HR & Payroll Tech Marketplace News & Updates (Summer 2025, August)

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_01] Welcome everyone to another episode of the HR and Payroll 2.0 podcast. I'm Pete Tiliakis and as always, I'm joined by the legendary Julie Fernandez. Welcome, Julie.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_00] Thanks so much, Pete. I'm excited because we haven't had a news episode in a little while. So I feel like now that we do them separately, people start to wonder, wait, what's going on? And we're going to catch up.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And didn't we just say like in like an episode in the last three episodes, I think that we started one by saying there's not been a lot of news. And now in this week, it's just been an explosion. So.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_00] Absolutely.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. We've got to cover it, right? Do a little summer edition here and then get us ready to go out on the, you know, conference trail.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And I got a theory, you know, like there's always a bunch of stuff before the conference trail folks trying to make announcements about there's, you know, cool partnerships and the things they're doing together. And I know you're going to head us in that direction. So if you're wondering why it's blowing up all of a sudden, then that's a really good reason why everybody's winding up conference season.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01] Yep. That and I guess quarter two is probably closing for a lot of folks are trying to, you know, get that in before the, you know, make those earnings look good, I guess.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. And not to be, not to be outdone by success factors, right? They made a big acquisition, which we're going to talk about. That happened a few weeks ago, but Workday really, really went for the way we went for it here in Q2. Go for Brooke, right?

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Let's start with the first one, right? So the first acquisition is one that you may not, may not be terribly familiar with. I'm not all that familiar with it. They bought Flowwise AI, which is a low code platform that basically makes it easier to build AI agents, right? It gives you the chance to, or the capability to prototype. You can debug, evaluate, it gives you metrics. And if you think about it, if you go back to, I don't know if you remember, I can't remember if we did an episode on the innovation summit.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01] I think we did with Workday, but also if you kind of looked over the summer at some of the, some of the things that Workday were talking about and releasing, obviously AI and Agentic is double down city, right? All the HCMs are really laying into that. But Workday has their Workday build, right? And that is built by Workday. That's built by customers as well as partners. And we've, we've talked about some of those solutions that are coming out from like the Deloitte's of the world who are, who are creating things to help with sector specific challenges.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_01] We've got customers building some cool things and they're starting to enter those into the ecosystem for other customers to pick up. Plus you've got Workday building things. But in June, they unveiled the AI developer tool set, right? It gave developers the ability to customize and connect apps, AI agents, all that sort of thing.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_01] So yeah, this just falls right in line with that. And it really shapes what I think is going to be their, their AI play. And don't, don't forget, they also had the digital workforce management announcement, the agent system of record, I think they called it, that basically gave them, gives you the ability to centralize the management of all these agents.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01] So Workday is really building, you know, an opportunity for customers to take that and make it their own, right? You know, address those unique challenges, deal with those sector specific things, and really kind of fill the white spaces where Workday may not be able to build absolutely everything, right?

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And let's, just in layman terms, I think it's not a bad idea to, to, to say the idea behind acquiring FlowWise is that they're going to build those capabilities, those AI agent builder capabilities into the platform so that your Workday subscribers can use them themselves versus leveraging it behind the scenes back office to do their own builds, right?

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_01] Micro, micro, yeah, microservices technology, much, much more of a, of a easy experience, drag and drop kind of a thing versus, yeah, just a lot of empowerment, I think, for the end, the end organization to get creative.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_00] Right. So congratulations to FlowWise and Workday. And I bet, I bet there's more in our Workday hopper.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01] Oh yeah, lots more, lots more. So obviously last night I was coming back from a lunch or an evening happy hour, I guess you could say, with a couple of friends. Shout out to Susan Richards over at Sapient. We got together here when she comes to Atlanta. We always check in with each other. And yeah, this happened as I was walking out and was trying, kind of trying to read a little bit of this on the way to my car and then, and then dealt with it when I got home.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_01] But I think the massive news, right, which is a big, a big boost for Workday, but also a counter to what we are, we're going to talk about in a minute, which happened a few weeks ago with, with success factors and smart recruiters, is that Workday has added Paradox to their, to their platform. Now, if you're not familiar with Paradox, I'm, look, I don't play in the, in the recruiting space quite like I do HCM and payroll and other places, but I'm very familiar with, with some of these solutions and have briefed with them.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01] Um, you might remember Paradox had a chat bot very early on, very early, uh, called Olivia. Um, and really what they did was they, it sort of, uh, you know, modernized conversational recruiting and created a much better candidate experience. Um, and are bringing all that, you know, now to Workday, right? And when you think about all of the HCMs, I would say the big three, especially Workday, SuccessFactors, Oracle, they all had opportunities around talent management to advance.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_01] Recruiting was probably not the strongest for everybody. So yeah, it, this really matures Workday. It makes total sense. They've been very close for a long time. Um, and, and the other thing I think it brings to, I tweeted this is, I mean, look, a lot of AI experience too, a lot of leadership that has been through developing AI around recruiting and talent acquisition. And as you know, with the frontline play, uh, of Workday, the focus on that, this is going to play right into that frontline high volume hiring sort of, um, uh, element.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01] So I think what you're seeing here is, is really HCM is having to level up, right? And, and, uh, compete with these point solutions like Paradox and others that are out there filling gaps and fundamentally overlapping with Workday, but, and integrated and all that. Um, but now you can bring it in house and really, really boost that value prop if you're a full suite HCM buyer.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, that's, that's so interesting because, you know, when, when clients look at point solutions and try to identify strategically, what do I really need a best of breed or a point solution for? And what can I do in inside recruiting and onboarding is one of those. It's one where there's been so much innovation and other providers and compensation is another one, for example. And so, you know, companies that have gone through that evaluation and said, no, I can't do what I really want it to do.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_00] And this is strategic to my business may in the short term have, uh, more options to bring that into an integrated suite environment than they had before when they made the decision to go best of breed. So, um, any, any insights on your side or any experience on how long it takes Workday to kind of really like soak it in and make it, you know, kind of a native part of its experience?

