How Gen Z Can Navigate the Modern Job Search

[00:00:00] Welcome. This is Hashtag Gen Z, a podcast that explores Generation Z, who they are, how they're different from other generations while also being an incredible blend of those who came before them. We explore what they think is cool and what moves them and why

[00:00:26] they do what they do. I'm your host, Meghan Grace, and it is so nice to have you here. This is episode 54. As we discussed in the last episode, Gen Z is coming into the world

[00:00:35] of work with a set of expectations for the companies and organizations they want to join. And they are establishing those expectations earlier in life, along with starting their job search earlier in their college careers. But just because Gen Z is arguably more career-oriented

[00:00:51] than previous generations does not mean they're navigating career development without their own set of challenges or experiencing barriers. A recent study by Ripple Match, a recruitment automation platform, reported on the landscape of Gen Z job searching.

[00:01:05] From the recent Fall 2023 report, Ripple Match shared some of the most common challenges Gen Z faces in their job search. The number one challenge that Gen Z cited, which was cited by over 60% of job searchers, is having their applications stand out and progressing

[00:01:20] to the interview stage. 45% indicate they experience challenges of being ghosted by recruiters and 1 in 3 indicate they struggle to find jobs that are right fit for their skill set and interests. And when they asked how many applications they predict

[00:01:36] extending out, more than half of Gen Z plan to send over 100 applications for jobs. So it's safe to say Gen Z is certainly dedicated to their job search and building their career path, but it's also clear that they see road bumps ahead. But does

[00:01:49] it really have to be this way? My guess this episode is actually trying to change that. I'm joined by Sophie O'Brien, the founder of Paul & Careers, a job platform on a mission to transform the entry-level job market to be more inclusive

[00:02:03] and an equitable space. Having recruited, mentored and tutored many young people over the last decade, Sophie's determined to break down the many barriers that young people face when looking for their right path and champion those who deserve a fairer

[00:02:16] chance. As the founder of Paul & Careers, Sophie's using her experience and passion to help entry-level candidates land a career that inspires them to be their best, regardless of their background or experience level, and to encourage employers to ditch

[00:02:30] outdated screening methods, which often lead to ineffective and biased hiring. There's so much to explore with Sophie. So let's get into it. Well, welcome, Sophie. It is so wonderful to have you here, and I'm excited to

[00:02:47] have you be a part of today's conversation. I think that as I've been exploring kind of Gen Z in terms of jobs and careers, there's a really important part of that whole process and that whole journey. And that's the very beginning when they

[00:03:00] even start thinking about career development and applying for the jobs. And that is where you're coming in to talk to us a lot more today. But welcome, Sophie. It's so exciting to have you here. Thank you. Yeah, it's great to be here.

[00:03:10] Thanks for having me. Tell us a little bit more about your story, kind of not just like who you are and what your role is, but a little bit about the journey that got you to the work that you're doing today.

[00:03:21] Yeah, of course. So I, my background is maths, like totally different to what I do now. So I, I love maths at school. I went and did a maths degree. I just kept doing what I love doing. And when I left university, I had absolutely no idea

[00:03:42] what I wanted to do. My careers advisors at school and university told me I should be an accountant or a maths teacher. I went and tried the maths teaching thing and that was absolutely not for me. And I ended up falling into a career

[00:04:00] in media and advertising, having absolutely no idea that that would be relevant to my strengths or that I would enjoy doing it or it would be a good cultural and values fit for me. And I ended up doing that for 14 years.

[00:04:18] And I absolutely loved it. But for me, like the thing that I found frustrating about that was that I had no idea that that industry even existed. I had no idea that I would be

[00:04:30] well suited to it. And having done a lot of recruitment on the other side, so in my last job, I was doing recruitment in a small business and we were always bringing in junior talent to that company. It was sort of a similar story. Sometimes we'd like try

[00:04:48] and find people in alternative places and they've never even heard of it. Like we were looking for data geeks and analysts and things like this, but nobody heard about it.

[00:04:58] So I guess I went and set up, I went and decided to set up this business after a career doing that because I was just like, nothing has changed. It's still really hard to figure out

[00:05:12] what you want to do, how to go about doing that thing. And trying to get your foot in the door is almost impossible, even though it's so difficult for employers to find great people. And there's this massive disconnect that exists between education and the workplace.

[00:05:33] And things are changing so much that I really just wanted to do what I could to help people and fix these problems. So that's how my company, Pollen Careers was founded. And I've now been doing that for 18 months. And we've built our community to 3000 people, which is amazing.

