From Retail to Recruiting w. Sylvanna Berkowitz

[00:00:00] Welcome to the HigherHer Podcast by Talent Collective, presenting conversations with inspiring women in talent. And get ready, ladies, because this is the last time you're going to hear a man's voice on this show.

[00:00:14] Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Higher Her. We are a podcast put on by Talent Collective, and myself and Natalie here are the co-founders of Talent Collective, and thanks for being here today with us.

[00:00:28] So we are really excited to have a guest here today with us. Her name is Sylvanna Berkowitz, and she has been in the recruiting field for over nine years.

[00:00:38] I'm originally from the Philippines, so I always love to meet other people from the Philippines. My kids are half Filipinos, so we had to connect over that.

[00:00:48] And really, really excited to hear all about Sylvanna's recruiting journey today. She actually works for Recurrent Energy, which was an old client of mine, so that was also a little fun fact we got to connect on.

[00:01:02] So, Sylvanna, we want to pass it to you. Why don't you tell us all about you, your recruiting journey, and just what you're doing today at Recurrent?

[00:01:13] Absolutely. Thank you so much for that introduction, Krista. A little bit about my recruiting journey. I would say my recruiting journey is very similar to, I would say, 99% of the recruiters out there.

[00:01:27] I didn't know what I wanted to do, and recruiting actually just fell on my lap. I was in retail for nine years, started working since I was 16, and went to school, dropped out, and my parents were super happy about that.

[00:01:48] So, didn't know what I wanted to do, so I just started putting my resume out there, got a lot of rejections, and I sucked at interviews, first of all.

[00:02:02] But finally, I got an entry-level position for a junior recruiter for a startup tech company. It was just the team of four, and that's where my journey started.

[00:02:14] So, from there, I gained about a year, nine months worth of recruitment experience. That was in hospitality.

[00:02:22] So, not only did I work Monday through Friday, I worked weekends as well, because it was an event type of staffing agency.

[00:02:34] If someone called off, guess who filled that position? Me.

[00:02:39] Awesome.

[00:02:40] So, that was super fun, but it taught me a lot of grit, taught me, you know, I worked with a really great team.

[00:02:49] Those were people I'm still in touch with on Facebook. Like, I see them getting married and kids and stuff.

[00:02:54] So, we developed a really close bond. I would say trauma bonding is what many would call it.

[00:03:03] So, that's a little bit about my journey and so forth. Joined an oil and gas staffing agency afterwards.

[00:03:11] Been, was there for five years. Started out as a recruitment consultant.

[00:03:17] Moved my way up to, like, a team lead. And then from there, I was exhausted with the agency type of setting.

[00:03:25] So, I thought, hey, let's try the corporate side, which is some of the stories of, you know, recruiters journey, right?

[00:03:33] So, that is where I'm at now. I'm at Recurrent Energy as a corporate recruiter.

[00:03:41] I started in April. So, it's still a fresh, you know, fresh new role for me.

[00:03:46] But so far, so good. I'm just really excited. And so, that's been my journey so far.

[00:03:53] Awesome. Well, a couple other fun facts.

[00:03:56] Sylvana puts out a lot of really great content on her LinkedIn. So, everyone will have to follow her.

[00:04:02] Definitely becoming kind of an influencer of your own, which is fun.

[00:04:06] And you're in Texas, right? Remind me which area?

[00:04:10] Houston.

[00:04:11] I'm in Houston, Texas.

[00:04:12] Okay. Well, that's what I wanted.

[00:04:14] Yes.

[00:04:14] How did you know?

[00:04:15] Oil and gas.

[00:04:16] Oil and gas. Okay.

[00:04:18] Oh, yes.

[00:04:19] Natalie used to live there.

[00:04:20] And we are launching a new Talent Collective community there. So, you're going to have to join our kickoff. When is that?

[00:04:27] June.

[00:04:28] That is going to be February 11th. So, mark your calendar.

[00:04:33] Coming soon.

[00:04:34] Yay.

[00:04:35] That's exciting. I'll be there. Trust me.

