EP119 | The Silent AI Revolution Reshaping HR Right Now

[00:00:14] Hey everybody, it's Tim Sackett, HR Famous. I came back, Madeline, I came back for like, we're calling it season two, even though we have like 120 episodes. It's like that first season was a really long season. It was epic. And then I told everybody like in the first episode that I was no longer going to have you or Katie or Jessica or anybody in. And then immediately in episode three of season two, you're in, you're back. Madeline Lerano, how are you?

[00:00:43] I'm good. I know you, you completely eliminated us. I think we were not. I think it was, it was good to do the solo. I like the guest approach though. I like how you bring on guests. Here's the thing. And like, I'm going to be very cautious about this because you know how it is, like I'll get a million emails like, oh, can you bring in our head of product management or CEO to talk about some stupid tech I don't, I would care less about. I'm only bringing on people I like. I made that decision.

[00:01:13] Like if I don't, even if I like, I'm literally like, well, you don't like me. I'm like, well, I don't, I mean, I'm talking like I would go out to dinner and choose to go to dinner and have, you know, drinks and have like whatever. Like I want, I'm only one to choose people. Like I really want to have a conversation with. I'm actually bringing on, I had some dental, like some gum surgery. You know this cause we text constantly.

[00:01:33] But like, um, like a couple of weeks ago in the culture of this office was amazing. I'm bringing the dental surgeon on to talk about like culture. Cause it's just one of those things that I'm like, I'm just going to bring on people. I really want to talk to you. So we're going to talk about, um, someogenic AI stuff today, but I'm also trying to figure out, I want to start every pod with a question that I can ask. And I want it to be the same question. I haven't figured out the question yet.

[00:01:56] Um, so I'm going to ask you, do you have any questions you can think of that would be amazing to start with? And then I do have one I want to start with today for you, but like, I'm trying to figure out what that should be. Well, yeah, I love the idea of starting with a question. Kyle just started doing this with me, like in our like one-on-ones and we were just together in Miami and he wanted to start, we did like these big walks every morning and every night.

[00:02:20] And he wanted to start off with a question. So he would, so I like this, his question, which was what's your absolutely no for the year and what's your absolutely yes for the year? Like, what are you getting rid of? And then what are you going to double down on or start saying yes to? I have a hard time. Like, I don't say no to anything. Um, or I have a hard, I mean, I do say no to things, but like, I have a hard time like saying it's absolutely a no because then like two days later I'd be like, okay, maybe.

[00:02:47] Yeah. You're good. You're good. And Kyle's good. So my no, I'll tell you now is saying when I know I can't do something, say no then. And I'm not good at that. You know this, um, you know, I'm not good at that. And you and Kyle are very good. Like you like can identify if you don't want to do something, you're just going to say no immediately versus what I do, which is say yes, try to make it work. It obviously can't work. And then I'm backing out at the last minute and that's horrible.

[00:03:13] So like, I don't, like, I have a hard time saying no. So like what I've started to say, I'll say yes. And then I say a number that it's going to cost. And automatically then that's kind of the no. Because people go, oh, well, we were just hoping you would just do it for free. And I'm like, yeah, sorry. Then you don't actually have to say no. They're saying no. Yeah.

[00:03:32] They're saying no to me. Yeah, exactly. The question I came up with for you was if you were given a hundred thousand, million dollars, whatever, to invest in one company today in the HR tech space, what company would it be? You're given the opportunity to get to buy founder stock. I think I have two answers. So I'm going to do one that's been established. Yeah, yeah. That's been around for a while. And you know, you and I both love this company. We've loved them since the second. They've been around as Paradox.

[00:04:03] I knew you were going to say that. I just love Paradox. Everything they do is just gold. So to me, that's like the obvious one. The other one was just announced. I think you've had a preview. I've had a preview on Match 2. I think I'm getting that name right. So it's Doug Burnt's latest venture. Elaine Orler is part of it. She's had a product. And then you've got a board that's Chris Foreman, Kelly Cartwright, Josh Burson. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:04:30] And anything that Doug, you definitely check them out if you don't know them already because they're, it's very cool. It's taking on some matching. It's building community. It's doing a lot of candidates. And it's also, it's like, if you think about what's the biggest pain point in the TA space right now, it's AI applying to jobs for candidates. You have too many candidates applying to jobs that they don't match. And even by the way, before AI, this was still a problem, right?