[00:05:56] And yeah, we do exactly that. We help young job seekers with whatever we can to make their process of finding a job more productive and ultimately more positive. That's wonderful. So it's interesting because like while you started with math and have evolved outside of that,

[00:06:13] I'm sure those early years of teaching young people probably had a lot of influence. Like you were some of their first people that were probably guiding them towards careers, whether you saw that or not. But let's talk a little bit about Pollen. And I know that it's been

[00:06:27] something that you've been working on for the last 18 months. And it's fantastic to hear that you've grown that community to the level that it is. A lot of people can do job search and

[00:06:36] career support. I feel like there's tons of that on LinkedIn, right? So how does Pollen provide kind of a different approach to that? And what are some of the things that make it unique

[00:06:45] and how it's helping young people or as you've identified, kind of junior talent or entry talent into their industry and kind of exploring careers? Yeah. So I feel like a lot of the advice out there is very much geared around how to conform

[00:07:05] to the system. It's like how to build the perfect CV or how to write the best cover letter. And ultimately, those things aren't necessarily a golden ticket to getting a job because you can't like if companies are looking for people with the best degrees from the

[00:07:26] best university or people that have tons of relevant experience, which unfortunately they are, like you can't just make those things up. And unfortunately, a lot of people are forced to do so because they can't get their foot in the door and they can't compete against these elitist

[00:07:41] measures. What we are trying to do is basically revolutionize the whole thing and say, well, hang on a minute. Maybe the CV isn't the solution. Maybe encouraging people to write a better CV is not the solution here because let's face it, you can just use ChatGPT

[00:07:58] to create a new CV. There's so many AI tools out there to help you can cheat the system. So we've basically created a model that tries to make job hunting much more inclusive for everybody and say, well, let's try and matchmake you as an individual with a job

[00:08:23] that is right for your strengths and like your basic competencies but also your values. So that's kind of our main product that we have created to try and break down those barriers

[00:08:39] and make sure that everybody gets a fair shot. When we're working with our community in terms of more employability type initiatives, again, we're adopting a bit of a different approach here. I feel like this is certainly the case in the UK. We have a culture of conforming.

[00:08:59] Our education system is very much geared around how do you stay in your lane? Do the things that we ask of you and don't go out, don't challenge anything. Stay inside your box and do what is

[00:09:14] asked of you. Don't step out of line. Don't speak up. Don't voice your opinions. And I feel like this culture is so misaligned with how young people are and how they behave. It's so misaligned with Gen Z's values, and it's also totally misaligned with what employers want.

[00:09:37] So what we're trying to do is almost empower them and say, no, you know what? It's okay to be authentic. It's okay to be yourself because that's what's going to help you build confidence. That's what's going to make you stand out in an interview setting.

[00:09:50] It's okay to be curious. It's okay to ask original questions. You don't need to ask these standardized questions of what am I going to do on a day-to-day basis? What we're trying to encourage people to do is actually care, be curious, show real genuine interest

[00:10:08] in this job. Flatter them. Push yourself out of your comfort zone. Say how awesome this is. Go for it. Don't hold back because actually that proactivity and that passion and enthusiasm can

[00:10:20] ultimately help you to get the job. And even if it doesn't, you could build your network or somebody could remember you and think, oh, they'd be great for another job. Wow, that person really, really wanted it. We're trying to just empower people

[00:10:36] and spread a message of it's okay to do that. So that kind of leads me to my next question. Where does the name Pollen come from? And I feel like I'm going to answer the question. I feel like I'm deducing to the answer, but if

[00:10:50] you could share a little bit more where it is based on your model and what you do, how does that inspire the name that you all have? So Pollen is really about growth. That's how it came about. And it's sort of a growth mindset.

[00:11:06] What we're trying to encourage people to do is push themselves out of their comfort zone and open their minds to different things they might not have considered before, whether that's a different industry or a different job or a different pathway.

[00:11:21] Like it's all about growth and we really encourage that growth mindset. It's also from an employer perspective, all about growth of their businesses. A lot of the businesses that we work with are typically SMEs. They're growing companies.

[00:11:35] They're always on the lookout for new people to come in. They want to grow and they want people that are going to come in and make an impact on their business. And yeah, that all represents growth. There's sort of other dimensions to it, which I also really like.

[00:11:50] I'm a passionate feminist. I like the fact that the female empowerment side of Pollen and female leadership is really important to me. And thirdly, very random reason is because I'm from Manchester and Bea is like the emblem of Manchester. So there's a personal relationship.