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. That's, what's going to be interesting here. I think, and I, and I would encourage you to go look at some of my analyst peers have written some great articles. Matt Charney wrote one. I know Tim Sackett's got some points of view he's already put out. I'm sure Madeline Lerano will come out with something. I think she said she's going to put out an article. So you should absolutely go look at those. Uh, I don't know if some of those are out, if they are, I'll try to attach them in our description. Um, but I, that's a good question.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_01] I think we were, I'm waiting to see a briefing that we'll get an update on this, but I I'm curious to see how much will Workday consume Paradox versus trying to keep it as a standalone in the same way that success factors is doing with smart recruiters and not sort of kill its, uh, kill its mojo, but bring all the best parts to Workday. So I think that remains to be seen. And I think that's a real tricky part here is Workday doesn't want it to get lost right in, in the mix as, as maybe a, a Taleo did at an Oracle. Um, some would argue that Taleo sort of got lost.

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_01] IBM, right? Konexa got lost. Um, you don't want that. Right. And I think success factors, which we're going to talk about in a bit is, is really taking that approach and protecting the smart recruiters, uh, excuse me, solution and acquisition. So it'll be interesting to see if Workday does that, but I'm not positive yet because we haven't really had a briefing. Yeah.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_00] So put a pin in that topic. I think we're going to see it a few times in our news brief today.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_01] I think you're going to hear a lot of this. Yeah. About, about recruiting and talent just period in the market. But yeah, we got, we got a little bit more to talk about here.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_00] Okay. Take me to another one here.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01] All right. I got two more for Workday, man. They really were busy this week. So both of these are obviously financial wellness slanted and shout out to Jason Lee and the team over at Chime, uh, formerly Salt Labs, uh, now Chime Enterprise as part of Chime. Um, they've become a strategic Workday wellness partner, um, uh, for financial services. And really what we're talking about is an embedded experience, right? And that brings Chime workplace to the, to the Workday suite in a way that is highly embedded, highly, uh, highly integrated, frictionless, right?

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01] It's kind of always on or already on, if you will, uh, in terms of deploying that and, and deployment's probably a lot. I'm not going to say it's probably more of an activation, but really, um, I think the really interesting thing here is it's going to be featured in the Workday Employer Benefits Selection Portal. Um, and it's really going to be, um, uh, a big, a big boost, I think for, for Chime workplace. It's probably the biggest partnership I've heard them announce. Um, and don't forget, listen, we've talked about this before, I think, but Chime is more than earned wage access, right? That's right.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01] They've got a play that says, look, we need to be multi-generational, multi-use case, multi, multi, um, maturity, right? We, we, we mature along our financial, um, prowess, if you will, education. Things change. My, my, my lens on what finance is right now is not the same as my, you know, daughter who's starting her career or son, um, or anyone else in mid-career, right? So there's, there's, there needs to be more than a one size fits all. And I love that that's something that Chime is doing.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_01] And obviously we've talked about this before, I think after the innovation summit, Workday has been very serious again about the frontline worker, enabling more empowerment tools to help them with finance, to help them with their pay, to help them with their scheduling, all of that. So, uh, plays, plays just perfectly.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. I think it, uh, this is really kind of kicks off wave two of the Workday wellness partners, right? I mean, we saw an early wave of some folks and now I think leading up to rising, we're going to see another wave.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Well, it's, uh, it's important. I think benefits is going to get a boost too from, from the market. I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of angst around benefits still. It's very expensive. A lot of employers are trying to figure out how to make it more cost effective. You've certainly got the need to be more competitive and creative. And of course, employees are obviously trying to do smarter things with their pay and benefits as well. So this just makes total, total, total sense.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00] Listen, I'm going to be moderating a couple of sessions at rising on that very topic. So if that's, if you're attending rising and that's something that's really hot topic for you, make sure we connect. And just give me a reach out and, uh, I'd be happy to talk more about that.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Good call out. I'll, I'll be there as well. I'm, I'm, I'm presenting with the next, uh, piece of news here. Yeah. Daily pay has gotten. That's right. Yeah. Daily pay, uh, again, a former Jason Lee, uh, invention, uh, is, is, is getting closer with Workday, right? They were already partners, already integrated, but this, uh, really, um, takes the marriage further. I guess you could say really an embedded experience for the AI. You notice the theme here, right? Embedded finance.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_01] You probably heard me talk a bit about that after I came back from money, 2020, the last few years, embedded everything when it comes to pay and finances is, is, is really becoming, um, the norm. And so I think this just makes sense, just like the time sort of play here. It's all about making it easier for people to engage these solutions. And it plays really well with daily pays, what they call their built-in, um, solution, which is basically an embedded solution that they're working with, you know, uh, tech providers around the world to, or well, around the, uh, North America, I guess, uh, to, to engage with.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_01] So totally makes sense.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_00] So more married than married, right? More married than married.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_01] I would call it a little, maybe not married, but, but a little bit closer together, right? They've, they've really gotten a much more intended experience, I think, with the embedded capability here.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00] Okay. And you would say experience and AI are the two big features that make it like dating plus, right?

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01] I think that, I think that what you can see here is, yeah, well, AI certainly got to play a factor in everything, but I think what you can see here is that Workday is trying to bring together more solutions for the frontline and bringing it into the flow of their platform, into the flow of what you're doing, um, and making it seamless, right? Making it feel like it's part of the platform and not, Hey, this separate thing that I'm using.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00] Right. Right. Yeah.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00] Okay. I think that's it for Workday and we can shift over to SIP, right? Yeah.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01] A lot for Workday. So congrats to Workday. I know they got, I mean, obviously they're, you know, they're big, uh, they're, they're Olympics, if you will, is coming up rising. Everyone will be buzzing there. I'm sure we're going to hear some even more product that's going to come out. It always is. On, um, Paradox, we're going to get it more up and, and don't forget, don't forget, let's go back to Paradox. They bought, um, what was it?