[00:04:55] You would constantly, as a TA professional leader, have people applying to jobs going, why aren't you applying to this job? There's nothing in your background that fits this job. There was nothing you could do about it. And so Match 2 has literally gone and said, what if we stopped that and said, when you come to apply to our company, you upload your credentials, your application, your resume, anything you have, right?

[00:05:19] And then we'll tell you which jobs you're actually fit for. And that's, that's the only ones you can apply to. You don't even see the other jobs opening. And I'm thinking, wow, like how, why did it take us so long to think about that?

[00:05:30] Part of it is, I think as TA leaders and HR professionals in general, we tend to have this really like, and I'm to blame on this as well. It's like, I want the biggest aperture top of funnels I can, you know, and all of a sudden now we're going, no, no, no, no. We're going to turn that and just, you know, close that and only allow so many people in. And so it's literally just taking like the opposite approach, which I think is brilliant.

[00:05:54] I think it's brilliant too. And it solves a lot of other challenges too. Like everyone's focused on their career side and like, so it's like, it changes that too. I mean, you're just, you're let, you're kind of doing the work for candidates and you don't need them scrolling all over a career site.

[00:06:09] Your choices also speak to, you and I both have had this conversation a lot. We, we tend to invest in people. So Aaron at Paradox and then obviously Doug at Match 2 are two people that we would buy stock in individually. Like, it's like, they're going to make really cool stuff and they're going to, you know, and it's going to work and it's going to solve problems. And so Doug, when you hear this, you asshole, I actually asked if I could, let me, please let me invest money. And he said, no.

[00:06:38] No, we were both together in Park City and we were, you're like, I'm going to get in. And I'm like, oh, this is amazing. And then Kelly was like, I'm already in. Yeah. They're like, it's closed. Sorry. And I'm like, oh, come on. And he's like, yeah. He's like, maybe next time. Like, I'm like, oh, great. I can get in the A round. Thanks. You know. He tells you from Cabo. Yeah. Great start. Love, love both of those. And again, I think it just speaks to kind of like all the stuff that's going on.

[00:07:06] Now, again, if we ask this question next year, we might like come up with five other answers because of all this AI, Genic AI stuff. Some really big announcements, obviously recently, the big one this week was Workday. So Workday came out, made a big splash around this kind of agent of record. So a Genic AI, agent of record, digital employee. Explain to the crowd kind of what this is. What's an agent of record or a system of record, right, for Genic AI or agents?

[00:07:36] Yeah. And it's interesting because Workday is a system of record, right? This is what we know Workday to be. And when you think about the biggest challenges with Workday, and you know this better than I do working with a lot of companies using Workday, is the experience, right? User experience. People complain about it all the time. And like a lot of ATS users anyway feel like there's not deep functionality. They don't know how to use it. And it requires like a lot of manual time to be able to figure this out.

[00:08:05] If you think about how Workday is shifting now and saying we're now a system of agents, they announced four agents last year. They're now announcing four new agents. And that's everything from recruiting to planning to optimizing to payroll agents. Yeah. And then they also, they kind of hinted towards, I mean, I think there's a list of like either 12 or 16 other ones in development, right? So this is just going to continue to roll, right?

[00:08:29] For everything. And then I think the other big piece of what a system of agent is, it's not just that they're going to keep rolling out new agents for every little thing you need to do. It's that they're also going to take third-party agents that could be from other vendors or it could be from companies that have built their own agents because that's happening. And they're going to orchestrate all of them together. So they're going to- And opening up their developer portal so that you could actually build your own Workday agents as well, right? So there's like four types of different agents that you can actually do.

[00:08:57] Yeah. So it's kind of being this orchestration for all these different agents, including their agents. And that's, you know, if we think of, I know you and I both believe this is the future of HR tech and tech, then they're pivoting in a very bold way to say, we're not a system of record anymore. We're a system of agents. And that kind of addresses the experience challenges that a lot of companies are facing and the depth and functionality that they're facing too.