[00:12:12] We love a multi-layered name, beautiful symbolism. So somebody once told me actually that I should ditch the name because it's too obscure. And I was like, no, I mean, if it works, it works, right? And it's unique. It's so other

[00:12:28] people are going to listen to it. So we've spent a good amount of time mentoring and tutoring through obviously being a former math instructor, maths, if we're talking about the UK, my friends. We've also spent significant amount of time recruiting and seeing, I think,

[00:12:44] the experiences that young people, whether those are Gen Z or potentially late millennials, really the challenges and barriers that young people are experiencing in their career path. I think it's a difficult thing. There's a lot of personal identity that goes into it.

[00:12:58] But if you could summarize, what do you think are some of the main challenges and barriers that you've specifically seen for Gen Z experience in determining their career path? Um, it's a really interesting question. I feel like there's

[00:13:15] there's a lot of dimensions that go into this. I think one of the barriers that I see in the UK is that schools are massively under resourced and careers provisions in schools are typically reliant on teachers to facilitate a careers program and like get things off the

[00:13:42] ground. And ultimately having been a teacher, there is no capacity to do that. There's no capacity to breathe, let alone set up and design a really brilliant careers program. And typically a lot of teachers in this country have only ever been teachers. So they're not

[00:14:01] necessarily that connected with the working world and understand how it has changed, which of course it has done, especially over the, I mean, it's changed a lot in the last three years, let alone the last 40 years. So the guidance has pretty much stayed the same.

[00:14:18] And I think a lot of young people therefore are reliant on family and friends and connections to give them that insight on what sort of career path that they should take or how to go out doing

[00:14:34] that. I think another major barrier, and this is very much what I see in the UK, is that there is still very much a rhetoric of what do you want to do? And it's just, it's not realistic

[00:14:50] anymore. Nobody chooses a career path and then just stays, gets a job and then stays in that job for their entire career. And one thing that we are a massive advocate of is squiggly careers.

[00:15:05] And ultimately people go in so many different directions to get to where they want to be. And I feel like that pressure of knowing what you want to do should just be removed entirely.

[00:15:20] You can do so many different things and have a fulfilling career. Like, I mean, I, like, I don't know what I want to do. Like, I'm 35 years old. I've done so many different things.

[00:15:29] Like, what I want to do today might differ from what I want to do tomorrow. And I feel like that younger people need to know that it's okay that they don't know what they want to do.

[00:15:42] And employers need to stop expecting people to know what they want to do. Because like, ultimately that doesn't necessarily get them the best person for the job. You end up inflicting bias on a knowledge basis by assuming that everybody knows what they want to do.

[00:16:01] They've heard about your industry. They've heard about this profession. I mean, there's so many jobs that don't even exist yet. So where does this concept even come from? I think I love, I mean, I love the idea of the squiggly career because it's absolutely true and much more

[00:16:13] realistic. I think the challenges that you've stated in the UK, we've got them in the US as well. And I know it's other places that teachers are in a very pivotal position to influence young

[00:16:24] people, but at the same time, they have a lot of pressure on them. They're like, you got to teach this curriculum and change lives and keep everybody safe and make sure that we've hit

[00:16:34] metrics. Right? And I know that there's even people, professionals in the US where their job is just helping students go to university and making sure that they get to the right university. And then it's like, okay, when they're in college, they'll figure out what

[00:16:47] they want to do. But I think that that also is counterintuitive to what we know from a higher education lens that a lot of young people don't want to go to university, don't want to go

[00:16:55] to college if they don't have a career path in mind because they're like, I'm about to spend four years and a lot of money doing it. And so it's a lot of pressure. I think that

[00:17:05] we're putting on literal teenagers to be like, what do you want to do in your life's career? And I hope it works out for you. When in the reality, as people that have been in their

[00:17:16] career know that it gets real squiggly even in the first year of college and we change our mind. I feel like we shouldn't have to make a decision about whether they go into higher education until they're like 25. Like, I feel like what should happen is that they leave

[00:17:33] school, they go and work, they see where they what they're good at, what they enjoy, what they don't enjoy. And then, like I don't say your brain is still developing until you're 25. Like neurologically, like how can, how is it fair to make people make really quite serious

[00:17:51] decisions about their future when they're like 16 years old? That's when you're still a child. And like actually by that age, you've probably figured out, oh, well, you know, maybe I do want to go and be a doctor. But then you've had that time to figure that out

[00:18:06] and you're like, okay, yeah, I'm informed. Like I know I'm an adult and like I know what's ahead. I know that this would spend 10 years of study and exams, but I think somebody that's 25, 26 is much better informed to make that decision than somebody that's 16. That's a huge pressure.