[00:04:37] Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks for that rundown. Yeah, it's been really great to see your journey.

[00:04:44] I think Natalie and I can probably resonate with some of the things you were talking about. We also…

[00:04:50] Trauma bonds.

[00:04:50] Yes, trauma bonds. We had that original team that we worked with just like, I mean, in the weeds, like all the craziness.

[00:05:00] We weren't event staffing people, but we staffed plenty of events and had the calls early morning, late night.

[00:05:07] Had to be on site at some of them. So, we remember all those fun stories as well.

[00:05:13] Back when like, you had to take calls, you know, from people calling out at like 5 a.m.

[00:05:18] Oh, yes.

[00:05:18] Oh, my God. It's so early. Now we wake up at 5 a.m. naturally.

[00:05:23] Yeah, right.

[00:05:24] And I'd like to add with staffing and those type of, you know, positions that we recruit for, you have to pass a drug test.

[00:05:32] And so, there's a lot of, you know, situations where, you know, it's not so fun and a lot of candidates are very, you know, transparent about that.

[00:05:42] And I'm like, oh, okay. Can you pass a drug test?

[00:05:45] Right.

[00:05:46] Yes. Okay.

[00:05:48] Yeah. And hopefully with your own sample, right? That's the goal.

[00:05:52] Yeah.

[00:05:54] Well, awesome. Well, I'd love to get into a few questions for you.

[00:06:00] So, you know, throughout your recruiting journey these last nine years, who is somebody that you can think of that really helped elevate you in your recruiting career?

[00:06:09] We'd love to hear any stories you have.

[00:06:12] Yes.

[00:06:13] When I was in oil and gas, it was an oil and gas staffing agency.

[00:06:17] I had a, I have a fantastic coworker.

[00:06:22] She was what you would consider overqualified.

[00:06:25] So, she was certainly in that spectrum and she became my work bestie.

[00:06:31] And so, as I, you know, got promoted into a team lead position, I'm not a natural leader, right?

[00:06:40] And so, I just didn't know what to do in regards to, I don't know, like leading a team.

[00:06:48] I don't know, like didn't have any sort of like soft skills about that in regards to that.

[00:06:52] So, my, you know, my coworker, she's a Scottish, you know, woman who, you know, will tell you like straight up, you know, how it is.

[00:07:05] And so, she became a work bestie.

[00:07:06] And so, she has impacted my career just through her mentorship.

[00:07:12] I would come to her with problems and she would tell me, Sylvana, this is what you do, okay?

[00:07:18] So, and she would list out X, Y, and Z.

[00:07:21] And she would give me sort of, you know, tips that, that I, you know, I still use nowadays.

[00:07:28] And it's very, very valuable.

[00:07:29] And that is to, you know, before you ask a question, figure out if you can answer it yourself.

[00:07:36] So, you know, that lesson that she taught me, I'm still, you know, I still use that and I'm still in touch with her.

[00:07:44] You know, we went to, what was it, like rodeo in Texas.

[00:07:48] So, she bought me a hat, which I still have.

[00:07:51] So, in addition to that, sometimes we would, you know, go to lunch, right?

[00:07:57] You know, during work and have a little, you know, margarita.

[00:08:01] And so, she was so fun.

[00:08:04] I'm still in touch with her.

[00:08:06] She can out drink anyone for sure.

[00:08:09] Like two shots, she will take 10, okay?

[00:08:13] Yeah, those Scottish people, also English people, you know, you got to watch out.

[00:08:18] They're unassuming, but they'll get you.

[00:08:21] Yeah, but she was so great.

[00:08:23] And this is one of the things that I, you know, talk about in my content, you know, on LinkedIn is hire those overqualified people.

[00:08:32] They applied for a reason.

[00:08:34] And not only that, they can bring so much value to the team in your organization.

[00:08:41] Love that.

[00:08:41] Oh, my gosh.

[00:08:42] What a great, great lesson in all of that.

[00:08:45] I love the way you ended with that because, I mean, I speak with a lot of women and this is a theme with men too.

