Diversity in Hiring with Rocki Howard

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Hire Her Podcast by Talent Collective, presenting conversations with inspiring women in talent. And get ready ladies, because this is the last time you're going to hear a man's voice on this show.

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Hi everyone and welcome to the Hire Her Podcast by Talent Collective. Talent Collective is a community for women in the recruiting space and we are so glad you have joined us today.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_03]: My name is Krista Tan, I'm one of the co-founders of Talent Collective and I'm joined here by Natalie Stones, my other co-founder.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Hello!

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And now I'd love to introduce our very, very special guest for today, Miss Rocki Howard.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_03]: We were just actually reminiscing about how we got in touch, which was Wreckfest.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I did not go last year, but I'm going this year in just a couple of days. We're going to see each other there. It's going to be awesome.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But last year, somebody that I knew that attended had said she was one of the top, top speakers of the event.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_03]: So I had reached out to her. She's actually come and done at least one or two sessions with Talent Collective, some workshops.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_03]: So without further ado, I'd like to give a brief introduction on Rocky and I'm not going to do it justice.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So she will be able to much better talk about her background, but she is CEO at diversityology.io.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: She also has a couple of podcasts. I was just looking at your LinkedIn, so I want to hear all about those as well.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_03]: She runs communities, the grown woman. I think there's like a LinkedIn live that happens. I love that.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So tell us all about you, Rocky. Tell us about your background. We'd love to hear it all.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first, thank you so much for having me, Natalie and Krista.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm so excited to be here and I'm so thankful to the person who recommended me to you because I love being part of Talent Collective.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm Rocky Howard. I identify as she, her, black, Christian, Gen X, wife and mom.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I have been in the talent industry for 30 plus years now.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I've worked in every area of talent acquisition that you can imagine from, you know, temp to perm to contingent to retain to corporate and and really kind of spent the last amount of my time focused on RPO and ran large global RPO recruiting operations teams.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Ran the U.S. region of an RPO firm and then decided that I wanted to do more deliberate work focusing on diversity and the intersection of diversity and talent acquisition.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And so as of last year, founded Diversiology.io.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Our focus is really helping practitioners, allies and advocates optimize their resources and maximize their impact.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm so excited to be here.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Awesome. Well, thank you for that introduction.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'll start as often ask the first question here.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So tell us, you've been in recruiting and in the recruiting space for so, so long.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes it's oftentimes actually really hard to recall a standout story of maybe somebody you placed.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But is there one story that you can recall of someone maybe who's a funny story or a challenging story,

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_03]: but someone that you helped change your life and, you know, really get that dream job that they were looking for and hoping for?

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, here's the here's the one.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And I still remember her name.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Trelawney, Trelawney Bowles.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And Trelawney, if you're out there, I've been seeing you in literally 30 years.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope all is well.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And so what was so crazy about Trelawney,

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was actually a foreshadowing of my current diversity work.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_01]: This was back in like 1990, 1991, pre-LinkedIn, pre, you know, like social media.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't see people.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: This is you all when we had a, you know, we sat down at the desk and we dialed and we went through these things called the yellow pages,

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: like really back in the day.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I had, if you remember back in those days, we would do send outs.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And the like Mecca was when you could get a client to commit to a whole day and you could stack that schedule with candidates

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_01]: because you knew you had a high probability of getting someone hired.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we had stacked the calendar and the client came back at the end of the day when we were doing the debrief

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and asked us not to send any other black candidates.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And he didn't use that kind of a word.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And that black candidate was Trelawney Bowles.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And ironically, obviously, the client didn't realize that I was black.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And so honestly, placing Trelawney somewhere else wound up, we wound up finding another place for her,

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_01]: changing her life, getting her a great job.

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But I also understood what it was like to have an incredible leader and incredible companies

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: who really stood behind their values.

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So my boss, I went to him and I said, I can't work with this client.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't agree with what they said.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, if you're going to fire me, you're going to fire me, but I'm done.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, no, I'm not going to fire you.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_01]: As a matter of fact, why don't we schedule some time to go see the client?

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And so we went to see the client.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And as soon as the receptionist saw me, and obviously she knew what was happening,

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the client wound up not being busy, being very busy and not able to see us that day.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And the organization I was working with severed ties with that company.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So while I didn't know it back then, like it literally was a foreshadowing for me advocating

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: for candidates with all dimensions of diversity.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_03]: That is a perfect example of a great reason to fire a client.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And I've had to do similar things.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for sharing that.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_03]: And that must have been really difficult for you to be put in that position.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And also very happy to hear that you ended up placing Trelawney somewhere else.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It was amazing.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_01]: It was, it wasn't amazing at the time.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It was very frightening.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you don't stand for something in the important moments, you'll certainly fall for

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: anything in every moment.

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a perfect segue.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Like you probably didn't realize it was such an inspiration for you at that time to start

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: your business at Bursiology.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But would you say that that was like an early ticking point for you to really move the needle

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: to start your own company?

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And if so, tell us more about that journey and getting the business started.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And what are the sorts of things that you offer?

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe like some future, excuse me, some future plans for the company.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, you know what?

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's really interesting.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the things that you learn as a full desk recruiter are certainly a really good foundation

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: to being an entrepreneur, right?