[00:18:27] Well, and I think you bring up a really good point as well where I really want to talk is employers and organizational leaders and the expectations we have of entry level or junior talent, however we want to frame it. People coming right out of college or potentially

[00:18:42] right out of high school or secondary education and the expectation that they're coming in with five years experience and a deep passion for being someone's marketing assistant or being an executive assistant or whatever it is that we're expecting. I think a big problem is that

[00:18:59] we've got employers and we've got organizational leaders that are expecting the literal 18 year old or the 22 year old to come in and be like, I've got four years of experience and I'm going to be a lifelong passionate person about fill in the blank industry. When everyone

[00:19:18] knows who has ever been in a job, that is not the case. Right? Like sometimes we just need a foot in the door and be excited about that job. So tell me, Sophie, what can,

[00:19:29] if we're going to kind of turn it like we've identified some of the challenges that we've got going on, some we can't fix right away, right? Like teachers being too busy, that probably

[00:19:38] is something that you and I can't immediately fix. But something I do think that we can do is send some good messages to employers, people that are hiring this generation so that they can adapt practices to potentially minimize barriers or alleviate challenges. What is that

[00:19:52] look like for employers or organizational leaders that want to attract Gen Z talent while also reducing the frustration and barriers that young people might be experiencing? Yeah. So yeah, there's a lot of things that, yeah, as you say, but they can be fixed.

[00:20:10] They can be. The first one is inclusivity. And this is what we champion to all of our employers. Any employees that we work with, we say you can't screen on a degree. We don't

[00:20:30] even look at that. That isn't taken into account when we are trying to match an employer with someone in our community. And it just so happens that most people actually do have degrees because that is the default in our education system that people do go on to university.

[00:20:49] But what that means is that we're not like when you're in a recruiter's position, which I have been, when you're hiring at entry level, you don't really have much to go off on a CV.

[00:21:01] So you're forced to screen on these crazy measures. Like have they got a degree from a top university? Have they got relevant experience? All of this sort of stuff. But really those things aren't indicators that somebody's going to be good at the job.

[00:21:16] And you end up excluding loads of amazing people who for some, maybe they did try to go to university and it wasn't right for them and they dropped out. Maybe they had a crisis. Maybe they experienced a trauma and it meant that they couldn't complete their studies.

[00:21:32] Maybe the education system just wasn't right for them, but they are so entrepreneurial and so unbelievable. You would be missing out on these exceptional individuals. You also, I feel like inclusivity is such a major value for a lot of Gen Z.

[00:21:51] And by almost removing that, you automatically open up the talent pool because they're like, oh great, I can see that this is an inclusive employer. They don't actually care about degrees. I might have a degree, but I have confidence in their culture. And that's a big tick when

[00:22:08] you're trying to build an employer brand and appeal to candidates. The second one is feedback. And there is a real issue in the UK with an absence of feedback or poor quality feedback. And again, it's not necessarily a recruiter or a talent acquisition manager's fault with the

[00:22:35] lack of feedback. They might have hundreds, if not thousands of applications to screen through. They can't possibly provide feedback to everybody. And I feel like the job sports have created this problem. It's so seemingly easy to apply for jobs as a job seeker, but it's also

[00:22:51] very easy to reject on the other side. But I feel like if you're going to speak to people, there's a common decency of feedback. And I think it's overlooked just how critical this is to the whole employment ecosystem. If you don't provide that person with any feedback,

[00:23:13] they can't improve for next time. And they are going to continue to apply for some, in some cases, hundreds of jobs and they still don't know where they are going wrong. And that person that has applied to that job, if you've got some like really critical feedback

[00:23:29] of they didn't do this, they didn't do or like this was an issue. They showed up without a top on. I've heard of that happening. But if you don't tell that person for next time, they're going to continue showing up to interviews without a top on, without

[00:23:45] realizing that that is an issue. And if everybody took a bit of time, just half an hour of your day to just send a couple of sentences of look, it's an issue. You're not wearing a top. It's

[00:23:58] inappropriate. Like just a reference for next time. You could not only change that person's life, but you're making the next recruiter's life easier. And that will come full circle back to you. This is about sustainability. So like those are the, like dropping your screening

[00:24:15] criteria, opening up the talent pool and taking the time to give people a better candidate experience is what is going to create more, better sustainability. Yeah. And what I'm hearing is it kind of sounds like we have in some cases,