[00:08:53] But, you know, feeling like once you're over the 40s, you know, kind of in that club, you start to get this feeling of, oh, man, I'm feeling overqualified for everything.

[00:09:04] I'm feeling like ageism is really starting to kick in and, you know, not getting these roles because, you know, the company wants someone more junior or, you know, fresh.

[00:09:13] And I love that perspective and that you're really spreading the word about that because I think that that is, they applied for a reason, right?

[00:09:22] Like they do want that job.

[00:09:26] And I think one of the things companies say is, oh, well, I'm likely, you know, someone more junior isn't going to leave because they're going to find something higher paid or bigger salary, whereas this overqualified person might.

[00:09:41] But I feel like it's the reverse, right?

[00:09:43] Because the younger generation are those like job hoppers, right?

[00:09:47] Like they are more used to just finding the next best thing, whereas somebody a little bit more senior might actually be, you know, a longer term fit.

[00:09:58] Yeah, and I'm so glad you mentioned that.

[00:10:00] There's a lot of perspective of, you know, junior, you know, entry level people.

[00:10:05] Let's hire them because they might stick, you know, at a company, you know, longer than, you know, what you would consider an overqualified.

[00:10:12] But ultimately, people leave for so many different reasons.

[00:10:16] So your junior, you know, entry level person will, you know, gain their two years experience at your company and move on to another company or competitor.

[00:10:26] Whereas your, you know, overqualified candidate apply for a reason.

[00:10:31] They probably don't want to manage people anymore.

[00:10:34] They want to, you know, they just want a relaxed, you know, you know, day to day office job Monday through Friday.

[00:10:41] And they can complete their work in like, you know, five hours or so.

[00:10:45] So, yeah.

[00:10:47] Yes, I'm in the category of I don't want to manage anyone anymore.

[00:10:51] Yeah.

[00:10:51] Same category.

[00:10:53] Right.

[00:10:54] A lot of people in our generation just don't want to anymore.

[00:10:56] Yeah.

[00:10:57] It was like the sought after thing to do.

[00:10:59] But then it's like.

[00:11:02] For me, it was.

[00:11:03] Having more kids.

[00:11:03] For me, it was once I had kids.

[00:11:05] I was like.

[00:11:07] I'll let someone else do that.

[00:11:10] I love that you guys brought that up because, you know, in our, you know, in our life and social media, there's always a push for move up, move up, move up in the corporate ladder.

[00:11:23] But sometimes some people don't want to do that.

[00:11:26] You know, they they have family.

[00:11:27] They'd rather, you know, focus on their family versus, you know, climbing the corporate ladder.

[00:11:34] Yeah.

[00:11:35] And you can not you can still be good at your job.

[00:11:38] They will probably still be very good at their job.

[00:11:41] And they don't they're not always vying for that next promotion.

[00:11:45] They just want to do a really good job at their expertise.

[00:11:49] Right.

[00:11:50] Exactly.

[00:11:51] Yeah.

[00:11:52] Well, it sounds like this amazing woman was somewhat of a mentor and maybe helped elevate you in your career early on.

[00:12:00] I'm actually going to pivot a little bit.

[00:12:02] This wasn't necessarily on your list of questions, but you sounded so like inspired by this person.

[00:12:08] Is there anybody on the reverse that you think is thinking the same thing about you?

[00:12:13] Right.

[00:12:13] Is there someone that you're mentoring or maybe you don't realize it, but someone that you think you're possibly making a big impact on?

[00:12:22] Oh, you've definitely given me a question to certainly think about.

[00:12:27] Yeah.

[00:12:28] Yeah.

[00:12:29] My experience now is I've started my LinkedIn content journey, you know, growing my followers.

[00:12:35] I've experienced a lot of, you know, now junior level recruiters or, you know, people wanting to join, you know, like being a recruiter.

[00:12:46] So I'm getting a lot of messages of someone just asking me like, hey, you know, how do I get into recruiting?

[00:12:55] Or can you tell me about, you know, your day to day, you know, like operations as a recruiter?

[00:13:01] I'm really curious.

[00:13:02] So in those aspects, and the great thing about that is they found me through LinkedIn.