[00:09:24] Yeah. And I think the other kind of like inside baseball stuff that you showed was, this isn't just HR. This is across all functions, right? This is going to be in supply chain. This is going to be in, you know, tech and sales. You're going to see agents going across. Now, and again, smart for Workday to get early out on this kind of agent of record, because if you think, if you went out and hired, like, let's say you hired a new IT person or a new salesperson, you have to give them permissions on, hey, what can they see?

[00:09:53] What can they not see within all of the data systems and everything that you have? And that we've done that since the beginning of any kind of system we've used, you know, across corporations for security reasons, for, you know, safety, privacy, blah, blah, blah. And they're saying, well, wait a minute. These agents are going to have same access. You can't just go, oh, for sure, agent, you have access to everything because you're AI and smart and can figure it out. Well, no, you don't want that. You want an agent specifically do something and have very specific permissions.

[00:10:23] And so it is interesting because I don't think, again, six months ago, I never even would have thought that we need this kind of system of record for agents. Right. For agents. And, you know, if you look at even how HR is changing like this, this is an example of from Moderna. So they're in Boston. Obviously, everyone knows who Moderna is. But their CHRO, they made a big announcement that their CHRO is not just responsible for people anymore. They're responsible for all of digital technology.

[00:10:51] So it's really thinking about what is the work that needs to get done at our workforce and who's going to do that work. And it might not just be people. It might be AI. It might be data. It might be other types of technology. And it really takes it away. Like this was kind of a point that someone brought up with the Workday announcement is, you know, this is not just an IT is not just responsible for AI and agents anymore. It's HR is not responsible for this.

[00:11:19] I don't know about you, but I don't know very many people that are hopeful about the world of work. And I'd like to change that. My name is Marcus Mossberger. And I started the Hope at Work podcast where you'll find two things. Number one, really interesting guests. And number two, innovative ideas about the future of work. Check it out.

[00:12:20] There's another big tech piece to this that hasn't been talked about a lot. Obviously, Workday, they kind of worked around it in a different way because they've created what they basically call kind of this agent gateway. Right. And in previous technical terms, we might think of that as this API. Right. The API was, you know, you had systems like Workday that were fairly closed API. You had other systems like kind of SAP success factors, which were really open. Right.

[00:12:49] So they had these big partner networks and Workday has this really small partner network. And so we always have these kind of conversations back and forth around, do they have an open API? Do they have a closed API? And blah, blah, blah. How kind of API friendly they are. And really this kind of agent gateway gets rid of API altogether. And because now the agent will be coming in. And so, again, like Workday said, okay, hey, we're going to have this kind of agent gateway that you and I kind of behind the scenes talked about. Like, this is just another revenue source. Right.

[00:13:18] Because if you're a third party vendor wanting to work with Workday clients and the Workday client wants you and you have this agent that has to tap their information, they're going to say, okay, you have to come in through the gateway. And it's probably going to cost you some money to do that. Which, again, is smart. Like, I mean, it is what it is. Again, you want to be able to. Workday has to be able to protect their clients of saying, hey, we need to know every single agent that's coming in and what they're tapping for you. Right.

[00:13:45] From that standpoint, you should want that from a cybersecurity perspective and everything else. And they've been protective of partners. I mean, you mentioned, like, their partner system. Like, ecosystem is much smaller than a lot of other large providers. And they've been very cautious about who they partner with. And they said that for the agent, you know, partnerships that they're going to have, they're going to have to go through the same verification process that their marketplace partners would go through anyway. But it will be interesting. I mean, I think does this, like two things.

[00:14:12] Does this open the door to a lot of vendors that have not been able to become workday partners that are really coming out very strong on the agent front to be able to say, no, we could. This is our in to be a workday partner. Everyone wants to be a workday partner. And then the other piece of it, does it do they end up expanding it so much that, you know, they're facing challenges with these third party agents that either are problematic. You know, there's issues with data and security.