[00:24:32] mass produced job searching, mass produce the ability to apply to jobs. And then on the receiving end, those who are getting all those applications recruiters are like overwhelmed with the volume that they have to get through. And so they're using the few signaling things

[00:24:48] that they do have, which is maybe a degree from a good university. I listened to a really great podcast or it might've been kind of an audio series from Malcolm Gladwell. And he talks about how in the U S specifically, there are law schools that won't even interview

[00:25:06] you if you're not even from these top 10 schools. Well, to get in the top 10 school, you have to just be really good at taking the LSAT. It has nothing to do with, are you actually

[00:25:15] that good at being a lawyer? What you learn in law school. And so it's like, can you get into the program is the only thing because you're more likely to survive once you get in the

[00:25:26] program. And so the competitive nature of like, are you just good at taking a standardized test is what we're really screening on a CV. Yeah, is what we're looking at. Like writing like a good resume, like is evidence that you're good at writing

[00:25:41] a good resume? So like, unless you're hiring somebody to write resumes, why would you consider that to be evidence that they're going to be good at the job? So even somebody that's interviewing, like that's evidence that they're good at interviewing. Is that

[00:25:56] evidence that they're actually going to go to the job? So it sounds like if I'm hearing you correctly, Sophie, we need to challenge employers and recruiters to do a little bit of the candidate assessment. That's more in line with skills

[00:26:11] that are more in line with the reality of the job that they would be doing. I know I've got a friend, a few friends right now job searching as we all kind of are all the

[00:26:19] time. And the assignments, right? Like I there's like the doling out of assignments after you get through like just the resume portion. And I feel like the assignment actually would be more important and indicative of if the person can do the job. Like this,

[00:26:31] one of my friends was looking at a sales role and they're like, write a cold sales email or like an email that would at least generate a phone call with a prospective client. To me, if I'm hiring a salesperson, that seems like it would be more important than

[00:26:45] what like, yeah, I want to know kind of like who you work for, but I can see that on your LinkedIn. Can't I not? And so I'm like, I think I would rather know like,

[00:26:53] okay, show me how you perform and not tell me how you perform. Right. And I think that there's a lot of things that employers could probably be doing as we look at this younger generation,

[00:27:03] because I think you pointed out there's so many opportunities for developing a really good cover letter or a resume that does highlight your your experiences. But really is just, I don't want to say AI generated like it's a bad thing, but it's been run through AI to

[00:27:21] make sure it passes through the screening systems that we all know exist. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's so many industries that have always been based on skills. Like if you want to get into acting, you have to audition. You don't just like write

[00:27:40] on a piece of paper, I'm really good at acting and then get the job. So like why, I don't understand why this hasn't been like more widely adopted as a screening measure for other industries. And what we and sometimes I see, I see on LinkedIn,

[00:27:58] a lot of challenge in this like assessment based screening, that it's not fair that people should have to go like, go to do have to jump through another hoop. But for me, like it's a replacement. And ultimately, if you're going to commit to

[00:28:15] providing feedback as a consequence, if they're going to get something out of it, I don't believe that it detracts from the candidate experience at all. In fact, what we have with our processes is people almost using it as a diagnostic tool.

[00:28:32] Because so many younger job seekers don't really understand what jobs exist or like what the day to day actually entails. I mean, who knows that especially if it's your first job, is such alien territory, they will do our assessments and then be like, oh, that's

[00:28:51] just, that's not what I thought it would be. Self-de-selected as a consequence have said, oh, actually, no, I don't like working on spreadsheets every day. Cool. Don't apply to those sorts of jobs then, you know, at least you get to find this out sooner rather than later.

[00:29:07] Well, yeah. And I think that you bring up the demystifying element of thinking one thing. And then the fact that like what is actually involved in a job is sometimes not super clear. Like people be like, I'll use finance, my husband's in finance, like he works in

[00:29:24] financial analytics and like, but he's not sitting there crunching like he's crunching numbers. But it's not like your typical, like let me do finance, like banking, right? People will be like, I'm going to business. We're like, that's a gigantic umbrella. What

[00:29:37] function of business are you going to be in there? I think I want to do marketing. And then you have to even slice that up a little bit further. And you're like, what kind of marketing? Like, do you want to do strategic communications? Are you doing

[00:29:47] media? Are you doing just pure brand management? There's so many different things and trying to navigate all of that and being like, and then I'm going to go get years of experience so that I