[00:13:08] I would have never, you know, spoken to them otherwise.

[00:13:13] But I'm sending them, you know, coffee chat, you know, team meetings so we can discuss, you know, my experience and hopefully give them an understanding, you know, of hopefully, you know, their recruiting journey.

[00:13:56] That's amazing.

[00:13:57] I think about that, you know, two years down the road when they're, you know, at a different company and say, hey, you know, I spoke with Sylvana.

[00:14:04] She was very nice versus like ghosting me, you know.

[00:14:07] So, yeah, I think that that's very important with networking and building relationships.

[00:14:12] So I hope that, you know, I became a mentor to those people.

[00:14:17] What sort of content are you putting out there and like who would best benefit from following you?

[00:14:24] Good question.

[00:14:25] Honestly, my content is very random.

[00:14:28] I sometimes post meme.

[00:14:32] I sometimes post meme, you know, like memes, just random.

[00:14:38] Anything that is relatable to the recruiting and job seeking, you know, job seeking, you know, candidates.

[00:14:45] Like also I'm very random and I also do lots of like interview tips and, you know, how to format your resume in a certain way.

[00:14:53] What type of templates to use when sending, you know, messages to recruiters.

[00:14:57] And it can be just as simple and silly.

[00:15:01] Like one time I posted a silly LinkedIn content and I wrote, he said yes with like, you know, the ring, you know, emoji.

[00:15:10] And I put under that, I put, he said yes.

[00:15:13] And, you know, he said yes.

[00:15:15] I thought after I asked him if right now is a good time to talk.

[00:15:19] And that had like 1500 likes and, you know, just silly things like that.

[00:15:25] But it's just a mix of both.

[00:15:28] I love it.

[00:15:29] Interesting to see what takes off, which posts actually take off, right?

[00:15:34] You never know, honestly.

[00:15:36] Like there are some posts I spent maybe like an hour on and then a post like that silly one.

[00:15:41] And that one got more traction than, you know, the hour I spent on one post.

[00:15:47] Yeah, exactly.

[00:15:49] Awesome.

[00:15:50] Well, let's dive into some trends in recruiting right now.

[00:15:55] We always like to talk about controversial trends, not just like the mundane, you know, what everyone is.

[00:16:02] AI.

[00:16:03] Talking about, yes, how AI is going to take everyone's house, although that's controversial.

[00:16:07] Who knows?

[00:16:08] But what do you think is a controversial trend right now in recruiting that needs more attention?

[00:16:15] Like what should we be talking about and why?

[00:16:17] Oh, yes.

[00:16:18] I love the ATS topic.

[00:16:21] That is my favorite topic, hands down.

[00:16:25] Simply because when candidates apply to, you know, using an applicant tracking system, they have no idea what is their career perspective.

[00:16:35] Right.

[00:16:36] So there's this big misunderstanding of what an ATS system is.

[00:16:42] So, you know, and I speak about that on my LinkedIn page on what ATS isn't.

[00:16:49] ATS isn't like, you know, an artificial intelligence that will automatically reject you because you have the wrong, you know, resume format.

[00:16:57] You have colors in your resume.

[00:16:59] That's a no-no.

[00:17:01] You know, or just, you know, they're lacking certain keywords in their resume, which is why they're getting rejected, which is absolutely not the case.

[00:17:09] An applicant tracking system is just a filing cabinet.

[00:17:14] What sometimes, you know, candidates perhaps, you know, confuse it is when they get rejected right away after answering knockout questions.

[00:17:25] Like, do they have a degree?

[00:17:26] Do they have, you know, technical skills and SAP, et cetera?

[00:17:30] If they answer no to those and those are hard requirements from the hiring managers, obviously they'll get rejected immediately.

[00:17:40] Yeah, definitely.

[00:17:41] I think it's interesting.

[00:17:43] I'm working with a new recruiting client right now where, like, I've never actually used knockout questions in with applications before.

[00:17:53] And it's super, super effective, but you have to know the right ones to use and you really have to be strategic about it.

