Episode 89 - Minimum Wage Developments

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome everybody to Comp nd Coffee. I'm Ruth Thomas, Chief Evangelist here at

[00:00:25] Comp nd Coffee, Payscale and the current custodian of the podcast. Well we're recording this at the end of January which is a month that always feels very long and also seems to be a month where there's a lot to get done and get organized for the year. I'm sure if you've been locked away or you're preparing for compensation processes it's been an equally long month.

[00:00:45] There's been quite a lot going on from a legislative perspective this month. It's been a few states talking about pay transparency laws and we did a webinar this week covering that but what we wanted to focus on today was the whole topic of minimum wages and that's because we've seen a number of US states boosting their minimum wage rates this month and with more planned later on this year.

[00:01:08] So we thought that's what we would spend this episode talking about and joining me for this discussion are Vicki Peatman, Director of Product, Lillie Seikli who was Senior Corporate Attorney and Kim Taylor, Vice President of Compensation Services. So welcome ladies to all three of you and I'm looking forward to hearing your perspectives on this topic.

[00:01:29] So let's get going because there's quite a lot to talk about. Can you just introduce yourselves? I'm going to pass the baton to Vicki first. Can you tell me where you're calling from and what's your role here at PayScale?

[00:01:43] Hi Ruth, yeah I'm in not so sunny Edinburgh today. I am Director of Product here at PayScale. At the moment I am covering some of our data products which is quite exciting.

[00:01:57] I'm looking to how to improve them and make sure that they are useful for all of our customers.

[00:02:02] Thank you. Kim, thank you. Hi Ruth, thanks for having me today. I'm calling in from Boston, Massachusetts and in my role as the VP of Compensation Services here at PayScale.

[00:02:13] I work with a team of consultants who help our clients develop and implement their compensation strategies internally.

[00:02:19] Thank you and Lulu. Which I just tell us about yourself and where you're calling from.

[00:02:23] Hi everyone, everyone on this podcast is very jealous that I'm calling in from very sunny but quite cold. Alice Texas.

[00:02:30] I am the senior corporate employment attorney here at PayScale so outside of my role as in house employment advisor to PayScale.

[00:02:37] I work very closely with Ruth and team tracking all things legislation. So we'll be talking about the minimum wage laws on this podcast here shortly.

[00:02:48] Thank you.

[00:02:50] Right so there's quite a lot as I said to cover here. We're many are going to be talking about minimum wages in the US because that's where we've seen these changes taking effect this month.

[00:02:58] But Kim, can you start us off with a bit of background about the whole history of the minimum wage in the US and how it's come about?

[00:03:05] Yeah, absolutely. So the National Federal minimum wage here in the United States was enacted in 1938 and it was designed as a way to help the US recovery from the Great Depression.

[00:03:16] At the time it was 25 cents an hour. And as I mentioned, it was designed to be a tool of shared recovery and introduced for the first time a national floor on wages with the dual aims of both alleviating poverty and boosting the economy by driving consumer spending.

[00:03:31] And by all accounts, it was successful at this.

[00:03:34] Now if you fast forward quite a bit today, we are now in the longest period in history with no federal minimum wage increase.

[00:03:42] There's been no increase since 2009 and we are currently sitting at $7.25 an hour.

[00:03:48] Now when you adjust that for inflation, the federal minimum wage last summer reached its lowest level since 1956.

[00:03:55] This failure to raise the federal minimum wage has been inspiring this fight for $15 campaign, which started in November of 2012, which is proposing that the federal minimum wage be raised to $15 an hour by 2024, which is this year.

[00:04:10] So we've seen then a number of states, Lulu, who have increased their minimum wage flaws and some of them have obviously now gone past that $15 an hour.

[00:04:21] But can you take me through the specific changes that have been effective this month, Lulu?

[00:04:26] So this year, this was the big headline on the minimum wage trend. But this year we're going to see where we've already seen a good chunk of the 25 states and 38 cities and counties who have either already increased their minimum wage as of January 1 or they're going to increase their minimum wage later on in the year.

[00:04:45] So as of January 1, we saw over 9.9 million with an M million workers receive an automatic pay increase.

[00:04:54] So as a reminder, and we get questions like this all the time, what the heck am I supposed to pay my employees? There's a federal minimum wage. There's the state minimum wages I have to comply with.