[00:29:57] can get an entry level job that is likely underpaying me. It's a lot for a young person. And then at the same time, we're like, develop your whole brain and your identity and

[00:30:07] find a way to navigate and allow that to be professionally appropriate. It's a lot to put on young people. And I'm not going to say like, what was them? But I think the unspoken

[00:30:17] expectations that we put in front of people make it very cumbersome for people to figure it out. I also think there's a way that I think that young people get painted as, oh, they're job

[00:30:31] hopping. They're not loyal, but they're really just trying to pay their bills. Right? Like we all are. And so they're going to take the first few jobs that they can get because

[00:30:41] they have jobs. Yeah, they've got bills to pay. And so I don't think that we need to fault someone for being at a job for a year or two and realizing this wasn't the best fit for me.

[00:30:51] I did learn. I hate spreadsheets, right? Like they learned they hated spreadsheets and they want a non-spreadsheet job. Nothing wrong with that. They shouldn't be penalized because they figure out what they like and don't like doing. That's fair enough. And I think that

[00:31:06] it's a lot for some businesses to get their heads around this. I think that there's still a bit of an assumption that people that do job hop or move jobs frequently are going to be

[00:31:19] disloyal. But back to what I was saying earlier, is that a bad thing? Or are they just empowered? Maybe they've added tons of value in that year or two years that they were there.

[00:31:32] Maybe then moving on could be a good thing for your business because it means that you get to bring in somebody fresh, like somebody with new perspective. Maybe you've been a platform for their career. Maybe you've been a springboard. Maybe they're going to be a future client and

[00:31:47] they're going to be coming back to you because they're like, oh, that marketing agency that I first went to was an amazing business and they have amazing people. Maybe they're so ambitious that they're then the CMO at an amazing brand and they're looking for marketing agencies and

[00:32:02] they've come full circle because you offered such an amazing employment experience to that individual. How are these things a bad thing? I think that there's a little bit of personal pride and not to knock employers and organizations, but I think there's a little bit of personal pride

[00:32:17] and I think that we all need to just forget the idea that people are lifers at their jobs anymore and being completely okay with being pit stops or being stops along the way in

[00:32:28] people's career journeys. The reality is people don't work the same job like they used to for 50 years and retire. Exactly. I think the frustration, it's a lot easier to be like, oh, they're disloyal instead of just saying we were part of their journey for the time

[00:32:46] that we were part of their journey and we wish them the best of luck and we are glad to have been a part of that journey. I think that it's easier to place the frustration

[00:32:55] because when you do have turnover, it is complicated. You got to hire new people, you got to train new people, you got to get them on board, you got to get them up to speed and so

[00:33:03] there is this constant churn of our HR professionals are probably like, yeah, we know, but there's a constant churn of having to manage talent and that's why that's people's full jobs is making sure that people are coming in, they're getting trained and hopefully they're

[00:33:18] staying for a long time, but fit is so important. I know I've had team members on, they haven't been a good fit and you want them to find their good fit because you want to be

[00:33:28] working with people that are a good fit for you as well. I think that that's this mutual understanding of sometimes the fit just erodes and it's nobody's real fault, there needs to be

[00:33:40] some changes. I think there's a lot of mental work from an employer and a leader side that we can be taking from all of this as well. Now let's talk a little bit about Gen Z and the

[00:33:56] potential advice that you have. I know you've got a great community, you've said 3,000 young people that are in your community which is fantastic as they're trying to think about defining and advancing their career path. There's more members of Gen Z beyond the 3,000,

[00:34:09] so there might be some that are listening that are probably wondering what some of the advice that you might have is as they're thinking about defining their career path. What would you tell the young people today as they're trying to figure this out?

[00:34:22] You know what, I think it goes back to that sort of squiggly career and figuring things out and just trying things. We actually have our own podcast as well and one of the best pieces

[00:34:35] of advice that came out of it in a previous episode was just say yes because you don't know what doors could open as a consequence. Nothing negative is typically going to happen

[00:34:50] if you give something a go and it might like, if you find that you meet somebody and they're like oh we're looking for some administrative support in our company or something would you be

[00:35:04] open to it? It might not seem like your dream career, it might not be for a big sexy brand, it might have some mundane administrative tasks involved in the job but you will learn something.