[00:14:41] There's issues with satisfaction. You know, it's become problematic. I think it's a smart design as well as that they're going to see what agents are being built and being used the most. So they're going to obviously in their own like developer network within workday, you're going to see companies out there going, hey, we're building agents for this. And they're going to go, oh, that's super cool. We're going to steal that idea. We're going to build it for everybody, you know, so that people can use it. And we all know these agents are going to it's not like they're going to say, oh, you're using workday agents are free.

[00:15:09] Like, no, every time you use an agent, there's going to be like, you know, hey, here's what it costs to have an agent. It turns out like AI actually running AI is expensive. Like it's very energy dependent and like there's just a lot of kind of development and things that are going on. So we shouldn't think like that AI is just free. It's going to cost money. And that's obviously these companies wouldn't be building this stuff. It was just like, oh, yeah, we're just going to give this stuff away. I thought it was interesting. I don't know if you saw this, but like, so is it Dave Summers? Is there head of product, right?

[00:15:39] Really great guy. Understands the stuff inside now. And he kind of shared one slide about one agent, which was the recruiting agent. And he said they had 71 current clients, 1600 recruiters currently using this. That's a fraction of the actual like total ability of that. Right. Like there's still super early stages. And that was the only data they shared. So like to me, that was like the best data that, you know, so like they weren't sharing the other ones.

[00:16:07] And so to have 71 clients out of tens of thousands of clients that they have, 1600 recruiters out of hundreds of thousands of recruiters that they have using the system. It's still early days. So like as we're getting all excited and they're developing this, Workday is really just kind of still building the foundation of all this, making sure that this stuff is actually works. It's the one strength of all these big HCMs, Matt.

[00:16:31] Like when you talk about Oracle, SAP, Workday, I mean, people love to like ditch on them and talk bad about them because it's like, oh, they don't have the coolest, latest stuff. Well, yeah, because they build really, they build tanks. They build stuff that's not going to break. It's going to work every day and it might not be the coolest thing on the market, but it's going to work.

[00:16:52] And I think that's, you see this within this Workday build of saying, hey, we need to really truly understand the foundation of this eugenic AI with this kind of, you know, AI, you know, system of record. Yeah, and they're also going to have a lot of questions. So they need like a customer support team as they're kind of rolling this out to be able to field these questions. And the big providers are the ones that have that. It's very interesting. I had a call, I told you, with Andrew Godonski recently. And he was talking about the agents and the announcements and the Workday announcement.

[00:17:22] And he's, you know, run workforce planning at the Department of Homeland Security. So that's always where his head's at. But it was a really good point. It's like, like companies are going to have to think about that first before they even think about the agent question, because we can announce a recruiting agent or payroll agent. But we have to think about what is the work that needs to get done and who is already staffed or resourced to do that work.

[00:17:48] And, you know, that's going to, that impacts pricing, that impacts everything else. So the workforce planning or workforce modeling stuff has to happen even before companies start to roll this stuff out. Oh, to me, it's still the biggest question as the HR people really aren't talking about. We want to talk about AI. We want to learn about AI, which all should be done. We're not really talking about what's the future of human resources or the future of sales or the future of finance look like as AI takes away all this tasky work.

[00:18:18] If you had 75% of your work go away, it's a question I keep asking of what could you or should you be doing now? I mean, if you don't answer that now or start to prepare to answer that, you're just, your CFO is going to come ask for more heads, more heads, more heads as you layer in, you know, more, more of this AI, more of the work goes away.

[00:18:37] I think, I mean, again, I don't, I don't think that's like, I'm not scared of that because I think like the CHROs that are out there, I think there's, like you said, the Moderna, like CHRO, I think that's exactly where you would want to be. Because you're like, hey, we know this future of work is going to look differently. And we should be a part of this and be on the front side of this because we can do some really cool stuff. If given the chance to not do this tasky stuff that we've been literally, we've been telling ourselves is what we do for a job. And it should be, you know, kind of better than that.

[00:19:06] It should be better than that. And if they can figure that out, it kind of, people are, we're not scared of that. A lot of people are scared of that. They're afraid that there's going to, their jobs are going to be replaced or, you know, this whole talk about transformation, whether it's especially TA transformation. Like everyone's talking about TA transformation. And for a lot of companies, it's like, we want to eliminate recruiters or we want to, you know, reduce the number of recruiters that we're using and they're calling it transformation. But it's a bigger conference. It's a much bigger conversation. And it's a big part of that. Yeah.