[00:05:04] They're the city minimum wages.

[00:05:06] The minimum wage that you have to pay is how much you pay that employee in the location which they're working in.

[00:05:13] So as an example, let's say you have hourly workers at Google. Google headquarters is located in Mountain View, California.

[00:05:21] And so you're looking at me and you're saying, Hey Lulu, the federal minimum wage is 725 an hour. California's minimum wage now is $16 an hour.

[00:05:29] But the city of Mountain View, their minimum wage is 1875 an hour. Do I get to pick which wage I pay? No, no, no, no, no, no, you do not get to pick which wage you pay.

[00:05:38] You have to pay the Mountain View minimum wage of $18.75 per hour as an example. So I sit in Dallas, Texas in Texas we don't have a state minimum wage like California like Washington like other states have.

[00:05:52] So if you work in Texas, the minimum wage you have to pay your employees is the federal one which currently like Kim mentioned sits at 725 an hour hasn't budget for quite some time hasn't budget since I you know just graduated college to give everyone kind of an idea what that looks like.

[00:06:08] So because the federal minimum wage hasn't budget in so long, a lot of states, a lot of cities have said hey we're going to raise our own local minimum wages because our cost of living like in the Mountain View, California's of the world have increased so much that folks can't live on 725 an hour anymore.

[00:06:30] So this has garnered a lot of widespread public support across the political party lines here in the US.

[00:06:37] Right and is that federal legislation I mean that's a long time you know for any change is that likely to change anytime soon what's going on kind of on the national stage there.

[00:06:50] We're hoping I mean unfortunately federal minimum wage is a very political sort of idea here i'm going to walk you all through just what's been happening over the past few years just to show you know there have been our lawmakers are thinking about it which is great.

[00:07:04] There just hasn't been a lot of budget unfortunately so in 2019 there was a bill proposed and actually passed in the US House of Representatives to increase the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour.

[00:07:18] So that didn't go anywhere unfortunately I think can mention that already then we saw something in 2021 the Democrats proposed the raise the wage act bill.

[00:07:30] So this bill was proposed to gradually increase the minimum wage to 12 25 an hour by 2025 build and pass a die didn't go anywhere.

[00:07:43] Then we saw in 2023 we saw two new bills both proposed in the United States Senate one on the Democratic side by Senator Bernie Sanders and Senator Scott they propose to raise the federal minimum wage to $17 an hour by 20.

[00:07:59] So that's a five year timeline to get from 725 an hour to $17 an hour we saw another bill proposed by the Republican side of the Senate this was proposed by senators Romney cotton Cassidy Collins Shelley more Capito and Vance and they propose a gradual rate increase to $11 an hour with future increases tied to inflation.

[00:08:27] So I don't think either of those bills are going to go anywhere unfortunately in the next few months as a reminder if y'all are living under a rock there is an election this year pretty big election is here on the US side.

[00:08:39] So what that means is that we may see a change in the United States House of Representatives in terms of who's controlling it same with the United States Senate.

[00:08:46] So depending what happens there either we could see a really luscious great bipartisan bill proposed in pass in 2025 or we could see it being stalled again.

[00:08:55] So we've now got the situation with no federal minimum wage got different states passing different levels of minimum wage if you're in a state that hasn't passed a minimum wage or what should you be doing Lulu should you be paying close attention to to what other states are doing should you be following suit and naturally giving employees higher wages what's your thoughts on that.

[00:09:17] So those of y'all who follow our pay transparency series i'm saying something very similar so no i'm not needed just like take a clip from a prior webinar and plug it into the minimum wage to podcast I promise but it's the same sort of mentality right is that if you are an employer in texas for example you're only obligated to pay.

[00:09:36] 725 an hour which of course has to be annualize if you're paying salary employees to write but if you're really trying to attract and retain workers and the best kind of workers start paying attention to what your competitors are doing potentially in other states if you're working in tech and Austin and you're trying to attract folks for 725 an hour you probably have a pretty easy time doing that right because at Google and Mountain View they're paying 1875 an hour.

[00:10:06] So you have to kind of see what other states are doing what your competitors are doing in the sense of how do I attract and retain the best talent.

[00:10:14] Then we always get the idea of well what about remote workers, how the heck am I supposed to play my employees if they're sitting in all 50 states.