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_01] The, um, I'm drawing a blank on the skills capability that they bought, uh, that they folded in a year ago, uh, or two years ago, I guess it would be now. So with all that talent capability and analytics and skills insights, um, I think it's, it's pretty, uh, it's a pretty exciting time. Higher score. Sorry. Higher score is the, is the firm. And that didn't really get lost. Right. I mean, I think that analytics and data got, got, got embedded there into Workday, but, uh, together with Paradox, it's going to be pretty powerful, pretty powerful stuff.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00] It also means a little more to sort out with skills cloud and a bunch of other, you know, skills related things that are features that are really core to Workday. So awesome.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff on that side of the business. Or the platform.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_00] All right. Take us over to success factors.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Let's talk about success factors. Now they led the, they led the way on this. Right. I think, I think, uh, maybe Workday saw that and we're like, oh, we're not going to be outdone. Yeah. Right. Um, but obviously these things are all under, under, underway. And look, I think this tells you talent management is super important. And the recruiting part of this is even, you know, there, there's been some, some posts this week by some of the analysts, uh, talking about this idea, you know, that, that, that a lot of marketing says that, that ATSs are broken and recruiting's broken. Not really. It just needs to be improved. Right.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_01] And there's opportunities in, in all these towers. But I think this emphasizes, uh, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that in the enterprise hiring is a, is, is, is problematic and it needs to be closer together with the other parts of HR instead of being a separate solution, uh, outside the HCM. So again, just like, uh, just like Workday. Um, I think that SAP is really leveling up their, their capabilities when it comes to, uh, talent acquisition.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01] But what I think is really cool here is, um, smart recruiters and I've seen it, I've, I've had, uh, demos and briefings on it. Really, really, um, amazing solution in terms of its, uh, intelligence and capability. It, but what's cool about it is, is, you know, they're going to keep this, uh, they're going to very much keep it integrated, but flexible such that you can still take it as a standalone. So they're not going to, as we talked about, kill it by sort of folding it in and letting it get lost. Like maybe again, a connects, a, a toleo, uh, something like that.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01] So if you go out and read the press release from this, uh, CEO, Rebecca Carr, um, you know, she, she's quoted as saying, we remain fully open and agnostic. Smart recruiters will continue to integrate across ecosystems, giving you the flexibility and freedom to build the recruiting stack that works best for you. So that just tells you right there, you know, they're going to still be able to play with other, other platforms.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01] Um, and I think they're bringing a ton, like I said, automation, you know, insights, um, you know, a great UX and, and really going to level up SAP's, um, talent capabilities here in terms of, uh, recruiting.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, for sure. And actually that's been an area where people are point solution buyers still, because they believe that the innovation has been in the lead from the point solutions. So probably a great move not to just soak that one up and, and, uh, and have it go into anonymity.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01] So yeah, my understanding is, yeah, Rebecca and the team are coming, coming along with that, um, obviously, and, and certainly we'll be powering that forward. So, uh, yeah, I think this is a really smart thing and, and I think it's, um, yeah, nice addition to success factors for sure.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00] Okay. Where do you want to take us next? All right. I know we had a few more.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_01] Let's stay in HCM. Let's talk about Dayforce, right? We had Dayforce go private this week. Um, and this is something that was kind of, kind of being rumored before this week, obviously. Um, look, this happens a lot. Uh, companies go public to raise money. They go back private to gain, gain more control. And I think that's what's happened here, um, for Dayforce.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01] And I'll just tell you, I think if you follow the stock, like I, like I have as an analyst for many years, especially since it launched, I remember when it, when it, when they went IPO and what was like 17, 18, 19 kind of timeframe before the pandemic. Um, you know, I don't think that Dayforce ever really got credit for its fundamentals and it has really cleaned up its stock fundamentals. So I won't opine on this. I'm not a, I'm not a stock genius, but you know, what I think you're looking at is, is I, I think there was an opportunity for Dayforce to get more agile.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_01] Um, you know, relieve themselves of that Wall Street burden, um, and get credit for all the work that they've done to shed that bureau sort of, um, business, right? They're, they're, they're, they're very much an HCM technology firm. They've had to get away from that bureau, um, you know, infrastructure and set up from the past. Um, and I just don't know that the stock was necessarily getting, getting the right, um, you know, the right treatment.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_01] And so I think they took it private and decided to, yeah, go in on the, um, go in on the agility of all that. Right. And a partner that'll fuel their, fuel their growth. Now I've got a few, I got a, I got, I got maybe a tangent sort of, um, and I'm not saying there's any truth to this. I'm just telling you the facts of what I see and I'll, and I'll give you my point of view if you want, Julie. Um, uh, I want to hear your thoughts on the whole thing, but I want to add a little, a little twist that, that, that I thought, uh, is interesting.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_01] And it kind of reminds me of some other acquisitions we've seen, but wanted to get your take on this first, because I know, you know, you've got customers that use Dayforce and select Dayforce and would just be, be curious what you think.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I absolutely will. So first of all, as you say, a lot of times the rumor mill precedes the event by quite a bit. And in this case, I really feel like it was somewhat closely held, right? Um, I have, uh, had a couple of clients that have been selecting and, and even in fact contracting right up until recent weeks. Uh, and there wasn't a lot of news out in the market to be had on this.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_00] So, um, so that it happens both ways, but I think in this case, it was a little bit of a surprise or a little bit of a closely guarded rumor, right? Until Monday or something earlier this week. Yeah. One of the, um, observations I have, I just see so much potential in this. Um, the focus is on Dayforce as an HCM player. It's really upped its game and become a strong option. It's always had amazing strength in its, um, security and technical foundations.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_00] So it has always competed very well with the bigger guys, um, in this space. Um, but I, I don't see much focus on the payroll and compliance bit other than acknowledgement that having, um, weaved AI into the most complex parts of HR organizations and workforces like scheduling, you know, and like the payroll compliance bit, um, means that it's not just a bunch of fluffy AI, right?