[00:19:34] Like I still, like when I take a look at like what smart recruiters is doing with, with their agent and you say, okay, if, if, if, if they pull it off, which I, you know, I think they will. Right. And they can actually do that. It takes away 80% of the task of a recruiter. So then you go, okay, well then what does a recruiter really do? And like, you're like, well, you should be actually having real conversations with real people with real talent, finding out who the actual talent is.

[00:20:01] And then again, the core job of a recruiter back to the beginning of when a recruiter was a recruiter is about getting somebody actually excited about your company, your job, your hiring manager, your culture. And we just don't do that anymore. I know. We think like we, like our brand does that. Like when's the last time, like you actually were on a phone with a recruiter?

[00:20:21] And I don't say that to you, but I'm saying this like out to the world where the recruiter got you so excited about a job, a company, a hiring manager that you were like, holy crap, I have to come work for you. Like, I mean, it doesn't happen anymore. Like it's insane to me. And again, so I think like the future of recruiting goes back to the seventies of having these like really deep conversations and not just one conversation. And then you interview. Sometimes this is like a conversation that takes place over a year before someone goes, you know what?

[00:20:49] Like you guys really want me and I want you and let's make this thing happen. You know? Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. So Oracle made an announcement. Talk to me about that. Oracle made a similar announcement around agents. I mean, we didn't have a briefing with them. So that's TV day to see. Yeah, come on, Oracle, get your shit together. But I think that this is just going to be what we start to hear from everyone.

[00:21:12] I mean, we know a few that are in the works with launching press releases and making similar announcements, not to be a system of agents, but to announce an agent for whatever they're doing. And I mean, this is going to be our year. And I almost think it's going to be like mobile was 20 years ago where it's like, you know, we'd ask with every ATS briefing. Oh, we're mobile first, mobile optimized. Mobile friendly, mobile optimized. And then it's in the world, it's on the roadmap.

[00:21:40] And, you know, that's, you know, everyone's going to have an agent. The thing that I think is confusing, I don't know how much this, you know, impacts buyers. But like you did a slide when we were at some event and you have like the almost the evolution or the difference between agents, co-pilots and assistants. And they're important differentiators, right? Like some, like a co-pilot.

[00:22:04] To me, a co-pilot is helping with some of the work and is taking the work on in an intelligent way. So they're like, but the co-pilot can do that too. So there's a lot of confusion. Can you like explain that slide? Have you ever been to a webinar where the topic was great, but there wasn't enough time to ask questions or have a dialogue to learn more? Well, welcome to HR and Payroll 2.0, the podcast where those post-webinar questions become episodes.

[00:22:29] We feature HR practitioners, leaders, and founders of HR, payroll, and workplace innovation and transformation sharing their insights and lessons learned from the trenches. We dig in to share the knowledge and tips that can help modern HR and payroll leaders navigate the challenges and opportunities ahead. So join us.

[00:23:20] Hey, it's Bob Pulver, host Q Podcast. Human-centric AI, AI-driven transformation, hiring for skills and potential, dynamic workforce ecosystems, responsible innovation. These are some of the themes my expert guests and I chat about, and we certainly geek out on the details. Nothing too technical. I hope you check it out.

[00:24:21] Yeah, like an agent actually. So you hear like part of this is like HR tech and technology marketing in general loves to like just take the hottest word on the market and use it. And then they can truly destroy what the actual definition is. So co-pilot was the first one. Microsoft kind of came up with it and then everybody was like, oh. And then everyone started calling agents co-pilots when they're like, well, no, they actually do really two separate things.

[00:24:46] A co-pilot is someone that, or someone is AI that kind of like maybe ingested, it learned, it got taught something specific so that when you're working and all of a sudden you go, oh, gosh, what was that policy? You could ask this co-pilot and would say, oh, here's exactly what you're looking for. This is the information, blah, blah, blah. Or you could ask a co-pilot to like, oh, could you make this change for me in the system? But before it would change anything, or could you send out this communication to Madeline? And it would say, okay, hey, here's the communication I put together.