[00:35:20] You will learn what you like doing, you might learn what you don't like doing, you might meet some interesting people, you will build your network, you will understand what cultures you align with most, where your values are, you'll figure out, you'll learn

[00:35:36] about the frustrations of working with different people and different personalities and you'll think well I can't handle working with those sorts of people, I love working with these sorts of people and this is all a learning curve. Once you've done that first step,

[00:35:49] everything does somewhat get easier because you've started to build up your own personal values and motivations and you're like okay well this part I love, this part I love less so

[00:36:03] how can I do more of this? So I think that's one critical part. The other part which I have probably massively underestimated through my career is your network and it's not something that I have ever placed a huge amount of importance on actually until I set up my

[00:36:26] own business. The only time I ever really posted on LinkedIn was to just put a job update or something. I went on it but just to read what other people posted and I've always had,

[00:36:41] I don't really use social media so I have massive social media anxiety but setting up my own business I was like right I need to break through this anxiety because I see how content can be really powerful and actually how networking could be really beneficial for me

[00:37:02] and I see so many parallels with entrepreneurship and growing a business as I do looking for a job. I've met so many phenomenal people on LinkedIn, people that want to support me and some of these people have ended up becoming my customers, some of them have ended

[00:37:27] up being my investors, a lot of them are just cheering me on from the sidelines and it's actually quite an empowering space to be. What I have learned is that one conversation can change everything and if you're a job seeker or you're thinking about what you're going to

[00:37:48] do as a career, just speak to as many people as you possibly can and for some young people that's incredibly overwhelming. I found it overwhelming because it's a bit alien territory isn't it just speaking to the strangers but the more that you do it the more that you'll

[00:38:05] gain confidence and there's so many people out there that really want to help like they feel it makes them feel good. People that are further along in their career journey they really really want to help because chances are they probably had a really negative experience when

[00:38:20] they were first starting out and they wish they'd have more help and there is that support out there so find mentors, build a network, go to in-person networking events and stuff like this

[00:38:32] like build up, if you see an event go with a friend and try and do what you can set a target and say right I'm gonna connect with three people at this event and just go for it

[00:38:46] and you could make those three contacts and then leave but at least you've done something and these are all really great stepping stones to get it, even just figuring out what you

[00:38:56] want to do. In fact really scary statistic is that like I think it's 70 to 80 percent of jobs aren't publicly promoted and that is because of networking so actually like it could get you a

[00:39:11] job as well. I think that's so important the um I think it's yes it's the who you know but then it's also how you keep up with them about the network and it's not like you can I'm

[00:39:24] not saying you have to like foster that kind of stuff every single day of your life but I'm a big fan of LinkedIn so you can be my friend on LinkedIn but it is actually I have friends that

[00:39:36] I have friends you know like put quotes around that because like I've actually never met them in person they've just been really good supporters and people on LinkedIn and who want to see you

[00:39:45] succeed. I find that it is actually a place that when you buy into it you're part of it you actually engage with it their platform the algorithm feeds good things to you. It's one

[00:39:57] of the few that I actually trust to feed me the things that I need but I think that you're absolutely right. The concept of most jobs are kind of like who you know right like that phrase

[00:40:08] is so applicable. Right it doesn't make it okay and we're trying to break down those barriers for people but that's not going to change overnight. Yep and I think that that element of the network is so important because you know you're right you can go to that networking

[00:40:27] event and you meet those three people and that's fantastic. That's three more people than you knew going into it and it might not be a job immediately but sometimes jobs come six months

[00:40:36] down the road and they're like oh yeah I did meet that really nice so-and-so at this event. I wonder what they're up to. The only way they can get a hold of you is if you had a business

[00:40:44] card which like I lose those all the time if you exchange your contact information but realistically LinkedIn is a great way if you're like hey we have this job popped up you might

[00:40:53] be interested. Yeah so young people all people people of all ages make sure you're on your LinkedIn and it is updated. Well Sophie we are about at our time there's been a lot of great things that you've shared I think there's so many wonderful things that you've

[00:41:09] shared about kind of bringing the human element back to job searching. The element of being okay with swiggly lines and career exploration that isn't linear but when you think about Generation Z and the young people that you're working with which I'm so glad that

[00:41:25] they've got you in this community of people that can look to you for that support but what is your favorite thing about Gen Z? Oh for sure like their standards like they they are the

[00:41:39] generation with the highest standards of anybody else. In fact I was at an event yesterday and I was on a panel with two young girls who well young women who were they proactively chose not to go to university and they're doing apprenticeships and they're a year into

[00:42:01] their apprenticeship so I think they're in their early 20s if that and they were phenomenal and we were talking about how the world of work should be and what they see as being good