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00] I mean, they have some really, they have some really good foundations. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think, um, we'll hear a lot about it from the broad HCM perspective because certainly that's the interest, but I don't think, um, clients and buyers and HR leaders out there should overlook the fact that if you've already pegged your horse to an HCM engine, like Workday or SuccessFactors or Oracle, you know, that, that Dayforce can still play in its core, you know, in its strengths in the payroll and, uh, and time.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00] It's always had very, very solid foundations in that area. So, you know, obviously the ideal is to have an integrated suite for anybody and everybody out there, but, um, but the payroll and compliance, um, strength, the time and workforce management strength in Dayforce is really something to keep your eyes on. And I don't think it gets enough attention in some of the writings.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01] I would agree. I would, I, you know why I kind of think that's just taken for granted and, and, and others are focusing on other things, but that is actually absolutely at that. When I say bureau, that's the, that's the heritage of Serenian, right? It was formerly that now bureau means like very, you know, it's not transformational, right? It's just sort of, you know, handing out work to, to another, to an outsource provider. They've shed all that. They're very much a managed service provider under the hood. And I would say probably one of the more mature and capable managed service providers of all the HCMs, right?

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_01] When you think about some of them don't even, you know, don't, don't still do that, which I understand. It doesn't make sense for some of them. But, but what I'm going to go back to is when you talk about the fundamentals, one of the things that I would tell you that, that I I've always been, or have been impressed with is that day force. You're right. Super strong on that, on that core side. I think they, they're, they're very, a bunch of leader when it comes to that payroll time benefits and, and, and the talent and the other things are getting much more mature. Day force intelligence is getting more mature.

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_01] And I think even David Offset mentioned, it's going to help them. This move is going to help them be able to be move faster with AI. But, but here's the thing I think that is important to point out about their fundamentals. They really did a lot of work over the last few years of, of really preparing the system foundationally from a data perspective to be able to be in this position to then amplify all of those modules together. Use AI, bring, you know, bring maturity to day force intelligence.

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_01] And I think they're, they're, they're just in a really great spot when it comes to all that they have here from, to your point, from a compliance and, and a software perspective.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And along with that, just even the scale that comes from ingesting things like the government of Canada, right? And, and like really up market, you know, moving aggressively and, and having successes and wins up market and the large complex client markets. Oh yeah. Definitely seen that evolve tremendously in the last couple of years. I didn't want to, you know, we put a pin in the idea of you, are you growing by consuming and eating stuff or are you growing by bolt-ons?

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00] And I think that's one of the bigger areas of speculation in this combination between Tom, uh, the, uh, the Toma group and, uh, and day force is because they're, they're used to growing, uh, you know, exponentially software firms, but they also have a little bit of a history of doing some of that by bringing in bolt-ons and other, other sorts of things. And day force, you know, is still kind of a single platform for the most part. Yeah. They bought a few things.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00] They've been rather, yeah, they've bought a few things, but they're, they're still early on in the purity, you know, once upon a time work day was that pure too. And the earliest stages. And so how is this going to evolve and what's going to be their, their, uh, their approach and their strategy and kind of their playbook as they begin to grow faster than they would on their own. It's going to be cool to watch.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01] Agreed. Agreed. We'll see. We'll see. But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a fan. I've always been a fan. I, I, um, I, I worked with Ceridian back in the day as a, as a solution architect on, on massive HRO deals. And we, we, they were our go-to for Canada, uh, and, and North America in a lot of cases when we were doing compliance. So, um, yeah, very, very cool. So congrats to them. Now I want to go out and just opine here. Let's just fill up. Uh-oh. Let's, um, let's go, let's go crystal ball, connect some dots. And let me, let me, let me, uh, throw something out there.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01] Now, again, I am not in any way saying this is, I'm not predicting this. I'm not in any way saying I have any necessarily credible information. I'm just connecting the dots as an analyst on what I've seen and what I know. What I would tell you is interesting here is, Julie, and I think you could liken this to, uh, well, let me explain it first. So I don't know if you recall, uh, or not, but prior to, I'd say about what, two years ago, uh, Dave Force had a, um, president, right? Lee Turner. She came from SAP.

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_01] She was, um, uh, working there as the head, uh, really, really running, running the show, so to speak. I think David had kind of maybe stepped back a little bit, but she left, uh, and she went to Coupa. Now, Coupa, for many of the, uh, folks out there you may or may not know, is a spend management and asset management solution. What's interesting here is, um, and they, they cover things like procurement, uh, technology, invoicing, expenses, supply chain, contracts, that sort of thing. So what's interesting here is Toma Brava, um, owns Coupa.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01] Could there be a, a get together? I don't know. Kind of reminds me of, and it never happened, but well, partly it did, right? We, we know that Helmut Freidman got the ultimate and Kronos together. Uh, I teased, I think I teased Bjorn Reynolds over at Safeguard for years that AKKR was going to push I-Solved and Safeguard together. That, that didn't happen, uh, or hasn't happened yet. Um, but there's a lot of this co-ownership like that. And you kind of have to wonder, will worlds come together? What could that, what could that look like?