[00:10:21] Well you're going to have to pay your employees the minimum wage of where they're working so if you have employees working in Mountain View California but you're based in Austin Texas.

[00:10:33] You can't pay that Mountain View California employee 725 an hour you got to pay them the 1875 an hour that they're working in Mountain View.

[00:10:41] So and we're also seeing a lot of our customers they're trying to create more consistent practices right so they're saying we have half of our customers saying we're going to pay based on location we have the other half saying we're going to pay regardless of where they live as long as we meet the minimum wage requirements and we're seeing that in terms of their compensation philosophy and practices that.

[00:11:00] Paying one level base as long as it complies with you know the highest minimum wage that they have to comply with seems to be a great strategy for them.

[00:11:09] Yeah i'm going to share some CBPR data later which talks to that to that point now we had another interesting I never so many questions technical questions about the minimum wage but I think one question that we saw come in this week Vicki from a customer was.

[00:11:22] The impact of minimum wages on market rates and on for example our pay data here that we supply at pay scale can we see the impact for example of like these minimum wage increases in our data yes we can it does take a little water.

[00:11:40] To flow through to the market data so if you can imagine like our peer products then the companies are updating their data on a hopefully on a monthly basis which means that after they pay that January we would get that data but it doesn't come in till 90 days after due to the guidelines and so.

[00:12:00] You won't see it but we do see it in the data obviously the thing with a third party surveys which are the traditional surveys you might see them but on an annual basis obviously because they're putting in but it is the it is their HRS data that they're putting feeding through so it will come through.

[00:12:18] I think the other thing to consider Lutys Point was really really correct is that some companies are deciding to pay across the board so if they're a company who's like i've got we've going to have a minimum wage for ourselves then they're going to pay in Texas the same as they pay in California and so you will see.

[00:12:37] That pushing up rates in states that you don't have the impact so when we're kind of looking we might be like hold on why is it Texas is also rising at this you know California is maybe rising but that's what we're seeing is the impact the other thing that's quite interesting is that.

[00:12:55] There's a lot of companies that pay national level or they pay a differential off the national rate and so again if you're doing kind of the average or the median across all of the data for all the states then you're going to pick those increases of minimum wage across the different states up into the national rate and then you're going to feed it through into so.

[00:13:16] You definitely see it in the data but it's not kind of as obvious and there's an end that was pretty black.

[00:13:23] It's interesting that point though about if companies adopt this consistently as best practice across the locations which they operate that may be another trend where we see you know we talk this talk about moving to national weight across the board and that maybe another factor that could be influencing that.

[00:13:40] Yeah I mean with all these different things right we're going to have all the pay or legislation things you got the minimum wages and they're all different of course I mean if you particularly you've got remote work as all you've got lots of different sides it's too complicated to deal with like all of the different try to kind of.

[00:13:53] You know so actually coming to a sort of persistent philosophy and trying to work that makes it so much more simple and easy to explain and transparent yeah.

[00:14:03] So we've been talking about the minimum wage let's mention the living wage how does that factor in here now you and I in the UK are more familiar with the term the living wage because it's a bit more prevalent in terms of adoption here.

[00:14:15] Vicki can you just kind of give me an explanation of the difference between those two terms.

[00:14:19] Yeah so the minimum wage is usually the required rate that is provided by the legislation wherever you are where the living wage is a rate that's calculated that will allow a worker or household to afford its basic needs such as housing food healthcare transportation and it's calculated by different groups in different places around the world.

[00:14:43] In the US there's a living wage calculated that's used by the MIT calculated by the MIT which is actually quite a good one and for example if you look at Washington DC which has got the highest minimum wage it's $17 is their minimum wage in Washington DC that's about 60% of what an individual in a household with two adults who are working and two children would need to earn to make a meet their basic family needs so.

[00:15:10] So you can see that the minimum wage is high but it's not going to meet the living wage within the US there's no concrete some varies depending on whether or not you the number of people in your household and the number of people working in your household.

[00:15:28] The UK as you say it's slightly different in that they work it out this sort of average it out and they provide one number for the UK as a whole and another number for London specifically with each of these voluntary amounts so it's not enforced by legislation.

[00:15:43] In terms of how many people take it up in the US it's not a huge number I couldn't actually find that many companies that declare that they're a living wage employer.