[00:25:16] Do you like it? Do you not like it? Do you want me to change it? And you had to do all the approval stuff before it went out. An agent doesn't ask for you anything. An agent says, hey, we need to go out and let's say get a job approval on a requisition. As a recruiter, you would never see anything. A hiring manager would say, hey, I need to hire this rec. An agent would go through. It would go to somebody in finance or to the budget office of that department, whatever. They would click, yep, this is good for this person to go, blah, blah, blah.

[00:25:45] And a recruiter would have no idea any of that is happening. And it would just be done. And it would be done in a fraction of a second. And the hiring manager would go, okay. And if you layer in then like smart recruiter, their agent, not only would the approval come, but now this agent would go to the hiring manager and say, let's do an intake call. Let's talk about what you need. And they might start off with like, hey, you hired Madeline last time. Do you want another Madeline? Like, oh yeah, but could you have more front-end experience and blah, blah, blah.

[00:26:14] And it would just go through that whole thing and then it would start to source. And the recruiter would have no idea this is going on. So the difference between copilot and agent is copilot is kind of this partner with a recruiter. You are asking it. It's telling you. It's asking for approval. You're giving it. No idea. I mean, you have an idea because you told it to go, you know, to do this thing, right?

[00:26:41] But it's not asking for your permission to move forward on any piece of what it's being done. It was trained and taught to do one certain thing or a process of things, right? And you gave it permission to go do those things and actually make the decisions, you know? Yeah, it's taking you on a job. It's doing the job and completing it. The copilot is answering a question or doing some tasks. And I think where, like, so it's a much bigger change management process to think about the agent piece.

[00:27:11] The copilot, I think where it gets tricky too is because it's that dialogue back and forth that you talk about. The copilot is really only right now what we're seeing in HR tech, especially TA tech, is that they're good at like four things. So they can't do everything. And, you know, there gets to a point of frustration when using a copilot where you expect it to do more. It's good at those four things. You want it to do 10 things, but it can't. That's just not the way they're designed.

[00:27:38] And then I think the other confusing piece that we're going to see is we have agents that are being trained to act like copilots. And so some of that, you go, well, why would you do that? And LinkedIn is a great example. So they have this hiring assistant, right, which is like it acts like a copilot. Hey, tell me what to do and I'll go do it for you. But then I'm going to come back to you for approval.

[00:28:01] And so it might go and source candidates or it might post a job or it might do, you know, screen, you know, like, you know, a bunch of candidates for certain questions. But it's going to keep coming back to you to say, hey, I did this for you kind of thing. And some of that is, to me, in my opinion, LinkedIn didn't say this, but like it is getting people used to using this AI. And so this is kind of a softer way to get them in there and say, oh, my gosh, this is so cool. I got so much more done. And then once they become comfortable, it's like, yeah, just go do this.

[00:28:30] I don't you don't need to keep coming back to me and asking for approval. And so like there's that that weird kind of area in the middle that I think even Microsoft is struggling with their copilets. Like there's some things that they want to go just go do it. And you're like, well, wait a minute. Go back and ask the person if it's OK. They want to be involved. I like the I like the LinkedIn approach. I think it's I think you're 100 percent right. It's a behavior thing. It's like they want people to feel comfortable with it. They want to trust it.

[00:28:56] They want to feel like they're involved, especially I mean, recruiters know how to. Oftentimes they don't know how to use the technology that they're they're using for TA. They know how to use LinkedIn. Yeah. And that's where they're comfortable. So to take that away and say we're going to do all this for you without involving them still is there. There's going to be a transition there. And we're going to see a lot of weird behaviors because of SaaS software and how SaaS software is sold to companies by seats. Right.

[00:29:26] And if you have agents coming in just doing stuff and you're a company that was like, oh, we had 100 seats of whatever. And all of a sudden, like the company goes, oh, an agent can do all of that now. You know, wait a minute. We're buying 100 seats. And it's like there can't you can't just go. I mean, there's a revenue shift that has to happen.