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01] Could we see Dayforce maybe drip into finance and become an ERP? I don't know. It's very speculative. I'm in no way saying it's a prediction. I just think that there is, that these are facts. Uh, and you know, when you get portfolios together and you get relationships that were, that were there, you never know, right? Things can happen and things could come together.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_00] And Hey, look, even if it's, it's a cool speculation, Pete, I mean, it makes me think right, right away about the olden days with ultimate and, uh, NetSuite, right? Yeah. Where they were really close buddies. And I think people didn't realize that they stayed very close and had a long time relationship as a mid-market play or combination of, of folks long after, um, NetSuite was acquired. So, um, so I think, I think things like that happen either organically or behind the scenes.

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_01] And when you got the same parents, it's sort of, sometimes you don't have a choice, right? If the parents say we're, this is what we're doing kids. Uh, you know,

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_00] You're stuck in the room of brotherly love until you work some things out and make it happen.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_01] Everybody in the minivan.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00] That's right.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_01] And don't make me turn this thing around, you know?

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_00] That's okay.

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_01] Everybody's dad, right? Everybody's dad. There you go. All right. Onward. Let's go to the next one. We got a couple more here. Um, uh, next up deal at it again, man. They are, uh, always keeping the foot on the pedal on the innovation. Look, I would tell you to go and check out the blog on this because there's a video. There's a lot of information, but deal has launched what they call the deal AI workforce. Basically a set of agents for, for a long list of HR use cases. Uh, I love the namings of these two, right?

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01] The hiring guru helps you find the best country to hire in based on your role, budget and talent pool. Uh, the PTO fairy. You'll appreciate that one, Julie. I love that. Collects your vacation requests, checks coverages, updates your records. Uh, they've got the border buddy, the schedule sheriff, the IT guy. I love it, right? The goodbye genie, which creates a smooth, uh, as they say, compliant offboarding, uh, plans and it's tailored to each location. And my favorite, the payroll detective, right?

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_01] It spots and fixes payroll issues before they reach your team's paycheck. So really cool, right? I mean, this is probably the deepest AI offering we've seen from one of the, one of the EORs. Now deal is way more than an EOR now. Um, but very interesting, right? And here's the best part. Uh, again, I would encourage you to go read the blog and watch the video on this. They're even enabling you to build custom agents, right? Or bring your own, um, and start with deals and then they can, they can work with you from there. So very cool stuff.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01] Also, by the way, I should add, which I love integrated into your stack. So Slack, Zapier, your ATS, your CRM, uh, you're going to have these agents integrated and able to, um, address use cases in the flow of what you're doing in the flow of your stack. So really cool. I think this is cool. And I love the fun marketing around it too.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. I love that as well. And I'll just remind folks that we should have links to all the things we're referencing in our show notes and descriptions so you can find them easily there. And I, you know, I do still think there's a deal has been on a tear as we both know, we've had numerous, um, things to say about that. Uh, you know, uh, the fact that oftentimes AI, you're looking across a single integrated platform versus this across multiple stacks and things you can work with. I think, you know, they've got a lot of stuff they're putting together behind the scenes now

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_00] and that can't be easy. So, uh, I'm sure there's, there's, uh, there's a progression and, and, uh, every day is a little bit better as they say when you're pregnant.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_01] Having lots of toys. Yeah. Having lots of toys means sometimes you got to clean up, right? I mean, yeah, they gotta, they gotta get all that in one, in one. And they've done a good job, I think, of folding in and normalizing their experience. And obviously that's going to take time to get all that there. Uh, for any of these acquisitions, but, um, yeah, I think this is really cool. I, I love the, I love this, um, you know, this, this sort of, um, you know, you read this and the, you know, again, I'm laughing because these are, these are cute, uh, names, but, but they're solving real problems, right? That people are dealing with every day. And that's, that's what this is about, right?

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01] The, the movement here with AI, it should be making life easier.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00] I'm seeing like a Marvel comic style game board going, you know, the deal is probably going to come out with that HR tech or something. Yeah.

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01] We need, we need to take those and drop them into chat GPT and ask it to animate. Could you animate these? Tell me what this would look like if they were cartoons, you know?

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00] That'd be hilarious. I wonder if we could interview them after we create them.

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Bring them to life. I know. Oh yeah. That, that, yeah, there we go. That'd be fun. Right. Right. All right. Julie, you got something, right? I believe couple. Yeah.

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_00] I do. I wanted to talk a little bit about, uh, I've been doing a lot of writing in my monthly LinkedIn newsletter, HR transformation, HR and payroll transformation about all the stuff that's going on in the workforce management or the time, time and scheduling market. And a lot of it is driven by legacy platforms that are hitting end of life. In fact, several of them, you know, based previously on the UKG, um, workforce central,

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_00] you know, are expiring and have had an expiration date of early 2027 out there that affects, you know, ADP eTime users. It affects, you know, a number of different platforms. It affects UKGs, you know, the, some of the, um, ultimate legacy platforms as well. So there's been a lot happening in the client markets around time. And how the heck do I get myself onto something that's not going to just stop or end on me?

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00] And I will tell you, I, um, there is now a joint statement that ADP and UKG, because they both, you know, share some of these platforms, vantage times, part of that as well, um, that they are going to extend, um, the end of life term for things like enterprise eTime and vantage time and enhanced time solutions all the way to September, 2030 was the announcement.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00] Um, and so that, you know, like folks can breathe easier and yet at the same time, um, there are a number of organizations, large, large organizations that are working toward what was a deadline of, you know, this year, this year, July was the ideal, um, to, uh, to move or sign agreements and all the necessary planning and paperwork to, to upgrade from eTime to workforce manager, for example. Um, and, uh, there is still a clock ticking on that.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_00] Um, and I think that clock has been extended till about December 31st, 2026. So another year of grace to sort some of that out. That makes a lot of sense to me because there's just a lot of users out there. And, you know, if you weren't planning on, you know, making a big change in your time and scheduling systems, which is hairy, hairy business, um, you know, it's a little difficult to swallow on a short timeline.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_01] So, you know, one of the things I would say is as a consultant, I always thought this, like, you know, I've come across this too. It's like, oh, our thing is going out of support or whatever. And I, and I used to say like in the politest way, like that's a you problem. Does that tell you that if, if, if, if a vendor is sunsetting something that is incredibly old that, that folks aren't staying on or, or, or whatever, doesn't that tell you that maybe you're moving a lot slower than where things are, where the ball's moving? Like, you know, yeah. So, you know, I, I don't, I hate when we vilify the vendors for this because what are the vendors jobs?