[00:15:55] The UK there are 14,000 businesses that declare they're a living wage employer within the US companies like Costco are actually terming by others as living wage employers but they use the phrase we pay fair wages on their website so the company just they do a there's an organization called just which has a framework for ESG and they look at the different companies and they say determine which companies kind of a living wage.

[00:16:24] They're living wage employers and they've got sort of four five that they can say but financial services often they're paying it but they're kind of paying it anyway I think it's the company that matters for the ones where they're at the minimum wage level.

[00:16:40] Yeah okay thank you thanks for explaining that difference.

[00:16:43] Okay so let's go back to the minimum wage Kim and what are the benefits to businesses of paying these higher and higher than federal minimum wages.

[00:16:52] So one of the key arguments for raising the federal minimum wage perkins back to the reason that the federal minimum wage was created in the first place and that's the logic that it is good not only for the employees that are being paid but for the businesses themselves.

[00:17:08] Our employees are ultimately consumers and here in the US about 70% of our economy it is consumer driven so the reasoning there is that if you put more money in people's pockets they're going to have more money to go out and then spend in turn.

[00:17:21] There's also an argument that employees who are going to be more satisfied with a higher rate of pay and that will boost engagement retention innovation and productivity.

[00:17:30] And then lastly we do see that lower pay is tied to high employee turnover and we know that employee turnover has an impact on the businesses costs in the form of recruitment cost, retention costs, loss productivity costs.

[00:17:45] And so one of the third arguments around raising the minimum wage is that the morale increase that a drives is going to help boost productivity retention and innovation once again.

[00:17:55] Right so lots of good reasons for considering doing this there's a broader ESG angle here too Vicki I know you and I have looked at this before how would you describe how increasing the minimum wage would be a good thing to do as part of your environmental social and governance policy.

[00:18:11] Yes, so this is part of the S the social pillar and it's all about people basically sort about how how you look after your workers your people who work for you and there's lots of different elements and we've talked about it before pay actually obviously comes into that to.

[00:18:28] The issue that a lot of companies have with the ESG in particular is how do you kind of put a value on things like you say or will we're very caring about our well being of our employees you know that's really quite hard to kind of.

[00:18:41] Have any kind of put a number to it and quantify it and so actually minimum wage or living wage is away in which you can actually quantify like what is the difference between the minimum wage floor and what we're paying which is what we're kind of almost like this is what we care how much we care about our employees so that's I think.

[00:19:02] Like where it fits in obviously as well as that it generates that kind of social impacts that can was just talking about it shows that you're good business is putting money into people's pockets and so it sends out a kind of strong message that you're with you care in your responsible business.

[00:19:22] So it's interesting no because we're quite often if people are proactively trying to activate their ESG policy often struggle to find decent metrics underneath that social pillar so it's worth thinking about it in terms of a metric to show how you are that you're doing something and having an impact.

[00:19:38] So the other thing I hear a lot about and been sort of in some of the leadership sessions I've been working on is okay this is all great you know we know it's good for business but at the same time we're in a certain period of economic volatility and this essentially equates to increasing costs in our business and concern over how do we afford that as a business particularly with this you know the number of legislations coming through that you've been telling us about.

[00:20:07] And I think you know normally the discussion is around well this kind of a number of options you're either going to increase this out of profits you're going to potentially pass the increased cost on to consumers through higher prices or potentially you're going to seek to reduce costs elsewhere in the business for example doing job cuts so those are the three kind of options that I've heard talked about in the UK we do have some government data on this and it shows that in the last two years.

[00:20:37] The frequency has really been price pass through so businesses have really been increasing prices as a way to cover these minimum wage costs not a surprise in the context of the broad based increases that we've seen and the rising inflation that we've had but as that pivots and hopefully you know going into 2024 and beyond we will start to see cost living going down inflation going down it may be you know more difficult to actually pass that on.

[00:21:07] To the customers for larger businesses they have often more generous profit margins I guess so you could consider this is the price of conducting socially responsible business under the ESG kind of umbrella and then for smaller businesses it can obviously be more of a challenge because it may not be as affordable.

[00:21:26] The key there's some research out there I think around how the minimum wage actually impacts inflation can you share some of the insights that you got on that.