[00:42:18] workplaces and the things that came up they were so eloquent in how they say it so passionate so composed and it was about flexibility, it was about mental health and well-being, it was about inclusion, it was about work-life balance, it was about leadership and it's like

[00:42:40] yeah I can't argue like nobody can argue with any of these things and if these are the demands that they have and ultimately like there's there's loads of research out there that shows that not only are these things better for our own mental health not only

[00:42:59] that they build great workplaces but they ultimately lead to better economic outcomes they also lead to better brain health which means better productivity like this is actually beneficial for the world of work to implement these sorts of standards and I'm like if these

[00:43:21] are the people that are going to lead be our future leaders then that's pretty great. Yeah and as much as I 100% agree with you I think that when I think about what you've shared

[00:43:35] with these young women in Gen Z what they're asking for doesn't just make it like better just for them it makes it better for all of us right like there's nothing wrong with having proactive mental health support and like mental health practice within the workplace

[00:43:51] there's nothing wrong with having good boundaries there's nothing wrong with having good leadership for everyone in the workplace but I always say if the youngest people in our society are shouting it we probably need to take a listen because it's probably the most honest

[00:44:06] unbiased unfiltered truth at this time and so I love that not only does Gen Z have those standards like if people are like their standards are too high I'm like maybe raise your standards like I don't know to tell you besides they're on to something but if

[00:44:23] Gen Z has high standards there's a reason for it and I think it's actually over time going to make us all better because of it so yes well Sophie it has been so wonderful to spend time

[00:44:33] with you and learn a little bit more about what you're doing to help young people have better clarity and feel empowered in going into their career search and their job search and career development. I think it's so important that we continually give back

[00:44:48] in that we're doing great things as older generations can help influence younger generations and what that means not just for good having good empowering careers but as you point out it's just good for the economy it's good for the world. So Sophie thank you so much if people

[00:45:02] want to follow along with the great work that you're doing where can they find you? Obviously on LinkedIn but what are some other places that people might be able to follow along with the great work you're doing? So you can follow Poland Careers on LinkedIn,

[00:45:17] on Instagram and on TikTok. I think for all of them it's just at Polton Careers. Wonderful well Sophie thank you again for being here it has been fantastic to learn with you and be able

[00:45:28] to share some of these insights. Amazing thank you so much Megan. Another thank you to Sophie O'Brien for sharing some important insights on the landscape that Gen Z is navigating when it comes to career development and job searching. While recruiters and hiring organizations

[00:45:47] cannot change the entire industry overnight there are some strategies that can be employed to better attract Gen Z job seekers. First aim for inclusivity in the process this can look like examining screening processes and identifying some practices that might be leading to the

[00:46:02] exclusion of some quality candidates. Second be intentional about providing some sort of feedback to candidates this can provide a human touch that can make a big impact even just a sentence

[00:46:13] or two can help job seekers in their next round of searching. And third once talent is hired be okay with being a pit stop on someone's career journey the days of employees getting a job that

[00:46:24] they're going to do for the entirety of their career are is gone. Some people might be there for a year or two but that time can be critical in the experience and can be an opportunity for organizations to create an ambassador for the future. Sophie also shared

[00:46:39] some strategies that Gen Z job seekers can employ when they're exploring careers. First it's okay to have your career look like a squiggly line in fact most people actually do. And second be intentional about building and fostering your network. LinkedIn is a great place to do this

[00:46:57] LinkedIn's often seen as a place where you can just find jobs or potentially just have a profile and you provide infrequent life updates however there are so many people that are on the site that are ready to cheer you on connect with you share important content and provide

[00:47:12] help in your career journey. So be sure to reach out to people that you might know on LinkedIn or establish connections with people who you might be interested in learning more from.

[00:47:21] So I want to thank you for tuning into this episode whether you are looking to hire a Gen Z-er or you're a Gen Z-er looking for a job I hope you walk away with something that

[00:47:31] you can integrate into your professional life. If you enjoyed this episode please be sure to rate review and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts more episodes are on the way so subscribing is actually the best way to ensure you don't miss episodes when new ones become available.

[00:47:45] And speaking of those new episodes I'm always looking for new topics to explore and guests to have a chat with so if you have a suggestion I now have a pitch form on my website and you can find it at meganmgrace.com

[00:47:59] slash podcast that's m-e-g-h-a-n m-g-r-a-c-e dot com slash podcast this episode was edited by leah kramer the Gen Z-er behind the scenes bringing this podcast to life so thank you again for stopping by let's continue this conversation and we'll chat soon