46] Yeah, I'm excited. I think it looks great and I think it's going to be really really really differentiated piece of technology out there.

[00:40:52] So yeah, be sure to check it out and look for Rick and I we just did some recording some fun recordings here in Atlanta on Monday myself Rick.

[00:41:00] The ladies Jess and Jess from from Leap Jen at Mercer so there's going to be some cool content we just have really need conversations so look for that to Rick's insights are always super super helpful and Rick thank you man we we really appreciate you coming on.

[00:41:13] No pleasure. It's my thank you for having me go. It took too long man we got to bring you back. Hey, we made it in before I tell but before the launch so yeah, I'm doing it again.

[00:41:22] We did. We did.

[00:41:25] Thank you everyone and we will talk to you guys soon.