[00:21:36] Yeah so it is quite interesting because that's the immediate assumption is that you're going to increase pay and it fees through to inflation and obviously in the 70s use all the wage price spiral and everyone kind of got crazy and so question is whether or not that actually kind of born out and there's quite a lot of research out there about this and generally the consensus is that it has a minimal impact on how companies price their goods.

[00:22:04] And therefore does not materially cause inflation now at the moment we've got that kind of tricky situation with the prices are already increasing because you know energy prices have increased and other.

[00:22:17] Issues and so they've already cutting that to the profits in like can they also do it this is it going to be the same this in this year as it has been in the past like obviously we don't know that UK government assessment for this year this is UK.

[00:22:32] If firms pass on 100% of the cost which is improbable then it would have a very small impact on overall inflation increasing it by up to 0.3 percentage points and obviously that's because you're talking about a smaller group of people you know the rest of the pay might not be actually impacted this is only the pay of the minimum actual the minimum wage we're not talking about all the differentials and all the things other impacts and so but I do want to just say that one of the things.

[00:23:00] The research is also shown is that it doesn't relate to job cuts as well one of these are.

[00:23:07] Ask all that we were having a look at anyone that said it doesn't kill jobs but it kills job vacancies because it decreases turnover and so actually supposed to be a good thing for business and therefore because it obviously the cost of hiring is way more than the cost of retention and so you know actually it might not end up being.

[00:23:26] In fact you're total costs of your pay depending on the obviously the price increase the minimum wage increase and there's also downstream benefit family income is highly correlated with mental and physical health child development and school achievement civic engagement and many other dimensions of individual and social well being and so there's a lot of things that it does seem to have a benefit for but the pinch is at that point when you have to suddenly increase.

[00:23:52] So I think if you're in the position as a HR practitioner or a competition and your business leaders are saying you know we can't afford this just spend some time kind of thinking about the broader issues here and some of the things that we've been discussing.

[00:24:04] But there's a very practical compensation problem that often occurs as a result of minimum wages came and I'm going to come back to you to talk about this and that is pay compression so as employees at the lower end of the way spectrum get pay heights and this can bring them closer to employees in grades above them.

[00:24:21] We have paid compression obviously during the great resignation with you guys coming in. Is this going to be a big problem are you talking about it with customers and how do we solve that problem came.

[00:24:32] Yeah absolutely this is a huge issue and one that we hear a lot about from our clients we were working through minimum wage increases you have a risk of compression anytime the growth in a market rate outpaces what you're increasing your internal employees salaries at.

[00:24:48] And when you look at minimum wage increases they do typically exceed salary growth inside of an organization so I'm going to use a little example close to home as an example of that in 2023 here in Massachusetts increased the statewide minimum wage to $15 an hour prior to that increase it was 1425.

[00:25:07] And if you do that math it's just a tick over 5% increase those of us in compensation know that annual salary increased budgets are generally in the 3% range or so.

[00:25:17] So you can see that there's about a 2% point delta difference between the minimum wage increase and everyone else is increases.

[00:25:25] And that of course is going to be exacerbated when you have multiple minimum wage increases over the course of several years which you do often see.

[00:25:33] And so of course you can't afford to give everyone a 5% increase if he did that would be a fantastic way to solve the compression issue but that's just not feasible.

[00:25:42] And so over time we see that the employees at that minimum wage tend to creep up alongside the rates that are being paid to people who are maybe more tinier or perhaps even their supervisors.

[00:25:53] And so the way that we typically recommend tackling this is first reevaluate all your jobs that are at the minimum wage or kind of minimum wage adjacent to make sure that you're paying them the actual market rate and they're in a grade that reflects what the actual market value of those positions are.

[00:26:09] You might have to reclassify some of them as a result of these minimum wage increases.

[00:26:14] You might need to think about whether or not you can add some value to the jobs to justify a slightly higher pay wage I guess than what you've been paying currently.

[00:26:24] You know, look for any areas where you can introduce an operational efficiency or develop some knowledge skill or ability to better justify that increase in wage for these employees.

[00:26:36] And then from a practical perspective, I look to I guess incrementally decrease those increases as you move up the organization so back to that Massachusetts example if your Massachusetts minimum wage employees are seeing a 5% year over year increase maybe the next level up sees a 4.5% increase and then a 4% and then a 3.5 increase and decrease it as you go up your organizations hierarchy.

[00:27:02] So by the time you get up a few levels, you're back around the normal salary growth that you would expect to see.