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's all driven.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You, you, you know, in our world, they say you eat what you kill, but it really sets you

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_01]: up with all of the correct skills of learning how to manage your time, how to hit deadlines,

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: how to focus, how to build your brand, you know, and all of those kinds of things.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I've known for a very long time that I would do something.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't quite know what it was.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm one of those people that's really lucky.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I love focusing in on talent acquisition day after day.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I loved what I did.

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I wasn't in a rush.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I also was the sole provider for a family of six.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: We non-traditionally, when we got to kid number four, decided my husband would be the

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: stay-at-home parent.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I also felt that pressure of keeping a stable job and career.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't hard for me because I absolutely loved what I did.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: But I knew as I came into this next phase of my life, and I was really focusing on diversity

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_01]: work, I found a problem.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And the problem was, is that practitioners and allies and advocates didn't have the resources

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that they needed.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't have the time, the skills, the budget, the resources to really be able to

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_01]: have the impact that they needed.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And certainly if you worked for an SMB, you weren't going to get these big budgets and you

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: didn't have a chief diversity officer to help you, et cetera.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And I felt called to solve that problem.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like I had a unique set of skills that have allowed me to do it.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And so Diversiology has taken, I say this all the time, I'm building the platform that

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I wish I had when I was sitting in those seats.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what's amazing to it.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, today you can join our free community and we offer everything from curated

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: daily news to diversity calendars and free resources, et cetera.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: We're just about to launch our first product, which is our inclusivity aptitude assessment

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that allows companies to be able to look at how inclusive they are throughout the talent

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: management lifecycle.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have a complete roadmap of things that we'll be launching throughout the beginning

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Q1 of next year.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So we've come into the market to be a digital program manager, to help allies and practitioners

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and advocates so that we can do it in an affordable, actionable, pragmatic way.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That's amazing.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: We need that assessment for all of our community members.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you for sharing.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, it's just incredible that the work that you're doing and you've been such an inspiration

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_03]: to us.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: We'd love to shift a little bit here to talk about something, someone or something that

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_03]: has inspired you in your career along the way.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it's another woman leader, a mentor, a book, someone or something that has really

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_03]: helped you along your journey in your career.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I am so lucky to be surrounded by people who inspire me and women who inspired me all the

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_01]: time, including you all and what you're doing at Talent Collective.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: When I think about some of the people in the TA industry, like current day, I think about

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Ursula Williams over at SIA and the work that she's doing.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I think about Megan McCann at McCann Associates.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I think about the folks in the team over at Women of Color and Staffing who are doing

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: incredible work.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the person right now in current times that is really inspiring me is Michelle

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Sims, the CEO over at YourPro.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And the work that she's doing through her placement service to really advocate for historically

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_01]: underrepresented talent and has built a whole business around it is just amazing.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And Michelle is an amazing human.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think for me, I'd be remiss without giving a shout out to Ray Pearson.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Ray Pearson founded Alpha Ray Personnel back in the day, as you can tell by the title when

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: we were still calling it Personnel.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And she made time for this little girl who, and like I was really young when I started in

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the industry.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, she was this Black woman who ran her own service, who was really very successful.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And being able to look up to someone that looked like me, that made time for me, literally made

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_01]: space for me.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So I walk in her shoes.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_03]: That's so special.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_03]: We oftentimes talk about, and one of the reasons we've started in Talent Collective is, you know,

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_03]: there can be times or industries where women that you look up to don't give you the time

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_03]: of day or even worse, you know, maybe cut you down.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And we really want to create a space where women are supporting other women and helping

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_03]: to empower one another.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And similar to what you were saying about your journey, you know, these are all the reasons

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_03]: like we wish something like this had been available for us when we were in our recruiting

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_03]: careers.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So can I tell a story right now?

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So if anyone is listening and is not a member of the Talent Collective, I want to tell you a

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: really quick story.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I actually have a client that I'm doing work with today because someone reached out

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_01]: to Krista and said, who would you recommend?

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And Krista recommended me.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I talked to that person and they are now a client of mine.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's how this community works.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It is about women supporting each other and women.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And I could give, you know, a couple other examples of just great interactions I've had

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: within the community.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're a person who needs like ROI, like this kind of ROI, I can tell you I have

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: client business because of belonging to Talent Collective.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_03]: That is so great to hear.

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And I actually just sent your website to somebody else, I think on Friday.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So hopefully more to come.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Those are precisely the experiences that we want.

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_02]: While we like first started it, we thought, okay, well, maybe it'll help people get jobs or just

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: like up level in their careers or make new friends.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Then we started to realize, oh, people actually like hiring each other and they are like doing

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: business together.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: They're referring clients.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's just so many amazing things that are coming out.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Amazing.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for sharing that story.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And we are coming up at time.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted to thank you for spending time with us today.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: How can our listeners find you?

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Because many of them are probably going to want your assessment that is coming out soon

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and or have some needs and could be future clients.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So where can they best find you and get in touch?

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can find me on LinkedIn.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You can find Diversiology on LinkedIn.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And certainly in either one of those places and on our website, you can find a link to

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: our free community.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll make sure you all have it so that you can share with the audience as well.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm always happy to hear from people, especially people who are connected with Talent Collective.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, Rocky.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: We appreciate you coming on to the podcast and, you know, giving some sessions to our members.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And we will see you very soon at breakfast.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I can't wait to see you all.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you listeners for tuning in.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Be sure to like, share, subscribe.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You can find us on all of the major podcast channels and YouTube.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And we will see you next week.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Goodbye.