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_01] Their, their job is to innovate it. If you're not going to them for an innovation cycle that you can't and won't produce internally, you gotta go, you gotta, you gotta change. You gotta evolve. And I think that, that, that this is good. Like when these solutions are coming around, but I do have to be sensitive to the fact that we understand not everyone can move at the same speed and it's going to take time.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_00] So listen, sometimes, sometimes leaders, HR and payroll leaders, they really do need kind of an end of life deadline to be taken seriously from a funding and investment standpoint or a resourcing standpoint. And so, you know, I say that for our listeners, you might not necessarily want to go run and share that broadly organization. If you're trying to get something done and there's an acknowledged end of life, you know, just jokingly, but, but yeah.

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_01] So there's a lot of that out there, you know, it's crazy, it's crazy, but we've got it. Yeah. Hopefully we'll get some change there, but yeah, this is cool. And look, I'll be heading up to ADP in a few weeks to go to the innovation summit for, for analysts. And I, I know I've seen the agenda. A big piece of it is, is workforce management. We're going to get a good update on that. So I'll be able to ask a lot of questions. So when we come back, Julie, we're going to have to have probably a couple of episodes on, on, on update debriefs, right? Because there's just so much going to come. I mean, look, we aren't even out there yet and we're already talking a full episode

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01] of updates and it's, and a lot of this just came about to the last two weeks. Yeah. So I think it's going to be packed. I really do. I really do.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_00] So I think I'm at the end of my news ones. If you don't have another one, I know we both, we got an article, catch our attention that we're dying to talk about for a bit.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_01] We got a couple of them. We got a couple of them. You want to do the first one? The, the MIT study?

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_00] The MIT study. So I, I think this is a, a, one of those, um, I don't know that I would call it clickbait, but it's certainly getting a lot of clicks and a lot of posts for sure. And that is related to an MIT report. Uh, and the headline of it is that, uh, the MIT report says that 95% of generative AI projects, um, in-house projects are failing. Uh, and so that has, uh, you know, it begs the question, you know, first of all, you and

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00] I've had a number of conversations about how sometimes the easiest way to get into AI is to go there with your providers and your partners and folks that are doing it across their entire client base. And, uh, and it begs the question, you know, as some conversation around, is it really that 95% are failing? Um, I think some of the nuances that I read as well, 95% can't point to a quantified, you know, a quantified ROI or quantified base. Well, that, that may not mean it fails, right?

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00] It's certainly the goal and it's early and you have to fail fast and, you know, fast and furiously with a new technology like this. So what are your thoughts about it?

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. So I didn't entirely get to read the entire study. I don't know that you can without paying for it. So I, I just haven't, haven't done that yet, but what I have, I've read multiple articles written about it. Um, so let me maybe give us some clarification. So one of the things that they said was, and I don't know what the criteria was, but they said five, only 5% of integrated artificial intelligent pilots are quote, extracting millions in value. So I don't know if that means they excluded the ones that weren't, but I think what they're saying is, is that fundamentally they're not getting the ROI that they expect. Right.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_01] But when you go into this, you dig into it further. You see that many companies, it says here, quote, many companies are implementing tools like open AI, chat GPT and Microsoft copilot with over 80% having explored the, the technologies and only four or a nearly 40% reporting their deployment. However, uh, they're, they're enhancing productivity at the individual level, but not necessarily at the overall company or function level. And so back to your point, I think what this is saying to me, if I, you know, without reading

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_01] the whole thing here is that you've got a bunch of employees probably running around using the commercially available solutions. Hopefully they're not, hopefully they're recklessly, right?

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_01] Hopefully they're, they're, they're licensed by the business at least. Uh, co-pilot hopefully is, uh, obviously as well. But, but I think what this tells you is, is that you've got to be, you can't just sort of be doing, I hate to say doing AI. I hate that, but like, you can't be running around letting people sort of piecemeal AI. There needs to be a strategy. There needs to be an overarching, uh, use case set that we're working towards, you know, and, and outcomes that we're trying to achieve such that the processes that we're, we're

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01] transforming around them or this around are fundamentally, uh, going to reap that ROI. Because if you're just sort of shooting in the dark and everyone's kind of doing a little bit, you're getting these incremental ROIs, but are you actually getting any, any scalable ROI? And I think that's what this is really saying. So, um, yeah.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00] You know, it also, I can't, I can't listen to this and think about this without thinking about the episode we did with, uh, Thomas Otter from Acadian Ventures, you know, who reminds us so aptly that, you know, yes, the revolution is coming and it ain't here yet because when it's here, you're going to feel it. And it's, everything is going to, there's going to be a paradoxical shift, you know, across.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_01] It's still very early. It's still very early.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00] It's very early. And, um, and I hope it's not too discouraging for folks, but it should also, you know, call out the things that you're saying. You need to have governance. You need to have a strategy around it. You know, you, you need to, uh, figure out exactly how you're going to dip your toe into this. And you need to seriously consider working through some of the things that are easily available to you. Um, and you also need to know where your legal, uh, uh, and procurement stand on it. I know I hear things from both sides of the house.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_00] I've had folks absolutely tell me as I'm going to do some engagements with them, uh, you need to assure us that you're not going to use AI. Right. That are the exact opposite. And so your corporate energy and your corporate culture and your corporate policies around that are really incredibly important.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_01] Yes. Yeah. No, I love that. And look, we just not to, well, I guess to tease an episode, we just recorded an episode, uh, that we're going to put out with it, with it, with apparel leader, uh, apparel executive, apparel executive that is absolutely living this. Um, and what did we hear from her? I think if you took away, what I took away was, is they had a very distinct plan for what they want their AI to be doing in stages and L and building. Right. And it's not like, uh, Hey, let's just go do AI. Uh, it's, it's more of a very purposeful.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_01] We want to solve this, this, and this. Yeah. And then we're going to go to that, this and that, you know what I mean? It's not a sort of throw a net out there and just see what we can get.