[00:27:09] And then one nice thing that I just want to call out is that generally these minimum wage increases are legislated fairly well in advance.

[00:27:17] So most companies do have a little bit of advanced knowledge that something is coming I like to tell my clients, plan it out as much as possible maybe even model out what your structure might look like next year, two years from now, three years from now knowing what you do about how

[00:27:31] the increases are going to roll out just to get ahead of it and be on top of any changes that might be forthcoming.

[00:27:38] Right, thank you. Well lots of lots of good tips then does remind me I know in the UK we've seen particularly within the retail sector which is one of those that are more impacted often by minimum wage rates is we've seen allocation of pay budgets has been more towards staff or employees at the lower end of the wage spectrum and potentially executives.

[00:27:59] I mean, I know for a couple of years and executives in some of the firms weren't getting any increases and they were just putting the salary budget down to that lower end of the wage spectrum in order to map work through some of these the changes that are happening there.

[00:28:11] So lots to think about with minimum wages.

[00:28:14] I'm currently working with my team on the new compensation best practice report data we're busy reading that in the background, but just to give you a quick sneak peak according to the latest data which will be releasing in March 27% of organizations say that their

[00:28:31] strategy will be impacted by the minimum wage increases that Lulu was telling us about but then there's still a significant portion who aren't worried about the effect of rising minimum wages on their

[00:28:42] comp strategy and that's because either they don't employ minimum wage employees or because their floor wage is above the minimum wage so that's probably Lulu going back to your point around, you know, the best practice perspective.

[00:28:55] So 36% of respondents we have 5000 respondents or 5700 responded. Sorry, should be the number absolutely correct to this year CBPR 36% of those said their floor wage was above the minimum wage.

[00:29:09] So I always like to call out that best practice anything else anybody wants to chime in here on minimum wage before we close out any more thoughts or tips.

[00:29:19] What about we talked about wealth equality, that was one thing we were going to talk about.

[00:29:23] Go away without me mentioning a little bit about wealth inequality.

[00:29:27] I think one of the things that minimum wage is actually you know you'd hope with impact as well in equality because if you're particularly if you're one of those companies that is increasing the lower levels higher and higher rates than the higher levels in your organization then you would be a company where you'd see or maybe your CEO per ratio's decreased, which would be great and in line with trying to reduce inequality.

[00:29:52] Overall though we're not seeing that minimum wage is actually impacting wealth inequality in the US and mainly that's because what we're talking about is income, whereas wealth also includes real estate shares like all dividend, all the things and so actually at the upper levels the wealthiest they're increasing faster and it's usually because of other things rather than income.

[00:30:17] And so whereas you might see the income levels getting closer together, then wealth unfortunately is not as hugely impacted but you know there's still time.

[00:30:26] And if they're a pay scale customer Kim can they come to you and the services team for help if they need to absolutely we love tackling these questions it's a complex issue when it's funded to puzzle apart.

[00:30:37] And then Lule we will be aiming to keep pace guys customers up to date with these legislation changes I don't think we've got this stuff on our pay ledge page at the moment do we know we don't but that is a goal for this year is to get some sort of chart showing each states at least on the state level the city's I think it's going to be too cumbersome or burdensome so my goal is to have some sort of chart on the landing page of minimal wage by state for the next three years so from 2020.

[00:31:07] 24 through 2026 so I'll be working closely with Vicki and her team on making sure that happens so stay tuned.

[00:31:13] We do have pay factors then there was already a map in pay factors that has all that information and some of the upcoming legislation as well which is quite she's quite cool within the data insights.

[00:31:23] Right thanks for pointing that out well that was quite a lot we covered here today there is a pay scale minimum wage report underneath our research and insight section on pay scale.com as well that was written last year covers a lot of kind of the background their history that we've talked about the four of us here today and we'll probably be updating that again this year it's a report that we update regularly that's a set the pay scale minimum wage report you can find underneath research insights.

[00:31:53] So what do you think do you have any more questions about minimum wage that we have an answer today if you do then let us know and if you think there's something we've missed or there's another topic that you'd like to ask to talk about then let us know also thank you very much Lulu Kim and Vicki for joining me today to talk about this thank you very much everybody.

[00:32:13] Thank you thank you.

[00:32:15] Thanks so much.

[00:32:23] Music