[00:18:01] And I think that also encourages candidates to apply to the jobs that they're actually really qualified for.

[00:18:07] You know, I think a lot of candidates nowadays are using their own AI to do their job search for them and to auto-apply.

[00:18:15] So it kind of is one big cyclical, can be one big cyclical issue if candidates are using them to auto-apply and mass-apply and they're not getting applied to the right, you know, right jobs, et cetera.

[00:18:29] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:18:30] Absolutely.

[00:18:31] You hit the nail on the head right there.

[00:18:35] Amazing.

[00:18:35] Well, last question before we wrap up is, as a woman in your career, are there any unique challenges that you've faced and how did you overcome them?

[00:18:47] We're really big on, you know, bringing vulnerability to our audience because so many of us women have shared experiences.

[00:18:55] So anything that you're open to sharing?

[00:18:59] Yes, absolutely.

[00:19:00] Absolutely.

[00:19:00] So as a woman in the workplace, it's really important to me for companies to fully support women's, you know, fertility options.

[00:19:13] Right.

[00:19:14] And, you know, in the workplace, that's not anything that, you know, you would discuss, like you can talk about your, you know, medical benefits and whatnot.

[00:19:21] But if you bring up, you know, hey, perhaps should we include an IVF option for health plans?

[00:19:27] That's, you know, there's hesitation there.

[00:19:31] Right.

[00:19:31] Because a lot of, you know, the top people are mostly males.

[00:19:36] And, you know, would they support that?

[00:19:38] So as a woman, you know, I'm experiencing, you know, infertility, you know, issues.

[00:19:45] And unfortunately, you know, IVF is expensive.

[00:19:51] It's like $15,000.

[00:19:52] Right.

[00:19:53] Right.

[00:19:55] So my, you know, my supervisor, who is a woman, like made me feel super comfortable, you know, discussing, you know, that topic with her.

[00:20:03] And so it's very, I felt comfortable versus if it was a male.

[00:20:09] So I think in that aspect, you know, as a woman in the workplace, I think offering, you know, fertility benefits and fertility options are super important.

[00:20:19] You know, not just for me as one, but also, you know, for, you know, for the whole organization, you know, the men who have wives, right, may need, you know, infertility coverage as well.

[00:20:31] So your question.

[00:20:35] Yeah.

[00:20:35] Yeah.

[00:20:35] One thing I was thinking of too, as you were talking, I never thought about this way, but I think age ties into this conversation too, right?

[00:20:45] Not just gender and men running companies, but older men running companies who maybe already have a family or, you know, they're past that age of, you know, the reproductive years and having a young family.

[00:20:58] Right.

[00:20:58] And so maybe that's not as top of mind for them or it's not as relevant for them.

[00:21:02] Um, and so it's a little bit harder for them to get behind it.

[00:21:06] But if you look at your entire workforce and, you know, the people that are working for you, it probably is very important to a majority of the people working at your company.

[00:21:17] So thanks for sharing that.

[00:21:19] Yeah.

[00:21:20] That's a great, great example.

[00:21:21] Love it.

[00:21:23] Thanks for asking that.

[00:21:24] I think fertility coverage should be, um, you know, talked about way more right now.

[00:21:30] Get it on your LinkedIn.

[00:21:32] Start, uh, doing some posts about that.

[00:21:34] That's a good one.

[00:21:38] Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:21:40] We appreciate you spending time with us and, um, we look forward to seeing you at our Houston launch.

[00:21:46] I'll be sure to let you know about it in just a couple of months here.

[00:21:51] Um, so enjoy the rest of your week.

[00:21:54] Thank you for spending time and sharing your story.

[00:21:56] And for the rest of the audience, appreciate you tuning in.

[00:22:00] Be sure to like, share, subscribe.

[00:22:02] We're on all your typical channels, YouTube, et cetera.

[00:22:06] Um, and be sure to check out Talent Collective, our community for women in TA.

[00:22:11] Until next time.

[00:22:12] Bye, everyone.

[00:22:13] Bye.

[00:22:14] Thank you.

[00:22:15] Thank you.

[00:22:16] Bye.