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_00] And what users will hear when that goes out, they'll also hear that there were, there was significant buildup, uh, and of foundation and data and pre-work to be in this position of readiness. And so, you know, to go a little bit willy nilly at it and be in a rush and not know your, know thy data, right. Um, has its risks as well. So, you know, resist the urge to feel like I just got to throw something out there because

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_00] we can see there is some evidence that that has some bad repercussions.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01] Oh man. Yeah. I mean, you're just going to cram a bad data into a bad process. It's going to come out bad. You know what I mean? So no, you're right. I think we use the word, you know, when we did our wary leadership focus in the beginning of the year, we, we, I think you use the words fitness, right? A fitness to your data. I think when you listen to that podcast with, with Monica Miller, by the way, uh, is who we had on, uh, I'm really excited for everyone to hear that. I recommend every, I hope every executive listens to it and everyone that's in payroll and HR as well. Um, but I think what we heard was really just this fitness, right?

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_01] They were getting in shape before they tried to go run a race, right? They didn't try to sprint. They said, we got to clean up the house. The foundation has to be very solid. We got to feel very confident about the data and then we can go. And so it was almost like all the, all the blocking and tackling was set up before they tried to go and throw a touchdown. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Very, very over underrated, I think, or overlooked. Yeah. Okay. All right. Julie, I have a fun one. I got a fun one. I got a fun one. All right. So I was, I don't know if you guys saw this. I saw this, uh, I don't know if I saw it on LinkedIn or if I saw it on, on X, but listen,

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_01] how far have you, uh, what's the most you've ever commuted? Uh, Julie, what's it, what's your, what's your commute? Oh goodness. You ever commuted?

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00] I have, I have, and it was, you know, in the Metro Detroit area, it's a hour, right? Is a decent commute. I have in my, you know, my travel warrior days at one point in time, I had clients in the same week regularly. I was going to Bristol, uh, in law in England and Akron in Ohio and, uh, and down in, uh, and down to Florida.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_00] So between those three, I don't think I saw anything but a Delta airline for a very long period of time.

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01] I've had that fate. Yeah. Yeah. That's me now, but, but okay. Okay. Not that bad. So for me personally, I'll just say, I, I personally have, uh, I've always been lucky to kind of live relatively near where I worked. If I worked in a physical building, I have not worked in an office, uh, traditionally in almost 20, well, 20 years, I've been on, I've been, I've been at home. Uh, and much of that 20 years, I was, um, I was traveling like you, West coast, Europe, whatever. But, but the most I've ever commuted was when I worked for Disney.

[00:40:21] [SPEAKER_01] I moved from the Bradenton, Sarasota, Tampa area, Florida to Orlando. But at the time I was kind of going back and forth until we sold our house. We got some things done. So six months I was doing like a hundred miles. Right. And that, that's a lot for one way, but it was, it was manageable. It was doable and it, and it worked out. However.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_00] Hey, our European Asia pack audiences are like, what?

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_01] I know. Right. Yeah. People in New York city are like, what are you talking about? Two miles. Takes me two miles. Two hours to get to work on a train, planes, trains, and automobiles. Right. But Hey, have you ever heard of this? So there's this, there's a lady, they featured her in a video. I'll, I'll try to put it in here. You know what I'm finding, Julie, sometimes, uh, YouTube and others don't like when you put links at a lot of links. So I gotta be careful how many links we put in here. They they'll block them if they think they're malicious. Um, but you can look this up and I'll try to share it if we can, but there's a, there's a video out here on this. There's a lady named Rachel Cowher.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_01] I believe it is. She is an Indian origin assistant manager for air ages finance operation. Uh, and she lives in, I'm going to probably say this wrong, Penyang, India, I believe it is. Yeah. And she, or maybe it's a different, I don't know what, maybe it's Kuala Lumpur. I don't know. She's flying to Kuala Lumpur every day. It's 350 kilometers. Okay. Wow. Now, why is she doing that? Well, that's, what's interesting here. She basically figured out that the cost of her to live by her work was more than 50% of

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_01] her costs to fly from where she lives, 350 kilometers away to the job every day. And because she works for the airline, she actually gets, I'm sure a discount of some sort. I don't know how, how much that was, what percentage, but the point is she saves 50% of her living costs by waking up every day at 4. AM. She gets to the airport by five. She's on a flight at 5.55 and she's in her office by 7.45. Home by 8. PM.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00] No way. You know what? I just, I don't know. I want to call our friend John Lee from Workforce Anywhere, right? And go, is this real? Like, do you handle and look at cases like this?

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, listen, so here, let me, let me break this down for you. Her monthly expenses for food and accommodations dropped from approximately, I'm going to give you the US, right? Not rupee. 474, $474, I think a month to about 316 after switching to daily flights. So even with the flight costs, she is still, um, she's still saving significantly. I just think this is fascinating. This is just fascinating.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_00] 20% or 25% from four to three, you know, four to three.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_01] I thought in the article she said something about her rent being about half. Maybe total expenses aren't half, but yeah, it's a big savings apparently and worth doing this. But I guess I'm asking how far would you commute for a job in this age? In this age?