[00:29:46] That's going to be really weird for a lot of companies to try to figure out how do we shift people off seats to agents where ultimately, like any company, we still make the same amount of money. Right. Or more, ideally. Right. Or even if we make the same amount of money, we better make better margin. Like there's always going to be that kind of issue at play as we start to make this kind of huge transition like digitally. Yeah.

[00:30:11] And it's starting for some like if you look at providers that I think were very forward thinking, like our friends at HireEasy, like they stopped selling seats. So last year they were like, we're not doing it anymore. We're going to shift that behavior early. I mean, they're perfectly set up to kind of move in the agent pathway too. Well, no, I think it's what, yeah, like any like startup I talk to is like I see people constantly pricing by piece or by seat or by whatever.

[00:30:39] And I'm always like, no, you want people to use your stuff as much as possible. You want them to be addicted to it. Do not price it where they have to go, oh, I better not do it this time because I don't, I only have this many left. No, like you don't want that at all. No, you don't want it at all. Cool. Anything else going on out there? No, I mean, I think like it's, I just think we're going to see more and more of these announcements as, you know, we see the year unfold.

[00:31:06] And then I think this Workday announcement is very positive for all the other HR tech providers that either couldn't partner with Workday or are thinking down this path. It just validates where they're going to. So I think it's a win-win for everyone. I'm excited for it. Mads, we're going to have to come back and talk kind of recruiting TA specific because I have this feeling like you and I both start seeing a lot of what we would say is either matching tech or sourcing tech.

[00:31:32] And then you have the ATSs and as I start to take a look at all the AI being built by kind of the matching tech and sourcing tech and interview tech, even there's really encroaching into, do I need an ATS? Like if this does all these things and I have an HCM, that's my system of record and I can just jam things.

[00:31:50] Like I just like, there's a weird thing shift happening that I'm starting to see and feel that I'm like either the ATS is better start acquiring or building, or there's going to be people that are just starting to make a decision to say, we don't need a full-blown ATS. Right. Or we'll just use like our HCM providers ATS. We won't ever use the best of breed and we'll just buy the other stuff. But I think too, with that, like it makes me think too about like even like Workday calling it as the recruiting agent.

[00:32:18] It's like what is, we're going to be very specific with these agents about what the work is that they are doing because it's not doing all recruiting. And then if they're partnering and opening up to these third-party agents, what are we calling these agents as they relate to the recruiting agent that Workday already has? Yeah, definitely. All right. Tell the audience, do you guys have an opportunity to have anything coming out? From a report standpoint that they should go download? A bunch of things coming out. So we have an ATS report.

[00:32:47] I love a good ATS report. So an ATS report, I should put in that new kind of agent spin on it. We've got programmatic report. Kyle's working on a ton of things too. And then I'll be at HR Tech Europe in Amsterdam. You and Kyle will be at Transform in March. We'll all be at IM Phenom. Yeah. Yeah. Looking forward. For my first time at the Phenom event. And again, I'm sure they're going to have some big kind of AI announcements as well.

[00:33:15] I mean, I know they did last year, but I think it just is moving so fast. We'll see a bunch of more stuff. And again, that's in a whole nother space too. Like this host kind of CRM space. That's also like everything is just evolving into each other. That is just interesting to see where it goes. Yeah. And then Phenom, not to kind of get on a whole nother topic here, but Phenom, there's been a bunch of announcements this year outside of the agency too. And they just acquired Edge, which is a company in India that does workforce intelligence, strategic workforce planning. And that's, you know, it's interesting.

[00:33:45] Like they'll talk about it at the conference, I'm sure. But they're seeing a lot of growth in India. They're getting pulled into skills deals. And the workforce planning piece is an important part of that. So there's, like you said, like these lines are all blurring. We could talk shop for hours. By the way, the skills thing is getting quieter. Quieter. I know. Or it's changing, right? It's changing into something. I don't know. I don't know. It just, it seems to be quieting down a little. I'm like going, uh-oh. Uh-oh. Who bought skills?

[00:34:17] We are doing a skills report. I think it's called a new conversation around skills. So you might like it. I do. I like that. All right. Hey, you can find her at Aptitude Research. She is the principal analyst and founder. And just an amazing mind in our space. So check her out. As always, I will be back next time. We are out. See you guys. HR famous. Bye-bye.