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_00] Look, first of all, the part where she commutes by waking up at 4 a.m. every day. I mean, like, I know you were in the military and that might be a big shakaroo, but I think for many of us, that right there is the deal breaker. Yeah. Because, yeah, I mean, I, I've had times in my life where I regularly ran for flights and that was at, you know, 6 a.m. and 7 a.m. I, yeah, no, I, that, that for me, no go. No fly.

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_01] I wake up at five.

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I know. Well, I oftentimes do too, but I could plod around in my slippers, right? For the first few hours.

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, man. I'm up and I'm probably up even earlier. I think four, it would be no problem for me. Now, could I, would I do this? I mean, man, they'd have to really be paying me or something.

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_00] I would rate Kate for crying out loud. That's the way I would go, I think.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01] Now, when you watch the video, she says that it's, it's actually creates more time for her and her children, which I think is interesting. I didn't totally get that, but she feels like it's a much better quality of life for her to do this. What I'm curious about is with all this expose of this, like is Air Asia going to step forward and be like, can you, you can just work from remote? I don't know if what she does can be done remote, but man, come on. Let's help Rachel. Is it Rachel? What was her name again? Was it Rachel?

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_00] No, no.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01] Rachel, yes. And by the way, I was wrong. I was, I don't know Malaysia well. I apologize. Penang is in Malaysia and she's flying to Kuala Lumpur. Yeah. So 350 kilometers. Incredible. If you can go find that, I encourage you to check it out and consider what would you do? What would you do for a job? How far would you drive? You know, how far would you fly?

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_00] I feel like I have a better chance of like, what would you do for a, I don't know, what's like some famous donut or something, right? Like some famous junk foodie thingy that you might do for a Haagadass or something, right?

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_01] A Klondike bar. Remember that? What would you do for a Klondike bar? What would you do for a Klondike bar? That used to be the commercial. But I mean, you know, here's the thing. So then I was thinking like, okay, it's not like now my mind's going crazy. I'm like, well, what if she misses a flight? Is she late? And then if she's late, does she say to her employer, well, it's your flight. You should have been on time. I'm the customer. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, how do you say to her, you're late to work, Rachel? And what is she, you know what I mean? Like, well, yeah.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00] But I took your flight.

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_01] You should know that you probably made all of the flight late to wherever they're going. You should do something about that. I mean, I just, there's so many things going through my mind about it. And I'm just like, and I'm dying to know, like, how does she go from, she gets to the airport. She goes to the airport at five, boards at 555. Like, I don't think I could do that in Atlanta.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_00] I know. Even with Clear. But you know what? If she works for the airline, right? Because she works for the airline. Then their offices are probably right there at the airport. So it's not like she has to go anywhere else. Maybe. Yeah.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_01] Maybe she gets a special pass to get on the plane. I don't know.

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_00] I've worked with airlines. You know, like the offices are right there in the whole airport complex. So I don't know. Well, that was a fun one, Pete. You threw me for a loop there for sure.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_01] I think we should do more of these. I think there's a, because, you know, I sit and I think about it when I see these. Like, I started thinking about, well, what would I do if I was a manager and I found that out? I mean, would I try to help this? Like, how could I help her? And that's where I'm like, hey, AirAsia, maybe we need to see about some remote work here.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_00] Or like every other week or a few days anyways.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_01] A four day work week, anything. Let's give Rachel a chance to spend more time with the family. I just, I don't know. But hey, listen, what a great advertisement for AirAsia, though, when it comes to their airline. I mean, if she is on time every day, that's a great, that's a great story.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_00] That's a dedicated worker who really wants to be at work too, right?

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_01] It must be. Yeah. No, but hey, look, she likes her job. And if you're, you know, listen, I actually think this is positive because would you go through this if you hated your job?

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_00] No.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, I don't think so, right?

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_00] Not if you could avoid it.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_01] Who knows? Maybe it's a great place to work for her. It's a great job. I'm sure she has. I mean, she's in finance. It's probably a good career. And look, if it works, a lot of people do crazy things for their work and commute even. I've heard even further commutes before. So in a car, right? So that you can only imagine.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_00] Did she happen to say that this was only since like back to work? Like, I wonder if this was a back to work policy or back to the office policy.

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_01] No, I don't think she did. I think it was a personal choice because she felt living near the office was going to cost her more because of the city, I guess. So cost of living maybe. But that kind of happens here, right? Let's say you don't live in New York City, but you live in the suburbs, you're commuting, right? Some people come from Connecticut and other places a long way because the job is in New York City. And that's not uncommon in Philly, other places. I mean, here in Atlanta, my neighbor drove down.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, we live a good 35 miles from the heart of the city or so.

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_00] Which in Atlanta can be an hour and a half or more.

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, maybe 20 to 30. And oh, it's easily an hour. And he drove downtown to CNN Center every day for 17 years.

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_01] That's a long... I mean, that's a two hour... If on a good day, that's a two hour both way experience, right? I mean, man, that's a lot.

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, it sure is. Hey, who says we don't talk about every possible angle of being in the workforce, right?

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_01] We do. We do. We always do.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_00] This was a fun one.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_01] Yes, this was a good one. So we'll have more like this. And yeah, I think... Look, expect us to come back from the road here. Mine starts in a week. I think Julie's is going to be in a week after that. So yeah, we'll be hitting a bunch of conferences and come back and compare notes, share what we've learned. Yeah. And just more content, more great guests on the way. I'm so excited for some of the episodes we have. We can't even... It's almost like we can't push them out fast enough, in my opinion.

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_00] For sure. For sure. Yeah. And way more to come in the hopper. So yes. Yep. Keep up the pace.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_01] Yep. I love it. All right. Well, thank you for listening. And like I said, subscribe, like, share, whatever you can do. Rate. Five's better than one. Remember that? Yeah. Five stars better than one. And we appreciate you. And we'll be back with more content and education soon.